Episode 16: Building Thriving Teams from the Start | Katie Hajec | Director of Talent & Culture at Create Tribe
Katie Hajec knows that strong teams don’t happen by accident. They’re built with intention from day one. As Director of Talent & Culture for LA startup Create Tribe, she’s on a mission to create workplaces where people can grow, contribute, and actually enjoy coming to work. From hiring the right people to shaping culture, Katie blends HR expertise with a deep commitment to human development. In this conversation, we get into the shifts happening in the HR world, the mindset leaders need to keep their teams motivated, and why core values matter more than ever. We also talk about the practical side of building culture — from interview questions that actually work to avoiding burnout as a leader.
“You can’t care about 15 things every day as a leader. You just can’t. You can care about your employees, how they are, how they’re doing and what’s moving the needle forward on your projects.”
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Meet Katie Hajec and Create Tribe
01:12 From Reno to leading in Los Angeles
03:00 What “Talent & Culture” means today
05:20 Why hiring the right people is step one
07:15 Building employee experience from scratch
09:40 The shift from traditional HR to human development
12:00 Radical candor and better communication at work
14:15 Avoiding burnout while leading a team
16:30 The three to five things leaders should focus on daily
18:40 Balancing startup demands with employee well-being
21:00 Why core values are a leader’s greatest tool
23:15 How to create a culture of trust and accountability
25:30 Interview questions that reveal the real fit
27:45 Advice for anyone stepping into a leadership role
30:00 Katie’s vision for the future of work
You can't care about 15 things every day as a business person or leadership person, you just can't. You can care about your employees, how they are, how they're doing, and what's moving the needle forward across your project.
That's Katie Hajec, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Hey guys. I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something, and the extraordinary to come and share their story. These are people that inspire me and remind me that everything is possible. I hope that you will be left entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Katie Hajec is the Director of Talent and Culture for an LA startup. When you're launching a new business, navigating the classic HR responsibilities can be really challenging, especially when there's so much other work to do. We're so focused on finding funding or getting the first prototype back that when you start having to think about your mission statement and your values and you know, maybe you're ready to hire your first person, it gets really overwhelming.
I get so many questions from. Uh, consulting clients as well as people writing in through the powerful ladies.com about HR related topics. I'm so excited she's on this episode, so we can dive into that and discuss, you know, her commitment to employee development, what new businesses need to know, and how to start off on the right foot.
All that's coming up. But first, are you looking for a way that you can be part of the Powerful Ladies Ambassador program? Well, you are in luck. We're currently looking for women who wanna host our one Day of giving events as part of our charity campaign that supports women for women.org. It's really simple to figure out how to host.
We send you a full host kit with all the details that you need and all the resources, and of course, we support you along the way. Powerful ladies, one day of giving events are an opportunity for you to have fun, connect with your community, and make a difference in the lives of women around the world.
These events do not need to be big. They should be like small, simple, easy things that you enjoy doing from your, the yoga class that you teach, to the dinner party that you love to have to even going to your local like paint and wine, uh, location and ask if they wanna co-host with you. You invite your friends, they provide the space.
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Thank you for coming to the Powerful Ladies podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited
to be here, Kara. Yes, so, so, so happy to support this.
Awesome. So let's start by you introducing yourself and what you're up to.
Hi everyone. My name is Katie Hajek and I am, gosh, I'm up to a lot of things it feels like lately. My title, so to speak, is Director of Talent and Culture with Create Tribe, and we are based here in Los Angeles.
We're a brand development company. I oversee what I would probably describe as employee experience initiatives with regard to human resources and benefits, enrollment and all of those fun things. But then what I'm probably a bit more passionate about is why people are motivated to work for the company, bringing in the right people, recruiting.
Overseeing their development as humans within the company and ultimately making the company successful. Um, so that's kind of what I'm doing on a day to day, every single day. And, you know, in addition to, you know, catching up on my Judge Judy episodes, IDVR, but that's a whole other episode. So
you and my mother?
Yes. Mm-hmm.
There we go. Yes. Okay. Perfect.
I, I appreciate when she will quote, uh, some legal logic to me and say like, like, especially when we've been renting. Mm-hmm. You need a contract with your roommates, judge Judy says, so see, speaking of
powerful ladies,
I mean Yeah, it's true. You should, if you have contracts and everything, it just keeps things clean.
Oh, keep it in,
have it in writing. Mm-hmm. Yep. I know Laws of Life by Judge Judy, and it works for what you do as a day-to-day basis. It, I mean, it really does. Yeah. It's like, have it in writing.
So, so, uh, I know you because mm-hmm. Uh, I worked with you at Creat Tribe. Mm-hmm. And we, I would say hit it off pretty quickly.
Uh, I really loved the, uh, leadership team that was there. And for one of the first times in my life, I felt like I was working with peers who were there for the right reasons. Mm-hmm. And it, um, I really took that away as, as one of my highlights of when I worked there and just really knowing that you work in other corporations and there's all the layers and the nonsense and the political stuff, and the fact that I could just call you and we could just figure something out.
Mm-hmm. And it wasn't a big deal. And we were committed to caring about people in the same way was so refreshing. Um, and when I thought about. The type of people that I wanted to have on this podcast, I instantly thought of you because you worry about people every day to a point where people don't even know what you're worried about.
And it's so hard to balance being a representative of a corporate space and also equally representing the individuals in the corporation and knowing that, you know, you get put in hard places because of that. You've worked in a lot of startups, and when you look at who works in an organization, HR gets put into the same bucket as like finance and accounting, where it doesn't occur as glamorous.
And it's so important. And like there's so much more to you than you know, like you're not the average HR representative. Mm-hmm. And your title isn't, is like bigger than that, right? Because it should be. And I think that there's so much opportunity to talk about how you approach that and what that means, and.
It's come up so often lately with the business clients I'm working with who are starting or going to from sole proprietorship to having employees. It's an area that no one knows enough about.
Y yeah, I mean, I think that you mentioned a few really, really critical and important topics, um, in terms of how HR is developing right now and what needs to change.
And also I think too, the, just multi-layers of the employee experience within a growing company, or I should say a successfully growing company. Um, and what leadership really needs to focus on in order to. Uh, direct their, the right people who I, I, I trust in the hiring process. I really do, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that, but really I think like that's the first responsibility is hiring the right people.
Then the real responsibility start within. Grooming them and directing them towards like, you know, the success of the company and how do we do that as a company? How do we do that as leadership? It's like a question. I think all of us continuously ask ourselves, you know, are we doing the right things? How do we do this better?
We learn as we go. So yeah, it's a, it's a multifaceted, you know, sort of an endeavor, the whole HR world. And, um, yeah, I'm just, I'm really excited that we're having these conversations out because I think that it's necessary, it's timely and it's ultimately only gonna benefit all of us as, you know, entrepreneurs and as you know, business people, and as people who care about the, the sort of growth those, you know, women opportunities in society as a whole.
So. Mm-hmm. Before we get into all the, that fun stuff mm-hmm. Um, I love to start by asking our guests to give us the rundown from. Let's say zero to 20. Mm-hmm. Where'd you grow up? What was it like, what were, what were your big moments in that time period? Oh, well, I, I
mean, shoot, I, I grew up in Reno, Nevada, which is as many, many know, as the biggest little city in the world.
Um, which it's just a, it was a really, really cool place to grow up. Um, my mother was born and raised here in Los Angeles. My dad was from upstate New York. And so us kind of having this sort of neutral place to build a small family, I mean, we were, you know, just my immediate family of five in Reno. And, um, just kind of create our own experience there, which now as someone who's the age of my parents when they were raising us, I can look back and give them.
So much respect for doing that without help. Um, it was cool and we were able to just, you know, we played a lot of sports and it was, uh, a fun kind of very outdoorsy place, um, in high school. You know, got really, really involved in my journalism program. Started writing for a sports newspaper, which kind of melded two of my passions, writing in sports.
Um, but yeah, I eventually just really kind of started getting, diversifying my, my kind of loves for communication and got into, um, nonprofit community and I started working for a large nonprofit in Reno and I loved the fact that I could. Do, I could not only write, I could fundraise, I could public speak, I could connect with people for the benefit of a community.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, in your early twenties, you have limited opportunities, especially obviously like in a, in your hometown to reach people. But I still knew via that channel that that was an option. So when I just made the decision to move to Southern California, I was just looking for a different opportunity and, um, you know, quickly realized that I didn't necessarily have to do the same thing I'd been doing, which was development directing for, you know, like I said, nonprofits, but was kind of open to taking a chance.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I ran across a random Craigslist listing from, um, my now good friend I consider and, and current boss and, and the CEO of our former company. Mm-hmm. And. It was kind of for a role that was a little bit undefined. And I was, you know, I told two other companies, I would let them know Monday what I would do.
And these were like salaried benefits, director level titles, like very secure, which in, again, in your twenties, you're like, oh, this is amazing. Mm-hmm. In California, no less. And then so IF yeah. So I found the Craigslist thing for this random job in San Diego, and I was like, okay, I have no real idea, kind of what this is.
It's a, with a small digital marketing startup. And it just sounded really exciting. There was something in my gut
mm-hmm.
That felt right. And I sat, I will never forget this moment. I had already given my notice, like this was after a bottle of wine on Thanksgiving night with my sister, and I said, I'm moving to California.
Called my landlord, gave my notice, woke up the next morning and said, oh my gosh. I get to ski my notice last night. I need to move Uhhuh. Like I need a job. I need to move. So I did. And um, so I, you know, woke up on my mother's floor with my pajamas on, held out my iPhone and recorded a very short video. And I'm talking like, no makeup on hoodie.
Mm-hmm. Like, hi, this is me. This is why I think I could, you know, help your business and this is what I think the job means and you know, I'd love to get to know you. And we ended up, and I connected with Jeff, the CEO and um. You know, within a matter of two weeks was living in San Diego and joined this new venture.
And, you know, um, that led to where I am now. And there's obviously a, a long story there, but I think the, the theme of that and the moral of that story is just, you know, I kind of just trusted my gut and took a chance mm-hmm. And said, here's where I want to be. I don't know exactly Yeah. How to get there, but I'm just gonna like, throw out some feelers and see what happens.
So,
no, I think it's a great example of so many people want to live somewhere else, even if it's just to try it out. Mm-hmm. And you just decide you're going Yeah. And you go and there's so many ways to survive when you land somewhere. It'll might take a little while. It might be stressful, but there's always basic things that you can do to survive.
Mm-hmm. And it may not be at the level that you were surviving at before, but you're in that new place. Mm-hmm. And you're gonna meet people and find the next connection and keep going. Oh my gosh. When
I look back on that now I am. It's funny, you never give yourself credit at the time for what you're doing.
I can now look back on the choices I was making then with really No, there was no security. Mm-hmm. You know, and I did it all on my, on my own really. And I think that we are so hard on ourselves sometimes that we just never pay ourselves that respect in the moment. And then years later you're like, wow, girl,
Uhhuh,
you did it.
Like you just did that. Yeah.
Good for you. You know,
I remember when I got the phone call from a recruiter about moving to Germany. Mm-hmm. And the call caught me off guard. 'cause I wasn't expecting that to be part of the conversation. And the job that they were offering me at the time wasn't even what I was interested in.
And I was like, eh, but I'll have a conversation. Mm-hmm. And then the entire role changed by the time I ended up getting hired for it. But in the moment I just kept saying yes. Mm-hmm. Like, let's just keep talking, let's just see what happens next. Sure. I'll go for a visit. 'cause you don't know what's gonna come out of it.
And then what the next thing I know, I'm like, holy shit, I'm moving to Germany. Yeah. Um, mm-hmm. Okay. Wait, how long do I have to make to like pack everything up and sell things and figure it out and then, then the craziness starts, but. Then you just keep moving. Mm-hmm. Like it's, uh, I think sometimes we think too much and get paralyzed and not having the answers.
Mm-hmm.
When you're never gonna have them just jump. Exactly.
It's funny, like, I, I think I, I think about that a lot, the, this sort of negative aspects of overthinking. Um, and I think as we age and as we have life experience behind us and perspective, sometimes that happens more and more.
Mm-hmm.
You know, you think about when you were a child and your sort of instincts, they were very pure, but they were also.
I mean, they were very instinctual. Yeah. And that's why they're called instincts. It's, you know, they were driven by exactly what you feel inclined to do, what you feel your strengths to be, what you're interested in. And I think that as you age, all of those instincts, you know, become susceptible and to like these environmental, you know, um, impacts and things that you experience as people, which is, is okay.
I mean, that's mm-hmm. The, that's, that is life, you know? Yeah. And that is how we navigate. But, um, it's funny because yes, I, I think that that's where kind of, I don't, and I don't think that this is a cliched term 'cause I really believe in this or, or this sort of belief system, is that if it scares you, it's probably right.
Mm-hmm. It's probably something that you wanna, you know, steer towards. Yep. Um, because I think that that's just fighting against all of those, you know, sort of. Environmental and behavioral and, and sort of circumstantial situations that we find ourselves in as adults that are perhaps wanting us to divert from what we perceive our, you know, or, or feel our true paths to be.
Yeah. Um, we're really good at putting on protective layers. Exactly.
You know, it really is like, it's a muscle that you build and being uncomfortable is something that it's so good for you, you know? Yeah. It really is. As, as you, you know, as you get older and, and try new things. So
when you joined the startup company, what was it like to be in, uh, the startup world and more of a digital tech space?
Mm-hmm. Than you were in before? It was
really, really neat. Now, in retrospect, looking back. On many levels. Mm-hmm. First, it was a brand new world for me. Digital marketing was not something that I had, you know, experience in. Um, I was, like I said, in journalism communications, um, and was really absorbing kind of this new space at the same time.
It really was an amazing. Opportunity in the sense it enabled me to carve out my own sort of path within the company, unbeknownst to me at the time. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's something that's important to recognize is that while maybe in, you know, on, on my level looking back, I was thinking, am I doing things right?
Am I, you know, meeting the goals and expectations of the company, when in reality they were really relying on me to define what those goals and expectations were. Mm-hmm. Um, for, you know, the role that I kind of was in and, and was carving out, which was building out, like I said, a, a true employee experience, not only for future hires, but also for people that we had, you know, currently there.
Mm-hmm. Who at that time it was about seven or eight people. It was just, it was really neat to be able to lay the foundation for giving not only women, a really great experience. In onboarding and carving out their own paths, but also all of our, all of our hires that we eventually made, which were a lot.
Mm-hmm. You know, and, um, I'm sure we'll talk about that. But, um, yeah, I mean it was definitely a challenge though, you know, being sort of, you know, relatively younger and, um, moving to a new city and being of, you know, wanting to have a strong voice within many voices who are also navigating. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you wonder where you should speak up and where you shouldn't and all of those things.
And I think that what I learned quickly was there's no right answer to anything. Mm-hmm. You know, the right answer sometimes is just what you feel in your bones is and what your values are driving you toward. And those become the right answers that eventually shape the company.
Mm-hmm. Um,
and I think that that's something that continuously drives me is that.
As you move forward, you just have to sort of take measure of where things are right now, not compare yourself to where you feel like the company should be, what you feel like you should be doing. Mm-hmm. The conversations you feel like you should be having. It's just where are we are, where are we today and where, what, how do we get to tomorrow?
Yep. You
know, so
well, and I think that so many people who wanna start their own business or have their own business, like we don't give the entrepreneurship credit often to all the small businesses that are in every town and city. Mm-hmm. And it's really hard to make some of those decisions about what you stand for.
You know, like if you work in a corporate world, you know that there's going to be a mission, vision, value statement somewhere. Yeah. And so many other businesses don't have that. And it's one of the big things I coach people through having, because it allows you to make decisions when you can't decide.
Yeah. And. When you are in a startup, like what advice would you give to people to finding what their mission, vision, and values should be, or like where to start to figure that out?
Yeah, that's, I mean, I, it's such a great question and it's tough because I feel like sometimes you, you know, you go into a, a, an opportunity or a passion project with such great intentions and a clear vision of what you think this is gonna be.
Mm-hmm. And
then all of a sudden, you know. After your first couple of hires or after, you know, your first kind of few months, that might change a bit. Mm-hmm. And then it makes you question your initial intentions. And so then you become, okay, well, was I wrong or is this company not gonna work? Like, what, what, what has to change?
Yep. I, I truly think that. If you are true to the core values that you have, when you start, you can pivot around, you know, the sort of processes and the business related items that you might Yeah. They are going to change. Like you are going to have to modify, you are going to have to react to the market, to your customers, to your consumers, to your employees.
Mm-hmm. To yourself and your family situations. Yeah. Like the business will cause you to reflect along the way. I think though, if the core values that you have in place are strong, and I think sometimes businesses and, and people, 'cause I think that businesses are people.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I think that they get into trouble when they.
They have too many. Yeah. When it's like, it's gonna take us 15, like these are our values. This is what we're all trying to do, and these are the things that we're gonna care about every day. You can't care about 15 things every day. No. As a business person or leadership person, you just can't, you can care about your employees, how they are, how they're doing, and what's moving the needle forward across your projects site are top of radar and all those other, you know, values that look great on a website, those are gonna be things that, sure, we can modify those.
So I think like really the most important thing is harnessing in what's, you know, take a handful of the, the fundamental things that matter to you. Okay. Are my employees feeling? Do they feel at the end of the day when they go home, are they of value? Mm-hmm.
To.
To one another. Yeah. It's not even to the business because really, again, the business is a separate entity, some of the parts of the people, you know?
Mm-hmm. So yes. Are they, do they matter to their, their coworkers? Mm-hmm. Do their coworkers care about them? Do their coworkers value them? And chances are, I would say in all of my experience, 99.9% of the time, that answer is yes. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately, that's not often conveyed, and I think that that's a responsibility of leadership to facilitate that.
Um, but that's something that I think is really, really important as a value is, again, do I matter to my fellow employees, feel like I
matter? Um, well, every person wants to feel that they're make, like they have a purpose. Exactly. Like there's a contribution being made, especially when you dedicate so many hours to a company or your job.
There's there, we often put the, the. Position of choice on the employers because you need to get hired to get so many services, especially in the us.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but the reality is that the employee, employee has a lot of choice. Mm-hmm. And power too. There's been so many moments when I've been trying to hire someone and they were awesome and I was in like, fell in love with them when I first met them and they were a no.
And I guess a hiring person, I was crushed like, no. Like how will we succeed without you? Yeah. Um, but that's how it goes. Mm-hmm. And I don't think that, you talk a lot about not getting the job, but people don't talk a lot about not getting the person that they wanted to be on their team. Mm-hmm. Um, so, so yeah, like you, when you're spending all that time at work, you wanna feel valued.
You wanna feel like you're making a contribution. If you don't, you can, you can go.
Yeah. It's so true. I mean, it, and it really breaks my heart because I feel like that's something that is, it's like the free perk. Yeah. Like I, I hate the word perk as in, you know, in my position because I feel like it's so.
People don't give too many shits about, you know, having a ping pong table. No. Or like all of that. Like, I think that really if you make your people and your team feel that when they just log in in the morning to slack mm-hmm. Whether they sit in the chair, in the office, whether they call in for a meeting, that their presence matters.
That's the perk. You know? Yeah. And that's a free perk to companies. And it's unfortunate because I, I, I really don't think that that, um, we invest enough time, you know, as leadership sometimes into just Yep. Figuring out what that means to, to employees. When
you look at leadership
mm-hmm.
It's so easy to get caught up when you're starting the company or you inherit a role that has a lot of pressure on it to see the employees as your extra hands.
Like, how do I delegate things? 'cause I have too much on my plate. And you see them as. Worker bees instead of seeing them as like such a privilege to have help. Mm-hmm. Like right now with like, where powerful ladies is at, I feel so privileged to, you know, have Jordan able to help mm-hmm. To have, um, you know, Anna, that's like awesome graphic designer I'm working with available to help and everyone else that's helped.
Um, there's five people, so I should, they're all gonna get credit in the notes, but I wanna, I wanna keep moving for the purpose of the conversation, but like, I feel so thankful every day that I have people who are a yes to me. Mm-hmm. Because I literally can't create this if no one wants to be a guest and nobody wants to tell me edit.
Like, like really, like you look at the value that you're adding, I'm like, am I doing anything or are they doing all of this stuff? Mm-hmm. And so it's funny to think about it that way. So I'm very present to like wanting everyone that's working with me to know they're working with me. They're not working for me.
Like, I can't create this without you. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's something that gets so easily lost when. You can get sucked down the path of expansion or, um, you know, moving into a big corporate space. So too many people like worrying about money. Like there's so many things that can distract leadership.
Mm-hmm.
So true. And it's so tough as a startup because, you know, like, like money and finances, like being financially stable is the necessary. Yeah. It's the necessary, and I, I say evil in the sense that, you know, no one wants to talk about money and no one wants to have that be like the day-to-day conversation, but let's be real.
It is. Yeah. You know, in some, on some level. And so it's what
business is, it's all an
exchange of money. It is, it is. And it's not a sexy conversation, especially with. You know, I'll say millennials. Mm-hmm. You know, say that in a, a very positive way. I think that the millennial term gets such an ill sort of connotation sometimes in the workforce.
Mm-hmm. There can be sometimes. Um, but you know, the fact that businesses are bottom line driven, it, it, you know, it's just a reality. And so how do we have that conversation about being financially stable and successful and, and revenue driven. Mm-hmm. And also employee driven. Yeah. And socially conscious and all of these other things that matter and should matter.
It's a fine line and, and a, a dance that we walk as, you know, sort of HR leadership. Mm-hmm. And employee experience. Leadership is, okay, how do we have, how do we have an a employee, you know, workforce who is driven by, you know. Revenue, creating revenue for the company.
Mm-hmm.
Um, numbers and, and data driven.
I, I mean really though, like how do we have that sort of dual mindset of we wanna make the company successful and make money, but we also, you know, want to be, again, socially conscious and employee driven and create a really great experience for people.
In, in my world, a lot of it is a reflection of how many people aren't aware or wanna talk about their own finances.
Yeah. Because, so there's so much power in it. Like numbers don't mean anything. We put meaning on them. And so if you know what the numbers are, it really empowers you to decide is it smart to hire somebody? Should we wait a little while? Should we use freelance? Should we maybe like narrow our focus?
Should we, like what risk do we wanna take? And I think that there's so much power in the transparency to employees. Like there's always, as a manager, you're always going back and forth between how do you protect your team and how do you empower them? And it's like this really fine line and it's easy to mess up and it's easy to be really overwhelming.
But there is an element of protecting people from all the noise that can be in an executive team's head so that you can just worry about your lane. 'cause if everyone's worrying about everything, we're not gonna get anything done.
Mm-hmm.
And then it's also not the most practical and effective to. Not share what's happening because there's so many people who have the ability to, to contribute or make smart decisions on behalf of leadership in their role.
Mm-hmm. So it's, I think, you know, obviously I have a passion as you know, for like personal financing and people, I mean literacy. So how can we just all be more. Basic business savvy to know what's going on.
I think that the first step really in kind of meeting that goal is probably, it's really minimizing the layers of communication, I think, between employees management, senior leadership, executive leadership, like all of those things, especially in a young company.
Mm-hmm. Um, and again, there's no. There's no formula for that. Like how do you do that? And no two companies are the same and, and people communicate differently. So it's really a, you know, a navigation of personalities at the top, like leadership. I mean, I think that the personalities of senior and executive leadership have such a, an impact on the way that you have to manage your employees.
Mm-hmm. You
might have CEOs, you know, who are super vocal and super communicative and, you know, and touch on the day-to-day with their team. And that's gonna sort, I mean, that's gonna change the way that you sort of build a communications mm-hmm. You know, sort of system within the team. Um, because some of the work is gonna be done for you, quite frankly.
I think when you have a CEO who's less communicative, who might be a little bit more, you know, technology focused or, or even just shy. Or shy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, then a lot of that responsibility. Falls on your middle management mm-hmm. To kind of create that experience and provide that information, then upward and then vice versa, downward.
Mm-hmm. Again. So, um, yeah, it's kind of, it's a, it's an interesting, um, it's an interesting dance and that's why I think that the, the most important I, and I hate to use these sort of broad technical terms or like generalize, but really I feel like one of the more important quote layers of management within a company is just kind of really that middle to senior management mm-hmm.
Who can, you know, evaluate the needs of the team, diagnose problems, and, you know, be those, you know, that source of support both for your executive leadership and then for the employees that you hire and that you're bringing up
for somebody who is just at the stage of going from. Working by themselves and either hiring their first freelancers or hiring their first person.
What advice would you give them for those initial first hires? Uh,
there's a couple,
a
couple of things on different levels, um, from an actual, you know, day-to-day role perspective and what the person will be working on. I think that sometimes we hire too high up mm-hmm. At some point, or, or to some degree, um, because we need.
So much done. Yeah. We need so much help. And sometimes we underestimate, I feel, what people can do, um, you know, just on an ex execution level. And I think that it's really, really smart, and I know this is a very cliche thing to say, but it's, it is really smart to start a little bit leaner, I
think. Mm-hmm.
Um, that said, it's also really, really important to put in place. Like if you aren't going to step back from a leadership, like if you don't a, have the time, you know, or sort of day-to-day bandwidth to be hands-on with your team, it's, it is important to bring in someone who can. Um, so I think just being really realistic about what your needs are.
And then just first and foremost, trusting your instincts with people.
Mm-hmm.
I think. The most important thing when you're building a team? Um, yes, I've worked certainly in more of the tech space, but I, and, and brand development. But at the same time, I feel like it translates, you know, across industries.
The, the main thing is trust your instincts, instincts with regard to, um, what type of a, what type of people you wanna build a team around. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's the most important thing. I mean. There's so much talent out there, you know, and people have access now, it's such a much, much more of an earlier age and stage in their own careers to resources that mm-hmm.
Certainly I didn't have access to when I was building my career. Um, in terms of, you know, some of the, the technical skillsets that they need to have, but what you cannot develop, and I think. Surely what social media does not promote is the social interaction, the day-to-day physical communication that you really do still need in any industry to be successful.
Yeah.
And so if you really invest, I think your, your focus from those initial stages into hiring a core group of people that you can build anything with you, you can be successful. You won't, it doesn't mean you will be, but you can be. Yeah. So
it's easy to teach people
how to do a
task. Yes. It doesn't like, it doesn't matter what the, the work product is it you can teach anyone to do it.
Totally. Because someone learned how to do it in the first place. It's really hard to coach someone through. A, like a personality or a communication style or something else.
Mm-hmm.
So I definitely think, you know, looking at how people communicate and being really honest when you're hiring someone about how you communicate.
Um, like even when I'm bringing on freelancers right now, I'm like, this is how I work. Yep. This is what it's gonna be like. And I, I might contradict myself so you can call me out and it's fine. And, you know, here's the rules I'm gonna try and follow and like, not, not calling you late, but it might happen sometimes if I'm having to freak out.
Um, like I had, I'm working with this amazing, um, company called, uh, boldly Fine on my website. Mm-hmm. And Tamma the guy who, he lives in Nashville and I love
Nashville.
Right. Can we go out? Can we go see him? Tamma? Yes. Tamma. All right. Yes. Um, and I kept emailing him at like 11 o'clock my time, so it's three hours later there.
And he was replying back and the next day we had a meeting, I'm like, listen. Just because I'm emailing you does not mean I expect a response. Yeah. Like go to bed. Yeah. Like I'm emailing you, not texting you for a reason. Like, just,
that's actually, I'm glad you brought that up because something else, I think that people make hiring managers and HR and like the, some of the mistakes I, I see.
Um, you forget like people are just people. Mm-hmm. Like it is an awkward situa. Hiring is not easy. Yeah. Applying for jobs is not easy. Uh, the application process in and of itself, I mean, it's like, I could go on for days about this, but recruiting is a very antiquated industry. HR as a, as a whole.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I feel very confident in saying that, and I will argue against anyone that feels like we've made a ton of progress, you know, in that, in this industry. Um, what, what are
things that you think are missing?
I think that people on both ends of the spectrum, from the actual HR representatives and hiring managers and also applicants, you are, you put yourself in an, a sort of a, a weird space where you forget that the end of the day you're just making human connections.
Mm-hmm. I mean, at the end of the day, we all just want each other to be successful. Like, that's the Yeah. That's the biggest, you know, success metric is, is this person happy who I'm hiring and. You know, is the, is the company going to be better off for them, you know? Mm-hmm. Working on their behalf and ultimately, like we're all champions of one another's success.
And I think that what I see too often, and a lot of the questions I get from friends and former employees and former, I mean, just on a, literally a day-to-day basis is. How should I answer this email? How should I write this? You know, how should I send this message out and it, it can be a three sentence response that this person is staying up nights for.
Mm-hmm.
And it, it makes me feel a little bit sad because I'm like, oh my gosh, you are one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life. I hired you as a data engineer and you're asking me how to craft a three sentence email, which this is not an insult to you, this, it's just my frustration with this sort of process, because it makes us feel less than Yes.
You know, like we have to prove something other than just what we are good at, what we know about ourselves we believe in, or who we are. Exactly. And that's the biggest thing, what we believe in. 'cause at the end of the day, that really is, you know, what it, it is about, that's the marriage, what we believe in.
Mm-hmm. Is do you believe in the same thing as the company? And, you know, how can we make this, how can we make this happen?
Well, and so often people approach applying for jobs the way that they approach dating. Mm-hmm. Which means that you might not be totally honest upfront, or you might be on your best behavior upfront.
And it, it's just doesn't do you any favors. Yeah. Like the sooner you are just who you are, because it's not even just knowing if you're pretending to be a certain way or you're holding back certain parts of your personality. It'll be exhausting if you have to do that every day. Oh, yeah. And then if you do hold that back, you're not really being fair to the person trying to hire you.
Mm-hmm. Like, just be yourself. Like you sent a video in a hoodie and they're like, yeah, yeah. I think that'll work. Exactly. And how am I sitting here right
now here seven years later? Yeah. In a hoodie. And No, it's so true though, because three months in, they're gonna find out you're a vegan if they, you don't tell them on date one.
Yeah. All right. Like, you have to just go in with who you are. Yeah. And that doesn't mean you ambushed someone. Yes, I have. I mean, I still, you know, have all the respect and demand for professionalism and mm-hmm. Um, you know, approaching a job situation with the, it's respect. It is. Mm-hmm. It's respect, but it's also just being, again, yeah.
Like you said, like being human. And I think that that goes to not just for the applicants, but as an employer. And I feel like that's where my approach. As someone who did not come from the recruiting space. Like I, my background was not hr.
Mm-hmm.
I was a, I was in communications, I was used to, I was a storyteller, I was a writer.
And it mattered to me to tell these people's stories and the way that I viewed recruiting. I was telling these applicant stories to our team and vice versa. Mm-hmm. You know, I was telling the stories of our CEO's vision mm-hmm. And of the people who were invested when we were sitting on, you know, literally lawn chairs working off of cardboard boxes with our laptop.
Like that mattered to us. And you know, it's about telling an authentic story to both parties. And I think that that's, I mean, truly where I see. Like, to answer your earlier question, where I see people and, and companies steering, like kind of sometimes steering off course and, and I wanna correct that or, or hope to.
Mm-hmm.
I think you bring up a good point too about the lawn share in the boxes. Mm-hmm.
Because
in the past, since Facebook right, being in a startup and being in a tech world has become this glamorous industry to be in. Yep. And I don't think people think about what the reality is of working for any startup, let alone a tech startup.
And I feel really privileged that powerful ladies is not, um, there are no investors. Right. It's me. Mm-hmm. So I don't need to worry about answering to other people, which adds more pressure. Mm-hmm. But you really need to look at what is your day-to-day life going to be like, because. Like, will you be happy sitting at a lawn chair or working out of someone's garage or not knowing who's gonna own you the next day?
Yeah. Like there's so much variability. Um, and I don't think people think about what the day-to-day is gonna be like regardless of what job they go to.
Totally. I mean, there's this, and I see it. I, it's funny because over the past like six or seven years as I receive resumes every day, there's definitely, you see trends develop mm-hmm.
With
regard to what, you know, certain college curriculums are looking like, what people are, you know, what's going on in social media, what's going on in buzzwords. Yeah. Exactly. What's going on in pop culture. And, um, it's just such an interesting sort of day to day just d like. Dive into the human psyche on that, like in that age range.
Mm-hmm.
Um, again, in, in that age range, I mean, people kind of coming out of college and sort of newer, you know, to the tech space, um, and the startup. It's funny, like I, I am a lover of the startup space and culture. Mm-hmm. So I can speak from experience in saying I get it. Like, I get why it's, it's sexy and appealing, but yes, you're so right.
I see people coming out of school and, you know, they want directors titles or they want these sort of experiences that they see on, you know, and, and not even to minimize, like, I don't even want to, um, don't wanna discredit the experience and the intellect of the people who are coming out of college probably with more awareness.
Of opportunities right now than I certainly had at the same time. You like, it is a grind, you know, and it is a, um, it's a volatile world that, and that's no secret. Mm-hmm. You know, anyone, I mean, I think we all kind of know from a financial standpoint it's a vi volatile space. But I think too, again, it kind of goes back to the transparency in hiring.
You know, you have to just be real about the opportunities that are available to a team. Mm-hmm. You have to be real too, as a company, as like, you know, in terms of, um, what opportunities you, you're responsible to provide to employees as you're looking to grow. Um, and so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really interesting sort of navigation for sure.
One of the things that I've seen change more, and it might be that I'm getting older, it might be how the perspectives are changing. I feel like there's a lot more people at all age ranges, so this is not a generational thing. Yeah. Who are expecting to get more out of the work that they are going to do than is normally provided in a role.
Mm-hmm.
And it could mean that you think you deserve more money or a higher title or more responsibilities. And I think so much of that is tied to not feeling like you're part of what's happening at a bigger level. Yeah. Um, or just not having your expectations or skill sets really matching what's needed.
Yeah. And it's a really hard conversation to talk to people about. And then there've been some amazing people who, like, my favorite people to hire are the people that just say yes. Yeah. Not that they don't ever say no to me, but they're, they're a yes in, okay. Today we're going to have to, you know, set up for this event.
Mm-hmm. Like, we're all just gonna do it together. Or tomorrow we're gonna have to spend eight hours on emails. Okay. Like, there's, just knowing what is, like the work is not sexy. Yeah. There are moments of work that are, but like the day-to-day stuff is not,
I completely understand what you're saying. And I think that for me, that one word comes to mind when I hear what you just said and it's trust.
Yeah.
Because I feel that, 'cause I know what you said about, or what you mean when you say people who just wanna say yes.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you, you trust that what you're saying yes to is ultimately going to get. The company to where yeah, we want the company to be, and also you as a person and as an individual contributor.
Mm-hmm. Also to some sense of fulfillment. And I think that, that, again, it goes back to trust and trust in leadership, leadership's trust in the employees. And I, one of the phrases that I think I stole it from like Oprah or something, I, I really think I did. But, um, it was, and I've said this so many times, all of the employees who I've hired over the past seven years, there's hundreds of people out there right now going, yep.
She said that to me. But it is, I, I, we are, I, I always strive as a company to come from a place of Yes. Mm-hmm. Meaning. You have an idea? Yes. Yeah. Let's try it. Mm-hmm. Okay. If it doesn't make any sense to actually execute on Sure. Of, of course. We're not gonna, you know, go down that rabbit hole. But I don't ever want to be that company where it's like, oh no, that shouldn't work.
Like, no. We'll see. We'll thank you for asking, but we'll, we'll get back to you on that, you know? Yeah. Shutting people down totally. Mm-hmm. It's, you know, it's demoralizing. It's dehumanizing. It makes people feel crappy. It makes people go home at the end of the day and turn on Bravo and like, you know, have a glass of wine and not wanna open their laptops and then bitch about it to whoever's next to that, and then, yeah, exactly.
Totally. You know, and so it's like nothing, and not, there's nothing wrong with Bravo. I love Bravo. I watch it every night. Um, but yeah, I just think that like we, we get, we put people in a place sometimes where they feel like they have to, they have to choose. Mm-hmm. Between, you know, being. Uh, sort of a company person and saying yes all the time, and then also kind of pushing back and saying, well, I have these ideas.
You know, and that's where I feel like if you just create the environment where you come from a place of yes, people don't have to choose, they can push back. They can say yes, they can say no, they can. Mm-hmm. You know, that's where you, again, it goes back to those layers of transparency Yeah. Within a company.
And I love that. Like, and to complete my favorite type of employee. Like I want them to be a yes to like whatever, like, and that's my responsibility to be enrolling enough where I get them excited about it and get them passionate about it. I mean. Putting tattoos on their body of our logo is like a great sign, Uhhuh.
And I need them to also check me. Yeah. Like we had a conversation last weekend, Jordan, I, where she's like, um, you're insane and nobody records 25 episodes in, uh, two months. So you need to chill out because you're gonna burn yourself out. You're burning me out. There's enough time. I need a life Uhhuh. And I was like, huh.
Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm like, I can do this every day. You don't wanna do this every day. He's like, I do do it every day. And I'm like, okay, fine. We'll chill out the schedule. But like, I need that. Yeah. And just like, you know, I, um, I have J Rose on the team mm-hmm. And she's also like, we'll, we'll do things. And I'm like, going, going, going.
And she's like, um, I'm like, okay, just say it. I'm like, what did I mess up? Mm-hmm. Like, just tell me what did I forget? What's a bad idea? And, you know, um, we read the book Radical Candor. Yeah. Which I think is so great in, if you are a leader, you need to go and read this book right now. Mm-hmm. Because the best thing that you can do as a leader is give the people on your team the ability to check you.
Yeah.
And like, know that there's not gonna be a consequence. Yeah. And so go read the book and we, you, you guys send us comments and I'll be happy to talk more about it, but there's a, the responsibility of giving people that space. Mm-hmm. And so I, that's. To meet really important.
No, I, I completely agree.
Um, yeah, I mean definitely I could probably speak to the radical candor, you know, um, so on this radical can candor subject for a while, but I think that any. Any communication with that's founded in, you know, good intentions and also my personal value if I were to summarize anything, um, you know, yes, obviously like there's integrity and respect and all those things, but really kindness for me goes mm-hmm.
So far because I, you know, I feel like when you treat people with kindness and when you, and part of kindness is being honest, I mean, that really to me is part of just treating someone with respect and being kind to who they are and being kind to the situation and, um, and, you know, communicating in a way that people are, are absorbing and digesting with the true understanding of what your intentions are.
You know, I think you'll, you'll reach the best outcomes. So
I think that we're in such a interesting time right now around the world of how. Work practices are changing. Yeah. To allow people to have more freedom and, um, kind of have the life that they want. Um, there's a lot more flexible working. There's a lot more remote working.
Mm-hmm. Um, some of the topics that I think are so important, especially for women, are looking at maternity leave. Mm-hmm. Childcare support and flexible hours. What are your opinions on those topics?
Oh man, it's tough because as a startup you wanna offer everything. I mean, I have so many grand plans. Um, my, my stance on, on all of that, I think that whatever we can do to, um, promote an employee experience where you're focused on what matters.
Mm-hmm. Which is. Your health as a human and your family's health and I, and I'm talking physical and mental health.
Mm-hmm.
Um, 'cause that matters first and foremost. The company will not be successful if you are not a healthy person. Um, so I think that that is a necessary investment as an any socially responsible, but also any organization that wants to be alive, you know, in the next six months.
Two years, whatever it might be. Um, yeah, employee health and their family health. That said, along with family health comes family planning. So I think if you wanna build a company with longevity, family planning is a timely and necessary conversation. Mm-hmm. And I think that as a company, you know, it's up to you to kind of define what that means.
Um, I mean, I can, I'm transparent about all of my personal beliefs with regard to, to that. I'm, I'm always happy to be. I think that it's important to give any employee an opportunity to make decisions, um, for what, you know, their family needs to look like in the next 2, 3, 4, or five years. Mm-hmm. If that's what you see as being like the goal for the company being around that long, you know?
Mm-hmm. So I think like budgeting in that regard is really important. Not only financially, but just with regard to scaling up the employee experience. Um. So yes, those, I think, you know, health related items are first and foremost, super critical. Clearly financial planning is also important. Kara, you know, you've led, you know, a sort of, um, educational.
Opportunity for our team internally on financial planning. I always joked, you know, coming out of high school, why did we take government class, you know, when we should have been taking financial planning classes. Yeah. Um, not that government is not important, but like, let's be real, like we don't have those opportunities as young adults to understand how to save.
Mm-hmm. What a 401k really means. Yeah. You know what financial planning really means. I think that is something that's such a huge benefit to employees is walking them through the financial planning process.
Mm-hmm.
What, you know, we can offer them, even as a lean company, it might not mean now, right. You know, we might not be able to roll out a 401k program as a startup, but we can say if you can, you know, talk to us about your financial goals.
We can hopefully work out something where we are addressing kind of the global mm-hmm. Concerns of the team. Um, so I think that that's something as well. Yeah. You know, with regard to the employee experience. Um, what else were, what was your sort of the second part, the
maternity leave? Childcare, um, flex time and working remotely.
So working remotely is a really interesting topic and I straddle the lines on a couple of different levels. First of, I, I by no means straddle any line when it comes to flexibility. Mm-hmm. I think it's critical. I think that especially in, you know, in larger markets and in Los Angeles where commute is a factor, um.
Any responsible employer is flexible mm-hmm. In that regard, um, you have to be, you just have to understand that people's lives are not, is not a one size fits all employee experience nowadays, and it shouldn't be. Um, and that's evolving. I think that while remote work is completely, completely doable and, um, I mean I'm working remotely a hundred percent right now mm-hmm.
As we look for brand new office space. However, there does need to be a then. Really focused internal communication plan. Mm-hmm. Because people need to be connected on a day to day. And that's kind of, you know, again, a dance with different employers. How do you do that? What does that mean?
Mm-hmm.
Is it daily standups?
Is it, you know
Yep.
Regular onsite opportunities. Like, and that's tough to facilitate sometimes, but I know that there are just so many companies out there who are doing it right. Mm-hmm. And who are doing it well. And by it, I mean remote work. So I'm a, I'm a big proponent of those remote work opportunities.
Again, I also believe in the value of having people on site. I do think that sometimes, um, you know, when you have employees who have that flexibility to work from home, sometimes they value the onsite experience. Mm-hmm. So much more than employees who feel like. They are, you know, kind of gotta
go to work today, judged
by the butts in the, I call it the butts in the seat thing.
Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. How many hours are in their seat and behind their laptop when, you know, they might be checking Facebook or like emailing their mom back or all of these things, which I don't care if they are doing that. Right. If they're getting like, you know, if they're getting their work done.
But at the same time, it's like, how do we evaluate people's performance and what does that communicate to them
Well, and so one of the biggest mistakes I think that small businesses startups make is spending the time or money on a physical space because it's so risky. It's so expensive, you get locked into things and you don't know what you're gonna need yet.
Mm-hmm. Um, like every, like how to start a business book is like, do not spend money on designing and decorating an office. Yeah. Because. That's money that can go somewhere else. It'll evolve.
Mm-hmm.
Like whatever you got, like if you can do it off of your dining room table, you're winning.
Oh, totally. No, I, it's so funny.
I think of some of the most, um. Not only fun, but really just transformative. Mm-hmm. Times in some of the companies I've worked for, we've literally worked with nothing, you know? Yeah. Like dirty carpets, like random spaces that we will, you know, come together in. And, and that's not to detract from the amazing, you know, buffet lunches that I see, you know?
Mm-hmm. Some companies being able to roll out day to day, like, sure, I'll sneak in on one of those lunches. I'm like, cherry pick. But no, I think that, um, it's just, you know, it's, again, it's when you focus on the things that matter and create employee experience around those things, the other things just don't really, you know, you don't need in their ancillary to some degree, it's like a family.
What does the family need? Exactly. Exactly. And so I think that, yeah, saving on overhead, like saving on parking, saving on
mm-hmm.
All of these, you know, line item expenses that obviously I see day to day. It's really important. And I think that it's important for entrepreneurs and CEOs and people who are looking to build and create to realize, like, your employees don't, they don't really care about.
Mm-hmm. Having all of those bells and whistles if they have a stable and functional, you know, team to report to every day. Yeah. To check in with, and yes, I do think onsite experience is really important, but that's a different conversation mm-hmm. Than, you know, having an office space that you're building from day one.
Yeah. As the, you know, women's movement has been resurging and Me Too has come out. How have you had to change how you, uh, act as a, you know, head of culture and people mm-hmm. And what have been the things that have surprised you that have come up in that space?
So again, I think what I've noticed, um, really is just more of a proactive approach on behalf of leadership to come out, ask questions.
Um, reach out to employees and involve third parties. Mm-hmm. You know, myself sometimes and, you know, maybe other managers and just ask for help. Yeah. In navigating situations that they feel like might lead them into stick ter sticky territory. Otherwise, yeah, I think there is definitely a, a bit more sensitivity for sure in, with regard to, um, sort of, I think subject matter that might come up in general channels, whether it's via Slack, whether it's, um, you know, just conversations that they might be having with their managers where they might also want a third party present, which again, think is there's
higher employee sensitivity versus leadership.
Um, I think there's just, I think there's higher awareness on both levels. Mm-hmm. For sure.
Yourself, as a woman who has had career changes, a lot of navigating, a lot of creating your own structure and titles mm-hmm. Having to make all that uhhuh like. Where do you go to, to, um, learn more about your craft?
Where do you go to, to keep being on the forefront of what's happening in, um, business and startups? Mm-hmm. Like how do you, where do you personally go to like de personally develop?
Yeah, it's, that's so funny because I, I think about that question a lot actually, because like you said, I've kind of been self navigating to some degree.
Um, you know, in terms of being a, a sort of. Kind of, um, one band one, what's the phrase? One man band. One man band. One man band in an HR department. And I say that in quotes, um, as a startup, you know, you don't have departments, you kind of are the, the person department of one. Exactly. So, um, I, I am, I've always been just a voracious reader, like, you know, since the time I, since I was a little kid.
And I think that the funny thing about human resources and recruiting and building, you know, employee cultures, it is, it lends itself to so many different industries. So I'm obsessed with food and cooking, and I read tons about everything that's going on in the restaurant world. And, you know, I think that there are so many, um, parallels between building a.
Restaurant staff. Mm-hmm. You know, building a team and I'm just giving one example. Yeah. You know, of things that I read where this is just about employee psyches and, and psychology and, and humanity people. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Um, so just reading in general, and that's a very kind of general statement, but also too, I mean, I just am so grateful that I've been able to meet so many people over the course of, you know, coming up in this space mm-hmm.
Who've taught me so much. I've had some, some really, you know, yourself included. Thank you. Some really strong leaders, um, who, you know, you, it's a conversation. Mm-hmm. It's what's working, what's not working, what needs to change. Um, you know, obviously I've read a lot of, a lot of books, you know, radical candor you mentioned.
Yeah. Um, but you know, I think that that's something that we all kind of do. Um, but really I think too, is. Just continuously using my friends and family as a sounding board.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think that as you navigate your careers and your personal relationships, you surround yourself with people who.
Might not be in the same industry, but have similar concerns and, and mm-hmm. Passions that you can learn from. Um, I also think too, it, it really requires research. I think that you have to be your own sort of thought leader within your space and being real about what you care about. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like if you are in, if you find yourself, you know, in a.
In a role where you feel like you're working a little bit outside of your genius zone, and you are doing things that, you know, you're not, that's not what you're great at. Mm-hmm. But they need to get done. It means having a conversation with yourself as in terms of where is my genius zone? Like, what am I really good at?
Mm-hmm. What, like, what am I really excited about to work on every day? And then having that conversation maybe with whomever you need to. Um, so for me, yeah. Like titles come and go. Yeah. And I will, that's my biggest piece of advice to people who are, you know, get caught up on that. Like mm-hmm. Don't worry about your title.
Like, it means really, yes, it's important on a resume sometimes, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really mean anything. Like you have to just steer yourself very honestly mm-hmm. In the direction that you feel like you're in what you're good at.
Yeah.
You know,
one of the biggest struggles that I had towards, um, in the last couple roles I had were finding mentors that.
Ha like could guide me. And it, I mean, it was for a good reason 'cause I was at a place where there weren't many people above me in organizations. And it's, I don't usually recommend that your boss is your mentor.
Mm-hmm.
And I've had amazing peers and I, I've had amazing managers and bosses. But you always want somebody kind of outside of that bubble to be able to go to totally who's either, well, not just lived the career, but lived the life that you might just be like a few steps behind.
Exactly. Right. Like, I
think it's really important to find someone who's a little bit down, more down the road than you are. What are your tips for people to find a mentor, and what do you think about mentors in general?
I think mentors, I think it's really important, and I think that sometimes you don't realize that someone was a mentor until a few years pass.
Yes. Or you kind of like have reflection. You look back and you go, wow, that person really helped me get to where I am. Mm-hmm. Like whether they realize it or not. And again, they might not have, like you said, weren't your boss. Yeah. Maybe didn't even work in the same industry that you worked in. Mm-hmm. But they gave you some advice that mattered and I.
I have found mentors in crazy, crazy places. Um, for sure. I mean, I can look back on, on times in my life where I just built friendships with older people and I, and, and that's, and that's another thing I think in hr, you, you know, you steer clear from talking about age.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I do see there's such a value in people who've done it.
Mm-hmm. You know, who've been there. And I've found some great sources of support and of guidance in, um, my friends joke. I have like 85-year-old friends, Uhhuh, you know, who I've regularly checked in with and go to lunch with and, you know, follow up with. But they just have so much wisdom mm-hmm. And so much, you know, life experience behind them that has lent such a value to my life.
Also, my parents. I mean, really, you know, you think about those dinner I call 'em the dinner table conversations that you didn't realize until mm-hmm. You became an adult informed who you are. What you value and how you treat other people. And I think that that is a huge thing for me. Um, also, I think that some of, and this is, stay with me on this one, but I truly mean this.
Some of my mentors and my biggest, I think, um, inspirations and, and people I've learned the most from have pe have been people I've hired. Mm-hmm. And some of the, I mean, whether, I don't care if it, if they were interns or you know, executive level employees of people of all ages, demographics from everywhere across the country, I've learned the most from them because you, they, they restart you.
They bring you back to kind of what the core, you know, the fundamental values that you have are, and then sort of bring you into an a world and into a new perspective where. It's been to me not only the most educational from a pure skillset mm-hmm. Perspective, like I've learned so much about some of the different positions I'm hiring for that, you know?
Yeah. I would never have known, you know, about these, these sort of technical capacities and, and requirements now that, you know, we need to have to stay competitive. But also too, just, you know, they've been sort of my mentors as I've developed. Um, so I think like that's a very long-winded way of saying with regard to like finding, you know, guidance and mentorship.
Mm-hmm. Be open to it in every, in every capacity. Mm-hmm. And just, it's just, it really, again, underlines or underscores the, um, I think the belief that, you know, um, learning comes in can come in every, you know, from any angle.
Yeah. When I think of amazing people who, um, like intern I've, I've had the pleasure of working with so many amazing interns mm-hmm.
That like, I see what they're doing now and I am so happy for them and so proud. And I think of like Jackie Yes. Who was so like, just amazing, amazing. And just such a like, uh, breath of fresh air in the sense of just the wonder and excitement. Yeah. And like that you, I, you forget sometimes what it feels like when you start working and like start on a career and you wanna learn everything.
And it's great too 'cause you forget how much you know. Yeah. Because it becomes so obvious to you. It's so true
When you're talking to someone at your level every day
mm-hmm.
You'll continue to be at that level when you, you know, involve yourself on a day-to-day with someone either mm-hmm. Above you or below you.
That is where you then not only learn, but then you, you develop a sense of respect for yourself again. Yeah. And what you know, and also what you don't know. Mm-hmm. And where you need to learn. And I feel like if I had, you know, if, if there were a takeaway for employers, it would be the time value that is of like, if the value that you get of spending time on a day to day, or at least weekly with your employees, it is not just to move, you know, the proverbial needle forward.
Yeah. It is a value to you as a. Business person and as a employer and as a leader, because you're gonna learn stuff mm-hmm. That you didn't know. You didn't know, you know? So do that, take that time.
Yep. I don't think that enough people, when they move from a role that is like an individual contributor role to a manager role
mm-hmm.
That they think about how they have to adjust, how much they can get done in a day. Like, if you are a manager, your number one job is managing the people.
Mm-hmm. And,
and like the project in sense, but essentially, but people, you, you, no one coaches most people through that experience. So you go from, I just gotta get this done, get it done, and then you're asking other people just get it done.
Mm-hmm. And you don't schedule the time to like, sit with people or walk around like there's a damn, Meredith has a great book where you, one of my favorite takeaways from it is that you can get three to five things done a day, a day, a week. Yeah. A month they scale. Right. But, so if you can get three things done a day.
One of those things should be time with your people. Mm-hmm. And then that means that you get to get two things done that day. And as a high achiever, having to go back and like only get three things done a day is devastating. Yeah. Devastating. Oh, yeah. Because you don't feel like you're doing anything anymore.
Well, that's
why I feel like to-do lists sometimes are evil.
Yeah.
You know, because you see those and you're like, oh my gosh, I have 10. Okay. I have 10 things I'm gonna do tomorrow. Yeah. And then if you get three things done, you feel like you failed. Yeah. But those three things might have really been exactly what you need to get done.
Mm-hmm. And made, you know, made some things happen like that you needed to get done. So Yeah.
It's, yeah. And if, and if we flipped it right, it's like the half empty, half full. Mm-hmm. If you were. If you were filling up a cup and you got a third of the way, you'd be like, yes. Mm-hmm. But when you only get three things off your shoe list, you're like, no.
Oh yeah. I can't go to sleep. It's
so true. Yeah. And then you ask yourself, how healthy is that?
Mm-hmm.
Like, am I staying up just to check these items off the list or should I just go to bed mm-hmm. Feel good and then do a better job tomorrow? You know,
now that I've accepted that I will get three things done a day.
Anything below three mm-hmm is bonus. Yeah. And it, it just, it helps so much to check yourself. Like I was having a meltdown yesterday with myself about my to-do list. 'cause I was shipping out all the ambassador t-shirts for International Women's Day, and it took way longer than I expected it to. And I had 50 other things I was supposed to do.
And I was like, are you kidding? Like, I had gotten a few more things done, but I was like, that was the bulk of my day. Yeah. I'm like, well, listen to myself because I should have outsourced this because. Like this is not contributing to the big picture in the same way. And I felt a lot of pride that every woman who's getting that package right now, like I made it exactly like it's, it's me.
Like there wasn't, I didn't give that to somebody else. Like, so that's how important it was. It was done right. Um, but I, I think that what we don't talk a lot about also is how the expectations of time and availability have changed so much. Um, there's some crazy statistic about how the acceleration of work hours, like officially recorded or not officially recorded, just continues to be on this exponential path.
Mm-hmm. I was so thankful and it actually made me reevaluate how a company treats me. But when I was working in Germany, I thought it was so dumb at first that you had to every employee clocked in and clocked out and didn't mean that you were paid hourly. Mm-hmm. But legally you could only work so many hours.
A week, you had to have so much time between when you stopped working and started working the next day. Mm-hmm. Um, you, if you worked over um, uh, eight hours, you got two hours put into your vacation time. Mm-hmm. So you really felt valued for when you put that those weeks that you put all the extra work in, you were like, no, it's okay.
I'm gonna get a vacation out of it. And there was even things where, uh, I don't know if it's true, the rumor I was told was that your boss can go to jail if you're working too much. Mm-hmm. And to me it was like just such a great thing to see that my work was going somewhere for the company. Yeah. And for me.
And when I moved back to the US it was so hard to not have all the vacation time anymore and to. Just have your expectation for working hours, just go on into infinity.
Yeah. It's, that's, and that's something that's very, very, it's tricky, um, especially as a startup, because the expectation is, you know, we're grinding, you know, we're all grinding, we're all, you know, just powering forward and, um, which is part of the appeal of it.
And I, and you know, I can speak from experience, like I love it. There's an energy and a, you know, such a sense of satisfaction in knowing that all of those hours are, you know, resulting in something really cool. Mm-hmm. That said. I have to ask myself sometimes, what sort of an example do I wanna set personally for our team and what's realistic?
I mean, in terms of what we're asking of people to put forth mm-hmm. With regard to the hours that, um, you know, they're, they're providing the company. And the funny thing is, and this is something too that I feel that, you know, as I look back on the past seven years of my career, we're getting older people's, like living situations are changing.
People are going to want to have families someday. So maybe what you are able to provide, you know, in year one to the company might look a little bit differently in year four. So that's something as a company, you know, you obviously hope to address as you scale. But really too, I think that it's just something that in the planning phase that you have to be prepared to address.
Mm-hmm. Um, work life balance. It's like, you know, the kind of, I think the. Question that we all kind of come back to is, what does that mean? Yeah. All the time. Um, I don't have an answer in terms of, of what that means or whether it's realistic. I think that that's something that people, you know, have personal, um, opinions on.
I do think though, as employees, we do have responsibilities to set boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
Um, where. Our employees feel okay to have time off.
Yeah.
Um, even, you know, we're in the e-comm space and that is a 24 7 space, especially, you know, over the holidays when people are with their families. Those are some of our busiest times.
Mm-hmm. And that was something that we learned that hard way over Black Friday. Mm-hmm. Was, you know, we went from a digital marketing company that gave our employees the day after Thanksgiving off, and all of a sudden we went, oh my goodness, it's Black Friday. Like, you have to be working tomorrow. And not only do you have to be working, this is our busiest time of the year and okay, our bad, but how do we navigate this?
And um, you know, like that's, it's easy to say, okay, well we'll give you that time. Like we'll give you time off, but what does time off mean? Mm-hmm. Does that mean we aren't gonna contact you? We're not gonna slack you, we're not gonna text you. Like, so that's the responsibility as employers that we just need to be able to like, we need to be willing to take on.
Yeah. And say these are ti like these are. Require days off, you know, that the company is making you, making you take. Yeah. Um, and then therefore, you know, we're also responsible for not reaching out. I also think that there's a larger conversation out there, you know, in terms of how we, um, how we navigate time off in America.
Mm-hmm. And what that means. I've never lived abroad. I've fantasized for sure of, you know, some of the opportunities I've mm-hmm. You know, heard working abroad affords to, to people. I think that, you know, there are definitely things that we could learn and do better from, um, yeah. From other cultures, so
Well, and I think having the, the luxury of living it, all of these companies succeed.
Yeah.
And like. There's this great book called The Viking Manifesto that evaluates how the Nordic countries create these huge companies, but also have the fewest working hours.
Mm-hmm.
And like France just passed a law where it's illegal to have emails show up in on someone's mobile device after hours or on the weekends they can get sent, but they can't display anywhere They like, get put into like a queue Interesting.
Where they, um, are caught until like the next working hour. Then you'll get like 5 million things popping. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine? I think it'd be, I mean, I think it would be great personally, but I also since living in Europe, have adopted a lifestyle where. Like, I don't, I'm not checking my phone, I'm not checking my emails.
Like if you, if there's an emergency, you're gonna have to call me or text me because I'm not looking. Yeah. It's not worth it.
I think it's too about like self-governing to some point, because it, let's be real, like we're not there. We have to self govern. Like there's not gonna be any like global, you know, changes to the way that Americans work anytime in the near future.
I think as employers we have the responsibility to, like I said, kind of put some parameters in place, but something I think on a personal level that we can do is, and again, it just kind of comes back to setting expectations. Um, like personally, I stopped, I changed my, my notification settings on my phone to where if I get an email, I don't see a popup.
Yeah. And I remember before I did that it was a terrifying idea. Like, you know, like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna see this email if it comes in right, right away.
Mm-hmm.
What I realized, it made zero impact on my. Productivity, my success, if anything, it just made me less crazy throughout the day. Yeah. Yep. You know, and those are like, I think the minimal changes that we can encourage our team to make and also promote mm-hmm.
Within a company like, we trust you, you're going to get your work done, you're going to check your email, you're going to check your Slack notifications. I'm not going to expect that, you know, at 10 30 at night, you're gonna reply back in three minutes. Mm-hmm. In fact, I don't want you to.
Mm-hmm. You
know, so I think it's those kind of realistic conversations that we need to have.
And I think as an employee, it's real. You have to take the responsibility that yes, whatever you do for work or however you earn your money, is a big part of your life.
Mm-hmm.
But you need to be structuring a life, like a whole life that works for you. Exactly. So you have to take responsibility for like, how many hours are you gonna work and what does it look like, and what do you do before and after?
And like there's a whole, you can't just choose a job because. It looks good, it pays well. It gives good benefits when it doesn't allow you to have any of the other life things that you want. Exactly.
And I think that, you know, as a company too, I'm a, I'm just, I, I come back to this a million times over, but you will ultimately be successful in the long run.
Mm-hmm. If you, you know, carve out a path for employees where they can have those, they can create a life that makes sense for them.
Mm-hmm. As we're wrapping up, uh, today's session, um, we ask everyone. Where you feel on the powerful lady scale, zero being average, human, 10 being Wonder Woman, powerful lady.
Where do you feel today? Where do you feel, on average, where do you see the vibe of women, uh, on that scale? I love that question.
Um, gosh. Well, I wanna start with women in general on that scale. Okay. I have never, I really have never been more proud to be a woman. I feel like. Really so many of the, um, cultural movements yes, are reaffirming and exciting, but I think what I am seeing more on the day-to-day level mm-hmm.
Of women just reaching out to one another and providing experiences like this one mm-hmm. To have these conversations that is so much more exciting to me. A hundred, you know, in terms of the excitement level, um, in terms of feeling and harnessing my own power, I think it varies sometimes, you know, I think that I, you know, as a woman in my thirties, a single woman navigating career in Los Angeles, some days, I feel so proud of myself.
And inspired by the many women I'm, you know, surrounded with. But then I think we all have that inner voice that we're not doing enough and we're not good enough and we're not, you know, successful enough, or Yeah. We haven't, you know, made our Jewish mother proud with the man that we've, you know, married, um, shout out Debbie Ginsburg, Hajec.
Um, but you know, I think that that's something too that we, um, that we, we navigate as women. Mm-hmm. And I'm okay with that. So I think just for me, on a day-to-day, you know, scale of where I am as a powerful woman, recognizing my own vulnerabilities and insecurities only makes me feel prouder and more, more powerful, so to speak.
So,
yeah.
Um, I'll, I'll say I'm at a 50.
All right. I like that. You know? Yeah. I'm getting there. Off the charts. Off the charts. Um, what are things that you do when you're not worried about a team at work? Like.
Mm-hmm.
What is Katie like when there's no work around? That's a great question, Kara.
Um, I. I, well, I love to cook, so I, that's my kind of decompressing.
Mm-hmm. Like I will put on a podcast. I have a few, I have a great Visionist history is one of my favorites. I'll put on, um, uh, what really happened. Um, I mean, there's a million I could go on. I'm a big crime podcast enthusiast at the moment. Awesome. Um, but yeah, I'll put on podcasts. I do a lot of cooking.
I'm a big believer in sweating out your, you know, just. Anxieties and stress. So I go to bar. Mm-hmm. I go to Bar Method on La Brea here and it's amazing. Um, and I do that regularly. I feel like that just sort of physical exertion just kind of brings me back to who I am. Um, but also I think this is not, this is not underrated.
Never, never, you know, underestimate the power of really good friend time and, you know, a glass of wine with your girlfriends sometimes you forget how much you need it until you get outta those yoga pants. Girls get in that lift, go to that restaurant and have that time with your friends. You know, you just need that.
Um, you know, and just giving yourself some, telling yourself you're proud of yourself each day,
I think. Oh, I like that. Yes. Is that something that you do in the morning or before you go to bed?
I think I have my, my greatest like points of reflection, um, usually happen at night. Mm-hmm. I'm kind of a morning hustler while I tend to.
You know, be go, go, go after, yeah. After bar. But I think at night, yeah. I'll, I'll kind of have that moment where I, sometimes I, and sometimes it comes after a cry to my sister. Sometimes it comes after a, you know, just feeling less than mm-hmm. Where you actually think, wow, I've done so much. Yeah. Like, you know, we've done, we've done so much.
So I think that that's important to acknowledge.
Yes. Uh, what are other things that you structure into your life that allows you to. Be living at your best?
Definitely routine a bit. Mm-hmm. I think that sometimes you kind of think, okay, I need to not be so routine oriented, but for me personally, having a morning routine really helps me.
Mm-hmm. Um, and by that it's like, it can be, and it doesn't necessarily have to be crazy, it's like as simple as I wake up early, I have a glass of coffee or a cup of coffee and I, you know, like I said, I go to my workout and then it's kind of freeform, you know, come home, work from home a bit, figure that out.
But just that kind of core get the day going helps. Um, I think also too scheduling, like I said, time with people that you care about daily. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just even five minute, like a phone call. Yep. Um. Another big thing, a nap sometimes is so important. Yeah. Some rest. Good quality sleep. I'm terrible. I will be the first to admit I am a hundred percent guilty as charged when it comes to not sleeping enough.
So that's a goal of mine. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I think just like a little bit of structure and routine for me, like really lends itself well to the rest of my day.
Yeah. And what are you excited about for 2019?
I'm excited about the fact that so many people and women who I care about are doing some really cool things, this being one of them.
Um, you know, some of my friends also are kind of on new paths and journeys. Mm-hmm. Some of my, my oldest female friends are, you know, kind of starting over from marriage and from, you know, just relationships that might not have worked out. And so proud to see, you know, where they are and, and see what's in store for them.
Um, personally speaking, I think. I am really, really excited to hopefully focus a bit more on helping people find success and fulfillment in their careers, and providing some resources that will help them help answer some questions about how to get there. Mm-hmm. You know, what it ma, what it means to find a gr.
How to find a job they care about. Yeah. How to as an employer, you know, navigate those conversations with potential employees. Um, and just build some really cool employee experiences for people that are fostered in, um, you know, true like personal growth, integrity development, and, you know, just opportunities to, you know, change the world for the better.
Hopefully.
I like
it. Well, thank you so much for coming on The Powerful Ladies podcast. This has been great. Aw, thank you Kara. I'm so excited to be here. This is so fun. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thank you. Bye.
There are some really great topics that we discussed in this episode. I'm excited that we were able to touch on many of the HR related questions we're getting from you guys. As well as from people who are asking about, not just for startups, but like how do you get a new job and what should we worry about as we navigate our careers?
It can be so overwhelming. The world of HR has been transitioning to talent and culture for many years now, and it will continue to do so between legal changes, cultural expectations, and the fact that how we think about what it means to work and earn money continues to evolve the topic of, you know, HR and culture, and people will continue to evolve as we all do.
If all HR leaders could be as contemporary and committed as Katie, we'd not only have a different world at work, I believe we'd really have a different world outside of work as well, because it really comes down to honoring the people, making sure everyone's heard, and giving people a space. Where they can be perceived as a yes.
And isn't that just a nice utopia vision? If you wanna connect with Katie, you have questions about hr, you think she'd be a great speaker at your company, or even to just give you some advice, you can follow her on Instagram at Katie r Hajec. You can visit her on LinkedIn slash katie Hajec or email her katie Hajec@gmail.com.
Again, all the correct spellings for everything we just said is available in our show notes@thepowerfulladies.com. If you'd like to support the work that we're doing here at Powerful Ladies, there's a couple of ways you can do that. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Google Play, or anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Leave a review on any of these platforms. Share the show with all the powerful ladies and gentlemen in your life. Join our Patreon account. Check out the website, the powerful ladies.com to hear more inspiring stories. Get practical tools to be your most powerful. Get 15% off your first order in The Powerful Ladies Shop, or donate to the Powerful Ladies one Day of Giving campaign.
And of course, follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies for show notes and to get the links to the books, podcasts, and people we talk about. Go to the powerful ladies.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. She's one of the first female audio engineers in the podcast team world, if not the first.
And she also happens to be the best. We're very lucky to have her. She's a powerful lady in her own right, in addition to taking over the podcasting world. She's a singer songwriter working on our next album, and she's one of my sisters. So it's amazing to be creating this with her, and I'm so thankful that she finds time and her crazy busy schedule to make this happen.
It's a testament to her belief in what we're creating through powerful ladies. And I'm honored that she shares my vision. Thank you all so much for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. I can't wait for you to hear it Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life.
Go be awesome and up to something you love.
I like big books on a Canada Laugh Live.
What do you want them to do, Kara?
I want them to go and visit the powerful ladies.com. Mm-hmm. Go to Tools, click read and see all the awesome books that I love. Our guests. Love You. Click on that picture. You can buy 'em. And guess what? Every time you buy a book there you help support powerful ladies.
What? I know? What? Listen guys, if you love what we're doing, support us. Buy some books and powerful ladies, do it today. Support yourself. Support yourself and your brain. And buy some books. I should know. I don't read. I should read. And now Jordan is fired from the Power Police because this is a literacy promoting organization and we can't have her spreading that nonsense.
I'm
gonna read.
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Follower her on Instagram @katierhajec
Visit her on LinkedIn /katiehajec
Email her at katiehajec@gmail.com
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
