Elizabeth McGarry:
- Website: mcgarrynsons.com
- Instagram: @mcgarrynsons
- Email: elizabeth@mcgarrynsons.com
Devon Blow:
- Website: devthepineapple.com
- Instagram: @devthepineapple
- Email: devon@whatsgoodhomegirl.com
Jess Goldsmith:
- Website: chickofalltrade.com
- Instagram: @chickofalltrade
- Email: thechickofalltrade@gmail.com
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Welcome to the Women of Type x Powerful Ladies event
02:15 The myth of the starving artist
05:40 Building a sustainable creative career
09:10 Panelist introductions: Devon Blow, Jess Goldsmith, Elizabeth McGarry
12:25 Balancing artistry and business strategy
16:00 Overcoming creative career challenges
20:10 How personal style fuels professional success
25:35 Making money while staying true to your art
30:50 Lessons from fashion, design, and art direction
36:15 Collaboration over competition in the creative world
42:00 Staying inspired and avoiding burnout
48:20 Marketing yourself as a creative entrepreneur
54:15 Redefining success in creative industries
01:00:30 Final advice for aspiring creative professionals
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy. One of our missions at Powerful Ladies is to bring powerful conversations to the world. On November 19th, 2021, we co -hosted a special live event with women of type. How to be creative, successful and fabulous. This event included three amazing female panelists, Devin Blow, Jez Goldsmith and Elizabeth McGarry.
All of whom have successful businesses doing what they love as creatives. Fashion design, graphic design, art directing and more. The purpose of this conversation is to show everyone that the starving artist trope is a myth. You can do what you love and be fabulously successful. Learn more at www .plastics -car .com Being a business and being an entrepreneur does not mean having to be boring.
In fact, being creative is a requirement. Links to handles and websites to connect with all of our amazing panelists can be found in our show notes at thepowerfulladies .com forward slash podcast. There you can also ask questions and leave comments about this episode. I can't wait to hear what your favorite takeaways are from this special event episode.
Again, thank you guys for being here. I am very excited for you to be part of this conversation and hear from these three amazing women who will be here today. Um, I will let each of them introduce themselves as we go around, but, um, the main thing to know about these women is that they are, they are creative.
They're entrepreneurs. They are kicking ass, um, and they have figured out ways to build lives around their passions and what they love doing in addition to making an impact in communities that really matter to them. And I think whether you lead a creative, uh, business or not, um, all of us who tend to be attracted to powerful ladies things or women of type things, like we're looking for, um, how we can make the impact that we want to for the people in the communities that we care about.
So without further ado, I'm going to open it up first to Jess Goldsmith, who is co -host for today. And she's the founder of Chickaball Trade and Women of Type, who is one of our partners today in this special event. So I will stop screen sharing and Jess, give it to you.
Hi everyone. Firstly, I'm... So humbled and excited that everyone's here.
Um, yeah, I'm Jess. Hi, art director, illustrator, graphic designer, lettering artist. Um, I've been freelancing, I think for like the last four years, something like that. Not entirely sure. And it's been a really, uh, challenging journey to get from like my point A's to my point B's, but I'm really excited to share all of my advice.
um and my mistakes and all of that with all you so that you don't have to make the same mistakes that i did awesome
thank you jess and then uh we are waiting to get devon into the room so she'll be joining us soon hopefully um but without um further ado i'd love you guys to meet elizabeth mcgarry um You may have met her on the two podcast episodes. She's been on on the powerful ladies podcast. She was our first podcast episode ever.
And then she and her husband joined for our power couples, uh, session this year. Uh, so Elizabeth, please tell everybody who you are, what you have to and why you're excited to be here today. Um,
I'll say Juliana Gambrell's got me really excited. I really appreciate the love over there. Um, I'm Elizabeth McGarry.
I am, uh, I live and run my business in Boston with my husband, Mark. Um, we've got two boys, a very thick cat, a new snake, and a lizard. Um, but I'm also a mom too. Um, yeah, I've been, I've worked my way up in the industry from a designer to creative director, um, in sportswear, fashion, and streetwear, and I've been doing that for the last 20 years, um, working with a lot of the big iconic brands, and, um, in the last 10 years really helping to launch, uh, new brands, hopefully the future iconic brands.
So, um, yeah, I'm really excited to be here because I definitely remember. At some point in my life, subscribing to the starving artist myth and, um, found myself recently telling my 18 -year -old son who just started art school how that is such a cliché thing to say, and it's so outdated, and he better get that out of his head right now, so, um, I was really stoked when Kara reached out about this conversation and just thank you for, um, opening the dialogue.
So yeah, happy to be here and share all the failures because there's many of them to
go along with the successes for sure. Thank you so much. Um, and I'm also very excited to introduce to all of you, Devin Blow. Devin, please introduce yourself, where you are in the world, and what everyone might know you as, at least in your social media presence, and please tell us about all your companies.
Hi
everyone, my name is Devin Blow. I'm from Los Angeles, California. Um, I'm an illustrator, graphic designer, art director. Thank you so much for having me here. Um, my social media people know me as I think is dev the pineapple and I also own a creative brand called, um, what's good home girl and it's um, apparel and just selling my art prints.
I was inspired by, um, black and brown culture in L. A. And, um, how it can kind of make it mainstream for everyone. You know, that style. hoop earrings and things like that and so that's what basically what's good homegirl is all about. Um, yeah, that's basically it. I'm a social justice artist as well too, so a lot of my content.
Uh, is around social justice.
I think it's a perfect segue, actually, because one of the things that I love about our three panelists today is that you all do work for communities and causes that matter to you. So since Devin, you're just talking about that, maybe just share a little bit more about what it means to mix your businesses and your creativity and your passions with social justice for you.
Um,
for me, it, it almost fills. Like, um, it's just such a huge part of who I am. Um, I'm a member of multiple marginalized communities. I have, um, I have autism. Um, so I'm neurodivergent and, um, and then being a black woman. Um, It kind of just ties into everything. You kind of have all those aspects thrown at you.
And, um, I can't navigate the world without that being a part of who I am. So, um, it's just a part of the work I do. And, um, it's also something I'm just passionate about. Um, if I can lend a creative voice to make things a little bit more digestible for people. make people want to pay attention. Um, then that that's, you know, that's what I'm gonna do.
How
does that tie into like what what you're selling or offering or creating?
Um, you know, it really just kind of, I feel like I kind of fell into it. Um, I started really just kind of wanting to say things and, um, not really knowing how to address it and not really wanting to, um, I wanted to make it appealing and digestible for people, so I really started with anti -racism, um, kind of work and, uh, just creating things that, um, I thought people would look at and say, Oh, this is like appealing to look at, but also there's like a message behind it and not feel like attacked by it.
Um, and that was really. That was really the basis of it and kind of how I navigated and in general, and it's kind of taken a life of its own. It kind of blew up more than I thought it than I expected it to, which is nice.
And Jess, you have tied some of your really important causes directly into clients that you have.
So I'm going to give you an opportunity to brag about your current favorite client. And please tell everybody, you know, how that whole thing happens and came about and why they really do check all the boxes for being your favorite client.
Yeah. So, um, I just finished a pretty big campaign with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, and they basically became the favorite client that I've worked with in the last two years or so.
Um, I, so, I sort of creative directed it, which was the first time that I had that opportunity, where they were like, this is what we want, run with it. Um, it was a big lettering piece, but that was like segmented into just like, pretty much everything digital print experiential so it was like seeing my work larger than life um i got to have my work presented at the hollywood bowl like a little less than a month ago which was just crazy to see i i kind of like don't actually believe that it happened maybe it was like a dream or something i don't know but um i think they found me through instagram and they asked me like hey would you be interested in working with us and like immediate yes Yes.
I was like, this is perfect. Um, one of the, the core things that I care about so much is advocating for mental health and for people to be able to talk freely about like how they feel and what they're dealing with and what they're struggling with because like I've been in the position where like I felt completely alone and I, I have depression, I have anxiety, I have ADHD.
So like. Being able to talk about it and realize like, Oh, this is actually like, I'm not the only person in the world that feels this way was really important. And I'm sure a lot of you here are freelancers. Um, I think we tend to feel very lonely because we don't have. regular jobs. We're, we're doing our own thing and we're kind of all over the place sometimes.
So finding an organization that wanted to work with me on something that I care about so much was so important and it was so fun and they gave me the creative freedom and it was like just this huge amazing thing that I did, um, for something that means so much to me. Um, yeah, it was just, Yeah, phenomenal.
Awesome. Thank you. And Elizabeth, I know that you also care so much. You're one of the biggest hearts. Um, how is it that you tie in your skills, your knowledge and what you're doing on a day to day basis to give back and make an impact? Yeah,
um, it's been, it's been an interesting trip, you know, I think the last, um, handful of years in particular, I've found myself naturally in a position to say no to things that I don't feel are aligned to my values, and that feels really powerful, um, and it's been, it's been a really great experience. Great because it's been influential enough to the point where some people like they just really want to work with you and they're, they've got these murmurings of these efforts that they're thinking about maybe getting off the ground at some point, you know, and they're kind of like one foot in, maybe they don't have the resources.
And so I've been able to channel a lot of those projects towards that. Okay, well, you're talking about sustainability, like, how do we actually, how do we actually impact that and do that the right way? Okay. Um, so I think the biggest efforts in the last couple years have been around, um, uh, diversity and and body body diversity in particular and sizing and how we how we, um, design for women in particular and, um, and then responsibly making.
More things in the world because I think we all know we just don't really need more things if we're gonna make them they better be very thoughtfully and respectfully made. So that's been a big one and then I think in the last maybe five years the biggest thing. Kind of dream campaign that I got to work on was the worth the fight campaign for, um, the emerging footwear brand York athletic and, um, you know, everyone from Ali Raisman as a sexual assault survivor and gold medalist to, um, some of our best friends that are recovering drug and alcoholic and, um, You know, we got to basically just let people share their stories, what they fight for, destigmatizing a lot of these things that we're talking about around depression and anxiety and, um, and, um, abuse and cancer and, and all of those things.
So, you know, I think, I think more and more and more we as creatives get to, um, to shape that. Um, we have a lot more power and control than I think we, than we once had. And so being able to shift, you know, the projects we work on and the brands that we work with to do meaningful work is pretty cool.
Well, now that I've set you, the three of you up to be like total powerful bad -asses, I also know that that's not where we all started from.
So how did you guys, you know, first start your careers, your creative careers and. And I'll also love you to share in this like where was the turning point when you realized that this could become you could break that mold of the starving artist kind of trope and Devon, I'd love to start with you.
Um, well, for me, art and design, I just always kind of been something I did secretly.
Um, it was something I did to kind of navigate my mental health. Um, and I worked at a. Art company, but I wasn't doing art for them. Um, uh, so I would see big artists come through our office like Shepard Fairey. Was always there. And just a lot of terror. McPherson was always there. So a lot of really amazing artists would always come through and, and that kind of started to get me to think like, Hmm, maybe I could do this like as a, as a profession.
And, um, I started taking courses, uh, to learn the Adobe suite, um, to learn as much digital programs as I could still learning. And, um, I just kind of started working towards it. I was selling my products at pop -ups and trying to, um, get to meet different people. Uh, and it just kind of, it, it, I think it just kind of took on a life of its own.
I was, I feel really blessed, um, to be able to do it full time now. Because I had, I was really, really, really every single day I was going into my job, it became something that my job became something that I was miserable at and I wanted to work for myself. And every day I would go in and say, I want to work for myself.
This is the goal. Like, I'm going to work for myself and the pandemic, I was doing it part time and then the pandemic threw me into a full time and it's been. It's been perfect. It was like a, it was one of those things where it was like, okay, well, I need to have this amount of money to start doing a creative career full time.
And then it was like, okay, well, I can do part time remote work and still do creative full time. And then the pandemic was like, you're fired. And so, so it's like, okay, well, now I have to dive in full time to creative work. And it just kind of worked out. So I feel very blessed. grateful that, um, that's how that evolved into that.
Sometimes the universe gives us that kick in the ass to just jump all in. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Jess, what about you? Um, so my story
is a little bit similar to Devon's where like, I've always, okay. So I've always been a creative person. I've always been an artist. Um, really like my entire life. And I also always wanted to make this my career and make this my life.
And I, I slowly, I started like with Canva and I was calling myself a creative director. I don't like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but that's, that's not it. But anyway, so like I started with Canva just playing around, eventually got into Adobe. Um, I use Procreate a lot. Devin, I think you do too. I feel like I've seen videos of you creating with Procreate.
Um. So it started out for fun and then I, I got hired to do like a lot of social media stuff. From there, I was eventually hired by a children's foundation and I was like permalancing. So it was like my full -time job, but it wasn't like a, like a full contract. Um, and like Devin, I was let go and I was like, fuck, what am I going to do?
And I tried to get jobs at a bunch of places and I just wasn't getting hired. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it. Like, I'm just going to do this myself. And it was an uphill battle getting like to where I am now. Um, but yeah, it. It was kind of like kismet because I don't know if I was like brave enough to have quit a job and just jump into it, but I was brave enough to stay fired, basically, you know, like it.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's what it was. I needed to get let go in order to. reach my full potential and
i'm putting a request in right now for you to make me a graphic that we can use for posters like be brave enough to stay fired yes that needs to be put everywhere yes um elizabeth what about you um
yeah i mean i feel like you know i went to i went to design school when designers when they're when it just wasn't really a thing you were like you were a designer in new york city Or Paris, but, and, or I guess what I learned, what I was set to be, you know, going to design school is like, you know, the average, the average graduate, or first of all, it was like half of you will actually graduate.
And then the other half of you will top out at $28 ,000 a year or something like that, you know? And I was like, cool, sign me up. Like, I love this. I want to be this. And it didn't really faze me. And I don't think I was, Also yet identifying with like starving artist mentality. It wasn't really that it just felt like this is what I'm supposed to do.
Um, and and in true fashion, you know, I think my my I had an amazing opportunity to go to Belgium. I will say that was probably the most influential thing after school to go do like a proper apprenticeship. I live with a woman. I've worked with her. I just like shadowed her for, um, about a year and a half on and off.
And, um, I got to work with people who were living their dream and, and, and somehow didn't seem to have sold out, but we're thriving. And so I guess I could say from a really early point in my career, I had that as a, as a knowledge base, like it's possible. Um, but I did go, you know, come back to Portland, Oregon, go home, got a job.
I think I was making $18 ,000 a year. I didn't negotiate at all. Like I didn't, I did all, I did all of it wrong for sure. Got on like the bottom end of the scale. Um, and it really, I think I would have maybe been on that track and it wasn't until I, um, I fell into the role of motherhood earlier than, um, I had planned from like family planning perspective.
And, um, it just kind of like, And it was suddenly like, I'm not just responsible for myself. I can't just like, have a roommate and a boyfriend and call it good. So I have to take care of someone now. And I, I just like hustled my ass off and got a job at Nike and like overnight doubled my salary, you know, and, and then it was, and it suddenly felt like, oh, I can do this.
I can like do this thing. I love to do. I'm valued to do it. And, um, it was just sort of like, On the roller coaster from there, you know what
I'm going to stick with you for a second because you had a successful corporate career in design and then you decided to make the pivot to to go into creating your own business and being an entrepreneur.
What caused that pivot? And so. Did you find yourself going back into the starving artist mentality when you started that? Because we just had um, you know, we did a 2 .0 level up meeting with one of my clients and we were joking like the first clients you say yes to or anyone that says yes back and then we start layering back in like the wait a second like we are worth so much more.
So what was your transition like and how is it different than to now like for anyone who's thinking about making that leap like? Explain that process for you.
Yeah. Um, so again, motherhood, um, baby, baby to, you know, seven years later, um, I, I, I quit my job, my corporate job to go to another corporate job while I was on my non compete, which I was only making half my salary.
Which is, is ridiculous. It should be illegal and totally outlawed, but, um, in Massachusetts, it's still a thing. Um, thankfully, you know, I have a partner and we, it felt, it felt unfathomable, but it's suddenly like we made it work. So maybe, maybe my bar was dropped a little already. It was like, okay, I just spent six months, um, making half my salary that, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm.
That I've been used to making and I've got a baby on the way and it suddenly felt like this huge trade -off. It was like, well, I can, I have a job where I can freelance like designers are hireable freelancers. So, um, maybe I can make at least half my salary freelancing, you know, so I set the bar pretty low and pretty quickly.
I was able to achieve that. Um, and pretty quickly things grew, you know, and so I think I, I will say I had a bit of that safety net, having that partnership and having that like forced. Um, six months sit out that sort of paved the way for me and showed me and actually, you know, you, you save a lot of money when you, when you have available time, you know, I was like cooking more meals and, um, spending a lot less and all of that.
But yeah, it was like a safe baby step way into it. Um, But you get that taste for entrepreneurship pretty quickly. I think when you're, when you're forced into it and you're like, okay, I think the biggest aha moment for me was as soon as I started freelancing and I got out of the corporate design ecosystem.
I was, uh, very quickly reminded of like why I got into this and how important it is to create. Actually creative spaces and, um, I got really inspired at the idea of creating that for other people. And I was like, I was on this tear. I was like, no, no corporations should have creative teams like everything should be outsourced and let like let people wake up when they need to wake up and work when they need to work and turn the music up as loud as they want.
And, you know, all of that stuff. So. Um, that kind of got me fired up and pretty quickly I was just like collecting people from my past that I loved and, and collaborating on things.
Well, you know, part of the, the starving artist mentality. is passed on culturally, right? Like artists don't make money. Uh, you heard it in design school even, right? Um, who wants to kind of take the first stab at the question of like, how much of a lie is that and how do you personally now know that as a complete lie?
Yes, Jess, go for it.
Um, I just love talking about how much of that it's a lie because like, look wherever you are right now, look to your left, look to your right, like Anything that exists and created was designed, and that's it, like, you know, I mean, okay, my background's a bad example, but like, Here, there's Frank's hot sauce on my table.
Like, somebody had to design the label. Somebody needed to do the branding. I mean, I have nail glue here. Somebody needed to do the branding and the label for this. So, like, oh, sorry, the lighting's weird. So, like, literally everything in this world that is visual is created through art, through design. And, uh, Those jobs can pay really well and as a freelancer, they can pay even better because you get to decide how much you charge.
And as you become better and more well known in your industry, you can start charging even more and more and more because people specifically want to work with you. When I started, you know, like we were saying, like, I would say yes to anything because I just, I just wanted to get my foot in the door. I just wanted to have work.
I just wanted to do something in the industry that I loved. And now I'm at a point, and I'm so grateful for it, that people are specifically seeking out me. They're like, yeah, we could hire any designer, we could hire any illustrator, but like we want you because we love your work, we love your style. We love how you do things and that is so exciting.
And because of that, you get to charge more. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's just, I was also brought up like, oh, you can't really make a living doing art. Um, I think probably all of us. Have heard that whether or not you're an artist, it's just something that like, you know, it's a universal truth. That's actually a lie.
So, uh, yeah, just go do art and make a ton of money. That's all I got to say.
Yeah, I'm sure everyone's heard the get a real job, right? Yeah. Oh,
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you doodle for a living. I'm like, okay, yeah, sure. Call it whatever you want,
whatever you want, you can call it that because this is what's happening.
Yeah, exactly. I saw you smiling, Devin. Um, what are your takes on this question?
I honestly, I thought I would have to have a product based business to be successful in a creative career. And so that's how I started. I wasn't really seeking out clients or freelancing, um, at all. And then, so once that started, I was like, Oh, yeah.
Once I realized I could do it, I started to really, it opened my eyes. I think my first really big client was Adidas. And, um, when they sent me a price, they sent me how much they were going to pay me, and I was like, oh my god. It was a significant amount of money. Oh, okay. And I told him, okay, yeah, that price works.
And they came back. They're like, actually, it's a little bit more and they gave me more than what they first quoted. And it was, it, it like, it was mind blowing to me that I was like, oh, I could live off of doing this, like just client work. And, um, I, I got so busy. After that, um, that it, my product based business kind of took a backseat to everything because you, you can really just make a full income off of client work.
Freelancing client work is, is really where the bread and butter is for me personally, um, is where the bread and butter is. And so, yeah, I mean, I pay all my bills. I'm not a bum. I, you know, So yeah, it's possible. It's definitely possible.
Yeah. And as the, as the person not being as paid as a creative in this room, I'm going to just give some people some numbers that I know as who's hired people who are creatives and who's helped other creatives land some of these roles.
Some of these big companies are spending 10, $20 ,000 per project per month. It's like, That's not an unreasonable number. So when I see graphic designers that are like, I charged $1 ,500 for a logo, I'm like, no, no. And why are you selling just the logo? Stop. Right. So, um, you know, I want people to hear real numbers of like what you should be looking to see things at, because one of the things that I work with clients all the time on is really looking at your value and your price and what that looks like.
Because there's a whole shift to happen and going from an hourly rate to a per project rate or retainer rate. Um, how have you guys experienced that? And I'm going to start with you, Elizabeth, because your business has been around for years now, and you're regularly doing kind of client based work. So how did it shift for you?
And kind of what was the push or aha moment to go to stop? Charging for your time.
Yeah,
that's a I'll say that that you questioning what you should charge never ends, right? And like the the goal post just constantly is is moving. Um, And usually that, that can be a good thing because that just means like you should be reassessing your, your, your rates and your prices all the time. And if my sister, who's an accountant and late recently, I was talking, I just felt like super slammed and like really tired and I just had too much going on.
And she said, it sounds like you need to raise rates. And she said, it's so matter of fact, and I was like, oh, yeah. And so I did and just, and like, no one said no. And that was, that was such a. A crucial reminder for me, I mean, and even now, like 10 years of running my business, I just needed that, that reminder.
Um, yeah, I mean, in the beginning you, you're gonna, you're gonna mess up like I overbid and lost projects. I underbid and kicked myself the whole time while doing it. And you just have to constantly check in with yourself. and kind of recalibrate and and also just just because it is that like a way right now that's not fulfilling you doesn't mean it will be that way forever like you have the power to change it and evolve it so um that's been a big one i don't know i feel like i'm really going to date myself but i just i just feel like i'm going to date myself I remember Linda Evangelista in like the 90s making some comment about how she doesn't get out of bed for less than $10 ,000 a day or something like that.
And, um, she just got totally blasted for that. And if that comment happened by anyone now in today's standards, they would just be like, you know, good for you. Um, good for you for knowing your worth and what, what's worth it. Um, so yeah, I think that. When creatives can be transparent with each other and just it's like that saying rising tides sail all ships like I share my rate with other creatives locally all the time because like this race to the bottom mentality for clients has just got to stop and like if you're really talented and the work is out there we all need to like elevate together so um so yeah I mean ten thousand twenty thousand thirty thousand dollars for a month's worth of work for a client, it is not astronomical.
You're doing good work and you're bringing your experience to the table and you're delivering, you know, useful, quality, thoughtful design. It's the way I look at it. It's like you design something one time. I've designed things that have been in rotation for like five years. I wish I was making, you know, I need a royalty based BA I think on some projects, right?
Cause When it breaks down, it's like it's, it's nothing really for them, especially a larger corporate company. And then, yeah, you've always got to look at the small guys and say, maybe it's worth it to like on board with a new brand that has a tiny budget or something.
Yeah,
it's always a trade, right? Oh, Devin, please go.
I just wanted to add to that because rate sharing, I think in our industry is so important, um, especially when it comes to discussions of equity. Um, we want to make sure that women are getting paid. Thank you. The fair amount as men. We want to make sure people of color are getting paid the same amount.
So, um, this I'm I'm glad there's a shift happening of like trying to gatekeep rates. It's like we need to share what these projects are paying. So we know what to charge having a group of people who are doing the same. In the same field as you, a group of friends or people you can connect with on social media, um, has been super valuable for me because I can go to them and ask them, Hey, did you do work with, you know, um, Google?
I haven't worked with Google, but that's like on my dream list. But anyway, just Google as an example, like you work with Google, like how much did they pay for you to do the Google doodle and they'll tell you and it's like, okay, well, now I know what to, you know, you know what to charge because the brands won't.
If they ask you for your rate, and you under... What they normally charge. They're not going to be like, Oh, actually, we pay this other artist $14 ,000 for this. So we'll pay you that. No, they're going to be like, Oh, you only think you're worth 5 ,000. Okay, you know, so just that whole community of like sharing our rates.
It doesn't take away from anyone. It's not a competition. It's it's like, it's sisterhood. I like to think it's you know, it's really teamwork. So yeah, that's just my little Yeah,
it goes in a line with like sharing, like, here's my new adobe tip and here's this right? Like, I don't know why we get so hung up about sharing like what we what we've charged for things or what we've been paid for things and we can't blame the Google, right?
Because they're just trying to, you know, keep their margins up just like every other businesses, right? So we have to empower ourselves with what that knowledge is. Another thing that I just want to share with the group, right, for people who are charging rates. We have to think also about who, who you're replacing to do that work because if they had an in -house graphic designer, they're making probably between, depending on their level, 60 and 85 a year.
And from a company perspective, if it times that by 1 .2, add 20 percent because you're having benefits and other things included in that. So if we, before we, if we add benefits, I'm going to do the math right now on my calculator and we divide it by 12, that's eight grand a month. So it's costing the company at least eight grand a month to have a graphic designer and if they're going to pay you and not be paying you all the benefits, like if you're doing retainer work for them and you're working for them as a permalancer.
That's a number I would be looking at as a benchmark. Right? Um, another tip I just, uh, figured out was if you want to convert hourly to salary, 80k equals $40 an hour. Just take out the zeros divide by two. So it's a quick math of how to kind of gauge where things are at. Because, you know, even from an employee perspective, you're either going to hire someone externally or internally.
And if externally is better flexibility and how to make it win -win for both parties, and often it's about math and freedom,
I'll add to that too. Because what I what I also how I've raised my rates with in situations like that is accounting for the lack of commitment. So it's not just the benefits. It's like.
Um, I have to hustle all the time for the next thing. Um, and so if you're only saying like this is for three months, it may be longer. It's like, well, I'm going to charge you more for a three month agreement than a six month or a 12 month agreement. And I think you have to kind of figure out what your threshold is for that, like, make sure you're padded for the, those, like, feast or famine periods, you know, um, of, of, uh, freelance world.
It's like, uh, selling your time for wholesale almost, because you want to hire me for one hour, like, okay, that's going to be, I don't know, like, 150, but if you want to hire me for 15 hours, I can go lower. I can go. 80 to 100, you know, because we're just getting more from it. Um, but I also wanted to add, um, sorry, this slide is crazy.
Um, I wanted to add on to talking about pricing and stuff because like, you know, I'm in some of these Facebook groups and somebody will say, Hey, I need a logo done. And someone's like, I, Oh, I do logos for $50 unlimited revisions. And I'm like, first of all, you're losing money. That's a thousand percent.
That's a crazy number. Crazy low and The lower other, like, like, you know, Elizabeth, like you said, like race to the bottom, you're just ruining it for everyone. If I'm out here undercutting everyone, then the name of the game is going to be, okay, who can get this job for the lowest amount, when it should really be who can get this job for the highest amount.
You know, you're not just underselling yourself, you're underselling the entire industry and other people and other women. That are just trying to live their life. So, yeah, I'm, I, I love being transparent about money. Um, I especially loved it when I had no money. But now that I'm making it, I like talking about it too.
Because I'm like, you know what? Like, I, I also, I think my first year freelancing, I think I made like 17 grand. For the whole year, I had savings. So like, you know, I was able to survive. But like, it wasn't, it wasn't easy. So like talking about how I got from there to here is just like, I don't know. I love it.
I love talking about it.
Well, I think another part that happens when somebody says, I'll do a logo for $50. We're missing the opportunity to explain the whole value of a logo and the possibility of what a logo is to the client. So I work with a lot of clients and building out like. Of your photographer.
Here's three pages of a list of what you can do with one image. Like, what did you guys do to educate your potential clients on the impact you're making for them and to break this cycle up, it's just a logo or it's just a, you know, a thing. Cause that just gets used so often in creative work for hire any,
any volunteers. Yeah,
I, I can speak on that. So it happened to me kind of recently. Oh, okay, so actually this happens a lot where clients will be like, oh, it's just a small edit. And it's like, okay, like, you might think I'm just moving something to the left, but if I move that thing to the left, I need to move everything around to make it work.
So, I mean, I don't get into technicalities with clients because typically they don't know, like, The lingo of the industry, but I explained to them like, Hey, you know, if I'm just moving something, I'm probably going to have to move everything else. So there's that. But then I had someone ask me like, Well, why is it this amount of money?
Is it only going to take, is it going to take you this many hours? And I was like, I don't, A, I, I base on value, not on time, and B, if I'm, why would I charge less to get it done quicker? Like, if, if you want this done in three days and I'm able to, good for me and good for you, but you're gonna have to pay me for that time to put it in, but like, It doesn't make sense at all for me to have to work faster in order to get paid less.
It's just, it doesn't make any sense. So, you know, I say it in nicer words, but kind of the main sentence is I price on value, not on time. And that usually resonates. Or it doesn't and but they don't say anything. So I mean, good either way.
Yeah, perfect. Devin, what about you? How have you taken on educating your clients so they really understand the full value of what you're giving them?
Um, I kind of do the same thing. Um, sometimes I price based on time. Um, but generally it's a made up time that isn't Always accurate because you just can't really gauge how long something's gonna take you and I don't, you know, something takes longer because I'm in a, you know, it having issues or and it's not the fault of the client.
You can't really gauge that. Um, I try to price based on how complex. I think something's gonna be how difficult the client might be. Um, and then I'll always what the, um, in use is if I think a client is gonna, um, I mean, that's actually, that's probably the biggest thing I've learned is in use. Um, if a client's gonna take something I create and then put it on something and resell it, then my price is going way, way, way up if they're just posting something on social, then it'll, you know, stay what it is.
But, um, even then you have to kind of see what the value is going to be for that because people will, people can be kind of sneaky. And I don't think it's intentional always, but I think they're going to always try to get the most bang for their buck without regards to you necessarily. So you just have to be really, really, really diligent and, um, contracts, good contracts, make sure you learn how to write a good contract.
That's also, and put kill fees in your contracts. I kind of went off on that. There, but yeah, I always put kills off
a good healthy for
those that don't know what's a kill fee. Devin a kill fee is if you sign a contract and you are about to start work or you've started part of the work and the client decides that they don't want it or they don't like what we have so far.
Any for any reason they want to cancel the project. It's tough to pay you a percent of what was owed or whatever is outlined in the contract. So I had one of those. I did work. They decided they didn't, um, they didn't have time to go with what I wanted. I still ended up making 50 percent of my fee for really doing nothing for doing sketches.
So that just like it protects you, protects your work so that people don't take advantage of it. Yeah,
we were having a big conversation in my Thrive membership about boundaries and how boundaries and policies are the same thing, because all the contracts are doing is protecting and honoring who you are and your creativity, right?
And the time you're committing, because to Elizabeth's point before, right? If somebody does only once a three month contract. You aren't blocking out more time for them, right? So if someone's asking you to take any of your time away, it's also a reason to push people to sign early, right? Like you got to go because I'm getting filled up.
So I love that. Um, I do want to leave plenty of time for Q and A. So I would love each of you to tell me what you're excited about as you're wrapping up this year, going into 2022 and where people can find and follow you. And then we'll open up Q and A. Um, Debra, let's start with you since you had the hot mic last.
Right
now I'm really excited for Black History Month. Like, Black History Month is my favorite time of the year, next to Christmas. Uh, so I'm hoping to get some good collaborations then. I love sharing Black History stories with my, um, with people who follow me. Um, I love when people don't know about something and I'm like, Oh yeah, you didn't know that?
So, it's always exciting for me, Black History Month. Um, so I'm looking forward to that and I have my fingers crossed I'll book a lot of work, uh, during that time. Thank you. And yeah, you guys can follow me on social media. My Instagram is devthepineapple. Um, and then my website is devthepineapple .com and basically perfect
elicit.
What about you? Um,
gosh, what am I excited for? I mean, we're going through a bit of a transition right now. Kara has been working with, um, with us and my husband on, um, kind of leveling up our, our business and our collaboration and how we're working with people. So there's a lot of cool stuff on the horizon.
I think, um, one of my most exciting projects right now is with, um, An emerging outdoor brand, Lakota Paxi. Um, I'm getting to work on some really cool special kind of offline projects with them. Um, That just, it's been a reminder of like how impactful your work can actually be, um, and an opportunity to collaborate and bring people in and make projects more, more rich.
And, um, so yeah, I'm super stoked on that, on that. Um, I am, A social media, um, introvert, I guess you could call it. I post something really good once in a while, so, um, keep you on your toes. Um, but follow me at Megarian Funds. It's my, my handle here on the Zoom screen, um, on Instagram. And, um, and email me and reach out if you're, if you're looking for, um, for brand and design and development work.
Um, Or if you're a freelancer and, you know, like I've built my business on collaborating with other freelancers. So, you know, stoked to be in touch with new people.
Perfect. Thank you. Jess, what about you? Um,
so from now, like through mid -January and probably like a little bit past, I'm, you know, Pretty booked with retainer clients.
So I'm really excited for the unknown. I'm excited just to see like what shows up and who wants to work with me or who I can get to work with me from like my dream client list. Um, so yeah, I'm very excited for the unknown and that's, that's all everything. Everything is, uh, you can find me and my work online at chickofalltrade .com.
Or on Instagram at Chick of all trade and women of type, um, at women of type on Instagram and women of type .com. And if you're looking for an illustrator, lettering artists, uh, graphic designer, you just want to hang out, hit me up.
Perfect. And for those of you who don't know who I am. I'm a business coach.
I run Powerful Ladies. We have a Thrive membership, which is all for female entrepreneurs. Uh, so you can check that out at karadeffy .com and thepowerfulladies .com. Come hang out. These are the conversations we're having every week. Uh, so it's really fun and I tend to collect creative entrepreneurs, which is why I love this group.
Um, when I was working in footwear and apparel, I, I took on the role of like protecting them because I was doing the business stuff and I spoke creative, so it's I enjoy getting to do that for other people still. So I would love now to open it up to everyone's questions because I have a bunch more questions.
I'm sure the audience does. So, um, who wants to jump in and kind of ask the first question? Yes, Donna.
Hello.
Um, I have a question. So I am a writer and I'm writing a novel and a short story now, but so I don't have like a business. I want to launch, but I have to keep my day job. And so my question is tactics for like persevering through your job. And do you, the one thing I struggle with is I feel like I want to tell my boss that, like, my job is not.
My dream and what I want to be doing with my life. Um, but I feel like that could be problematic. So what experience do you guys have with, like, before you're able to make that transition into being full time creatives, like managing that tension? No,
Devin,
you
go ahead. Um, I shared with my boss before I left, um, that, you know, they knew about my pursuits and in kind of dreams and I feel like they resented me for it a little bit. Um, that was just the vibe I got. So sometimes it's cool to move like in silence in that with that regards. I think it depends on the environment and the person, obviously, but.
Um, you know, you don't owe them anything. You don't owe them an explanation. And, uh, and then when you're able to leave, you don't owe them anything then either. So, you know, I don't think you have to necessarily tell them. Um, for, for persevering, I think it's just keeping your eyes on the prize. Write down what you want out of life.
Tell yourself it every single day. I was telling myself it every single day. Every single day I was saying, I want to be doing this. This is it. I'm not going to stay here. I'm going to be doing this and it happened. So I believe in manifestation and, um, putting in work. And I think as long as you keep persevering, even though it's hard, especially if you're at a job that you'd like, don't necessarily like, um, but you know, just, just keep pushing and just keep thinking in your head that, you know, this isn't going to be my end destination.
This isn't my, you know, This isn't where I end up forever.
Yeah, I love the part of like telling that Devin that you said like telling yourself and something that I literally did Is like it's telling myself. I recorded myself on my phone telling myself like you're gonna make this amount of money You're, you're gonna do whatever. I listed like my dreams and the things that I wanted and why I wanted it.
It was like probably a three minute recording and I literally listened to it on repeat like when I would walk to the train to go to my job that I hated every day. And I didn't. Believe myself, but eventually I guess it worked, um, you know, you, I mean, you hear something enough times and you start to believe it and then you start to become it.
So, I mean, persevering is really just that it's just pushing through for the things that you, you know, that you don't necessarily love or like to do. And I think like Devin said, it depends on the environment with your boss. Like if they, if they're the, and that's for you to gauge if they're the type of person that would receive that well.
Go for it. Um, obviously, I don't know them. But, um, yeah, it's just really reminding yourself why you're doing what you do. And it could be as simple as like, I just want to work from home on the couch because I just like it. I think I told Kara that the other day. I'm like, I just want to hang out on my couch all day and like, I'm working while I'm doing it, but that's what I'm doing.
And like, for me, that's, that's what I'm doing. So big. Um, even like the tiniest thing or the tiniest reason and like, like really physically remind yourself, write it down and have it on your fridge. I have a goal to be in Forbes. I have on my fridge. It says forks and every time I go to eat a snack, I'm like, Oh yeah, that's what I want.
Yeah, I'll, I'll add that to that too. Cause I was just doing some research on this. Um, August and September were record -breaking months for Americans quitting their jobs, right? So it was like almost 9 million Americans quit their jobs. And that's with like a massive shortage of workers out there for jobs.
So employees actually have more of an upper hand right now than then we did even just six months ago and six years ago. So I don't know the culture of your of your company. Um, but I will say that. Any business leader right now is very aware. This is a very real threat for them. And there's this movement towards, and I just learned this term, but it's been around for a few decades, job crafting.
So, you know, people were forced into different work environments during the pandemic, and some people have returned back to work full time. And it's like, it's like same old, same old. Nothing's changed. And that's what we need to do. It's just a very outdated model. So now's the time to, if you can, if you know, this is just like a baby step for you and it needs to support you, you know, there may be hope, like there may be a way for you to craft the job that you're in right now to find more freedom and flexibility and, and free time for you to work on this other thing.
You don't have to say like, Like, yo, can I, can we change everything up so that I can leave in a year, um, after I baked this book, but you know, you can just say like, look, I've, I've really had to reassess and reprioritize my time and my life and, and I want to stay here. Can, what if we did this and like, try to, try to create the four day work week and try to, or, you know, six hour work day or something, if you can.
Um, you might be surprised at how many leaders right now would be open to that. Um, and then hustle. Yeah, get that project off the ground with like, use that that newfound free time. Um, and apply yourself and then yeah you'll be rocking before you know it thank you and
that's a great book elizabeth i put it in the chat right anyone who's looking to contain their time i think how do we contain the stuff we don't want so it's smaller and smaller so we have more freedom on in the other spaces and that book is really great to start listening to because they have so many tactics to take control back of your time and freedom who has the next question You can put it in the chat.
I can read out loud or you can jump on and unmute yourself and ask.
Can I ask Devin a question
actually? Yes. Um, so you mentioned about being, um, neurodivergent and, um, that's a new term for me, but it makes perfect sense. It shouldn't be a new term at my son's, um, ADHD as well, but, um, how can we as entrepreneurs and leaders create, um, spaces for, um, Other creatives to thrive who are neurodivergent, like what is that environment or structure or, um, you know, like there's so much talk right now around diversity and inclusion, but it seems to be specific around, you know, certain, um, racial terms.
So, like, what about this other just processing and how, how to work? Do you have any tips for. Myself as well as everyone else. Yeah.
Um, some of the things I've run into that have been challenging for me, um um, uh, lots of Zoom meetings. I think just with the pandemic, um, I've gotten really bad Zoom fatigue.
I think turning, allowing people to turn their cameras off, Um, in without judgment is a huge one. Um, uh, that's a big one for me. Um, also, um, contracts that are, are um, when you're the language in contracts, um, I have another friend, uh, who's an illustrator. She has a learning disability. She was expressing to me how much of a struggle it was when clients sent like really long, wordy contracts that, um, you don't really know what you're getting into.
Um, so I think being more accommodating with your contracts in the language you use, making them, um, making them, um, as accessible for people as, as, as possible. Um, yeah, I think asking people also helps. I don't mind when people ask me, how can I accommodate you? What, you know, makes you more comfortable?
What time, you know, just being understanding of all those little things. Helps a ton and timelines. Also, if you have a project and you know, it's gonna you want it on a rush or you, you know, you know, it's gonna come up. Don't wait till late to try to reach out to someone to do it. Um, but for me personally, also just want to add, um, I've had to learn how to just manage my neurodiversity.
I have, um, I have autism. Um, bipolar disorder and ADHD. So I've had to learn how to just navigate it the best to my ability. Um, working for myself has helped tremendously because I don't have the answer to anyone. I can answer to myself. I turned down jobs that I don't think will align. I turned down work that I think the people will be stressful.
Um, you know, it's that freedom to be able to do that is is huge when you're dealing with mental health. Um, so yeah, that's basically me. And, and, you know, realize that people can do things like I, I can still, I'm still fully, you know, able to do anything. So. I
feel the same way, Devin. Navigating through depression, anxiety, and ADHD as well.
Like, working for myself is a game -changer. I was... I was so depressed working for a job that I didn't like a person in charge that I didn't like. Yeah, just wanted just felt like adding that one
thing that nobody's asked that I would love to know is, um, how did you guys start? How do you reach out for work? Like, so often we have to start that process, like, how do you guys do that?
Well, actually, you, Cara, and, um, Natasha, who's in here somewhere, have, have helped me a lot with that, with my pitch, but, um, essentially, it's just approaching it in a really confident way, and it's like, This is who I am.
This is what I do. This is why I want to work with you and this is why you should want to work with me and you know, the wording changes depending on who you're talking to and, and what the brand is and stuff like that. But that's kind of, you know, the format. Um, I haven't been great about like my follow ups, but that's also something that's pretty important.
Like you think about the life of any human being, especially people in like higher up positions, they tend to be really busy. Thank you. Sometimes they'll see your email and they'll intend to answer, but not so just like following up and sometimes you'll get it. Sometimes you won't. I don't know. I'm like on my third email with this publication that I, uh, want to work with and like maybe they'll get back to me.
I don't know if not. It's okay. Move on. But yeah, just, I don't know. Email. Also don't, I don't like the Instagram DM. If, if you want to do business with somebody and you want to be super professional, I mean, I guess people have opinions on it. Okay. My personal opinion is go straight to the email if you really want to work with someone.
And adding to that question for the group, Mikkel asked, do you find people, do more people find you or are you doing more reach out to other people? Where are you guys at? Are you having more people call you or are you having to do more, more selling yourself?
The shift is very recent to me not having to like every time I'm like in a bit of like a second of a lull and I'm like, oh, I have to start reaching out and then like, you know, and then it just starts coming in.
But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't always like that. It's taken time to get there.
Most of my most of my work. Um, people are reaching out to me.
Yeah, same. Um, I've
been fortunate in that way. I think I, I'm, I'll probably come to you, Kara, when I need to figure out how to
pitch
myself better because, um, where I, where I struggle and like, it's helpful to have a, it's helpful to have a business partner if you can, if you're creative.
A creative entrepreneur is like more challenging, I think, than most people realize you it's it's literally different parts of your brain firing and I've had to figure out how to compartmentalize. my time and like carve out time for creative thinking and doing and, and for like being organized, following up with clients, being proactive, like all that operational stuff does not come as naturally for me.
And, um, I definitely like lost projects because people reached out and I just like, couldn't follow up fast enough or be thorough enough. So, um, like as you embark on this, I would definitely figure out your system. Like, literally, maybe it's two hats and you have one that you put on for one part of the day and one that you put on for the next.
Can I add to that? Oh, yes, go ahead. I'm Lakeisha. Um, I actually signed up for this because I am wholeheartedly, like, thinking about being an entrepreneur. Or rather acting on it more so this year. Um, this is really helping me because making products, um, I started making oils this past Mother's Day and, um, something was calling me like taking the holistic route, um, making oils, deodorant, soap, something in that area.
So I started with the oil. That was pretty successful because I really wanted to, um, make something that women love. So I thought to tell it to moms and that did that did well. Um, and I stumbled upon doing a homemade deodorant, um, this past July. And when I tell you, um, It worked for my husband. He just was just like, I've tried so many deodorants and nothing's ever been this good and I don't have to reapply.
I'm just like, if this works for you, you know, so he's trying to get me to start my own business with this. And I know that it will succeed. So, but I have four Children when I made the oil. Um, it is kind of like a trauma revisited situation because I was in the living room trying to, um, concoct this oil in the bottle and the kids are running around and I'm trying to make a little corner for my work and they're touching things.
And so I feel like I'm at a standstill. Um, and you guys are talking a lot about time and service and I charged more for the oils because it took me more time essentially to make these things. So art is art. I mean, you can pay something and it's creative. You can make clothes. It's creative. You can make products and that's creative, you know, using your brain cells to create.
So, um, That's where I am. It's so hard because I have a supportive husband who wants me to do this stuff, but I'm the one who's doing everything. I have to make the corner. I have to order things. I have to manage the money. So I'm really, really overwhelmed. And this is, I'm actually in route to fancy family because I don't have a car.
I'm taking Greyhound. So this is my motivation to. Be an entrepreneur to make my own hours because I can't do this if I'm working for someone, you know, I have to beg for time off and I just really despise that. Um, so the freedom to travel and not ask for time. This is what's really driving me to be my own business person, you know, um.
And the motivation right now is to get my car before the winter really kicks in in New York. Um, and just my husband really pushing me has been helpful. So I don't know. I guess my question is, like, what have you guys done if you're working from home and you have a family? Um, the best the best way to do that?
Like, how? Because I have a four year old, a set of twins, seven and my nine year old son. And, um, let's just say he's not too helpful in the, um, what do you call it, managing the kids area. I'm like, you're older, you should know, help mommy. He helps, I'm sorry, he helps, but he could be a handful too. Um, so, I, I don't know, I don't even know what to ask, but that's where I am.
Great
question. Um, Elizabeth, I know that you've had to work with all sorts of kids running around yours and others. So, yeah, um,
you got to get creative. Also, I think on on child care, you know, like I started, I started Hungarian sons when, um, when I had a newborn and a 7 year old. And I was at the name literally came from a joke of like, welcome to the Gary and sons. Like, I may have a baby on my breast. And like, while we're talking through designer view, you know, it was pretty much from my kitchen table and a lot of midnight hours, um, like putting the family to bed.
I feel like this is a whole other panel conversation, probably Kara, because The stress and the pressure. I mean, we all have it. We all have lives outside of being creative, like the feeling of being like a terrible mother, a neglectful wife, and a half -assed designer all at the same time is like very overwhelming and can put you into some pretty dark places.
You know, spaces. So, um, so I get it. I think, I mean, be grateful first and foremost. Like, if you have a, you have a husband who is like encouraging you to do this, I think that's amazing. Um, that's more than a lot of, um, I think female entrepreneurs and, and mothers probably get, um, is that just like that, that foundation of support.
Um, but yeah, I did like a nanny share. I did, um, A mommy swap like I met another mom who had a baby around the same time. She lives in the neighborhood and literally like I would take the kids for four hours. She would take the kids for four hours just so that we could. Um, like that was my block of working time.
Um, and it didn't cost me anything. So. Um, that, that was really helpful. And I have to add, um, I'm, I'm homeschooling. Yeah, yeah, the pandemic was just like not, you know, homeschooling now as of September. So it's just a little more tough. So like you said, so 12 a .m. 12 a .m. work and after our work in child care, that seems to be the key.
But that's the struggle too, because that's the only income. So, um, I need to start like yesterday. Yeah,
but that's cool. I want to go
ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to say it's great that you're successful. You can raise your rates and charge more and. You know, it's whatever the spokes for sure. Yeah.
Um, you guys touched on a manifestation and it really made my hair stand because on the bus right here. Um, I was searching for, um, in case things for the deodorants. I'm going to make and I don't even know how I tap the screen, but it took me to eco friendly, um, capsules and I'm just like, Oh my God. This is exactly what I want.
And I didn't even think to look for that. I was just looking for any kind of, um, container and I'm just like, this is, this is it. Like, I just really feel like this is what I want. And this is what I'm going to do. Um, so I feel like the manifestation is happening. You know, they're just happening back to back to back all week.
My cousin's talking to me about things randomly and I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I was just thinking to do that. But, you know, you just confirmed whatever is just in my face now. So I just know that this is the way. Um, and I, I just have to say manifestation is the key for everything. Everything you want your boss to know, let them know
you,
you want to be more creative throughout the day and make more time.
You know, you ladies are, um, you sound powerful and you sound motivated and just keep that up.
And, and like he said, I think you brought up a great point, right? There's been so many people who I've had on the powerful ladies podcast who, when they started this. They didn't have a plan. They were overwhelmed.
They didn't know what was going to happen, but they kept leaning in on what they knew they were supposed to do, and they kept being resilient, like we're going to figure it out. We're going to get creative, as Elizabeth said. You know, if I have to wake up at five a .m. to work from two hours before anyone wakes up, I'm going to do that.
But the more they did it, the more kind of validation they got out in the world that, like, keep going, keep going. So, um, being resilient is so important for. Every entrepreneur creative or not creative because being an entrepreneur is hard and that's why I really recommend finding your community, finding your coaches like we need people.
So, um, we cannot do business alone. We just can't, even if it's, if it's our like sisterhood squad that we hang out with, you know, and just, you know, brain dump on or collaborate with and like, is this a good idea? Is it not? So we need to have a circle of people to really help us. Anyway, but especially as an entrepreneur, we're about to wrap up.
Anyone have any more questions for the group? I saw some questions in the chat. Um, let me, Oh, one said, how are people finding you and what work have you done to be just so known that people know to call you? I've
gotten so many people through Instagram. I don't, I don't even have that many followers. I have like, like 8000 followers, but that's also over a span of like six years.
Like, I don't have a ton of Instagram growth. But I don't know just like putting your work out there like people can't know what you can do if you don't tell them. Yeah,
yeah, I think I'm doing things like this whenever I have opportunity is really helpful. Um, a lot of I mean, I started before Instagram was really like. But it is now or a thing at all. Maybe I'm not sure. Um, LinkedIn was like a networking place where people I was being hired because people saw the brands that I've worked for before and it was sort of like this upswing of people starting like these DTC brands were kind of coming online and needed talent resources.
So that's how I built my career was just through networking and word like most. Um, and a few good write -ups and like a few amazing campaigns to be attached to is, is really helpful. I think what I try to do as bad as I am at it is like when something launches that I've been a part of, I just like blast the shit out of it.
And try to, um, put it out to as many sort of people and channels as I can. Um, yeah, I don't have a big following, but I do have, I think, um, the people who follow me and who I'm networked with are like VPs and creative directors and, and, and entrepreneurs. So it's just sort of stays within this sort of word of mouth hive, I guess.
Another
question someone asked is, how do we manage, you know, balancing having to do the responsible things and pay bills and take care of stuff while starting these careers? You know, a lot of people are telling this person to like, get real and go get a real job, which like, I always say, every time you say that an entrepreneur angel loses its wings, every time someone goes back and gets a real job.
So what can they do to balance that and stay motivated from your perspectives? Take
breaks. yeah hustle hustle culture is a myth Take breaks. Take as many breaks as you can, as you need.
I'm basically
taking
off most of the month of November, like, and I'm still making money while doing it. You can take a break.
But also, like, for, really, for lack of better words, fuck that. Like, who cares? Literally, who cares what, what these people think? They're not you. They don't have your dreams. They don't have your ambition. Who gives a shit, like, do what you need to do to feel fulfilled, to feel happy, and to feel successful.
Like, you have to live with yourself every day of your life. Even if it's, even if it's your spouse that's saying that to you and you're living physically with them, like, you're living inside of you, inside of your head every millisecond of time. So in terms of that, the only opinion that matters is yours.
Yeah. On a really practical level, so if I can step in as business coach to answer this one too, like, if you are taking that leap, it's like how do we create Get really clear on what you need to survive from a budget perspective, like minimal, minimal budget. So probably food, rent, transportation, and like electricity, right?
Or internet, like what do you really need? And what's the fastest way you can make that money without a full -time job? So even when I took the leap to be full -time entrepreneur, Leaving 20 years of corporate life. I was still like, wait, how am I going to have any money? It was so silly. So I made sure I had, I had three months runway from like what I had in my accounts to like make it.
I also knew I had backup plans of like, okay, do I have a credit card? If I have to use it. And then I made a list of 10 ways I can make cash fast. And today there's so many ways to do that. And if you're creative, there's even more ways, right? Literally my list was like, Be a bartender, drive Uber, like babysit, dog sit, like I just made up a list of like, who can I call and get cash tomorrow, essentially.
And then I also made another list of, wait a second, what are skills people would actually pay significant money for that I have that might not be the thing. And like, I made that list and I went, okay, I'll survive. And then I never had to use it. Never used it, but it gave me peace of mind that I could feed myself if I had to, because we get so caught up.
And McKell, who's in here, we've talked about this too, like the worst case scenario when we run through the real worst case scenario, most of us are so blessed that it would take us 15 to 20 steps. Before we'd ever have to pull out our worst case scenario, you know, at all. Right. Um, so really look at that for yourself.
And I'd put a note in the chat as well. There are so many small businesses and small businesses, anything less than 40 million, which is crazy, right? So small and macro businesses who are looking for part -time help to organize things, schedule things, project manage, plan events, do photography, do graphics.
We cannot hire enough people. So if you want a part -time flexible, I can use my adult brain to do a few things for you and get some money type of work. It's out there. Um, so, you know, please go look for that. It's on LinkedIn. You guys can message me as well, but you all have adult functioning skills that are you can make money using while you're spending most of your time creative hustling.
So, um, there's so many ways to make money in this world. Well, guys, it has been such a pleasure to have all of you here. Thank you to all of our guests and participants and really thank you to our three amazing panelists. I'm gonna quickly screen share so you can see all of their stuff again so you know, um, how to follow them and find them.
Uh, so here's everyone's links and graphics, uh, Instagram, websites, all the things. Um, please follow them. Please check them out. Hire them. Um, if you have questions, do not hesitate to reach out. These three women love to support and mentor and advise and help just like we said they did. And, uh, I'm here for you too.
Um, I have a thrive membership. Check it out on my website. You do not need to be alone in business. Um, so any questions, uh, reach out. And then if the panels want to hang out, that would be great. But everyone else, thank you so much for being here and your great questions.
Thank you everyone. Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah. Thanks everyone. And thank you. Yes, you're welcome.
Thank
you for listening to today's episode. All the links to connect with Devin, Jess, Elizabeth and women of type are in our show notes at the powerful ladies .com forward slash podcast. If you're looking for more powerful ladies, please come join us on Instagram at powerful ladies, where you can also find some free downloads to start being powerful today.
I'd also encourage you to come and check out my thrive membership, which you can find in the Lincoln bio on Instagram or at the powerful ladies .com.

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