Carrie Schmitt never planned on becoming a professional artist. But when a sudden, debilitating allergy to heat and sunlight forced her to reinvent her life, painting became her lifeline. What started as a way to cope turned into a thriving career as an artist, writer, entrepreneur, and teacher. In this conversation, we explore how she transformed her biggest challenges into a purpose-driven business, the mindset shifts that helped her keep going, and why surrendering control can lead to unexpected beauty. Carrie’s story is one of resilience, creativity, and choosing to see possibility in the mess.
“It’s legitimate that you can become anything you want. You can overcome anything no matter who you are. There are ways around every obstacle.”
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 Meet Devon Blow
01:40 Putting yourself into every creative project
03:20 How Devon found her artistic voice
05:15 From side gigs to big-name clients
07:00 The moment she learned to raise her rates
09:30 Navigating the business side of creativity
11:15 Why social change is central to her work
13:00 Building a career around your values
15:05 Lessons from activism and advocacy
17:00 Balancing art and entrepreneurship
19:20 How to land dream clients
21:15 Staying inspired and avoiding burnout
23:00 What Devon would change about the world
25:10 Advice for creatives finding their path
What really pushed me into it was understanding how much people were getting paid for this type of work. Talking to other artists and learning from like rate sharing sites, you start to see how much money is actually being given and you have to give yourself permission to think that you're, that you deserve that.
That's Devin Blow, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Hey guys, I'm Kara Duffy, a business coach and entrepreneur on a mission to help you live your most extraordinary life by showing you that anything is truly possible. People who have mastered freedom and ease success, who are living their best and most ridiculous lives are often people you've never heard of Until now, are you ready to meet a ray of sunshine?
Today's guest is Devon Blow. She's a creative and illustrator and designer and activist, and her positive energy is contagious. For those of you who are regular listeners, you may remember her from our workshop for creatives. That we shared as a podcast episode in 2021. She was one of our guest panelists on that episode, and in this episode, it's such a treat to get to learn all about her, her journey to be an entrepreneur, who she admires, how she works, what her creative process is, and ultimately why she would use her magic wand to make food, shelter, and healthcare available to everyone.
I can't wait to hear what you think about this episode. Don't forget, you could comments@thepowerfulladies.com.
Well, I am so excited that you were on today when I saw your name on the schedule, I got excited and I was even like, you know what? I'm gonna wear my fancy tiger print tracksuit today, because that's the level of energy and excitement that Devin deserves. Thank you. I love it. Thank you. Um, you know, for anyone who, um, hasn't listened to all the episodes, you were so generous to be a part of our conversation about women in the creative fields.
Um, we had you on that special episode with, um, yourself and Elizabeth McGarry and Jess Goldsmith, and it was one of our, like most talked about, you know, special events that we've had as a, you know, KDCC Powerful Ladies event. And it was just us asking you to come and show up and, and Jess asking you to come and it was so great that Yeah.
That you were a yes there. So let's tell everyone who maybe didn't listen to that, who you are, where you are in the world, and what you're up to.
Okay. Um, my name is Devin Blow. I am an illustrator, designer, artistic director, uh, from Los Angeles, California. Yeah. That's the, that's the main thing.
Living the dream.
Making an art. Making money. Yes. Um, you know, one of the things that I think is so great about your artwork is that is like the color and the energy and the vibrancy. And even today you've got this like amazing bow, and your hair looks fabulous, and you're wearing bright, neon yellow. Like, how much of your art is you?
Oh, all of it is. I try to put myself in everything that I create, and I love bright colors and kind of quirky, eccentric bubble letters and things like that, so I, I, I always do something that I like and then hope that it resonates with other people.
Mm-hmm. Would 8-year-old you be surprised that this is your life today, or would it be like, of course, we've just been waiting for you to get here.
Think
8-year-old me would be surprised that this is what's happening. Um, I'm surprised that this is my life in, in my thirties. So, um, yeah, I, I don't think, I mean, in eight years old I was doing bubble letters, like on my notebooks and if I could tell myself, you know, um, guess what, you're gonna make a living doing that one day That I don't think I would believe it.
I wanted to be a judge when I was a little kid. So, Ooh, what made you gonna be a judge? I dunno. I have a law enforcement family. Mm-hmm. So I grew up kind of going to, um, you know, going to visit my dad's office and like I, I would see the courts in LA and things like that. And I just thought it was cool to be a judge and for some reason that's what I wanted to be when I was a little kid.
It
is, you know, they're fancy, powerful. Yeah. They sit in the big seat. Right.
I was kind of bummed out when I've gone to jury, Judy and I realize, well, the judge is very powerful. Like he doesn't really do most of the trial or her. Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Every time I've been there happened to have been a male judge. Um, it was shocking to me that like, oh no, the jury's the most powerful people in this room.
Absolutely. Like the judge decides the sentencing and he kind of keeps it on, you know, all the rules in place. Yeah.
Um,
but yeah, it was always interesting to me 'cause it, I, you know, growing up I thought a judge was like the decider.
Right. Yeah. I think that's what I was thinking too. And I think, I thought it was much cooler than what it actually is.
I love that. So when, when did you pivot from wanting to be a judge to being like, mm-hmm. Oh, I wanna, you know, live my life as a creative.
Um, you know, I think I've always been creative. I, um, I was in dance, I played multiple instruments. I, um, I did art in high school and then I wanted to write, when I was in college, I was writing, um, and I loved creative writing and I was taking photography, so I was always doing like something in the creative realm.
I just wasn't so sure. I, I don't know why it never occurred to me to do it, um, as a career, like little things. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, like writing is creative obviously, and, um, photography is creative, but I, you know, I just never, I was just kind of dabbling in everything. Um, and then I worked as a makeup artist for maybe about eight years.
And, um, I was still drawing and painting during that time, and I think it just, I don't know, I think. Painting, drawing, um, illustrating has kind of, um, been an outlet for me. Um, it's helped my mental health and it just kind of mm-hmm. Progressed from there, like naturally. Like it wasn't something I was pursuing necessarily, like this is gonna be my career.
It was just something that kind of progressed into that.
And were you working for other people as a designer or have you always worked for yourself as a designer?
So I actually worked for a creative company, um, where there were designers there, but that wasn't my position. Mm-hmm. Um, but I worked with artists, other artists, um, and we did, um, lots of like events and festivals and stuff that were involved with art.
So I was doing things in the art field, but I wasn't necessarily creating art while I was there for the company. I was doing it on my own. But it was a nice segue into that because I started becoming more interested in graphic design while I was there, because I was seeing it, you know, and still had to do some work within those programs.
And, um, so that kind of pushed me into that, that area.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how did you go from working there to working for yourself and then mm-hmm. Landing big clients such as Google.
Um, I haven't done Google yet. Google's on my list. Oh, sorry. Who, who, who's the big one that you have done? I've done Adidas.
Yeah. Um, I've worked with the United Nations, um, the Los Angeles Rams, the Obama Foundation. Um, there's a few. I love that.
In my head, I was like already manifesting Google for you. Yes. That's why I'm ready for planted there because we, we asked everybody on the, um, the creative workshop that we did, and I'll put the number for that podcast episode in the show notes@powerfulladies.com.
But. We asked everybody what your, your wish was like, what could we manifest for each other? And so you said Google, so it's like printed on my brain. Devin, Google. Yeah. Devin, Google. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Google's
my big one. I like that. You're in the future with that. I'm re I'm ready for it.
There is this great book I read where a coach had people go to a party as who they would be mm-hmm.
In five years. Mm-hmm. And everyone had to treat each other like that person in five years. If you were gonna write a book, you like walked around with your book and they talked about what is it like to be an author now and they have some crazy statistic of everyone who's done this exercise through this guy that like 99% of it all made it happen.
Wow. Like the power of of doing that projection and like stepping into it and like really being it, I was like, wow. Like I'm gonna throw those parties every year if that's the case. Yeah. Yeah.
I truly believe that happens. For sure. Yeah.
So going back to the transition, right, so how'd you go from working at a creative agency to working for yourself and then working for some of the biggest brands, um, in the us?
Um, I started working for myself while I was still there, so I was doing on the side. Um, and I was going to, you know, popups and trying to build my website and build a brand at that time. Um, and then I left there and went to another company. Um, and I was still doing this on the side, and this was like a marketing company, but I was still doing design and everything on the side, and then the pandemic happened.
And it turned from part-time to full-time. Honestly, the pandemic pushed me into it full-time. Mm-hmm. I was doing it part-time and um, kind of afraid to take the leap to get into it, you know, just solely, solely working for myself. And then when, um, the pandemic happened, it was like I had no choice. So, yeah.
Um, but it was a good push because I think people never really know when they can fully, you know, you save money and you're like, okay, I need enough money to cover all my expenses and, you know. When is gonna be the right time to do it? And I just think it's hard to gauge. So I was glad I was pushed into it because I, I dunno if I would've ever, you know, like quit my job to pursue it fulltime on my own.
I think, I think most entrepreneurs have something that pushed them. Mm-hmm.
And.
It's, it really is amazing how afraid we can be to like, go after what we really want. And like, were you being, did, were you having stories with yourself of like, oh, I should do it,
I should just do it? Oh yeah. Absolutely. And I was, honestly, I was ready for it.
I was, I was a little miserable. I was, every day I would work and I would think, this is not what I wanna be doing. I wanna be working for myself. I'm gonna be working for myself. I would say that every single day. Um, and it was just like, should I just do it? Should I just do it? And yeah, I just needed that extra push
there.
There's a saying that, um, God or the universe will first like hit you with a feather and then they'll hit you with. Um, a bike and then they hit you with a car. Right. Or like, it's like we're not paying attention to like, the opportunity or like the you can do it. Let's go, let's go. Yeah, absolutely.
Um,
because you, you know, we talked a lot about in the, the creative workshop about how money is like this thing that can't be mixed, right?
Mm-hmm. The whole theme was, you know, empowering creatives to step into, like asking for the big. Retainer or asking for the big project, um, price, and that we shouldn't have to be starving artists.
Mm-hmm.
How have you gone from, you know, trying to figure out how to make it work to, to being bold in knowing what you're worth and what value you're bringing to brands and companies.
Um, you know, that.
Pushed me into it was understanding how much people were getting paid for this type of work. Mm-hmm. Um, talking to other artists and learning from like rate sharing sites, um, yeah. You start to see how much money is actually being given and you have to give yourself permission to think that you're, that you deserve that.
Basically, yeah. Um, I was still, like, when I booked, I think my very like, big client was Adidas, my very first big one and I was still underpricing myself. Like they went, you know, they were like, oh no, we're gonna pay you this. And I was like, oh, so, so you don't realize, I think until you're in it, it's, and it's still something that I really struggle with, but I have to, I try to stay consistent.
Like I'll turn down work. Um, if it's, if you know, people can't meet what I, what I'm asking for some, I mean, there's always room for compromise, but I think that there comes, you know, you have to know your worth and you have to stick to that because, especially with big clients, 'cause they have the budgets for sure.
Yeah. And they're paying other people that,
and kudos to Adi for. Telling you, no, we're gonna give you more.
Yeah.
Yeah. Like, thank you guys for being nice on that call.
Yeah. That, that won't happen. People are gonna pay you what you, you know, if you're under their budget, they're, they'll pay you what you, what you quote usually.
So it was cool that the, um, art director there was like, oh no, we'll pay you this. You know, because I wouldn't have known otherwise. Mm-hmm. And, um, I'm also learning to ask people what their budget is first. That's important. Yeah. If they, if they. Well are willing to tell you, or if they know, always ask, you know, just ask and see what they say, because usually it'll be higher than what you're thinking.
And, um, then you can work with what they're telling you as opposed to underselling yourself. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Um, so much of your art is also, you know, your musings on what's happening in life, you know? Mm-hmm. Socially, politically, personally. What, what was your experience growing up in, in sharing your perspective and standing up for what you believe in?
Is that something that has always been a part of you or have you been kind of developing that over time and did what happened specifically in 2020? Pivot that mm-hmm. To, to, for you to be more emboldened
y. Um, yeah. I've always been, it's, it's something that's grown with me. Um. Becoming more, um, politically active and um, more socially conscious is something that started in college, um, and has progressively gotten stronger.
Um, I definitely was into it before what happened, um, in 2020, but that was kind of also, um. Lit a fire for a lot of people and me included to do it in, within my art, like to see if I could express those opinions through art and if it would resonate with people or if it would touch people, um, in a, in a way that they would understand and receive.
Um, and so yeah, that definitely helped push me into that. But it's always been something that I've been passionate about and it's been progressively. It's gotten stronger as I've gotten older. My mom calls me Angela Davis,
so that just shows where, where my head's at. But yeah, it's, it's always constantly getting, um, deepened. I, I always see something and it's never something specific. Obviously, I'm a black woman and that's like my main. But like, I'm also interested in climate change and, you know, economics and things like this.
Every single aspect of social justice interests me, and, um, I wanna do whatever I can to get the message out.
Yeah. Well, you're, you're a modern woman, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you care about all the things, and I, I think that's, mm-hmm. You know, there's so much right now of like having to be left or right or this or that, and it's like mm-hmm.
Actually, like I'm like all this, like I need a wheel to really discuss all the things I wanna talk about. Yeah. Um, and I think it's a little frustrating that there's, you know, so often people are getting pigeonholed into like, you can only care about one thing, and it's like mm-hmm. Who does that? Like mm-hmm.
It's impossible. Like, I can love my dog and I can love ice cream, and I can love my mom, and like, yes. So if I can do that, I can care about all these other issues that are, um, you know, multi-layered and complex and often all overlapping.
Absolutely it is. And it's very divisive. That's a good point. Because when you don't think of, when you think of it as being one thing or the other, it's incredibly divisive.
And you don't have, you won't find any common ground. But when you think of, when you have discussions with people and you realize that you have the same beliefs in certain areas, it opens up the conversations more. You know? Um, people, someone may have a different position on. Economics for taxes or things like that.
But they may also, but they have the same beliefs when it comes to racial equality and mm-hmm. You know, climate change, all that stuff. Universal healthcare. So you have to like find middle ground, meet people where they are.
Yeah. Which, and I think that's a great point you bring up of, you know, looking for.
The commonalities you have in other mm-hmm. You know, areas of interest or concern. Um, 'cause we're, we are so much more alike than the world is telling us that we're
right now. Yeah.
And it's so frustrating. And, you know, I had a conversation the day with a friend of mine about how I, I believe, and maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that it's like.
Zero 1% of humans are like maliciously trying to be evil.
Mm-hmm.
Everyone else thinks they're doing the right thing with the information that they have. They just, you know, have incomplete or bad information.
Absolutely. And
like so people aren't out here trying to do things with malicious intent. It just looks that way based on the experience or perspective or knowledge that we have and.
I, I think we forget that sometimes, like even our best intentions sometimes are the, are still wrong. Mm-hmm. And, you know, hence all the people apologizing, you know, in droves it seems in the past couple of years for, for something. And yeah, it's, um, I think it's a really interesting space that we're, we're in right now.
Um, but I sure am glad that people have like. Turn their high beams back on and are looking at things and, and being aware. 'cause it's so easy in life, we get so busy that it's like head down. Yeah. I'm just trying to make it through the day I can't. Mm-hmm. Think about anyone else.
Yeah.
Um, I mean, you live in LA so it's like, just there's whole blocks that you can walk through and like, how do you stop and help everyone or all the things you see going on, like it's mm-hmm.
There's so much happening.
It's so much. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I had to learn really to just do what I can with what I got. Mm-hmm. So creating art is where, where it is for me using and mm-hmm. You know, sometimes I feel like it's not enough, but you know, it's, it's what I was given, so I'm gonna work with it
until I
can't anymore.
Yeah.
Well, and we look at how much like you've evolved already in your life. Like who knows what's next. Right.
Right.
What is your favorite medium to use in art?
Um, surprisingly, I actually really enjoy water paint. I don't use it in my career, but I like to do it, um, for fun and to clear my head. Um, primarily I work in, in the digital space.
Um, sometimes I'll sketch on paper before I move to digital, but, um, usually I start straight on my iPad. Um, yeah, you that, that's usually my go-to. It's quicker. I'm easier to erase. I bit easier. Yes. Easy. Much easier to erase, and I erase a lot. So, um, I find when I, it's funny because when I'll go back and forth, like when I'll go to paper and it's like, I'll ask, I'll think that I can like back something, like I'll be tapping the paper like, oh wait, I'm on paper.
I can't, I can't do this
digital. I find myself doing that same type of like, um. Like, my brain thinks something different. Like when I go to, I'll get outta my car, lock my car, then I'll walk up to my front door and be like, why isn't my, I'll be like clicking my keys at my door, like, unlock, you're supposed to unlock when I push this button.
You like, oh, I totally understand. And I made me think the other day, like we have all the new car technology where like you, if you're holding groceries, you can like stick your foot out and like your trunk opens. Yeah. Like I need that for the front door. Like I still don't have a place to put the groceries down, like who has not invented the kick the door and it will open for me.
Exactly. Yeah. I love that at the, trying to, you know, back click on your, on your pad Uhhuh. So, and are you somebody who just has like, creativity oozing out of you all the time? Like, are you waking up like, oh, I gotta go write that down or draw it before I forget it? Or what does, what does it look like for you to be a creative in a, you know, on the day to day basis?
Um, I wish I was, felt creative all the time. I, you know, I, I get lots of ideas for different things. Um, sometimes it's. It, it can be something completely random that like I've never done before. Um, I have a DHD, so I, that is very easy to like, make me jump from one thing to the other. Like, I sew, like I have all this stuff that like, I kind of have to, like half hobbies.
Um, so it's, it's hard for me to, you know, focus. One of the things I love is, um, looking at other people's work and seeing how the awesome stuff they're creating, I find that inspiring. Um, I try not to get like the whole imposter syndrome or, you know. Mm-hmm. Um. But it, but it's helpful, especially if you have a creative block to just kind of, and, and do it without any intention.
Just looking at, you know, different colors and different palettes, different, different ideas, different things people are doing and just kind of say, wow, that's really cool. And then let it sit in the back of your head and it might pop up somewhere you know, differently for you. Mm-hmm. That's one of the things that's helped me, I think a lot.
I love that. Yeah. 'cause it's, we, um. I love that you mentioned the half hobbies and giving yourself that space.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's okay to have a half hobby and it's okay to not be creative all the time. Exactly. Because, and also it'd be probably very overwhelming if you were just like having to draw on everything you saw at all times.
Oh my gosh. And, and, yeah, it. It's something I'm working on, but it, it, it's also something I've just come to accept. Like I have a, mm-hmm. And like, stuff that I don't use, and I'll have, do this, do these things and you just kind of like, they're, they bring me joy at that time. So I try to just look at it in that way, um, until I can, you know, gift it, maybe gift it to someone else or, you know, do something like that.
But. It's very easy for me to jump from one thing to the next. I'm gonna do, or I'll, I'll see something like on tv, like I can do that. Like
I know that's both empowering and dangerous, right? Yes. When, you know, when you were kind of pushed into doing this full time. Mm-hmm. Were you like freaking out about it? Were you like, okay, this is the time I gotta do it? Like what did, how did you prepare yourself? Did you put structures in place? Did you put a team around you?
Like what did you do to make All right? I'm doing it like easier than um, or as easy as it could be.
You know? I was oddly calm and I think because the world was so chaotic at that time, yeah, it was hard to be stressed about that. I mean, everyone was worried about getting sick. Um, it was so, so like unprecedented, you know, people were locked.
That was like right in the, during the lockdown when this happened for me. So it was like, mm-hmm. I wasn't so much worried about it. That's why I think it happened when it did. Honestly, I believe that it happened for me at that, at the exact right time. Um. Because if I, if it hadn't been during, when I was worried about maybe like staying healthy or other, you know, getting, being able to find bread at the grocery store, toilet paper, all that crazy stuff that was going on, um, yeah, I might have been more stressed out about it, but you know, I just tried to.
Everyone was, everyone was losing their jobs. Everyone was, it was, it was almost like a collective.
Yep.
You know, everyone at the same place. So I think that helped me focus in on what I wanted to do, and I was able to just create what I liked and hope, you know, for the best from that.
And then how quickly from when you like committed, did you, did you land the deal with Adi?
Adidas? Um. That's a good question. How long was that? You know, I'm so bad with dates. I'm not really sure. That was maybe a year. Adidas was maybe a year after I was. Mm-hmm. Full-time by myself. Yeah.
Yeah. Which I mean, still amazing, right? To be one year full-time and then being like, oh yeah, this is my normal.
Yeah, it took maybe about a year for me to get like a big client like that. And then after that I started getting many more. Um mm-hmm. But yeah, it was, I was working with just smaller clients and that was great too. Um, yeah, smaller projects and that, that adds up. So
It does. And, you know, coaching other creatives, there's, there's so much pressure, I think to land some of these notable.
Names and mm-hmm. And have them in your portfolio. But when we look at the, the variety of business that's out there and the number of people who need help from people like you and wanna collaborate, you know, we, yes, it's true that the bigger brands do have bigger budgets and they do have more mm-hmm.
Money to spend them marketing and, and design costs. Um, but there's amazing projects at all levels. Absolutely. I think there's. Right sizing how much you're gonna put into it so that if you choose to fit their budget, you can, or like really talking them through it. Mm-hmm. Um, what, you know, different artists have different kind of setups of like how they work with clients.
Some of them do retainer based things. They're like constantly doing say social graphics or working with them quarterly. Mm-hmm. So there's more of like a ongoing relationship. Are you more project based? Are you more ongoing relationship? What's your favorite way to work with a client?
I like both actually.
Um, mm-hmm. I really enjoy projects. Um, that's always fun, but I also enjoy being on retainer and working with someone like on a regular basis because then you get to really know them. The process becomes super, like collaborative and um, it becomes a little easier because you're just used to, you know what they need.
Yeah, you can communicate it and it's just, it, those projects flow really nicely. Um, but yeah, I, I, I really like both. I like, I like the challenge of doing, working with someone new and the, and the structure point of working with someone like on a regular basis.
Mm-hmm. Um, are you working from home still?
From
home? Yes. Yes. Yes. What are the benefits and the challenges for you, for, you know, not just working from home, but like it also being your studio?
Um, the benefit is not having to drive, not having to deal with like weird office politics or, you know mm-hmm. People, um, the struggles are keeping a schedule.
Mm-hmm. Um, you like maintaining, like, I get up at this time and I work from this time to this time separating like. You eating? Are you sleeping? Things that you need to do to take care of yourself from work is really hard. Mm-hmm. It's hard to step away. I've learned that I had to like, keep a section of, um, my home just strictly for work.
Mm-hmm. Um, not working from bed, things like that because then it kind of melts everything altogether and your bed becomes like part of your office and I, so I had to like stop doing that. Um, and it's really easy to do that. Um. Yeah. Uh, but I, and I love, but I love working, like from home. I think it's nice.
I, I always struggle with the idea of like, should I have a studio, like an outside space? Um, but I like doing, I like working from home. Maybe one day I
do too. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I, I feel really lucky that there are places that I can go and, and. Feel like, like there's a different feeling of like, when you, like, get in your car for the day and walk into the office Right.
And walking for lunch. And I don't know if it's like my story of what it means to be a grownup and be a professional when I'm like, like I'm really not a grownup. I'm like walking somewhere with like my, my laptop in my bag or something. Yeah. Um, but when I feel like I need that or like wanna be around other people, I, I am really appreciative that there are.
Coffee shops that let you work there or mm-hmm. They're shared workspaces. Um, because it is just nice sometimes to remember there's other people around and to Yeah. Get some of that energy. 'cause I'm definitely a, a 50 50 introvert extrovert. Too much people. I'm like, okay, I need to go find a hole and have a timeout.
Um, but none then I'm really just like, I, it can be a, if I get too hermity, I have to like rebalance things.
Yeah. That's, that's hard, I think too, because it's easy to get into that and not realize it. And then one day you're like, have I left the house? Yeah. Uh, yeah. I need to go be
a human. Go be out with people.
Yeah. Yeah. I, yes, I'm good at getting sunshine on my face. I'm not always good interacting with humans. Not on the phone or the computer. Right.
So, you know, as we're coming into 2022 mm-hmm. Are you feeling like. It's a fresh start for you. Are you excited about this year? Is it just another year for you? Like what, what is it for you personally and for your business and kind of where are you taking things?
Um, I'm looking at it as a new year for new opportunities.
Um, I'm trying to think of it, look at it with fresh eyes. Um, I, it, yeah, I'm just hoping for more, you know, big, um, clients. I, I don't know. It, it's one of those things that's tricky because it's like, ah, it's just another day. And then it's also like, you know, what do I wanna do with myself this year and how do I want to extend myself and push myself out of the box?
I'm really trying to push myself out of the box, um, and challenge myself in 2022. Do new things.
What does, what does that mean for you, pushing yourself outside of the box?
Um, for one thing. I've been a, I'm starting to get asked to do like speaking engagements, um mm-hmm. That is out of my comfort zone. But you're so
good
at it,
you're, it's like, yes, thank
you, thank you.
And like teaching. Um, I was reached out to recently to teach like a workshop and I'm like, oh man, that just sounds like, not for me, but I'm, but I'm trying to push myself into it. I'm like, okay, you can do this. Like, just, you know. Push yourself outta your comfort zone, you know? Mm-hmm. Step off the ledge and do go for it.
So that's really me trying to push myself.
I like it. Well, I've done so many workshops and classes. Mm-hmm. If you ever want any tips, just hit me. Thank you. I'll happily. Yes, thank you. There's, there's a secret formula I teach people, so it's super easy and more fun. Okay, awesome. Yeah. 'cause it's like. Uh, sharing what you already know should be easy.
Absolutely. Yes. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Um, but I love that. Is and are you somebody who regularly is, is like really focused on growth and momentum and like further developments or is that something that comes in, in waves for you?
No, that's something I think about all the time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's constantly in the back of my head and I'm constantly trying to think of something.
New in trying to, um, especially with creating content, uh, for social, uh, trying to think of what, you know, people wanna see, keep up with, you know, all the trends while staying true to my own voice. Um mm-hmm. Yeah, that's constantly in the back of my mind. I'm not always successful with it, but I'm constantly thinking about it.
Yeah. And what makes that important to you?
Uh, I think it's important to stay relevant and not, you know, and to keep, um, learning really. Mm-hmm. We're never fully, I feel like I'm never fully there. Like I'm never gonna know everything and there's always something to learn and there's always ways to be better.
And, um, I think you reach more people that way by doing that, by figuring how out how you can expand and be better.
Yeah. I mean, I can't stop. Like I, I'm always is is it, I think it's half being curious and just wanting to like learn and do and see more things. Mm-hmm. Like really feel like I'm taking advantage of what life has to offer.
Yeah. And then there's other parts of me that there, it, it's, I get bored.
Mm-hmm.
I hate doing the same things over and over again. And it's like bad for humanity if I'm bored, but. Like I just, that's why I think why I love reading and learning and like talking to amazing people like yourself and like, let's go do cool shit.
Like there's so many Yeah. Things that need to be fixed or things that can be made and it's absolutely, how do we use our powers for good? Um. Mm-hmm. I mean, sometimes I find myself wanting to shake people and be like. You have skills that we need. Get your shit
together. Yes. And people, I think we don't always have to stay within the same box either.
That's no something. It's like you can do multiple things. You don't have to just stick with this one like genre of, you know, you can do multiple things and push yourself to do that.
I know I was, I just got inspired by a friend sharing about their friend who like. Every, um, takes new classes. Mm-hmm. And then once that class is done, we'll go take a different class and it's things like a guitar lesson and then jumps to sailing or not tying and ceramics.
And I'm like, oh, good. Like, I feel like because of the pandemic, I've been stuck in this space of like having to learn everything in the same box that is my office. Mm-hmm. I'm, you know, having things like Masterclass and all these other classes that I have access to online, but I want to be back, like using my hands again.
Like I have such a craving to like do tangible things. Yeah. And I haven't painted myself in, I mean, besides like a random project here or there that was for something, but like to just like paint for the sake of painting and just see what shows up. Mm-hmm. I haven't done in so long and I'm like, you know what?
I think this weekend I'm gonna actually like. I still have paints, but I'm gonna go buy some canvases or buy a notebook that would make sense. And just start seeing what shows up because Yeah, I, I've, I see what a lot of people as well, the pandemic forced us into like, putting in structures. Like we weren't being purposeful, like either preparing to do this or being aware what, like there were so many things we had to do.
Mm-hmm.
That I know. I think there's been a gap of like putting, just. Play and creativity for the sake of play back into our lives. Absolutely. So I'm excited to put more of that in.
Yeah, definitely.
Um, you know, you had a great post and, um, I reshared one of your illustrations for Martin Luther King Day.
Mm-hmm. And I loved what you said about, you know, so often the same quote gets used over and over again and the same everything. Um. So you shared a bunch of, of illustrations with different quotes of his
uhhuh.
What does, what does he mean to you and what do leaders like him represent to you?
Um, you know, Martin Luther King is one of those ones that it's really easy to get caught up in this aesthetic of, um, he was such a.
He was so, he's so revered. And he's also, he's like, he's, he's one of those people that's loved by everyone, but it's really easy to get caught up into his more like flowery, um, things that he says. He says really incredible kind, you know, he has all these really kind quotes. But, um, you have to, people forget like the time period that he was mm-hmm.
Around what he was actually, you know, it, he was, this was during the civil rights era. This was during segregation. Jim Crow, you know, he, he was, you know, he was in, he was jailed multiple times. So for things that was saying, so, um, I think that's one of the things that. It's just often forgotten. And, um, for me personally, I really love how radical he was.
He was extremely radical. Mm-hmm. He fought for the little people. He was anti-capitalist. Um, he was, you know, he was, he, he had all those extreme thoughts and people, I think a lot of people don't know that. Yeah. And it's like, well, he was like, you know, he was assassinated. I think people forget, you know, that whole part.
So to me that's like one of the things about him that's really important to me. And at first he was never really, because of how he was always presented in the media, um, he wasn't really like one of my favorite activists. I was like, Hey, you know, I'm okay. Okay, like, kumbaya, hold hands. Like, that's cool, but like, you know, like, what else do you have to say?
And mm-hmm. Until you really read his, like letters, um, his essays, things like that. Then you really start to learn. You're like, oh, he was. You know, he was very, very radical for that time. So, you know, that's, that was my thought process behind sharing that was like, ah, I don't think people realize how radical MLK was, and he was these awesome, you know, nice things too.
But he was also very like, this is it. Like we need to do this. And you're like, oh, okay.
Well, he is also like not a saint. He was a man, right? Mm-hmm. You know? That too. The, so many of the photos he's like talking are very solemn.
Mm-hmm.
And like, I'm like, no, I'm like, if there's like, he like laughed and was like mm-hmm.
Had family meals and yelled at people and got in fights and mm-hmm. Like it wasn't, no one can be a 24 7 visionary saint. That's not what it is. And I think you use a great word of like when someone's revered mm-hmm. Uh, unfortunately we lose 90% of what they actually were as a exactly person.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so, you know, that leads me to wanting to know who, who are other people that inspire you, that are maybe alive today that you're like, they're badass, I wanna hang out with them.
Yeah. Um, Angela Davis is one. Um. She's another one who was extremely radical, but she's, uh, also very, very, like, she has so many profound things to say. Mm-hmm. Um, bell hooks before she passed away, I think that was last month. Um, bell Hooks is an also another one who's like, she loves women so much in her and the way she speaks about, um, women's equality and just L-G-B-T-Q equality and black women.
It's just, it's really inspiring to me. Um, who else? Oh my gosh, it's so many. I'm trying to think of people who are still alive. Um, like current people that I look up to. Issa Rae is someone that I really look up to. Mm-hmm. She, I, I've been following her career since she was just doing web series stuff.
Mm-hmm. Um, and she had this show. Called Awkward black girl, and it was so relatable, I felt, because I felt like an awkward black girl. And so the, the scenarios she would be in were so funny to me and just so relatable and so watching her career progress and her still stick with that whole awkwardness thing.
Mm-hmm. Because on Insecure, she still also awkward and um, was really, it's really inspiring to me. I love her. I would love to work with her at some point. That would be, that would be like a dream for me for sure. All right. Ira,
Google. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yes.
Well, it's like, um, it being awkward, iss real, you know? Yes. I, I wish, I wish more people knew that their awkwardness was their magic.
Absolutely.
And so, yeah.
And it's okay to be, for it to be funny too. I think that's like, one of my favorite things about it is like. It can be funny. Being awkward is really funny and it's okay to laugh at it.
It's so funny. And it's maybe not funny when you're in the being the one, right. Oh shit. But like, yeah, it's very funny, especially in hindsight. Mm-hmm. But we like, it's, it's more real too, because that's what actually is happening. Um, I think that's like why shows like flea bag have done so well also. Yeah.
Because. It's, it's way more interesting going back to like seeing a whole person perspective, right? Mm-hmm. When you see them like having a win and then like what they're feeling and then like overreacting. 'cause it's, it's real, like mm-hmm. This is one day in, in most people's lives. Um, it's just, yeah.
It's, it's funny to me. That so much of culture, especially through social media, is about like the, what's the perfect option. Mm-hmm. And I'm glad that people are rebelling against that and like showing the not perfect. And I think it's really interesting, all these people who are creating like faux perfect, like faux not perfect.
Mm-hmm. And I'm like, this is, why are we making it so hard? Like, okay. Um. But, so I would love to hear some of your philosophical musings. What are, what are things that you wish you could wave your magic wand and sort out in the world?
Ooh. Oh man, that's a good question. I would end if, if I could wave a wand and end anything in the world, it would be hunger.
I think we're in that, that sounds kind of cliche, but it's true. It's one of those things where it's like. Why are people still hungry on the planet? There's like, there's companies that have patents on, you know, I saw this video not that long ago of a company who has a patent on a specific kind of pineapple and I'm like, are we putting patents on fruit?
Like towards, yeah. People can't grow it just things like, like, you know, some, something as simple as people that the fact that people starve is, blows my mind. Also, housing. Um, I think housing is a right. I think food is a right. And I think healthcare is a right. I think those are mm-hmm. Those are things that we need to live and survive.
And I think it should be, I think those are human rights. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we, I don't think they should have dollar signs on them. And so that's one, those were one of those things that I would change immediately if I could.
Well, and, and when we look at, when there are smaller communities mm-hmm. I think the rule of like how many people you can really feel connected to is like 150 at any one time.
Mm-hmm. And that would've been like the largest tribe size at some journey ever. Some part of our anthropological journey as humans. Mm-hmm. Um, but in a group of 150 people, you're not gonna let somebody starve or not have shelter like. It would be weird, like, yes, you, if someone's suffering and they're next to you, you help.
Like
mm-hmm.
It's just, it's what you do. Um, absolutely. So it's like, I, I want the, something that irritates me, that aligns to your magic wand wishes is, is the level of thinking that we've deserved the things that we have. Mm-hmm. And it's like, what? Like in reality, what have you done? Mm-hmm. Did you build your own house?
Did you like everybody works hard. Mm-hmm. Everybody does. Mm-hmm. So thinking that some people work harder than others, like it the, on the scale, it's like this close, like, I work harder than you by one, one millimeter of a harder ness, whatever that measurement is. Yeah. And we, we just, you know, I, I think it ties back to people.
Being so being unhappy. Mm-hmm. With the fact that they have to do things they don't wanna do and they have to work in areas they don't want to. And because they've had like so much of this, like never choosing what they want
mm-hmm.
That they're like, well, I had to work this hard, so. Yes, you have to be in pain and suffering to have it too.
And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like that. Yeah. Hold on, hold on. Like, how about we talk about the fact that you don't have to choose the pain and suffering route at all.
Yes.
Like, and I think that's part, um, why I'm so passionate about helping people create businesses that allow them to do what they care about.
Mm-hmm. Because we, the more people we can get out of the mindset of. The only path is the sucky path that I'm on, for lack of an elegant way to say that. Um, like that's, we need people to realize that it doesn't have to be so hard. It can mm-hmm. It's never, you know, it's never like a vacation vibe. We still work, but like there's a way to really align the work where it doesn't feel like the world's against you.
And because the world's against you, it has to be against everybody else. And there's just so much of that. 'cause that's, that's the, every time you talk to people about the homelessness issue or food or whatever we currently make people pay for. Yes. Healthcare even, right? Mm-hmm. It's always a matter of, well, you can have it if you work hard.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, Hmm.
Yeah. And it's like, eh, that's not necessarily true. And I had that conversation recently with someone when discussing a canceling student debt. Mm-hmm. They were like, well, I had to pay all my student loans, so why should these, these younger people not have to pay theirs? And I'm like, really?
That's your. Yeah. Like that's your only argument against canceling student debt.
Doesn't make any sense. No. How about like, you wish you had it for somebody else, so Yeah, absolutely. I, it's, um, or why, why do we have to have the student debt in the first place? Like, let's skip a few of the steps. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's, it's, uh. It's very much 6-year-old mentality of like, it's not fair. And you're like,
okay, time out, time out. Uh, 'cause there's this, there's so, there's so much, um, base and for everyone and there's so many resources and you know, I had this hippie moment, like one of the last couple times in the grocery store and I was like. Everything we need the earth has provided for us
everything.
Absolutely.
So like where, where did it go? Into this place where we need all these systems and structures and all, like all the things. Mm-hmm. And I'm reading a great book right now called, um. Uh, good morning, beautiful business. Mm-hmm. And it's about supporting the power of like local economies and like for-profit businesses to do good.
Like this woman was saying how starting her businesses in the sixties and seventies as she was so anti profit. Until she realized, oh, but if we have profit, we can do cool things with it. Mm-hmm. It doesn't have to be selfish profit, it can be Right. Contribution, profit. And, um, she had this opportunity to live when an Inuit Alaskan village.
Mm-hmm.
And seeing how, again, there was however many people were there. Every time somebody went hunting, everyone else would go to their house with a bucket because they would get a piece. Whatever we had, we shared. Mm-hmm. And it's, I feel privileged that I've, I got to live in Europe and see what people call a socialistic society.
Yeah. And how not socialistic it actually is when you're there. Mm-hmm. Um, it's just more choosing, do we take care of our people or do we not?
Absolutely. Yeah. I
don't know. I don't need a whole pie to eat by myself. I'm happy to give pieces away.
Exactly.
And when you see
things like, um, something that really learning about gardening, like watching gardening videos was something that really struck a chord mm-hmm.
Chord with me. Because you see people and they don't realize how much they're planting. Like I would see these tiktoks of people like, oh, I didn't realize I was planting a whole field of tomatoes. Like by just. Yeah. Using one tomato, you know, full of seeds. Mm-hmm. All this stuff came from it, and you're, you just start to think, you're like, wow.
Mm-hmm. Couldn't we feed everyone? Like if we wanted to? Yes. Yeah.
We, it's, it's, we can, right? Mm-hmm. Especially changing some of the agricultural systems that are, are there right. Even simple things like people participating in meat free Monday. Yes. Free up more food for other people. Not because you're not eating meat, someone else can, but because of how much land and resources meat production takes.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like there's so many ways to, to put things back into balance and Absolutely it inspires me that. There are, are people thinking and discussing and worrying about this that you would never know from the outside. Mm-hmm. Or like, we know you care based on your art. Mm-hmm. But to know that, like how much you're thinking and watching and learning and like, you know, it's, it, it's makes me hopeful who I have the privilege to meet through doing this podcast and the work I do where I feel so much more hopeful than.
I think a lot of other people do because we're not seeing what people are really doing with their lives on a day-to-day basis.
Mm-hmm. And
a lot of what we are seeing regularly makes everyone think people just care about outfits of the day and, you know, some memes, and you're like, no, there's, that's not what humanity has come to, I promise.
Right. I miss being able to go out and like, hear people speak or hear, hear, like, be in a room with people where you're discussing something that matters to the community or at a, you know, global scale. Like, I want that to come back and for people to feel safe to do that.
Yes, absolutely.
Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause you being in LA it's been one of the strictest places during mm-hmm.
COVID. Mm-hmm. Um. What are you excited to have come back and, and be available again?
Um, I'm excited to start doing, um, popups again, like getting out and interacting with people, um, at shops. I, some of this stuff is starting to come back, but I still don't feel comfortable doing it, so, um, I'm excited to the point where I feel like I can go out there and do it and not have to worry about getting sick.
Um. Concerts live music is another thing I'm really looking forward to. But yeah, just being out, being out and being able to not have our faces covered and not, you know, feel like we have to stay away from each other. I'm hoping that comes back. I'm, I miss people keep saying this is the new normal, but I'm refusing to believe that.
I'm like, nah, this has gotta have an end point at some time. It's not gonna be forever. I don't think so. Yeah, I, I would love that. Return to that. I think we'll be much more appreciative of it once we have it back.
Yes. And having traveled in the US like it's, it's, you know, back to normal in a lot of other places.
Mm-hmm. Whether know mm-hmm. We can arguing the safety of that is for another podcast. But, you know, there's a lot of things that have, I either have never gone into the California version of New Normal or have come back already and. Um, humans are so resilient. Like, give us mm-hmm. Give us an inch and we're gonna take it.
We're gonna take Yeah, absolutely. Our elbows out and get after it. Uh, so for everyone who, um, actually I'm gonna start over. I'm gonna ask you what we ask everybody on the Power Ladies podcast. Where do you put yourself on the Powerful Lady Scale? If zero is average, everyday human and 10 is the most powerful lady you can imagine.
Where do you put yourself today and where might you put yourself on average?
Ooh. Um, oh man. I'd like to put myself
so, so what's the rank again? So zero is like average everyday human, and 10 is the most powerful lady you can imagine.
You know, I'm gonna say 10. Ooh. I love
it.
I'm gonna give myself that. I think I'm very, I think I'm extremely powerful. Mm-hmm. Um, that's something that I would not have said a few years ago about myself, but, um, I know it's there. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. I'm gonna say 10. I'm powerful. I can do a lot.
You can, and you are. Um, so for everyone who's now part of the Devon Fan Club, uh, where can they find you, follow you, reach out to work with you?
All the things
you can find me on Instagram at, um, at Dev the Pineapple. Um, my website is dev the pineapple.com. You can, um, email me through my website if you wanna work together or just chat or say hello. Yeah, those are the two best places to reach me. Perfect.
And what would you like to leave everyone listening with?
Thoughts musings a quote, your perspective.
I want everyone to know, um, that as even when people tell you, you know, you can do anything, um, it's actually legitimately true. Uh, no matter what you can overcome just about anything, I fully believe it is in your. Ability to, no matter who you are. Um, I, there are obstacles, but I think that they're always around them for everyone on every path.
So, um, yeah, just, just keep, keep that thought process and if nobody has told you that I love you. That they love you. I love you. I love all of you. Yay.
And we love you, Devin. Thank you. Thank you so much. Being a yes to, um, to myself and the Power Plays podcast. And. Just honestly being sunshine out there, we need more of it.
And, um, anything I can do to support you, I am always happy to. Um, and I'm glad that we're, we're keeping you in the circle because Yes. Um, I need more people like you, uh, in my regular circle, so thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
All the links to connect with Devin are in our show notes @thepowerfulladies.com. Please subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening, and leave us a rating and review. Those really help us to connect with more listeners like you. And spread all the good stories we've got in The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
You can come and hang out with us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, and if you wanna connect directly with me, the best places are to visit kara duffy.com or on Instagram, Kara underscore duffy. I'll be back next week with a brand new episode and a new fabulous guest. Until then, I hope we're taking on being powerful in your life.
Go be awesome and up to something you love. Bye.
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Instagram: @DevThePineapple
Facebook: devthepineapple
Website: devthepineapple.com
Email:devon@whatsgoodhomegirl.com
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
