Episode 148: Design, Justice & Healing Arts | Anna Olinova | Graphic Designer & Therapist in Training
Anna Olinova is a graphic designer, mental health counselor in training, and social justice activist who is merging her skills to create a career that makes an impact. From immigrating to the U.S. from Russia to building a design business that reflects her values, Anna has always asked “Why?” and pushed for better solutions. She shares how her passion for racial and social justice led her to pursue art therapy, the challenges and opportunities of blending creativity with activism, and the moments that shaped her perspective on community and healing. This is a conversation about finding your voice, creating work that matters, and staying grounded while working toward change.
“I’m working on when to fight for the injustices I see, when to be a perfectionist, when to get it done, and when to just take a walk.”
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Graphic Designer for PL & KDCC
Mental Health Counseling & Expressive Arts Therapy
Leslie University in Cambridge, MA
Women who created the Intersectionality Theory : Kimberle Crenshaw
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 – Why Asking “Why” Led to a Career Pivot
04:55 – Learning to See the Gaps in Design and Process
09:00 – How StrengthsFinder Revealed Her Superpowers
16:17 – Immigration, Identity, and Belonging
23:56 – Teaching Art and Discovering a New Calling
33:00 – The Intersection of Social Justice and Mental Health
38:00 – Decolonizing the Practice of Therapy
46:54 – Reflections on the Human Condition
52:00 – Rethinking What It Means to Be a “Powerful Lady”
58:00 – Balancing Perfectionism, Urgency, and Rest
1:02:02 – Measuring Progress and Impact Over Time
I think a lot about like the human condition and why things are so inequitable in the entire world, including in this country, and I think greed is at the foundation of it. Mm-hmm. Like the huge income disparity, a wealth gap. I think that's ultimately like my biggest personal factor with social justice or even environmental justice.
That's Anna Anova, and this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm Kara Duffy, your host, one of the hardest roles to fill on any team. As a graphic designer who gets you and your brand, I feel so lucky to have today's guest, Anna Anova, on my team as my graphic designer. Not only is she a great artist, she cares and is committed and asks why as much as I do.
She's also a tremendously powerful lady in her life as she's evolving from freelance graphic designer to arts therapists so she can support the social justice causes that matter to her by bringing healing arts to those communities. Get ready as you talk about all the things from immigrating to a new country being different, and even being overwhelmed with how much work there is to do in the world.
Cool. And I am very excited that I get to spend this recording session with you finally. Yes. Finally. Um, 'cause it's we're, it's so easy for us to jump into conversation. So before we get ahead of ourselves mm-hmm. Please tell everyone listening who you are, where you are in the world, and what you're up to.
Okay. My name is Anna Anova. I am in Southern California, usually in Los Angeles, kind of all over the place at the moment. And what are you up to in the world? I am up to being a graphic designer for Powerful Ladies and for Kara Duffy and yeah, for about three years now. Ever since the birth Until, yes, until you birthed your baby.
And I was like your graphic design, birth doula. Um, so yes you were. Yep. Um, I'm also in grad school right now for mental health counseling and expressive arts therapy. Um, I go to school at Leslie University. It's an online program and Leslie's in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Um, and what else am I doing?
Making art, doing cool shit. Just making things, yeah. Mm-hmm. Just making things and designing spaces and designing graphics and, um, singing songs in the shower. I just like making stuff cooking food.
Good at You're good at all the making of things. Yeah. Yeah. That's,
that's
it. I feel really lucky that one, I met you in general, but then two, that when I had the epiphany of I need a graphic designer and that it should be you, that it just worked out so well.
And I have a lot of clients that I'm helping to find graphic designers, and obviously I wish that everyone could have access to you because you do make the process so easy. Um, but it's, it's really, I really appreciate the unique and special relationship that we have in. Uh, like us to each other as humans, but then you getting me as entrepreneur and what we're up to as well.
Yeah. So how does that occur, like
from your side? The process of understanding entrepreneurs, I think comes from being one myself for one. And so I have been through a lot of the roadblocks, a lot of the psychological roadblocks. I spent like an exorbitant amount of time in junior college not knowing what I wanted to do.
Um, I'd always been a maker, like as a kid. Art was like my happy place. Um, in high school, I got absorbed into the photo class. We had a photo developing lab at school, and I would spend my lunchtime in there. I loved it. I was like obsessive about making like the perfect print. Um, but I never wanted to be a quote starving artist.
And so I never wanted to be an, like a painter or a photographer, even though I loved doing that stuff. Um, and then after a few years of junior college is when I learned that graphic design was even a thing. Um, and it made sense because it balanced art and creativity along with kind of like more of the commercial world, which to my immigrant parents was more respectable.
Um, and so went to undergrad and then when I graduated. Very expensive private school graduated and it was like around the financial bust time. Um, and so finding a job was really hard and that also coupled with my, um, design program was very conceptual. Um, it was very like high level design thinking. Um, it was good if I wanted to be an art director, but when you're fresh outta college, people hire you as a junior designer.
And my problem was, I was always asking, why is it this way and how can it be better? And it wasn't my job to do that. Um, so, uh, eventually I found a job at an agency. And this agency was a smaller marketing social media agency. And it was cool 'cause we got to work with a really wide range of clients. Um, and I particularly liked working with the music clients, um, and.
While I was working there, I was also freelancing on top of that. And despite working more than full-time, I still wasn't able to make rent in LA and pay all my bills. And it was really exasperating. And this relates to the conversation we were just having on Friday with the speaker panel. Mm-hmm. But just like everyone else, you hit a point where you're like, the, the time, like I, I don't, I'm not most creative at 9:00 AM and I'm sick of making $20 an hour while my boss charges 150 for design hours.
Um, and I took the StrengthsFinder test, which I love, love StrengthsFinder. And what I learned is that I have a lot of kind of like interpersonal, like empathy, um, the sort of like human relating skills. And a lot of ideation, skills and strategic skills, but not a lot of execution skills. So what that meant was that people would come to me and it would just be like a, Hey Anna, do this.
And I would do it like very slowly and I would ask so many questions about why is it like this? How can it be better? And I wanna talk directly with the client to really be able to like feel into what their needs are. And I wasn't really able to do that in this position. And whereas with my, the freelance clients I was taking on the side, I really liked working directly with them because I felt like I could do my best in making whatever their dreams are come mm-hmm.
To fruition visually. Um, and so that StrengthsFinder test made me realize that I wasn't just like a problematic junior designer, it's just that I wasn't able to leverage my strengths in that position. Um, and so eventually I hit a point where I was like so exasperated and with my job that I like hurt my back.
I literally remember sitting there after hours after everyone else had worked left and I was working so hard and I felt like the anger, like come out my back or something and I heard mm-hmm What's the muscle that in the lower back when you pull it and you like can't walk, I can't remember the name.
Like it, like a sciatic stic nerve. Yeah. I had a sciatic thing. Mm-hmm. Like I literally felt the stress bulge out of my sciatic neuro and then I like couldn't walk and that was sort of a last straw and this was all happening while I was getting coaching. I was in a personal development program that you are also familiar with.
Mm-hmm. Um, and having that support system. Because they, they, the support system, my coach and people in my group, um, they knew that I'd been struggling with wanting to leave my job, also wanting to leave boyfriends that I was with. And there was all these areas in my life where I just felt stuck and terrified mm-hmm.
To make that jump. Um, but with their support and with also hitting that breaking point where I was like, this is not working. I eventually felt empowered to quit that job. And then I met some friends and traveled Southeast Asia for, um, about six weeks. Um. That's amazing. Yeah. I really felt like that was like a dividing line between my old life and my new life.
Um, and the reason that's important is because I think part of being a creative is also about creating your life, like choosing how it goes. Um. And then making that happen. And that was such a victory over my past and how I'd been before where I would watch everyone else travel or other people have their own businesses or mm-hmm.
Like, I was so jealous, like, how do, how do they do it? But I didn't believe in myself and I was like, well, that they could do it, but it's not for me. I couldn't possibly until I did. Mm-hmm. It took a while and it took an army, but does that answer
your question? Yes. No, it does. And actually, I wanna go back to Southeast Asia because I love traveling and I wanna know like, where did you go?
What was that like? How did that experience change your life?
Um, okay. So the, the whole, like the decision of, of going meant I'm leaving my job. Um, and when I come back, there isn't a job to come back to, but I knew I was coming back to freelance and I knew that I had, um, clients waiting for me just out of like word of mouth people that I had picked up throughout the years.
Um, and I, I literally like manifested it in a meditation. Um, it was wild. It was like some sort of visualization meditation and it was like, picture yourself somewhere in nature. And I pictured myself on a beach and I heard the laughter and voices of some of my friends who I knew were already traveling.
Um, and then I got that it was them and that I was like there with them in Asia. And this was like a, essentially like a daydream that I had or a visualization. Um, but it kept pulling me and I. Followed that. Um, I didn't have any money saved up really though. I, I kind of did. Like, I, when I, once I decided I was going on this trip, I Ubered, I think I was like driving Lyft to make extra money, but I didn't have, like, I, I know a lot of freelancers or entrepreneurs when they quit their jobs, it's like they've been responsible and had that cushion saved up.
I can't say that I did that, but it worked out. No need. Yeah. It's, I think, I dunno, I think that it just worked out. It's not like I have it, it was stressful, you know? Mm-hmm. But I was so, I became so clear on this new vision of my life that nothing else was good enough anymore. Um, so the trip itself, um, I went to Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam.
Um, those are places I dreamed of because I just, well, first of all, Anthony Bourdain, two words. Anthony Bourdain. Um, I don't know. I've always just been called to those places because they felt mo most different from what I'd already seen. I'd, I'd been to Europe. I went to Europe also six week trip after college.
Um, but I don't know. Yeah, it just, I just, yeah. Wanted to go there. I already had friends that were there. Traveling in a group of five is a little bit tricky. Yes, can be. Yeah. But, um, we went through places so quickly too, and it was like, it was almost like a summary of each place. Mm-hmm. Um, I would wanna go back and really like.
Enjoy more, like slow down. Yeah. I think before traveling, I would travel to a lot of places really quickly. When you're younger, maybe you can do that, but now I'm like, I'm tired. Like I just wanna chill. Yeah. But, um,
yeah. Well, and, and you mentioned briefly in your intro that, um, your, you are, you immigrated to the us so where did you immigrate from and what was that experience like for you?
Oh, did I mention that? Yes,
you did. You dropped that in. Yeah, so my family, so I was born in Moscow, Russia. Um, my family moved in 1992. I was five. Um, it was right, uh, at the, which is when they were converting from, uh, essentially like socialist society into this crappy version of whatever corrupt Russian capitalism that they have now.
Um. And it was time to go. Things were really dangerous. The quality of life was going down, and um, things were scary. And so we left, uh, we actually came to Santa Monica as visitors and we just never left. Um, luckily my dad had some cousins that were already established in the LA area and, um, that's why we chose Los Angeles.
Um, and it was super interesting 'cause growing up it's, I don't, I didn't know that, like what, what our political or what our, what our, like immigration status was. I didn't really know. Mm-hmm. Um, but I always sensed that I was different. Like I just felt different. Um, and so that sort of experience of feeling like I don't quite fit into any particular group, um.
I think is such a big part of my identity formation. Um, 'cause I always sort of like identified with being some form of marginalized group. Mm-hmm. But I didn't know why, 'cause I'm obviously white presenting.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I'm talking about this because I, race and social justice causes in general take up a really large part of my brain space, especially these days.
Yeah. Um, I'm just gonna jump around, but, um, I learned a lot in my, in my counseling program currently. Um, there's a big emphasis in this school on anti-oppression as part of any institution, including the institution of counseling because it's essentially built, a lot of the counseling principles were founded by white men.
Um, and so that lens with which they view the world or with which they view pathology is very specific to a certain culture. Um, and so we're essentially like decolonizing counseling. Um, and we had this, uh, we had a class, it was called Power, privilege, and Oppression. And in this class we had to search a lot about our own, the intersectional aspects of our own identity.
And, um, I learned a lot about my family history that I didn't know. Um, like I learned that when my dad was a baby. And then right before my mom was born, they, both of their families, uh, they were evacuated from Ukraine during World War ii. Um, because we're Jewish. And they had to go like to the south and to the east of Russia.
And then both of their families came back and settled in Moscow. So I didn't know that my family had been evacuated as a result of the Holocaust essentially. Mm-hmm. Um, and this interested me a lot in the context of trauma and trauma that's inherited through the cells in our bodies and also through just like social interactions, ongoingly
mm-hmm.
Through our families. I don't know if this makes sense 'cause I'm jumping around so much. No, it makes so in my head.
Yeah, it does. Like in my head, this is all connected. Yeah. All these topics. No, I think it's perfect. So, so just to kind of, to wrap it up, um, put a little bow on what you're sharing. Right.
There's. Your, your immigration story is very much aligned to what you're currently working on in school. Mm-hmm. With, and you didn't do that intentionally, like it's just been coming out of, of what it means to have generational trauma and what it means to have intersected intersectionality and for people who don't know what intersectionality is.
Do you wanna explain that?
Yeah. So I feel like I'm totally gonna butcher it because I don't remember the woman whose theory it is, but it basically speaks to the different factors of our identity, including race, including gender, including immigration status, um, and everything. Right.
Sexual orientation heights.
Mm-hmm. I mean, you could put a lot in there. Yeah. Like what makes you, and like abil, like physical ability. That's one that I
feel like always gets. Lost. I feel like it's always like the forgotten one, but it's also really important.
Mm-hmm. Whether
the ability, whether the or disability is visible or not.
Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Yeah. So different factors of our identity, shape our worldview and shape our experience of life. And it's stuff that's so subliminal and so like the water we swim in. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's so foundational to the way that each one of us sees the world. And I think it helps to see why all the disagreements happen too.
Obviously there's a lot of disagreements going on politically
right now, and Well, and intersectionality has been something that's always been there. We've just never had a word for it. And we also never gave people permission to. Uh, acknowledge their own or to see other people's until now. Yeah. So when you see it as like, it's almost like an accumulation.
Mm-hmm. It's like an accumulation of like different factors. Like if you are a woman, you have probably more hurdles to jump than most men, but if you're a black woman who's also disabled, who is also transgender, yeah. There's gonna be a lot of barriers, um, financially or, um, yeah, to living your life.
Barriers, stress things to worry about, things to overcome, things to consider.
Yeah.
And I, I think that's one of the things that, um, is one of the aha moments I've had because I've never thought of myself as like, because I'm a woman, I couldn't do things, but it's when I heard, um. A guy was talking about how he goes on a date versus a woman, because to me it was like, yeah, of course you tell your friend and of course you have a phone and of course you don't meet them at their house.
Like they were all just like, of course. But I'm like, wait, like all that shit I have to do, like you don't have to do. Yeah. So like, make sure you don't get murdered. Right. You know, don't worry about that. Right. And so it was, it was all the considerations I had to put into that I had to think about that was just like, yeah, of course that's how it works.
But it doesn't have to be that way. And it's like such a simple thing, I think to use as an example, because it's such an obvious one that people can get pretty quickly. And if anyone is a woman or knows a woman, they've probably experienced that in some capacity. But we forget that that happens for everyone, right?
If you're a black man driving in your car, 'cause a whole bunch of considerations that you make. To avoid being pulled over that I don't even think about. Yeah. And already as a woman, I'm like, if you get pulled over, make sure it's in a public place. Keep driving If you need to pull into a gas station, like it might, there's already things I have to consider as a woman, but I don't, there's a whole other layer of considerations that I don't even know.
I dunno that you Yeah.
It's
the what We don't know that we
dunno.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, so what, what made you jump from wanting to be a graphic designer solely mm-hmm. To wanting to move into this art therapy space.
Yes. Okay. So that's another sort of long and arduous journey. Part of the journey. I randomly.
Had this opportunity to teach art at a continuation school in Englewood to kids that were basically kicked out of Los Angeles Unified School District for bad behavior. And I'm using air quotes here, um, but it was so easy for me to see that their bad behavior was a result of the challenges that they were facing in their communities and in their lives.
Having incarcerated parents or having been incarcerated themselves. There was like this 8-year-old kid that had been through juvie and he had a really rough story. Um, and so I saw how important the arts were to supporting these kids with emotional challenges. And this was before I'd even heard of art therapy specifically, but I'd always approached the arts, um, as a way to facilitate.
Personal reflection essentially, or creative thinking, just thinking outside of the limitations of what they saw possible for themselves. And I felt so enlivened leading these classes that I continued to pursue them over several years. And I think part of me, oh, well a lot of it is like I wanted to get away from the computer.
Mm-hmm. Because I love design and I love working with entrepreneurs, but I hate sitting on the computer. So unfortunately design is a lot of sitting on a computer. And I kept like overthinking everything, like every little pixel. Um, and I think also a big part of it was that I think I care too much.
Mm-hmm. Which, and I should, I guess. I'm gonna say it because it's what happened, but I wasn't charging enough. As many, as many conversations that we have about like, charge your worth, I felt like my heart wasn't entirely in it, and I would be afraid of days where I wake up and I don't, I don't feel creative.
I don't wanna design, and I was afraid to charge people because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to deliver.
Mm-hmm. Um,
within whatever timeline. Or what if I would have these like creative blocks and what if I have a creative block on their particular project and I deliver garbage and like, or like, I, I just, I, I'm so like emotionally invested in everything I do, and that's not always conducive to being a business person or designer.
I think it's also what made me really good at being a designer because client sense that I do really care. Mm-hmm. But sometimes I care and I can't just, like, if I'm stuck, I'm so stuck. Yeah. Um. And luckily now it's so interesting 'cause since I've kind of transitioned to doing less design, I don't get stuck anymore.
And I also have a lot more strategies for pushing through creative blocks. Um, and a lot of it is just psychological. There was so much perfectionism going on in my own psyche mm-hmm. Um, that it was debilitating so
well, and I think for a lot of designers, um, often graphic designers or designers of any kind are working with people who don't speak design at all.
And I do a lot of translating between my clients and who they're working with because I've had the privilege of getting to go to design school myself and do a lot of creative jobs, or always being the person who was on a team with the designer. And even you. And I like the flow of how we work.
Sometimes I'm like. You'll be like, listen. I'm like, no, just I know it's painful. I know you wanna do more. I'm like, just change the color and we're done. Just get it done. Yeah. And just, yeah, just be able to tell you like, it's okay to only give 1% to this project because it's not a make it or break it. And often when you're getting design work from people who don't understand that, they just ask what they want and walk away.
There isn't the collaboration or they can't even prioritize it effectively because, you know, we, we, it brought, it came up in the special event that we did with all the creatives of how to be creative, successful, and fabulous. You asked someone to move one thing to the left. Mm-hmm. And you have to touch everything else.
Like, you're always asking me for the exact copy, and I'm like, I don't have it right now. Here's a rough guide. And I know that, that you hate that because if the, if the character count in the sentence shifts, you're gonna have to shift it right. Yeah. So thank you for, you know, going along with me when I'm like, just do a first draft.
Um, but it's, it's hard. It's like there's a lot of pressure that creatives and artists put on themselves and all the more reason to, if you're in that field, to really be, uh, particular about who you choose to work with.
Yeah, absolutely. It is nice to get to that place where you can say no to clients. I know in the same meeting or the same panel that we keep referencing, people were talking about how nice it is to get to that point where you're not saying yes to literally anything because you're like, so desperately need money.
Yes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think you and I also have a really great. Sort of back and forth where we know at this point, especially when to push mm-hmm. And when to kind of like, just go with it. And you've taught me a lot about how so much of the time, it's more important to just get it out than to have this perfect product.
Where before I didn't want anyone to see it. Anything I'm working on until it's sparkling and perfect. And perfect. Yeah. Doesn't actually exist. And it's, is like this unattainable goal that I was pulling my hair out, striving for every time, you know? Um, so it's nice to like, chill out a little bit. Yes. And like, just get something out there and then mm-hmm.
You, you know, there's always gonna be, um, a process, like a feedback process later. Mm-hmm. Like once the thing is out, you can still change it. Like it can be ever evolving.
Yeah. Especially for things that are being used for. In the digital spaces, social media or websites, because we can change it in a second.
Yeah. If we want to. Yeah. And often that stuff gets seen and goes back into the ether of, of what, what humanities created. So, you know, of course there's more time and thought that needs to go into a branding kit than everyday graphics because it's just like it gets to a churn and burn place. It's like when people used to make t-shirt graphics, they'd be like, whatever, you're gonna pick five.
Here's like 15 shoes. Like, I'm not attached anymore. But that's a hard thing to learn as somebody working in your passion. I've even had colleagues who, when we, I worked in skateboarding who were professional skateboarders and then left working in the industry because they couldn't UNT attach themselves from like the everyday.
Things that needed to happen and they would just be frustrated all the time. 'cause like some idiot was telling them what to do, who knew nothing about skateboarding.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That, that, that some idiot was kind of like a big part of why I wanted to get out of the corporate world too, and out of agencies and even out of the music industry.
Mm-hmm. Um, I feel like I've worked in a lot of different industries, um, and it bugs me when people are just in it for the money and aren't mm-hmm. Emotionally invested or really like, thoughtful. And I think that there's, it's important to have a balance of like really caring about the product that you're putting out into the world and also stepping back a little bit with the perfectionism mm-hmm.
And being overly emotionally attached to whatever it's you're working on. Yeah. Like even as a future therapist, I can't be emotionally attached to my clients' outcomes. Um, I can't really take credit for their progress, nor can I fully take credit for their FA failures either. Mm-hmm. Because they're not me.
Yeah. They're not.
It's
that I get, I mean yeah. As a coach, right? Yeah. I take full credit for everyone's successes. Um, happily. Yeah. Okay. But, um, you can take credit for my
successes.
Yay. Um, no, but I, I, I, that's, you know, I choose not to, if someone's not producing the results that we're committed to as a team, I do.
To me it's not about taking it on as like I'm failing. It is just something's not working and we have to figure out what's not working. Yeah. If they're killing it, then like, yes, we need to celebrate that. Everyone should, we need to all take credit for it. And then, but the hardest part for me as a coach is.
Um, seeing people's potential, whether they're clients or not, and having to give them space to not want to achieve their potential. It's beyond frustrating and yeah, that's, you know, that's where I have to de like, I have to let that go a lot more than anything else. I have to let go be, and because I have to honor someone's journey, I have to honor where they're at.
I have to remember that everyone doesn't see the world the way that I do, and everyone doesn't want more than they have, even though everyone's capable. Like it's, um, it's the hardest thing that I have to do in my life.
Yeah. Every day. Absolutely. Yeah. I've learned too that sometimes you have to let the person flounder even at like your friend, like you're trying to support.
Anyone they ha you, like, you can't come up with solutions for them, even though we're obviously like 10 steps ahead already every time. But that doesn't help them. Yeah. Like you knowing doesn't help them know. Yeah. Like you can just plant the seeds and give them as much support and love that they need to thrive.
Mm-hmm.
And get through whatever phase they're in. Hopefully it's a phase where they don't believe in themselves, or they're using substances, for example. Um, and not fulfilling their potential. But I, I feel you on the pain of watching people in your life, clients or personal, not fulfilling on potential. I think that's like one of my most irk irksome.
Some things. 'cause I think that's such a big commitment for me is for myself and for others, is fulfilling on our, each of our human potentials.
Yeah. And it doesn't, it's not about, and I know that you agree, uh, um, with me on this. It's, it's not about like people making all this money. It's not about people achieving all these crazy achievements.
It's seeing people who aren't, who feel stuck or frustrated or unhappy, or like, they're just in this whirlpool. Yeah. And you're like, just jump. Just jump. Just leave, walk away from the whirlpool. And they're like, I can't.
You're just like, yeah. And then they complain about this whirlpool over. Yes. And over and over and over and over.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it was, I didn't, um, it's really interesting how I have to go back. And I have to be true to myself often in coaching more than anything else. 'cause sometimes I just want to yell at someone even, you know, just someone who's being idiot. And I'm like, you know what? Yeah. And, and there are moments when like, I'll, I'll try and do it gently.
I'll try and give them space. I'll try and ask the question and finally I'll be like, can I be real with you? You're being an idiot right now. And they're like, but it's that, that's what it takes some time to like knock somebody off. And it was a, it being someone who was raised to be polite, it was a weird thing for me to step in and just tell people like, you're being an idiot.
Like, cut the shit out.
But Kara, you are still so polite. Even when you, if you say you're being an idiot, you do it with such compassion, honestly. It's not like a hateful, you're an idiot. You know what I mean? I think, yeah. Uh, honestly, like the way that you communicate. With so much, um, grace is actually like, is a really inspiring thing for me.
Like I pick up little, little golden nuggets because I, in a, in a Russian growing up in a Russian family, polite communication is not part of my upbringing. And I've gotten in so much trouble my entire life for being too blunt because it's, it's simply a cultural difference. And I didn't realize quite how much of a cultural difference it was until this year.
Um, and I saw how much having this like bicultural identity, um, feeds into my communication style. And why in Southern California as a very blunt person, it's not widely received because everyone just thinks that like, I'm a bitch. And so I was just super misunderstood because every time I've been a bitch mm-hmm.
I'm saying these words because this, there was some. Trauma, traumatic situations in middle school where I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing by being honest. Mm-hmm. Because that was my ultimate sort of like, commitment goal. Yeah. Yeah. Honesty. Like there's nothing better than honesty. And I didn't have any tact and I didn't realize that like, oh, I probably shouldn't say that to people, but like, I felt so misunderstood.
Mm-hmm. And that led to me, um, it led to, I would basically like abandon groups of friends for a while because I thought that they would abandon me. So I would like, I had trouble, um, relating to groups of females for a long time because of that, because of being misunderstood. And then I ended up. Being more of like, not a tomboy, but like it's very easy for me to talk to groups of dudes.
I have no problem with it, but I'm still working on like my shyness with groups of women because I used to compare myself to them and think that I wasn't good enough and they would reject me. And it's so nice acknowledging my progress at this point where I'm like, oh no, I'm dope. And other women are also dope and we're not in competition with each other.
And um, we all bring our individual strengths and I think that's also. Why I'm a part of this team.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So you mentioned earlier that that social justice really matters to you and you spend a lot of mental capacity on this. Oh my God. What, what, um, what makes it so important to you, and why, why is that where you're spending so much of your, of your, you know, brain power?
Yeah. So part of it is the internship I'm in currently, my, like clinical counseling. Internship is part of nonprofit organization, which works with, um, people that have been incarcerated for decades. And it's a community transitional program that helps them get on their feet and lower recidivism rates. Um, so of course most of the people I work with in this program are black men.
Um. And I think what really gets me about it is the, just like the systemic inequity that gets people to the place where they're committing crimes in the first place. Mm-hmm. Um, and this of course comes from my lived experience of having worked experie with my students. So the 8-year-old student that I mentioned earlier, he, here, here's, here's an example.
Of why I care so much. Um, and this like inequity Illustrated is this kid, he was this like prophetic little guy. He seemed like such a wise little human. He was like eight or nine or something when I met him. And he was in juvie. He almost was killed in juvie. And the reason he was in juvie is because he got caught stealing.
He was stealing because him and his mom were homeless and living in their car. Um, because she had just gotten outta a domestic violence situation. And I think that a lot of. The crimes that are committed. Not all of them, but a lot of them, it's like, well, why are these people in this situation in the first place?
And then you trace it back a step and it's because of community and systemic inequities that, you know, you can go back and watch the documentaries. Watch 15th if you haven't watched 15th. Um, about 15th do you? 13th. Oh my gosh. That's why I'm an artist, because I'm horrible with numbers. Okay. 13th, watch.
13th. Don't listen to Anna.
So, but like, why, why is an 8-year-old going to juvie? Like why is an 8-year-old not Yeah. Getting a mentor Or why is an 8-year-old not having the opportunity to, don't they have to don't think community.
Yeah. Like the community supports in the f Yeah. Yeah. To,
yeah.
Yeah. All of it.
Um, but I'm so cur, I know that you don't know like his official like case file, but no. If an eight, if I was eight and I was caught stealing, nothing would happen. Yep. Yeah. So how much candy have you stolen as an 8-year-old? I, I can tell you I was a really good, a good, so I don't even, I think there was like one time that I tried to steal 'cause it was like I was trying to see if I could be bad and I couldn't do it.
So that's a whole other me to be thing. Oh yeah.
No, that's good. Maybe you didn't feel the need to have to like rebel. I felt like I had to rebel actually. I was a very good kid, but come, come being a teenager. Sorry mom. Oh man.
But even then, like if I, if I had stolen as a kid, if I was caught, they would've called my parents.
I would've gotten yelled at. I might've had to do something for the store to make up for it or. Done something, but like, I never would've as, like, I wouldn't have correlated any kid stealing the first time mm-hmm. Under 10 to going to juvie or jail. Yep.
Yeah. And yeah, like, again, I don't know the extent of what he did.
Mm-hmm. Um, but, uh, all I know is that when people do criminal things, there's always a reason for it. And if their frontal lobe isn't fully formed yet, the decision making part of their brain, or like higher level decision making, how, like, I don't think punitive justice is mm-hmm. Useful. It basically, it's a model that instills fear.
And there time and time again, studies have shown that that's not the most effective way to promote change in
people. Mm-hmm.
Um, so
it's hard. Yeah. It, it, I mean, I, it's. I think everyone feels safer when somebody who's committing rape or murder is not on the street. Yeah. But then the number of people who are in jail for not those two crimes.
Yeah. Like, you know, there's a reason why we have like white collar jail versus every other one and it's like, well wait, just 'cause somebody stole or, you know, committed a fraud in a financial setting or in a business setting. Like it's still the same motivation as somebody who steals from your house.
Like, why is one more or less dangerous?
Right. Oh man, there's so much. I'm like, I don't even know where to, what to say. There's so many points in my brain. Is ping ponging to so many places right now? One is about capitalism is the
problem.
No, I'm
not gonna say that. Um. Capitalism and consumerism are different.
That's one of my thinks. Right? So you can, you can disagree with me, but it's the, they all, they both can cause separate problems, but typically it's the, it's the greed of consumerism that ends up impact. Like that's what pulls so much of capitalism over.
I think greed ultimately, I think a lot about like the human condition and why mm-hmm.
Things are so inequitable in the entire world, including in this country. And I think greed is at the foundation of it. Like the huge income disparity or wealth to wealth gap. Yeah. I think that's ultimately like my biggest personal factor with social justice or even environmental justice is that it all comes down to human greed throughout all of human history.
Like, why are we like this? That's almost like, that's also a part of why I wanted to be a psychologist is I've always been trying to, since I was like a child, just trying to figure out why are some people cruel? Yeah. And like seeing like the, the trauma of like why hurt people hurt people is one thing.
Mm-hmm. But then the greed part that I'm still trying to figure that one out, so
let me know. Yeah. If you have answers. Well, and it starts, so like I know that a lot of people got triggered by the dress that a OC wore at the Met Gala of like mm-hmm. The tax rich, tax, the rich, and, and it's because there's tip often people who have a lot of money have worked their ass off to get it right.
But it starts w it starts, the greed part starts before then. It's not like it. You, you know, um, pick an entrepreneur or pick somebody who's making a large income. They're not often, they're not like, move outta my way. And like, they're not the stereotypical, capitalistic, greed person. Mm-hmm. They've just worked their ass off and they've made choices that have allowed them to make the money that they've made.
But the system is broken in the sense that there's, there's no, the financial inequalities, especially in the US from my perspective, are that we assume everyone has the fair chance and everyone's capable of the same achievements and that you don't need to share.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And it's like, wait a second.
Like if I have a birthday cake, I'm not going to eat it all by myself. That would be weird. And that would be not the reason to have a birthday cake and. There was a meme going around about like Bernie Sanders and someone used that analogy and he's like, yeah, of course. Like who? Who eats their own birthday cake completely by themselves.
Like, that's weird. Mm-hmm. So why wouldn't you be okay giving slices away to, to somebody else if it helps them? And we've maxed out our, our, the number of people we can have in our tribes or our compassion levels go down so far. Like we create this us versus them thing. And it's like them is like, someone's calling my brother the them them the them.
Yeah. Who's the them? Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. I'm just picking on
my brother. But like, well, it also, anybody, for me, it conjures up that visual of people standing at a fence trying to look over the fence. Right? And it's like some people are taller and some people are shorter. And so giving the shorter people the same stack of books as the taller people isn't gonna get them over the fence.
So we're talking like the set point of the race inequality or financial inequality. If like their set point is down here, they're gonna need more books. Mm-hmm. To step on to get anywhere near that level. And also when we're saying Tax the Rich, I feel like we're talking billionaires, right? Like there's not a ton of self-made billionaires that just made it all on their own without having generational wealth that helped them get to that place.
You know what I mean? And even if they made it on their own and it's because of merit or whatever, which I don't know how true that is. They
still should pay taxes. Well, I, it's like it. Well, and, and and sometimes it's them paying taxes isn't the issue. Right. Because if they were paid a salary, they would be paying taxes.
It's how businesses are taxed the corporation. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and listen, like, I don't know why we have to make it so hard. Like why can't there just be a flat tax? Like, why can't it just be 10% across the board? Thank you. Goodbye. Like, let's stop asking all these questions. Um, because anyone who's smart is going to use the system to their advantage.
So it's like, can you hate the play or do you hate the game? And I think in this situation, I hate the
game.
Yeah.
I hate the game. I like, it drives me crazy. In fact. I feel like we should take a moment for self care.
Stops exhausting. I need to, I'm like working on when learning when to fight mm-hmm. And when to, again, like similar to the when to be a perfectionist. Mm-hmm. When to just like get it done and it's like when to fight for all of the injustices I see. And when to just take a walk and, yeah. Yeah. It gets a little overwhelming with all of the, all of the causes.
I'm scared of taking this podcast like
down that rabbit hole further. Well, that's okay. 'cause we, sorry,
listeners.
No, well, I have other questions for you 'cause um, we only have a fixed number of time on this one episode. So, you know, when you hear the words Powerful ladies, what do they mean to you independently?
And does their definition, definition change when they're combined into powerful ladies together?
Yeah, I, I think it does change so powerful in the context of all the social justice stuff we've been talking about is literally the people that have the power and they don't even always know that they have the power, right?
Mm-hmm. And from an intersectionality lens that is gonna be white, cis, male, heterosexual, Christian, um, et cetera. Mm-hmm. And power, power is like. Having the autonomy to make whatever decisions for yourself, I think in your life. Um, women, women is,
I'm thinking of like sacred feminine energy when I think women
mm-hmm.
Thinking there's, there's still a power there though, but it's like a softer power. It's a nurturing power. It's, um, it's more, it's a lot more quiet. It's this quiet, leading. On a more energetic level, sounds super woo woo. And then powerful ladies are ladies that I think break the mold of what societally expected.
It's ladies that are asking why, why are things this way? And how can they be better? Um, yeah, how, how, how have power and also taking the action. Mm-hmm. They, oh, it's also women that stand out for themselves.
Mm-hmm.
And powerful, powerful ladies. Powerful. Just like really getting into the world of powerful ladies.
Well, I know that you have lots of powerful ladies in your life as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How have, and you've been one of our. You know, biggest advocates for getting the powerful ladies in your life on this podcast. So thank you for all those introductions. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, but how have the powerful ladies in your life shaped and directed who you are today and where you're going?
And like how Yeah, just like what type of an impact have they made for you?
Um, I was thinking about this question last night and I realized that a lot of the most influential women in my life are people that are very self-motivated. Um, they're like the kind of people that get shit done. In on top of that, there's a resilience that when things go wrong, I notice that the people that I admire most bounce back really quickly.
Um, that I, I don't know if that's a quality that I identify in myself, but it's a quality that I admire and strive for in others is that resiliency. Um, so I think that's how they inspire me. And also a lot of the women that I admire do have this sort of like edge to them. Like there's, there's a discernment.
There's. A humor that like, we're comfortable with inappropriate humor and swearing, like dirty pirates and, and like, there isn't like this fluffy, like, I, I feel like the women that I admire most aren't like very delicate and soft. They aren't like, oh my God, stop. Mm-hmm. And like, no offense to women that are like, oh my God, stop.
But I, I, I like, I like me an assertive woman. I think it's, 'cause my mom was very much that way. Like she always taught, she didn't take shit from anybody. She always taught us to stand up for ourselves, which is interesting 'cause I was actually very, very, very shy as a child. And I like didn't even make eye contact with people until I was about like 25.
Seriously. It's interesting. Um. But yeah, I think that I've honestly grown into that type of woman that I strive to be because I wasn't always like this. I wasn't always assertive. And
I mean, I just, I, I have such a vivid memory of like the first time I met you and I almost feel like it's a different person Yeah.
Than who you are today. Yeah. Like I, yeah. I don't know if, I can't imagine the two of you being in the same place at the same time actually. So interesting.
Mm-hmm. I do kind of almost like on a spiritual level, like to talk to that person and like give that person love because that, that self doubting person, it's still in there and I just have to like tend to her because she certainly comes up, right?
Like yeah, for sure she's in there. But like I feel like she feels a lot more secure in the world now and in her talents and you know, it's not like every day is get up and go by any means, but I think I've been through enough. I've been past enough downs where I've gotten back up time and time again that I can see now that if I'm in like a lower point in my life mm-hmm.
That I will get past it.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
Well, and I, and I think it brings up to me how, um, like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs of, of feeling secure, that sense, that sense of safety and security matters so much before we can have the next level of conversation. And even for people who are really powerful and everyone has the same amount of power within them, we don't feel comfortable using it if we're not in a, if we don't feel safe.
And it can be, you know, based on Big T, little T Trauma, it can be based on a situational thing that's going on. Mm-hmm. Um. But we, we don't always address, like, I'm not feeling safe and protected right now, or I'm not feeling grounded in the way that I need to so that I can stand tall. And, um, it's, it's just really interesting to me to kind of see how that's showing up for different people and yeah, we can't expect people to fight for themselves, but they don't feel safe.
Yes.
I think that is also a really foundational piece to what brought me to wanting to be a therapist, is that I saw how much self-expression is such like a commitment for me, for everyone to have, because I, like, I'd always seen myself as a very expressive and creative person, but I didn't feel safe in my own self expression.
I didn't like, I was so timid. Um, and I wanna help everyone I can. Especially young fellow young creative women. Yeah. Um, to get out of that, like, the way, like I, it sometimes, like I see people stopping themselves from expressing it. It's almost like there's like something caught in their throat and I'm like, I just wanna shake them.
Not really, not gonna shake them. Maybe a little bit, just a little, just a little shake. Just a little shake. I, I think maybe like a little bit of tender love is probably better than, like, an aggressive shake, but, um, yeah. I feel like so many women especially gets like, they're afraid to speak, to really be truthful and honest and authentic.
Um, and I feel like it's so, I, I just, I wanna model for everyone. Mm-hmm. Not that they, yeah. Not that I want them to be like me, but I wanna model for them. That it's okay to express what's on their mind or to express their emotions or express, just be expressive of whatever their self-expression looks like.
And it's okay to be all the
things at once. Ooh, yeah. That's a big one too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. When we like try to like categorize ourselves. And I've, I finally have recently given up on that. I've decided it is impossible, like on like a lot of the personality tests, I'm like somewhere in the middle on things.
Yeah. And I, I just, I give up on trying to figure it out at this point, like I'm 35 and I'm like, I'm good. I, I know who I am. I'm, I'm a me. Oh, I'm a me.
Well, that's a perfect segue into where you put yourself on the powerful lady scale. Um, if zero is average everyday human and 10 is most powerful lady you've ever met.
Where would you put yourself today and where do you think you would put yourself on average?
I think today I feel like a 7.5 because, um, there's so many days where I feel really tired, but I think that despite those days, I, I know that I've accomplished a lot of different things over time and I know that there's so many more things that I wanna contribute to this world. Um, but I feel. I have enough trust in myself to get there.
I just, just wish that I had more energy. Mm-hmm. And more time. Um, and then five, yeah, five, 5.75 today because I feel like I haven't been articul, like I feel like I haven't been speaking, haven't as much clarity as I would've liked to. Um, so that's just my own discernment about how I would like to show up.
Well,
we're, we're all our own worst critics, right? I know. Yeah. So you are. Getting this degree for art therapy. You're a freelance graphic designer for myself and a handful of other people. You are doing this internship helping people reintegrate back into society who have been in, you know, in jailed for long periods of time.
Mm-hmm. You're doing all these fun art projects. Like if people want to talk to you, hang out with you, connect with you, where can they do it and how can they find you?
Yep. Um, so I think Instagram is the easiest place to find me. I'm at Glitter Forest, just amazing, like a sparkly forest. I've been glitter forest since my undergrad.
It was like. How do you define your practice? And I'm like, Hmm. It's like a little bit of sparkle, like glitter. It's kind of like obnoxious, but also awesome. And then forest, because I do really value, um, the natural world and the healing powers of the natural world, and I feel like that's stuck. So glitter forest.
Um, yeah, find me on Instagram. Um, I think by the time this episode airs, I'm gonna say this so that I can hold myself accountable, but I am starting an email list, um, for when I do online workshops again, like mm-hmm. Expressive arts therapy online workshops. Um, and if you sign up for my email newsletter, you get an awesome freebie.
About how to use creative practices in your personal healing. Um, Ooh. Yeah.
It's not, and they can find, they can sign up through your Instagram account. There's a link in bio. Yes. Um,
and my email will also be in the show notes, right? Per Yes, it will. You know what we do around here? I, I've listened to this
podcast before Uhhuh, you know, well, Anna, it is always a pleasure for me to get to spend time with you.
I love that you are so many things all into one and they all make sense 'cause you are just making the world a better place through all the things that you care about. And I agree with what you said earlier of you wouldn't be able to be the compassionate understanding. Creative that you are, if you weren't emotionally connected to your clients and you weren't asking why.
You know, like, I am also a why person, which has also gotten me into trouble often. Yeah. And I don't know why more people are afraid to ask why. Like, you know, it's, when I was living in Germany, I was shocked at how infrequently people asked why when they were told to do something. And I'm like, I think that's what got you guys in trouble in the first place was nobody was asking why.
So maybe we should do more of it, but,
yeah. Well, I think that's how any innovation happens too, right? Like if we just settle for whatever status quo, then nothing would progress. Mm. There wouldn't be any inventions there wouldn't. I think like it's a very creative standpoint to come from asking why or mm-hmm.
You know? Yeah.
Yeah. It. It just, why? Because if people don't ha, if people don't know how to answer that question and they get mad about it, it has nothing to do with you asking the question. It's all about them not having the answer. And I don't know why anyone should do anything if they don't have that kind of answer sorted out.
'cause they just ha there's, and this is my personal argument for like, strategy doesn't have to be complicated, but it needs to be done. And ultimately that's where it starts. And you know, when we talk about how do we do less in the world, often if we have a why behind it, we can actually do less, buy less, all the things.
So the secret to con Maureen, everything is asking why. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well I'm very excited because what everyone listening doesn't know is that on Monday after the day, we've recorded this, not when it's being released, but you and I and the rest of the Kara Duffy powerful ladies team get to huddle and do all of our strategy for 2022.
Yeah. And I love that because, um, you are one of my favorite collaborators. 'cause you care so much and you get to hold me accountable when you're like, um, you're forgetting about these commitments or you're forgetting about these people. Or let's slow down and make this cooler. Yeah. Because I like to rush.
Yeah. Like really honing our vision in what makes us distinct. And I think that slight hint of badassery and the asking why it is that little bit of like, like we're not fluffy. There's an edge. There's like the action sports edge. There's the, there's a little bit of like, I dunno, whatever
powerful ladies we can save this for tomorrow.
Yeah. Because 'cause powerful ladies can. They can be smoking hot, but like cute is not a word that you would ever call a powerful lady. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. So it's just like, yeah. It's, it's that balance. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And I think also it's like not doing what everyone else is doing just because everything else, everyone else is doing it.
I think that is where the why comes in.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because you, that's what makes the, why make shows you how you're the unicorn, which actually gives us the real story that we can talk about. Mm-hmm. Yes. Unicorn. Well, Anna Unicorn, Anna, thank you so much. We're always gonna be unicorn together. Thank you so much.
Yep. As always for being a yes to me and this podcast, and finally coming on for your own exclusive episode. And I'm really excited about where you're going because. I feel better about the world knowing that you are doing the work that you're doing and that you're gonna be out there helping people even more than you have so far.
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much, Kara.
Thank you for listening to today's episode. All the links to connect with Anna are in her show notes@thepowerfulladies.com slash podcast. You can also leave comments and questions about the episode there. If you want more powerful ladies, come and join us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies. There are free downloads to start being more powerful today, and if you subscribe and rate this podcast ideally with five stars, thank you.
Um, it'll help us attract more listeners like you who need to hear these stories. If you wanna connect with me, please visit kara duffy.com or follow me on Instagram, Kara Duffy. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Instagram: @glitterforest
Website: annaolinova.com
LinkedIn: annaolinova
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
