Episode 111: A Powerful Conversation About America | Stop Asian Hate: How To Create Real Change | NoNo Go, Sierra Katow, DJ Bella Fiasco, Kalika Yap
This special episode of the Powerful Ladies Podcast shares the unedited recording of A Powerful Conversation About America: Racism – Episode 4, Stop Asian Hate. Recorded live on April 9, 2021, this moving panel features artist NoNo Go, comedian Sierra Katow, DJ Bella Fiasco, and entrepreneur Kalika Yap. Together, they share personal stories of anti-Asian racism, explore the cultural and generational factors that shape how we respond, and offer practical ways to stand up for our communities. From confronting stereotypes in the workplace to teaching the next generation about empathy and equity, this is an honest and essential conversation on how racism impacts Asian Americans, and what we can all do to create real change. If you’ve been asking “how can I help?” this episode is for you.
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You can follow & connect with our panelists on Instagram here:
NoNo Go @nono_go
Kalika Yap @kalikayap
Sierra Katow @sierrakatow
DJ Bella Fiasco @djbellafiasco
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 – Introduction from Kara Duffy
01:12 – Why this conversation matters right now
03:04 – NoNo Go on processing personal experiences with racism
05:48 – Sierra Katow on isolation and community support
07:02 – DJ Bella Fiasco on growing up suppressing experiences
09:22 – Kalika Yap’s experiences in Australia and Hawaii
12:03 – Fears for family safety amid rising hate crimes
15:40 – How cultural upbringing shapes compliance and speaking up
20:45 – Family resilience and generational differences
23:18 – Raising kids to recognize and reject racism
27:56 – Educating the next generation through books and media
30:45 – School bullying and when to intervene
32:59 – Racism and sexism in the workplace
36:02 – Being booked for image vs. skill in the entertainment industry
39:00 – Standing in your values as an entrepreneur
41:58 – Subtle bias, jokes, and when to call it out
45:20 – How non-Asian Americans can be allies
48:55 – Panelists share how to connect and support their work
54:00 – Closing thoughts and call to action
Hi guys. This is your host, Kara Duffy. Today you'll hear a special episode of The Powerful Ladies podcast. This is the live unedited recording from a round table, a powerful conversation about America. Racism, episode four, stop. Asian Hate. This powerful moving and inspiring conversation took place on April 9th, 2021.
Featuring No, no go. Sierra Catto, DJ Bella Fiasco and Kalika Yap. We encourage and invite you to share this episode with everyone who needs to hear it.
So as you, you guys can see, we have just a few of the, um, you know, badass women that are here with us today. Really diverse to start, which we're happy about with really great different experiences. Just to speak to why this matters so much, um, two things came up really recently. Uh, obviously I'm based in Orange County, California, and the statistic is that, um, hate crimes against Asian Americans just in Orange County.
Is up tenfold in the past year, which is absolutely insane. And then, um, I don't know if you guys saw as well, um, the US Karate Olympian, uh, PO yesterday posted a video where she was working out in her local park in Orange County, and a guy attacked her, went on a rant for about 20 minutes. And she said, listen, it's okay that it was me because I have the training to protect myself and know how to handle these situations.
But what if it was anybody else? What if it was my mother or my kids or someone else that wouldn't have the bad, the training that I have? So bravo to her for keeping poised to that situation, but that shouldn't be a situation that anyone is dealing with. Um, so I would love to hear from all of you, panelists, have you had personal experiences and what have they been?
And I know No, no, you've shared a lot through your illustrations on your Instagram, which I think is a great way to be sharing your experiences. So maybe we'll start with you, um, and we'll just go around the group so it's open forum. So panelists, you can, you can kind of go with the flow. Um, I think. Um, my experience, I'm just now starting to process them.
Um, as I kind of drew in my Instagram. Every incident is like a little splinter that happens and I'm this block, and over the years I just kind of sand them down. I don't try to make a big deal out of them. I don't try to dwell. I just kind of have. I normalized it in my experience, and lately with all the Asian hate crimes happening, they've just resurfaced and I've been, I find myself having to deal with them all at once, like all the childhood stuff and, um.
Most recently it was just having to, um, kind of getting brushed aside in in a UPS line and having to just stand there for half an hour while other people were getting helped. And I try to justify it in my mind why I was the only one standing in line, um, is it because my thing is more complicated? But then I saw a white guy in back of me get helped for the very same thing.
And I try to justify too. And so it was really infuriating and I found it super humiliating. And now being, um, a mother of two, like if I'm experiencing this by myself, it's fine, but if my kids were there witnessing that interaction. I feel like I need to have some words or I need to, uh, have something in my arsenal to just throw out and be like, is this normal?
Hello. Um, and so I think, um, right now I'm still in the middle of just processing all of my past experiences that have been kind of like this and it's been, um, really great to have. The, the like online, me, social media and have people kind of affirm these experiences, even in them liking them and, and them saying, Hey, I had something similar happen to me that just has been really affirming to me.
Thanks. No, no. Um, Sierra, I see you nodding your head throughout that chair, so I'll let you go next. Oh yeah, yeah, I definitely, uh, I, you know, thanks for sharing. No, no. I think it's like been so helpful to. Especially now that we've been so isolated for so long to see everybody, you know, whether that's posts on social media.
I, I, I thankfully, like, I don't have any personal experiences to share in this timeframe, but I remember talking with my, another comedian friend, um, you know, March of last year, March, 2020, when we were talking about these hate crimes and incidents that were happening, and we're like, oh gosh, you know. Well, you know, I, I guess it was still new-ish, um, as far as just within the pandemic, um, timeline and just to think that we were talking about it, you know, again, a year later, of course, uh, if we look at anybody's history, it's definitely something that has been around for a long time.
But I think it's just been, um, harrowing to see that like it's happening to us again. And the fact that, you know, um. No matter who I talk to, who has left their house, I've also just been inside a lot. Um, there's always something, you know, and I live in Los Angeles and, um, even friends that are in, you know, very heavily, um.
Asian American areas, I think, you know, you'd expect people to be used to us by now, but, uh, maybe, you know, apparently not. So it has been both, um, I guess good to bring community together as just like the one positive thing to say. But it's definitely, you know, been very difficult, thankful to have family and a support system of friends.
Um, but, but yeah, I mean, I, I, I guess. I wonder if anybody else has personal stories to share since I'm not the, not a great example of that at the moment in my isolation.
Bella or Kika? Yeah. Yeah. Or not if it's, yeah, no. Revisiting if you don't need to. Um, with my experience very, very similar to what Nono talked about. I think I'm just now kind of processing it as, as a, you know, we've collectively experienced these things together. Um, I grew up in Manila also like Ika. Um, so I came out here, uh, you know, spoke funny, but I feel like just, uh.
Growing up, it, it has been normalized and I kinda, you know, you're used to just being quiet about it and not really bring, bringing too much attention to it because you wanna fit in, you want to just be neutral. You don't want anyone to like, think you're fucking crazy for even speaking up about anything.
So like growing up, yeah, you kind of learn and normalize that and suppress everything, you know, all, all your thoughts and feelings about it. And like the school that I went to, it was. Maybe three Asians in the entire school. So it's not like if I spoke up about anything, anyone could relate to how I felt or, or any of that.
So yeah, like what Nono said, I feel like I'm just now processing that these are things that we collectively experienced growing up. It's just that we've had to suppress it or, you know, not how to chance to talk about it or not even know how to talk about it. 'cause growing up I didn't know how to talk about it, you know, I knew how I felt about it.
I just didn't know how to express those feelings because like I said, I wasn't sure if. The person next to me could relate, or the person next to me could understand what I'm feeling. So yeah, it's taken a while to process it, but now I think that there's, and, and, and I think the power of social media is so important in, in, in times like this because, you know, people are talking about it now and, and, and now it's like, oh, you, you went through that too.
And, and I've had, I'm having more of these conversations lately, which is crazy because. I have Asian friends, but we've never even like talked about it the way that we are. We're talking about it now. And, and I think that's, you know, that's, that's so crazy to me because like we've known each other for decades and we're just now talking about it.
The fact that we've all experienced these things together, you know? So I think that the power of social media is also very important because now we get to talk about it openly and um, yeah, even something like this. This is, this is, I'm, I'm happy we're having this 'cause otherwise, I feel like this is just something that, you know, like these conversations would just happen, like behind closed doors.
But now we have, um, a platform where we could talk about it with other people and have an open line of communication. So. Well, I can add, um, I grew up in Hawaii, so after I left, uh, the Philippines because of martial law, um, uh, we moved to Hawaii. And I guess growing up where the majority of people are Asian, I, I think it, I had a different experience, but during that, while I was there, when between the ages of.
Six and nine. He moved to Australia and that's where we saw a lot of racism and discrimination. I remember just walking and, and my mom was just saying hi to a neighbor, and the neighbor was just like. Are you speaking English? You know, just like really rude. And I was six at the time and my mom didn't say anything.
Of course, you know, my mom is really sweet, you know, mother of five kids. And, um, but I think that in order for us to, if we're gonna be talking about how we can change, you know, it's, it's definitely an outrage, but I think that we need to be able to show up, not on that level, but to show up kindly. So, uh, I was thinking about.
You know, speaking up, you know, in a post office or a UPS store, what that would look like. I mean, I'm four 11 and three quarters, you know, but it would just be like, hi, I'm here. You know, like using, you know, body language, using nonverbal communication, you know, but also being really friendly about it.
Reading books on, you know, uh, yeah, body language, reading books on how to have a difficult conversation and not be angry about it. I'm a really big fan of Fit, not Han uh, the Zen Buddhist monk, and I've read all his books on, uh, you know, taming the Tiger Within, you know, talking about anger. Because what happens is when you start thinking about this anger, it just becomes this relentless snowball effect.
So, and, and I absolutely a hundred percent believe that everything here is. Is, uh, a really good conversation to have, you know, but, um, there's also a great professor, professor Ross, I think from Smith College who talks about, rather than calling someone out, what about calling them in? You know, really trying to understand their point of view and, and starting from there because it's easy to get angry.
I think that is our default nature, and how do we intentionally show up in this world where it can be a lot more effective.
How afraid are you guys of your parents or grandparents or your kids being out just in, you know, regular day activities that we're allowed to do right now? Because I just keep seeing every day there's another elderly Asian American being pushed or being attacked or being, I don't understand why. Why anyone would do that to anyone.
But like suddenly it's just like no big deal for it to be happening. And I'm shocked that there doesn't seem to be anybody there to support them. Like, how are you on the street by yourself and who's filming it and why aren't you helping, like, what's going on? So how are you guys feeling about the people in your family and your communities and are you letting them go out and, and when they do, are you taking any precautions?
Um, I think my, I think there's a stark contrast between how my parents are when they're in their native Taiwan and how they are here in the States. And I think the mastery of language has a lot to do with it. I was, um, my mom was asking me about the UPS incident and I shared with her how I was timid in speaking up and my mom.
Was like, she's the type of person I, I still remember this memory of being in Taiwan and being on the bus and the, the bus had a leak. And so we used our, um, umbrellas in the bus to kind of like shield us from the rain that was coming through the leak. And when it came time to collect the bus fare, my mom was like.
Heck no. We're not paying you for a leaky bus ride. I'm not paying. And then she spoke to the rest of the bus, like, you guys know you have rights, you don't have to pay. And I was mortified, like humiliated, wanted to duck into the seats. Like, please, please don't make a big fuss about it. But, and that was in Taiwan.
But here in the States, my mom said that. She was trying to text the guy who did the, the roofer, and he was a Caucasian man and she was paying him to fix our roof in our house in Arizona, and she took a day. To come up with that text. That text message took her a day and she, she said, I just have this inferiority complex when it comes to dealing with, um, Caucasian men and I don't know what it is.
And I find that, um, I thought about how when I was in kindergarten, whenever I had to write. Have my mom write a note to the teacher saying, please excuse her for being late or for her absence. My mom would say, can you write it for me first and then I'll copy it in my own handwriting and I'll sign it.
And I feel like that just in my child mind, that kind of kind of cut my mom's legs out from under her. It was, it was a very, um. I, I just felt like my parents are powerless in, in, they're not being able to advocate on my behalf, say, and it just felt like, oh, this is a really different, um, this is a really different dynamic.
And I think I've carried that into like, there's all sorts of baggage from growing up. In an Asian home, like, like, um, I don't know if the rest of our pan panelists can relate, but, um, my mom and dad would always ask, have you been in Chinese? It's called, and the literal, literal translation of that is, have you been compliant?
And that's like upheld as this, this. The most wonderful thing you can be as a child is to be compliant. And now that I'm a professional, I'm like, I dunno if I wanna put that on my resume, like I'm the most compliant employee you'll ever have. Like, I'm not gonna rock the boat. So I'm curious to see if anybody else has, um, a similar like baggage coming into their professional life.
I can, I can agree a thousand percent, but from, uh, like a even different perspective, I guess since my parents, I, so I'm fourth generation, so I have the privilege of parents, you know, speaking the language, grandparents speaking the language. Um, but, but I guess what I. The reason why I sometimes like to bring that angle is that, you know, even with so many generations, I think there, there's still things and cultural things that stick with us and there's still race in America that, you know, gives you a certain identity that other people place on you.
And so then I think we still have that sort of compliance despite the fact that, you know, certainly there are other aspects of my parents being able to. Write the note or speak the language and, and do the things that say white parents did. But I would say that, um, so I, so thinking about like my own mom, like, I think she was actually probably, you know, imagine if, I guess generations later, it's like, she was definitely more, oh, come on, you gotta stick up for yourself and you gotta, you know, be, you know, help out your Asian brothers and sisters, like other, whatever, whatever it is she had definitely, um, some of that having.
Her, you know, having seen her say her parents go through certain things or, um, and I think what was interesting though is still, you know, as a kid you still see actions of your parents and I think there's definitely still elements that exist, even with the privileges that we have, where I still feel the sort of compliance thing.
And I, I, you know, have a lot of, um, conflict about that. 'cause I think especially. In every, you know, just in, I guess what it seems like American culture is like I, you know, be your individual self and like, you know, especially with, um. If you're, if you're wanting to also fight back against like women stereotypes, you're also doing the same fighting of like, oh, I gotta stand up for myself.
I have to speak up. I shouldn't let anybody talk over me. All these things that we should do. So the minute that I ever fall into an A more passive. State, I do something that maybe was a little bit more soft spoken. I beat myself up about it because I'm like, I'm falling into this stereotype, both Asian and woman, and it's just um, like an extra layer of guilt, I guess, or something.
Right. That I think we put on ourselves because of the conflicting messages of like, compliance is good and actually like as I get older, I've been, I've been trying to become more appreciative of. That aspect of me in the sense that, like one of my cousins actually, who's also fourth generation, she moved to Hong Kong recently 'cause she got married and her husband works out there.
So she's kind of come into this different thing of like moving, you know, again, Hong Kong is its own thing, but I guess like the fact that she's kind of meeting more, um, yeah. Asian people and understanding that like there's actually maybe if compliance is okay. There's a team player aspect to that.
There's like a familial aspect to that. So I guess I've been trying to like accept that side of me as well, despite the fact that I would say that most of today's narrative here is, you know, be an individual and speak up for yourself and all these things, which is, you know, again, it's, it's great. Um, but yeah, I, I think it's a very interesting, um, intersection to be at.
It's okay. I wanna, I wanna get this out the way. It's, it's actually interesting because it's good. It's, it's, it's been the opposite for me growing up. Um, I, I feel like I've had to teach myself to be quiet and compliant my first few years living out here because, like I said, like it was, it was always embarrassing for me to like, speak up if I needed to.
Like, if anyone said any racial slurs towards me, I would just be like. Embarrassed to say anything or to speak up, but my parents and my grandma, they're different. Like my mom and my grandma are super tough. They're, they're, they will say something back if, if, if they felt like they were being, you know, stereotyped or racially profiled or anything like that.
Like my grandma would be the one who would be like, at Ross and if someone was like mocking her, which. Actually happened, um, we were checking out at Ross and, uh, somebody was like mocking her because she, you know, she, she had an accent. She spoke English, but she has an accent and somebody was mocking her.
My grandma would totally be the one to be like, excuse me, to just say something, say that to my face type of grandma. You know what I mean? So growing up, my mom and my grandma were the ones that'd be like, no, speak up, like, fight back. But I'd be like. I don't know. 'cause you guys aren't experiencing what I'm experiencing where I'm, there's only like three, three other Asians in my school.
Like, if I spoke up, they'd make even more fun of me, you know what I mean? Like they, you, I just didn't feel like anyone would have my back if I spoke up. So growing up, um, I didn't, I didn't wanna be loud, you know? I didn't, I, I wanted to be quiet and neutral and, uh, I guess it took. It, it, it took, it took a while for me to be comfortable with the fact that, you know, I, I can speak up and, and I have the right to speak up and I have a voice.
Um, so I, I obviously, I like the direction of, uh, the way things are going now, because there's definitely a lot more people speaking up about these kinds of experiences. But yeah, like growing up or my first few years living here, I, I was compliant. I was quiet and I, and I preferred. To be quiet. 'cause I felt like it was embarrassing if I spoke up, you know?
But. Like, and, and my grandma also like, um, going back to what, um, Kara asked, you asked if, or how I feel about, you know, your, your grandparents going out in public and if, if I feel like it's safe for them or whatever. Like I said, like my grandma is super tough. She lived out here alone by herself for more than, more than a decade before the rest of the family moved out here.
And, uh, so she's just used to doing things. By herself and on her own, you know, grocery shopping work, all of that. So she still does that, and to this day, she's like, no, I'm fine. I'm gonna go get her groceries by myself. Don't worry about me. She's independent. It's just like, that's how she's, you know, programmed.
So we'll do little things like, oh, we already had it taken care of, but we won't tell her because my grandma, like I said, like she's just, if, if we even tell her like, no, we'll, we'll do it for you. She'll be like, no, what do you think of me helpless type? She's that type of grandma. So we'll just get it out of the way for her.
Without even telling her, because that's just how she's, that's how, how she is. But yeah, I, I feel like little things like that will just get it out of the way for her because I, I am worried about her. We're worried about her, and, um, it doesn't help that she's not scared. Um, in a way I kind of want her to just be a little more like, I guess, uh, I don't know.
My grandma's fearless and, and, and, and, and knowing that kind of. It makes me nervous because I want her to be a little more careful. But she's, she's tough and she's fearless, so she's gonna be out there. She's, she doesn't wanna stay in the house, you know? So little things like doing her groceries without her even asking or without us telling her, you know, we'll do little things like that.
But other than that, my grandma's a tough cookie. Like, she's like, I'm not staying in the house. You're not gonna get me to stay my ass in the house. Well, I think the biggest key to success is really knowing who you are. So in the Little Brown book I talk about the 12 core archetypes, and one of the archetypes is the rubble.
There's another archetype that's the heroine. And then on the opposite, opposite spectrum, right? They're, they're the people who are the idealist. I am. I show up in the world as the Maven, which is the teacher and also the leader. And so if you know how. What your innate qualities are. I think that you could definitely make a dent in the universe because you understand how you work.
I didn't know that I, I leaned towards, uh, being a maven or a teacher, and even though I was doing it naturally, but after I took the test and I'm like, oh, okay. And so for me, like how I wanna approach this problem is let's educate. And let's just show up, you know, with excellence. Other people who are the rebels are just like, let's get down, let's beat them down.
You know? And other people who are heron, you know, they're, they're advocates, you know, they're, they're probably the, the lawyers who are, who are stepping up. And I think it's important to, you know, hold, you know, our politicians accountable, you know, and I think that, um, there are. And these archetypes are universal, so it doesn't matter what race you are, these are archetypes, um, that you fall into.
And I just think that you're a blend of, blend of both. But as far as my, my in-laws are in New Jersey and. I remember a couple years ago when they were visiting us here in Santa Monica. Uh, my father-in-law was just like, you know, I, I, I saw this guy and I said, what are you looking at? And I'm just like, this is Santa Monica.
We're pretty diverse here. Like, what are you talking about? Like, sometimes I think because of his past, like he would see things that may, may or not may have not been there, but now that I see that everything's happening, I, I asked my husband this morning, I'm just like, are they gonna go grocery shopping because he's 86 and he likes to walk and, but he had.
Brain aneurysm, like, you know, he used to be able to beat people, but not anymore, you know? So I am worried about them. And my parents in Hawaii, you know, they, they're very sick stage four cancer. So they're, they're home body. So I'm, my, my sister's taking care of, they're not going out and getting groceries.
Well, and I know, um, no, no. You shared an experience with your daughter. Of how you found out in a roundabout way, how people were teasing her. And maybe you wanna share that experience and, um, you know, how you, how you dealt with it and, and how you're working with your kids in processing all of this stuff.
Yeah. So, um, I found my daughter in the bathroom. She was supposed, my daughter is three and a half. She was supposed to be brushing her teeth and I found her laughing to herself. So I go in, I'm like, are you brushing her teeth? And she was doing this in the mirror and laughing at herself in the mirror. And I.
What do I do moment? Like, do I engage and like, whatcha doing? Do I react at all? Like, because she thinks it's funny. And so I, I, I asked, oh, did somebody do that to you? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, where? She's like, on the playground. I'm like, which playground? The school playground. I haven't in since, since the pandemic started.
So is this, are you like in like overhearing the news and this is just resurfacing? Or are you talking about the playground that we go to That's biased school. Like, I'm like freaking out and I'm like, okay, don't react, be, be cool, be cool because if I react, she's going to think something's wrong or. And so I tried not to draw attention to it, and it was, it was kind of heartbreaking for me because I want that innocence to last longer.
I don't want to have that talk with her about, oh, they were actually making fun of you and this is how you can respond and, and I feel like. There was one, there was one picture that I didn't draw at the end of that comic. It was about a year ago. We were in a bookstore and, um, she was looking at picture books and she saw a book with, on, on the cover of the book was the, the Face of a Black Girl.
And she goes over there and she goes, monkey monkey. My husband and I wanted to like melt into the floor. We were so horrified that our little girl was doing this, and so I, I bring this up just to show that we can't always be the victims. We're the perpetrators, and we, we have a responsibility to, to educate our children.
Um, that as Daniel Tiger says, in some ways we are different, but in so many ways we are the same. He has a little jingle and we sing it all the time. In some ways we are different and in so many ways we are the same. And so, um. So, um, so I, I just recently we've been, we've been showing, we've been buying books that have more diverse, um, people in them.
And I, I love Sesame Street because there all sorts of puppets and people that are all sorts of colors and people that have different disabilities and they, it just. It just shows her that there are people who don't look like us in the world, and this is to be embraced. So yeah, it's been, it's been a process.
I, I'd love to hear how Kika you have, you have addressed this with your own, own children. Yeah, so my children when, okay, so my, my daughter was bullied for three months. I didn't know that she was bullied, but I think it was for a different reason because she skipped. First grade. So she went from kindergarten to second grade.
And what happened there was, I, I, I also give, try to give people the benefit of doubt, which she was the only Asian girl there, but I think it was the insecurity of the parents who, when they see someone that's smart, you know, or whatever, like they were talking bad about Malia and so the kids were also.
Not treating her well and so I didn't know that. But for three months she kept quiet because she was, she was, she just didn't wanna, you know, say anything. And then, um. Um, and the, the, the little, sorry, the white, the little white girls were really sneaky. They were not hitting her with her hands. They were hitting her, them with her stomach, you know, so like, and then she would fall, and then one day, who, you know, she's like a high achiever.
She didn't wanna go to school. I'm just like, what happened? You know, like, but my first instinct was not race, it was just, okay. I can see where she's changed the dynamic of the, of the classroom. It's very, very small classroom. And, um. And I didn't know how to really deal with it. And I went straight to the mom, you know, and I think I was supposed to go straight to the dean, but I wasn't.
You know when, when you, when you know, a little Tasmanian devil comes, comes out, you know what, especially like a mama bear. Like, you wanna, you wanna defend. And, uh, but I learned my lesson that, but my automatic reaction was not, oh, it's because she's Asian. Uh, it, it was, it wasn't that. And so, um, I usually don't, you know, assume that it's because of race.
Yeah. But, but I do like your comment about like how we do it to each other because in Hawaii, like we had kill Howley day, you know, like growing up in a public school, like, which the Cali means white, you know, like we had those days and then separately they would have like kill Chinese Day. Like it was just part of like our culture to like harass other Asian races.
So, and um, yeah, so we have, we have a long way to go.
You all have very vast and, and broad, uh, career paths. All of you. Have you experienced anything in the workplace that, you know, I, as you mentioned, I think so well earlier, Sierra, that you're both battling, um, you know, whatever you're getting as an Asian American, but also as a woman. So. Have you always put any issues in the workplace into the same bucket, or have there been clear incidences where there have been a specific, um, racist incident that you've experienced in your career journeys?
Or, I can just think about a couple things. I mean, yeah, I think it, I think it can be a combination and it's always hard and like you, you said, click it. Like, I think we all want to. Try and give the benefit of the doubt to people. Because if we allow, if we admit it to ourselves that maybe it was a racist or a sexist or combo thing, then it kind of opens up this whole, you know, it opens up a dam of like feelings and our history and our personal stuff.
So, but I would say, um, you know, the only times, I mean, I think it definitely depends on like what type of job or what field and like, um, almost always, you know, of course being a. Asian American, and then also being an Asian American woman. Um, means I'm like, maybe one of the only ones there, or, you know, there might be a few others and that's very exciting.
Or there might be more women, or there might be more Asian Americans. Um, namely, yeah, probably more women, I guess. That makes sense. But, um, I, I guess, you know, I've had the usual, like I. A boss that I worked with for a long time calls me the name of like the other Asian woman who's like, not even in the same realm.
Um, you know, and, and so certain things where you feel a little bit like unappreciated and then there's some, you know, racism mixed up in there, but it's like not enough, you know? And then I'm always, it's typically lower on the, I am typically lower in the totem pole, so I'm not gonna raise an issue. Right.
But I think that's what I've kind of, um, also learned from other friends. Uh. Uh, I guess just the fact that like, you know, so often I've been so grateful to have other, like people of color and other, uh, women that I work with because it's just so nice to have somebody to be like, Hey, that guy just did that thing.
And then they go, oh yeah, it happened to me like five times already. You know? So I think, and that's frustrating that that's our only outlet. Like, I wish I could address the boss, but I think we know that there's like kind of a culture of. It's fragility, right? Like getting called out about your own racism or your own sexism makes you feel initially very defensive and like, I mean, I'm not a bad person, and all these things that have nothing to do with what just went down so.
I think just to protect ourselves, oftentimes we do have to feel like, um, you know, try to overlook it until we have the power maybe to speak up about it. And I think that dynamic is changing because hopefully people are more open to seeing that they have biases and stuff, but I definitely haven't. Yet gotten to that point necessarily.
Um, on the flip side, I've, I feel like the, my current place of work has a lot of Asian Americans. I'm working on a animated show, so a lot of the animators, some, some of even the higher up producers, which is great. And so immediately when the, the. Tragedy happened in Atlanta. They held like a, a meeting and I thought that was really nice, like, um, coming directly from the top to be like, here's a forum to just like chat it out.
And like obviously it's, it wasn't organized or anything. We were just kind of meeting right away. And um, that was just kind of nice knowing that they were aware of what was going on. Because I think especially if you are an employer and you have employees who are going through something, you know. In the world, emotionally or personally or whatnot, um, just like allowing that space for them to be like, Hey, I need an extension.
Um, I am really not feeling great about this and I don't think it should be on the employee to ask for that. You know? So I think it was really, that was actually a positive reaction for sure.
Um, from, from my experience, I've definitely been in situations where I feel like I was only getting booked for the Asian image. Um, most recent one that I can remember is I did the official Oscars after party for parasite. I was gonna say last year, 'cause I don't count 2020 and my, my, my sense of date is like all outta whack.
But, uh, so that, that was two years ago. I did the Oscar party for Parasite and I was like, I kept thinking, I was like, did I get booked for this because I'm Asian, you know what I mean? And, and, and there there's, there is a, an agency in specific, um, that has booked me predominantly for, for Asian events.
Like I did the, the Bruce Lee, um. The Bruce Lee Premier, and it is just, it's just little things like that that make me wonder, like, was I only getting booked solely because of my Asian image? Am I only getting these opportunities because I'm Asian? You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it limited me in a box where you can only book me because I'm Asian and you're booking me for, for Asian events, you know, like, like even the Bruce Lee one, I remember specifically in the dress code that they asked me to dress in, you know, like Oriental style or to play.
For one to play Oriental style music. And I'm like, what the hell is oriental style music? Now? I'm like, do I think, do you think that people that are coming to this premier party really want to hear Oriental style music? But that's just the stereotype. They think that because it's gonna be predominantly Asians coming to this party, they're gonna want to hear Oriental style music, which I have no idea what the hell or an cell music is.
You know what I mean? So, so I mean, but then I try to look at it in the, in the sense of, you know, I, maybe I'm getting, I'll see it as an opportunity, like I'm getting booked. For this period. That's it. It's an opportunity. So I should just be grateful that I'm even getting booked for it. But then again, you know, when I come home, it's like, I really feel like I just got booked for that because I'm Asian and they needed an Asian face on stage.
'cause you know, it, it makes them look like, you know, we're, we're inclusive and we're, you know, you know what I mean? So, so, and it still happens. It still exists. It still exists. It's not like it's something that's, you know, like we, we haven't gotten rid of it. And like I said, like what I, what I mentioned earlier, I feel like it's easier for me to be, it was always easier for me to be neutral and just not speak up about it because I didn't wanna embarrass myself because, like I said, like the person next to me probably can't relate, or, or the, the person next to, to me will be like, oh my God, she's like throwing a fit type shit.
But. I like how now it's, I'm, I'm more comfortable speaking up about shit like that. 'cause now I do, I do talk about it and I'll, I'll, I'll, you know, I'll express my feelings or how I feel about it, opinions or anything like that. And the person next to me will feel the same way and have my back and, and you know, like I, I, I like that I, I like where things are going now where.
We have each other's backs and we can speak up about stuff like that. And people who have been suppressed about it are, are comfortable talking out about it, which includes myself. 'cause I used to never be comfortable talking about it, you know?
So as an entrepreneur, I mean, I've gotten it. The entire time I'm an entrepreneur, one, I belong to the Entrepreneur's Organization. And you know, when I go to events with my husband, they automatically assume that he's the, you know, he's the entrepreneur. I'll sit at events and they're, they'll be like, where's the bathroom?
And I'm just like. I, can you tell me where the bathrooms, I don't know. You know, like I'm sitting in the front row, they think I'm like the admin assistant, but you know, that could also just be, you know, like a woman gender roles. But I, I do believe that, you know, it's important to have people that have your back.
You know, when I'm with other entrepreneur men who know and understand what my values are. I remember there was this other, uh, you know, white guy. He, he, I think he, he was super, super drunk and so he came from behind and he was like. Trying to hug me or something like that. And a whole bunch of my other white entrepreneur friends were just like, leave her, like, leave her alone.
I, I also was just like, step back, I'm just like, do you know what this looks like? Like I know that we're in the same tribe and everything, but like, yo, I'm married. You know, like also knowing like who you are I think is really, really important. And I could have defended myself themselves, but they, they sort, sort of like was just like.
Get offer, you know, which I think was really, really nice. But I think understanding who yourself, what you stand for and what aligns with your values, you know, you can put yourself in the situations that that make sense for you. You know, you can, you know, you can decide. I think that once you decide what your values are, you only have to decide things once, you know, you don't have to show up and say like, Hmm.
Should I belong to this racist G group? You know, like just don't, just don't show up anymore. And I also believe that, you know, it's really important to focus on the goal and everything else is noise. So if you, you do have, uh, goals that you wanna achieve, you know, because I think that in order for things to change, people that look like us need to show up.
Power. And if you don't, you know, take the steps to, to, to, to grab that power or you know, or just, or just show up with excellence so that the power is given to you. Um, it's not gonna change because we need to see more of, more of us in media showing up in a big way. Yeah. I really resonate with, oh, sorry.
Go ahead. I was just saying. I agree. Yes. Go. I really, um, resonate with what Kaliko was saying about knowing yourself. Um, I attended one of those hollaback bystander training things, um, recently, and I like how they give you a bunch of options and whatever you are comfortable with, and I, I think. I'm very, um, I shy away from confrontation, so I'm more the type that doesn't want to engage with the, um, the person who's making the racist remark or whatever.
And I think it, it's helpful to kind of talk to each other about it and develop your own collection of phrases that you can throw out when you see or when you. When you hear something like in the workplace, when somebody makes a snide remark or a racist comment, you can be like, oh, what do you, what do you mean by that?
And it's, it doesn't come off as super, you know, aggressive. But I think it in, in my way, it kind of flags it a little bit. It's like, that's a little bit, and I feel like that's, I, I don't take things, um. These racist, like people at work will be like me. How? And I don't, it doesn't offend me when they do that.
I found that that's like the gateway joke into, like, I've had people at work start doing the Neha thing and then they, their jokes just get progressively more and more inappropriate, um, to the point where they were like making fun of. Holocaust survivors and I was like, whoa, how did we get here? You thought I was okay with Thehow.
And it just, and so I think we, we have to kind of in our own way, be able to put up a yellow light and be like, I don't think those quite okay. Um, so it doesn't progress into something where we're like, how did we find ourselves in this situation? Well, it makes me think of how, you know, we've talked a lot about the support, right?
We need our circle, we need people who we can talk to about this and you know who, who has your back? And I hear such an opportunity as. Not someone who's Asian American, clearly that, how can I make sure that if I, if I hear something said to somebody else or in my space, like I have to talk about it because it's not directed at me.
So how can, how can I say like, hold on. Like I heard that that's not okay. Or if you know someone who said something to check 'em, right? Like it's. Even in this world where there's so many opportunities to get educated and informed, there's so much on education and ignorance and obliviousness and, you know, it's, it's amazing to me, like, I think all of us experience something, we're like, oh.
That is not okay, and I didn't know it was okay until right now, and now we have to stop it ever again. It doesn't matter what it is, right? There's so many things in that spectrum. So in, in that space, what can, what can non-Asian Americans do to support you guys? What can we do? How can we be more? Because I told Nona when I saw her illustration, I was ready to time machine back with her and, and beat the guy up who was so rude to her.
So like, time machine's not an option. What, like, how, how can we all support you and the Asian American community?
Okay, I'll be quick. Um. Like, I, like I've told all my friends, 'cause my friends ask me the same thing, you know? And, and that's them being proactive with what's going on. They ask me like, how can we help you? Um, I think it starts with your own circle individually starts with your own circle. And it could be little things, it could be anything and everything from reposting something, but, but don't get repost happy.
You know? I, I, I feel like some people are just like, repost happy. And it's like, no, I want you to read what you're reposting, educate yourselves. On what you're reposting. And, and I think that's why, like I said, I really, and, and I, I've put such an emphasis on just, you know, being active on social media about things like this, because it's that easy to educate somebody.
All you have to do is post something. And, um, there are people who just, you know, tap through and won't pay attention. But there's also people that do. So any anybody that you can reach, if it's two people, if it's 10 people, if it's hundreds or thousands of people, it matters. So. Educating somebody in little ways like that, you know, it, it, it matters.
It makes a big difference. Um, like I said, like I don't, I don't get to repost happy. 'cause I feel like too much of it is just if, if someone is consuming too much of it, they tend to not pay attention. Um, and, and, you know, starting with your friends, I tell my friends, Hey, if you see something, just, just be aware.
Just be attentive, be cautious, all of that. Um. Yeah, it starts with educating yourselves and, uh, it's, it's really, it's, it's just paying attention. You know, if, if you see it, you know what's going on. And, and some people are just ignorant and insensitive. So if you see something, if you see someone being ignorant and insensitive, I would check them and, and, but, but I wouldn't be obnoxious about it.
I would just be like, you know, Hey. Some people are not aware of that. Some people probably just need to be like, sat down and you just need to talk to them in, in, in a, in a casual manner. You don't need to be obnoxious about it, you know what I mean? Like, I have friends who have said things that are outta line, but I know that, you know, they might not mean any harm.
They're just ignorant to that. And, and, and, and I, and I can't be mad at those people because if, if they've never experienced it, they don't know any better. So my way of of educating them is letting them know, Hey, this is insensitive, and this is why, because I went through this, my family went through this.
And, you know, that's, that's, that's a small way that I, I feel like I can educate somebody just letting, letting these people know, like, I went through this, my family went through this, and that's it. Yeah. I, I'm not mad at you, you're just, I understand that you're not aware, so I'm gonna educate you and. In that way by sharing stories and even something like this, we're sharing stories with each other and personal experiences.
So that's, that's, that's my approach.
No, I think that's great. Thank you. Um. I first wanna take a moment just to thank all of you for being here. This I'm, you know, so thankful that you are a guest to Powerful Ladies and this panel, and sharing your experience and your stories and your perspectives. Um, we started this conversation series because we want to have the conversations that we know we should and nobody else is.
So I'm really thankful for you guys being a yes. To having, having the hard conversation and making them less hard as we have more of them. Um, I would love to give you guys each, a few, uh, minutes to tell everybody what you're up to and how to find you and support you. You all have a lot going on and I, um, my perspective is that part of changing the conversation is celebrating all the awesome things that are happening in these different communities.
So, um, you know, I'll start with you again. No, no. What are you up to? How people support you? And we'll go around for the panelists. Um, I don't, I'm like in the midst of all these cool people and I don't know why I'm here. I, I just doodle on Instagram, so if you wanna follow me on Instagram, it's not always about race.
It's mostly about how I'm so awkward in the world. Um, I just wanna echo what Bella just said about, um, kind of educating each other, I think. I, I, I was listening to, um, some of the other racism conversations that you were having, Kara, and those are like crescendo and every other sentence. I was like, amen.
Preach. I think we're just more a little more quiet and it, it's really helpful when. Other people can amplify our voices and, and just kind of advocate. And sometimes that has to do, um, sometimes you can do that just by the, the activation energy to, to call something out is sometimes overwhelming, especially to me.
So when somebody. Does the, the initial, Hey, I saw that, that didn't seem cool. Like, do you wanna talk about that is enough to make me feel like, okay, I'm not crazy or alone in this. So that's what my Instagram, if you need some shoes to be designed, I'm, yeah, I can do that for you too. But thanks for having me.
Sierra. Great. Oh, yes. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for holding this. Um, yeah, I, I, I guess also Instagram. You could find me. It's my name, S-A-E-R-A-K-T-O-W. Um, I also agree. Yeah, I think. It would be so cool if people, I'm just really loving that people are taking at least some, you know, interest in Asian American history as well.
I think that's like a really untapped area that people, that I even have to feel like I have to like, dig into the archives to learn about, you know, and, and not a lot of schools teach certain things, um, about Asian American history. I know PBS had a docuseries that they had made free, I don't know if it's still free on their website, but check that out.
Starting from like the first Asian American. Who's from the Philippines all the way to, you know, recent, more recent events, and that would be really cool. And I think another small thing, I do believe in reaching out to your Asian American friends and just checking in on them. I think that like, it's an awkward thing where people like don't wanna talk about race and then that actually ends up, you know, making.
People feel, um, lonely. So in this scenario, I think it's okay to talk about race. Um, and Asian Americans are obviously thinking about this all the time, so you won't, like, remember, they won't, you won't like remind them and be like, oh my God, I can't believe what. Um, so yeah, I think that's such a, I've been really happy when friends reach out because it kind of makes us feel at least a little bit more seen.
So please do that.
How humble you are. Sorry. Um, we can also watch your work on a lot of very cool streaming places, so maybe you wanna tell us people how they can watch some of your amazing work? Yeah. Oh, oh, right. Yeah. I do stand up. So my, a lot of my standup comedy is on, uh, YouTube. Um, if you just search my name and stand up, uh, I do have a lot of bits on Asian American identity, you know, in varying times at different.
Parts of my life. Um, and I am, let's see, I guess I wrote for Earth to net on Disney Plus, if anybody wants to watch that, I have a podcast stay positive that I have kind of halted, but I did do a special episode talking about these issues if anybody wants to listen to that most recent one. And I also, um, uh, did a couple little voices in Raya in the last Dragon, if anybody wants to watch that.
Fun. Yes. Disney, Asian American, Southeast Asian, uh, themed movie. Yes, and you've also been a Powerful Ladies Podcast guest, so everybody can learn more about you on your episode. Yes, yes. Thank you. Of course. Of course. Kika. Well, I just wanna end by saying that anytime we have an unconscious belief system, it always sets up us up for failure.
So just being able to examine what we really believe is true and being able to challenge that. I think that the 21st century skill is to unlearn and relearn, and when you do that and come, come to any type of issue, uh, solving for X, you know, uh, um. With an open mind, with a beginner's mind, I think is, is where we can move our culture to one of, not outrage, but of compassion.
Um, yeah, then my whole goal is to help a million female founders make at least a million dollars in revenue and create a million jobs. So if anyone has a business idea, sign up for my newsletter. My creative agency, orange or Bergman, is just for female founders. My other agency such as studios is for everyone.
Um. But yeah, I'm, I'm excited to be here and thank you, Kara, for bringing us all together. I think that this was a really exciting conversation and I'm so glad to meet all of you. You, um, wonderful, wonderful panelists. Thank you so much. I. Three. Cheers for everyone making a million dollars. I like that game.
Right. Everybody should be playing that one. Well, a mi a minimum. Exactly. Exactly. We're not stopping there. Uh, last but not least, Bella, what are you up to? How can we support you? Where can we see you? Um, you guys can find me on social media. Everything is at DJ Bella Fiasco. Um, and I stream on Twitch on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
That's Twitch tv slash dj Bella Fiasco. Um, I don't know. I feel like I'm just doing my part by playing. Music for people who are stuck at home like myself. Um, but I know we're, you know, slowly getting out there and, um, but I'm still streaming on Twitch. Uh, yeah, music is therapy, so if that fits your vibe, uh, come hang out with us.
We play, we listen to music together, and I play music for, for, for people. So yeah. At DJ Bella Fiasco. Thank you guys for having me and Kara, I really appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Honestly, it is such an honor to have all of you here and have everyone that came in as a guest and to listen. Um, feel free, please reach out, follow everyone, ask your questions as you need to in dms.
Um, we do more of these conversations. We'll be continuing them. We're about to. Just start planning our one year anniversary from our Black Lives Matter conversation That kind of kicked these all off. Um, and we do wanna cover other topics between body image. There's so much, right? There's so many things that powerful women should be talking about together to move things forward.
Um, part of why we have powerful ladies success, we know what an influence we all have in our communities and our families and everywhere. So, um, together, I know that all us powerful ladies can move some big mountains, so we're gonna keep pushing for that. Um, anyone who wants to make sure you know about that, get on our newsletter.
Follow powerful ladies on Instagram. If you have any other questions, you can always reach me, kara@thepowerfulladies.com. And yeah, I can't wait to have this next conversation. Thank you guys so much and have an amazing weekend.
Thank you for listening to this special episode in our commitment to continuing the conversation of racism and solutions to racism in America, as well as other important discussions we should be having as the democracy and as powerful ladies, we'll be having more of these powerful conversation events.
Subscribe to our newsletter and make sure you're following us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies to make sure you get the fastest alerts for our next events. And don't forget to check out our Powerful Ladies Thrive membership. Where it's a community of powerful women rising. We're continuing this conversation as well.
You can follow and connect with our panelists on Instagram. No, no. Go is at nono. Go Kika Yap is at Kika. Yap. Sierra Kato is Sierra Kato. DJ Bella Fiasco at DJ Bella Fiasco. In the meantime, be safe. Be loud. Be the leaders we need. Be awesome. And up to something you love.
Related Episodes
Episode 122: Helping 1 Million Women Earn $1 Million | Kalika Yap | Serial Entrepreneur & Branding Expert
Episode 230: From Donut Shop to Digital Empire | Mayly Tao | Donut Princess, Author & Brand Consultant
Episode 77: Breaking Barriers in Comedy | Sierra Katow | Stand-Up Comic, TV Writer & Producer
You can follow & connect with our panelists on Instagram here:
NoNo Go @nono_go
Kalika Yap @kalikayap
Sierra Katow @sierrakatow
DJ Bella Fiasco @djbellafiasco
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
