Episode 110: Understanding the Intersection of Tech and Humanity | Lauren Goode | Emmy-Winning Journalist & Host of Gadget Lab
Lauren Goode is an Emmy-winning journalist, senior writer at Wired, and co-host of the Gadget Lab podcast. Her work covers the intersection of technology and humanity, from how we use consumer tech products to the cultural and ethical questions they raise. Lauren shares her journey from covering the NFL and producing video at The Wall Street Journal to interviewing tech leaders, exploring emerging products, and challenging Silicon Valley to think bigger about its role in society. She talks about the impact of events like the 2008 financial crisis on her career, the lessons learned from mentors like Walt Mossberg, and why she is drawn to stories about people solving the world’s biggest problems. This is a conversation for anyone curious about technology’s role in shaping our future and how journalism can hold it accountable.
“I want to know about people who are working on solutions to bigger problems who are really trying to help save humanity. When people are really passionate about something you need to lean into that passion. Own it.”
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Clark University
Worcester, MA
Wired Magazine
San Francisco
TedTalk
Apple
Steve Jobs
Black Mirror
Financial Literacy
Retirement Plans
Taxes
NFL Internship Debate
2008 Financial Crisis
Wall Street Journal
Twitter
Walt Mossberg
Grant Hill
Shaq
South By Southwest
The Last Dance
Portugal
Nazare, Portugal
Lisbon
Garret McNamara
London
Argentine Rugby Team
Wait, But Why Blog
TLDR - Too Long Didn’t Read
Disney+
Stargirl Movie
Billie Eilish
Chuck Taylors
Apple+
Billie Eilish Documentary
Menari
A Good Provider is One Who Leaves - book
Braiding the SweetGrass - book
Botanist
Like Streams to the Ocean - book
Business Made Simple by Donald Miller - book
YogaZama Psychotherapeutic Yoga Teacher Training
Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism - book
30 Rock
Dump & Run
Jenna Boutin’s Powerful Ladies Podcast Episode
Courtney Oroszko’s Powerful Ladies Podcast Episode
Kara Swisher
Nick Thompson - ex Wired
Dave Jorgenson
Washington Post
TikTok -
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Meet Lauren Goode
04:15 Early Career in Sports and Video Production
07:50 Breaking into Technology Journalism
12:20 From The Wall Street Journal to Wired
16:00 Lessons from Covering Apple and Silicon Valley
20:45 Why the 2008 Financial Crisis Changed Everything
25:10 Mentorship from Walt Mossberg
29:40 Launching the Gadget Lab Podcast
33:15 How Technology Shapes Human Behavior
37:00 The Ethics of Emerging Tech
41:20 Telling Stories That Solve Big Problems
45:35 Exploring Migration in the 20th Century
47:14 Highlighting Indigenous Voices in Science
50:00 The Role of Curiosity in Journalism
53:33 Modern Technology in Historical Context
56:00 Lauren’s Favorite Interviews and Stories
59:45 Advice for Aspiring Journalists
There's this now emerging category of tech that's gonna change our lives. That's a little bit harder for people to grasp. You're talking about like fundamental shifts, but it's not like something you literally hold in your pocket. Mm-hmm. So it is, it's like a little bit harder to grasp and I think that adds to like it's, it feels like our pallets have changed a little bit for technology.
That's Lauren. Good. And this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and in this episode you get to meet one of my best friends and most interesting people in my life. Lauren Goode. She's an Emmy award-winning journalist and writer who for the past decade has been specializing. In tech journalism. It is now based in Silicon Valley. She worked for the Wall Street Journal, all things d Recode, the Verge, E-S-P-N-A and E and more.
And you can see her current work@wire.com and on her podcast Gadget Lab. Before we jump into this episode, I want to remind you the best decision you can make today is to be more you. I want you to bring all of you your quirks, where you nerd out what you love, all the things that make you awesome to your work, to your business, and to your brands.
Why? Because when you are more you, you'll feel happier. Love what you're doing, make the real impact that you want to. And here's the business pro tip, you'll make more money too. Wanna learn how to do that and do it well? You have two exciting options. First. Join my Powerful Ladies Thrive membership@thepowerfulladies.com, where we get to hang out twice a week and cover this topic and so many more to help you thrive in your life and business.
Second, if you're ready for more personalized and right now, I need to get this done approach, book a free consultation call with me@karaduffy.com.
Well, Lord, thank you for being on The Powerful Ladies podcast. Thanks for having me on. Kara, it's so great to see you over zoom on this sunny Sunday morning. I know we're so old school, we usually just call each other, so it is nice to see your face and my Clark sweatshirt. See? Yes. Yes. Clarky. This is probably the second oldest piece of clothing that I own.
I'm, I realize that I keep clothes for a very long time, and Jessie thinks it's weird, like I think I even have some t-shirts from like middle school, but. Why, why give 'em up if you love them and they're comfy. Not only if you love them, but, and this is where we're probably gonna start to sound a little, we're going, we're going to age ourselves a little bit.
It feels like clothes were made better back then. Like this sweatshirt is like a really great material. And I compare it to this sweatshirt I bought from grad school, and I'm like, oh, this one is so much better. And I'm pretty sure I bought this in like 2003. Yeah, it was, it was indestructible at this point.
Yes. Mm-hmm. Um, well, we've totally skipped over who you are and what you're up to, so please tell everybody listening to those things. Uh, sure. I am formerly Kara Duffy's housemates. That's probably just all you need to know about me. So, um, you know, I, I know where all the bodies are buried and, uh, but she also knows that about me.
So, um, I, my name is Lauren. Lauren. Good. And am I supposed to say my full name? All right. My name is Lauren. Good. Yes. And I, um, first got to know Kara at Clark University in Worcester, Massachusetts, in, I guess it was, oh. Last century technically. And Kara, I think the first time we met you may have had just broken your nose.
Uh, yes. 'cause I think I met everyone in school right when you just broken my nose. Yeah, right. Like lucky you, you know, first few days of, of freshman year, of college and, and you had like a Phantom of the opera style mask on your face. Yes. Yes. As I've been watching March Madness, um, there is a player from Illinois who has that same mask.
And every time I see him play, I am like, I know how that feels buddy. I know how it feels. Yes, you look tough. Thank you. Yeah, did definitely. It's definitely intimidating. Um, there's definitely a little like Hannibal Lecter face mask thing that happens when you're having one of those. But I don't know, as a girl and being a freshman in college and not knowing anybody, it may be where like me not caring what people think like comes from.
'cause you just have to give it up. You're like, whatever. Like they'll know who I am 'cause I'm mask girl. But that's not really the first impression I wanted to make. Right. And I actually think the first impression you made, um, I remember talking to Jenna who was my direct roommate, and Jenna was who you were playing field hockey with.
And she told me right off the bat that you, I think were the fastest runner on the team. On the team. Like you wowed people with your sprint times. So actually I think that's what I knew you for first. Okay. Well I like that better than the girl with the face mask who might be weird. We're not sure what's happening.
Yeah. And for everyone who's wondering what magical Lauren is up to, what do you do by day and what kind of cool things are you creating in the world? I am a journalist. I am currently, well currently I've been living in, uh, Silicon Valley for nearly eight years at this point. And um, prior to that I was living in New York City working as a journalist.
I've worked in media in some capacity. For about 18 years. But, um, I didn't become a full-time writer until around 2011. I'd been a video producer and worked in various, um, video newsrooms and then, but I really just always wanted to be focused primarily on writing and then do maybe do multimedia, um, sort of supplemental form of storytelling.
So, um, so yeah, I'm a senior writer at Wired Magazine, which is based in San Francisco. And it's funny to say things are based somewhere now because we're all working from home, but we do have offices in San Francisco that are currently empty. And, um, I write about technology, I write about consumer technology products, the way that people use technology products, um, the industry itself, the intersection of tech and culture.
And, uh, this may sound a little twee or Ted talkish, but, um, I like to say the intersection of tech and humanity because it just touches so many parts of our lives now. So that's, that's how I would describe what I do. And I love that. That's your, your niche, your intersection. It makes me think of Steve Jobs mission statement for Apple when he was there that they were making, using technology to advance humankind.
And you know, that's all the technology, that's what it's always been, right? But we think about it separate from us, and today we can't anymore. But I think about how many articles you've done on wearables in particular. Like, I remember there's like a whole series where I think you tested every wearable that's ever existed and like we're, it's literally in our bodies now.
It's no longer just on, it's in. And, um, we, we tend to forget that it's something that's changing us versus something that we use because, you know, all the engineers have done such a good job of making it think that it's separate from us and that we're using it, but. AI and all the creepy shows you can watch, like Black Mirror reminds you that maybe it's not right.
Right. Yeah. You've, I think you've touched on two different elements there, which is this idea, uh, that there are some technologists that do speak in platitudes and, you know, believe that there app is going to change the world, and in some cases they do. Um, and then there's sort of that dystopian element too.
Mm-hmm. The Black Mirror ask like, where's this all going and what are the questions we need to be asking? And there is, um, you know, you're right, like technology has always changed us and changed our lives. When I think about different eras of innovation or even revolution, the industrial revolution, or, um, the ways we even used to communicate, like when you and I were growing up, right?
Like the, the telephone as an example. Um mm-hmm. The lines didn't feel so blurred, I don't think, between, um, our usage of the technology and, um, then like, sort of the rest of our lives. Mm-hmm. Um, there were enhancements, there were new problems that arose, but there was some, some kind of delineation, I think.
And now, um, it tech is just everywhere and we u we're, we're using it, we're using Zoom right now. Um mm-hmm. And it's, it's affecting, um, our relationships, our mental health. It's affecting, it's affecting so much. Um, and there's this saying, uh, that you hear where people say if, if you don't know, if you're not paying for the product, you have to be concerned that you are the product.
Mm-hmm. And, um, that certainly feels true for some of, for some of the applications that we use regularly. So, I mean, that said, um, I would say that we take a very exploratory approach to technology wired. Um, some might even call it optimistic. But, um, but yeah, I do think there are really important questions we need to be asking right now about how tech is changing our lives and whether it's, that's, that's all for the good.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and the idea that if you're not paying for it, you're, the product goes beyond what we consider tech. Like technically everyone listening to this podcast right now, like you didn't pay for it, so you're the product. Right, right. We're, we're gonna try to sell you socks at some point during this podcast, just so you know, tea or I know Square website building companies we're, we're on it.
Yeah. Have you tried Blue Apron? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Um, but we forget that, right? We're like, Ooh, I want it for free. And it's like, hold on. Like, I, I want people to be more suspicious. Right. Not our, our dialogue in the, in this country has felt like it's gone. Obviously, we, we've all talked about how it's become very, um, dividing.
But I would rather people be more suspicious than divisive because anything we hear, I'm first like, hold on, who said it? Where'd it come from? Right. And I, I think we need to remember to, to treat especially information coming the way it does today through all of this different technology and apps that we have, as if you're hearing it from a 6-year-old.
'cause that's probably the emotional intelligence of the technology we're using. And if a 6-year-old came to you saying something, you'd be like, really? Who said that? Do you have a photo? Let me see it. Is it really on fire? I'm not sure. It feels like you're describing Siri. Yes. Uh, but yeah, you're touching on news literacy, information literacy, which is so important and mm-hmm.
Um. I don't really know what the answer is to that, frankly. I mean, I have, I have some friends who are working on that problem. I have, um, my mentor who is now retired, is very involved in a news literacy project. Um, and they're trying to teach some of these lessons from, um, you know, a grade school mm-hmm.
Age kids and up and, and hopefully that means that future generations will come with that, that kind of, not only, you know, common sense, but ability to suss out what's valuable information and what's not, you know, from a very young age. But, um, but yeah, the disinformation, misinformation and like just a general, uh, lack of sort of understanding of what's being put out in the news sometimes I think is like, it's, it's a very real problem for people of all ages.
Yeah. And then I think back to when, when did I learn to doubt the information or like really do like having to figure out where those sources came from? And I don't think it was until college really, like maybe a little bit. In, excuse me, um, like AP English in high school, but
mm-hmm.
Yeah, we had to cite our work.
We had to show where we got our information and we wrote a paper, but we were taught to do it for the sake of the paper, not for the, necessarily the sake of having factual information. And I just keep getting caught up lately in how many core fundamental things we need to be adults in modern culture.
We're not teaching people like financial literacy, um, emotional intelligence, um, you know, how to handle significant things that happen to us in life. Um, I like, why are we skipping over those things? Like they, they occur to me as much harder to learn when you're older than math would be. What's an example of that?
Like where do you, where do you see that gap? Um, I definitely see it in financial literacy every day. Um, you know, whether that's. How, like people just not knowing how money works and taxes work and uh, you know, the, the perspective of, you know, even having a conversation of like, is a stimulus check good or bad?
Like, it sounds great to the person receiving it. Like, what's the impact? Like, because we, we don't see behind the curtain of how it's all connected and, and all the, the effects it has the shock waves that these things that seem obvious to say yes or no to. So financial literacy is huge. The number of people who are in debt or don't have a, any retirement plans or don't know why they're being taxed, what they do, or just how money works, like that's a big one.
Um, you know, I just had a, a, a good friend pass away and like handling death. Like no one teaches you what happens. Mm-hmm. So ev everyone ends up standing around being like, okay, we called 9 1 1 now. Right, right. And there's like the, and then after. Mm-hmm. You know, whoever needs to come after the police come, it's like, okay.
And now what? Because there's logistical things, there's emotional things, there's like, there's not a checklist for that. There probably is somewhere if we went down the Google rabbit hole. But, you know, relationships and emotional intelligence, like all these things that are core to where breakdowns tend to happen between people, I think we, we miss, um, sharing that stuff and I, I just see it as an opportunity of, you know, where there's such an education age right now.
Like how do we start doing some of that stuff again? Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think even romantic relationships, no one teaches you how to really do No, that is true. And, uh, you should probably not pay attention to rom-coms if you wanna have a healthy one, but, um, but Right. The well there, I mean, I think there are a few different things going on there, and one is.
I mean, one is just, there are events in life that you can't really plan for. Um, like the situation you're describing. If someone were to pass suddenly and you suddenly had to become financially literate on their affairs, um, you can't necessarily, you can plan to a point, but you just dunno what to expect in life.
And then the other thing is, is that I do think it's a certain privilege to have access to information, to have or to have people in your life who are able to teach you some of these life skills from a young age. And not everyone has that privilege. Mm-hmm. And then the third thought I go to is basically me as a journalist, you know, if I, if I were to hear some version of this complaint, but about technology, you know, I would sort of cycle through these thoughts and there there's a healthy amount of privilege involved and who has the means to, to access some of the, this, you know, these products.
And then I would think, okay, as a journalist, how can I help? Is there something I'm missing here that I could be doing better to help inform people? Um. Let's like assume that, you know, they're gonna get information from the source I'm putting it in. Right. Of course. We'll get it from different sources as well.
But, um, yeah, I just don't, I, I tend to be a little bit hesitant to like always put the onus on a person or the consumer. Um, you know, there's the, to go back to Steve Jobs, like there's this, you know, famous thing that he said around the time that the iPhone, I think it was the four or the four SI forget exactly which model, but it wasn't working properly, um, because of the way the antenna was engineered around the exterior of the exterior band of the phone.
And so when people were holding the phone in their hands, they were cutting off access to the cellular signal. And um, it ended up being called Antennagate. And like one of the famous things that he said to a reporter who had emailed him was like, well, you're holding it wrong. Which was obviously like shifting the blame for not getting something right on the consumer.
And like that's actually. No, that's a design flaw that's going to affect millions of your customers, and that's not their fault. Mm-hmm. So I tend to, you know, not want to say, well, if someone's not like super financially literate in something and we all could stand to learn more, um, about that. Yeah. Like, it's not, it may not be their fault, basically.
They may know. Totally agree. Yeah. But we had, we had a debate in the Powerful Ladies Thrive Group call on Thursday about internships. Right. Because there's this whole thing about should the NFL pay an intern or not? I have lots of opinions about that, which we can get into if you want to. But, um, my, the privilege thing came up, right.
And internships or, and apprenticeships are such powerful tools to move you to where you wanna go. Having a great internship could allow you to skip all sorts of other things in life that you would need to figure out. And there's a huge gap in who has access. To internships and who even knows like what an internship can do or how to find one or all these things.
And I totally agree with you. Like it's, it's unbelievably frustrating to like, know this information's out there and know that you need it to kind of function as an adult and to be able to be empowered to make your choices. And, you know, we, it'd be, we just can't assume that you can get these things at home because who knows if your parents know it, who knows if your, if your circle knows it.
Right. And that's, I also don't agree that all the ownership has to move on to, you know, an educational system. But there's definitely breakdowns of, from my perspective of, of what we give people access to and what we think is essential and is it really essential or not? Like. I have a whole racket against some of the standardized testing in schools.
Like really? Like what is that gonna do? Like in my modern life, my SAT score has never mattered. So like why, why are we spending money and time on those things? I admittedly am not at all informed on what the status is of standardized testing in schools. Um, like I don't, you know, I haven't taken a standardized test in a really long time and mm-hmm.
I also don't have children who are like taking tests and so, so like you could tell me right now that standardized tests have been done away with entirely, and I'd be like, oh, that's good to know. Like, like what is the status of them? Mm-hmm. Well, I, I would love to get into, um, how did you get into like tech journalism?
Was that the type of journalism that you imagined doing? You know, I know when I met you, like you wanted to be a writer. And it may not have even been a journalist yet. So how did that evolution happen and and are you excited to be in tech journalism? Um, today? That is a good question because I'm pretty sure at the time we met, I was, I mean, I was not doing journalism.
I wasn't writing for the school paper in undergrad. And I think a lot of the writing that I was exploring at the time was probably mostly fiction. And that's probably because, you know, growing up I'd always read the newspaper and been tied to the news. But, um, I probably didn't have news reporters whose bylines I followed very closely.
It was probably more columnists and then authors. Mm-hmm. And, um, I was exploring short stories and screen screenwriting, just writing for screen in general. I was exploring like I, you know, I have attempted to write a couple books, but they haven't gone so well. Um, but, you know, so I. I was just exploring different formats and different constraints for writing, and I wasn't set on like I wanna be a news reporter.
And then also in undergrad was when I started playing around with video production. This was in the early days of Final Cut Pro. Which was Apple Software that, you know, SIM simplified the video editing process and Clark University did have a class for using Final Cut Pro. So I, I took it and ended up liking it and, um, made some really like terrible videos with it.
And then, um, so then when I. When I got out of school, you know, and I said, um, to, uh, my parents, like, the four words that no one wants to hear I want is that I want to be a, I can't count six words, no parent wants to hear, which is, I want to be a writer. And they were like, okay, good luck with that. Uh, and they're like, whatcha gonna do?
And I was like, I dunno. You know, and, and like, kind of like your sake about the internships, like, I had, you know, no connections really. I had like mm-hmm. And I knew one person who was working in video production who helped me get a job as a production assistant. So I started out as a production assistant on a morning show, which is as terrible as everyone says it is.
And they didn't sleep for three years and then just kind of like moved up the chain a little bit and ended up being an associate producer, um, for a TV network. And then from there made the leap into digital video. And I happened to make the, I started freelance and then ended up being staff at the Wall Street Journal.
This is when a lot was happening both in the world and you know, in the newsroom. Um, it was at the start of the financial crisis of 2008. Um, there was going to be a new adminis, new presidential administration. Um, there was just a lot going on and the newsroom was very busy and I felt very fortunate to have been able to transition from, you know, basically a contractor into a full-time staffer.
And it was there that, you know, I was doing more, I was doing general videos, general assignment reporting basically. And it was during that time that I started to focus more on tech because I was just being sent to tech conferences to cover them as a video journalist. And, you know, like interviewing the co-founders of Twitter and not really like knowing, you know, that mm-hmm.
This was like a platform that was taking over. In some ways, and it was taking over like our, changing the, our dialogue on the internet. Mm-hmm. Um, and I had always been a user, by the way, of like the consumer internet, right? Like we were very into a OL instant messenger in college and I was Oh yes. I'm sure you remember, I think the statute of limitations is up on this, but I'm sure you remember Napster and, and like, you know, that I, like, I remember cashing in like a bond or check or something, um, in between freshman year and sophomore year.
And then I brought this compact PC back to our dorm sophomore year that had a burner, just because I was like, we gotta, we have to burn CDs, this has to happen. We had to make all the um, pre-game playlist. That's right. That's right. Um, so, so like I've always, I've always like been a tinkerer of, you know, technology, but I just wasn't, I wasn't covering the industry until I got to the Wall Street Journal and then I just started pitching stories and um, at some point it almost became a matter of practicality.
I was. I was carrying so much video equipment to, as a video journalist, to go from place to place, and at some point I started thinking to myself, I've always wanted to write, and if I wrote mm-hmm. I would have to carry much less equipment. I would just have to carry a laptop and maybe a wifi hotspot, and that sounds a lot more appealing.
So I was very eager at that point to transition to full-time writing. Well, from, from the outside looking in. Right. Your career has been so interesting to me because you've, you, it seems like your, your journey into tech journalism happened right when tech journalism was being created. Anyway. Now I know it's of course much older than that there, because technology's been around forever in this digital concept of technology and computers.
But you seem to hit such a sweet spot of it being top news, like what was happening in those spaces, like you mentioned, like talking to the, the founders of Twitter. Right. When. It was fresh like it. And, um, being there when some of these big moves have happened that we've talked about now, and now that you're in Silicon Valley, in the heart of it all, um, does it, does it feel lucky or does it feel like you kind of got into this rushing river right when it, there was a lot of content to talk about and the general public cared?
Yeah, that's a good question. So I mentioned, uh, a mentor earlier and my mentor was the person, his name's Walt Mossberg and he's the person who started sort of the whole idea of the personal technology column at the Wall Street Journal back in 1991. And that was when, I mean, most consumers had not been on the internet at that point, and personal computers were still very new and very nerdy and very niche.
But he had this idea that people were gonna be using personal computers a lot more in their lives. They were gonna become more accessible.
Mm-hmm. And
so he pitched an idea of the Wall Street Journal, like, I wanna write this column. And they gave him the column space and he ended up becoming one of the most popular columnists, like I wanna say it all time at the Wall Street Journal.
And he ended up sort of building a whole brand off of it and starting a conference series off of it. And, um. And so I think like his career sort of helped inspire or spawn an entire era of technology journalism and tech blogging. And then of course there was the.com boom and bust of, um, the late nineties, early two thousands, which is when you and I were in college.
And like, frankly, I wasn't paying that much attention to it. Um mm-hmm. And, um, so by the time I, and I, then I worked in video production for several years. So by the time that like I was covering technology, I would say that I was hitting it right at the crest of the mobile revolution. Mm-hmm. This, you know, the smartphone.
Uh, so it depends on who you talk to. People will argue the smartphone's been around for a while, but like the iPhone launched mm-hmm. In 2007 and the app store launched within two years after that. And that new category of apps and the fact that we had these GPS enabled wifi connected devices in our pockets all the time, I think changed everything because that mm-hmm.
That spawned like social, mobile location apps such as Foursquare. Um, and that spawned Uber. Um, and then Twitter had been around before, but now you could check it from anywhere. And, um, all these things that we were doing on mobile and food delivery, everything, you know, everything. And of course, like this, I'm, I'm describing like sort of a very westernized developed world experience too.
I mean, the mobile phone mm-hmm. Just completely, fundamentally changed the way people live in, um, developing countries as well. Yeah. So that was sort of that moment. And then I think over the past decade, and it's been. Fun and interesting to cover. Frankly, it's just such a fascinating topic. So I don't think I would've covered it, but I wasn't interested in it.
Yeah. But then, um, I think over the past decade, like two things have happened and one is that a lot of these tech companies have matured, and as they've matured and become some of the biggest and most powerful companies in the world, they're obviously being scrutinized more. And then I think also there's this now emerging category of tech that's gonna change our lives.
That's a little bit harder for people to grasp, whether it's something like artificial intelligence, whether it's something like facial recognition, whether it's something like autonomous driving, you're talking about like fundamental shifts, almost like, um, platforms or like layers of technology that are gonna change the way we live.
Yeah. But it's not like something you literally hold in your pocket. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's like a little bit harder to grasp. And I think that adds to, um, I don't wanna say nervousness, but it adds to like a different sort of. Like it, it feels like our pals have changed a little bit for technology, if I may speak collectively.
Yes. Yeah. No, and, and, um, the nervousness I think makes sense, right? Because everyone's a little doubtful of what looks like magic and some of these things that are coming through modern technology look like magic. You're like, hold on, what do you mean my car is gonna drive itself? Like, did you cast a spell on it?
What's happening? So when we can't see that and we don't know how it works, like humanity, not knowing how fundamental things work themselves as individuals keeps, um, growing exponentially where we can't fix anything ourselves. We can't solve it. We can't predict what it's gonna do anymore unless you're the engineer who made it or people who are in that space.
So it's, I think that also freaks people out a little bit. Like before when you could. You literally had to wind up your car or you knew the horse you were riding 'cause you probably raised it and trained it. And now you're asking me to get in something that's gonna tell me what to do and I don't know how to fix it or stop it or repair it.
Like it can be, it's uncomfortable because it's less, less intimate, I guess. It's less, I'm, I'm, um, less involved. So it seems strange as well. Yeah. There's something, um, one of my former editors at The Verge, um, would emphasize from time to time, which is that technology is supposed to be a tool, right? It supposed to be a tool you can use.
And the moment you feel like you can't just like, use it as a tool, like kind of when you need it and it does a thing for you and you feel like you have a grasp of it, um, it, it becomes a little more convoluted and a little bit more, our relationship to it becomes a little more uncomfortable, I think.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. It's also, there's a name for it. There's a, a, a name, like a psychological name for when we get frustrated with technology that usually responds to us the right way every day. And then it doesn't, like when your mouse stops working, we get so irritated so quickly if it's slow or fast or just disappears.
'cause we think of the mouse as the extension of our arm at this point. Uh, and so when it isn't doing what we want, we that gap is revealed as well. Right. So it's, it's, it's, yeah, I think it's really interesting. And you, because you started your morning show was in the, in the sports world and as a fellow college athlete, we've all like fanned out over athletes.
And you also had the, the opportunity to be engaged with other celebrity type people. So from sports through celebrities to, you know, tech celebrities. Who, who do you fan out over Or is that just like so over it because you're so used to. Um, these people now. Um, I, uh, let's see. Well, I did meet Grant Hill once, and that was pretty exciting.
Mm-hmm. Um, because I used, I used to play basketball and, um, followed a lot of college basketball, and so I was like pretty, I was pretty stoked to meet Grant Hill. I also met Shaq once. Mm-hmm. That was really fun. I met Shaq at South by Southwest and, um, I have a great photo of me like standing on, you know, like an apple crate turned the right side up, like the long side up and standing on it, and I'm still like, not nearly as tall as him.
And I challenged him to a free throw contest, which was really fun because Shaq, for all of his, uh, great, uh, skills as a player was not a particularly good free throw shooter. And I, I think I am a good free, free throw shooter. So, uh, that was fun. But you know, actually Kara, like, I think what happened after I worked in.
Sports media for a few years was, I got turned off from sports for a while. It was, um mm-hmm. Not an altogether positive experience. Yeah. I learned a lot and there were some positives, but I just, after that, didn't wanna watch sports for a long time and I didn't. Mm-hmm. Um, and even now, like I still, I try to tune into basketball games when I can.
Um, I loved watching the last dance on Netflix. I really, really enjoyed that. Yeah. That docuseries. But, um, I just, yeah, I just started, you know, some, I was listening to a podcast recently between, um, Ezra Klein and Cal Newport, and one of the things that one of them said, I think it was Ezra said, like, you just, it, you just can't like, be on top of everything.
You can't like mm-hmm. Even as a journalist, you're constantly feeling like, I need to know about this. I need to know about this. I need to, it's like, at some point you have to just sort of give that up. And so for me, there was a period of time where I was just like, I don't wanna be on top of what's going on in the sports world.
That's like, not what's interesting me right now. Yeah. Um, and then in terms of other people, I wouldn't say that like. This is really random, but I, um, I was at a conference in Portugal a few years ago and like ran, and I had, and I planned to speak at this conference, and then I was going to take a day trip to go to nre, which is, uh, north of Lisbon by about two hours.
And it's where this. This famous wave breaks. Um, and it's become known because it's one of the largest waves surfed by man. I mean, it's not one of the largest waves in the world because we can't actually track some of the large rogue waves that are happening, like mm-hmm. Out in the middle of the ocean somewhere.
But, but like in terms of what has been surfed, uh, it's this, it's this wave off the coast of, uh, Portugal. And, um, and I was there around the time of year that this wave is typically breaking and like the surfers were pro surfers had flown in and I was like, I really just wanna go see, but somebody surf this wave.
So I went, and then that day, the wave of course is not breaking because nature, you just can't predict nature. And, um, but then I was at, I was at a dinner and I had mentioned to someone at this conference, like, oh, like. I think, you know, Garrett McNamara is like the surfer who at the time I think was still held the record, and maybe it was second in the world for having mm-hmm.
Surfed this wave. And then I randomly ended up at a, at a, like a group dinner that week, and the person I had said that to said, Lauren Garrett McNamara is over there. So I actually had the chance to go talk to this person who's like really, you know, well known in the surf world and who had just like, surfed one of the world's largest waves.
And it was mm-hmm. It was a, it was not about tech, you know, it was like just, it was totally outta my wheelhouse. And I like really enjoyed it for that reason. Like, it was a fascinating conversation and I was like, what drives people to do this? Like
mm-hmm.
I wanna understand what is going through your brain when you're, when you're being to in, by a jet ski into a way that is 70 feet.
Mm-hmm. It's just wild. So I enjoyed that conversation quite a bit. Well, I, I love that story for a lot of reasons. And one of them is that. I've been working with my coach, was I, I have a business coach too about mo spending more time in my ridiculous list. Like when I've had the most fun in life. It's when I'm doing things that other people think is ridiculous, like flying to London for a weekend because you can, or ending up having a conversation and hanging out with the Argentinian rugby team on St.
Patrick's Day randomly in Nuremberg, Germany. Like when things seem so ridiculous, that's usually what I'm having the most fun. And to me that's an, an example of like something that I, if I was, you had put on my ridiculous list, like the fact that you were in Portugal at this other thing, this happened, like all these things add up and suddenly you get to have this incredible experience.
And to me those are like the gold nuggets in life. I'm like, I want more of those. Yeah. It's almost like you're describing like. Outlining experiences, right? Mm-hmm. And so for me, that's not to say that the folks in the tech world who I interview aren't interesting. They are, and they're smart, and some of them, I believe some of them are actually trying to, you know, put some good in the world.
But because that has been my beat now for so many years mm-hmm. I find it so much more interesting if I talk to somebody who's working on, um, climate change solutions. Yeah. Um, which of course intersects with technology too, but I'm like mm-hmm. Tell me about what you do and tell me like, what dri what drives you to do this?
What makes you tick? Um, someone who's working in the nonprofit world, I wanna understand like what kind of mm-hmm. What kind of value are you trying to put back in the world? Like, tell me about your, your day-to-day interactions. Um, and, and now particularly like with what we're living through with the pandemic, all of the folks mm-hmm.
Frontline workers, healthcare workers, scientists, researchers who've been working on vaccines like. That to me is just so much more interesting right now as it should be, than whatever photo app someone's working on. And I don't care if your photo app has, like, is infused with AI and is gonna change the world.
Like I I, yeah, I wanna know about the app. I wanna know about like yeah. Just people who are working on solutions to bigger problems, um mm-hmm. That are gonna help, that are really trying to help save humanity frankly. Yeah. And I think that speaks to one of the things that you and I share in common and why we could talk for hours about stuff is 'cause we're just genuinely so motivated by curiosity.
Yes. Like wanting to know like, oh, what is it like over there? What do you do? Why do you do that? Like the, we haven't given up that. You know, 6-year-old that asks all the questions. Yes. We've just gotten better at like, maybe not saying them all out loud all the time. Right, right. There's this, there's this great blog called, wait, but Why?
And I always feel like that's me. I'm like, wait, but why? What? But wait, but wait, don't move past that point. Wait, tell me about this. I wanna know more about this. And we just sort of poke at it. Mm-hmm. Like, I just wanna know. Yes. And the, and I, when people say to me, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, nerding out, or I, you know, I don't wanna mm-hmm.
The tldr r I'm like, no, don't gimme the tldr r nerd out. I wanna hear it. And what is the TLDR for people who have no idea what you just said? Oh, sorry. It's a too long, didn't read. Mm-hmm. It's like when someone writes a really, really long article and then you're, and then, you know, maybe you wanna just send out a tweet and you're like, TLDR.
Here's what the article says. So, yeah. So when people, like, when people are really passionate about something, but then they try to shorten it for the sake of the audience, I'm like, oh, you just, you have to lean into that. No, no. Sheryl Sandberg pun intended. You need to lean into that passion. You need to own it.
Yes. And that's, I, I talk about that all the time with people because there's so many modifications we're making today and we've condensed so many things for, I don't know why, because somebody who had an app decided we should condense things and we miss some of the things that make people so fascinating because of that.
Um, I just recently watched on Disney Plus that movie Star Girl. Have you heard about that one? No. What is that? It's like, by the way, I think I need to get Disney Plus because I keep hearing people talk about it, and I'm like, yes. All right. That I think I need, need to add the streaming media subscriptions.
But tell me about Star Girl. You should get it. It definitely saved me through some COVID days where like you just had like happiness and joy and optimism oozing on the television. Like it's the antithesis to every news station right now. So I need it for mental health. Um, so, so Star Girls about this teenage, this teenager that shows up at school and everyone's looking really normal, wearing like gray or black or like blending in and she's in crazy pattern combos, you know, raised by, she was homeschooled, wearing like flowers and like just being, her, being super creative and unique and it talks about how, why that matters and what can happen when you are really fully self-expressed as you and so often people who cross my paths today in my work, right?
Clients or people in Thrive or whatever, whatever else. I'm helping people move through. So often what they're not doing is, is being them. Like I have this whole chart of like, you know, the U unicorn that you are and how being it actually allows you to be more hireable, like, you know, be able to charge more, be able to do more of what you love.
And there's so much in life today telling you to like, keep it short, keep it simple, do it fast. That like, all these things that are like chopping up who we are versus giving that super long, nerdy article. And by doing that, you actually find the other super nerdy people who wanna read it. That's right.
And that's how you find your niche. And everyone's worried about their niche. I'm like, fuck your niche. Just do what you wanna do. And they'll come to you like, you know, that's good advice. Care. Oh, it, it's, it, it, yeah. You know, you know, there's other people out there who wanna learn about wearables and they also wanna learn about Garrett and how Omy is and why.
That's super cool. 'cause. There's just people who care about a lot of things. I think most people do, and yeah. You know, with Instagram driving so much of, of culture right now, especially for younger generations, we have to remember that it is a one dimensional space, and it might have been be a, like a micro dimensional space because it's so curated and it's, it's like reality TV in picture form, right?
It's almost like we risk like a, a more homogenous experience if you're just letting social media nudge you into what you should be interested in as opposed to following your own interest from the start. Yeah, absolutely. That, that's why I keep thinking from a trend perspective. I'm not surprised that like Billie Eilish is so popular right now, because to me she speaks to a very grunge nineties perspective, which I think is always the answer to everybody being the same.
Like if the eighties was like a very specific way of being like shoulder pads and money and big hair and like excess, excess, excess, right? And then grunge is like, anticapitalistic, right? And like, be you and like don't look the same. And if everyone looked the same, it was like awful. Like I remember gonna school and wearing the same being like, ah, you can't wear black chucks if I'm wearing black Chucks.
Like that feeling right. And I'm, I'm not surprised that 90 like apparel trends had come back because I think people are grasping at what was that authentic, um, discord at the time, like raging against machine and like just all these, um, anti kind of perspectives of not wanting to be homogenous. And I'm, I keep waiting for the cultural piece to happen versus just the fashion trends to happen.
So to me, Billie Eilish just kind of in that space of like. Being the opposite of what everyone else is doing right now. And that's why people are like, yes, thank you. And if you haven't seen her documentary on Apple Plus yet, it's amazing. That's what everyone says. That's, that's the word on the street that it's really good.
I'm gonna check that out. Yeah, I've been wanting, that's been on my list. Um, Minari that just came out as a film that I really wanna check out. I haven't been watching a lot of TV or movies lately. Um, I've been trying to read books at night, but I, but yeah, a few things are on my list. And Billie, Billie Eilish is supposed to be fantastic, so thank you for reminding me of that.
Yeah, yeah. You're welcome. And it speaks to all the, you know, being, being your, your own unicorn. Um, but what books are you reading right now? I'm concurrently reading two books, and I was just telling somebody yesterday, I am like, I have about a hundred pages into each of them, but they're not, I'm not turning the pages at night.
I, I tend to read like five to 10 pages and then wanna go to sleep. Mm-hmm. So I'm not sure if it's just because I'm tired right now or if it's because like these books, like I. I want to finish the most. So the first one is called a good provider is one who Leaves, and that's written by Jason DePaul. And he's a New York Times writer who has spent a lot of time in the Philippines.
And the story is broadly about migration in the 21st century, and particularly about, um, in the Philippines, how such an important part of the economy there, um, is remittances that are sent back from migrant workers who go to other countries to work to seek better opportunities. And mm-hmm he became close with this one family in, in a slum in the Philippines, um, when he had first traveled there as a reporter 30 years ago, and he was able to track that family's story.
And it's a, you know, it's a big family with like multiple branches, but there's a family tree in the beginning and I do find myself like constantly checking it to make sure I'm, I'm like, sort of understanding the connections, um, the connective tissue of the family. But, um, and he, and like. They, they traveled to Saudi Arabia initially because that's where a lot of the jobs were during the oil boom of like the seventies, eighties, and nineties.
Um, but ultimately a, a lot of these families have goals of getting to the United States, um mm-hmm. Being able to work there, but it's hard on families. It's an incredibly mm-hmm. Hard and heartbreaking experience. And, um, so I'm about a hundred pages into that. I'd like to keep reading it. And the other one is Braiding Sweet Grass by Robin Wall Kimer.
She's a botanist based in upstate New York. And I would call the book like, sort of, uh, dispatches, um, about her relationship to nature and how that speaks to our relationship with nature. And, and she is, um, she is Native American and so a lot of her focus on the book is how, um, in basically the relationship that indigenous.
People had with the land and how that is so different from our relationship to the land in our modernized world. And a lot of it, I get the sense that she is trying to reclaim that relationship, you know, through her writings. Mm-hmm. And I mean, she could spend an, she spends an entire chapter talking about trying to clean algae out of a pond.
You know, so, I mean, you really have to be like, and you've gotta fi and she's botanist so she's using scientific terms and Latin names for things, and you really have to like, follow along to get what she's saying. But, um, but then there are these like beautiful vignettes that run alongside it where she'll talk about, you know, some element of nature that she's been observing, like as her daughters are going off to college and mm-hmm.
Um, that sort of grief that you feel and, um, but how life just keeps on going and mm-hmm. And nature is cyclical and life is cyclical and it's, it's, it's pretty, like, it's pretty hippy dippy. Uh, yeah. But I, but I'm into it. I'm, I'm enjoying it. I like it. Um, obviously what are you doing these days? Oh my goodness.
I have an embarrassingly tall stack of books by my bed, partly because my new habit is like new books go on the bedside table, not into a bookshelf first. The bookshelf is like, I've read those. Um, and I am also in a really odd place with like reading a lot of things at once. Partly 'cause I haven't been able to like, get into a groove with some of these books.
And, and I feel like there's been so many shifts in the beginning of this year so far where, what I need in my mood and, and the type of pause I need maybe versus education. 'cause I read so much nonfiction.
Mm-hmm.
I'm always reading habit or business or community, like books that I need to use for work, um, to like keep my learning going.
But one that I'm really enjoying right now that, um, a woman on my team sent me is like streams to the ocean. Um, beautiful name and it's, um, essays. By this guy about his life and what he is gone through. And like the first chapter, I believe is ego and talking about how ego has shown up in different stories he's telling of like being younger today, like what he observes.
So it's so not a type of book I would ever normally read, but I'm finding a lot of solace in it of like coming back to real life stuff versus like forward, forward, forward, forward type of books I'm usually reading. Right. Um, so that one's really good. Um, but I even, I have um, I'm also reading right now like Business Made Simple by Donald Miller, which is a pretty easy read.
So I'm just like, you know, I could probably finish it in an afternoon if I wanted to and I'm like reading one and like walking away.
Mm-hmm.
And then, um, I also have a bunch of books about from the psychotherapy psychotherapeutic yoga training I did that were other recommended readings. About how to really implement social change through the yogic, um, traditions and philosophies.
And also, um, uh, I'll put all the names of these books in the show notes, but like conscious consumerism type of things and how we, um, overcoming spiritual materialism is one of them. Oh, I'd love to read that. Yeah. And how like we can commandeer these things and think we're doing it the right way, but really we're manipulating the lessons to, for ourselves versus doing the lesson or being the lesson.
Yeah. So there's a, a wide range, a wider range of nor topics that I would normally have, but I feel like this year has just been, so if 2020 was its own thing, 2021 seems to be like erratic and a little hyperactive. At least my experience of it has been and. Getting into a routine of any sort of, um, long stretches of being where I want to be has been very challenging this year.
Mm-hmm. Whether it's like, we'll, we'll be eating great, and all of a sudden it's like, phew, that was gone. Okay, let's put that back in. Or working out or even sleep patterns. Yes. My sleep has been so off. Yeah. So I'm, I feel like I am equally trying to fight for what I know I want in my life and equally trying to surrender of just being wherever I'm supposed to be right now.
And I That's a hard struggle. Yeah. Um, but, but you as powerful lady, what does. What do the words powerful and ladies mean to you separately, and what do they mean to you when they're combined? So I guess in today's terms, like I, and I think you and I had a conversation about this when you were doing the branding, and I was trying to convince you, I was like, just use women.
Just use women. But powerful ladies kind of rolls off the tongue a little bit, a bit more nicely. Um, and then powerful is interesting because I don't ever feel powerful. And if anything, I feel like as a, as a journalist, like part of my job is to hold power to account and to think about, um, when power is in, its like, sort of biggest form how it could potentially be abused.
And so, mm-hmm. Like, I, I never describe myself as powerful. I'm always like, I don't feel that way at all. Um, I guess like sometimes I, and that's not to criticize the word, you know, it's more like, I guess I like to think sometimes I ha I feel like I have agency sometimes, or maybe sometimes I feel more confident than others.
Mm-hmm. Um, and so maybe that's what it means to me. But I don't ever, um. I don't ever just, I, I guess I like see other women and I think, oh, she's like really powerful. She's really smart, but I don't think of it for me.
Mm-hmm.
Well then that leads me to my next question of where do you put yourself on the Powerful Lady Scale?
Oh, there's a scale zero being average everyday human, and 10 being the most powerful lady possible. Where would you put yourself? Let's take it to 11. Oh, right. Uh, no, I mean, I guess, you know, I've, uh, I'm a, um, it's kind of funny, I'm, now, I'm thinking about the, the 30 Rock episode where Liz Lemon goes to, like, she leaves New York City and she goes to somewhere in the Midwest because I think she's like visiting her boyfriend's family or something, and she's like, I'm an eight here.
Um, because everyone's so ridiculously attractive in New York City. Um, uh, I don't, yeah, like, yeah, it depends on where I'm, I guess I a five or my an eight. I love that concept. Nobody has ever. Thought about the question that way when I asked it. 'cause I've asked everyone on every episode, and no one's ever thought about their number changing based on where they are in, in time and space.
Mm-hmm. Right, right. Well, because I think it, it, it comes back to fundamentally how you describe power and it's like mm-hmm. Is your power being used to help other people, the people around you? Yeah. Is your power being used to give yourself agency, um, in a decision making process or negotiate a salary? I mean, where, what, how are you using it?
And so for me it does seem like it would be a sort of sliding scale. Mm-hmm. How, how do you think you're using your power to make a positive impact? I hope so. Um, mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, I'd like to think so. Um. I am, I'm a member of our union where I work, and I recently became a union, uh, council leader.
So I, you know, I'm trying my best to sort of use my voice, um mm-hmm. And my just, you know, communication skills to, to help people who are, are fighting for like a better work environment, frankly, and just like mm-hmm. More fair practices in the workplace. Mm-hmm. So I, I, I try to, yeah, I try to, I mean, and part of what I do as a journalist is just giving voice to people who otherwise just wouldn't be published or have their mm-hmm.
Have their words out there, or their quotes said and wouldn't necessarily reach huge audiences. Yeah. I think you are, I was just really curious about your own perspective. Mm-hmm. Thanks. No. 'cause I, you know, I think. The, the whole art of journalism is that, right. It's to inform and to forward things and to expose and to, you know, have people understand what's happening in the world, but also relate to what's happening in the world.
And, you know, coming back to like people being more themselves and telling the whole story. I feel like so much of traditional journalism people talk about, like Walter Cronkite or whatever, right? When they, you know, the glory days of what journalism should have been, fill in the blank. But it was, there was, uh, it occurs to me that there's obviously just like the shortening of expressing ourselves as people.
There's a shortening of, of telling their story and, you know, getting the hook instead of the transformation and the exposure and the, the human connection that we want some of these stories to have. So. Um, I don't think, especially today with the unfortunate, like abuse journalists are getting in the world.
Like you, it, it, you have to come at it from a selfless perspective if you're gonna do it the right way. So to me, that's using power the right way. Mm-hmm. I'll tell, I'll you that, I'll tell you this, most journalists don't do it for the money, so there's gotta be something else driving us.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Um, when you look at the, the women in your life, um, how impactful have you know, girlfriends, friends, you know, female mentors been to you and your journey and, and developing yourself as a human as well?
Oh my gosh. My friends have been hugely influential. Mm-hmm. I mean, just, I, every single one of them, yourself included. Um, I grew up with pretty much the same group of girlfriends who I'm still friends with to this day. We went, um, through school together. Some of us went to school together starting from kindergarten.
Mm-hmm. And then other friends, um, like my friend Tara, I became very close with in high school and she's, I mean, we just got off the phone this morning. She's one of my absolute best friends in the whole world. Mm-hmm. But when I, when I, um, started, uh, school at Clark, I mean, and, and immediately, uh, Sue me, you, Tanya, Liz, Courtney, I think we connected with a little bit later, but she's still a part of our group.
Um, Jenna? Of Jenna, of course. Yeah. Jenna, if anything is the ringleader. So, um, I mean, it just, um, I don't know. You girls like changed my life for the better. Mm-hmm. You really did. Mm-hmm. Um, just opened my, my eyes to so many new, interesting things we're all coming from, you know, different places. That's, that's the beauty of college.
Right. And, um. And so, yeah. And then, uh, I was gonna say that was, I think the, when I visited you in Germany, might've been the first time I was going to Europe. Um, and it may have been, it may have been. And then, um, yeah, I mean there's just, I, I, I don't even know how to encapsulate it in a podcast, frankly.
Yeah. And then of course I made, you know, in every phase in life, you make new friends. I made new friends when I was living in New York City, who changed my life for the better. I've made friends in California who have like, absolutely changed my life for the better. Mm-hmm. And um, you know, I just feel like all of you have been so influential, especially Jenna, like, especially Jenna Jenna's, just as, as Jenna would say, you know.
You have to tell people where the bear shit's and the buckwheat, that was a yes. Famous journalism coming from Maine things. She said the things that came outta that girl's mouth. I mean, we had, like, we wrote it down. Mm-hmm. Um, and she, but she really taught me how to like, speak up and, and speak up for myself and just be direct and, um, yeah.
Like I, I totally value that. And you, like you are mm-hmm. One of the most hardworking, entrepreneurial, optimistic people that I know. I still remember dump and run. For those of you who have not heard this story, Kara started an entire. She, she recognized that I ran it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You ran it. It wasn't my idea.
I ran it. That's right. Mm-hmm. There, yeah, there were similar things being done like, and I, sure there still are at college campuses, but basically there was just so much waste at the end of the school year when people would dump all of the stuff from their dorm rooms or their, you know, on campus or off campus housing.
Um, and it was just, it was basically gonna go to landfills in some cases. And, and you organized the, and ran this great, um, flee sale effectively to, to raise funds for it. And then I, I think you gave, I don't remember where you gave the funds to, but you gave it to some local costs. I don't know if I remember either.
Um, it was definitely, I think it was a local Worcester, it went to charity. Yeah. Yeah. I went to something local. Um, but yeah, no, to this day I still hate waste. Like it's so. We're so wasteful and you know, I don't, the woman who created that program was trying to get it into, into all these colleges. 'cause we, there's so much stuff thrown away.
Mm-hmm. Each year it's incredibly wasteful and in each semester and things you don't think about people throwing away like, you know, a 75% full laundry detergent. Like just Yeah. An anyway, you on, on tangent mm-hmm. About what? Yeah. I mean disposal. But you, you totally, um, inspired me and, um, and yeah, just, um, Courtney is of course like one of the most inspiring people that we know.
Everyone should go back and listen to the episode with, uh, Courtney. And, um, I just Yeah. Learned so much from you ladies For sure. And then I've, I've had some wonderful mentors in journalism who are women as well. Mm-hmm. Um, one of my editors, Kara Swisher, is, she's one of my former editors, is probably one of the most like, well-known.
Definitely fearsome, uh, technology journalists out there, and no one wants to mess with Kara. And, uh, and she was hugely influential, uh, when I was starting out as a writer. And I've, I, I mean, I've had like really great women editors actually, so it's, that's fantastic. And I also have, I mean, I have, I've had a couple of really wonderful male editors at Wired too.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Walt, for example, right. And the Wall Street Journal. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Walt, it was earlier and now, um, yeah, our, our editor in chief, um, Nick Thompson who just left Wired. He is like a really big inspiration to a lot of people. I know, myself included. And I work with a great guy, Mike now, who edits me regularly.
And, um, yeah. It's just, it's, uh, I, yeah, but I, I definitely, um. I like, I just feel, I always just feel like people know so much more than I do. And so anytime I get to work with smart women or be friends with smart women, I just feel like completely pulled over. Mm-hmm. It's, yeah, that's the collaboration part is what I like the most.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Absolutely. Um, so for people who are listening who want to go into journalism in some capacity, either traditional journalism or creating their own, um, blogs or anything to share what's going on or in the world around them, what would, what advice would you give them and what are some core, core guidelines that you would, you would encourage them to have?
Um, don't be on social media. I'm just kidding. Try not to tweet as much as possible. Um, well, you know. There are a couple different ways into this. The mm-hmm. I do think it's a good time to be starting out as a journalist. It's hard because the industry has cratered and Yeah, that's partly because of the way the advertising market has just completely changed over the past decade and mm-hmm.
Um, part of that is because there, there is, as you alluded to earlier, mistrust in journalism right now. And, um, polarization seems to like work better than just doing straightforward reporting, which is really sad and unfortunate, but it's the, it's the state we're in. And so there are challenges to becoming a journalist right now, but also the barriers are pretty low.
If you just wanna start your own blog, if you, if you wanna become a YouTuber, if you want to start us. Substack, if you want to make the best Instagram stories of anybody, if you wanna be a journalist on TikTok, I don't know if some of you're probably familiar with, like Dave Jorgensen from the Washington Post who does wonderful TikTok series and he's a comedy writer, but, but he's doing that for a very established and, um, esteemed journalism brand, which is incredible.
So there are so many ways into storytelling now that you can do fairly easily. Um, I would say that, um, you don't have to go a traditional journalism route, but you should learn the fundamentals of the business and the ethics of the business and how, how, like to do good reporting. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that you should also write about things you're into, like, be, be like a subject matter expert as much as possible, which is really gonna help you stand out from the crowd, I think.
And it's okay if you start as a generalist. I mean, that's what I did, but, but, um mm-hmm. Find, find the thing that really makes you tick, I think, and then, and then devote yourself to telling the most. Like fair stories and, and, and well reported stories in that area that you, that you can, um, mm-hmm. I, I also say, by the way, journalism has not been known for being the most diverse profession in the world.
It's really something that the whole industry has struggled with. And I, I almost hate to give out advice, like, just do this, just do this, just do this. Because I think for some people there are, um, barriers that are, that still exist for them to find their way in a newsroom. And I want that to change. Like, I want people to think more about, um, bringing in people from diverse backgrounds with diverse experiences, different viewpoints.
Um, and that, that is the, the onus for that is on the people who are already established in newsrooms, right? Mm-hmm. Like that shouldn't, so, um, so I don't wanna make it sound like, oh, it's super easy, just start a, start a substack. Um, but, but there are, I think there are pretty good options out there right now for being mm-hmm.
Creative and being an entrepreneurial jour journalist at the same time. Mm-hmm. Uh, so for people who think that you're fascinating like I do and want to follow you or support you, where all the places they can find you, listen to you and reach out to you. Okay. Uh, I am on the Twitter, uh, at Lauren Goode.
That's G-O-O-D-E, also on Instagram at Lauren Goode, GODI am on um, wired.com. And so you can just go to wire.com and you can search for my name and my author profile. And also I have, um, I did have two podcasts for a while now. I just have one. Um, it is called Gadget Lab. We run it every Friday and we unpack the latest news in consumer tech and how it's affecting your life.
We also give recommendations every week, and we, we often strive to make the recommendations not about tech. So we have a lot of fun. Probably similar to the conversation Kara and I just had about books and that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. And, um, and then, yeah, like, um, I'm hoping, you know, sometime soon I can just beam directly into your brain through chip implants and, uh, you don't even have to go to my social profile.
You'll just, no, I'm just kidding. I do not. Want to pioneer invasive technologies like that at all. But, um, but yeah, basically, um, you know, I'm pretty accessible and, and, um, probably a little too online. So Nature of the beast. Yeah. Of of modern society and in, and your job in particular, right? Yeah. I'm not super into TikTok.
I do watch tiktoks, but my niece is the one, she's 12 and she's the one who's like, you know, she's into TikTok. She's, she's the one who's like on you. She's she's giving you the insights scoop. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah. Um, and she FaceTimes me a lot too, which I, which I really appreciate. She'll FaceTime me with her, with her best friend, and the two of them will, um, just, and then I, and then I do really do start to feel old.
'cause I say, shouldn't you guys be in bed? Like it's late? Whatcha doing? Shouldn't you be doing your homework? I love it. Well, Lauren, thank you so much for finally, uh, finding time to sit down with me and to be on The Powerful Ladies podcast. Thank you for being a guest to me and being in my life and being one of the women who allows me to feel powerful.
So thank you so much. Thank you. I love you, Kara. I love you too. Lauren,
thank you for listening to today's episode. All the links to connect with Lauren Good. Earn our show notes at the powerpoint.com/podcast. There you can also leave comments and ask questions about this episode. What more powerful ladies? Come and join me on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, we can find some free downloads.
Start being powerful today. Subscribe to this podcast and help us connect with more listeners by leaving us a five star rating and review. Looking to connect directly with me, visit kara duffy.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. Without her, this wouldn't be possible.
You can follow her at Jordan K. Duffy on Instagram. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope we're being powerful in your life and awesome, and up to something you love.
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Instagram: @laurengoode
Twitter: @laurengoode
Website: wired.com
Podcast: Gadget Lab
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
