Episode 118: The Couple Who Designed Their Dream Life | Thomas Claesen & Chelsea Levine | Entrepreneurs & Life Designers
Thomas Claesen and Chelsea Levine are an entrepreneurial couple who built a life and businesses that reflect their values, creativity, and love for travel. From Belgium to New York to Nashville, they have created companies like Clawson Design and Teeq while intentionally choosing joy, community, and freedom over convention. They share the mindset shifts that allowed them to say no to work that did not align, the systems they use to keep their relationship and businesses thriving, and how they stay open to new opportunities without losing focus. Their story is a guide for anyone who wants to create more freedom, build a business with purpose, and live with intention.
“You can’t have it all. In fact, you don’t want it all. Choose what really brings you joy.”
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Chelsea Levin’s Powerful Ladies Podcast
The Power of Moments - book
Dave - TV Show
I Will Teach You To Be Rich - Ramit Sethi
Yes Theory - YouTubeChannel
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 – Meet Thomas Claesen and Chelsea Levine
05:10 – Building Businesses Around Joy and Freedom
09:40 – Why Money Alone Is Never the Right Reason to Say Yes
14:20 – Communication Habits That Strengthen Their Marriage
18:50 – Creating a Sense of Home Across Continents
23:30 – Lessons from Launching Teeq and Clawson Design
27:40 – An Ice Cream Moment That Led to a Big Idea
31:00 – Choosing Joy Over “Having It All”
36:20 – Sharing Knowledge Freely and Being a Connector
41:10 – Removing Work That Drains Your Energy
45:30 – Finding Community While Traveling
50:20 – How to Reframe Worst-Case Scenarios
54:10 – Leaving Space for New Ideas and Adventures
58:00 – Advice for Entrepreneurs Seeking More Freedom
It was prompted by Chelsea saying, let's make a million dollars, because we, before that had been talking about like with her business smarts and, and just marketing experience, and then me being able to design and code. It's like between the two of us, we have enough to start a business.
That's Tomas Clawson and Chelsea Levine, and this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy. In this episode, I have the pleasure of sharing with you one of my favorite power couples, Tomas and Chelsea. What amazes me about them is how they are so intentional with creating their dream life. They're both serial entrepreneurs working on projects together and separately.
They have a deeply respectful and communication-based marriage. They have great friends take great trips and own their home. They're people who legit love their life, and it's all based upon the choices they've made to design it specifically that way. I want you all to know that you can design your dream life, and in this episode, I hope you're both inspired and get some practical pro tips to do just that.
Before we jump into this episode, I want to remind you to come and join my Powerful Ladies Thrive membership. The best way to ensure you're living your dream life is to have a community and a coach that will help you get there, and it's exactly what Thrive is for. Join us today. Go to the powerful ladies.com and jump into our twice weekly group, group coaching sessions to kickstart everything that matters to you.
Learn how to design your dream life, create your dream business, and live powerfully.
Welcome to The Powerful Ladies Podcast. I'm so excited to have both of you here, um, as part of our Power Couple series.
Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you again. Now together.
Yes. Well, and for everyone who, um, has no idea who's here today, please introduce yourselves. Say who you are, what you're up to, and we'll go from there.
I am Domas Glassen, usually pronounced Tomas here. Um, I'm an immigrant and husband, dog dad, designer, entrepreneur. Um, designer more specifically, uh, business owner of Klassen Design Agency, mainly web design and then very irrelevant. Today is also I'm the web designer and developer behind Powerful Ladies and Kara Duffy.
Woo. Yes you are. Thank goodness. You make us look great. You make me look great. So thank you for that. Oh,
thank you. It's, it's easy to make you look great. Oh,
I'm already blushing. We're only like two minutes in. Good job. He only says that to you
and me and that's it.
Well, I'm say Levine. Um, wife of the person who makes Kara Duffy and Powerful Ladies look good. The beneficiary to the immigrant. Um, also, uh, an entrepreneur myself, dog, mom, wife. I don't know. We said
you're gonna start saying Serial entrepreneur.
Serial entrepreneur. Yeah. I own one of every kind of business that you can own basically at this point.
Um, yeah.
And you're a past Powerful Ladies podcast guest yourself. Hell yeah, I am. And the granddaughter to an epic woman that we still need to get as a guest on The Powerful Ladies Podcast. Oh, yes. Supporting her jewelry today. Bringing her good juju. Yes. I love it. I love it. And for everyone who wants to learn more about this magical Grandmother, go check out Chelsea's episode.
We did talk about her in there. Um, so I, I asked you guys to come on for our Power Couple series for a lot of reasons. Obviously I adore both of you. Um, I'm so happy that, uh, we met through Nick, uh, Roco and through his company boldly, uh, fine, the website company. I adore his family. So I know that the most amazing people in the world have more amazing people, uh, around them than I haven't met yet.
And you guys are such an example of that. And every time I talk to you guys it's fun and inspiring because we share a lot of that serial entrepreneur behavior. But most importantly, uh, we share a craving to make life work for us and be designed to let us do all the fun things that we want to. And I want everyone to know that, like, I want everyone to know that's a possibility for them.
And you guys do it in exceptional ways that I don't think people think about when I say design your own life. They think, oh, I'll pick my job or I'll pick where I wanna live. But you guys actively construct that every day. Um, so I would love to kinda just get into how you guys met and how that has triggered you guys creatively constructing your life kind of from the moment you guys met each other.
That's how it occurs to me anyway.
The, the joke is that I bought 'em on the internet,
which depending on the target audience, is really funny or very relatable.
Um, we, long story short, met through music. We both teach drumline in our free time, and we met through a mutual friend who, uh, is Belgian but lived in the States for about six months, probably down the street from you.
Mm-hmm.
Um,
who I met in a chance passing in the streets of New York City, few years before that.
So, so I was teach, his name is David. Um, I was teaching with him, uh, in Belgium. A group called Drum Spirit and um, while we were already teaching together, he spent one season with Rhythm X, which is the indoor percussion group. We now both teach on the weekends in the winter. Um, and in 2014, drum spirit took a trip to the States to compete here in the world Championships, and that's when we, well actually met for the second time.
Yeah, we, we also met in passing about four years before that, which he has no recollection of, but it honestly wasn't super memorable to begin with. But yeah, David asked me to come out and just consult and help drum spirit, you know, just for a few hours here and there when they were traveling to the States for championships.
Paid me in chocolate, which is a true Belgian currency. Um, but in that amount of time they basically realized, okay, she, her specialty, which is marching symbols, we don't know anything about that. They learned so much in those, you know, two hours. Um,
it just clicked too. Yeah. It was a very good match and like teaching style with the students.
Mm-hmm. And yeah, their flights were delayed to come to the states, so they had all these flight vouchers after their trip and they basically used those vouchers, uh, to bring me over to Belgium to teach for an extended period of time. So I said, how's two weeks sound? I said, how's four weeks sound? Um, and that was kind of history with my connection with drum spirit.
I ended up, you know, starting to go to Belgium, coming friends with all those people, including Tomas, who was teaching there at the time. Um, and then that next summer I hosted a couple Belgian friends who I met at Drum Spirit, and he met up with us here, and that's really where we started to hang out and really get to know each other more.
Um, and it was only a few months later that we started dating after him being here for part of the summer, then me going back to teach again, and then him missing me and coming to Nashville. And that's essentially when we started dating. Mm-hmm.
That last script you said, sorry, go ahead. Well, it was like the first time where it wasn't circumstantial, it was very planned.
I, as an individual, am going to visit Chelsea. There's no music involved in this trip.
Yeah, he, he told me that he wanted to. What, what was the wording you used
eventually call you? My girlfriend?
Yeah. When? Like the day before he left Belgium, my response was, uh, there's no way I'm gonna have time to talk to you once I get back.
And then we talked on the phone every day.
Yeah. And so that's when he decided to fly here and hang out more.
But how sweet is it to say, I eventually wanna call you my girlfriend? Like
I was over head over heels when he said that. Lemme tell you, he rode up on his bicycle. He still had his like college professor clothes on, tried to win me over and didn't really work.
I don't know. It was so, so circums. Like, not circumstantial, but there was always people around and we hadn't been able to spend that much like true quality time together, like one-on-one. Mm-hmm. And. I also knew she, I don't know, we must have brought it up at some, like at some point on one trip she called me her not boyfriend.
Um, I, I don't know. It was this whole adult conversation underlying that tip of the iceberg where we knew that we were facing a lot of distance. So,
mm-hmm.
I, I don't know.
Yeah, it's one thing to be a couple hours apart, but to be a, you know, eight hour flight across an ocean on two separate continents is, uh, can be intimidating, but.
Obviously we're here to tell the tale. So it worked out. And we found a way, I mean, as I said, he was a teacher at the time I worked for Apple, which was super flexible. About a year into our relationship is when I became fully self-employed and we saw each other no more than every, it was like every three months or just a little less.
Just a little over where he's grading exams. And we figured out that a flight from Belgium to Miami in January was like $400. Um, and so round trip. Round trip. So we would meet down there, he'd grade his papers by the pool, I'd hang out for, you know, a week, 10 days, and then we'd see each other, you know, a few months later.
And drum spirit was helping, you know, pay for one flight a year plus. Miles. Mm-hmm. Plus cheap flights and you know, we, we made it work. He had the whole summer off because of school. Um, so we'd spend six weeks together over the summer and yeah,
that's what I learned about, uh, credit cards with airlines first.
I think it was like probably a week into us dating. You brought it up. I, I was very foreign to the concept also. 'cause credit cards worked differently in mm-hmm. In Belgium. Um, but that's one way we, you know, paid for flights and Yeah. Find the cheap ones. 'cause I had a lot of time off very regularly. Yeah.
And Chelsea was very flexible with time off. We know some US couples long distance that would go longer without seeing each other than us, so. Yeah.
Yeah. No, some of the couples I'm most fascinated by are the ones who have, have spent and continue to spend so much time apart. 'cause they technically live in different countries.
Um, even if it's France to Germany or Germany to Spain, or you name it. The fact that you can live in a different country than your partner and make it work and figure it out, that just tells me like everything really is figureoutable. Like we're all just being lazy. Otherwise,
that's it. Yeah. I, I think it was honestly also good for us to kind of keep our freedom, 'cause we were both happy singles when we met.
Mm-hmm. And Chelsea with teaching and her business and still working at Apple. And then, yeah. I, I don't know. It was, when we were together, it was a lot of quality time and then we kind of Or a
vac Yeah. Vacation basically. Yes. So we were living in this dream world where. We were both single. I hadn't dated anybody in eight years.
And then mm-hmm. The person I'm dating is international and every time we see each other, we're going to, we'd meet in a new country or go on a cruise or you know, a travel travel down the west coast. Yeah. Really? Yeah. So,
well, and I mean, even you, everyone underestimates how much work you want to give to your business when you start, like people, there's workaholics and there's entrepreneurs and it's different in most of the time.
We love what we're doing, so if we can sneak in a few extra hours to do what we love, we're gonna find it. And I remember when I launched full-time in entrepreneurship myself, Jesse was working in restaurants still. So he would work a lot when I shouldn't have been working in theory. For me, I was like, he's working tonight.
I get to keep working. Like it really was not a good habit builder, but even now if he's like, I wanna go out, I'm like, okay, go ahead. I'm gonna work on a new project. Bye.
Yeah. Can relate. Except we're just kind of always together now, especially with the quarantine. So we, we often don't really have time to ourselves except for our offices.
So, which are in our house, I five feet apart. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. I also wanna rewind a little bit in the timeline. I, something else I that really worked well for long distance is that you actually get to know each other really well. 'cause the only thing you can do is talk. Mm-hmm. Like, you can get stuck on the couch just watching movies or series.
'cause that in, in a way is quality time. And especially when it's. Really busy with work and stuff, but in that moment you don't really bond more, you know?
Yeah. It's very intimate. We went, yeah, we went two years into dating before
ever watching a movie together. Yeah. That's impressive. That should be a, a hashtag like couple school.
Yeah. Yeah. Something like that.
No, because it's, it's the, the talking part is what matters, right? There's, I, that's what I think gets missed so often. Like when you, when you can't have the in-person excitement with people that you can get, if you're dating in the same place, it can be really distracting, right?
Because you're, you're seeing them like you're doing things, there's group stuff, but if all you have is talking to each other, you're gonna figure out pretty quickly, do I even like this human? That's right.
Yeah. Uh, something else that was funny was we have two. Uh, couples here in Nashville who are dear friends and their names are, um, Adam and Dana and then Neil and Kirby.
And to me, for the longest time, they were one couple 'cause they were like always mentioned in the same context. 'cause they would always hang out together. Um, so you get to know these people, you know, through Chelsea. Storytelling. Storytelling. Yeah. Yeah. But then eventually you get to meet them, which they're now very much, you know, their own person in my mind.
Um, I I, I thought that was always interesting until I met them like, okay, you're now a, a full person, 3D three dimensional, you know,
two separate couples and then four actual individual people. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and that makes me think about, um, I see a really powerful analogy about how we talk to customers in that sense.
Of how we spend so much time trying to do speed dating, but we don't spend enough time just talking to them and making sure that we like each other. Um, so we had take that back to Thrive, um, for next, for next call. But it's true, like what would it be like if you did a long distance relationship with your customers and how that's really what we're doing with email and social media if we use it correctly?
I would hope
most my website clients don't live in Nashville or Tennessee, actually. Um, I was very used to Zoom calls before, before the quarantine. Um, and yeah, there, there's, I do allow, 'cause you know, on the one hand it's not efficient in one way to even have small talk, but it's so important for the relationship and it, you know, just.
Building trust.
Building trust, yeah. And just learning about the person on the other end of the line. I mean, including yourself, you know, and then finally meeting up, uh, when we're in Southern California or just o other clients too. It just helps build a relationship. And yeah, these calls are work calls, but if you actually like the client or customer and then it, it's just way more fun.
Like, I think Parker, who is now helping out with Cine, who is in Nashville, um, is just a really cool and reliable person and
mm-hmm. She's
at our house 'cause Cine is at our house and it, it is just really helps you know that she's not a stranger who we don't care about.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it allows you to tell, like, especially in your business, Tomas, right?
Like you're helping tell people's stories through their websites most of the time. Right. And if you don't know them, like people are so bad at talking about themselves, so they're, you're gonna miss something or. You're able to see copy and be like, um, you're cooler than that, so can we change this copy?
Like, something like that. And same with Cine, right?
Yeah. That's how I feel about my intro for the first time I was on the podcast and now, and now I'm like, ah, I don't know if I summarized that too well, but we'll get into it.
Yeah. And, and what you're saying, I mean, it relates to branding 'cause they'll mm-hmm.
Explicitly say things and, you know, I'll, I'll do more or less branding depending on the project. Mm-hmm. But the website is always a reflection of their brand and a lot of my clients are, they kind of are their brand or it's a very strong connection. So I, when they send me something, maybe a site they like, and I'm like, I, I see what you're saying, but it doesn't feel very you, you know?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kind of going from there both explicitly and just through what I learned, uh, in those, I don't know, five-ish minutes at the beginning of every, every call. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and, and Chelsea with cine, your whole business model is giving people what they need. Right? So you, the fact that you have such an intimate relationship with them, that marching band community and with the actual people that use it every day, like you're able to be a fast mover in those spaces, right?
That you never would be able to otherwise. So, um, yeah, it just, the, the love language concept keeps popping up like over and over again in, in business. Um, but coming back to you guys and you guys as a power couple, you not only have been a power couple and figuring out how to master an international worldwide romance with two busy people, but you've also mastered both being entrepreneurs, both working from home and still achieving.
Things that people think. I think people get nervous. They can't achieve normal milestones if they choose to design their own life. Like you guys own a home, you guys are married, like you guys have a dog, you guys travel, you have friends. Like you still have a very normal life, but you've constructed it to work for you.
Was that an active conversation that you guys had from the beginning of your relationship or how did, who kind of has driven that as you guys have evolved?
I think I've driven it mostly because I was already self-employed and he was looking for a change. Like he went from this really structured, you know, college professor, uh, lifestyle, which he still had a lot of free time, which is one of the reasons he loved the job and he had always been interested in coding and design.
Um, and when he moved here, he wasn't allowed to work for six months, seven months. Mm-hmm. Um, so it gave him time to teach himself. And he was so structured. I mean, he, he sat in his office more than I sat in my office just coding and working on projects that we'll never see the light of day, but just to, you know, give him those repetitions, uh, on what it was he was, you know, trying to do.
Um, and I think he saw that. Okay, well it doesn't make a lot of sense that if Chelsea has all this, you know, freedom per se, at least in schedule and lifestyle, that he then goes to an office and works a nine to five. Um, not to mention that he wasn't even allowed to work at the time. So then you kind of, you kind of get used to that of like, okay, I'm working from home and throwing in a load of laundry and, you know, doing all this.
Mm-hmm. And we have, we still have the weekends free, or if we wanna take Wednesday afternoon off to go have lunch or go for a hike. 'cause the weather's nice. You know, these are all things that, that we can do. Um, and now our house has just become this big think tank where, you know, yeah, we're building our own businesses.
You know, the, the business that we're working on right now, I mean, was came from just sitting on the couch and deciding, let's think of everything we do and use and how we can make it better. And just. The very classic laying on your back on the couch looking up and pacing around the living room is legitimately what we did to come up with, with new ideas.
It was prompted the new business, it was prompted by Chelsea saying, let's make a million dollars.
Mm-hmm.
Because we, before that had been talking about like with her business smarts and, and just marketing experience and then me being able to design and code. It's like between the two of us, we have enough to start a business.
Um mm-hmm. Obviously as it grows, we'll need more people, but, and, and the million dollars, it's kind of random, kind of not 'cause mm-hmm. Steve, we're very fortunate that it is Chelsea's full-time income. Um, but it's also, she's learned so much.
And
it's like, well, it's really a niche within a niche. Like if we can take that and just have a bigger market, then a million dollars becomes tangible.
Yeah. Sea mine's not gonna be a million dollar business, and nor do I really want it to be. 'cause then I think it strays away from the people it's truly helping. Um, if it's making that much money, then it's, it's not really doing what, you know, at its core was meant to do. Potentially. I mean, I've never really truly tried to dissect that too, too much.
But ultimately I was like, you know. I want, Cine is my hobby. I'm so passionate about it. And one of the reasons I wanted to start a new business was because it is, cine is so personal to me. Mm-hmm. That if something pops up or someone's copying us or they, uh, you know, choose to not use our product anymore, even if it's for a totally, you know, legit understandable reason.
It's hard to not take that personally because I'm like, I just, I wanna help you. I want you to help me. I wanna fund this scholarship. Like, I wanna get cool pictures and videos of you. I wanna, you know, I just wanna make you feel special, but we can't do that if you don't use this stuff. Um, just, yeah. So I would love for Steve to get to this point where, you know, all of this money is going away, uh, to the, you know, the people that the products serve, which now it is in excess, um, you know, with the scholarship program.
But I'd love to have this disconnect where I. I'm passionate about this thing, it all goes away. Mm-hmm. There's, there's nothing, you know, self-serving about it except for the fulfillment of helping people. But then we have this other business that's just so much bigger than, than Cine is. Um, that really, I don't know, also pushes my business skills, at least as they stand.
Uh, transitioning from this is very much a small business, a mom and pop style business. Siva into, you know, we're building something that I don't know has a lot more reach.
I do have a few things about life design before we talk more about business, maybe. Mm-hmm. Um, unless you had another follow up question or a different one,
I was just asking what the company's name is yet.
'cause I don't think you've said it yet.
Can
we say it? Yeah.
Uh, it's gonna be called Te, which is spelled TEEQ. Perfect. So we'll dive into the details of that.
Yes. All
right. I
like it. First reveal. Heard here. Yeah, I like it. It is, it is. Yeah.
Um, yeah, just life design wise, I think. Yeah. I mean, Chelsea was my first coach ever in, in business.
Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I think some things kind of happened and then in retrospect, 'cause you know, people talk, we have some friends who are like thinking about dating long distance and they're like, call us for our input. And, um, making those things explicit. Like there's mm-hmm. There's a few things I think helped and that we now kind of have in our system.
One thing is we used to do, um, waffle Wednesdays and it, every Wednesday we would cook with our friends and it was, uh, the two of us and then our friend John, and our friend Matt. And we would just rotate houses cooking for each other. And that was a great way for me too. I mean, make friends and get to know John and Matt better.
Um, and it's a good pastime. And we love cooking. And they love cooking. Um, and that now it, it's like I really didn't have that difficult of a time immigrating. I mean, it came with its struggles and frustrations and sometimes still does. Um, but that's a big one, is I think
mm-hmm.
We've realized that social interaction is very important, especially both of us working from home.
Um, that's also one reason we live closer to downtown Nashville, so we're. Where things happen. Mm-hmm.
I also wanna say, like with Waffle Wednesday in particular, it was, it came out of necessity because he was here living off of his savings.
Yeah.
And you know, we couldn't afford to eat out every, you know, once a week, twice a week with, with friends.
But we wanted to see friends and if we're gonna, everyone's gotta eat dinner and mm-hmm. You know, waffle Wednesday has only, I think twice ever actually had waffles. It was just, it's always, it's always just been about having dinner on Wednesdays. 'cause you know, who has something going on on a Wednesday night.
Um, and yeah, it was just a way to, I know further immigrate, meet people, socialize.
Yeah. Budget is another one. We lived very frugally for about a year and a half. 'cause we had to. And now it's just a good exercise. We're,
we're still very frugal. We are. And,
and now by design, 'cause it's like, yeah, we're just gonna now spend our extra money on the new business or
mm-hmm.
Um, just things we care about, we will spend money on and things we don't care about, we won't. And, you know, if things go worse financially, we know we can live on a smaller budget too. And it's very empowering. Um, and you
guys also know how to make more money if you need to. Yeah. Right. Like that's, I think that's such a, a freedom providing skill, which is why powerful ladies became business-centric.
Because if you know how to turn something into money, you like, you can play closer to the edge because. You know how to make it happen all over again if you would need to. Yeah.
And there's things that we say no to now where mm-hmm. Where, and now we're actually getting to the point where like, I don't really wanna do that, but I'll, I'll see what they say.
If I double my price, and if they say yes, then I'll do it. And then they say, yes. You're like, wait, I didn't actually wanna do this now. I, they still have to because I named my price and they met it. Um, so now we're, we're really trying to pick and choose the things that we wanna spend our time on and you know mm-hmm.
How we wanna spend the money that we're making too. So.
Well, and that brings me back to ice cream. 'cause before we started recording, we were talking about how after this you guys have been doing yard work all morning. Now you're recording the podcast, you're going after ice cream after, and something I think that you guys do so well and it's based off of.
I think a book that Chelsea recommended to Tomas who sent to me that I'm now passing on to other people as well. I'm like, no, no, you can't buy it yourself. I have to give it to you. Like it, it came to me. I had to give it to you. So everyone I'm talking to about, I'm sending them these books now, but, um, the power of moments and celebrating and doing the things that are fun, like I've been working on my co with my coach right now about getting back to being ridiculous, like doing the things just because they're fun.
To living in a community where going to Belgium for a weekend wouldn't be weird. Like it'd be too short, but we could still do it. And other people would say no. There's the ice cream thing reminded me about like, how do we celebrate now? And that's what the, the waffle Wednesdays make me think about too, right?
Like, we don't need to wait until we have the million dollar business to start acting and having a way of being like, you have a million dollar business already, which is part of the secret, I think that you guys. Have mastered. Um, it's not about having all the money. It's like how you're spending your time and who it's with.
Right.
And ice cream is, I mean, that's one example because it's like, yeah, well we love ice cream, we love sweetss. It's a beautiful day out. We earned it, you know, in terms of our, uh, weekend chores, but also like, we're gonna bring our dog. Our dog also loves ice cream. They give a free little scoop to Rachel when we go.
They get so happy. It's like everybody's happy. It's like you're in an ice cream shop. We're eating ice cream. Our dog's eating ice cream. They get to see a dog. We're then we sit outside, we're getting sun in our face and like, wow, why wouldn't you do this?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Take advantage of what's, what's right now.
Um, I think Tomas, you probably had a few more things you wanted to say before we move off of what you guys have mastered.
There was kind of a last thing in there is some job offers have come my way. Um mm-hmm. Kind of usually unexpected. Um, like I once seriously sat down and updated my LinkedIn bio for the first time in a long time.
And this offer came in and it's two particular offers that were very attractive. And for me it, it, it's the whole struggle and frustration of becoming self-employed. And, you know, there's, I, I think there's kind of a transition from freelancing to entrepreneurship. Like, I, I don't feel like freelancing is entrepreneurship, like running a business.
Mm-hmm. Um, but you know, they have a lot of overlap. And I was like, you know, we had been on this budget for a long time and I was like, yeah, I can probably, I don't know, double my income taking this job and live very, um. Comfortably for, for some time, and then maybe, you know, set, set more money aside to then kind of get back to freelancing and being an entrepreneur.
But I did turn down those two jobs and those were two moments where everything became explicit. Where it's like, how much do we make? How much can we make? You know? Um, I think healthcare was in that discussion too. Um, but also the lack of freedom, um, because it's like, yeah, well now can we still work from Belgium for two weeks?
Can I just take a random Thursday afternoon off? And mm-hmm. That, those were two good turning points and one was very recent and, and the, the people there were very nice. They were very much concerned with it being a great match, and I really appreciate that. And eventually I turned it down because I was like, yeah, it's just not the life I wanna live right now.
Which, the interesting thing about all of that is. I think he's had these opportunities over the last few years, and I've always let him do whatever he wants, but I've said, if your reason is money, you shouldn't do it. Um mm-hmm. Because I would much rather us continue to live frugally while you figure this out.
And I, I mean, he's gotten so much further in such a short amount of time than I did, and for him, he just sees how much further ahead I am in my business that, you know, I could go four or five days without doing any work, and everything would just still be fine and money would still be coming in and going, you know?
Mm-hmm. It's just very streamlined in that way. Um, but this was the first time where he. You know, made that decision like truly by himself without needing any encouragement of like, it's okay. Like, you, you don't need to do this. Um, which is cool.
Yeah. And it was, I mean, part of it is I, I journal and that's a great way for me to organize thoughts.
And these calls, it was like three calls in a row, like every Friday. Um, and, and it was good 'cause it was, I can kind of backtrack and trace my thought process of the pros and cons and then eventually landing on, yeah, I'm, I'm not gonna take it. And now I feel very confident. Any job offer that's gonna come my way, I'm just, I'm not even, because now it, it would be a waste of time, you know?
Mm-hmm. Like those calls were, it's like, ah, I could be working on something and be productive, but they were actually also productive to now just be able to say no and mm-hmm. Work on the, the projects I actually have going on.
Yeah. Get back to playing offense.
Yeah. And, and knowing what you don't want, you know?
Mm-hmm. I, I'm very bad at knowing what I want, but it's good. It's always a good exercise to have, to learn what I don't want, you know?
Well, and, and I think, um, people like us who know that there's lots of choices, right? Like, we can see all the roads, like, do you wanna live in Australia? Do you wanna live in Italy?
Like, we can literally, like literally live wherever you want. So like, that can be overwhelming. And then, you know, you, you know, you, when you know that you have access to whatever you want, it can be hard to choose exactly what you do want. But usually those core fundamentals, as you're saying, come from knowing what you don't want.
Like, I don't wanna work for a nine to five. I don't wanna be stuck in one location. I don't wanna work with people I don't wanna work with. Like, for me, it always comes back to what freedoms do I want. Yeah, I want the freedom to make as much money as I want, or as little as I want. I want to live where I want to work with who I want to work on projects I want to.
And so those boundaries, which seem so unclear sometimes actually help all the other choices come together, but. For somebody who really wants like what's your five year plan? I'd be like, I don't know more of this, but cooler things at bigger levels. Like is that enough? Oh man, it makes me feel
so good that you don't have a clear answer to that question because I don't either.
No, and I think like what you think of as freedom changes over time. 'cause I worked at the Apple store for nine years and I thought that was freedom and you know, it really was at the time. I could, yeah. Get the weekends off if I really needed to. I found a way to work that system. If I wanted to take a month off to go to Belgium, they let me do that.
Um mm-hmm. Yeah. I made enough money. Like I was, I had ev every, this is very comfortable. Um, yeah. And then, you know, all of a sudden those concrete floors and glass walls, you know, really do feel like a, a cage and you're like, I can't believe I'm wearing a name tag and that I have to mm-hmm. Tell someone when I'm going to lunch.
And it's like, yeah, but you only work like six months a year with all the travel that you do. It's like, but it's a prison. Uh, and now like, I could never imagine, you know, working there again. Um, but when I was, you know, from 18 to what, 26, you know, up until the end of me leaving, I, it was a very freeing position.
But now mm-hmm. What I'm doing now feels more free. Probably the, the freest I could be, and
two things about that job I think are really interesting was. You took the freedom that was baked into the system, like you never broke any rules.
I never broke any rules. People were like, I, you, how do you do this?
I'm like, we literally worked the same job. We have the same position, same amount of money, and somehow I figured out how to do this. Like you could do it too. And, and honestly, some people did. Um, a woman who got hired there, uh, later in my tenure, I basically just took her under my wing and she learned all the different things to make the job work for her.
Um, it's probably the only reason that, you know, some people can stay for as long as that they, that they do is that they make it work for them. So that's probably with anything.
I wanna give you credit too, for being someone who is always looking at how do I optimize this, right? Because I feel like I did the same thing working in what I did in fashion, in sport fashion.
And I should, I was being strategic about like, okay, how many countries do I wanna go to? How can I justify trips there? How can I coordinate seeing someone like whatever else I wanted in life? I was always trying to make that job, provide it, because you can, but there are so many people who like never took their vacation, never tried to like parallel these trips.
Like, yeah. One of the hardest things about being an entrepreneur is that now I have to pay for my travel or before somebody else did. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and we do that too with some of the, like when I would go to Belgium, for example, okay. They buy my flight to and from Belgium. I'm there for a month. I only teach two days a week.
Mm-hmm. And then I just book myself a flight. I'd go to London, I'd go to Paris. I, you know, we mm-hmm. Went to Berlin for my birthday one year. It's just, you know, you find ways to kick stuff in where drum spirit's like, do you wanna come for two weeks? And I'm like, how about four? And then I get to check off all these places I'd always wanted to go to for not very much extra money.
Mm-hmm.
Another one is when I was in college, there's, um, and so in Belgium you take finals in June, but then if you fail a final at the end of the summer, you can actually retake it, go, like right before the new academic year starts. And so what. And a few friends would do. 'cause we were doing drum corps in the summer, so marching band over here in the States is just, it didn't quite line up.
So what I did is I skipped all my finals in June and then retook 'em in, or actually took 'em for the first time in August. And I, I remember one of my best friends, like his girlfriend at the, so he was doing the same thing. Mm-hmm. And his girlfriend at the time was complaining to me about this. It's like weird 'cause, you know, preached to the choir.
But secondly she said, that's not normal. Uh, and I am sure both of you have experienced the same thing where you're just kind of telling people earlier, life design plan, this is before I ever even used that word, but it's like, yeah, it's not normal, but why is normal? Normal? Like, I'm not doing anything illegal.
Um, I'm, I'm still. I was still passing, you know, because that was always my parents' requirement, is that I could do whatever I wanted. Um, as long as my grades were good.
I distinctly remember the moment I was in college, I was at a CVS and I was going to decorate a, uh, boyfriend's room to feel like an aquarium.
'cause we had this whole conversation. So I was buying all this blue cellophane to like, hang on the walls, to like put basically fish and things behind it to create this illusion. And I remember being there with all this stuff. I basically buying out their whole stock. And the woman at the counter is like, what are you doing?
And she looked at me like I was insane. And I was like, I now know whenever somebody looks at me like I'm insane. I'm doing something awesome. And that was it. It was like, just confirmation that, am I making you uncomfortable? You think this is crazy or not normal? I'm winning. We're gonna keep searching for that look.
Mm-hmm.
So now you guys are, this is the first company that you guys are working on together from the beginning, right? Not like helping out, not supporting.
I think Chelsea's always been around for my business.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We've, we've, we have started some other smaller projects together, but this is like the first thing that's a little bit more of a big deal, I guess.
Yes.
How has it changed your dynamic or how you guys interact creating something that's of the significance from the beginning together?
I would say not much. Mm-hmm. One thing is, so we're at the point, so we, so we're recording this right now, end of March. We wanna launch in, let's call it two months. Um, we are talking about, uh, equity split for founders.
Mm-hmm. So we are the two founders, um, and it's. You ask different people about it and everyone has a different opinion. Mm-hmm. We've been told, you know, 'cause we we're, we very much feel like it was both our idea, like just talking about it. Like we kind of drew inspiration and put it together. And so it's like, well at the end of the day, I very much at this time feels like 50 50.
Mm-hmm. And then a lot of people will advise, don't do that, do 51 49, but then our attorney, the attorney or a lawyer, I don't know the difference. Yeah. Same. So, so our lawyer. Advise against that. 'cause in his opinion, I mean in his professional experience, that eventually doesn't look great to investors because it's like, oh, you
really couldn't just agree on 50 50.
Like someone really needed that one more percent. Like it doesn't, and then as soon as you start giving part of the company away, like if you need to get investors, then nobody has 51% everyone's below.
Mm-hmm.
50.
So, and then Yeah, you, you know, it, it does make, 'cause it's easy. I mean, at the end of the day, 'cause this is very interesting, it doesn't matter 'cause we're married, so we own half of what we own anyways.
Yeah.
Um, and there's that conversation too, you know. If the business becomes really successful, and if we ever got a divorce, this will matter. Mm-hmm. So it's part of the discussion, not of the daily narrative.
More, more likely, or rather than divorce, is that one of us just doesn't wanna work on the business anymore.
Like we just grow out of it and maybe we're not ready to sell the business yet, but I don't wanna be the CEO or he doesn't wanna be, you know, the CPO or what, whatever the case is.
So on the one hand, it's in a way it doesn't really matter. Um mm-hmm. But it does matter in a lot of other ways, so that, I mean, we have had, you know, serious conversations about it.
Yeah.
And we also had to land on titles, like, okay, yeah. At the end of the day, who's the CEO?
And, and the titles was more like, well, what is it that you actually wanna work on with this business? Yeah. And what are our strengths? It's not like. Well, I'm the CEO, so what are you gonna be like, how are you gonna contribute to the rest of everything?
It's, it's more like, okay, well how are you gonna help this thing grow? So you, you don't just, you know, feel like you're building the website, you know, just the website. Like, and yeah, you obviously have laid a bigger hand in this already, so what can we associate that with? And we finally, um, landed on CPO, chief Product Officer, which we feel great.
That just sums it up, you know, we're we, yeah, we are both coming up with the product, but he is into the meticulous, you know, aspect of what it's gonna be and how it's gonna feel. And, you know, we're both coming up with what we want it to do, you know, after the initial launch. And what that exactly means is, you know, really something that he can take the reins on.
Um,
well, and you, you know, one of the things that impresses me about you guys as a couple is that there's a level of practicality where you can separate. Um, your emotions or ego from whatever you're tackling, right? Like, even though you're so, uh, committed to each other, if you need to talk about a third thing, you can stay over here and talk about it.
Where a lot of people can't do that, right? Where no matter what they're talking about, the relationship and the feelings and whatever you last thought about or like in there too, and I, and at least from the outside in, it looks like you guys can have those intellectual conversations, then turn around and be like, okay, now let's talk about us again.
But over here we're talking about the business and
Yeah.
It's, that's really unique, I think.
Yeah, and I mean, honestly, we probably couldn't, if we're disagreeing, couldn't shift that quickly. Yeah. Um, we
haven't really disagreed on any, oh, no, we, we really don't fight. And it's not because we're burying feelings or anything.
Um. We only really have one memorable disagreement, and he has owned up to it. So,
um, but yeah, I don't know. We're just easygoing. We see it very, mm-hmm. I don't know, just factually and mm-hmm. Uh, he's already so methodical. Um, mm-hmm. And kind then, I don't know.
Yeah.
You guys really respect each other, which is, you know, another core foundation I think in, in the relat in relationships in general.
Right. You've talked a lot. You respect each other.
His parents ne I've never heard him or his parents. Ever raise their voice? I don't even know if he knows how to.
I do. Um, that was when I was teaching college.
You've, okay, so you've done it. I've, I've personally never seen it or experienced it, whereas me, I'm like, I have this whole Northeastern, you know, uh, backing to me where I'm constantly been suppressing those feelings.
Uh, for the longer that I've moved away from, from my family, that's when I was younger, definitely what I would gravitate towards is being excitable. Mm-hmm. But yeah, now I, I really don't like being that person and I, and I really feel like I'm not anymore. Uh, it's definitely something I had to teach myself and.
And
move away from move.
Yeah, I mean, just, I love my family to death, but like we are just complete opposite personalities. And it honestly took dating Tomas for me to realize that is that they're so high strung. They're very stereotypical northerners where they're loud and they curse and they're having a drink and smoking a cigarette and everything is just a disaster or incredible.
There's just absolutely, you know, nothing in between that. Um, and when I was younger I definitely had a temper, like a, I will scream and yell, kind of temper something that's completely embarrassing to even think about. Um, and that, you know, it's, that's definitely not a way I act, uh, anymore. Uh, and a lot of that just comes from moving away.
But then dating him and my grandma once, uh, said to him that you really. How did she put it? You really bring out this,
you, you that I mellow her out
and then his response was, I don't think I mellow her out. I think you stress her out. And that was, and that was the first time I realized like, wow, maybe that's not the person that I naturally am.
'cause if all of my friends say I'm a really chill person, and they could never see me raising my voice, like I don't even feel like I have that ability, but I, I know that I do and I have. Mm-hmm. And that was the first time it really clicked to me that maybe that's not my natural personality. That that's something that's gets drawn out of me from frustration.
And I get angry because other people are angry and then, then you get defensive because of all of that. Um, I don't like it.
I also think as a couple, you gotta read each other's signs. And I, I think. If we feel any, and it's not even conflict, but any friction brewing, really the response for both of us is we need space and mm-hmm.
I mean, we live in the same house. We're still in some kind of quarantine, you know? Um, but honestly, just go into different rooms and then like, not let it escalate. 'cause I, mm-hmm. We were watching this TV show and they were, it was, wait,
no. Lemme preface this with, before watching this TV show, which I was watching by myself, the only time I've ever seen Tims cry was on our wedding day.
He pops in. So I'm nine out of 10 episodes into this season of the show is called Dave, which is Little Dickies show. And it's, it's, it sounds silly, but it's really, really well done. And there's a scene where Dave and his girlfriend in the show are getting in a dis a disagreement, and he, and it's, it's escalating.
Like they're both saying the things where you're like, oh, feel it
coming,
this is gonna erupt. And he, this is where he pops in. He's like, watching this scene, hasn't seen anything before. And they start fighting and he starts crying
because he finally said the one thing that's like really hurtful on a personal level doesn't even have to do with the con it, it's along the lines of like, you always do this or you never.
Mm-hmm. Or I, I don't even know what he said.
Yeah, you don't care about this or that and
Yeah. Or like a, you know what, you can't even get a job. Like something of that magnitude where it's like, yeah. The only reason, it's
not even true, but you know, it'll hurt. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes.
And, and we don't get to that point.
Like when we had our disagreement, I, I mean, we needed space and, and I went to my journal and kind of backtracked all the steps, like why I was at fault admittedly, and
mm-hmm.
I don't know, just what happened and how I don't, I shouldn't let that happen. That's, yeah. We're, we're
pretty good at, I think we're very good at preventing things from that happening, and that's why it has really only happened once, so.
Mm-hmm. And so, you know, when you guys look at, for people who are listening that, that want to take more steps to design their life, are there practical things that you recommend that they should do? Um, how do they get to find that power that. You, Chelsea, just so naturally see and want to, to step into.
There's, um, a financial guru, his name is Ramit Seti, I don't know if you're familiar with him. Mm-hmm. And he, his book is, I'll Teach You To Be Rich. And his whole thing is you pick and choose what your rich life is gonna be. If you're, if having a rich life to you is getting to go on two vacations a year, great.
If your rich life is that you get to eat at a nice restaurant twice a week, or that you're gonna spend 10% of your paycheck on new sneakers, that's great. Then you pick that thing that's really gonna make you happy. You obviously can't pick everything. So you choose the things that are gonna make your life feel rich.
And I think that that's really what we do is with what really brings us happiness, uh, with what we decide to be frugal on. Like, I know. Mm-hmm. Factually that we make half as much as some of our friends do, and yet they always seem strapped for cash and we never do. And we go on three, four times as many trips as they do.
Um, yeah. We, you know, we don't spend our Saturdays at Target and Home Goods, um, or I don't know, drive. We don't have two cars. You know, like, there's lots of, there's lots of things that we just don't, um, do that, um, really, they don't bring us joy and they mm-hmm. Those things probably do bring them joy. They just don't bring us joy.
Um, and I think that we're able to maximize and really decide, okay, this is, this is what we wanna spend our time and money on. And eating out is just not one of those things. We love cooking. Mm-hmm. We're good at it, you know? Yeah. We're just not gonna go to a restaurant. It's not gonna taste as good, so we're just not gonna do that.
And so I, I really think it just comes down to. You can't have it all. And it's, it's not even that you can't, it's that you don't actually want all of those things.
Mm-hmm.
So,
yeah. And, and, and before you add Tomas, I just wanna point out to everyone listening, you're the second power couple to reference that book.
Oh, really? So everyone go back. You can listen to Mark and Elizabeth McGarry's episode because that was the book that they went to. Elizabeth found it and gave it to her husband when he was deciding, can I leave my corporate job to be an entrepreneur like you are too.
So, yeah. And uh, the thing that really hooked me in that really spoke to me was he gives the example of ordering a cup of coffee versus a latte.
Mm-hmm. It's like, okay, if you get a latte every single day, instead of a cup of coffee, you're gonna spend an extra dollar on your drink. And if you drink one of those every single day, it's 365 extra dollars per year. Is that life changing money? No. Do you like the latte? That much more than the cup of coffee.
Yes. Okay. That brings me joy. So I'm not even gonna think about ordering a little bit cheaper drink at the coffee shop, uh, when we go. It's just, you know, it's not about that.
And that example really speaks to us. 'cause that is the category of spending where we don't watch our spending
mm-hmm. Is one of them.
Yeah.
Yeah. Um, yeah. Just in my taxes experience and
an office, right? It's a second office. You're at the coffee shop, you're being social, you get to have a different head space. The, exactly. The 365, suddenly really you're getting the ROI you're getting is $3,000 from it, not a latte. Mm-hmm. Yeah,
exactly.
Yeah. Something he also said, I don't think it's in the book, but on podcasts, is don't play victim.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that is super important to anyone who is, you know, who needs security in their life. It can. Very easily translate into playing victim. And it can be financially like, oh, I have all this stuff to pay for, or I have to, you know, see these friends or hang out with this per, or I have to wear this.
Or, I mean, you name it, there's so many times we do that. Like, I mean, everyone does it, you know, it's like once you stop doing that, it's very freeing. And then yeah, then you do find this money or, or financial risk. Um, I, I think a big one with becoming self-employed is that financial risk. And it's like, I, this I take from Tim Ferris, um, you know, what's the worst case scenario and prepare for that.
And it's very stoic. Like he will literally do like, I don't know, a week at a time, live on just. I don't know, pb and j and water
and wearing a white t-shirt and he just lives out. Well, what's worst case scenario? We start this new business, it's complete failure. All I can afford to do is eat ramen noodle and wear these Hanes t-shirts.
And then he does that as like a reminder, like, wow, this risk really isn't so bad after all. Mm-hmm. And you write out those things like what is the worst possible thing that that could happen and how, what are things I can do to prevent that? And then you put those things in place and you realize, yeah, okay, I can, it's never gonna get to that point.
If it did, who cares? You know,
something else from him as, because he embarks on a lot of new business ventures is that he sets it up that if or when it fails. 'cause we also know with this tech startup that three out of four fail. Mm-hmm. But if it fails that you still gain something.
Yes.
And so for us, with the new business especially, we are setting it up that way.
So that, yeah, if we lose, I mean, we're basically gonna lose time and money if it fails. Mm-hmm. But what did we gain? You know? Well, we're gonna gain marketable skills that if it ever goes wrong, now we can land sweet new gigs.
Yeah. I, I feel like we're giving ourselves an MBA right now, um mm-hmm. Just with what we're learning and what we're doing.
Mm-hmm. And, um, I personally don't have a college degree. He has two in a field that doesn't really, you know, uh, follow our life choices right now. His, his languages and translation. Um, and I think, I think doing these things like, um, you know, being on the podcast and starting these businesses and whatever ventures, I, I took an internship this year just because I thought that, you know, the.
Company was cool and I wanted to learn something and do something. Uh, I think these are all things that really help us develop as, as people and make us more marketable. But just, just more all knowing. Um, like we always joke about how there's like these life coaches that are 23 years old and it's like, yeah, what do, what do you, what are you coaching on who would never hire you?
I feel like I need to coach you on why you shouldn't be a coach and I'm not even capable of being a coach. Um, uh, yeah. Mm-hmm. It's always nice when people can back, you know, what it is that they're, that they're trying to do. So,
yes. Yeah. No, and I love that you also mentioned about don't choose things for money.
'cause I think so many people get trapped in that security conversation that you were both mentioning of. I need a job to pay for this. Like, hold on. Do you need that thing you're paying for and why? Like, do you need a job? Like let's talk about that. Like the whole thing came about internships recently in the Thrive community.
'cause there's a big blow up about the NFL should pay interns not have it be for school credit. I disagree. And for I can, you know, if anyone wants my reasoning, we can go talk about it on Clubhouse or something. But it's because it's like choosing the experience. It's not that you shouldn't pay people for their work, but you took an internship because it was going to give you something back that like would've been more than whatever the internship would've paid you.
Like even if it's paying you minimum wage, like you got way more than the couple hundred bucks it would've been for the, the internship. So, you know, choosing things that level up your life, I think is one of those foundational things that you guys just do automatically. Right? Like, what's gonna level up my life?
What's gonna be more fun? What's gonna make. My life more interesting or give me something that I get to keep versus something that. I'm gonna give to the Goodwill in six weeks or six months anyway, right?
Yeah. I mean, this internship, it was with a YouTube channel called Yes Theory. And they, they're all about seeking discomfort.
So it's, it's right up our alley of, you know, things that interest us. They're located near you and Southern California. Um, and it was that we got to write pitches of, of episodes, they were gonna go shoot for their channel and we'd get these writing prompts once a week, and then we'd go and have to come up with these four or five adventures that they could potentially go on in that part of the world, or with this, you know, um, with yeah, just, you know, checking off certain boxes and all of a sudden I'm doing research on these crazy things that you can do in the Middle East, uh, or in Mexico, or, you know, or whatever the case is.
Or what would it be like if they created their own town and what, what could they do in the town? How'd they set the town up? And it's like, you're doing these things. They, they may do, they might do them, they might not.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it's a cool exercise to be able to think through that and write it out and research it, and then also bring you, uh, yourself inspiration.
I know I've come up with a bunch of different ideas just from writing for them, um mm-hmm. And other potential business ideas or, you know, I wrote about this place and now we wanna go there. Um. Mm-hmm. And so the money that I'll get, you know, from this internship is definitely not worth the exercise and the inspiration that I got from being a part of it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and you know, when you look at at where the inspiration comes from as well, and like how you're curating it, I know that I choose a life that's inspiring to me. Like that's part of what I, I need. That's why I need the ridiculous list. I need to go back to those things because, you know, my coach had me put.
Like a number on it. 'cause she's a business coach. She's like, all right, do you ridiculous. Whatcha gonna get? I'm like, an extra $250,000 this year just made it up. Right. And I can justify that because I know that doing these ridiculous things or the things that are interesting always leads to a new cool opportunity that I don't even know is there yet.
I just have to say yes and show up and then like things will appear. And I love that life works that way. Like could be a new awesome person, could be a new place to live. Like you found a new place to visit. There's so many possibilities of what's there.
Other, yeah. Other people that are in the internship.
There was a handful of us. We've, we meet every other week still, even though the internship is kind of on, we're transitioning now. Um, and we're still talking. And I have a new friend in Australia and a friend in Canada, and a friend in California and Nebraska, you know, and, and they're all different, you know, ages and backgrounds and interests and, um, you know, this random internship just sort of brought us all together, so.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And I, you kind of hinted at it, Kara, but Yeah. And, and Chelsea, it's also just networking. Like, if you're gonna start this new business, whether it, it starts as a true side hustle, uh, or you're just gonna dive in and, you know, quit your job and spend a full-time job and more on it, you're gonna meet people.
And especially if it's a business. They're gonna be business people who also know business people or who, if it fails, maybe they actually have a job for you, or I mean, what, whatever it is or lead to. This is something I really like about building websites for people. They're all business people, whether they're, you know, I mean, I musician, arguably a freelance musician should be, is it?
Yeah. You know? Yeah. They could learn a lot from approaching things like a business person, um mm-hmm. To, you know, small business or e-commerce or it's, it's all these people I met who are, you know, have their own brand, their own business, and I get to really, um, get to know their business over the course of a couple months.
Mm-hmm. And like, oh, this is how you make money, or This is how you market yourself, or This is what you used to do and how you do this. And honestly, one of those website clients. Um, had a problem that wasn't solved by any technology or apps. His name is Jim, and that was one of the inspirations for teak.
Mm-hmm. Um, so it's like, yeah, it just kind of all works out like that.
Yeah. Should we stop dancing around it and tell you what is Yeah, that's exactly where I was gonna go. I'm
like, wow. Great segue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Chelsea has the pitch more practiced, but I'll jump in at any point you want me to?
Yeah. And I guess a little bit more of a backstory on it is about this time last year, um, before quarantine actually hit and was really a thing, COVID was a thing.
Uh, we. I felt like Cine was in this great place. I had, you know, streamlined a lot of my processes. Um, and I reached out to a friend who had built a tech startup 'cause we had this idea that is now teak. And I said, he's a former drum corps person. He's started two successful tech startups. His name is, uh, Devin Bergman, and he is between Silicon Valley and, and New York.
Um, and I reached out to him and I said, I don't really have any expectations, but I would, I'm seeking business mentorship of someone who's built something so much bigger than I have. Mm-hmm. All my business friends are mostly band business friends and we help each other, but I'm not really progressing at the pace that I'm looking to go to.
And, uh, he was like, yeah, let's do it. Um, and so we started meeting once a week. I told him the timeline of cine and where we started and where we are. Um, he definitely asked me questions on like, are you sure you. You know, maxing this out and, you know, are you really ready to do something new in addition to that?
And, um, yeah, it was some great thought exercises and then ultimately pitched him a couple ideas. And we spent months vetting what is now te uh, before we decided it was a good idea. Uh, and ultimately what teak is, it's gonna be an app, a mobile app, and a web app. Uh, and what we're trying to do is redesign how people give and receive feedback.
And so there's a messaging component, but then there's also an analysis tool that we're building and it'll launch with video and photo capability. So you'll be able to do a voice recording on top, do picture and picture, or just talk full screen. You'll be able to draw on the screen. So if you're trying to develop anything from.
Uh, you're taking piano lessons or you know, drum set lessons, or you're a golfer or a dancer, anything where you're trying to get better over an extended period of time in more detail, um, this app would help you develop those skills and it creates this relationship between the mentor, the teacher, and then the student or you know, the mentee.
Um, and we're basically taking technology that exists in random places and putting it in a streamlined way together to make that experience so much more elevated than what exists out there already.
Yeah. Right now, so the. People have just kind of taken peace with what's out there. For example, for when we teach marching band, we'll have video assignments, and so we'll start a Facebook group with the students from our section, and then they'll upload a video and we'll write comments.
But the video, you can't scrub it properly. You can't slow it down, really. You have to go back and then in text, I have to go in and write. And measure four, the third count your right hand. So I'm describing both rhythm, something audible, and then something visual from the technique and just writing a bunch of texts and then going through three versions of that.
And then I finally submit it. And then they have to decipher that on their end.
So they're going, okay, you said it, 12 seconds in I'm doing this. And then they scrubbed to 12 seconds in, uh, and they're, you know, then reading and, and watching and yeah, it's just, it's just not a good, a good experience, uh, as it stands right now.
So we're trying to, I don't know, just make, streamline it. Yeah. Make learning easier. Um, you know, if you create a course, there's, yeah, great. You have the videos out there, the people receiving that, they watch them, they learn. Maybe like how are they supposed to get confirmation that they're actually developing that skill in a proper way?
So it helps a student, but then also the teacher who might wanna have more interaction, uh, with their, um, followers and students. It gives them an opportunity for another revenue stream, um, but also to give confirmation that the skill that they're an expert at someone else is able to learn as well.
I, I feel like I need to be on your beta team.
I like, because I literally, I feel like I jumped through hoops to communicate things, especially when I'm supporting clients like we're doing, I'm doing helping a client. Their website right now and advising them, which, and it's like taking a screen grab, writing a bunch of notes, doing this. Someone also is sending a video back and I'm like, and yeah.
I mean, that's perfect time zones. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it is asynchronous the way the app works, so it's not gonna be live streaming or anything like that, so you don't need to be on at the same time. Mm-hmm. One of the, mm-hmm. One of our beta testers, uh, owns a gym in dc um mm-hmm. And he is, when he's getting videos from his training clients, they're in a Facebook message, they're on a YouTube link that he doesn't have access to, or Google Drive, or they texted it to him and now he is looking for them and typing them out, and it just puts everything in one place.
It literally happened today, like I'm all day, I'm recording sessions, all the notes I spent doing yesterday when I never work on a Saturday, sent them over. I'm getting texts when I popped out of my last, uh, recording. Like the two links are the same link. And I'm like, motherfucker. So I like jump in, find it, get it back, and like it was just wasted time.
Like they were waiting. I was waiting. So this sounds awesome. Thank you for making it.
Yeah, it, it'll be in the io, the Apple app store. You'll be able to sign up on teak app.com. Hopefully by the time this, uh, podcast episode comes out. Um, and yeah, we really hope that it just makes it easier for people to teach and learn.
Mentor. Can we say Android too? Android as
well? Yeah. Perfect. Well, no, because I hear that this, so. People who I think could use this right now, I think I see anyone that's in the personal fitness space, anyone that's teaching dance, right? Choreography, you guys are doing music instruction. Mm-hmm. Um, anyone who's doing, um, multi-location projects where we can't be in the same space at the same time.
So brand identity, uh, websites, uh, product creation of all kinds. I also hear it for like pe literally people in the coaching business. Like I am like. Anyone who's teaching something or sharing their knowledge, which FYI everyone listening is most of our businesses. Um, that should, that should be put in there because Yeah.
Um, I, I'm not sure who doesn't need this. And I think it'd also be really interesting outside of the teaching space for people who just want to give information. Like why wouldn't a mechanic use teak to tell a customer what's wrong with their car so that I can actually see it, versus you tell me a bunch of stuff that I have no idea what you're saying, but if you point it out to me and be like, oh, it's that thing.
Okay, next time I know that thing needs to be looked at.
And that one way that teak is structured is you can set it up as an individual. So you have, um, oh, I have 10 drum students, so I'm just gonna interact with them. I have a subscription. They have a subscription you can also set up as an organization.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so I'm a gym and there's one trainer or five trainers and they all have their individual clients. So then everything is kind of organized that way. But then if you don't have a, like a mechanic would be a perfect example. Or like a realtor is another one we thought of. Mm-hmm. Where? Mm-hmm. Okay.
They don't necessarily need to have the messaging component, but they really do wanna use the tool, whether it's for, let's say it's a walkthrough video of the house. They record their walkthrough video, they're circling things, they're doing picture and picture. So it feels more personable when they're doing this walkthrough.
Like, oh, you know, this part really excites me about the house 'cause it does X or, or Y. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh. Yeah, so you can kind of use it any way you want. Either just the tool for your individ, whatever your, you know, interests are. You can set up as an organization so you have different, um, you know, sections and teachers really any way you, you wanna use it.
Everybody's on the same level, so whether you're the student or the teacher, everybody has access to the tools.
Yeah, no, I love it. Thumbs up. Approved. I'm excited.
One, yeah. One thing is between the two of us, we'll have our own business ideas and then joint ideas and then, I mean, immediately bounce it off of each other and kind of pick holes in it or not.
And I mean, that was honestly this time last year, we were sitting on some ideas and it's like, okay, well, which one is the best one? Yeah. And I, I read a book that then Chelsea read like. The gist of, it's called Business model Generation and it's, they use what they call the business canvas and it's just a good, you map out kind of, okay, who's the customer?
What's our value proposition? Who are our partners and, and this, how are we gonna make money? Mm-hmm. You know, maybe not on day one, but eventually, or this or that. It's
like me in a book, I gotta get this book.
Yeah, exactly. No, well it's a, yeah, it's a great filter to kind of put your business ideas through and like, maybe you're sitting on an idea and you're thinking about quitting your job, or at least starting mm-hmm.
A side hustle and you really don't know if it's a good idea and or, or you're very convinced it is, but maybe it's not. 'cause how are you ever gonna make money? Or you, you know, like
these are the kind of the exercises that Devin has sort of put me and us through over the last year of like giving us these homework as assignments.
Like, you know, build your business model. Okay. What is, yeah. What is Tam What, what, how much could you possibly make off of this? You know, who's your target audience? Mm-hmm. Like, have you talked to those people? Um, yeah. So we feel like we're set up for at least more success than someone without any guidance.
Um, another cool aspect that I'll, I'd love to point out is that, uh, we're working with an agency, um, called Seven Hills Technology and they're in Cincinnati. And the cool part about the this agency is that one of the partners and one of their, uh, developers are former students of mine, and which is just totally by chance, we tried to find a developer on our own, ended up putting a Facebook post out and this, and actually the developer, uh.
Not the partner, his name is, uh, will, I had reached out to him before the Facebook post and said, Hey, do you, I know you're about to graduate, but like, do you have time to, you know, freelance and blah? I was like, oh, I don't, 'cause I have this internship. It's my last, you know, year of school, blah, blah, blah.
Okay, no problem. So I put the Facebook post up after, you know, trying to find someone on our own. That was kind of the last straw. And this former student, Brian reaches out, Hey, I'm a partner at an agency. We should talk. It's, I'd love to hear what you're working on. He knows cine and my ability to market and, you know, sell things and make them really come to life.
So, pitched him the idea. Loved it, he said, and then he said, yeah, and actually one of our main developers here is Will, and we're probably gonna put him on this project. So now this internship that was taking up his time, why he couldn't work on it, is now what he's working on. And one of the main things he is working on, which is really, really cool.
'cause they speak the lingo. They know exactly how this is gonna be used. Um, yeah. We didn't have to go interview people. Like, he's like, Hey, you were a student of mine. You had video assignments. Tell us about it.
Well, and to me, when those kismet moments happen, I take that as a sign that like, we are on the right path.
This is like, yes. Like when those things happen, it reinforces for me that. I don't know, boost the confidence. 'cause even though when you launch something, you're, you see it, you know, it can happen. But until it's real, you're like, okay, is this really happening? Are you sure we're gonna keep going, but are you sure?
Yeah. And I, I mean, I like having those moments.
I mean, I've known these guys since they were 13, 14 years old, and now to see them transitioning and being in their, you know, professional careers. And I, we told you we've been doing the spring cleaning yesterday. I was going through a box. I found a letter that Will wrote me at the end of a school year thanking me for everything I had, uh, taught him up to that point.
And I said, can you imagine if, mm-hmm eight years ago when you were telling me this, that I said, Hey, make sure you're a good student. 'cause in eight years I'm gonna ask you to be the lead developer on this other project that I haven't dreamt up yet.
Yeah, well it's that networking, right, that you were talking about Tomas, right?
Like this, we never. By being a yes to things that show up in our life that sound fun and interesting and awesome. We really don't know where they're gonna go. We really don't. And I like, one of my favorite things about life is that this keeps happening. We keep, life keeps getting braided together. Um, so to me it's a sign that we're doing the right thing.
Well's. Well's very first, like drumline camp, it was like the summer before he entered high school. It was a two day, two two blocks per day for five days. And he missed the first block all week because he was at a coding camp. And I'm like, what? 13-year-old goes to a coding summer camp and now he's missing drum line and he is falling behind.
And yeah, I was cool with that. I mean, I never gave, I was like, I think that's really impressive that you're doing that. I don't know anything about coding, but uh, just make sure you get caught up on your lunch break. And now to see where that has kind of led him is insane.
It's very cool. Well, as we're wrapping up today, I would love for you guys to answer our two questions we ask everybody.
Um, what does powerful and ladies mean separately and together, and how do you guys feel being called a Power couple? We'll start there.
So I am very ready for the powerful question because I journaled about it because I knew it was coming.
I'll piggyback off it.
Um,
we also talked about this while we were doing chores outside today, pulling weeds and talking about what does powerful mean
to me.
I mean, there's the literal meaning of just having a lot of power, which I think only really works for people. Like it's very narrow and it's not really the meaning. Powerful ladies is about like, you know, there's the mess. Messages can be powerful too. And messages like, I don't know, you can't really say they have a lot of power in themselves.
Like to me, what it's about is there's this radiance to it. This, you know, you can have all the power in the world if you're this still bucket of water, it's not going anywhere and you're not helping anyone. That's not powerful. Um, it has to be this like overflowing source or a river that just spills into people's lives.
And like you, I don't know, you inspire people, you help them or you help them and then end up inspiring them or, you know, this kind of. Yeah, to go back to networking, like, it, it's, you know, the, the helping and the other people component is important to
me. Mm-hmm. I think part of that, and thinking of it from a business aspect, being powerful and, and marketing, and I think they call it like being a sneezer.
Like you learn something and then you just tell everybody that you can as fast as you can, like you learn some loophole or something that just is just so like, like the book, you know, uh, powerful moments that we, uh mm-hmm. Power moments that we shared with you. Um, you know, that's just one of those things where it's like his brother recommended it to me.
I was, I loved it, then I recommended it to him, and then he recommended it to you, and now you're telling everyone, like, we're all just kind of like sharing this information and not keeping it ourselves. And I think that's a really important aspect
as a business owner too. Um, when I freelance for boldly fine, Nick, the owner, our mutual friend, he has always been very supportive and very trusting and mm-hmm.
Has not tried to keep me dumb enough, you know, but smart enough, I was always like, here's everything I have. Here's everything I know has been very, very supportive of Clawson, who on paper is a competitor. You know, if you look at it that way. But now that I'm also hiring my contractors, I'm very, so, I'm very appreciative to Nick for that.
And I wanna be the same way to my contractors. 'cause they're freelancers and they need coaching and mentorship on what to put in your contract and how much to charge. Which, you know, I, when, when I have to pay them, I, it, it's a conversation. 'cause it's like, yeah, it's a good exercise for you. Do you have to quote me money, but I already had, you know, an amount in my,
and and he is the nice guy where he is like, I know you said that you would do this for 500, but I just want you to know that you should never do anything for less than a thousand.
You know, it's like, yeah, well yeah, because
that's literally something Nick told me and it mm-hmm. Yeah, that's important. And I, I mean, it, it's about other things too. Way more technical encoding or InDesign, like, yeah, here's, here's templates I set up. Here's again the contract. Use whatever you want. 'cause my contract was originally based on two other people's contracts and you know, over time you'd add something or whatever.
And I, I think that's super important. 'cause you know, it'll go a long way. And, and I think with Chelsea's students too, I think something important too is just being a good person.
Mm-hmm.
Not being an asshole to people you work with or teach, or who teach you. Um, 'cause then eventually it'll come back to you, you know?
Yeah. I definitely felt like at the time I would do anything for them and I used all my free time to teach them. I've lost money teaching the school that I, that I taught at when, where Will and Brian were. Um, but now, you know, here we are, um mm-hmm. On this new adventure and Yeah. It's crazy.
Yeah.
And then, I don't know, I think in terms of being a powerful couple, I do think we're a powerful couple.
And I do think that, uh, people admire some of our adventures and our willingness to just go and do stuff, whether it's
mm-hmm.
Businesses or it really traveling ha was, has always been a big part, um, saying yes to each
other.
Yeah. Just saying, saying yes and not sitting still, and. Working hard and being happy, and I don't know, it's, uh, it feels effortless to us.
Um, and it's, I don't know, it doesn't feel like work. It just, it just feels like that's how it's supposed to be. So I, yeah, I, as I said in the beginning, I didn't date anybody for eight years before I dated, uh, Tomas or before we started dating. Um, and I think that it just sort of felt natural that that's the way that we ended up together and that this is the direction our lives have taken us.
And we're happy to be that couple for our friends, that if they need advice or they need that little push, um, for one thing or another, whether it's business or relationship related, that we can be those, those people for them. And. I think our friends joke because we very much feel like we haven't even grown up yet, that we're still kids and you know, we live this very free life.
But then the other part of it is that our friends come to us when they want us to teach them how to be an adult. Whether it's like
mm-hmm
car or tax or business related or you know, I mean God, you name it, um, preparing for this or that. Um, we just kind of are naturally that resource for people in a lot of ways.
Mm-hmm. So a spin on my regular question, uh, where do you put yourselves in the power couples scale? If zero is an average everyday couple and 10 is this superpower couple, where would you score yourself?
Yourself? I honestly wanna get a little philosophical, 'cause I've been thinking about this. I'm like, what makes a power couple a power?
Like what are the criteria? I really don't, I mean, I, I think we all kind of know, but no, I Has anyone given like a great definition? Um, no. I mean, I'll give you a number. It's the, me
defining it for them.
Yeah. What, what does it mean to you?
Um, well the, I nerd out about power couples because I, I am a romantic and I think it's really romantic to, to be able to create things together.
'cause my love language is creating things, right? It's the collaboration. So to be able to have that romantic relationship and to have a create together relationship and put them together and have them be successful where you're creating together and using each other's strengths, um, to, to be, to do that and to create something new together.
It's, I guess it's like having, it's having kids that the rest of the world gets to use and experience, right? Because that's what businesses usually feel like, at least to me. So a power couple is, is like. Two people who, when they come together, get to do the design together, get to create things together, and their relationship is so seamless through them because of how they are together.
Someone recently said that it's like having the keys to the Lamborghini. It's like mm-hmm. You have keys to the best car, like go drive it. Um, like, don't waste that opportunity. So, yeah, I don't know. If I were to put it on a scale, I'd give it a 10. I do. I don't know. Yeah, I just, there's, it just works.
There's always room for improvement of course. But it's just, you know, we're happy. Our families support us. They're happy that we're together. They understand it. Our friends get it. We're personally developing, like what we wanna do, we're developing together. Um. We love a good life.
Yeah. Yeah. I agree on that.
What you described. I would rank us very high and with the same, like staying humble, like do we have things to work on? Of course. Um, but yeah, in that sense, yeah. I'll give it a 10. I'm usually more conservative in points. It's the belt and grading
system. He's like, well, six is passing and it doesn't really matter if you get anything higher.
Yeah. I. I think about my grandma a lot and you know, she's someone who's rounded the corner on her life at 93. But you know, she's still doing stuff. She's still, she bought a new brand new 2021 Subaru this year. She has, um, you know, she has a dog and she's going out and she's still at the gym and living her life.
She's vaccinated now. She's got this whole new, uh, perspective on life. But, you know, if she doesn't wake up tomorrow, she knows she lives a, lived a fulfilled life. It doesn't mean that she's not looking forward to something. She hasn't seen our new house. She wants to come here. There's things that she looks forward to, but, you know, she's happy, she's very comfortable in her, in her skin and, uh, what she's accomplished and been able to do.
And, um, we have a lot more to accomplish and see and do. But, uh, I think the sentiment is similar. The same.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I am so thankful that you guys are a yes to me and to powerful ladies, and that you're a part of my network of awesome humans individually and together for everybody who is now also in love with the two of you, how can they follow you, support you, find you reach out to you?
Well, there's a teak, which is going to be teak app.com and teak app on all the socials.
Yep.
And then Clawson is Clawson, C-L-A-W-S-U-N design.com. But I'm sure you'll put it in the show notes.
Yeah, I will. Yes. Um, Instagram, Chelsea Levine, Twitter, Chelsea Levine six. I don't know who got that handle, but it wasn't me.
Um, and then all things cine cine.co or at cine Co is all our, our social channels. But um, yeah, we're trying to live that teak life and um, be more, I'm definitely trying to be more, uh. Sociable and approachable on social media. So yeah, definitely. Uh,
I'm, I'm not, I have my social stuff, Kara, it probably took me a year to approve your friend or or follow a request on Instagram, so it's not very relevant.
That's okay. But people can find me through Chelsea is probably the best answer to that question.
Yeah. Perfect. No, this is the year of being approachable for me. I've decided whether with all business things, uh, with some of the things we're doing for Cine, you know, just trying to share the knowledge. I just want people to feel comfortable reaching out and asking and talking.
I love that. Well, I think everyone who knows you guys feels that way anyway. And now strangers get to feel that and have that experience too. But I'm so excited that what you guys have coming up, I'm very excited to put into action myself. And yeah, just thank you for spending your Sundays with me and go enjoy your ice cream.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us.
Thank you for listening to today's episode. All the links to connect with Tomas and Chelsea are in our show notes@thepowerladies.com slash podcast. There you can also leave comments and ask questions about this episode. Want more powerful ladies, come join us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, where you can also find some free downloads to start being powerful today.
Subscribe to this podcast and help us connect with more listeners like you by leaving us a five star rating and review. Want to connect with me, visit kara duffy.com and book your free consultation appointment today. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope we're taking on being powerful in your life.
Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Instagram: @clawsundesign, @teeqapp
Twitter: @clawsundesign, @teeqapp
Website: clawsundesign.com, teeqapp.com
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Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
