Episode 45: Owning Your Money Story | Kara Stevens | Founder of The Frugal Feminista
Kara Stevens built The Frugal Feminista to give women, especially women of color, the tools, confidence, and strategies to take control of their finances. As a coach, speaker, consultant, and author of Unmasking the Strong Black Woman, The Happy Finances Challenge, and Relationship With Money, she blends financial literacy with emotional intelligence to help her audience heal their relationship with money. Kara shares how growing up in Queens shaped her perspective, why she left a career in education to become a full-time entrepreneur, and how she carved out a niche that merges feminism, financial empowerment, and community building. She talks about identifying the money beliefs that hold us back, creating strategies to overcome them, and why financial wellness is about so much more than numbers on a spreadsheet.
“Being able to strength and control your finances starts with being truthful about where you are and trying to let go of the feelings and emotions that are negative that shroud money.”
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Chapters
00:00 Meet Kara Stevens
04:10 Growing Up in Queens and Finding Her Voice
08:25 From Economics Student to Educator
12:15 The Birth of “Girl Get Your Life Together” Blog
17:20 Discovering the Gap in Financial Conversations for Women of Color
20:30 Leaving Education for Entrepreneurship
25:10 Building The Frugal Feminista Brand and Community
30:40 Writing Unmasking the Strong Black Woman
34:55 How Financial Wellness is a Learned Behavior
39:10 Strategies for Rewriting Your Money Story
44:20 Community-Level Solutions to Financial Inequity
48:35 Women Who Inspire Kara Stevens
53:10 Daily Practices for Confidence and Clarity
56:25 What’s Next for The Frugal Feminista
Being able to strengthen your finances and be in control of your finances starts with being truthful about where you are and trying to let go of the feelings and emotions that are negative, that shroud money.
That's Kara Stevens and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast. Where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something and the extraordinary to come and share their story. I hope that you'll be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Kara Stevens is the founder of The Frugal Feminista, a financial wellness business. She's a coach, consultant, speaker, and author. She travels the world speaking to women in businesses about financial literacy, the emotional relationship we all have with money, and how to be powerful with your finances. On this episode, Kara shares her entrepreneurial journey, how money became her niche, and the legacy she's creating for women and their money.
I was going through my, I LinkedIn and looking for amazing women. Specifically that we're named Kara, because Jordan and I had the idea of doing an entire month of powerful lady named Kara, and that's awesome, right? It's so silly and egotistical but fun. And I reached out to a couple and everybody wrote back and said, that sounds fun.
And you are the first one that we're having the chance to record with. So I am so excited. So let's begin with you introducing yourself and telling everyone what you're up to.
My name is Kara Stevens. I am founder of the Frugal Feminista, which is a financial wellness company that helps women heal their relationship with money so they can live life on their own terms.
And right now I just came back from a couple of speaking engagements for millennials and also for women based organizations and corporations, just helping them really understand their. Their motivations around their spending and how their parents influenced those ideas and how they can rewrite their money narratives.
So it's been a real great couple of weeks just traveling. I was in Boston and then in New York and now I'm back. I'm getting ready for October with some of my courses to help women really get clear about particular areas of their finances from budgeting which is like monthly and daily planning to long-term planning which is like retirement planning and in between for things that we really care about that are like five and 10 year goals.
How do we plan around those and still have fun and still not completely. Submit to delay gratification to the point where we're depriving ourselves in the President. So there's a lot of great things happening.
There are, and you're also an author?
Yes. Yes. I have authored three books. One is called Unmasking the Strong Black Woman, which is specifically helping black women heal their relationship with being overly strong and overly independent.
Because it has. Horrible implications for their finances because they become the a walking ATM for everybody. And other people's dreams are realized except there. So there's that book which was named a Top 10 Personal finance book by Black Enterprise a couple of months ago, which I'm really excited about.
Congratulations.
And yeah, thank you. I wrote it basically as a reminder to myself about some of the things that I had grown up, learning about money and hoping that women like me don't have to do the same thing and they can learn a little bit earlier and avoid some of my mistakes. And the other two books are Heal your Relationship with Money, which helps women, all women understand what their financial voice is, tap into it, and then create systems and structures that.
Strengthen and amplify that voice so they can have long-term peace with their money. And then the third book is called The Happy Finances Challenge, where the idea of having happy money or happy relationships with your money is still something that is not mainstream, or not something that all of us necessarily think about when we think about money.
And I wanted to challenge us to think about money in a happy, peaceful way. And so that's a six week challenge, which each day there's a particular area of your finances that I focus on and give you a little bit of life work, which is like a small task for you to complete so you can get stronger in that area.
From budgeting to emergency funds, to debt elimination, to credit scores, to financial boundaries, and to, if you decide that you want to start a business, how can you begin to tap into your entrepreneurial spirit? I love my books. Just because I know they were needed based on the community of women that I support as a coach.
And even when I go to those corporations as a consultant, when I get the feedback from women about the sessions, I always point them to one of those books as a next step resource.
No, it's great. Part of what attracted me to inviting you on the podcast was our shared passion for providing people with financial literacy and like ways to make life and money work at the same time.
Yeah, it's true. I think that part of being able to strengthen your finances and be in control of your finances starts with being truthful about where you are and trying to let go of the feelings and emotions that are negative, that shroud money, which are like you said, shame and guilt and avoidance and tapping into like where did those feelings come from?
Those aren't generated in a vacuum. They come from. Our cultural expectations for women about how we should respond to money. A lot of it comes to, and. Just a, a subliminal or implied disdain for women who submit to their desires, we're taught that we shouldn't want certain things, whether it be materialistic things or certain experiences.
And when we have that disconnect between what we desire and what people tell us, what we should want, there sometimes creates these feelings of ambivalence around money. Because money is often a tool that helps us get from that point, from point to what we desire to actually getting it. And so when we get mixed messages about those things, it, the easiest thing for us to do is to avoid it or to deny it, or to, play coy about it. When in fact, going directly to it and talking about it is the best way for you to, number one, free yourself and in the process for other women to do the same.
For sure. And it's also a topic that is so intersectional because it doesn't matter where you're living or your socioeconomic status or your gender or your race or your ethnicity, your, none of it matters, everyone at least in the US but I would argue probably the whole planet.
Has a relationship with money that most likely isn't suiting them and Right. Like I have some clients who are very successful and they've never had a budget.
And they just never had to because there's always enough to like. Hide like what they were or weren't doing. So no one needs to feel guilty about looking for a financial coach or really wanting to take this on.
To me it's the fastest access to your power is to, sort out money. 'cause it's such a, it's a resource. It's a tool. It's not, and it can really magnify what you are and aren't doing.
Exactly. And I would even with the idea maybe sometimes the super or the uber successful may have actually tapping in and actually digging in and unpacking what they actually own may be number one, a bit of reassurance that what they're doing is something they should continue to do.
Two, that they may be successful, but they may be on the brink of not being able to maintain their lifestyle because they don't have a budget. And I think that it's important for anyone that success doesn't mean that you keep all the money that you create, and I think that's part of the discussion too, that some people have wonderful ideas and they execute and then they leave the management of the money to other people when in fact, part of the, maintaining your success is the ability to.
At least be able to be smart about all aspects of the money I would call, ecosystem. You make it, you manage it, you reinvest it, you you review it and then you decide, what you use for fun, which you use for future investment, what you do to maybe give away if you wanna do that.
So you have more of a sense of fluency, a financial fluency with your money and just not one part of the cycle.
100%. I'm curious, how did you become the frugal feminist?
Oh, that's such a great question. I became a frugal feminista 'cause I had bills that I was not paying. And after I got out of college I wasn't paying my credit card bill and I never understood that every time the bill came, they wanted me to pay it back.
I was so confused about this process of credit cards. I would get one, I got charge cards in college and I would buy things with it, but this concept of having to repay was very new to me. And so I just ignored it. But then the balances kept on going up because late fees kept on being tacked on to the bill.
To the the credit card statement. And I remember being in my mom's house and my mom looked at me what's wrong with you Carol? I was like, what's wrong with me? What? I don't want them, I don't wanna give the money back. And she's you, that's not how you run.
That's not how life is. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, I gotta pay this back. Oh. It never really dawned on me. And the same thing was happening with my student loans. I thought it was just a mere suggestion that you had to pay back your student loans. I didn't think they really wanted their money back. And it was like a real come to, I guess God or Jesus or universe moment. 'cause I was like, wow. I got a lot of bills to pay them because I ran up, I have student loan bills and I have these credit card bills and I had to figure out a way to pay it back. And the one thing I did know about myself when I graduated from college was that I was smart.
I read a lot, I got a lot, I had these degrees, so I knew how to read and knew how to write papers. So I was like let me just go to the library and find a book on personal finance. And that's exactly what I did. So I went to the Queen's public library not too far from my house, and I found a book on the shelf called girl, get Your Money straight Or Girl Make Your Money, girl Get Your Money, right?
Which was by this author by Glen, the name of Glenda Bridgeforth. And I was just so fascinated that there was this whole. Sections of the library dedicated to money and personal finance. I would've never thought about that. 'cause in college, even though I was an econ minor, I was talking and I was a political science major.
I was talking about thorough political economies in some kind of esoteric, yeah. Way, but not oh, a budget. Oh. Like the more useful I felt it was the less academic I thought, and it was less prestigious. It was crazy. I totally get that as well. Was the actual whole world out there that helps us, manage your life.
I was like, I was fascinated. So I just kept on reading and reading. And then I started sharing and sharing with my girlfriends because I was like, God, did you know you had to pay your loans back? I didn't. Do you know what I mean? Did you know that these all the things you had to do.
And they were really they were really supportive. Like I would send my blog spot at that time was Carl, get You My, I the blog spot was called G Girl, get Your Life Together as a nod to this author. And I would just share my journey of I did not know I had to pay this money back. Here's how I'm doing it.
And I just became really fasting with the world of personal finance and I realized too that there weren't many 25-year-old African American women talking about money to 25-year-old African American other women. Yep. So I just started sharing what I knew and then also adding into things about Wow, I thought I would've been married by now.
Wow. I thought I had the dream job people talked about by now and I didn't. So that kind of where the Frugal Feminista came in was like I was talking about money for the Frugal side, but the Feminista side about what it meant to be a woman who was educated but still was still trying to find her way.
And then just morphed into other things where I was able to. Write about things related to personal finance and feminism, but ultimately speak about it, create courses around it, write books about it. But that's basically how it started, that I had to get out of student loan debt and credit card debt, and I had to figure it out one way or the other, and I decided to bring my friends and new friends from the site that grew with me.
It blows my mind that, as you mentioned, we will teach all these people about, global economics and macro microeconomics and finance, but most people have never. Been talked about, talk or have conversations about a budget. Like we don't know how to do our own finances.
True. Our own economy. And I'm like, how does this not get taught in high school for crying out loud? That's a, a side submission. I think I have. Like how do we get, how do we make this part of common Core, like this is so necessary.
Yeah. And the funny thing is that in my formal life I was a vice principal of a middle school and elementary school and a kindergarten teacher and a third and fourth grade teacher.
So I thought about this a lot, about the lack of financial literacy in the classroom from K to 12. And what I found that in the classroom you have to advocate for your kids. Advocate for your students. And what I would do when I was a third grade teacher, I would give my students piggy banks and give them a lesson on financial literacy.
Not just my, because of my personal my, my personal values. But on a larger scale, I think the pressure has to come from an administrative mind that understands that there's a deep connection between what you teach your kids in the classroom and what they have to deal with outside. So if they begin to make that line more seamless and more direct, you begin to see things that are more useful in the real world, and that can be applicable right away than things that are just really.
Learning for learning's sake. I think that the educational model has to catch up with the needs of the 21st century, because it wasn't built, with the needs of the 21st century when it was created, it was built in the agrarian society. So the needs are different. And I think once we begin to see that we can be disruptive, so to speak with the educational system and in being disruptive, being responsive and adaptive to what actually are our real world needs, and we really need financial literacy because, 200, 300 years ago, everyone lived off their land, lived off, you know what they created.
And it was more like maybe barter or less of a global economic, interdis interconnected society. But we have a complete different world with complete different skills and financial literacy is definitely one of them that is needed in order just to basically survive.
Yes. And I think knowing how to manage and maximize your money, it gives people so much space and freedom to maybe choose a career that they really love versus one just for money. Or to know that you can have a 401k, you can have a retirement plan and you can have savings no matter how much money you make. And like I, anything we can do to break the cycle of thinking like, life doesn't work unless you're a millionaire.
I, I think it's just so empowering for people because, I think you see it in the conversations that are happening across the US today, that there's definitely people feeling left out and forgotten and. This is a way to neutralize a lot of that because. You can create whatever you want, like with this as a foundation.
Absolutely. And I know this is like another conversation for another day, but I think helping students understand that they actually have youth on their side. So they don't have to do much now if they just put money away and find a hundred or a couple hundred dollars a year to put away and there's seven or they're 10.
They don't have to work too hard to do anything. They'll have lots of options by the time they're 21. And I think that is a easier message for us to articulate. And I think it's really important, especially as women who without sounding pandering, are supposed to be the more communicative gender.
We're supposed to be able to share more. And so let's share stuff that's actually like beneficial and useful long term. Investing strategies, saving strategies self-care strategies. Stretching a dollar strategies, those are the things that really create sisterhood and make you really feel connected to people because you're creating, financial intimacy, not, and sometimes financial intimacy is linked to your spouse.
But financial intimacy, they talk about friendships being the second marriage that you have, when you have a friendship breakup, it's just as bad as a divorce. So clearly our bonds with our with with our friends are just as important to our romantic ones. And so the financial intimacy piece can definitely be introduced into a sister circle or a girlfriend circle.
When we stop making all of these things like taboo and things you don't talk about, like it just breaks down the wall. It's no, look, we can all rise. Like we can all do better.
And then you sometimes think once you get to that conversation, when the conversation is very authentic and it's very fulfilling and just.
It just makes you feel so good. You think about wow, why didn't I do this earlier? The same way you think about your money, or what was I thinking before? What kind of conversations were we really having and missing out on this rich, this richness
Of seeing each other to grow and develop at the same time.
Yeah. It really adds that deep close connection that when I think every health study ever says, that's one, one way to adhere to your life, right? Yeah. So when you look back at who you were as a child and who you were through college, would people have predicted that you would be an author and have this business and be, everything that encompasses the frugal feminista?
I would say yes and no. I think that one thing about me is that I've always been a. I've always been a writer. I've always liked to write about things. I've always been observer of human behavior. So I almost thought that I was gonna be like Toni Morrison and write like the Great American novel.
But I guess I didn't, not yet, but I realized that. But in the process, I realized that writing about money, each of us has a story. And I find sometimes your real life stories are just as compelling and intriguing as fictional character stories. So I figured, I'll have time to write down, my Great American novel, but in between it's gonna be a personal finance.
Piece of work that can definitely help people tap into their story. So I would say yes, I think they always would've believed I would've been an author. Of some sort. In terms of a business, it depends. I think in the past, my previous bosses probably would say, I need to work for myself.
That is better this way for everybody. And it's not because I was ever rude or disrespectful, it was just that I had an idea of how things should go and that I didn't like red tape. Or waiting too long to try something out. And, but also I was very collaborative also was. A person I thought efficiently and really believed in what they were saying.
So sometimes when you do a larger organizations, it's very difficult to move things as quickly as you would like. So I would say in some kind of way, I would work for myself full-time in some kind of capacity or part-time because I just have a lot of, I have a clear passion for something and that I can't rest until I've maximized and exhausted all of the possibilities around it.
So I would say yes, I'm not sure I would've thought about money as my topic, but the more I was introduced to my own problems and wanting to solve them, it became easier for me to see that this is a great way to help other women solve their problems. Because I love community, I love helping. But I also realized too that my personality is best suited either to be a professor, which I get to do, teaching and stuff.
Or someone that uses their time differently. I don't think a nine to five is, was gonna work for me. And the more I got to be honest with myself, I realized that if I kept on pushing myself into that square peg and I was a circle, they say then I was gonna have a lot of problems.
I hear you.
Yeah. We share a lot of personality traits it seems. It's not just our name. Yeah. When you, people who are listening right now and they're like, okay, you do this cool thing, but I've got money issues right now. What are, three to five things or whatever number you want that we can leave listeners with right now that they can start taking action and control with their money?
Wow. I think that was a great thing. So I'll give a couple and I'll start first from the inside. I think it's first important for you to actually identify how you feel about money. And one of the best ways to do that is to brainstorm without judging yourself all of the beliefs you have about money.
So put the word money on a piece of paper and list it, brainstorm it. Just complete. Write down all the messages that you heard around money and messages that you believe around money. And then step back and take a look and see, are the majority of these beliefs positive? Are they, do they serve you in the person that you wanna be?
Do they find fault or victimhood? Do these beliefs keep you from maybe earning as much as you want to? Are these beliefs in conflict based with the person that you wanna be? And you'll find that. When you do this exercise, you'll find that there are gonna be some beliefs that actually have some truth to it, but the ha, but it's definitely a circumstantial and has to be within a particular it has to be based on certain circumstances.
So I would say that. Take those ideas. And then if you find a belief system that is particularly negative, I would say what's the positive out of this? And see how you can rewrite that negative belief into something positive. For example, growing up my mom was very much suspicious of men because of her relationship with my father, because he left us.
And so she taught me her only daughter that men should never be trusted at all, especially with your money, right? Yeah. I'm thanks mom. But then you want me on the other hand to get married by 30? What's going on? They said, which one do you want? So basically, if I would've combine the two, that means I'll marry a man that never trust when it comes to money.
That doesn't help, it doesn't work. That's not working for a healthy relationship. So I had to rewrite that belief and say, Hey, some men can't be trusted, but not all men, right? And I rewrote it some more to say the man that I marry, I will trust with my money, right? So you can begin to see that there's some benefit to some beliefs, even though they may be completely extreme and distorted, but you can flip it to make it a little bit more thoughtful and a little bit more rational.
So I would say start with that, right? So that's like a inner piece of work. But then two is to write down what are your money goals? What are your money goals and don't have too many because it can be overwhelming just to complete one really. So I would start with say, okay, what is one short term money goal that can be completed in the next three months?
What's a midterm goal in terms of maybe two years? And then what's a longer term goal which is like five to seven years, right? And then begin to honestly talk about with each of those goals, what are some of the things, number one, that are holding you back from completing them emotionally or even usually it's emotionally or in terms of financially.
Is it that you don't have enough money to do it? And what can go even deeper to say is that really true? Are we spending in a way that makes sense to align with this goal? What exactly are we doing? Are our actions aligning to this goal? So I would say that's a step two, step three. Is if you have any debt, which is connected to step two, if it, if you have any debt, get your numbers clear.
What are your debt numbers? How much debt do you have? And don't be ashamed of it because it's gonna be there if you're ashamed of it or not, so it's just better that you just know. And then the other money number you should get into to know is what is your money number for the month?
How much does it actually cost to live your life from your needs, your wants and your bills. Like how much does it cost for you to live your life? So your rent food, transportation and maybe like your frugal luxury of maybe if you like your Manny, your petty your your latte, your avocado toast, whatever it is, and then begin to see. What those numbers are. And you could begin to think about if you wanted to get toward those goals, what are some of the things that maybe you can reduce or eliminate short term to meet that goal, right? And I think once you begin to have more of a compassionate approach to looking at your money and holistic, rather than say, Hey, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be completely extreme and not, and de prop myself of all the things that I enjoy in order to reach this goal, you're probably not gonna do the goal.
You're not gonna reach it and you're gonna be even more frustrated and you may create this kind of, this cycle of spending or avoidance or whatever. It's that you do in general about with money, you are going to do it even more severely. So I would say that, and then I would say, if anything, create accountability for yourself as a step four.
And accountability can be with a financial friend that's a little bit ahead of you that you're willing to be coached around. But don't be resistant because people don't have time for that, right? Like you the asking for help. And you get it, or and if you need deeper help, you may have to invest in paying for a financial coach that can walk you through your emotions around money, your roadblocks around money, your money blocks.
So you could begin to see that maybe these blocks that you're having with your money now are really indicative of other things that you're having blocks with throughout your life. You know what I mean? So maybe it's this idea of avoidance. Maybe you just don't avoid when it comes to me money. Maybe you avoid when it comes to conflict with a loved one or when something is a difficult thing to, to digest, you just completely avoid it.
So you may have to work on avoidance in general, not just with your money, but avoidance can be easily taken care with money because it's something you can definitely control, yes. So I would help you. I would say that. And then five, I would say. Is to celebrate the small wins that come from any bit of progress that you've made.
So if you maybe opened your bill, before the deadline, even if it's an hour before the deadline, good for you. You know what I mean? Because before you weren't even paying attention. So I would acknowledge the small progress and the small wins that you have so you can feel motivated to do a little bit more next time.
Yeah, I think those are all great steps. I'm really struck by the, you don't, until you start looking at it, you don't realize how many emotions and feelings are put onto even the word money. It talks so much about, how we were raised. It talks to what we're afraid of. It's, it talks to what we're hopeful for, right?
And it, unpacking that conversation with people I think is fascinating. And, really just getting people to even look at. What do you think you are or aren't worth and how does it show up in how you. Handle money.
I agree. I think that from my experience growing up, my hurdle is having to teach myself that I don't have to wait any longer.
'cause I was taught, even though I got a into credit card, that was a small part of my money story. The larger part of my money story, that was because I got outta my mom's house and I was in college. But the larger part of the roots of my financial identity. We're rooted in deprivation.
Yeah.
Because I was taught, because my father left, that the world is unpredictable. That everything is risky, and the best thing for you to do is to stay safe. And it seems though, no matter how much education, and no matter how prepared you are, you'll never know there's not, there's nothing that can be guaranteed.
So I learned to save, if I could spend, if I could make $10, I would probably save 12. You know what I mean? If I could, yeah. Because I was like, oh my God, like the world is a scary place and no matter how good I am, it doesn't matter. And so I had that mentality. So I know for myself that I, when I'm getting stressed out, that I may be triggered back to that place, but I'm aware of that trigger so I can walk myself through Cara, number one, you've done X, Y, and Z.
This is your net worth. I actually read the numbers to myself. I'm like, I have this much money, so please stop. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Or so I know that, and I think for anyone that, gets themselves into those situations where whether it be the other side where I can do whatever I want, you need to check your account and say actually I can't, not today.
You know what I mean? Because the money is telling me that I can't do it now, but if I plan and execute my plan of savings, I'll be able to. For people who are deprived, there's one way to approach it, but the people who have been extremely excessive with their spending to a point of being, creating financial chaos in their lives, that even though the strategy is the same, to think about it, how we approach it will be different in terms of addressing the issue.
100%. In addition to running Powerful Ladies, I I'm a consultant and coach for businesses for life and for money, and. I see huge correlations between money and time and how people feel about it and how we treat it. And I really love how you shared that there are people who are extreme savers and have a lot of guilt in spending or in, planning ahead.
And there are people who have the opposite end where it's all spend. And what I think is beautiful about really getting a hold of your finances and a budget as well as your calendar is that you can stop living in the past or in the present and live right now.
I think that's powerful.
One of my favorite authors is Jamaica Kincaid. She's like a really fierce writer. And I saw her speak a couple of weeks ago and she was talking about one of the main characters in her novels is time, and she's always talking about the tyranny of time and how there's, when you're a kid, there always seems to be so much damn time.
Yeah. And, minutes just seem like hours, but when you're an adult, everything seems to just go by so quickly. And in the con, in the construct or in the context of money I guess you would find people who, who tend to deprive themselves of money, also may find themselves fighting with time, like there's never enough time to get anything done.
They may underestimate how much it takes to get something done because they underestimate or withhold so much within their own lives that they project or use that same lens when thinking about time as well. And that sometimes they don't realize that what they're looking for in a lot of ways isn't money.
I think that they're looking for time, but not realizing it, that they could buy time back since they already have so much money by outsourcing things or yes, you going to classes or expediting the process of learning something rather than having this scarcity approach that, number one, I have to do it by myself.
Number two, that there's no one else that can do it better than I could. And number three, that this idea of. You can't trust people to help you do it. And on the other hand, the flip side with people who just are just like, woo, everybody life is a party. You know what I mean?
That time slips away from them, because they overestimate how much they really have when they haven't really actually budgeted literally the word budgeting time. For things that matter or four things that are most important, it seems like everything's important and they spend on everything as a priority.
When it really, if they step back and see what exactly their values are, they'll be able to align their spending and their time with it.
Completely. And what I didn't expect when I started really buckling down with my budget and having a longer term plan with it all is how much freedom I got because, I am definitely more of a nerd than a free spirit.
And so I didn't have an issue with having a plan and doing it and having the spreadsheet, but then I would still feel guilty when I would go shopping or when I would do something that wasn't, the necessities. Because I always knew that I wasn't taking care of something else and should be putting that money there.
But once everything had its bucket or its sell in the spreadsheet, I suddenly didn't feel guilty about doing things that I, had fun with or had pleasure from because I knew everything else was taken care of that allowed me to check the responsible box.
And I feel that we a kindred spirit when it comes to that.
And I think for people who identify as being responsible, you can also add one of your responsibilities in life is to have fun, right? So you are like I'm being really responsible if I don't splurge with for $50 because I budgeted for it. Do you know what I mean? Yes. So all the things that you take as necessities being the things that seem very serious, that seem, would it consider My mom would probably that's just frivolous. I'm like, mom, fun is not frivolous. It's a necessity. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Like laughter's a necessity. Because it's not, they talk about this, these things that can be measured, the things that can't be measured sometimes should be measured.
Like how happy are you? You know what I mean? And I think that yeah, if you are the responsible of the responsible breed, like yourself and me, I think that you should see having fun and consistent and responsible splurging as one of your duties to do, in life. On a monthly basis.
Yes. When you go and you're speaking in front of a group or you're doing one of your courses, what is your favorite part that you get out of those experiences?
To be honest, two parts. The end, like sometimes and I'll say it in this way, one is sometimes I put a lot of pressure on myself to make everything perfect. And so when I'm able to execute and have people satisfied, that makes me happy. So that's one part. But then also because I'm a teacher, I went to Columbia for teaching and organizational leadership, so I love to teach and so I like when I create activities that get people thinking and reflecting on themselves and feeling like a lifelong learner.
I like to. Have a community of lifelong learners who are going to apply their knowledge. I like that part. Yes. And I like joking around too. Like I am a serious person, but I try to be myself as well, which, I like to throw in jokes here and there, especially when I have a story that really connects to it.
Or I can bring out someone else to share their own story so we can make take the conversation to a place where we've removed that mask and we're able to really dig into the work so we can really get a lot out of it.
No, completely. There's, it's, it's real life, all the things that we're talking about.
So real life has humor. Real life has us being like embarrassed and looking silly. And real life has, it, it has all the moments, the dark and the hilarious. It, I think it, it breaks through that shell because people really are afraid of money. They're really afraid of having a budget. And so I think anything we can do to tell everybody it's okay, like having a budget. Once you cross over, you're okay. We're still having fun. We're actually having more fun. There's no guilt anymore. And like you can do it too. You don't have to be responsible or call yourself a nerd to, to get it right.
I part my journey into financial literacy came from my boyfriend and I taking a Dave Ramsey course. And my boyfriend is super free spirit and I'm super nerd. And I went into the course being like, I got this, I have a savings account, I have a 401k, like I'm doing this for him. And then we got there and within 30 seconds I was smacked with all the things that I'm not doing.
And I was like, okay, I'm gonna put my ego aside. I'm gonna shut up and sit down. And there really were things that all of us, each of us had to learn to really get the whole picture. So I never thought that, you think about a financial planner, but really there's so much power in having a financial coach.
'cause as you said, it's more than numbers in a spreadsheet. It's getting what's underneath. It's looking at what your goals and your dreams are. Like you probably know people. Deeper who you've worked with coaching than you would've known otherwise because everything comes up when you're talking about somebody's financial plans.
Absolutely. One of my clients it was interesting, she moved literally across the world to be away from her mother, because of her upbringing. And then we looked at how she works with her money. She has the same kind of distance she puts between herself and things, the same kind of distance she puts between herself and people.
And then she wonders why she's so lonely. Yes. And I was like maybe the reason we have to trace back to how do you deal with a conflict that creates a lot of discomfort for you, what do you do? You run away, like far away. Like she actually enlisted, I think in the Army or the Marines or something and is in Afghanistan.
She's from Ohio, so and rather than talking to her mom about some of the things that she may have may have hurt her or traumatized her growing up, she decided to leave and leave a lot of things behind. And what, when we got to that point of breaking that down she was able to free herself from a lot of things and get to the, getting her out of debt in a couple of weeks because it wasn't it was the idea of being able to be open and to confront her feelings that was keeping her from what allowed her to begin to do the healing process with her money and to free herself from now.
Feeling that she had to run from things instead of deciding that if she wants to go someplace she can of her own volition. It was a very powerful moment because she cried. And a lot of times once you get those tears, you know that there's a breakthrough and then the money, budgeting and debt management, it becomes second nature because that really wasn't the issue.
Yeah.
And I feel very honored and humbled when I'm able to support that kind of growth during my sessions. And I think that financial coaching, and I've had it with myself, I've had a financial coach help me get through this idea of the scarcity mindset that I grew up with, because I knew that even though.
I was able to do all the numbers in the spreadsheets and on paper it looked good because I was the saver. I knew that there was something not quite right with the guilt and the shame, yeah. And the withholding. And so once I got that under wraps, I've been able to solidify my identity financially as someone that knows how to enjoy money, but knows how to save money, knows how my emotions are.
I can manage my emotions around other areas of my life in addition to money, and that I can have a positive or a healthy approach to managing my emotions when I feel stressed or when I feel discouraged or when I feel happy. You know what I mean? Or when I feel uncertain. And I think pla when you are able to do that and see bene and to see the impact of that with your money you are in a great place to thrive in other areas of your life.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's how you do one thing is how you do them all.
Yeah. Yeah. I used to never think that, but I think it's true. You'll begin to connect the dots. I'm like, oh, wow. And once you fix that area of wow, I tend to overreact, or I tend to hide, or I tend to lash out, or I tend to overindulge or I, and you realize that maybe it's in food, maybe it's in sex, maybe it's in drinking.
Maybe it's, in work, maybe it's in perfectionism and then, and it's in money. Comma.
People get so excited when they have a breakthrough in one of these big things that cause a shift where they're like, okay, so can we talk about everything else now? And I'm like yes.
We can start expanding it. No one. So far, every client I've had ends up adding on one of the other buckets that they didn't think that they wanted.
Yeah. I found that too. Oh, can we start talking about, whatever it is. And I'm like, sure. Because I know that after our sessions together, you'll have a toolkit to help you with many of lives disappointments and also excitements in a way that works for you or works for them.
Yeah. How amazing is it that once you have once you're in charge of your money versus it in charge of you, that you get to choose to help people, you get to choose to give it away if you want to.
Yeah. I think that for me I find it to be extremely rewarding because there's some things that you don't realize that you're good at until you realize that other people are struggling and need your support around.
And that I know for myself that I'll. My financial situation will only get better the more I get better. And being in a position to confidently know that is gives me such freedom to explore other parts and to support other people and getting them to that point too. Because you don't, like I said, you don't really realize that it is a mindset piece, but also I did the work, this isn't just didn't come naturally.
I had to I paid my therapy bills. I paid 'em on time, I paid out of network. I paid out of network because it was that important. And I, and I got a debt doing all the things I had to do. So I'm on the other side of financial the financial coin when it comes to not having.
And now it's just a matter of appreciating what I have and working and building towards what I really want and doing the work to do it because there's one part to get out of debt. But then there's the other part about building wealth. Which is another conversation. And then another piece of that is if you wanna do it through entrepreneurship, which is a different dream in of itself.
Yep. And I heard did I read correctly that you got out of debt in like an incredible amount of time?
Yeah. So the last 40 K was in two years of my student loan debt. And that was just, it was a beast. But I had already been in two more sets of debt before that. So I had gotten better at getting out of that debt and I was making more money so it became easier for me to avoid.
It was easy for me to avoid lifestyle inflation, so I could use the extra money to pay off my debt. And also. I was, by that time I had started investing as well. So I had used some money that I had invested over the past couple years to pay some of it down. And I had used some of the student loan money that was extra from the payment because I had received a scholarship, I invested that money.
So I was able to use some of that money on top of, the, in, on top of the investments that were accrued on it. To pay some of the money back. In addition to like doing all types of side hustles, eating my, bringing my lunch to work. I had, I was a I was a Mickey Mouse character at birthday parties.
I was not playing. Yeah. So I definitely by that time felt confident in my ability to eliminate the debt, and so I did, and I knew that it was a temporary situation and it was even more temporary, the more temporary I made it, you know what I mean?
Yeah, it's amazing when you make it into a game.
Like you're like, no, we're winning this and I'll do anything to make it happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jesse. I love that idea.
Yeah. No, you have to. Like it Plus like, when you make it a game, there's something about it that separates it from like whatever emotional feelings you're, you have about the money and the debt and the guilt and whatever else gets wrapped into it.
'cause games are fun and games like Exactly. You wanna play with other people.
It's true. Yeah, absolutely. It changes the energy completely. It creates a higher, more playful vibration. And you like to win games and then you don't feel, and when you lose a part of it, then you try and play again.
Yeah. You try and get up and play again.
Jesse teases me because whenever I get into a Lyft or an Uber, I'm always like talking to the drivers, like, how long have you been doing this? Do you like it? And Oh, me too. I am just curious, like obviously I have a podcast where I interview people, so I'm curious about people and there's one night we got in and this woman goes, I'm doing this because I took Dave Ramsey and I'm getting outta debt.
And I was like, yes. So we stayed in the car, like we got to our location. We kept talking because she said these she works full-time and then she was driving nights and weekends, like more hours than she was working her full-time job. 'Cause she's no, we're getting, we're paying this off.
And then I am never driving a car ever again. I hear her, but it was like, no, it's true. The hustle. It was so great. So when you received a message on LinkedIn from this crazy stranger that shared your name and was like, you should be on The Powerful Ladies Podcast. What did you think? And in general, and then what did you think when you heard about something called Powerful Ladies?
I first felt, I was like, is this, did she make a mistake? Is her name really Kara? I was like, is this that was my first thing and I was like, is this really, and it's spelled with a K too. And I was like, really? I was like, okay, cool. And then when I saw the invitation, I was like, of course I would because, I think it's cool to be considered a powerful woman. I don't walk around thinking that I'm powerful, but then when you look at stuff that I've done, I was like yeah, that's pretty powerful. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that it's important that we name ourselves the way we want to name ourselves as women, and to be a part of a community and experience that allows us to share, our experiences and powerful doesn't need mean perfect. Which is great because I get to share like my, my, my ups and my downs my mistakes, my challenges, and my triumphs. I think it is an amazing platform to be a part of. And I think what you're doing is so important and I was stoked. Like I didn't, like when I actually filled out the the calendar, I was like, wow, I gotta wait two months for this, but it's worth it.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Yeah. So I was super stoked. I was very happy to be invited and now that we're having it, I'm really happy that I can do it and just share and hear and learn from you and hopefully inspire someone to do whatever it is they need to do to get their finances together.
For sure. You also brought up something I think is really interesting and that's like women and money in particular because. There's so much changing in women and subsegments of women and culturally, politically, all of it. And I've personally gone through different phases of my relationship with money.
For example, in my relationship, I used to be the breadwinner, like dominantly. And then when I started, became an entrepreneur, like those roles shifted and it was really interesting for me to suddenly not wanna spend any money because it wasn't mine.
And just
like how we don't realize how much some of the, we think that we've, at least, I thought I had moved on from some of these very traditional opinions about money and realized that I hadn't moved on from them.
They were just like hidden under, oh, I don't have to deal with that because I have my own money. And it's, there's so many different topics, the whole book you have about just African American women and money and how, being powerful and having money and being independent. What does that look like in different cultures and subsegments?
So I'd love to hear you go into that a little bit more about, specifically women and specifically different groups of women and like what money and finances means today.
I think that traditionally I can speak with some of the traditional conversations about women and money and the beliefs around them.
I know. There's depending on the socioeconomic status of certain women, some women grew up expecting that even if they went to college, that their ultimate job was to be a misses, and so they look to men as the breadwinner. They look to men as being better with money in the management.
So not just in the making of it, but in the management of it, despite all facts that show that women make most of the household decisions around, what's bought, what's not bought. And so I think that there's a disconnect between where the actual decision making is and the belief in who's the leader in the home.
So I think there's that traditional belief, even though there's still like this undercurrent that men don't know anything. Do you know what I mean? We know everything. We have to pretend that we don't know, which I think is another cultural belief that has to be revisited. Yep. 'Cause if you do know, then why pretend that you don't know.
That's one thing. But so I think that's in general, even with African American women whose entry into, belief around women and what they should do with money is a little bit different because I think African American women are raised in a more, in a belief that no one's gonna provide for you, you have to provide for yourself.
Yep.
And that you have to be overly independent to the point of making men a non-issue because it's, there's this belief that they can't be, they're not reliable. Not across the board, but the general raring of our girls. We say, Hey, no one's gonna do it for you. You have to do it for yourself.
You have to get your own. And I think that there's a lot of, in, in those subsets within African American community where women do find spouses that they care for, it's hard for them to learn how to be interdependent. Because there's this belief that you gotta do it yourself. And then that, that begs the question.
And if you can't, if you only wanna do it by yourself, then why don't you just be by yourself? Yeah. In certain ways. And so I think that how we deal with these beliefs, 'cause they're all limiting beliefs from the ones that believe that women aren't capable of managing money or shouldn't be interested in managing money, or shouldn't be interested in being breadwinners or at least earning as much.
I think we have to put them on the table and at least acknowledge that they exist. Yeah. So just the same way we talked about, the the, at the top of the show about having the word money in a circle and just brainstorming, we should talk about money and women, and then you can say money and upper class women, money and black women.
And then talk about all the beliefs and ideas that we have that have been influenced by our family members, of course, but also by culture, our American society, pop culture as well about what they think those roles should be. And then we share as individuals and also as communities say, to what extent does this create equity in our society?
To what extent is this if we have a feminist agenda, to what extent is this a feminist agenda? And even for women who aren't feminists per se but who have dealt with say, financial abuse in a relationship where it may not be someone beating you, but you have no means to capital or to money to do things that you need to do.
You have to consistently serve maybe as if you have two children in the house, the third child in the house to ask someone for something as an adult that you shouldn't have to ask for, right? Yeah. So I think that when we just begin to be completely. Open and reflective about what our society says, and then thinking about to what extent do these beliefs serve this group, this gender, and to, if it's not serving this gender, then who's it serving?
Yeah. Benefits from these beliefs. And then realizing if those beliefs continue to persist, how will we be impacted long term? Because the truth of the matter is that women live longer than men, and women leave the workforce to rear raise children. And for African American women and for women in general, they make 80 cents to the dollar white women, right?
And then it was African American, black women's equal payday, I think it was August August 12th, I think. Or it was at least August, and they make about 67 cents to the dollar. So we're struggling. Everyone's struggling. So understanding those statistics plus the. Conceptual, the stereotypes around the gender, around money and see there is a an alignment that we're getting less than we deserve because these beliefs make us seem as if we are less deserving.
And once we begin to compare and connect those dots, we can begin to rewrite those beliefs and create strategies around negotiation, around sharing about money to maybe insisting that if we're gonna be caretakers at home, that we get paid for it, so then we can create legislation and policies that support those new beliefs about where we stand in our society.
So that's just off the top of my head what I think. But I think it's first with unearthing, unpacking what they say about us and saying that we don't believe it, especially if it doesn't serve us. And then creating strategies, at the. At the individual level and at the community level to combat those.
And then asking at the legislative levels to begin to think about what it really means to have an equitable society for both genders.
Yeah. 'cause e each of those things that we believe they're there from a sense of protecting us and keeping us safe. If women don't need to wait on men and they can take care of themselves.
You're safer. Like you, you can make sure things are handled and you're not waiting on someone else. But at the same time, there's no room for someone to contribute to you and to be a partner and, creating that space. Yeah, there's a lot of like, how do you make sure that it's you're doing what's right and taking care of business, but at the same time leaving yourself open and vulnerable enough to.
To be in a partnership. It's a, there's a lot, there's a lot in all that,
right? Because men aren't necessarily the enemy. It's the idea that's the enemy. You know what I mean? So not every man is walking around saying, Hey, you're a woman. Here's 80 cents or here's 67 cents. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. But, but asking them to be mindful too, of the ways, the various and subtle ways that we teach girls that, they're valued less or the ways that we encourage men to take more, we can just ask them to be more mindful and ally in that respect.
Yeah. 100%. When you look at your life who are some of the powerful ladies that have inspired you?
My mom's really inspired me because just of it, it takes a lot a lot of a woman to, raise two kids by herself and pick up and leave from another country to come here and try and make it for her kids. Despite not having the support. I would definitely say her as a number one.
And I think they're also she was also a good non-example for some of the things I did not want to continue to do as an adult with my money. So I consider her. Perfect example of what to do and what I can do differently just from her experiences and her doing the best that she could with the information that she had.
So I would say her and I mentioned her at the top of the show too, Jamaica Kincaid. Who is a writer from Antigua. That's where my family is from. I like her 'cause she just does not care. Do you know what I mean about anything? Seems Yeah. And all of her writing is about her very and strongly ambivalent relationship with her mother and just how she just very open about things that are so taboo.
And that's why I like her. 'cause I don't think she cares 'cause she writes it all down. And she's gotten paid to write through her pain, which I love. And and I admire her. Meticulousness her attention to language and how she uses language to heal and also just to open things that shouldn't be open.
So I like that. I like her bravery. I think that just some of the women in the frug of feminist community too I don't know all of them by name of course, but the fact that they share their stories with me they invite me into their homes to coach them or to have a course, I really admire them for just saying, Hey, I need a change, and not being ashamed to go to do what it takes to make that change.
So I would say those three, and I also had a my. Third grade, my third grade teacher, Ms. Braun, told my mom to leave me alone and not make me do too much housework because I'll be able to be wealthy enough one day to pay someone to outsource, my house, my cleaning needs. And it sounds a little bit elitist, but what she was trying to do was let me be, yeah. Lemme find my way. And I appreciate Ms. Braun for, for having my back when I was eight.
Yeah. It sounds like she just saw what a powerful person you already were. Yeah.
So I guess so. So yeah I, those are definitely women I admire or I'm thankful for.
And of course Michelle Obama, but I feel like that's just like a given, so I'm not gonna even go there.
Oh. You can say her name as much as you want. Yeah. The number of times she comes up and Oprah and, yes. I think the next one that we talk about all the time is Elizabeth who wrote, eat, pray, love. Oh yes. Those are three like they're just getting dedicated, I think cult pages eventually on Powerful Ladies for what they're doing.
Yeah, they should. And then Beyonce should, though I do blame Destiny's Child a little bit for why I don't like to spend money that's not mine. But no, it's it's for people who are. Being awesome and inspiring us and reminding us what's possible. Like we should just say their names as much as we can.
'cause they deserve it.
Definitely. Thank you. I agree. Completely agree.
We ask everyone on the show where they put themselves on the powerful lady scale, zero being average, everyday human, and 10 being super powerful lady. Where do you feel today and where do you feel on average?
That's a great question.
I think today because. I felt pretty rockstar because I was able to get my daughter into a gym slash swim class, and she enjoyed it. Then we were able to play afterwards. I felt my momming was like on 10 today. I was like, oh my God, I did a great thing for her. I got a lot of work done. And in general I felt positive.
About what I was doing. So I would say today I was a nine slash 9.5.
I like it.
Yeah. And on the, even the days where I feel disappointed or discouraged, I get a rejection. I don't feel, I don't feel what I'm doing is a mistake. I just feel like I just have to keep going. So I would say my average power feeling is between a 7.5 and an 8.5, but I don't think it dips past a five.
All right. I like it.
Yeah.
And then as we're wrapping up. Two last questions. Yeah. One is how can people get ahold of you, follow you? What can they do next to support you or take your next course?
Oh, great. You can come to my site the Frugal Feminista and Under courses, under trainings, I'm sorry.
There's a list of trainings that I have available, but I'm making new ones soon for specifically entrepreneurs who need to get their personal finances in order because I've seen so many of us lose sight of our dreams because our personal finances are not where they need to be, and we hold off in becoming the entrepreneurs that we know we can be.
And so just you can follow me on Frugal Feminista on Instagram, frugal Feminista on Twitter and on my Facebook group. It's the Happy Finances community. You can find it, it's a closed group and the Facebook page is the Frugal Feminista. And I think too, that. In terms of getting a free gift I have a five day financial reset plan, which I'll leave the link for you, Kara.
So women can download, it's like a five day great way to begin to think about your money in ways that you may have never thought about. And I offer that as a, just a taste of what working with me could possibly be as a coach. And also have coaching services for those of you that really need to get in touch with your mindset, understand what your money blocks are and what tho how those money blocks are actually keeping you from the finances that you know that you can have.
And also the dreams that fund those fi fund those those beliefs and fund those dreams that you want to actually have.
Awesome. Yes. We'll have all of that all the direct links and everything in our show notes and the link to your free gift as well. And then as we're wrapping up today, what would you like to leave the audience with?
I think I wanna leave them with a sense of hope. That when it comes to finances, it's something that is a learned behavior. It's not something that you're automatically born with and all of a sudden there are those that have, and those that don't have, when it comes to that acumen, it's the idea that if you try to do it, even if you don't, you are not doing it well.
At first it's okay 'cause it's new, so I think approaching any type of challenge or searching for a solution, having a sense of like play and a sense of wonder and a sense of I'm gonna get it eventually will help you stick with your goal. And I guess I think that's helps me, especially when I'm still building and growing the frugal Feminista.
And I don't get it right the first time. I have to remind myself, Hey I'm a work in progress. It's all a work in progress, but I'm making moves and that's the most important thing.
I love it. It has been such a pleasure to get to know you on this session. I'm so thankful that you are a guest to me and to Powerful Ladies and that my LinkedIn stalking worked, and I just love what you're up to and I'm so glad that we've connected and can share you with the Powerful Ladies community.
So thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Kara, for having me and your idea for stalking towers is really good. Perfect.
I am so happy that Kara was a yes to my cold call LinkedIn message. I love the work she's doing. I love the lightness she brings to such a complex and important topic that impacts everyone's everyday life. Truly, if you can make one game changing impact to your life this year, it is getting your finances in order and working with the budget.
Like I can't even explain how much power it will give you once you feel that part of your life is in integrity and that you're on the ball. There are so many parallels to how she's approaching Frugal Feminista to what we're doing here at Powerful Ladies. From building a community to courses and education and coaching, I'm honored to have had her on the podcast, and I look forward to finding more ways for us to support and share each other's message as we go forward.
To connect, support and follow, Kara, you can visit the frugal feminista.com and follow her on Instagram and Twitter at frugal feminista. On the show notes on our website, the powerful ladies.com, we'll have all the spellings, additional ways to connect with her and more. If you'd like to support the work that we're doing here at Powerful Ladies, there's a couple of ways you can do that.
Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave a review on any of these platforms. Share the show with all the powerful ladies and gentlemen in your life. Join our Patreon account. Check out the website, the powerful ladies.com. To hear more inspiring stories.
Get practical tools to be your most powerful. Get 15% off your first order in the Powerful Ladies Shop. Or donate to the Powerful Ladies one Day of Giving campaign, and of course, follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies for show notes and to get the links to the books, podcasts, and people we talk about.
Go to the powerful ladies.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. She's one of the first female audio engineers in the podcasting world, if not the first. And she also happens to be the best. We're very lucky to have her. She's a powerful lady in her own right, in addition to taking over the podcasting world.
She's a singer songwriter working on her next album, and she's one of my sisters. So it's amazing to be creating this with her, and I'm so thankful that she finds time in her crazy busy schedule to make this happen. It's a testament to her belief in what we're creating through Powerful Ladies, and I'm honored that she shares my vision.
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. Until then. I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
