Episode 12: Fighting for Truth and The American Dream | Lisa Ledezma | Loan Officer & Advocate

May 8

Lisa Ledezma’s life looked like the American dream. A home, a career helping families secure theirs, and a busy life as a mom and soccer coach. But in 2001, everything changed when she was accused of mortgage fraud. What followed was years of legal battles, personal loss, and rebuilding her life from the ground up. Lisa opens up about what it’s like to be swept up in the financial crisis, why she never stopped fighting for her truth, and how she’s using her voice to help others understand financial literacy, homeownership, and resilience. This is a story about grit, advocacy, and holding onto your foundation when everything is shaking.

“I was a woman ready to fight. I was battling for my kids, my husband, my home. Because I knew that I knew my job. I spent 10 years prior to that studying what FHA stood for. All I’ve been doing is helping people build their homes, I’m not here to break people’s homes down. I’m a builder. I’m a person who believes in a strong foundation. My word is who I am.”

— Lisa Ledezma

Mortgage Lender
San Bernardino County
Riverside Coun ty
Moreno Val ley
Pe rris
B e aumont
In land Empire
Gym nastics
Ba nk Teller
Ri verside County Public Health Department
Wally Foundation
Melody
Finan cial Lite racy
Loan
Mortga g e
Budge t
Savings
Women, Wisdom and Wealth
CFO
Chief Female Officer
CEO
Lisaledezma.com
Seventee n Magazine
Mari ah Carey
Whitney Houston
Dulles Inte rnationa l Airpor t
Virginia
Was hington D.C.
Mo rtgage Frau d
Suburban
Rea l Estate Compa ny
Es crow Company
The Big Shor t Movie
RE O Accounts
Neg-Am Lo ans
Fixe d Loans
Adjustable R ate Loan
Cuba
S ocial Me dia
Keep ing Up w ith the Jonese s
Hispanic
T he FEDs
Am erican H ome Mo rtgage
In dymac Ban k
Bad Credit
Subprime
Equ ity
Foreclose
Metr o City Bank
C riminal Indic tment
The America n Dream
Pro spect Ban k
Commiss i on Brack et
NMLS License
DBO License
Acq uitted
Depo sition
Subpoena
Mediator
Ass istant DA
L os Angeles
EDD - Emplo yment Developme nt Dep artment
W e lls Fargo
Beachwood Realty
Settle
Public Defender
HUD
211 Riverside
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 Lisa’s early years and path into lending
02:15 Becoming a mortgage lender in the Inland Empire
04:30 The joy of helping families buy their first homes
06:45 How the financial crisis changed everything
09:10 The day she was accused of mortgage fraud
11:20 Understanding the charges and the legal process
14:00 Fighting for her truth and reputation
17:15 The personal cost of a public legal battle
20:05 Lessons from being in courtrooms for years
22:40 Rebuilding life after acquittal
25:00 Why financial literacy matters more than ever
27:15 Common home loan mistakes and how to avoid them
30:00 How the housing market impacts working families
32:10 Advocating for the Latino community in real estate
34:20 Finding strength in sports, family, and community
I was a woman ready to fight. I was battling for my kids and my husband and my home because I knew that I knew my job. I spent 10 years prior to that studying what FHA stood for, and all I've been doing is helping people build their homes. I'm not here to break people's homes down. I'm a builder. I'm a person that believes in a strong foundation, and my word is it's who
I am.
That's Lisa Ledezma and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans. The awesome, the up to something and the extraordinary to come and share their story. These are people that inspire me and remind me that everything is possible. I hope that you will be left entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Lisa Ledezma is your average American woman. She's a divorced mom of three. She lives in suburbia. She's a soccer coach and has a career as a loan officer. She spent decades working to help the Latino population in her communities have financial literacy by a home and have the American dream. Then one day she was accused of mortgage fraud.
On this episode, she shares for the first time her story of being swept up in the financial crisis, how it's impacted her life and what she's learned as a result. All of that's coming up, but first, we've been getting such great feedback about the I Am a Powerful Lady T-shirt that people have been asking where you can get them great news.
You can get them at the Powerful Lady Store. The powerful ladies.com, click shop, and they're on sale right now. We get 15% off if you provide your email address to join our awesome newsletter, and we're also coming out very soon with kids versions and ones for men as well, who's listening right now that is committed to living a healthier, more fit life.
All of you? I thought so. I, I could hear you all raise your hands as you're listening. Great news, powerful Ladies has partnered with Primal Kitchen to give you 10% off whatever you order. All of their products tend to be gluten-free, uh, process free. They're healthy, they're delicious. They are the foundations.
Things like avocado, mayo, avocado oil, salad dressings, all the things that are going to make your healthy lifestyle taste delicious. It's all in the details. Go to primal kitchen.com, use code powerful ladies, and get 10% off every order. You are welcome.
Hi Lisa. Hi. Thank you for coming all the way here on this hurricane of a day. Thank you for inviting me and I'm excited. Yeah, of course. Yeah, this is great. So let's start by, um, telling the audience a little bit about your. All right. Well, uh, my
name is Lisa Ledezma and, uh, I've been a mortgage lender for about 18 years now.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, serving the Inland Empire, Riverside County, San Bernardino County. Um, really dedicated to that area, which is a lower moderate income area of, uh, Marino Valley. Mm-hmm. Paris Banning Beaumont, just really centralized, um, in Riverside itself as a city.
Awesome. Yeah. Uh, in addition to doing that, you are a mother.
And an avid soccer player yourself plus a coach. Yeah. I used to be
more of an athlete. I wouldn't call myself a soccer player. Yeah. But I definitely jumped in on that one for a little bit. That was fun. Because you were doing gymnastics for a long time, right? Yeah, really long time. It started when I was four.
Mm-hmm. Uh, ended when I was probably 21 'cause I had to quit. Yeah.
So, yeah. You aged out of gymnastics. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely aged out. It was a great, great time. How, how did you end up in the mortgage market?
Uh, just truly fell in my lap. Mm-hmm. Uh, started as a banker and, uh, working as a teller.
Mm-hmm.
And worked my way through positions and opportunities and spent many years going different paths in that industry.
How important is that to you, that people have financial literacy and, you know, know what's in a loan and know what's in a mortgage and like, there's so many more components to it, right? Like, where's your savings at? Are you on a budget? Um. So how important is that stuff to you? Um, it's my
entire life.
Mm-hmm. It's, it's all of our lives. We have a foundation that matters. And it wasn't until I've experienced a lot of different walks in this industry that made me realize that this was never a job for me. Mm-hmm. This was my career from day one. It was a dream I had when I was 16. Walked into a friend of mine's, um, workplace, and, uh, she, and actually she really wasn't a friend, she was a family member.
She worked for her bank.
Mm-hmm.
And she invited me over to her house for the weekend and I went into their office and she says, we'll be right back. Hang out here. It turns out it was a mortgage bank. And I said one day I was like, I'm gonna do something like this. Years later I found myself doing the exact same thing.
Mm-hmm. In a different way, in a different community and area.
I know it's, especially as we've been watching what's been going on with the federal workers and it's, to me, it's so heartbreaking that they aren't able to live without one paycheck. And I don't want anyone to ever feel that way. So it's been an awakening to me to come look back at financial literacy and how important it is and what that means to people.
And I honestly, I wish it was something people taught in school more.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I'm learning now that home ec isn't even something that's important in school anymore and um, I'm. Trying to set off and launch off my women wisdom and wealth, because I think it's important that women are raising themselves to be educated to be more than just a mom or a wife, but to consider themselves a CFO of their home.
Mm-hmm.
Um, except instead, a chief financial officer, more like chief female officer of their home to what could be their future spouse partner mm-hmm. As a CEO to their home.
Mm-hmm.
And understanding the roles in that. And there's a lot of components to being a chief executive officer, and there's a lot of components to being a chief financial officer.
Mm-hmm.
Most people only know that the way of doing that is through college.
Yeah.
But when you are a young mom, you don't have a way to pay for college. There's other avenues that need to come around on how to be a wife. Mm-hmm. To be trained how to be a woman, a mother. And the only way of doing that is.
You know, um, just awareness. Mm-hmm. Talking to women along the line and saying, Hey, what did you do? And being open to different avenues and different perspectives, and then making the right decision morally for yourself in your own home and not trying to copycat an original.
Yep.
You know,
and, and you mentioned your, uh, women Wisdom and Wealth program.
Can you talk more about that? Like what is that, what does it look like for somebody who wants to participate? Women
Wisdom and Wealth is simply a bunch of courses that I've placed together and trying to start, start a nonprofit, um, so that we can provide courses for young adults, young mothers coming out of high school, maybe even seniors in high school
mm-hmm.
That are determining, do I, do I get involved in a relationship? Do I go to college? Do I leave my home? Mm-hmm. Did my mom do it right? Did my dad do it right? Do we even have parents that are doing anything to help our young ladies see how to financially be. A good partner mm-hmm. To their future partner.
Yep.
You know, so yeah. Women wisdom, men wealth is definitely something I'm trying to launch off.
Mm-hmm.
And it has been kind of put on the back burner because I've got these projects and my main project has been being a mom
Yeah.
And being an executive to my own home. Mm-hmm. For that matter. Yeah.
And helping young mothers matter so much to you because of your own experience, I'm assuming?
Um, it matters to me
because. I lived it. Yeah. At the age of 22, I bought my first house. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was definitely the best way to show my daughter. There's no option.
Yeah.
But to set your foundation very solid.
Mm-hmm.
On my website you'll see which, uh, my website is lisa ledezma.com. It's a little bit of a story of how I started my life mm-hmm.
In the mortgage industry and why it was important for me to own a home
Yeah.
Regardless of whether I was married or not. Mm-hmm. It wasn't about that for me. Mm-hmm. It was about teaching my kids that regardless of what you're dish, you focus on yourself. You, you do the right thing, and you set yourself up so that you're not dependent on life and hoping that the world's going to give you something back because you're there.
Yeah. And, and I think it's a, it's a big decision to make. When you were 21, 22. Mm-hmm. When you bought your first house.
Yeah. 20. Yeah. I was 22 and I decided I was gonna make that move.
Yeah. So you're 22, single mom, and you're like, okay. A house is next, I can do this. Yeah. There was no other option for me.
Mm-hmm. Because renting seemed very expensive. Just in general. I'm like, I'm not gonna waste money. Mm-hmm. At 22. Yeah. Because I realized the tax benefit that I can get at the end of the year that I can put in towards something. Mm-hmm. You know, by the time I was 24 years old, I received a check that paid for the next 10 years of my life.
Mm-hmm.
And I made good decisions with that. That led to other decisions and later on it brings up the topic as to why we're even here. Yeah. You know, but it wasn't to say it was unsuccessful, it was an experience that was brought me down to. Experience.
Yeah.
Changed my life.
Well, and I think that's a great segue.
'cause there, um, you know, we've had a lot of podcasts where we've talked about the woman and what they've achieved and where they're going, and kinda what's next. Um, I thought it was great that you wanted to start with a pretty specific topic and moment in your life that was defining for you. Mm-hmm. So I'll, so let's start at the beginning and go through that.
All
right. So, uh, it was a. Really interesting day. It was, uh, June 18th in 2011, I was landing at the airport in Dallas, Washington. Is that right? Mm-hmm. I think it's, it wasn't in Virginia. Yep. So it's D Washington. And I had, my gosh, I had my, probably my 7-year-old. Yep. My 5-year-old, my sick 4-year-old.
Mm-hmm.
And my 3-year-old. So when they were coming out of the terminal, the, I was pulling the, the car seat out of the, the luggage terminal. When I get a phone call from, you know, at the time, my husband and he says, we've got a problem. And I go, what's the problem? And he says, you were in the newspaper today and you were just criminally, um, accused of three counts of mortgage fraud.
And I'm like, what? Yeah. Like, that's right. And I'm, I'm carrying a stroller. Yeah. A car seat and a bag. Right. And three kids running around at the airport at Dallas and I was by myself.
Mm-hmm.
And he's in California and I'm freaking out. 'cause at this point in my life, I was closing about a hundred units a year.
Mm-hmm. And properties with clients. Mm-hmm. And my name is not, I'm not famous, I'm not popular, I'm just an originator. I help do home loans. Yep. And I, six months prior, I had received a little award at the office that I kept my office open that year during a hard crash.
Mm-hmm.
And. They were thankful that I was an employee there mm-hmm.
At this bank, because had I not closed what I closed for that branch, they wouldn't have been able to keep their office open.
Yeah.
So I was like almost considered a small little employee that did well that year. Yeah. And the next thing I know, I get hit with a, an article in the newspaper that said that I was a, I was responsible for mortgage fraud, and that was the last thing I ever would've thought.
Mm-hmm.
I've ever done, because. I've repetitively done the same thing in making sure I looked at everything tooth combed through everything. Mm-hmm. Made sure I didn't put a family in a bad position.
Yeah. Because you care about them first. Like you're not
Yeah. Their foundation matters. Mm-hmm. I could not imagine ever having to pick up my kids and moving out of a home that I just moved into and spent all my money in.
Mm-hmm.
Because I couldn't afford it. And the person who gave me the loan didn't even look at my stuff properly. Yeah. And she defrauded me in a system that I knew nothing about. So at that very moment when I was getting off of the terminal, I was waiting for my uncle who picked us up, the three of the kids and my, and myself.
And I'm, I remember the feeling of saying, I just got accused of three counts of mortgage fraud. And he looked at me, he was like, what? And I remember the feeling in the back, you know, they got three babies in the backseat of his suburban mm-hmm. Driving in an odd place in Virginia and. I'm like, this can't be real.
Right. So by the time we got to his house, I go to visit, you know, just visiting my family for the, for the summer and we're going for the week with the kids. Mm-hmm. And my grandma's there. And so of course I'm not trying to be nervous, right. 'cause I'm looking back. At the time we had already my, uh, again, we had opened a real estate company.
Mm-hmm.
So we were neck deep with opening a real estate company, an escrow company. I was 26 when I opened my first real estate company with my ex-husband.
Mm-hmm.
And at the time, and, you know, then we decided to merge out of that real estate company and do our own thing. Mm-hmm. And I was given an opportunity from the same bank that was outta business at this point that I was being accused for, of mortgage fraud.
They had given me the money to open my real estate company. So when you go back into the history of all this story
mm-hmm.
You see the, the, the issues that the government was going through in this re transition of mortgage fraud. And there's a movie about it. You know, I can't even watch the movie 'cause it was just so difficult to live it.
Mm-hmm. I still haven't seen that movie, that mortgage movie that everyone talks about, that talks about the crash and how it was all Oh yeah. The big short. It's really good and I couldn't see it.
Mm-hmm. Because
it was just right here, it was in my throat.
Yeah.
And it was a different experience than what everybody talked about.
So, so, um, there's a lot in there. So I just wanna like get clarity for the listeners. Sorry. No, no. I mean, when it's real and it's coming out, like it all starts going. So, um, you and your husband had started your own real estate company. Your own mortgage company?
No, no. It was definitely just an escrow and real estate.
Okay. It was supposed to be like six of us.
Yep.
And it blew up in 2008, we decided to win in a good
way.
Great way.
Yeah.
Um, in 2007, everyone told us not to invest in buying anything. No property, no company. And we went the other way and we're like, we're gonna do this. Mm-hmm. We believed in what we had.
Yeah.
And so we invested whatever we had left in our savings account.
Mm-hmm. I
got a bonus that year, so I invested it in that gave it all to the situation. Mm-hmm. I was a wife. I'm like, it's all ours. Let's do it. Yeah. Um, that was in oh eight. So we were killing it. Mm-hmm. It was shortly after the market started crashing.
Um, I started working for a company in oh eight that gave us REO accounts so that I can provide those accounts to real estate agents in our office.
And what does that mean?
So real estate owned property Okay. Accounts. So any foreclosures that were going through the stated income process, the foreclosed
mm-hmm.
Maybe loans that were not done, right.
Mm-hmm.
Um, at that time, I was very comfortable with providing, um, those accounts to real estate agents. Yep. Because I was certain that during the stated income loan process mm-hmm. I didn't do neg a loans. I was very serious about making sure I did fixed loans for my clients.
Yep. I was making sure that if, if somebody wanted an adjustable rate loan, they explained to me why they were investing on an investment property and why they would do an. A, an arm loan, which is what you, an arm loan is an adjustable rate mortgage loan. And so if you didn't ask me for that mm-hmm. You were getting a fixed rate because you were learning how to invest in a very large property.
Yeah. Or you were learning a debt for, if you will,
and, and for, and so everyone has clarity too. The reason that fixed is a smarter choice than an arm is because fixed, it's the same rate all the time. You know what you're getting, you can plan for it. It's, it's a slower process potentially, or maybe more upfront, but it's consistent.
Yeah. Whereas an arm, the market can change Fluctuate. Yeah. And there's no rhyme or reason suddenly you're going from, oh, I had a. I'm making up a number, 7% interest, and tomorrow I have 24%. Right.
It adjusts annually. Mm-hmm. And so you can't really properly as a, maybe a gardener who makes a $30,000 income a year, he's not gonna make $50,000 miraculously the following year, but his bills are still gonna stay the same to shock him with a mortgage payment that changes because of the margins.
Mm-hmm. Is, it's just not fair. Yeah. You know, there's, there's a very huge class of people that just are gonna make the same fixed income mm-hmm. For the rest of their life.
Yep.
Regardless of factory workers. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, my family, we, we came to this country and I'm the first generation born in my family here in this country.
Yeah.
And my grandparents and my parents. Did not make a, a, a strong income every month. Mm-hmm. But we, we cleared the, the map on savings.
Yep.
You know, we ended up with seven properties mm-hmm.
When
he passed away, he mean, um, my grandfather mm-hmm. Um, you know, blue collar man
Yep.
And hard worker. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I've personally started at that point in oh seven, I started following the market and analyzing the market since nine September, 1968.
Mm-hmm. Because that's when we first landed here from Cuba.
Yep.
And he taught me how important it was to have everything on contract. Yeah. Fixed, organized in order. Mm-hmm. Because he never knew if he was gonna get a raise.
Yeah.
He just knew that he worked hard and if he did something right, he may get a little pay raise, maybe 40 cents.
Mm-hmm. But that wasn't gonna change. So fixed was something important for him.
And, and I think that's a great example of people always think that. I can have a savings account or an IRA or a house once I make more money. Like you're always chasing, like you need more to have those things. And he's a great example of like, you don't, like, you don't, if if you use the budget that you have at your disposal and you're diligent with it, you can have seven properties, you can have a savings account.
Mm-hmm. Like you can have other things, but so many people don't wanna live within their means and it's hard. They wanna live above their means. Yes. And, and I think there's also, back to your social media comment earlier, there's so many people who you see what everyone else has or looks like they have.
So if you compare what you needed to have a standard quality of life even 20 years ago, it's so different. Like you, you know, you have to have a laptop, have to have a cell phone, have to have a car, have to have like blah, blah, blah. It keeps going and. I've really enjoyed in the past couple of years really reevaluating that and deciding like, do I need it?
Hold on. Right. Like, because I would rather have whatever my version of the seven properties looks like down the road than a. The keeping up with the Jones is that, it's so crazy. Yeah. When you spin into the social media black hole,
I, you know, for what it's worth, I had no idea my family even had money.
Mm-hmm.
My, my and, and you. And when you talk to my family, they will never say that we were wealthy or well off. We were hardworking. I mean, yeah. I remember being a little girl and my grandfather had a, you know, the bucket of um, you know, laundry detergent in the shower and so whatever fall over water would come into the water.
He would use that bucket. Go. Water, the plants.
Mm-hmm.
Right. He would use that as a way of saving money. When I started doing finances and my grandparent or my grandma who was, you know, really in charge of that, my dad, they started to depend on what I've learned at that point. Mm-hmm. And respectfully asked me to look over their stuff.
I'm like, are you guys joking? We were, we have this as a family and I was very proud Yeah. As a minority, um, as a Hispanic.
Mm-hmm.
I was proud as a, a young daughter. Mm-hmm. I was the first daughter in this, in my family, um, third in this country because I, my grandma and grandpa only had two kids. Mm-hmm. So there was a lot that we weren't taught mm-hmm.
That we figured out because of the mistakes that we made from our generations. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I, I was, I was very sure of myself till I got that letter. Yeah. Or that phone call that I wasn't too sure of myself all of a sudden. And I'm like, wait, wait. I didn't do anything wrong.
Mm-hmm. Of
course, everyone always says I'm innocent.
Mm-hmm.
But I had to come to a, a very big accountability of myself and say, could I have done something wrong?
Yeah.
Whether you knew it or not, whether I knew it or not, because everybody kept saying the, the feds do not make a mistake. Mm-hmm. Lisa, if you're getting accused of mortgage fraud, you better find yourself a good attorney.
And I'm like, who's getting sued here?
Mm-hmm.
So when I read the article, you know, um, and we can pull it up, it's, you can Google my name it. Mm-hmm. The article strictly says, you know, that you know this mom and pop place, mom and pop shop, real estate company. And it specifically had my name on there, and it was real, it was like a real struggle.
I was accused of something that I wasn't sure I did or didn't do. So it was, like I said, it's June. Mm-hmm. Kids just got outta school. Mm-hmm. Well, one of them did and we're on vacation and I, my hands are tied. You know, my hands are super tied. None of that made sense to me. It actually looks back and I'm like, I feel like it was a dream, but it wasn't a nightmare.
It was just, am I really going through this? Yeah. You know, what are you guys talking about? That was at like two o'clock in the afternoon and on the east coast. Mm-hmm. So the, the article had came out that morning. Yeah. From the press Enterprise or the Valley Times in my area. Mm-hmm. And like Wildfire. All of the people that used to believe in me Yeah.
Started not talking to me. That same day, or like that same moment
mm-hmm.
All of a sudden, um, you know, I'm working for a new company that I was merging with. Mm-hmm. I stayed with the same group of people for seven years.
Yeah.
Because of the mortgage switch I went from, uh, at the time I was, and let me, I guess I can probably just tell the story.
Yeah, sure.
So, um, in 2007, the first mortgage crash happened. I was with a company by the name of American Home Mortgage, and it was July, around that time in oh seven. And we get a phone call saying we are no longer gonna be funding loans tomorrow. Pick up your stuff and close your office. We're moving out.
So I'm just an employee doing mortgage loans. Right. I'm just like a mom. Yeah. And I do mortgage loans. You visit me. Yeah. You apply for a loan, you're done. Right. But, um, I, and so you move on. So we, we, I get a phone call one day and they said, Hey, um, we're moving to a company called IndyMac Bank. And I was like, okay, this is a group of people.
And it was my manager at the time. He says, will you stay with us if we give you a sign-on bonus? And I'm like,
sure.
Right. Yeah. You know, what's a sign-on bonus? Which was the money that provided for me to be able to help start my new company.
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm 26 years old. I'm a mom of three. Um, I just had my, I just had my baby girl, my last one who's 11 now.
Yep.
And like I said, it, we just started killing it, working hard mm-hmm. And doing right for families. And primarily my business at the time was about 89 to 94% Hispanic families.
Mm-hmm.
And really showing them to start saving money and doing it the way I had best done it. Mm-hmm. Through many clients, you know?
Yeah. And so I had a repetitive way of doing business and in oh eight we, uh, you know, we were doing great. Um, my company at the time said, Hey, Lisa, we're gonna give you some Mario accounts. Provide those to your agents to help get the revenue back. And so I got six accounts.
Mm-hmm.
And I was. Very excited to give those to my friends, my colleagues, my coworkers and hardworking real estate agents that really wanted to utilize those foreclosures.
Mm-hmm. Um, do CMR on them, do you know, market analysis on them and then help the banks put 'em back on the market to sell back to the consumers. Mm-hmm. And back to the industry. Um, yeah. 'cause nobody wants abandoned houses in their market. Correct. It hurts everybody. Right. So in, in, in going in oh eight, they, you know, I'm, I'm working great.
I'm with Indie Mac Bank. I spent that whole year at Indie Mac Bank doing what I do best. Mm-hmm. Working hard and giving out loans. Well, in oh eight, um, June of oh eight, we were only there a year. We get a call again that IndyMac Banks closing their doors. So we're like, okay, now, well now what are we gonna do?
And they're like, well, we're merging with another bank. And at the time that bank was called Metro Cities mm-hmm. Mortgage, and they were primarily a wholesale company. Okay. So what that means is they pretty much did subprime deals at the time.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, B paper, C paper clients, low income, um, bad credit you call it now.
Mm-hmm. Now they're calling it like a, um, uh, and I, I forgot the name, but they, they're coming back to it now in this market 10 years later. But at that time, you know, like a D
level loan or something? Yeah. Like pretty much,
you know, subprime and, and so. I was just like going with the flow.
Mm-hmm.
At that time, um, what happened was to isolate the area, what they were suing me for were three different, um, situations, and in oh eight I provided three types of loans out of that year, 108 loans mm-hmm.
That I did loans for different people. Right? Yes. So 108 units
mm-hmm.
At a that year while I was with Indie Mac, three of those loans did not make it the full year of full 12 months payments.
Okay.
So the guideline at the time was that if you were gonna move outta your property, which is what people were doing Yep.
They were selling their homes or they were using the rental income to qualify to buy new property.
Mm-hmm.
And they were u and uh, Fannie Mae at that time had made a guideline that stated that you had to have 30% equity
mm-hmm.
In your departing home to be able to use the income rental income to qualify for the new property.
That you were gonna purchase, so, okay. It was a good time for people to maybe buy a cheaper home.
Mm-hmm.
If they had a higher mortgage or maybe upgrade.
Mm-hmm.
And buy the same type of home mm-hmm. For half the price.
Mm-hmm.
And so it was a good time for people to learn how to be investors. Mm-hmm. They really were trying to buy a second home and invest in the first home they bought from.
Mm-hmm. The stated income loan. Again, no awareness. Mm-hmm. No education. Yep. No knowledge of what to do in the real estate industry.
Yep.
Um, it was like handing a kid car keys. Mm-hmm. No preparation. Yep. And those three loans, legitimately, were they, those three homes were closed?
Yep.
So we can go back To fast forward a little bit, I get a, to tell you the story, I get that phone call and I, it's now four o'clock in the afternoon and I get a phone call from Metro Cities, who is now the new company I merged with.
Mm-hmm. Three years later, we all merged together. I get a phone call from my boss at the time. He's like, Hey, we need to talk. And I go, okay, well, who's on the line? He goes, hr, they wanna talk to you. And I'm like, okay, what's going on? They're like, we regret to inform you that you're fired. This is like four hours.
I get out the terminal, I'm like, what do you mean I'm fired? Yeah. They're like, oh, we have to let you go because of this article in the paper that says that you are gonna be criminally indicted for mortgage fraud. And I'm like, I couldn't breathe. Yeah. And I'm looking at my aunt, I'm my uncle, and they're like, what did you do wrong?
And I'm like, I don't know. And I really don't know. Mm-hmm. I'm on the phone with my husband, I'm crying, I'm falling apart. I'm like, what are we going to do? Yeah. And he is like, we're gonna get through it. Like we're legitimately getting sued for 3 million, up to 3 million. 'cause it's up to a million per unit.
Mm-hmm. Or per transaction. We don't $3 million. Right. Right. I mean, we're a family of five, six. Mm-hmm. And we've got three kids and we are just starting as a young couple.
Mm-hmm.
Building our home and we're doing it. We have our company. Right. And we just see that somebody, you thought you were living the American dream, right?
Mm-hmm. We just, we, we all of a sudden think we're working hard, we're not defrauding anybody, we're not being dishonest. Mm-hmm. But all of a sudden, like a wildfire. I went from, and within eight hours being the one of the best loan officers out there, everyone knew I was clean, I was legitimate. I was solid.
Mm-hmm. To now all of a sudden the articles started saying, oh, we knew she was fraudulent. She's gonna be painting her nails in jail. Like people that were my friends, like hurtful. Yeah. I went, I mean, just hurtful things and I'm like, did I do this?
Mm-hmm.
Did I, did I literally do this? And there was a strange feeling of anger.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I had to scramble to. Start a new email because I had to get all my, I had loans in the system.
Mm-hmm. I
had clients that were depending to close on me that now my company was gonna take back because it belonged to my company at Pro Prospect, which is the company I'm currently at. Mm-hmm. In 11, 2011.
And I call my, my manager, I'm like, why would you fire me? I thought you had me. He goes, Lisa, I had no idea they were gonna do that to you.
Mm-hmm.
Mind you, I'm just landing on vacation in Virginia.
Right. So you're, yeah. Your head's in a crazy space. So the, if you did 108 units and three didn't work
in oh eight.
So this is, and mind you, this was a, this, they were suing me three years later. For three
years later. Yeah. So is it, is it, um, I don't know the statistics of how loans work, right. So, but I would assume similar to other businesses, if you do a hundred things. And three don't work. That's kind of like under the radar of things that don't work.
They weren't coming after
me.
Mm.
They were going after huge fish. Yeah. There were people out there that were taking money from elderly people that were losing their homes.
Mm-hmm.
Buying checks, pretending to make their mortgage and then sell the home from within beneath them and make killings. Yeah. I had probably made out of those three loans, I probably made an accumulation of maybe only $8,000 in commission between the three mortgages.
Right. So, which is nothing. Yeah. You're like, why did I commit a fraud for $8,000? Even I was going to three, I mean 3000 max, my commission bracket, and I was under an umbrella.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I have to correct myself. I keep saying 2011 and I apologize, but it really was the first year that they officially, you know, came out with us having to have a license.
Mm-hmm. And in what's what now called the N ML s, the National Mortgage Mortgage Lending license. Like you have to have a DBO license to. Perform mortgages and to have, which is good, right? 'cause it's helping clean a lot of that stuff up. It cleaned out a lot of people that were doing those negative loans.
Mm-hmm. That were doing this as a job. I wasn't doing it as a job, I was doing it as a career to help people.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I, and I, I've said this whole thing in 2011, but 2011 was when I was actually acquitted from the whole stress. So I think that that's where I'm getting my, my years mixed up. But, um, I got my license the same month that I was also being accused of mortgage fraud.
And I wasn't gonna lie to the government. I was Yeah. Very, I'm in.
Mm-hmm.
We're gonna be very transparent. If I still can get my license, I'm gonna tell the truth. Mm-hmm. Because I knew I was innocent. Mm-hmm. I knew I had done the right thing. Yeah. Um, when I got that letter in the mail, it occurred to me, or then the article in the mail, it occurred to me that I had been.
I had been almost cheated.
Mm-hmm.
I had got asked, I got summons from a district assistant, district attorney to come into a courthouse or a an uh, um. I guess they wanted to speak to me about something and they never told me what it was. A deposition. Mm-hmm. I was there for six hours a month prior to that article.
So, so you have 2008, you do the 108 units. Three of them don't work out. It's now 2010. 2010. They call you in for a subpoena. For a subpoena. Which is that common? Like, was that weird to you? I didn't know what I was there for. Yeah. But they, they didn't say it was a subpoena. They just said,
Hey, can you come down and check?
You have to, no, they gave me a subpoena. Okay. They said, you gotta come down. I thought I was there because of something I did with my kids, or like, I didn't know. Right. You're like, I was like, maybe, you know, maybe like somebody's suing me. Right. But I, so I'm, I'm honest, Uhhuh, I was there five hours with the, the assistant district attorney's, um, office, and there was a mediator in the corner.
Mm-hmm. And she's typing away and I'm just like, deposition wasn't, my deposition was six hours, 115 pages. I, I didn't know what I was there for. So he, he invites me over. Yeah. Um, and we're just gonna say his name's Frank. Sure. Right? Mm-hmm. Frank and ak, that's not his real name. Mm-hmm. Um, that district assistant, district attorney.
Um, and he's just so friendly. Yeah. Asking me all these strange questions and then all of a sudden he is like, come back after lunch. So I'm excited having lunch in LA and mm-hmm. Looking around down here in downtown LA and come back at lunch and he starts showing me a whole bunch of applications and Is this your signature?
Is this you, did you do this? And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. All of a sudden I had this choke in my throat. Right. And I know these clients personally. One of them is a family member. Another one was a friend of mine's client. Mm-hmm. And another one was a chick in our office. Mm-hmm. Their client. And so all three of these files were very different files.
Yeah. And so, um, I looked at 'em and I'm like, yes, that's mine. No, that's not my sign. Like, I'm going through this investigation. I walk away, I go home and I'm like, they were auditing these three files. I tell the story. Mm-hmm. So my surprise wasn't a full surprise when I see the article in the paper. Right.
'cause now all of a sudden, boom. Yeah. It made sense. It all made sense. So now I'm like, okay, we gotta get an attorney at that time, because we were being sued for through the company. Mm-hmm. They were trying to say, well, we're gonna sue the whole, your whole real estate office. And now I'm pretty much on my own and I get fired.
Mm-hmm.
And a a a coworker tells them that I tells EDD that I was fired for mortgage fraud. So now I don't even qualify for unemployment, unemployment. And so now we have a debt in our home.
Mm-hmm.
We have kids to feed. I have to get my real estate. I mean, my mortgage loan officer license, I don't even know if I can qualify for that.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm primarily a very big, vast majority of the breadwinner
in my
home.
Well, and what's striking to me is we hear so many stories through the Me Too, me Too movement through different inappropriate behavior of, of people who are high profile. And we're definitely in a period now, years later, from your experience, where if you were accused you're guilty.
Right. And we also talk a lot about the discrepancy between like what race you are and how likely you are just to be accused and blamed right away and what happens to that. And so I, I think this is a really interesting story in the sense that. Y you are an average working mom and wife
and a soccer coach.
Right. I've been coaching for 20 years. Like I'm clean. I'm all of a sudden I went from wearing a pretty little white dress mm-hmm. To stripes. Yeah. Accusing me Yeah. Of hurting families that were my family, my friends, and things that I was blinded to. And finally I was just like, and it was in the month of that summer.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and you realize, I, I come back into town, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm going through the week I got fired, and I'm like, we're just gonna make you moving forward. Yep. Come back into town and in my own office, nobody would look at me, you know, it was just broken. Mm-hmm. Broken. And I'm like, wow.
Was the company allowed to fire you
for being accused of something?
I have no idea. Yeah. No idea at the time. Mm-hmm. And I still will never know. I probably, they just, they didn't want anybody coming around and snooping through their, you know, the company I was working for at the time probably didn't want the feds to go looking through their stuff for all I know. I have no idea.
I was just, yeah. Okay. Move on to another company.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, I, I applied for unemployment and at the time I'm just like, we're gonna keep on making it afloat. I applied for my license, I studied as if I had not been accused of anything. Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna get my license, come hell or high water, I'm gonna keep doing loans because I knew that I was good at what I did.
Yeah. And I was, people can count and trust me mm-hmm. With their transparency mm-hmm. And their homes and their finances. This is in my head at the time I was
confident. Yeah.
Um,
how, how, um, from when the article came out. How long was it before there was anyone like actually served you papers about being indicted or about being accused?
Six months. Mm-hmm. So that agony was long. Yeah. 'cause you never knew it was actually gonna happen. It
was just a, it was just an article. Yeah. An article that were stories. Mm-hmm. Um, and in the article, I dunno if you wanna pull it up, it's um. If you Google my name and you, you, you look that up, you'll see that the article is really about other people defrauding.
Wells Fargo was, was being accused of mortgage fraud and they were looking for big people, big numbers. And so I was just a mom and pop shop in a little tiny city with three little mortgage loans and I was really losing my whole world.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and in just the summer of oh 10, I lost my job. I, I lost, I mean, my, we, we pretty much, I, I had to, I couldn't afford my car.
I went three months. I mean, I remember I didn't have money to buy lunch money for my kids, for food to get them to start school that September. You know, like I didn't know what to do, but we just kept doing loans and real estate and I was just gonna keep on going. And, um, it wasn't until November, 2010, you know, my, my answer at the time says.
We're really getting sued. Mm-hmm. Hey, and nobody wants to help us, Lisa. We, we need to get an attorney. And at that point, I started looking into guidelines and I said, I'm not guilty for this.
Mm-hmm. I
was under an umbrella when those lost, when those mortgages were done.
Mm-hmm.
I followed every guideline.
Mm-hmm. And I made sure that there were appraisals for every home that we did if we used income for them.
Mm-hmm.
But they wouldn't let me see anything.
Who's, who's they?
The, the attorney that was suing me, the district attorney of the, you know, the, yeah. They, they wouldn't let me see anything. It was all blind.
Yeah. You're accused pay up. Or we're gonna take you to jail. Mm-hmm. Pretty much. Mm-hmm. So come February, 2011, I, I get a phone call from, um, the broker of our office at the time, and he says, we need to settle. And I'm like, don't settle. We're not settling. I'm not settling. I think I've looked this through.
Yeah. We are not going to settle because I'm the owner of this company too. Yeah. My, we put in the money. I just wasn't the, my husband wasn't the broker.
Mm-hmm.
So I, I look at Richard and I said, we're not settling. Please don't settle. He says the broker wants to settle. Well, the broker settled and booked it.
So Richard and I at that time, mm. Richard had to get his broker's license. 'cause we had 67 agents working under us. These are 67 families that depended on this company to do well.
Yeah.
So I believe we made a decision as a company that was left with three owners, my, my myself as his wife. Mm-hmm. Um, and he went against my decision and decided to settle and whatever the company settled for, I found to be guilty.
And I said, do not settle because we're not guilty.
Mm-hmm.
And at that point, once I realized I got some information and we got attorneys, we went through three attorneys that would not go up against the feds, they're like, not a chance it's gonna cost you 60 to $70,000 to prove your innocence. Now mind you, the article wasn't even really about us.
Mm-hmm. But somebody isolated it down to that big of a situation. Yeah. That I was like, I'm fighting it. Come I'm not, I don't care. I'm fighting it.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
The best. Did you fight it
individually or did you guys fight it as a group? They as a company. Mm-hmm. Um, because the company was accused. Right.
Addition, the company was individuals. Right. And at that point, when we all started combing through mm-hmm. They released a lot of the names that were in this situation in, within our company. Truth be told, they were trying to take blood from a turnip.
Mm-hmm. They
didn't know. They just saw a couple of our taxes for a couple years prior to, and we were an up and coming new company.
New business. Yeah. So they saw that we made a million dollars, but that wasn't what we really made. Mm-hmm. It was three partners in the real estate office doing res selling, real estate help, just new business. And there was one loan officer who was working as an in-house loan officer, happens to be the wife of the new broker.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, it wasn't me.
Mm-hmm.
But it was. It was me. Well, it was you in the sense that you were the, the wife in-house lender. Mm-hmm. And I was the wife. Mm-hmm. So now I'm the reputation. I am all this, I'm the spotlight.
Mm-hmm.
And I was adamant I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna back down because I know what I did and I didn't do.
So did you guys go to court? No.
Never heard anything about it till about March of 2011.
Yeah.
Um, I get a phone call and they said, Lisa, you by yourself, you are actually going criminal. And I go, what're? Like, so it just keeps getting worse. They're, it just keeps getting worse. Yeah. But then I realized they, since the company, uh, that we had at the time was called Beachwood Realty
mm-hmm.
Since they decided as the three of them as investors to settle
mm-hmm. And
say, Hey, we'll just settle with you. Um, against my opinion. Yeah. And as his wife, I've said. Maybe that's giving up, you know, like you're just admitting fault.
Mm-hmm.
But for him, it was easier than going through the entire process.
Process through the entire thing. Mm-hmm. Was I respect him for doing that. Mm-hmm. Um, he didn't wanna put his family through it, but the truth be told, I was adamant about not quitting something.
Mm-hmm.
Because I had something to believe in. Yeah. I had, I had truly my name that maybe it sounds selfish, but I know that I wasn't putting families in bad positions at that moment in my life.
Yeah. So there was still no, this was still in the clouds. Mm-hmm.
You
know, there's no real evidence. That I was at fault for this.
So how did it jump from being the company that was being sued and you were part of the accused parties to suddenly you as an individual were charged criminally? Because I wouldn't settle.
Ah. So now, so everyone
else settled except you, right? They separated you out? They separated me out. Mm-hmm. And then I get a phone call that says, well, then we just finally approved that you get to, they're, they're gonna take you down as criminal prior to now at this point. Mm-hmm. That was probably the best thing they can do, because, remind you, I have no more money.
Lost my job. Yeah. I had my car repossessed. Mm-hmm. I couldn't get unemployment. Mm-hmm. I couldn't feed my kids and I'm barely holding on to what I had left.
Mm-hmm.
And three months later, I did have a company believe in me. Yeah. Let me start doing loans again. And I got my license as a lender. Mm-hmm. And I'm doing business again.
Finally. Solid. Yeah. And I'm fighting through this. And the, um. Criminal attorney gives me a call and says, I need to meet with you down in la. They gave me a public defender.
Mm-hmm.
And at that point, I'm gonna be really honest and transparent. I got down on my knees and I just said, if I did it, gimme my punishment.
Mm-hmm. Because if I put three families through grief and they lost their home because I would overlooked Yeah. What maybe an assistant had did. My name was on the paperwork, I'm gonna own up to it. Yeah. But I need to see it.
Mm-hmm.
So I came in to LA that day, the gentleman who saw my case mm-hmm. Who was a criminal public defender.
He says, you know, the, I, I wanna know your story. Mm-hmm.
So
just like today, I told my story. I brought the guidelines, I showed each application, and I showed that I followed guidelines for the bank's under the bank's umbrella.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, the rules at the time in oh eight, what they were requiring us to do in order for us to give the buyer a new loan at that time.
Yep. And luckily, great memory, served me purposeful. Mm-hmm. Because. He sat back in his seat, he goes, that district attorney, that assistant district attorney, he literally is, this is almost like a coup. Yeah. Lisa, the, all the depositions were not making sense. He almost as a husband and wife, one was accusing me and the other one was being honest.
But I really think they put that couple up against a corner when they were doing their deposition.
Mm-hmm.
And the husband would say, well, no, Lisa didn't tell us that we needed to buy a house. She was actually very transparent. And, you know, I, I feel for the couples that were being sued, because I think that what really happened
is that.
And this is, but, uh, the couples that bought the house were being sued because they foreclosed on them. Mm-hmm. Okay.
So what, what really happened was I, and I'm just gonna give you one isolated incident, um, and one specific couple wanted came to me. They wanted to buy a house, and I remember this family very well.
Uh, they wanted to upgrade.
Mm-hmm.
And they came to me and said, we wanna buy a two story home in the same neighborhood, or not the same neighborhood, but a, a genuine area. They wanted to upgrade from their smaller home to a bigger home and a nicer area. Yeah. And it was half the price.
Mm-hmm.
So, telling you the story now, and I was like, well, duh.
Right. But that wasn't the case in that market at the time. Mm-hmm. Um, I helped them finance the home. They told me that their mom was, they needed a home that had a, a bedroom downstairs because the grandma, the mom was living with them.
Mm-hmm. And
they wrote a letter saying, we are buying this home because we need a house that has a single story so mom can come live on the bottom bedroom.
Yeah. So I made them write a letter indicating that and signing it, saying, you're not gonna lose your other house. Right? Mm-hmm. You are legally signing that you can uphold two mortgages, yes or no.
Mm-hmm.
And they're responsible for that. We're in a state where if you sign a contract, you're responsible to pay back that note.
Mm-hmm. If I borrow the money, yeah. I gotta find a way to pay you back that money, whether it takes me five years or 30 years. Yep. I'm in debt to you.
Mm-hmm.
Um, well, what ended up happening is they never moved into that new home. They stayed in the home that they said they were gonna move out of. And they spent time fixing up the new home.
What they were doing is they got a new FHA loan, which is a federal, you know Yep. Down, low down payment home. And they were trying to be investors uneducated.
Mm-hmm.
And that almost took my whole family down because they were not educated. They had no awareness. Mm-hmm. And then they turned around and when they foreclosed on their new home, because the mortgage insurance came to their door, kind of.
Yeah. And they said, Hey, why did you foreclose? And because they foreclosed, they wanted their money back. Hu's like, you're gonna pay me back our money. You shouldn't have bought this home.
Mm-hmm.
Guess what? Your notes due. Well, of course the husband and wife's gonna say, well, our lender said we can qualify.
Boom. Mm-hmm. Completely took responsibility off their own hands. And they were looking for someone to blame. They blamed Lisa.
Yeah.
When they originally came to me saying, we want your help.
And as soon as the, the attorney that was appointed to you saw. Like of this, like he saw the paper stream and he's like, what's going on?
This is, this is a
joke.
Yeah.
He goes, Lisa, you did not try to put a a gun to this head and try to make commission on this. You are helping these people buy a home.
Mm-hmm.
So this isolated insulin, like I said, um, that couple specifically, the wife was lying on the deposition. Mm-hmm. The husband was being honest, but the wife was like, we're not gonna pay that mortgage back.
The husband's like, uh, you can see the holes in the deposition.
Mm-hmm. You
could see where he was trying to not necessarily put it on me.
Yeah.
But the wife wasn't gonna put it on them.
So how, so you meet with the attorney, he realizes that this is bs. Yeah. And, and then what happens?
So, uh, again, we're now about nine months later right?
Yeah. Into this whole AC accusation and, um, he brings up the case. 'cause now this attorney is the first attorney. This public defender's, the first attorney that. Close the doors.
Mm-hmm.
Showed me all the evidence that were, was up against me. Mm-hmm. Not even the company. And he says, do you know what you're being sued for?
And I said, no. He shows me those files again. Mm-hmm. And we revisit a, a year later that deposition. Mm-hmm. We revisit each file. One file was a, a family member who legitimately had been working 10 months mm-hmm. And got and got fired during that market. 'cause now the market crashes. Right. He was a construction worker and, and he was a family member.
I, yeah. I knew. And he just couldn't afford his mortgages. Both mortgages. Right. Which could have happened to anybody, anybody.
Mm-hmm.
So, but in, in their eyes, I was making him buy that second home. They were pointing it out that I made him buy that second home. And what they, how would they know that? Well, because my, my, I am just gonna say my, it was my brother, my ex-brother-in-law.
Mm. You know, he legitimately was in a small home. He had bought at a good time, years prior. Mm-hmm. Outgrew the home. Grandkids were coming and it was in a really low, moderate income family home.
Mm-hmm.
For sake of, I can't even use this word, but it was in a bad area.
Yeah.
And some gangsters came into his house, beat his family up, and by, from one night to another, he's like, we gotta move out.
Which any logical person probably say, my sister-in-law does loans. Let's get a house through her. Mm-hmm. We get him into a mortgage. Now he has two mortgages. But 10 months later with the crash, he can't do construction, so he doesn't have an income anymore.
Mm-hmm.
So he stopped making his mortgage payments before the year was up.
So his mortgage, he did foreclose. I probably could have maybe spent more time with him after he bought a second home to teach him how to maybe escape that second home and rent it out too. But
that's not even the responsibility of somebody who's, that's not my responsibility. But, and I know that you're putting your own, 'cause there's a lot I could have done.
Well, yes. But there's also, when it's a, there's, in hindsight, there's always things that show up. And if it wasn't legally required, then there shouldn't be. Right. A lawsuit.
Well, I mean, I, you know, that, that isolated insulin, that was my loan. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I, I, I took care of that loan. So when I met with the, with the public defender, I asked, I told him, I said, that was my file.
Mm-hmm.
And I know what I did. I did everything. Per guideline. Mm-hmm. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Right. I did everything per guideline, what the bank expected of me as their employee
mm-hmm.
Did not defraud the system. I checked my work. Mm-hmm. There was nothing fraudulent in that, that that transaction.
Right. So what really I think the district attorney was looking for in me was the other two files.
Mm-hmm.
Um, going back to that husband and wife situation where they never really moved their mother-in-law into the house. Yeah. That guy was slick. Mm-hmm. He would see me at the softball fields and talk to me, oh, we haven't moved in yet, and I'm thinking you have to move in.
Right. You signed a contract and FHA requires that you move in. That's an owner occupied home. I would tell him this. Mm-hmm. Those six months that I was in like limbo. Yeah. What was really going on. Mm-hmm. I would see him throughout the city and I, it struck me odd that he would find me and he had, he never told me that he had did a deposition.
He, he, he would walk. It's almost like he was talking to you. 'cause he had that guilty conscious that he knew he had done something.
It was weird.
Mm-hmm.
And so I'm now with the district attorney. I'm now with this public defender and now I'm angry.
Yeah. I mean, I would've been angry from the first phone call I was
Right.
I was just like, we're fighting this. And he is like, slow down turbo. Mm-hmm. I know where you wanna go with this, but you have to understand this is a very sensitive case.
Mm-hmm.
The third case in, in, in question, at the time, uh, it was a coworker of ours who was no longer working at our office anymore. He had got let go of, um, he did do fraud.
He came in with fake pay stubs. Mm-hmm. Fake W twos. And I mean, for what it was worth. I didn't, I wasn't a detective. Right. How would you know his son was the owner of the company?
Mm-hmm.
We had a real verification of employments. We had real pay stubs, everything matched. Mm-hmm. W2, everything was right.
Mm-hmm.
Turns out, um, they foreclosed within the first year and when the district attorneys was looking into suing me, he thought I was in on that scam. On that scam. Mm-hmm. Again, my name was on the application as the originator.
Mm-hmm.
So, sure. But we're still looking at a $3,000 impossible commission and you wanna sue me for a million dollars of mortgage fraud.
Really? Like, do you not care about the fact that I am bleeding? Mm-hmm. On the ground?
I don't think they do. Right. They don't care.
Right. So this whole time, I mean, I'm being stubborn and my, even my, at the time, my Richard's like, why aren't you just give up? Mm-hmm. I said I can't,
well, I, I mean, I don't think I could either in situations because there's an element of justice that is so strong for me internally.
I was a woman ready to fight.
Well, yeah. I mean, even I
was battling for my kids and my husband and my home.
Yeah.
Because I knew that, I knew my job. I spent 10 years prior to that studying what FHA stood for.
Well, and, and when you've worked so hard to create a career on your own, that you've done it all yourself, that you've gone through this whole process.
And in that type of industry, your name is so important. Like, I mean, that's all I have. It is in every industry, but I think it's different when your name is what's coming, having paying my bills. Right. And people are coming in. It's different when I can do work underneath, you know, whatever corporation I work for, but you, it's much more direct to the individual customers that you have.
Right. And so, you know, I, I went in, um, May 16th, 2011. It was the day that the, uh, I got a phone call after meeting with that public defender.
Mm-hmm.
And he says, so, um, the judge decided, um, that we are gonna go criminal on you. And I was scared. Mm-hmm. I was super scared. I mean, like, I just remember going on my couch and I just told my husband, I'm like, I gotta go to jail.
I think I, I, I just fell apart.
Mm-hmm.
And I was ready to go to jail. I was ready. If I did it, I did it.
Mm-hmm.
Gimme my time. Yeah. And I remember at the time, you know, Richard goes, if it were me, I would go to jail for you. And I'm like, but you can't, so don't tell me that you would go do something for me that you can't do.
I'm not gonna see my kids. Mm-hmm. And all I've been doing is helping people build their homes. I'm not here to break people's homes down.
Mm-hmm.
I'm a builder. I'm a person that believes in a strong foundation. Mm-hmm. And my, my word is, you know, it's, it's who I am. I've always considered being a person.
And my goal is to be a woman of valor. Mm-hmm. Honest. Mm-hmm. Transparent. And that is hard. That's very hard when you got three kids and you gotta do all these things. And that sounds funny to say. It's hard and it should be easy, but you're dealing with different families. And I wasn't a liar.
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't a manipulator.
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't sneaky.
Mm-hmm.
But I was creative.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what made me, gave me my name, is that I was a creative finance advisor, but
that's who you want someone to be. It's like someone who does well on the stock market. Like when, when any system has a set of rules, it's all about being created within the rules that you're given.
It's, I think it's just the human nature. Right. Right. If you're told you have to stay in this box, half the group. Is gonna be like, um, what do you mean by have to, and can we define this box please? It's just nature because nobody, people don't wanna do what they're told to do, and then it just goes from there.
But being creative is a resource for people.
Right. And, and, and being creative means it in a form. You do have to understand what manipulation looks like. You have to be able to, you don't have to lie. No. You, you do have to use, um, knowledge and wisdom. Mm-hmm. I, I knew that for years before I was reading and reading and studying what the bank's rules were so that I wasn't giving bad information.
Yeah. Because you're doing your job Well,
I, I mattered and I didn't wanna mislead my clients in any way. So when I sat with that district attorney again, um, you know, I said, are you gonna drop this from being a criminal case? And he says, no. I'm like, you've taken everything from me. Mm-hmm. So at this point, now I'm starting to feel guilty.
Yeah. Right. I mean, all the evidence is against me. Why not just go with them? Right. But something in the back of my throat said, no.
Mm-hmm.
Don't quit on this. So couple days later, that public defender gave me a call
mm-hmm.
And says, I'm gonna meet with the judge personally, see why they got away with giving you, making this go criminally.
Mm-hmm.
Where did he have, what does he have Right. That you guys don't have, uh, access to yet? Why are we going civil? Mm-hmm. Why are we going civil? Why are we going criminally? Is Lisa really a criminal? Right. And so I truly believe that, you know. By the grace of God. Um, you know, this man fell in my lap.
Mm-hmm. This public defender fell in my lap and he, he, he wanted to hear Mike's story. Mm-hmm. He wanted to hear the truth. Mm-hmm. And I told him the truth. I, I showed him guidelines. Mm-hmm. I was thankful for everything I had studied. Had I learned, I had spent time working really hard to remember.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I didn't forget.
Mm-hmm.
I knew every file I did. Mm-hmm. I knew that I wasn't gonna mislead families. Mm-hmm. I was confident on that in itself.
Yeah.
So he says, what do you wanna do? I said, I wanna fight it. He goes, I'll fight this for you criminally, and you're gonna be just fine.
Mm-hmm. But
that doesn't mean the civil case goes away for you.
Yeah.
So I'm like, I don't care. Right. Let's one step at a time.
Mm-hmm.
I was sitting at my grandma's house one day. My grandma was in an assisted living house. Um, she still lives there. She's my mom. My, my. My, the woman in my life, my inspiration, and she suffers from dementia. And I'm sitting there painting her nails and he gives me a call and he goes, how you doing today?
And I'm like, I'm good. You know?
Mm-hmm.
I wish I can tell you this public defender's name. Yeah. Couldn't find him after I, after he, this phone call was the last phone call I had. And he says, you can breathe. Hmm. The judge agreed with me. Um, I put everything you said in one letter, and within 30 minutes he says, she's not the one.
I said, are you kidding? Nine, 10 months of feeling like I'm supposed to go to jail. I mean, I had a friend of mine who was down at the Harpa Valley Police Department. I go, please pick me up. Mm-hmm. Can we make this as quiet? I don't want a bunch of cops knocking down my door in front of my kids and getting arrested in front of my kids.
Mm-hmm. Like I was legitimately afraid. Yeah. And embarrassed. And people were talking about me. My neighbors were like, she's gonna go to jail. Like people that called my called themselves my friends. Mm-hmm. And I was like, thank you for all this happening. Mm-hmm. Because I got to see who I washed away as colleagues, right.
As friends, as troop coworkers that believed in me. Mm-hmm. Turns out you really didn't even know me. Right. Because I would've never done anything to hurt to family at all.
Right. Like if someone hadn't called up yesterday and made that accusation of you and I'd be like, that didn't happen.
Come on. There's no way.
I know Lisa. That's like someone telling Lisa right now that she doesn't care about her three kids. Right. Someone would be like, you don't know her. Yeah. She would probably smack you for saying that. 'cause Yeah. Her kids matter. Like my kids, my kids' life, my family's lives, my life, my friend's life. Mm-hmm.
People I associate myself with, they matter because people matter. We're here to love each other. Yeah. I'm not walking one path and doing something different on the other side. I am authentic. I am who I am. Mm-hmm. I know who I am. I am not trying to go away from that at, at all at this point in my life, you know,
of a hundred percent.
And, and so. The, um, lawyer calls you says you're cleared of everything. Was that criminal and civil? Nope.
Just criminal.
Okay. Yeah. And so you got that off of your plate, right. Which is like, I'm
sure a huge
relief.
Oh gosh. I felt like, and the thing, first thing that comes in my mind is all of a sudden my wings opened up very largely.
And that's how you felt? I was like, oh, we're on.
Mm-hmm.
We're going on. Who wants to go in the ring with me?
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't lying. Yeah. I wasn't guilty and I had no money.
Mm-hmm.
When we had just settled civilly. Or buying myself into more debt.
So did he, did you go to court for the civil portion?
No, that was the last day I saw.
So he did it all got
dropped? No. So, um, prior to that, he says, what have you done in the last six months? I said, well, since they had advised me to do a community service
mm-hmm.
I had started working at a. Riverside has a, a volunteer service, you can do 2 1 1. Mm-hmm. So every Friday for like a, I don't know, I was going for months.
Mm-hmm. I'd go every Friday and volunteer and I, I was having a great time. I was working for an organization that the city has, which is 2 1 1, where the homeless people can go. And I was volunteering community service hours. 'cause in the event mm-hmm. That I was gonna go to court, I can say to the judge, look if I was guilty mm-hmm.
And I did do something wrong, here's my due diligence. Mm-hmm. I've done community service. I was taking advice from all the attorneys that we had. So Amped Lisa, we were gonna get
mm-hmm.
Slaughtered by.
Mm-hmm.
And um. But 2 1, 1 was a, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Mm-hmm. Because I was serving the community
mm-hmm.
In
a different way that I didn't even know how many families really were in need in the city.
Yep.
And it was a great program. So when he says, what have you been doing? I said, well, for the, this is at the meeting with the district attorney. The assistant district attorney's office. Mm-hmm. Remind you he's a new young district attorney learning his way.
Yeah.
And he was just hired to audit these files. Mm-hmm. It was his sole job. Mm-hmm. So now what he's, what I'm up against with him on the other side of the table is I'm gonna go after you. I'm gonna tell your boss what you did, and you poke, you literally poked at a rock that had no blood. Mm-hmm. You didn't even consider my family.
Mm-hmm.
When you were coming at me civilly and you didn't care to listen to me. He goes, can I be honest with you, Lisa? And I go,
please, that's why we're here.
He goes, I really like you. He goes, and it took days for me to put your deposition together because I knew that it wasn't you, but I needed somebody.
I'm like, what?
I would've jumped across the table and tackled him Well, and to, and to, to, to be validated by the person that's accusing you, that you are innocent. Secretly. Even secretly, if no one else heard it. It it, like you're saying, it reinvigorates your passion for not accepting what, what I they're giving you.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I, and because had he not gone criminal for me
mm-hmm.
I wouldn't have got that guy who believed in me. Mm-hmm. Nobody else believed in me. My community didn't believe in me. My boss didn't believe in me. My mentor didn't know what was going on. Yeah. My friends stopped talking to me.
How, what?
When you're in that moment. Like, what did you do, what did you do for yourself to not lose your sanity and like to know, like to keep grounded while that was going on?
Didn't give up on faith.
Yeah.
That moment that I gave up to Serenity.
Mm-hmm.
The moment I gave up the pride
mm-hmm.
I, I humbled myself in my, in like, and the scene is.
And to give you a little better scene is I dropped down in my knees in my closet and I said, if I did this,
yeah.
Give me ownership. The civil case brought out a lot of depositions, started coming out. A lot of these people, the real estate agents on those and isolated files mm-hmm. They started being more honest.
That's what saved me.
How did it this, uh, moment wrap up for you?
Um, I pulled out all the evidence that I had and I said, this is what I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna pull outta court. Right? Mm-hmm. It was probably a piece of paper and a pencil for Yeah. And, um, because you were representing yourself, right?
I'm gonna be my own federal attorney, and I'm like, he goes 20 hours of community service, something silly like that. Yeah. And I'm like, no. And he goes, I'll let you use your coaching hours as volunteer hours. You sign the paperwork
mm-hmm.
And send 'em to me every month. And I said, I'll think about it.
Mm-hmm.
Closed up my files, picked up all the appraisals, picked up all those old application, all the evidence I had gathered in nine months mm-hmm. Of trying to be real. He calls me three weeks later. Did you make a decision after the pressure? After being tired. Mm-hmm. After fighting, after running a really long race.
Mm-hmm. I said, I'll do 20 hours, but I want a pardon letter from hud. He goes, why? I said, go on the internet.
Mm-hmm. And
you type up my name.
Mm-hmm.
The first thing on that, on the internet is my federal inconsistency of being a good person. Mm-hmm. I had clients calling me and saying, why would I work with you because you're, you're you, you do mortgage fraud.
I'm like, this is my way of living. Like, this is how I
pay my bills. So you gave him 20 hours, which you'd already done.
Yeah.
And then did he give you the letter?
I got it eventually.
Yeah.
Never saw him again.
You know, I love that this, this conversation has gotten into so many areas between what happens in the criminal and civil cases and how, um, not honest they can be, and how prejudice they can be and how, um, it really isn't always a innocent until proven guilty world.
It's quite the opposite. Mm-hmm. It's talked about how much, like the whole regulations, like why we need them and how they actually help the people who are doing things the right way most of the time. There's also ones that are weird and seem unnecessary sometimes. Mm-hmm. But like, we don't, people don't pay a lot of attention of how money is handled in this country.
They're definitely not paying attention most of the time for our own money, which we sh I ask everyone listening to do more of, um. And we're offering tools on that, on powerful ladies about that. So check out some basics there. But then also like paying attention to local, state, federal laws and processes about how you as a consumer need to be protected.
Because unfortunately, we can't rely on people. Like, everyone's not the good loan officer. No. You know,
I, I'm, I, I, you know what I did differently? Um, how, you know, from that closing out, what I did differently was make sure that I always kept my word.
Mm-hmm.
I, and, and I didn't, not, not keep my word before.
Right. I just, it became more of a priority. It became more of a priority mm-hmm. Of making sure that if you sat down with me
mm-hmm.
We were gonna not have a conversation for five minutes about you buying a house, you were gonna stay with me for an hour.
Mm-hmm.
And we were gonna have a honest, vulnerable, transparent, let's get all naked in the room today, guys, because
mm-hmm.
I understand that you wanna buy a home. But how prepared are you really? Yep. And so what I did to change my life was I made sure I be gave better awareness. Um, today I'm a big advocate of not, I'm a big adv, not of not, but I'm a big advocate of home buying education.
Yep.
I'm a big advocate. I teach classes now.
I'm a continuing education. Mm-hmm. A real estate instructor.
There's pride in being able to own your own home and take care of it, and to take care of your family and to have your finances organized in a way that allows 'em to work for you. People used to say.
You are the originator. Lisa, you should tell me how much I qualify for.
I said, you can right now in today's market. Mm-hmm. According to the bank, if you have a pulse, you can actually buy a half a million dollar home.
Mm-hmm.
That's because that's what we set up as a, as a con, as an industry with these stated income loans. These negative loans. Mm-hmm. We did this to our consumers.
We set them up to fail and I saw that firsthand and I wasn't gonna be a part of that. I'm not saying I'm perfect. Yeah. I'm not saying I didn't make mistakes. What I'm saying is I stayed away from it, especially with my consumers that did not know what a mortgage even was spelled out to be. They didn't know what PITI stood for.
Mm-hmm. I sure wasn't gonna say you can do $2,000 a month. Right. You can buy a $400,000 house. Right. Because $400,000 outta commission would equal a certain amount of money. Mm-hmm And that was appealing to originators. This is why a lot of loan officers came into the industry. Yeah. When the refinance boom came in.
'cause they thought they can make money. They took it as a job. Mm-hmm. And going back to my point in March of 2001, when they mm-hmm. Changed that guideline that there was no more yield spreads, I believe almost 10,000 alone officers were no longer loan officers. Just in your, uh, um, no, in the State of California.
State of California. Yeah. I don't know the statistics and I don't have the paperwork up in front of me, but I was very proud of that moment. Yeah. That they decided to take that yield spread out and change that for the banks. And those are just, I don't tell people how much they can afford. I ask them,
yeah.
You know, if you can make a mortgage payment, what can you, where are you comfortable?
Mm-hmm.
A lot of people today still save $1,500 mm-hmm. In the Inland Empire. That's almost impossible.
Mm-hmm.
Because rent's $1,700. Right. At least.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and so when people would say, I can afford. $1,500. I'm like, okay, so $1,500 two plus two is four.
Right? Easy. You have to buy a house at a hundred and $200,000. Mm-hmm. Well, there is no house That's for $200,000. Okay, well there is. There really is. We're just gonna have to move. You can't live in Riverside. You can't live in Orange County or Anaheim. Mm-hmm. You just have to move to Beaumont. Then we go with people complaining about their commute.
Well then you don't wanna own a home that bad because when we owned a home as a family, my grandfather was traveling from Moreno Valley to Long Beach for, I mean, can you imagine the drive at three in the morning and then at three o'clock in the afternoon. No, thank you. He did it. And he did it because he lived below his means, which is where we started with this entire conversation, is that he did not buy above his means.
He was responsible.
Mm-hmm.
He lived at a 43% debt to income ratio. He did not spend more than what he needed. He didn't meet up to the Joneses. He didn't care.
Yeah. So as we're wrapping up the podcast, um. What are you excited about as you're moving into this new job at Power of Now? It's, uh, the power is now.
Power
is now. Excuse me. Yeah. So I'm gonna take a position that's, uh, titled as the Director of Lender Services for the state, uh, or for my area. Mm-hmm. And he had, he wants me to direct and start URA and helping the Hispanic community know that the power is now.
Mm-hmm.
Meaning, um, let's, let's get together.
Yeah. Same thing. And you can do this. It doesn't matter where the market's gonna go, it's where you need to go to do what you gotta do to get in. If buying a house is part of that role, let's do it.
Mm-hmm.
But let's make sure you're in the right place. So I'm excited to see that this market's coming up.
I've been studying the market, like I said. Mm-hmm. I've been analyzing a lot of this. I have some good friends, uh, a a specific friend that's an economist, and when I met 'em last year, I was like all excited and I said, this is what's gonna happen. He goes. What makes you think that? I'm like, this is what I found out.
And he goes, you're right. Mm-hmm. And he's an economist. Mm-hmm. And he's been doing this his whole life. I mean, I don't know how old, you know, Elliot is, but he was like impressed. He's like, you really have done your homework.
Mm-hmm.
I don't have a college degree.
Yeah.
I have a mommy degree. Right. And in that I had to learn how to reinvent myself.
I had to really go invest in educating myself along the way. Mm-hmm. And keeping my word and remembering everything. So 2019 is exciting because, um, I'm launching off this, uh, this new project with the Wally Center. Having, uh, the ability to have families come in, talk about their home and how they can better their home and how, you know, their children that they're dealing with autism or any type of, of mental health disorder.
Like I have that available. The Wally Center has that available. So if you have, um. A situation and you don't know what to do with it, but you wanna get into a home and you've got a child who is in need and, and you don't know exactly. The Wally Center has therapists and counselors that can help you.
Mm-hmm. Um, walk your family through it. They got parenting classes and things like that. Now they have a financial originator mm-hmm. Financial advisor, maybe a counselor that can say, this is what I can show you. Yeah. And I'm not so much necessarily looking to get the loans as much as I'm getting that. Uh, that, that I would call it like, you know, a physical Yeah.
You go to the doctor's office, you just have a physical done.
Mm-hmm.
And, and having that avail, that service available. Mm-hmm. So that's one really cool project that I'm working. I'm also working really close with the Fair Housing in the Inland Empire. Um, fair Housing, what's it called?
Fair Housing. Fair Housing.
And the Riverside, uh, inland Empire. The, uh, director of Fair Housing, her name is Rose May. She's got a big project going on right now and I was privileged to meet her recently. Very powerful woman. She's, uh, in charge of leading the new fair housing, going on a building that they're really trying to make a lot of new changes.
Uh, fair Housing is in itself, it, it says what it is. Mm-hmm. They're trying to raise money to put their new building in. So she's a powerful woman all in herself. I can't wait till you meet her. Awesome. So I'm working with them a lot right now. And then now my new project is the new position they just offered me at the Power is Now, and I'm gonna.
I'm gonna see what I can do. Yeah. I think that the power is now because I've spent the last 15, actually, it's my 18th year as an loan officer originating home loans.
Congratulations. Thank
you. Um, I'm, I'm gonna show people the power. Mm-hmm.
The
power is being strong.
Mm-hmm.
And, and not letting people tell you who you are.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I know who I am. Yeah. Always known who I am and good, bad, and indifferent.
Mm-hmm.
I am going to show my girls that they don't go based off of what people tell them they are. Mm-hmm. Because if I went based off of who I was at that lawsuit,
yeah.
I would've been in depression and anxiety and drinking and any of that kind of stuff would've never helped me.
Yeah. So, and luckily I didn't.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I, I teach my daughter, be smarter, be wiser.
Mm-hmm.
And don't just let people tell you who you are.
Yeah.
Make yourself through being real.
Mm-hmm.
And be proud of who you are. So I'm excited that the power is now, and this year is gonna be a good year.
We've been asking every guest on this podcast where they rank on, we're calling it The Powerful Ladies Scale, where if Zero is human and powerful, ladies is a 10, where do you feel you are at today and where do you feel like you're at on average?
I wanna say a 10, because I'm ready.
Yeah.
I'm not afraid to be a 10.
I like that. Yeah. I'm not afraid to be a 10. I wish more people felt that way. So, Lisa, thank you so much for coming on our podcast. I think this is an amazing story that there's so many elements people can take away, and for sure, I think perseverance is probably the number one that I'm gonna take away from this.
Um, but thank you so much. All right, thank you. Thank you guys.
I hope you all enjoyed this episode. It takes a lot of courage to tell your story and especially to share the struggles. Thank you, Lisa, for wanting to share one of the scariest and hardest chapters in your life with the powerful Ladies audience. I'm left being reminded of how important it is to never give up on believing in yourself and your truth.
I'm also reminded of the importance to take responsibility of your financial health. There is a way to chase and live your American dream. Regardless of your current financial situation, this is something that's so important to me that we are working on a series of financial literacy courses through Powerful Ladies.
I can't wait to share them with you. Make sure that you go and sign up for our newsletter@thepowerfulladies.com. Follow us on Instagram at the powerful ladies and check out our YouTube channel where the courses will be coming soon. If you'd like to support the work that we're doing here at Powerful Ladies, there's a couple of ways you can do that.
Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Google Play, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave a review on any of these platform. Share the show with all the powerful ladies and gentlemen in your life. Join our Patreon account. Check out the website, the powerful ladies.com to hear more inspiring stories.
Get practical tools to be your most powerful. Get 15% off your first order in The Powerful Ladies Shop, or donate to the Powerful Ladies one Day of Giving campaign. And of course, follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies for show notes and to get the links to the books, podcasts, and people we talk about.
Go to the powerful ladies.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. She's one of the first female audio engineers in the podcasting world, if not the first. And she also happens to be the best. We're very lucky to have her. She's a powerful lady in her own right, in addition to taking over the podcasting world.
She's a singer songwriter working on our next album, and she's one of my sisters. So it's amazing to be creating this with her, and I'm so thankful that she finds time and her crazy busy schedule to make this happen. It's a testament to her belief in what we're creating through Powerful Ladies, and I'm honored that she shares my vision.
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
Hey guys, did you know that there is a way that you can show powerful ladies some real love? You can be a Patreon of The Powerful Ladies Podcast. Go to patreon.com/powerful. Ladies, there are over six choices for you to figure out how you would like to support us from $5 all the way up to unicorn support.
Really, that's what it's called. You can be a powerfully unicorn. Who doesn't wanna be that? The great part is. By your contributions, you get more cool free stuff and access to new and exclusive opportunities. Everything from Hidden podcast to free merch to free coaching what you can be a unicorn and get free coaching or win a trip to LA paid for by Us.
That sounds amazing. You wanna hug, don't you? So go and support Powerful ladies on Patreon today. Thank you. I like big books on Canada Lie. What do you want them to do, Karen? I want them to go and visit the powerful ladies.com. Mm-hmm. Go to Tools, click read and see all the awesome books that I love. Our guests.
Love you. Click on that picture. You can buy 'em. And guess what? Every time you buy a book there, you help support powerful ladies. What? I know what? Listen guys, if you love what we're doing, support us. Buy some books and powerful ladies, do it today. Support yourself. Support yourself and your brain and buy some books.
I should know. I don't read. I should read. And now Jordan is fired from the Power Police because this is a literacy promoting organization and we can't have her spreading that nonsense. I'm gonna read.

Related Episodes

Episode 239: HR Isn’t Paperwork. It’s People. | Khalilah T. Olokunola | People Lead HR Expert, Speaker, Changemaker

Episode 96: How to Be Confident and Create the Life You Want | Tawny Newsome | Actor, Musician, Podcaster

Episode 257: Faith Meets Tech: How She Built a Business on Purpose | Shennice Cleckley | Tech CEO & Coach

Visit her website lisaledezma.com

Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud

EntrepreneurshipBusinessFinances

Powerful Ladies

Episode 12: Fighting for Truth and The American Dream | Lisa Ledezma | Loan Officer & Advocate

Related Episodes

Episode 13: Glitter That's Good for the Planet | Sandy Zhao Ran Ji | Founder of EarthShine Glitter

Episode 11: Finding Your People for Big Dreams and Bold Moves | Madelyn, Jessica & Jamie | Miracle Sisters

Let’s Stay in Touch