Episode 207: The Lawyer Every Entrepreneur Needs In Their Corner | Kelly Galligan | Corporate M&A Partner
Every entrepreneur deserves a lawyer who sees the whole picture, not just the paperwork. For Kara, that person is Kelly Galligan. As a corporate lawyer and M&A partner, Kelly helps founders and business owners navigate everything from equity to exits. But more importantly, she makes her clients feel safe, empowered, and heard. In this episode, Kara and Kelly talk about what true legal partnership looks like, why every founder needs a trusted advisor on their team, and the most common legal missteps to avoid when building a business. They also get personal: from mental health and wellness in demanding careers to what it really means to be a powerful woman in a male-dominated field. Whether you're thinking about starting something or scaling what you’ve already built, this conversation is packed with clarity, confidence, and a whole lot of actionable advice.
“Entrepreneurs have a different energy. There’s a zest for life, a spark of their eye and it’s contagious.”
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 How Kara and Kelly met in the startup world
01:15 What it actually means to be an M&A lawyer
03:20 Why startups need legal advice earlier than they think
06:10 The top mistakes founders make
08:50 How to build trust with your legal team
11:30 From rural roots to BigLaw partner
13:45 Building confidence as a woman in corporate law
16:20 Managing work, kids, and her own ambition
18:50 What founders should know before raising money
21:00 Balancing legal risk with business vision
23:15 The power of clear communication in law and life
25:00 What she’s mentoring women lawyers to do differently
27:45 What she needs now and where she’s headed next
I help entrepreneurs who grown their businesses for years from the ground up, a lot of times from nothing, and I'm the person that they work with when. Somebody comes to them and says, Hey, you've worked hard. I wanna buy your company for 20 million, 50 million, a hundred million. And these individuals who could never have imagined that their hard work could
pay off that way.
That's Kelly Galligan. I'm Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Welcome to the Powerful Ladies podcast. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited. I'm excited. I, first of all, am so glad that Angie connected us, so everyone listening, Angie is my business coach. I'm a coach. I believe in coaches. I have a coach. She's amazing. And I always wanna have a handful, usually around three to five.
Experts that I can recommend to my clients around the world in accounting financial advisors, business insurance, and of course we need them for law. And she connected me to you when I asked, and I think I have sent every person I work with since then to you because of how easy it is to work with you and your team.
So before I go on a why we love you so much, rant, let's tell everyone your name, where you are in the world, and what you're up to.
Awesome. Yeah, no, it's been so great to get to know you through Angie. My name is Kelly Lucinda Galligan, and I am a partner at Rattan and Tucker, which is Orange County's largest full service law firm.
Specifically there I'm a general corporate lawyer, so I do anything, any type of, entrepreneur might need, I can help you review or revise your contracts. You're raising money, I can help you out there. If you have board needs, someone to prepare your board minutes, I do that. But I would say the bulk of my legal work is mergers and acquisitions, helping companies buy and sell other companies.
If when you were eight years old, did you imagine that you would be this badass lawyer?
No, I did not know what a mergers and acquisitions attorney was at eight. However, weirdly from a really young age, all I knew was I wanted a job where I got to wear like really cool heels and suits. Like I always knew I wanted that image, but I didn't know exactly what it meant.
I love that. No. 'cause there is, there's that vision of what it looks like to see a woman in power and handling business and Yeah. Any of us who grew up in the, eighties, nineties, there's definitely a power suit vibe that we have been like impressed with. There's something badass about it that you're drawn to as a young girl.
For sure. Yeah. What has surprised you the most about being a lawyer and how it aligns with your personal, like passions and commitment and like, how does it fill your soul up in ways you weren't expecting?
Yeah, so I got into law, not from a personal values perspective, I didn't, my dog's waking up just in time.
Yeah, I got into law, thinking I wanted to do very pointedly actually, when I was in law school, I decided I wanted to do private company m and a, which is what I do now. And at the time I wasn't, I was just very, driven and focused on this is what I want to do from a career press perspective, but I wasn't taking into account.
How is that gonna fulfill all my personal values? Fortunately enough, what I stumbled into was my practice of predominantly sell side m and a, which is I help entrepreneurs who, in, in the Orange County space, they've typically grown their businesses for years from the ground up. A lot of times from nothing, a lot of times for growing their own salaries for many years, taking a lot of risk for themselves and their families to grow these businesses. And I'm the person that they work with. When somebody comes to them and says, Hey, you've worked hard. I wanna buy your company for 20 million, 50 million, a hundred million.
And these individuals who could never have imagined that their hard work could pay off that way, get that type of reward. And there's no one more deserving, there's no one who's more appreciative of it. I, I cannot believe that, and pushing for what I consider this incredibly, like amazing badass high power job ended up also being so soul fulfilling as well.
Because you really get to be with these very incredibly deserving people on one of the most exciting days of their lives,
and just how cool to be a part of that, but also just to witness it like happening live in front of you.
Oh, absolutely. And you really get close to these individuals.
You are the first person, they, maybe after their husband or wife, the first person they talk to, they when they wake up and the last person they talk to when they go to bed and you're with them around the clock during this process. And you, there's nothing that'll restore people's faith in humanity than getting to work with, this is why everyone loves small business owners.
These people are salt of the earth, genuine people. Yeah. And I can't tell you the amount of. Business owners who, when they go to sell their first thought isn't, I can't wait to buy this car, or this house, or this vacation. That's very high up on their list. But what they are most concerned about and what they want to talk to me about most is what's happening to my business after my I sell, who's taking care of my employees?
And something that's really cool is you will, I see I've seen this countless times and every single time it still floors me. They will take money out of, their purchase price proceeds and start handing out bonuses bonuses that weren't promised out of their own pocket to these individuals that, are loyal to them and stayed with them throughout this.
And it's just it's an incredibly powerful experience all around, for sure.
What I also find fascinating about you is. For a lawyer who has been recently promoted congratulations and is just crushing it at work. You seem to have all of this capacity for being with your friends, for being outdoors, for golfing, like you seem to live the most balanced life of a lawyer I have ever witnessed.
How do you do it? Is that a priority? Like how do you make sure that you are not just working, but also living? That is so
incredibly flattering because that is something I feel like I struggle with. Every single day. So it, it means a lot that it feel, it feels, it looks least of the outside world that I've, that I'm juggling it all.
Because it's a balance every day. And of course, we all, we all say I'd love to work out, I'd love to get time outside. I'd love to walk my dog. I wanna cook a healthy meal. I wanna respond to every single email that comes into my inbox. I wanna spend time with my family.
I wanna spend time with my friends. How do I do it? You cannot, is the answer. Yeah. And every day, something will fall by the wayside. And you try to balance it the next day and you say, oh, I haven't seen my family in a few weeks. I've gotta, I, I can't. I, you just you make sacrifices here and there to make it all work, but
I will say, at least, I would say on average five times a day, I have an internal conversation with myself and I just, you wake up in the morning, you look at your schedule and everyth you have I, I'm a big schedule person, so everything is here. There's no, like I will even say 15 minutes.
Cut, cut up your salad. Like I love the schedule life. And then of course the emails start coming in. The calls start coming in. And you're like, but this doesn't fit into my schedule. And you take a step back and every day I have this conversation multiple times. How do you eat an elephant Kelly? One bite at a time and just respond to the next email, just res, and you just keep going and it always works.
Somehow, even though it feels like it's not going to. But it's every day. I don't know,
I, to me, my calendar is the most important thing I have. If it's not my calendar, it's not happening. I have to put in like workout, I have to put in, take lunch. 'cause I've been recording. This is my fourth podcast recording today.
Goodness. And there's that in such a way where I, like I happened to finish all the other edits I had to do for the last episode, 20 minutes before our call. And I was like, yes, I can have lunch today. Like I'm like, this is amazing. And what a luxury. Such a luxury. And that's why I think it's so funny when you hear people talking about.
How painful it is in like the corporate world today. Like we didn't even get to have lunch today, and I'm like, me neither. Not that we should be celebrating that, but those things don't go away when you work for yourself at all.
Yeah, I believe it. Yeah. This this past year, it has been this, the idea of wellness from like a, both a physical and a mental standpoint, has been my number one focus.
I, for, I graduated law school during law school throughout my practice. I'm starting my eighth year now. My, my top priority has always been you build a, most you are, it's work, work first. And you slowly realize over time that you're like I'm getting a little less healthy.
I'm a little like getting a little more winded when I walk up those stairs. And it is absolutely. All the success in the world is not gonna be worth it if I just completely let myself physically and mentally deteriorate. So I totally, I take, I'm, now I'm sometimes unapologetically I'm taking lunch I'm gonna use the bathroom because I've had to go for three hours.
Yes. And I know these go, I know these calls keep coming in, but I'm gonna tell somebody I'm gonna be five minutes 'cause. It's like a, it's a matter of personal wellness type of thing. So I am trying, it's hard, but I am trying to prioritize that stuff more.
And I think as well, when you're in a role where one of your tools is how you show up physically, like what you're wearing, how you're standing, like that's part of the toolkit that you use when you're in negotiations in particular or in an actual court.
If you have a different command when you are someone who is healthy than someone who is not. And whether we like it or not, that's how jurors are listening to you. That's how other people in the room are like, it changes it. So I think it's so important and this is not just for lawyers. I think entrepreneurs need it as well.
And anyone who's in a leadership powerful position. You have to remember that your personal health and wellness is part of the entire package that you are using to tell your story and communicate and make things happen.
I could not agree more, and I've, now that I've gotten so into this, I've started reading studies on how, your mind can work so much stronger, like creatively if you have.
If you get some sunlight, if you go for a walk. So now I'll draft something and then I'll say, okay, Cody, my dog right there. We're gonna go out, we're gonna go out for 30 minutes. Whereas before, I would've, no, we'll power through. It's great. It's great, but I think I'm a better lawyer.
My clients are better served. When I take those short little breaks and take care of myself, it's the only way I can Yeah. Be the best lawyer I can be. Absolutely.
What are some things that you wish business owners knew about the law and how it can, more likely than not, help them and be something that they should be using more often?
Yeah, I I think, I wanna go both ways with this question. Yeah. First, I will acknowledge that a lot of businesses are run through handshake deals, and I think when I first started out, I was, as a lawyer, you're, so the first thing you're taught is that sounds horrible.
The risk, the potential exposure. That's a terrible idea. Then once you start to get a little more involved in businesses, you realize that it is incredibly practical and that's the way a lot of businesses run. And it's what is feasible for a lot of businesses. And I'm okay with it from a risk perspective, a lot of times I'm okay with it.
On the other side of that. There are countless times where, you know, clients come to us after they've drafted their own, services or purchase type agreement and there was a dispute and it's, honestly, if you gave us five minutes to look at a contract, that provision that was ended up being in dispute would've been the first thing we pointed out.
This is a huge red flag and is if there's any dispute between the parties down the road, it's gonna be related to this provision. You need to clean it up. Something super similar, simple. It would've been. 20 to 30 minutes of your lawyer's time at the outset is now, a hundred thousand, $500,000 litigation matter because you didn't think it was worth it.
So what I have started seeing a lot of clients do is particularly, particularly with your clients that you send me, they're at the very early startup stage.
It does not, it does, it's not feasible for them to spend, hundreds of thousands of dollars with me to review their contracts.
It's just not, they would go out of business before they would make any money. I acknowledge that. But what they're doing is they'll say, Hey, can you just. Five minutes, take a look at this. Hey, these 10 contracts are the value's incredibly low? The risk profile's incredibly low. We're providing some type of service.
One of the chances, it's very low risk, however, this is our number one customer, or this individual's going to be having in incredibly access to incredibly proprietary information. This is where I wanna spend my money on a lawyer and kind of focus on high risk areas. I think that's, that is worth the investment to save from a, an expensive dispute down the road.
For sure.
Yeah, and I think that's what I've so appreciated with working with you and your team is that you guys are open to those small conversations to get people moving because there's, there are areas that really make people feel founders fraud at a different level. It's when they aren't looking at their numbers, they don't have an accountant, they have contracts that they piecemealed based on what they found on the internet.
Like they're so worried about all the things that they don't know. They don't know that they do know they're doing wrong. So like having access to a team of lawyers that you guys offer where people, you can say, just look at it for five minutes. I'm panicking. Like just tell me, is this like a 70% risk or a hundred percent?
Like I need to know that. Space. It matters so much because you just wanna be able to move forward with confidence, or at least not panicking if it's like somewhere between the two. I don't wanna panic about this and I also don't like, how can I move forward? And that's having that momentum that you talked about of being accessible and moving people forward.
That's what I think matters so much when we're bringing in an expert because. To your point, we can't spend a hundred thousand dollars to do all the things that, we should and we probably know we should. So what can I do right now so I can take a step forward and come back to you and be like, okay, now that we actually have money, what else should we be fixing?
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. 'cause I've always, I always think of myself and I try to practice as an entrepreneurial type lawyer. So the way you're describing is exactly what I try to do. You try to be realistic for your clients and provide them, of course, I could give you. Ex, worst case scenario after worst case scenario and I could spend millions of dollars making sure every single thing in your toolkit is perfect.
But it's not realistic. So I do appreciate you saying
that. Yeah, of course. We're on the Powerful Ladies podcast. Of course. So when you hear the words powerful and ladies, what do those definitions mean to you separately? And do they change when those two words are put next to each other?
Oh, I love that question.
Powerful I would say is your, is how I would describe the, your impact outside of yourself. Just how you're impacting the world and people in your universe. Ladies can mean absolutely anything, especially in the professional context. And anyone who identifies as a lady has a different definition of it.
And I love that. I have, I work with some women who say, lady to me means I keep up with the men and I am one of the men in the room. My handshake is the firmest. And then, women who say I'm the lady and I. I negotiate from a place I'm unassuming and I'm soft and I'm gonna, but I actually know more than every other person in this room.
And I'm, people come about lady in such a different perspective and I think lady is such a, it's a very broad term. And then when they come together, somehow I think it's how it, to me, it's how women support each other in the profession or in, just in, in life generally. I was I was jogging with my girlfriend last week and we were talking about, we saw one of my girlfriends posted on social media about.
A woman, a female leader in the community who'd reached out to her when she was in law school and was a supporter of hers and this woman was telling a story, that, I met this incredible woman. I really looked up to her in law school. She's been there throughout my career. And it was incredibly powerful.
And the end of her whole post was, I would love to, to do that for people going forward. And what was so funny about her post is this is a girl in law school. She was a classmate of mine. I knew her, but we weren't super, super close. But I can't tell you anytime I've ever posted anything on social media, put myself out there.
There. She's one of the very first people to say, congrats, Kelly. You're killing it. I can't, you keep going, girl. Like she's so she's posting this thing like, I, I can't, I really want to be the type of woman who pays it forward and does the same thing for women that come after me.
And I'm like, girl, you are doing it every single day. That is who you are as a person.
And so when my friend and I were running, we were talking about this dynamic and we were both concluding that women who have had other women or it can be men or women before them who've, who really.
Instead of looking back and pulling up the ladder behind them and saying, I, I had to do X, Y, Z to get where I am. So you need to do X, Y, Z if you wanna be where I am too. Instead, they've had people reach out a hand and say. I wanna advocate for you. I believe in you, I trust you.
I wanna give you these opportunities. I wanna support you in any way I can. It just creates a different mind, a natural, it naturally creates a different mindset in these individuals, and they become people who, without even thinking about it in the world, they're supporting other individuals. And it's, it almost has this ripple effect.
And that is powerful ladies. If anything is, it's, yeah. It's not, I'm powerful because I reached X, Y, Z position. I'm powerful because something I did touched this young woman and this young woman is now out in the world doing the same to other people. And that to me, there's nothing more powerful
than that.
That's incredible. The ripple effect is amazing and yeah it's amazing when you can see it in front of you and be able to be present with that moment, but so often. We have no idea the number of people that we've impacted and we also forget everyone who's impacted our lives too. So I do really value those moments when you can be like, this is it right now.
This is what we've been working for. I just had, I was in New York this past weekend and we hosted, there were two things. One was a book launch party for a client, and it was super incestuous in the KDCC world of, it was my client's book, and she worked with another client to publish it and another client to do pr.
And they crushed it. There were 500 RSVPs for this event. It was bigger than the event that the same organization did with Eminem a few months ago. And I'm like, look at what happens when all of these heart led business owners are coming together to make an impact. It's so much bigger than if it was Penguin Random House and who knows who.
And like the, I feel sometimes that the bigger, or not necessarily bigger 'cause I want people to be growing to their optimum potential. But when we start removing the why we're doing something from the business, the results that we can produce completely change. And it was really cool to see people really focus on their why and what you can do when the why is present.
Yeah. I love it. And you were absolutely a part of that ripple effect. You were posting about the event on your social media leading up to it. You were talking it up and you showed up for your friend, and it is a client, but a friend at the same time and you're constantly doing that and those, showing up and being there and showing support are little things that you do to be that, and we all do to be like a part of that ripple effect and yeah. It is, it's like incredible how powerful it can be over time as it snowballs.
When you look at what you're creating for this year, what are you excited about? What does 2023 have on your to-do list and your to manifest list?
Oh, IL so I love goal setting, so I did my my, I did 23 and 2023, and that was.
A ton of fun, a little overwhelming sometimes when you look at all the things you wanna accomplish in a year. But, eating the elephant one bite at a time. Creating though, I, let's see, two things come to mind. The first is I think my law practice will be a little bit different this year because of what's going on in the markets and the economy.
I think. D m and a has been so hot for so long and I think it still will be, but I think deals are looking a little bit differently and I think we're gonna have to get a little more creative in the way we practice law. It's not just ah, we have unlimited money to go buy unlimited things.
Let's just. The real money and then the sellers get the money and it's not like that right now. But I think that there are still a lot of deals to be had. We're just working differently and creatively with clients and it's fun, actually. It's,
So I've already started noticing that.
So from a creative perspective, I'm excited about that. And then another thing that comes to mind when you bring up creativity is in January, I think you've seen this, my, one of my colleagues and I, she sits in the office next to mine. We launched a and how do you even describe this? A. M and a social media kind of marketing TikTok campaign, I guess you would call it.
It's we created a TikTok account. It's called Girl Next Office. She's in the office next to mine. We close deals, it's late at night. We get a little goofy. And we've always said there's something to this, there's something to our energy and our, we both love our jobs.
We love what I, we do and it's fun. So it's a. It's like an m and a adjacent TikTok where we, we post substantive content, but at the same time we're also posting trending TikTok dances or voiceovers or whatever. But everything's kind of m and a themed. That's actually surprisingly, has been a total creative outlet and it's a ton of fun and it's goofy.
I will fully acknowledge that I'm a 30 5-year-old partner. Orange County's largest full service law firm who's launched a TikTok. Like I fully acknowledge the humor behind all of that. But I don't even care. It's a ton of fun, and we're having a blast doing it. We're just, we're like still honing in on our voice right now, and it's just us being who we are and a little bit goofy and a lot of energy.
Ladies, a ton of fun.
I, to me, I love it because it's speaking to who you are from a 360 perspective. So often when we are so focused on representing our brand and our business, it can be very serious. And you work in a very serious industry, and it's not common for a lawyer to talk about fashion or to show you having fun and to allow yourself to be all of you.
I choose to work with you because of who you are. Completely not because, just because oh, you're a great lawyer, that's great, but the fact that you have this whole. Life spectrum that you talk about or show or there's such a relaxed approach to you that I don't think most lawyers have, and it really makes it more interesting and desirable and fun to work with you.
I constantly tell clients to. Be the unicorn that you are because you'll find your dream clients that way. And to me, this is just another ex extension of you being and telling people the unicorn that you are because you are fun and you are lighthearted, and you're also amazing at your job. And you can be all of those things there.
There's no but statement in, there's all ants.
I love that. Thank you. It's definitely a, like a vulnerable thing to put yourself out there, especially as you're mentioning this is a very buttoned up profession. Yeah. And to show that kind of like fun, playful side of yourself is a little bit vulnerable in this industry.
But
yeah, we're doing it and we're having fun. I just like seeing how it's changing also, right? Because there's. There's this stereotype of what a lawyer is, especially an m and a lawyer, and then there are the people who are actually there and doing it, and it's just every other industry.
There's all sorts of people who are there. So why not let people know that not only do you get great work, but. You might wanna hang out with me too. You're welcome.
You're absolutely right. And it's like funny to try to totally hide it because it's not not a single m and a lawyer is not a human and doesn't have this personal side to themselves.
But you're right, we, we have to like, we pretend like we don't, but we do. Yeah. We're all like a little weird when we go home and we're all a little goofy with our own families. Yeah.
All of us. All
of us. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
You've done an amazing job of networking and using the community to build up your brand and your business.
What are some tips you would give people? 'cause a lot of people hear the word networking and they hate it. I always replace it with go make friends. But you've really stepped into that. So what are some actions you've taken and what do you recommend to other people?
I love the go make friends approach.
That is 100% the approach I take to it. Yeah. I love, I'm have an incredibly outgoing personality. I love a big room of people and a glass of wine and an opport, like that's a par to me, that's a party. Yeah. To other people. That sounds miserable. And they would rather do, a two hour, one-on-one lunch and really get to know somebody.
Or for them networking is, they don't wanna talk to anybody. They wanna. Sit and write an article that's gonna reach a ton of people to everyone. Networking looks different. So I would say find what works with you. If you're, the way you describe it is making friends is what's your friend making style like?
I love, I'm a, the more the merry type of person. If I, for my birthday, my favorite thing would be to tell all of my girlfriends, we're all gonna go somewhere together. I don't, I just think it's, I love the big group atmosphere, but it's not for everyone. So I would say find what works for you personally.
And networking can be in incre. Incredibly rewarding. I, weirdly enough, the, when I started practicing, you start, you tend to be, I tended to meet a lot of young female lawyers, for example. Is like where my networking began. And they have become an arm I, my very best friends in this world.
So it, it literally was go make some friends and I made friends and they're super relatable 'cause they're doing the same thing I am. And it's incredibly easy when you're networking is, Hey, these individuals who might be referring me business or who might be potential clients happen to be my best friend.
So yeah, let's, let's go on a ski trip together. Let, yeah, let's, and that, that's networking. Men figured that out before women did for sure. How many, I remember being a first year associate and you look up at these male partners. 'cause back then there were a lot more male partners than females.
And they're doing these golf trip, these week long golf trips. Yeah. And they're networking and they're their very best friends and they're but they're getting deals from it. It is networking. It's definitely business development. I don't see why women can't do that too. It doesn't, if you don't like golf, it doesn't have to be golf.
Maybe it, maybe it's skiing, maybe it's cooking, maybe it's walking. Maybe it's, it could be freaking anything. But networking does not need to be talking to people you don't like and eating, rubber chicken dinners that you don't like. It could absolutely be girls' trips or whatever, fancy. Like anything you'd like for sure.
And I think one of the areas where new business owners also feel it's sticky is this idea of don't work with your friends or family. Keep it really professional. Don't cross the line. It can be risky even legally to cross the line of things.
And my advice is always breaking that down to figure out like, what do we need to communicate? What do we need to put in writing? What do we need to do? So that. We can honor the relationship but not miss out on the opportunity to have this amazing person and their brain on our team. And I love that you're going on trips with everybody.
'cause my rule is I want dream clients that I will go on vacation with. That's it. If I don't wanna go on vacation with you or I don't know yet, you're in like the, figuring it out Q but the people who I'm working with long term. I always am talking to, I'm always referring things. I, that's who I wanna hang out with because it is really exciting conversations in addition to growing the business.
So from your personal and your professional experience opinion as the lawyer, where do you think that line is with being friends and keeping it professional?
It's definitely somewhere yeah, it's, yeah, it's, I'm not asking my friends for personal loans or anything. You have, there's some, there are for sure.
Boundaries. But you're, you, so you're the same way as me. You work with somebody and you can get totally drawn into and invested. And them and their success. Think of how much better you are at your job when you work with people that you actually care about. Because you maybe bill them for a session, between two and 3:00 PM but then maybe you grab a drink with them at 5:00 PM and then maybe you guys end up chatting on the phone or texting or you send them a meme later on social media or you go for a walk.
Okay. You are providing, or you're just thinking about them. You're just lying in bed thinking about them. 'cause it's an actual relationship and an actual friendship. You are personally invested in what you do for them. And they could hire. You, Kara, or they could hire, Joe. And Joe's not gonna have that personal touch with them, and they're not gonna get as good of service because they are not working with somebody who has like a personal investment in them.
So absolutely there are huge benefits to working with people that care about you personally, for sure. I, so let's say your sister, Carrie, say your sister works, works with you and so does super demanding Martha and your, Martha needs you. Martha needs you, your sister.
Sometimes, sorry, I don't even know if you have a sister. Say your sister's name is Betty. Sorry, Betty. And Mar Martha's calling again. I gotta go. I'll call you back. It's absolutely the case that sometimes the people that you're closest to. We'll maybe get put behind somebody in line who's, who you're less close to, who you have more of a professional relationship with.
But I don't, I think you can still work with them as long as you're not overreaching and yeah. No, I think it's totally doable and I think if anything it, you can have. The absolute best possible service by working with people that have a personally invested relationship with you.
Yeah. And there are so many situations where clients would say the perfect person is for this role. They were looking for my cousin, my sister-in-law my best friend. And I'd be like why are we passing up on perfect? Because you know them like. That we get so nervous about having to actually communicate our feelings and our expectations and the boundaries that we wanna have.
So it's been more of that journey. But I'm glad to hear you say that you as a lawyer personally, practice having deeper relationships with your clients. It makes me feel better about it.
Yeah. If you're, Carrie, you're gonna do the work either way with person A or person B. Why not work with person A that you're in love with?
Yeah.
It just makes your job much more rewarding.
Yes. And I'm also wondering if we share this about, falling in love with the people that we're working with. What I notice on like my personal relationships and dating, I'm really good at seeing possibility in people. And it hasn't like harvested yet.
I'm like, oh, I'm in love with you as the possibility, not you right now. So I have to like, keep that in check quite often. Totally.
But what an amazing, opportunity for them to be with somebody. Like it's so cool to have a relationship with somebody in your position. Because that's what you do for a living.
That, socially they're also incredibly lucky 'cause they're working with this woman who, for a profession, brings out the best in people and sees the best in people, and tries to push people in the right direction. Granted, might get annoying sometimes. Kara, I'm not trying to advance, I wanna have a night where I cry and eat cookies.
Yes. But that's it. That's incredibly valuable for them too to get that from you.
Thank you. I think as we are looking at what it means to be a powerful lady today, and so much is changing, and I feel really great that we are both part of generations where all the rules are continuing to shift and there's more there's more diversity, there's more voices being heard.
There's just more access and visibility. How has the changing landscape of, the lawyer landscape shifted in a way that. Makes you sigh relief for your own goals and where you wanna see the industry moving forward.
Yeah. I feel like I have come into the legal community at an incredibly fortune time.
Maybe the, not only is it not a disadvantage to being a woman, it is a huge advantage, yeah. The leaders in the community that I'm, that I'm coming up behind. Predominantly female at this point. It's, it's not, the women ahead of me who are in those positions didn't have that.
I'm, in my experience, it seems like I'm the first generation who's working under women who've already made it. So I have the role model, I have the opportunity but I still have the advantage of being like the female minority, particularly in the m and a space. It's still pretty male dominated because it is an incredibly.
Demanding position. And it's definitely one where if you have ki it's challenging for people who have kids, because if a deal's going on, you don't you don't say no to certain things. You can't just say, I have to leave the office 'cause I have to pick up my kid, or I wanna be home to check the kid in the, the answer from the client is sometimes, and no I don't know what to tell you.
So for that reason there. There still are, I think a few less females in the m and a industry. And it is a huge advantage to be one of few women in your industry, but at the same time, to have every opportunity that a man has. In fact, I think in seeing the way women work, another advantage we have as lawyers is we, I don't know if it's that we have a softer side, but we're at least not afraid to express that softer side.
So we're not uncomfortable working with clients and being compassionate towards them or. Talking, playing a little bit of that therapist role, whereas I think a lot of men were trained that's not how you practice law. You're very stoic and this is, these are the deal terms, this is how it is, and women often are more comfortable taking a software approach, and that can definitely help in negotiations.
And now I'm just gonna overgeneralize, but women are also incredible at multitasking, there's a ton of, there's the amount of moving pieces in an m and a transaction is mind blowing. The expression herding cats is so apt and women are incredibly good at it. We can. It's biologically, or for whatever reason, we can see a lot of moving pieces happen.
We can see outta the corner of where I know that's moving over there and I know that's moving over there and I'm focused here. And that's an incredibly valuable thing for m and a attorneys. So I think, not only are I'm I not seeing challenges, I'm only seeing opportunities for me, for the women ahead of me.
There's I have incredibly strong associates underneath me right now, and these women aren't. And men, but excelling like unbelievably well. So I, I think the opportunities are endless and I feel very fortunate that I stepped into this position at the exact right time.
We know that everyone who may wanna work with you may not have the opportunity 'cause there's just capacity.
So if someone is looking to work with a lawyer for their business, what are some things you recommend that they ask about or look for when they're making that choice?
Sure. So I, my heart lies with like entrepreneurial spirit. That is absolutely what gets me. People who have the entrepreneurial energy is.
You have my heart. I just have so much I'm so sold by it. There's nothing more invigorating than someone who says, I started this business. And then, their eyes start lighting up as they start telling you about it. And you won't believe this contract and, oh, I need your legal work.
You will not believe this a contract we're about to sign. This is gonna absolutely change the industry. I've been so excited to work with this key partner. It's incredibly innovative. Oh and by the way, I also need to talk to you next week because I have this other idea. There's this like energy that entrepreneurs have and it's like this zest for life and they're just excited.
And we all meet people in this world who just, they sit back and they're a little bit dead in the eyes. And regardless of how successful they are. There's not a lot of, they're not super dynamic and they're not pulling you in. But then you meet these entrepreneurs.
That's why, seriously why I love my job. You meet these entrepreneurs and they have this spark in their eye and it's like they can't shut up and they don't want to, and you don't want them to. And it's contagious. That I will work with all day, every day. If you have that energy and you say, let's do it, and guess what?
We're gonna pull an entire week of all-nighters. 'cause this is that exciting to me. I will run on your energy. Let's go. I'm super excited about it. So that's always what gets me going.
And for someone who's looking for a lawyer, what do you recommend they ask to evaluate if it's the right fit for them?
That's a great question.
The first thing to think about is the size of the law firm relative to the size of the business. So there are tons of different types of law firms. You have the big law firms and a lot of what they do is, public company work. A lot of those lawyers at a very early stage bill out at a very high rate.
It's not going to be practical for business owners to use them to drop their contracts. Whereas, you can get into these mid-size firms, Rotan, for example, my firm we're full service. We're, we're massive in Orange County, but we play more in the private company space. So we don't do a lot of that.
Those large international public company matters. We work with, more, some startup work, but more like companies, with enterprise values around like $50 million, a hundred million dollars. So you need a mid-range attorney who's gonna provide, practical, entrepreneurial type business.
Business legal advice still provide you the legal protection and still, making sure you're as protected as possible from a risk perspective, while also being realistic and helping you run your business. There are, maybe you like working with their solo practitioners, people who, used to be at these big firms or used to be in small firms and decided they wanna be solo.
And provide really white glove type services. Maybe they take on one or two type clients. It's, there's, it's 101 dalmatians where every, dog finds its human that looks exactly like him. There's absolutely like a lawyer for every type of business owner too. So I think it's not like the, what questions do you ask?
I think it's just like, why not interview a bunch of lawyers? Why not take 'em all out to lunch and see who fits? And it's, I think you when you know, and chat a bit with about, chat with them, a bit about your business. And see whose eyes glaze over when you start talking about your business and see who leans in and gets a little bit excited about your business idea because you know they're gonna be personally invested and you're gonna wanna work with them.
Yeah, love that. We ask everyone on the podcast where they put themselves on the Powerful Ladies scale. So if zero is an average everyday human and 10 is the most powerful lady possible. Where would you put yourself today and on average,
I am a 10. I am not gonna hesitate with that. I'm absolutely a 10 because I give my best every single day and every single day it looks different.
For sure. Some days my best is a lot less than other days. But I absolutely give my best. One of my very best friends, this is like years ago now, but this has stuck with me. She once was talking about me and she's, off the cuff, made a comment about. Kelly you are the epitome of a rising tide raises all boats.
And I don't even think she knows. I need to tell her this actually, because I've never been more complimented by anything in my entire life. I, and I talked to you earlier about what does powerful ladies mean to me? It means impact in the world, in particular, positive impact in bringing up other people.
And that is absolutely of key importance to me, and I do try to do that all the time. Yeah, I'm giving myself a fricking 10 today.
I like it. And I think it's a great opportunity to acknowledge you as well, because the impact that you have had on my business is also a ripple effect because of everyone I'm working with.
The fact that I know I have you and the team to refer for trademark questions or patents or everyday business questions, all the things having a source to go to. Allows myself and so many of my clients that you guys also work with to sleep at night because we know what we don't know. And knowing that someone else knows that area and loves it and it's where they wanna geek out, so we don't have to, it's so refreshing because we can't do business by ourselves.
We need a community. We need experts to work with. And having you guys is one of those pillars that. Myself and my clients can have and rely on or keep in our back pockets when we need you. It just allows us to focus on doing the things that we have to so we can grow and continue to rise with everyone else around us too.
So thank you for that.
Aw, thank you. And your supports meant so much.
Of course obviously Powerful Ladies is also a big and powerful and capable community. So we're also asking everyone what is something that you need or want that you can ask this group and see who can come back and give it to you, whether it's something that is on your to-do list and small, whether it's something that you're manifesting, what do you wanna put out there to see what the powerful ladies can give back to you?
Oh my gosh, that's a fun question. I. I don't need or want for much. Things are pretty great, but I love, continuing to grow and develop relationships. So if like anyone listens to this and thinks there is something about me that connects, maybe not even, I need your legal services or I know so-and-so who would.
I wanna introduce you two, but from a, I'm another like strong female in the community and I would love to go for a walk with you and your dog one day or go grab coffee with you. I would love to make that connection. I would, that would be absolutely huge to me. So that would be my need,
I love that. So for everyone who wants to do that with you, grab the coffee, go for the walk. Where can they find you, follow you, and connect with you? Since I've already
plugged the TikTok, definitely you need to follow us on TikTok and Instagram. We're girl Next office. But me as a Nont talker you can find me online at, if you Google Kelly Galligan lawyer, that'll always come up.
My email is K Galligan. That's K-G-A-L-L-I-G-A-N at rutan, RUTA n.com. Also on Instagram, LinkedIn, Kelly Galligan. You can find me anywhere. It's easy to find people nowadays, but IL feel free to reach out. I would absolutely love that.
It has been such a pleasure to have you in my life and now to have you on the podcast and share you.
With everyone listening, thank you so much for taking the time today and giving us your advice and wisdom, and I can't wait to see what we're gonna create together this year. Thank you so much. That was so fun. Kara.
All the links to connect with Kelly and Ratan are in our show notes@thepowerfulladies.com. Subscribe to this podcast wherever listening, and please leave us a rating and review. They're critical for podcast visibility. Come join us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies or at Kara Duffy, and if you want to book a meeting with me, visit kara duffy.com.
I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
