Episode 92: Fighting Food Apartheid and Building Food Sovereignty | Cheryl Whilby | Soul Fire Farm
Cheryl Whilby is the Administrative Program Manager at Soul Fire Farm and Market Manager at the Schenectady Farmers Market. She’s part of a movement to end food apartheid and reclaim food sovereignty through Afro-Indigenous farming practices, community education, and land justice. At Soul Fire Farm, Cheryl helps lead programs that create direct access to fresh, healthy food for marginalized communities, from free CSA shares through their solidarity model to building 40 backyard gardens during the pandemic. She shares how farming connects to racial and economic justice, why food sovereignty is critical for public health, and the steps we can all take to make our local food systems more equitable. Her story is a reminder that food is more than nourishment. It’s culture, freedom, and a pathway to resilience.
“The land was the scene of the crime, but it was not our oppressor. Being on the land is healing. It’s therapeutic. It’s where we’re meant to be.”
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Meet Cheryl Whilby
03:15 How Soul Fire Farm Began
07:40 Understanding Food Apartheid vs. Food Deserts
11:20 Building 40 Backyard Gardens During the Pandemic
15:00 The Solidarity CSA Model
19:15 Afro-Indigenous Farming Practices
23:30 Training the Next Generation of Farmers
27:50 Food Justice and Public Health
32:10 The Role of Community in Food Sovereignty
36:45 How to Support Equitable Food Systems
41:00 Cheryl’s Vision for the Future of Food Access
The land was the scene of the crime, but it was not our oppressor. Mm-hmm. And we really have to be able to feel that we can come back to the land because being on the land is healing, it's therapeutic. It's where we're meant to be and we shouldn't be afraid to be there that Cheryl will be.
And this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something, and the extraordinary to come and share their story. I hope that you'll be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
I'm obsessed with documentaries about food organic agriculture. Poly farming soil, et cetera. Streaming services cannot make enough documentaries on those topics to keep up with how quickly I devour them. That's why for ages of been following Soul Fire Farm on Instagram, created by a fellow Clark University alumnus.
Soul Fire Farm is a women, women-owned, Afro indigenous educational farm that is feeding, educating, immersing, and changing their community. In this episode, I am honored to have Cheryl Wilby, the administrative program manager at Soul Fire Farm, and the market manager for the Schenectady Farmers Market. So we can talk all things food, farming, and how fruit, veg and property ownership are critical to transforming equality in America.
All that and so much more coming up. But first, if you're interested in discovering what possibilities and businesses are available for you to create and to live your most fulfilling life, please visit the powerful ladies.com/coaching and sign up for a free coaching consultation with me. There is no reason to wait another day to not be living your best life when you instead could be running at full speed towards your wildest dreams today.
Well, I am really excited you're here. Welcome to the Powerful Ladies Podcast. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm really excited to be here. Yes. Let's start, introduce yourself to everyone listening and where you work as well.
Sure. My name is Cheryl Wilby and I'm the administrative program manager at, so Fire Farm as well as the, uh, market manager at the Schenectady Green Market.
So I was saying that I've been following Soul Fire Farm for a long time on Instagram. Um, I actually went to the same college as Leah did. Oh, cool. Um, yeah. Uh, so, um, we definitely were in the same classes together at times, so, um, I think it's really interesting like what has been happening there, but most people don't know what Soul Fire Farm is, so let's tell everybody what it is and what makes it special.
Sure. So SoFi Farm is a Afro indigenous educational farm out in Grafton, New York. We were founded, uh, in 2006 by our co-founders, Leah Penman and Jonah Vitali Wolf. Uh, the farm was really. Started out of a need that was expressed by the community that Leah and Jonah were living in at the town at the time, the South end of Albany, uh, which is considered a food desert, uh, which we prefer to use the term food apartheid, uh, which, uh, comes from our, uh, board member Karen Washington, where we're pretty much recognizing the fact that using the term food desert suggests that this is something that's naturally occurring, this system where some people, particularly low income folks of color, are living in areas with limited access to fresh fruits and vegetables and the nearest grocery stores over a mile away using the.
The term, uh, food apartheid really, uh, speaks to the fact that this is something that humans made. It's mm-hmm. Uh, a system where some people have so much and others have so little, but using the term food apartheid and recognizing that this is a system that is human made also gives us hope, uh, because if it's something that we created, it's also something that we can fix.
Uh, so. The, uh, fact that there's folks living in under food apartheid in the south end of Albany and other communities in Albany, uh, was why Leah and Jonah created this farm so that they could feed the people in their community, um, but also in surrounding communities. So they started out with a doorstep delivery program.
Our CSA share community supported agriculture. Where they were delivering fresh fruits and vegetables to people living in these communities, um, and making sure that our people just have access to this life-giving food. And from there we've expanded to so many other things. We have our educational programming where we have, uh, bipoc folk, black indigenous person of color coming to the land, learning how to farm and how to be food justice leaders within their own communities.
Um, we're also teaching folks about natural building and you know, how to make their own homes for themselves and their communities from things that you can find on the land like Adobe and Clay, and all these amazing tools that are really important to be a successful, a successful farmer, and, um, to be able to build for yourself and for your community.
So it's really, um. An amazing place and I'm so fortunate to be working with this team.
Is your background in agriculture or food or did you, um, come at it from a different perspective and this is kind of where you've ended up?
Yeah, so. Growing up, I always thought that I was going to be a marine biologist, um, if you could believe it.
And, um, like through my high school career, that shifted to me wanting to be, uh, a veterinarian. And that's what I pursued in college. I was on the pre-vet track and thought that this was the life for me. And then I studied abroad, my senior year of college, um, in Newport, Shahi in, uh, the uk. And that's when I was really introduced to, uh, sustainable agriculture and organic farming.
And that's when it really clicked for me that, you know what, this is what I want to be doing. Um, especially in courses where we're talking specifically about, uh, food insecurity and how that's, um, really. Disproportionately impacting communities of color. Mm-hmm. And I was like, this is what I need to be doing.
This is my calling. And after completing my, um, undergraduate career, I ended up pursuing my master's in organic farming and food production systems in the UK because I loved it there so much. Um, yeah. And then, um, after that I came to, uh, Western Massachusetts to work on a farm for a bit because even though I knew that I didn't necessarily want to be a farmer, I knew that it was important for me to know what it's like to be a farmer, know what are the issues that farmers are going through.
Um, so that was a part of my learning experience on being on that farm for a year. And then I moved to the capital region, um, where I was heavily, uh, involved with our, our food system. Um, I worked at another nonprofit where I was doing, um. Food recovery. I was, uh, working with farms in the area to get any surplus crops or crops that didn't necessarily meet certain standards to be on the shelves in the grocery store and getting that to the people who really needed, um, food pantries, soup kitchens, and shelters.
And I was also coordinating the outreach, um, for that organization, um, particularly to, um, low income communities so that they know about the services that we offer. Um, and while I was at this job, I was reading up more about, you know, are there like any black led organizations in the area that's really doing this work?
Um, specifically working to, um, help black and brown farmers. Really what I wanted to hone in on. Mm-hmm. And I ended up finding so far from, they just kept popping up in my search and I was like, all right, I need to, I need to hook up with these people somehow. Mm-hmm. Um, at the time there wasn't any physicians available.
Um, but I waited two, three years and eventually there was an opportunity for me on the farm. Um, during that time of waiting, I was able to find a part-time position, um, working as the manager at the Schenectady Green Market, which I'm still working at, and I love it as well. Um, but yeah, I just, I'm always looking for these opportunities to just be really involved in our local food system and making it better, um, particularly for our black and brown
communities.
Uh,
what I love about what you shared about your story so far and what Soul Fire Farm represents is that there's so many different topics overlapping, you know, I have lots of conversations with people about, we care about all of these different things and we're always looking for how do we put as many of them together as possible?
And the fact that you guys have sustainability, you have housing, you have food, um, you have, you know, going after how do we make food equal or it hasn't been equal, uh, education and training, um, the environment, like all of these factors are built into the system. How, how do you guys prioritize where your focus is or how do you keep adding more into this amazing space that's been created?
I.
I would say that our priority is definitely always going to be training up the next generation of black and brown farmers. Mm-hmm. Um, it's really sad when you think about the fact that less than 2% of the farmland, um, in this country is owned by black folks. Mm-hmm. 98% is owned by white, particularly male farmers.
Mm-hmm. Um, just like hearing those numbers is just really like, it, it really shows how important the work that we're doing is like. Mm-hmm. At the end of the day, we really wanna see more black and brown farmers owning their own land and, um, really having a, say a stake in our, our food system. Um mm-hmm.
And a lot of that starts with, you know, educating our people, you know, um, I think sometimes there's. People feel that, um, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of sadness and history associated with black and brown folks on this land on, in the United States. When you think about slavery and you think about, um, indigenous folks having their land stolen and their, them being driven off their lands like the land was.
The scene of the crime, but it was not our oppressor. Mm-hmm. And we really have to be able to feel that we can come back to the land because being on the land is healing. It's therapeutic. It's where we're meant to be, and we shouldn't be afraid to be there. So a lot of our programming on the farm, um, where we're teaching folks how to farm, be food justice leaders is also incorporating that spiritual element of mm-hmm.
Wanting to be, and feeling like you should be connected to the land that you belong there. Um, we always want people to walk away with that feeling, and that's a priority for us.
Yeah. Uh, um, there's so many ways for mindfulness to be embedded right into farming mm-hmm. And healing. Um, I'm currently taking a.
So, uh, the first version of like a neurobiology yoga teacher training, and it's a lot about using the brain science and, and what activities besides yoga can help people heal from trauma and the generational trauma or whatever that might be. Um, you know, everything I can see from social media I know usually makes it look rosier than it is, but it looks like you got, there's such incredible reception to what's happening at Soul Fire Farm, and I love seeing the pictures of how excited the kids are.
Right. When they get to like, be in the dirt and, and like, you know, this is, I grew this, I remember growing up there was a big scandal in standardized testing, um mm-hmm. In, uh, urban versus non-urban students and how a lot of the urban students were failing. And there were questions on the test, like, where do apples come from?
And they'd be multiple choice and one would say trees and then also say grocery store and all the urban kids would circle. Grocery store 'cause that's where you got it. Mm-hmm. And I mean, in the US in general, there's a huge disconnect right? Between where our food comes from. Um. You know, whenever you get somebody on a farm and you see it, it's, I think it's life changing.
How does it occur for you? Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I would totally agree with that statement. Like it's been, it's been hard for us with COVID-19 not being able to have people on the land, especially our youth programming. Um, that was one of the favorite. Things for me was when like high schoolers and middle schoolers came out to the land to learn about the work that we're doing, but also to actually get their hands in the land to, you know, help us with harvesting or planting crops for the season.
Like the kids really enjoy that stuff and we're, we're also teaching them, you know, how to, um, preserve food and, you know, fermentation and things like that. Um, and all of these tools that are really important to provide for your family and for yourself, um, and not having that element on the farm has been really, really difficult for us this year.
Mm-hmm. But we did have a program called, uh, so far in the city this year where we've been going out into communities in Albany, Troy Schenectady, um, and building raised beds right in the backyards of our community members, which has been really exciting. Mm-hmm. It's, um. It really been amazing to see the response from our community.
Um, we originally set out to only build 10 of these raids beds, but once COVID-19 hit, there was just so many people reaching out, wanting to grow their own food because folks were afraid about like, what's gonna happen with the food supply chain? We wanna know that we can provide for our families. So we ended up building 40 community gardens.
Oh my goodness. That's awesome. And yeah, the response from community members and volunteers just showing up to help us with building these raised beds. Mm-hmm. 'cause we're a team of about seven people and we couldn't have done it all ourselves. So, um, we really appreciate the community support and it was really a tremendous program this year.
Mm-hmm.
For people who don't know, how bad is the, um. Food apartheid in the us Like from my understanding, it's impacting every city and suburban places as well. Um, do you know the scale of it so people can understand how, how bad it is and how important it's to be changing that? Yeah.
I mean, when I think about, uh, food apartheid, I think about the really the health issues associated mm-hmm.
With, um, our black and brown communities not having access to fresh fruits and vegetables. Um, when it's more convenient to just go to a McDonald's or a corner store and get a, these artificial fruit juices or chips and things like that, that aren't really going to nourish you mm-hmm. And make you feel like you can go on with your day and, um.
If you're doing activist work or you're an organizer, like if you don't have that nutritious food to be able to give you that energy to do that, um, it's really gonna have a negative impact on you and your family. Um, but I mean, speaking in, in the numbers or the statistics of it, I could say that, um, in a white neighborhood, you're gonna be about four times more likely to be near a grocery store than you are in a predominantly black and brown neighborhood.
Um, you're, and a, a lot of this has to do with, um, systems that have been around for a while now. Like when you think about, uh, systems like, uh, redlining mm-hmm. Which is a government system that basically makes it so that, um. It's harder for black and brown folks to be able to, uh, get, uh, bank loans and things like that, to be able to own land, have property, which is also how we know that is the main way that you gain wealth.
Mm-hmm. And intergenerational wealth as well. But these systems like redlining are also being used when it comes to a grocery store, determining whether or not they wanna have a chain in a, in a particular community. Um, so if you're living in a community that's outlined in red, um, which is a predominantly black and brown community, you are gonna be less likely to.
This option of a grocery store where you can get this nutritious food for your family, which is just really, really messed up. Mm-hmm. And, you know, where we're working at. So fire to make it so that our community members can have this food. Obviously we can't necessarily start our own grocery store right downtown Albany, but we can have this CSA share where we're giving this food to our community members from the farm.
Um, this year we actually changed our CSA model to model to be a solidarity share. Mm-hmm. Where we are giving, uh, fresh fruits and vegetables, uh, chicken eggs, uh, to our community members, totally free of charge. Um, and. This is really important for our communities members this year, especially with COVID-19.
Mm-hmm. Where we know that folks are losing their jobs and income is a little tight right now. Just having, knowing that you don't have to worry about where your food is coming from and how you are gonna provide for your family is a huge burden lift for a lot of people, you know? Mm-hmm.
Um, well, as you may mentioned, there's so many things rooted in owning land and property and, you know, housing or having a home.
Mm-hmm. But there's also so much, um, if you, if you chase down the levels of like not having access to this food, right. Like there's a double, uh, like double swords against the brown and black community because of that, you know, when you're mm-hmm. Some people I know are shocked at the impact that COVID-19 is having on people of color, and I was like, I'm not surprised.
They're like, what do you mean you're not surprised? I'm like, it's not, it has nothing to do with like a difference in, in, um, anything genetic. It has to do with the fact that there isn't access to. Proper healthcare. There's an access to proper food, and there's all these, essentially everything kind of came to the surface because of what COVID kind of reveals.
Mm-hmm. Underlying conditions, access to healthcare, who has money to have health insurance, all the things showed up. And, um, it's really unfortunate that it all comes back down to these two critical principles that you guys are working towards. Right. It's food and land. Mm-hmm. Because those two things can change everything for anybody.
Yep. That's absolutely true. Thank you so much for bringing that up. It well, it's, it's just, it's heartbreaking, you know, and, um. What, you know, this is what fires me up. I'm literally getting hot about to say this is like, I, it makes me so upset when, when, um, we discuss health and like, you know, supporting different communities, um, in the US from a political level and we're never actually getting down to what does help really look like.
Mm-hmm. Like what's, there's the things that actually trigger the help are usually so simple. Like the impact fruits and vegetables can have is so huge, but like an apple is so simple. It's not, we don't need an entire like subcommittee to figure it out. Mm-hmm. We don't even need billions of dollars. Yeah.
Like it's, I don't know why we keep trying to go, well, I guess I know why, but we keep trying to go that complicated way instead of just the really easy, obvious way. And people get surprised when you're like, why isn't it working? Yeah. Because you, we never got to the root of lander food.
Yeah. A lot of these, um, illnesses that our black and brown communities are experiencing, like diabetes and hypertension, hypertension are really diet related illnesses.
And if we just gave people the choice, the option to be able to choose an apple over mm-hmm. Chips, like, um, that would make such a difference for our community members. But if you don't have that option, then you just gotta do whatever's convenient for you at the time. Mm-hmm. And it's not always the best option for
you.
Yeah. And, and there's so many, so many layers even to food choices, right? There's decision fatigue. Mm-hmm. There's having access to pay for it. Like, there's so many things that get layered on, um, to our communities of color that don't even get cons factored in that are just mm-hmm. Everything's harder, you're exhausted, which means it's just harder to make the, to make, yeah.
A choice of change versus the choice of like, the path of least resistance, right?
Mm-hmm.
It's decision fatigue at a generational scale versus a one day in the life scale.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. What, what makes you proud of the work that you're doing and the work that you get to contribute specifically?
Hmm. So many things.
Um, I, I would say first that I'm really just proud of the team that I'm working with. Um, every day I feel fortunate just to be around these amazing women on the Soul Fire Farm team, um, and. Also our, our men that are on the team as well. But, um, yeah, I just, I'm just always amazed at how much they're able to hold.
Um, people on our team have their, their work at Soulfire, but they're also doing these outside things, organizing for the community, um, building community spaces for organizers and activists. Uh, people are doing poetry and music. Mm-hmm. And all of these other amazing things that just make the team. What it is, and people bring that part of them to the work that we're doing as well.
Mm-hmm. Um, thinking of the, the musical and the poetry piece, like when we're giving our, uh, presentations about, maybe we're talking about up reading racism and sovereignty, there's always a space for, um, Naima, our program director to share a poem, um, related to uprooting racism and just having a work environment where you can like, merge those two aspects mm-hmm.
Of your life is really rare. I feel like. Um, I'm also just proud of, um, the, the community members that we are able to interact with and, um, in really just improving the lives of our, our black and brown communities. Um, it's, it's especially important to me as a black person, um, someone who. Didn't necessarily grow up, um, poor, but my parents are immigrants and they came to this country, um, wanting a better life for their children.
And I know my mother had to clean bathrooms and do these jobs that are not the most glamorous, but she did them so that I don't have to do them and I can live out the dream that she wants from me. Um, as I said earlier, how I wanted to be a veterinarian. Mm-hmm. But just knowing that, um, my mother laid down the, the framework for me to have choice and have all these different opportunities where I could say, you know what?
I don't wanna be a veterinarian. I'm gonna pursue organic farming and do this food justice work. Mm-hmm. And she supports me no matter what I do. Um, that's, that's something that's just really amazing and, and priceless to me. Um, and I'm proud of the. The, um, organizations and groups that we work with, um, who are really doing that, that hard work to try and, um, uproot racism, racism within their, their organizations, by mm-hmm.
By joining us for programs like our uprooting racism trainings, where we're really giving folks tangible steps on how to recognize oppression in the workplace and ways that they might be complicit in perpetuating racism mm-hmm. In their organization. And people who are just really willing to have these hard conversations and do the work is always amazing to see.
Mm-hmm. And I'm proud of them for the work that they're doing.
Well, when you're, when you guys are working as hard as you are and it feels like the mountain keeps getting bigger, that you're trying to mm-hmm. To climb up, I think it's like. It's so nice when people are like coming up over the hill to meet you.
Like it, it changes things because then it's like, oh no, like this is, this is really happening for a reason that's bigger than we even thought it was at first. Like it's, yeah, having that support means so much and, um, yeah, I mean, I experienced it in my own businesses, but you know, we're, we're just scratching the surface at what the impact you guys are making every day.
So, you know, when you work that hard and you care so much for someone to just show up and be a yes. Like it changes it all. Mm-hmm. Like it, it refills everything back up. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
It really does. So the, the women of who, or I guess it's not just women, but all the people listening on the, so the Power Plays podcast are really people who want to be making the impact and how, knowing how they can help, how are ways that people can support getting, um, fruit and vegetables and things of high nutritional value to the people who need it, and how can they support that wherever they live, and how can they support, um, soul Fire Farm as well?
I
would say
if you. Have access to land, um, or you have a space in your backyard to grow, um, fruit and vegetables. Um, I would say that you should try and donate those crops to a food pantry or a shelter or soup kitchen. Um, or if you know community members who are in need, you know, um, offer some of your food to them.
Um, that's the most basic way I feel that you can help. Um, I would say for, um, ways to support soul fire, um. As I said previously, we're always, um, working to increase the number of black and brown farmers, um, in the United States. And though there are more black and brown, uh, folks who are interested in farming now, who, um, are looking for land or who might be looking for capital to get their farm started, um, there's not always a lot of avenues for them to get that land or that money.
But we do have a reparations map, uh, which I can share with you at Thera, um, where people can go on that map and see what needs and resources folks are looking for so that they can be able to start their own farm, um, or their own food justice related project. I would say that's a major way that you can help us by helping other black and brown farmers.
Mm-hmm. Um. Specifically helping a soul fire farm. We are in the midst of, uh, working on our capital campaign where we are looking to raise money to support, uh, infrastructure on the farm to be able to host more people. Mm-hmm. Um, we. As I said previously, we have our educational programming, all of that, that is happening on the farm in our co-directors home.
Um, and they would honestly like their space back. So a lot of that involves us building more housing, um mm-hmm. Classroom space and all of these other, um, all of this other needed infrastructure so that we can host more people and be. Compliant with, uh, the needs of a commercial facility. Um, because we're no longer operating as a residential facility.
We've, we've grown past that, which is good, but that means we gotta follow certain rules. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, if you could support in that capacity, I can also share that link for our capital campaign as
well. Yes, for sure. We'll absolutely include that in all of our links and all the things that we, we share with the listeners.
Um, you know, when we look at food specifically, personally, I am completely obsessed with any food farming documentary, like the one about soil, like the poly farming, you name it. I'm like, I want all of it. Like, there couldn't be enough. I think that Soulfire needs its own documentary 'cause it's like a next level of what's happening.
Mm-hmm. So anyone listening who maybe works for Netflix, I know there's some of you that do, or Apple. Like go reach out to, so far this is a great story. Um, yeah, but there's so many things and, um, there's, it feels a little bit overwhelming for people probably who have never farmed before to have to think about all these factors.
Um, does the education you guys provide, like does it start with soil? Is it, is it a poly farm approach? Um, is there something special about how you guys farm versus other people?
At SoFi, we are, we're using, uh, Afro Indigenous farming practices, uh, regenerative agriculture, um, which I know personally for me, um, in my undergraduate and master's program, I came to think that all of these innovative agricultural sustainable practices were all.
Things that were created by white men and to come to so fire to learn that no, actually a lot of these sustainable regenerative farming practices come from your people. Mm-hmm. Um, thinking of practices that we use and that other farms use as well, like raised beds mm-hmm. That comes out from the, um, abo people of Namibia.
Uh, we use a form of terra saying, um, we're using polycultures and intercropping, which comes out of Haiti. All of these practices that are helping to, uh, increase our biodiversity on the land. Mm-hmm. And we're seeing more pollinators and less soil erosion, all of these things. Um, our Afro indigenous practices that we're incorporating.
Um, and it's really important in our programming piece that we. Are spreading that message to our mm-hmm. Our, um, folks that are coming to the land, that these are practices that came from your people and that you should be proud of this. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's really important for us to, to get across to people.
Mm-hmm. Well, and, and you know, every, every culture had a farming, um, had a farming methodology. Right. No matter where you were coming from, every different climate had something different and. Yeah, it's, it's really, oops, sorry. It really speaks to, um, the cutoff of culture that's happened in the US and in other, um, other Western places that, that did participate in slavery.
Right. 'cause they were just where things came from. Nobody knows. Um, that's one of the parts I find so heartbreaking. You know, when you look at how much, you know, my family, my dad totally nerds out on like, um, ancestry.com and we can go pretty far. Mm-hmm. And it's, it, you know. It's not everyone has that luxury, and I think it's just true for any cultural, um, feature.
Mm-hmm. Um, you know, um, I love anthropology and that's where I think Lee and I have crossed paths in some courses in the past, um, and geography. And there's so much about that that is always giving credit to somebody who doesn't deserve it. Mm-hmm. Um, there's, you know, and there's a crossover, right, of like ideas sprouting up in different places at the same time.
But typically it's whoever had the most publicity or had the most power that got their, their name written on it.
Um, yeah, and I mean, these are also the same people that you see at, you know, conferences at these places where they have a platform to spread that mm-hmm. Message to a wider audience. Um, and that's, that's really how it starts.
You think that these are the folks where the information originated from because they're the ones that you see
most. Yeah. And not only is Soul Fire Farm, again, it's, it has all these crossovers, which I think makes it so unique because it's run by young people, it's run by women, and it's run by women of color.
Like, it's the unicorn of the farming community. So do you see things shifting? I like, I know there's an undercurrent of like more younger people wanting to farm and have, have land to farm, um mm-hmm. But is it changing and is it, you know, what's really happening for you being in the industry?
Hmm, that's a good one.
Um, I would definitely say that there is an increase in, um. Uh, BIPOC folks looking to farm. Mm-hmm. Um, again, it's that piece of acquiring the capital and the land to be able to start, um, your own farm. Um, but the, the interest is definitely there. Um, it's not that black and brown folks aren't interested in farming, they are.
Um, and I just wanna like shout out some other organizations that are doing the work to make it so that. Uh, black and brown folks can have that capital to start their own land, like the Northeast Farmers of Color Land trusts, um, where we're working to have, um, accumulated land for black and brown farmers mm-hmm.
To be able, um, to start their own farms. Um, there's also the Black Farmer Fund, uh, that is working to secure capital, um, for black and brown farmers and just all of these other organizations besides so far farm that's doing this work for our people so that we can have, um, to have a say in this, uh, this food system and influence policy and bring about the change that we're really looking to see.
Um. Yeah, we're just really, we're really proud and fortunate to be able to have these connections. Um, with a lot of these organizations. A lot of them are, um, members of our board and they're just really, um, closely connected with SoFi from, it's from the beginning. Um, and it's just amazing to see all the work that's being done in this movement.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's, um, it makes me proud of what you guys are doing again, because there's, so you've, you've found a way to combine so many important things into one place, and I think just to inspire other people, that you don't have to pick one thing and that be what you go after. Like how do you bring in everything you care about into what you're creating?
And you know, as you mentioned, how do you create a work environment that. Is really an ideal work environment versus the way it's supposed to be done. Like, you know, one of the things I tell people all the time is like, quit doing what you should, when you can look at, you know, what could you be doing, you know?
Mm-hmm. And to see, um, a company and an, and an organization that's built a hundred percent on what could be possible, um, that gets me excited about what's happening. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Um, so when we, when more things about you, right? As you're our guest today, um, when you think about the words powerful and ladies, what do they mean to you separately and what is, what do they mean when they're combined?
Hmm.
I would say that combined, I feel that a powerful lady is someone that's using their, their power, their platform to, um, improve the lives of others. Um, obviously I say that as someone who works for two nonprofits, where, um, I am often doing that, um, for community members. And that's what, that's just what makes me happy, what makes me feel mm-hmm.
Fulfilled. Um, but aside from that, I would also say that a powerful lady is someone that. Is really, I wouldn't say sure of themselves, but they're content with what they're doing and they feel that what they're doing is right. Um, they know that this is where they're supposed to be. And regardless of what other people think or say about what they're doing, um, they, they feel that this is what's best for them and they're doing the right thing in that moment.
I say that because I'm thinking about. All of the times that I was told throughout my, um, undergraduate and even high school career, that what I was pursuing was not necessarily the best thing for me, um, that I should think about doing something else. Um, and I said, no, I think this is what I wanna do. I'm not gonna listen to you.
So I, I'm really proud of myself for having that, um, powerfully dynamic even then. Mm-hmm. But I still feel that I have a lot of work to do when it comes to my own insecurities and those moments that I do have doubt. And, um, that's why I said originally that I didn't wanna say necessarily sure of yourself, because I know that I'm not, sometimes I do doubt the steps that I'm taking.
And I wonder, um, if I had done something differently, if the outcome would've been. More so what I preferred or things just would've had, had been better in general. Mm-hmm. Um, and so for me, I feel like a powerful lady also recognizes that they have that doubt and that insecurity and they work on it and try to grow and learn from it and don't consider it as a negative thing or, um, something that's going to hold them back.
It's actually really helping them to improve themselves. Mm-hmm. To know that you, you still have this, this flaw and it's something that you can eventually improve on.
Yeah. Do it anyway and figure it out as you go. Yeah. We don't all have it together. We're
all learning we along
the way. I think anyone who says they do, they're like missing a, they're lying area.
They're lying.
Yeah.
Yeah. I got it all together. And then you open their, their trunk and you're like, what is in your trunk? No, that's what the back of my car looks like.
Well, obviously, you know, working with, um, two nonprofits and, you know, being up to creating your best life, in addition to making the missions of these two businesses come true. It's a lot of work, you know, and mm-hmm. Everything that does with seven people is. One, it's super impressive about what's possible with the seven person team, and two, I know that that means that you guys are going above and beyond in your individual roles every day.
So what are you doing to balance being committed to these organizations and also committed to yourself and your personal growth?
Hmm. That is also something I struggle with every day, especially now with COVID-19. Um mm-hmm. I've realized that, oh, I thought I had anxiety before. It's like a whole nother level now.
Hmm. Um, and um, again, I feel like it's. Important that I recognize when I'm having these moments where I feel mm-hmm. That I'm overwhelmed by both positions. Um, and taking a step back and taking time for me. Um, until a few months ago, I was living on my own, which made it easier for me to just keep working and working all the time because I didn't have to entertain another human being or anything like that.
Um, but now I am living with my partner and, um, it really just changes your whole day to day when you have to consider another person's feelings. Mm-hmm. And the fact that they wanna spend time with you and you wanna spend time with them, how do you fit that into your busy work schedule? And it's really helped me to find that work life balance.
Mm-hmm. Um, where I am not working 13, 15 hours every day, but maybe on a Tuesday I will work 10 hours and spend time with my partner. And, um, just take time for me. That time for me might look like me just taking a bubble bath or something, or reading, um, just not looking at a computer screen especially.
Yeah. Um, but yeah. Um, I feel like it's probably been a struggle for so many people with the pandemic to really just navigate all of this. Mm-hmm. And, um, be able to take that time for yourself and not feel guilt for it. Yeah. Um, I think for the first part of the pandemic, I often felt that guilt for wanting to step away because there was so much that needed to be done.
Um, especially, um, with SoFi and the market. Oh yeah. Things just ramped up to a whole nother level and there was just so many priorities all the time. Mm-hmm. But I had to say to myself. Listen, you're also a priority. You can't do any of this work if you run yourself to the ground. Yeah. So you need to prioritize yourself as well.
Mm-hmm.
Um, this month in our Powerful Ladies Thrive, um, community, we're talking all about how to have a profitable business and give a lot of it back. Like, how do you be a, a basically a B Corp no matter what size you are.
Mm-hmm.
And what I think has been so incredible is that all of the female entrepreneurs who are in this, um, group are all heart led business people and, you know, non-profits or for-profit.
At the end of the day, it's a tax status, right? All the same things have to happen, right? Mm-hmm. You look at the daily to-do list, it's still like strategy and marketing and sales. You know, find 50 more magical people who wanna do things for ideally free. Mm-hmm. And, um, but what I love, what I love about working with, with female entrepreneurs in particular is that it is businesses being created for making an impact, even if it's changing one specific customer type or one specific thing in the world.
And I know that that's, you know, how it is a question of how do you balance that passion for like, knowing. Every little step you do does move it forward at the same time, not wanting to literally dissolve yourself. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I, my bubble bath intake has gone up significantly since March, so Yes. Um, it's like bubble bath essential oils, like Yes.
What is
happening.
Yes. Well, and, and I think you bring up a great point too about, you know, how are we balancing our mental health because what we eat is so tied to our mental health. I slipped into
that, that phase where I was like eating out more or eating more comfort foods mm-hmm. When the pandemic first hit, and Yeah, I, I realized about maybe a month or two in that.
This is not sustainable, Cheryl. You cannot continue to do this. You're headed down a path to destruction. And I, I had to switch it up and I did start eating healthier and putting myself on a more strict, a stricter diet, which I had never done. Uh, prior to the pandemic. I didn't have that, that willpower to put myself on a diet until COVID Ovid 19.
Um, so that's, that's been really interesting for me. And I also, I'm just happy that I feel better about mm-hmm. The. I physically, I feel better and I just feel better about the way I look as well. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, I am, I'm gonna continue to do that hopefully for
the next couple of months. Well, I now know too that I look at the receipt from grocery shopping.
Mm-hmm. I can tell like where my mental health is, if the shopping list looks like I was eight years old and went shopping. Mm-hmm. We know we need to have a personal timeout, like Yes. Yes. A few weeks ago, like, I think it was literally the, the week, um, like I went shopping the weekend before the election and you would've thought I was eight years old.
There was like three boxes of cereal, like, you know, a Mac and cheese, like all these things that I'm like, who actually eats these foods in our house? Yeah. Like candy. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I. Cannot believe I just spent grocery money on all of this stuff. But
yeah.
Um, it's okay. Right. Giving grace is part of the process.
Yes. Mm-hmm.
I feel, I feel really bad for my, uh, poor boyfriend because, um, every time I go to the market, I'll bring him home donuts because I can't have them. Yeah. But I somehow find sad satisfaction knowing that he can. Yes. But it's not necessarily good for him.
Yes. I am also blamed for my boyfriend gaining weight, and I'm like that, that's not my fault.
You can say no. You can, you can, you can always pay it forward. Right. That's the best part. So obviously this year has been a complete rollercoaster and it's impacted. Everyone's businesses. And I feel, again, 'cause you guys have so many intersecting things, it's been impacted multiple times.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I did see what looked like some, some good press that you guys were getting some extra press because of supporting, um, black-owned businesses and, and women who were doing big things.
Um, and now that we're going into a new president and a new year, like where are you at on, on your hope scale and what are you excited about as we wrap up this year and move into 2021? Hmm.
I am hopeful, um, with the. New administration coming in next year that there will be more policy changes specific to, um, black and brown farmers. Mm-hmm. Um, and also, uh, farm workers rights, which is something that we also, uh, advocate for at Sole Fire Farm, um, specifically. Um, I know Leah does a lot of that, uh, policy and advocacy work.
Mm-hmm. So, um, I'm hoping that some of that change might happen in 2021. Something we've been working towards for a long time now. Um, but maybe it'll happen in, in baby steps. Yeah. Um, but I am also looking forward to, um, hopefully being able to have folks on the land in some capacity. Mm-hmm. Um, obviously it's.
It's never gonna be the same at this point. Mm-hmm. Um, but you know, maybe we can have small volunteer days on the farm with like maybe 10 or 15 people. Um, we can still have our educational immersion programs, but. Maybe it's just gonna be specific to folks in like the tri-state area, or the groups are gonna be smaller.
It's all gonna look different of course, but, um, we're hoping that it can still happen. Um, this year we've had to adapt like many organizations mm-hmm. And move a lot of our programming online, which has been great. Um, especially in our ability to be able to reach more people and make it more accessible.
Um, like we've still been incorporating our, um, educational programming, but online it looked like a, what we call a 3D skill share, where we're teaching folks specifically about different, um, aspects of farming. Mm-hmm. Like one session might be about beekeeping, the next one might be about seed keeping, um, and things like that.
Um, but because we've started these new types of teaching, um, online. It's not necessarily necessarily something that we have to completely forget about. Mm-hmm. If we are able to have in-person programming next year, maybe there could be a hybrid, um, where some aspects of our teaching happen online and some of it is in person.
Um, so that it is a safer environment with COVID-19. Um, but yeah, just looking forward to, um, being able to be in community again, I think is really something that's important for myself and for my other team members.
Yeah, I, yeah, I think for all of us, right. I could, yeah. You definitely saw the waves of introverts to extroverts and then everybody starting to get antsy and, you know, it's hard Right.
With like new or like second lockdowns going into effect or shelter in place. Yeah. And. I'm personally excited that it wasn't just me who wanted to start celebrating Christmas early, but I'm seeing that trend happen everywhere. Yes, me too. I'm like, yep. I want, I want a tree in the house. I want it to smell good.
Yes. I'm just gonna, you know, have a timeout and watch some Hallmark if I need to Hallmark. Mm-hmm. Hallmark channel. Yeah. Um, but it's, it's, uh, essentially we were ready to live completely off the grid at our house. We're like, you know, we're gonna add more, uh, to our garden. We're gonna be making our own candles, we're gonna be doing everything.
Mm-hmm. And I think it's good from that perspective that a lot of people have realized, um, in this pause, we've all had to take how important it is to have, have more direct access to the things that we need. Mm-hmm. Um, because there's. Everyone I think now is craving having property that never thought they would want it before.
Mm-hmm. And having space and the value of having some level of outdoor space where your home is. Yeah. Um, realizing how much the quality impacts things. Mm-hmm. I think the biggest thing I'm disappointed about since COVID is that nobody was like, no one publicly was talking about how so much of it, uh, does come back to food and what we're doing to our own bodies and that, I mean, it's been almost nine months and nine months, you can change an entire life from a health and fitness perspective.
Yeah. So it's like, how about we get rid of some of the underlying conditions for people? That'd be great. Mm-hmm.
Like, yes, indeed. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. But I'm excited that. That people are now opening up and thinking about more of these things. Um, I have a good friend who is obsessed with all things food, sustainable farming, and um, he has a speaker series and he was actually reaching out to, um, soul Fire Farm as well to get somebody there.
Okay. And it's just, I think it's good that people are waking up and realizing, okay, something's not working.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And seeing it, um, everyone has their blind spots, but to think specifically about the, again, the overlapping areas that you guys have of, it's, it's, they all matter. And this is such a great solution for people.
Um, when it comes to how you guys are, are going forward in the exposure that you want, are, is your goal to like, you know, have everyone in New York know who you guys are? Is it everyone in the us? Like how big do you guys want Soul Fire Farm to be? Um,
well, I feel that Soulfire is pretty big right now. Yes.
Um, I mean, we've, we've done speaking engagements all over the country. Mm-hmm. Um, even outside of the country. Um, I know we've spoken in the UK before. Um, so I would say that we're growing and we're going to continue to grow. Um, that's, that's the way that we get this message out to. Mm-hmm. As many people who will listen about food justice and food sovereignty, uprooting racism, um, we, we wanna keep, keep growing and keep getting the message out there to people.
For people who, this is the first time they've heard of some of these concepts before. Mm-hmm. Where can they go to, you know, find books or find, uh, podcasts? Where do you recommend they go or what are your favorites?
Um, so, so far Farm, actually, our co-director, Leah Penman, uh, published a book in 2018 called Farming While Black, um, which will give you a lot of the history of, uh, Afro indigenous farming practices that we're using at the farm as well as.
Just the history of how the farm started, how Lee and Jonah got to where they are today. Um, and so far as a whole, um, a lot of the programming that we're doing, um, and just how to start your own farm, if that's something you're interested in, or if you are looking for a recipe or gardening tips, all of that can be found in that book.
It's like a practical manual on farming. Um, so I would say that's a good resource. Um, and then we actually have a media list where we're tracking all of the different, uh, interviews, podcasts, uh, articles that we've had the, um, opportunity to participate in. Mm-hmm. So that's another good resource I can share with y'all.
Um, so you can learn more about, um, food justice, um, food apartheid, and just specifically the work that so far Farm is doing as well.
Well, that would be fantastic. Thank you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. As we're, um, wrapping up, we always ask our guests a few questions. The first is, um, where do you put yourself on the powerful lady scale?
Um, if zero is average everyday human and 10 is super powerful lady, how do you feel today and how do you feel on average?
Hmm. Today I am feeling like a six just because of the day that I had at the market today where I feel like there were, um, some situations that I had to diffuse and I felt like I did a pretty good job at it.
Um, it's not always easy because sometimes you're just not in a great mood, especially when it's cold out. Um, and I would say on average, um, I'm always going to. Rate myself low because I am my own toughest critic, actually, I think a lot of people are. Um, so I give myself a five just go smack up in the middle.
Um, I feel like I do, I do my work well. I do the best that I can. Um, but there's always room for improvement. Mm-hmm.
Well, it has been such a pleasure speaking with you today. Um, I've loved meeting you getting to share your story, this whole fire farm story, and I can't wait for all of our listeners to hear about it as well and to inspire more people to lean in where you guys are.
So thank you so much. Thank you
so much. This was so much fun. I am really glad that I had the opportunity to be on with y'all. Yeah. Thank you.
I loved having the opportunity to speak with and meet Cheryl. I wish you could all see her contagious, beautiful smile. Another reason why we need to add video to our podcast. What's needed to make a big impact towards equality, community health, and our future really are as simple as fruit, veg and land ownership.
We know this from Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and it's proven itself in the current inequality to food health and opportunities in the us. The work Soul Fire Farm is doing is incredible and I encourage you to donate, support, share, and follow them. To connect, support and follow Cheryl and Soul Fire Farm, you can find them on Instagram at Soul Fire Farm and visit their website, soul Fire farm.org.
We will also have links to their recommended media list. Action steps and policy platform for food sovereignty, their GoFundMe account, and links to get Leah's book@thepowerfulladies.com slash podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
There are so many ways you can get involved and get supported with fellow powerful ladies. First, subscribe to this podcast anywhere you listen to podcast. Give us a five star rating and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies. Join the Powerful Ladies Thrive Collective.
This is the place where powerful ladies connect, level up, and learn how to thrive in business and life. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube page, and of course, visit our website, the powerful ladies.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. Without her, this wouldn't be possible.
You can follow her on Instagram at Jordan K. Duffy. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
