Episode 235: The Legal Rights They Never Taught You | Reb Masel | Lawyer, TikTok Creator, Host of Rebuttal
Reb Masel is a practicing attorney and the creator behind the viral TikTok and podcast brand Rebuttal. In this re-release episode, Reb and Kara talk about what it really means to have rights if no one teaches you how to use them, and how she's using humor and plain language to close that gap. They break down the biggest misconceptions about the legal system, how media and politics distort legal understanding, and what every citizen should know about the law but probably doesn't. Reb also shares why she's not going into politics (yet), how her eight-year-old self keeps her grounded, and why humor might be the most powerful legal tool we have.
This is a conversation about systemic knowledge gaps, public access to power, and becoming the loud, opinionated version of yourself...on purpose.
“A country that grants their citizens constitutional rights, that they then decline and refuse to teach their citizens about, has not granted any rights at all.”
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
(00:02:33) Becoming an Attorney Without a Childhood Dream
(00:04:00) What Civil Defense Litigation Actually Covers
(00:08:45) How Trying Everything Helped Her Find Her Legal Niche
(00:10:20) The Courtroom Is Funnier Than You Think
(00:13:30) Breaking Down the Law for the Internet
(00:15:30) Why Legal Rights Are Useless If You’re Not Taught Them
(00:20:15) Understanding Police and Politician Power Gaps
(00:23:45) What Really Shapes U.S. Law (Hint: It’s Not Politicians)
(00:26:15) Civic Participation vs. Social Media Awareness
(00:28:30) How Generations of Women Made Her Career Possible
(00:30:30) Reb’s Definition of a Powerful Lady
(00:32:30) Seeing Yourself Through the Eyes of 8-Year-Old You
(00:36:00) Showing Up Unapologetically and Filling the Space You’re Given
(00:38:15) Why Reading Romance Novels Is Her Self-Care
(00:42:00) Work Is Part of Life. Here’s How She Makes It Enjoyable
(00:45:15) What Reb Needs from the Powerful Ladies Community
A country that grants their citizens constitutional rights or legal rights that they then decline and refuse to teach their citizens about has not granted any rights or protections.
At all. That's Rev Maisel. I'm Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
I would love to just jump in and tell everyone your name, where you are in the world, and what you're up to.
My name is RevB Nasal. I am in California. In the United States of America. I am a practicing attorney. I am a creator on TikTok. I am the host of a podcast called Rebuttal. I am a sister. I am a multitasker.
I am 50 million places at once.
Yeah, we were just talking about how it has felt like a month every day in the past week. I a hundred percent. Had a client I talked to yesterday and I hadn't talked to 'em since maybe Thursday, and I was like, where have you been? Like, were you on vacation? What's happening?
They're like, it was just a regular week. I'm like, oh, it was just a week. It did not feel like a week in my world.
No, absolutely not. I feel like I lived several different lives every Tuesday.
Yeah. Let's just start with the being attorney part. How did you decide to become attorney? Is that what 8-year-old you imagined and how is it different than what you expected?
I did not decide to become an attorney until about six months before my first day of law school. And even then I was like this is a fun right? Try and error. We'll see how this works out. My plan as an 8-year-old was to be a veterinarian, of course, right? Loved animals. Thought that was what I was gonna do, and then to my shock and horror and surprise, you need to know science to do that.
It's not really so much an empathy, right? Yeah. Driven field like it is. But the science and math probably you should tackle first. That was devastating. I always loved to read. I was always really good at school. I loved school. I still loved school. And I was good at it as a kid. I was good at it, so I thought.
I don't know what I wanna do. Veterinarians out. I am just going to go to school for as long as I can. I'll go to grad school. After college, I'll get my master's in history. I'll write a book. I'll read some books. I'll marry rich. Like all of the options that could possibly be available to me.
Other than just. A job I hated. And my senior year of college, my roommate who is now my best friend, Talia, she's an attorney now too. She brought home some LSAT study books and I said, what's that? She's oh, you should, yeah, she should take the lsat. Aren't you good at reading and writing?
And I said, not to toot my own horn, but a but yeah. That was, yeah, the rest is history. And to your question about how it compares to what I was expecting. This honestly, I think is. What I was expecting when you're someone who had no expectations at all going into it. My parents aren't attorneys.
No one in my family are attorneys. I didn't have friends who were attorneys. No, I was the first of my, I was the pioneer of all ever of everyone I knew which as it just someone, my own personality. I thrive in that environment. I love launching myself into new things. So every day is a new experience.
Every day is a new fun. Lesson and classroom. Every courtroom is a classroom ultimately.
And are you on prosecution, defense? What type of attorney are you
primarily defense in? Civil defense litigation right now. And for people who have no
idea what that means, what does that mean?
So that is the general answer that I give people when I don't wanna get into it for 20 minutes.
Every a lawyer, if you're an attorney listening, you're probably thinking civil defense litigation. That could be anything, right? It's like saying, oh, what fruit do you like? I like fruit. Okay. We'll be specific. Civil defense litigation is where, anyone filing a lawsuit in civil court?
The people who are on the other side of it, the defendants. Sometimes may or may not be represented by me. However, I do also do some plaintiff's work. Sometimes my clients decide that they wanna file some stuff, file some suits, sometimes. I'm a co-defendant, right? I'm representing a co-defendant in a very large lawsuit.
I do everything from. Wrongful death, litigation to products, liability helicopter crashes, right? Helicopters going down in the middle of nowhere. No, it wasn't co Kobe Bryant. And defending one of the manufacturers involved in building that helicopter in one bolt from the helicopter, or employment litigation, breach of contract mergers.
I do IP trademark patent litigation as well. I am very much I wouldn't necessarily say a jack of all trades, more just like a gal of all trades
against my will or otherwise. What I think is really interesting is that most attorneys I know are so specific and they're in such a unique place, and you are so broad what you're covering.
That to me sounds way more fun. Than having to like just do patents or just do, fill in the blank employment law. Not that those areas aren't interesting as well, but part of what I love about what I do is getting to go across different people and projects and things and learn along the way because.
There's always commonalities between different things in a space, but the different nuances and the people and the story behind it, that's what gets interesting. Interesting. From Mely, do you feel the same way? Absolutely.
Yeah. Beyond, my, my head is aggressively nodding. I, you are my person. You are my people.
That is also one of the reasons why I decided to. Go Gungho with law school. It wasn't just the fact that I loved school and, my LSAT score ended up being great. I ended up getting a scholarship, like it financially, it worked out for me. And logistically it did, but also everything I had in mind for myself and my future in five years and 10 years in 20 years.
Always had an element of change. It always allowed me to change if I didn't like something that is, is since I was out of the womb, as my mom would say, that is everything that is true and core to my being is I love tr, I love trying new things. I love trying a lot of different things. I love dabbling in things.
But I don't wanna be stuck and I don't wanna get bored the moment I get bored with something. I'm either zero or 100% and it goes to zero very quickly. And being an attorney, what obviously. Anyone doesn't realize who isn't actually an attorney and doesn't go through law school the same way.
I wouldn't realize how many different types of doctors and medical care professionals there are. Without going to medical school. I could name probably a few, probably a lot, but not all of 'em. Same with being an attorney. You go into law school and look around and realize that you could be 500 different attorneys depending on what path you choose, and at any point.
You could say, hate this, flip a 180 and circle it back and figure it out and go back to square one. And that was what I wanted to do from day one. And that hasn't changed. Even when my bosses ask me, my colleagues ask me, oh, what's your niche like, what are you leaning towards?
I'm like, life, just anything. I'm like, anything interest. Yeah. Anything at all. Because my, the most valuable thing that I ever. I learned in my life from zero to now, and the most valuable thing that I learned through law school and through being an attorney is never finding out what I love.
It's always finding out what I don't enjoy or what I hate first, because then it narrows it down and it's always going to push you toward the path that you love. I found out areas of law that I despise, but. Thankfully know about now and know how to do now, and it's such a great skill to have in a meeting when everyone goes I don't know anything about bankruptcy, and I have to go.
Unfortunately, I can give you some pointers. Yes.
I think what's also really interesting about your approach is that you're bringing humor into law and sharing it with people. I have lawyer friends who will tell me like the stories on the side that are completely ridiculous. I love that you are bringing it to the public because I think there's an illusion that court of law and attorneys on both sides and judges and everyone who's in the room, it's like very serious and professional.
This is serious business. I just recently saw one of your tiktoks that said, talking about a court, a case in Orange County, which is where I live, and the public defender I think said like. How can you expect me to know what I'm supposed to be doing? This is my second case, and I was like, what does who,
what?
I think the, yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. The exact quote was The fact that you think I have any idea what I'm doing is honestly offensive. Like literally, legitimately, I'm offensive. Watch yourself. Keep it cute because I am flying by the seat of my pants and being an attorney is that most of the time I, yeah.
I the humor brought to the law, me bringing the humor to the law is I think of fallacy. I did nothing. All I did was open a window to the shenanigans already happening inside. Everyone on my side of the fence and in my field knows that this is how it's been since the dawn of time. I have a, I saved a transcript the other day from something thousand BC like ac, bbc.
What? Like Egyptian level, like time. And it was like basically a court reporter transcribing. Arabic and the translation was something along the lines of too much. A lot of things were said, but nothing important enough to write down. Nothing at all was said. This has been happening things, the law and case law and disputes and mediations, and being an attorney and being a defendant and being a juror and being a judge is so unserious.
Even though it's one of the most serious and, areas of job and practice and in our system and our society that is so esteemed as it should be, the integrity of it is very important and we should all be striving to build it back up. Yeah. To something better always. But how can we even survive as attorneys if we didn't have a good giggle?
If we didn't have a good laugh? Yeah. And who do you think is, are in those courtrooms? The majority of the people in courtrooms are not attorneys, not judges. They're witnesses, they're regular people. They're jurors, they're defendants, and they're hilarious. They're so great.
I am one of those weird people who like jury duty, but I think it's because I secretly, I'm always like, maybe I should go to law school.
That sounds fun. Like I'm the sicko, like you who's I love school. I love learning what we have to read a lot. You want me to write things? No problem. And being working in business and being a business coach, I see so many areas where. I have a lawyer that I love and refer to a lot of people in the corporate space, but there's, it blows my mind what a gap there is in basic understanding of contracts of what agreements need to be.
I'm so thankful for all the business law classes I did take in school because I just, and I think part of what's the nonsense in society is that stretching gap of people knowing what the law actually is versus what everyone says it is. How do you balance translating that for your clients every day?
And do you lose your mind seeing what people say in the media? 'cause you're like, that's not even what the law actually is.
Yes, of course. Losing my mind is gonna be a given. The fact that so many massive news organizations. Don't have maybe a five minute moment to take, to make a phone call to an attorney, to a consultant, to any type of anyone they know.
It doesn't even have to be someone you have to pay. Like you, y'all don't have friends where you could call 'em up and go, Hey, could you read this court opinion and make sure that my article makes sense? And I'll be like, oh my God. Yeah, no problem. It's shocking to me that they nev, they, truly they never do it.
They never do that. They get. So many things inaccurate, blatantly wrong, or they construe things that, that just don't make sense. Or you read this article and you think, wow, this law sounds horrible. And then you read the actual law attached at the bottom and go, oh, that's not it at all. Happens all the time and happens in every field, I think, right?
Yeah. Any article written about even, stem, computer code, crypto, fair, slanderous one about crypto. I look they're funny. Medical field, right? Anything like that. Everyone has to grit their teeth and bear it, right? Everyone who's actually in the field. But I do think that the reason why I became an attorney and the reason why.
I love it both hand in hand is because being an attorney is not so much being the smart one in the room, being the one who knows everything and anything all the time and just, oh, let me take it from here. Being an attorney to its core is using what you know, your best skills. My best skills were school, right?
I, every day of being an attorney is school. I learn, I consume, I memorize I regurgitate. And I argue information that I have studied that has been drilled into my brain and I use what I'm good at to turn to my client, to turn to someone who's not paid to know this, to turn to someone who shouldn't know this, to turn to someone who has no reason to even have access to some of this information.
I spent. Way too much money, way too much time in school to have everything be googleable, let me tell you. And I am able to turn to that person and explain it to them in a way that makes sense and in a way that will calm their fears or in a way that will at least make sure they know what the hell is going on.
And the best attorneys in my mind, in my honest opinion. Are not those who know everything. They're the ones who are able to explain extremely high level, complex legal concepts to a five-year-old and have them under understand it. Yeah. And so I think that at its core. Being an attorney is way too exclusive.
I think that we should have a mandatory K through 12 class. Several classes, but the, if we wanna pick one criminal procedure on your rights your basic constitutional rights when you're speaking to police, when you're talking to law enforcement, how do you file a lawsuit? What are the basic steps?
What laws in your state. Or just generic would impact you? I any high school student, 14 through 18 could have very easily sat in on any of my law school classes and understood the information. Absolutely. And you can consolidate. I'll teach a damn class. I, it fires me up because. The lack of knowledge and awareness of the legal system laws. Constitutional rights is not the person's, it's never the person's fault. I never fault anyone for not understanding, but even basic principles of contract of law, anything, because where in our education or society, how we prioritize that knowledge. We don't because, oh, it's not for you. When in reality, so many of these problems and issues are self-help. You could totally help yourself if you would've been given the tools to know it and to succeed in it, or to at least, find your resources to be able to know more. And so I think that. From there in law school, from starting from there, learning all of the things I didn't know, zero to 22 years old.
Yeah.
Pissed me off. And I think it translated over to TikTok and, I, I absolutely can't and will not give legal advice over TikTok. I do have a bar license I would like to keep, I do have ethical obligations. I can't just do that willy-nilly, but I, when I'm talking about cases or on my podcast when I'm talking about legal concepts.
Even though it might not be for everyone, my delivery. My I say the F word a lot. I cuss a lot. I use analogies that make no sense to some people. I use humor in every aspect of everything I do not because I wanna be cute and kitschy. It's because people absorb that and they understand it, and it's something that they can relate to and something that to them.
Makes a light bulb go off and they go, oh, this actually is super easy and I totally understand that. Thank you. And then they take it on to someone else. If that's all I did in my life, I would be fulfilled
it. It's why when I saw you on TikTok, I sent it to my team and said she has to be on the podcast because why aren't more people one mad that people don't know basic things that are how we're supposed to be using the laws to our advantage and protection that.
We just don't know. And the approach to it I'm glad you're mad about it, like I want more people to be mad that people don't know their basic fundamental rights. And it's of course, skewed based on economics, based on race, because in the typical family that can protect themselves in quotes. They might have had a lawyer in the family, their parents may have been a lawyer, or they would've had exposure to some of those rights at a different way.
And it's, so I don't think people realize how skewed things can be just because you don't have the information and you don't have the access. And absolutely every day, the two areas that people freak out about. In my circle anyway, are about taxes and about the law of their businesses. And they will have full meltdowns about are is the, am I gonna go to tax jail?
And I'm like, you didn't do anything except file late. They don't put you in jail for that. There might be a fine, but you're gonna be okay. There's so much we don't know what we don't know that everyone just melts down and then takes no action instead.
I my honest. Opinion soundbite on that is simply a country that grants their citizens constitutional rights or legal rights that they then decline and refuse to teach their citizens about, has not granted any rights or protections.
At all. How are you supposed to exercise the rights you are allegedly given if you are given no easily accessible or forced information, right? We all had to sit through math as a kid. Yeah, you might not be good at times tables, but you remember a time, okay, it was in front of your face. You had no choice.
You had no choice. Why we don't prioritize that? I would rather a 14-year-old young kid in our country know that they have the right to refuse consent to a search and they have a right to leave if a law enforcement officer stops them on the street. So long as they ask them if they are free to leave and they say, yes, you can leave.
You do not have to talk to them. I would rather have them know that than know that there are three branches of government. If I had to pick, if you held a gun in my head and said, pick which one? I would say, yeah, the first one for sure. Yeah. Who care. Yes. Oh basic information history about our country.
I'm like, we could filter it and I can prioritize the things that are actually going to devastatingly impact them. And what's unfortunate too is, like you said, people. Act or delay or ignore, or are in denial or just don't even know where to get help. And so they wait on it or, they ignore it or, they get a notice.
They don't really know what it means. And because of that decision, which hinges upon a lack of information, can impact and have a horrible impact on so much of their business, of their life. And they didn't even realize it. They would never have realized it. And it's, yeah, don't even join me.
Something. So I hope, I hope that in, in what I do with what I do it, it will somehow, some way get information in front of people's faces who need it the most.
Yeah, and I think it's leading to the gap in trusting police. It's leading to the gap of trusting politicians. 'cause the how it all works isn't clear.
So there's such an imbalance. They don't know how it works
either. I'm gonna stop you right there. I apologize for interrupting, but on, on God, on, oh my Lord. On whichever God you preach to. Yeah. They are the last people to ask about laws and how the system works on no offense, but also full offense. I can tell you for sure that, I went to school four years of undergrad, three years of law school, six months to take the bar and then pass the bar and get sworn in. Okay? So seven and a half years total, just to have the ability, the right to argue about the laws in court without a weapon, the average amount of training, the average out of all of the police academies in the United States, and this is a factual statistic, the average amount of training for a basic officer.
On the field is 10 to 12 weeks average to learn not only the laws that they're supposed to enforce. That I just said took me, se took me right. Seven year. Yeah. If you wanna cut out undergrad. Okay. Three and a half years Okay. To get down and I had to get a license about, and take a test about, they have 10 to 12 weeks to do all of the weapons training that they do.
Everything else that goes on. And it's related to being a police officer that's included in that. How. Can they have the right to enforce the laws? With a weapon in public, and I can't even argue about them in court with one. Yeah. Politicians are not the one who write the laws that they pass.
Lawyers are they? They hire lobbyists. They hire lawyers to write these laws, to do all these checks. Okay. Yeah. And politicians, they have to get reelected. They don't even they have no idea. The law. The laws that they're passing are all politically motivated and. Most of the law in this country is all judge made it's case law.
It is not based on a statute that I could cite to that, yeah. John Dick and Harry voted in the seventies though. That's like rare. And few and far between all of the interpretations and applications and hard black letter laws. A about the constitution, about statutes that maybe, congress has passed is all lawyers, judges, lawyers, and judges. We are the ones. Who figure it out. We are the ones who are on the lines landscape and the front lines of our rights, of our laws of what's happening. Obviously as an attorney I might be biased, but also as a person, I also know when things are right and when things are wrong.
And that's I think what bothers me the most is of course people aren't going to have trust in their politicians or law enforcement. They're, they honestly, from a lawyer, they don't have a reason to. I don't have a reason to. I don't wanna go into politics for that reason. Yeah, I think I can do more here.
I think that doing more here is such a big declaration. I think that there are so many people taking actions every day that are making our communities better. It's part of why we started this podcast that we hear about these people who. Get regular media news cycle time from the celebrity side to the politician side.
And what are they really doing to impact people's lives at a deep and meaningful way and change things. 'cause it's so much easier to change your house and then your neighborhood and then your town and go up that way. And I think people forget that we. The lack of interest in local elections and what's actually happening from even like development laws, housing zoning, everything.
People get all mad when they're like, how did that building show up? And it's you never went to a town hall meeting. Like you can you be mad. And then it's also were we even invited to your point? I think it's really interesting. I'm single and I don't have kids. And I have no idea what's happening in the town that I live in unless I go out and find it.
Because so much of the information usually passes through the school systems. And it, it's so weird to be disconnected. I'm like, how can I know more about what's happening to a random influencer in France and I don't know what's happening in my own backyard? And
that's a product truly.
Of our social media age, I think one of the drawbacks of it is that we have now gotten comfortable that whatever news and information we want to see, we're going to see. And that's not the reality of it. Especially locally, you are seeing what's on your algorithm based on a million different data points and the likelihood that you're gonna even know.
Because it comes up to you against your will on your feet about a town, town hall meeting that's going to impact your neighborhood is slim. It's unlikely and our society, I think in every society and every world, there's a inherent in being a citizen and being someone who wants to be involved and make a change.
The requirement that you act, the requirement that you go out and find the trouble, you go out and find the problems, you go out and become the solution, and people you know. Tell me all the time, talk to me all the time. Like I said, about getting into politics. And for me, I think that people who aspire to be the president, for example, or a very, Senate, United States House of Reps, Congress person, that's awesome.
And I'm so happy that's your dream. But I don't think that people. Changing and making beautiful changes in the little lives around them is any less important because in order to even create the society that we have, the country that we have, it's all a culmination of the town hall meetings, of the hundreds upon thousands of town hall meetings, of the people passing out flyers of the people on the street going, I really want the sidewalk fixed of the people on the street just doing something kind for their neighborhood.
It doesn't have to be politically related or motivated. Even just spreading information, right? The way that so many creators do online, but also people do in their own schools, among their friend groups and their families. Giving them information about racial disparity in our justice system, giving them information about trans rights and abortion rights, and why the Supreme Court opinions are so devastating to so many more privacy rights.
Outside of abortion that we can even imagine people who are even just doing that and not thinking that it's making a change. Plant seeds that will grow for hundreds of years in my hope and my dream and it's my hope and my dream, but also I know that's how it works because why I'm sitting right here in this chair right now is because a bunch of women, hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, started.
Getting the wheels turning and saying, damn, wouldn't a girl with some vocal fry and a hard wing liner look so good in this courtroom that I'm not even allowed to go in yet because women aren't even allowed to walk in and observe. Wouldn't it be crazy? And now here I am. Yeah.
And people forget that like my mother couldn't open a bank account by herself until she was like 20 something.
My, my grandmother was a
single mom of three kids and I talked to her and asked, because when I started learning more about how limited women's rights were, single women's rights were in the sixties and seventies, beyond even what we can imagine, she said, oh yeah, and you're ostracized. Like you are ostracized as a single mom.
No one, whatever. Yeah. It's. It's absurd and insane that we don't teach that in school. Like I didn't learn that in US History. I learned it from social media probably at some point.
When the fact that we forget so quickly, like the idea that, women's rights in particular have, are just like a thing that exists.
The Equal Rights Act has not been passed yet. It's not solidified anywhere. To your point, it goes back to all the decisions it's I don't think we realize how like vague, some of these things that we think are just how I'm like, no, that's a cultural thing. That's not a legal thing because they're so different.
Absolutely. So of course as an easy segue into what does it mean to you to be a powerful lady?
To be a powerful lady is to protect yourself and protect others with vigor. With confidence, with unapologetic determination and with respect where it's due and with awareness when it's not.
Who are the women in your lives that have really allowed you to get to where you are today?
My mom and my sister, absolutely, they have built me into who I am. I am simply a sample of their personalities, of their senses of humor. My mom raised three kids. She very much broke the mold in her family for, how her kids are gonna be raised and what they're gonna do. And my.
Parents, both of my parents, my mom and dad, truly had no idea what they were dealing with. I came out of my mom like a bat outta hell and gave them a run for their money, and they ultimately let me fly around and let me do what I needed to do to be. To be present and to fill space and to be loud and opinionated and to make mistakes, and to figure out who I am and who I want to be and who I'm growing to be every day until I die.
And yeah, I'm so thankful for them.
We ask everyone on the podcast where you put yourself on the Powerful Lady scale. If zero is an average everyday human and 10 is the most powerful lady you can imagine. Where would you put yourself today and on an average day
12. On an average day 12. Yeah. Because, and the reason why I say that is because everything I do I learned this from my good friend Delara on, who's also a lawyer and creator on TikTok. She. Told me that everything she does and everything we should think to do, we should judge through the eyes of our 80-year-old self and our 8-year-old self. And if my 8-year-old self met me today, she would lose her mind and rate me a 12, rate me a 12 every day. Even though, okay, maybe a lot is happening for me to maybe not necessarily rate myself that.
Absolutely. If my 8-year-old self's gonna rate me, that I'm gonna rate me that my 80-year-old self Yeah. Is gonna be in a crop top on, on the next new app when the world heats up and it's 110 degrees everywhere because of climate change going, oh my God, look how cute I was like, look at how cty I was on this app.
I, yeah. She would rate me a 12 too I gotta give myself what they'd give me.
I know for myself that whenever I can feel that 8-year-old me is proud, like it's a good day and absolutely there's every
day. Every day is a good day Then because genuinely sometimes surviving a day, getting through a day, even if it was the worst day of your life, getting through, going to bed, waking up the next proud.
Yeah. And I think also there's, I talk to a lot of clients about that space. It actually allows us to find what people should do for their business or how to get back to what's more in alignment with them. 'cause there's that beautiful space of having your imagination and still believing anything is truly possible.
'cause it is. And also being like one foot in the adult world where you know how things sh work. Like you can make your own breakfast at that point. Like you might be able to least. When I was a kid, you could ride your bike and there weren't cell phones. You could go dark for a day. It's like an interesting balance and I think there's so many times as adults that.
We just carry shit that we don't need to. That's so not serving us and taking away that spirit. And I think that's also what I find really admiral about you is that like your spirit is so forward facing and it's powerful, but not in a scary or aggressive way. It's just as you said, like you're taking up the space that you were given.
And I wish more people were doing that because imagine if everyone was taking up their space and doing their thing and being self-expressed in that way. There's so many societal problems that are tied to just the lack of that, I think. So thank you for doing that and reminding us how much room there is for us to still take up in the world.
Thank you. I appreciate it. And I, I did not. Be it. I was not this, I was not this. Yeah. From the time I was a kid, I was always, my personality was always the same, but I have been violently embarrassed. I was bullied as a kid, as we all were. We were, I was unsure. I was not as. Forward facing, like you said, which I really love that term.
I, I strive to and always wanna grow into being as forward facing as I possibly can. And so I'm happy that's what has come across. 'cause truly, I used to be backward facing and it took many years of pain and struggle. Finding myself and messing up and surrounding myself with people who didn't serve me, and then, scratch that off the board and move and keep moving on.
It took so many years for me to slowly turn around and look at what could be if I simply just let myself be vulnerable, and let myself be unap unapologetically myself because ultimately. Whatever you are, whoever you are, whatever your spirit truly, genuinely is without filter is going to attract those who recognize it, those who see it, yes, those who love it, those who mesh with it really well, but you're never going to attract them if you don't show what that spirit is.
It's never going to work out. It's never going to be what it's meant to be unless you start just letting yourself be as you are, but also. In, fill every single corner of the space that you're in.
It, there's so many access points to just living a fuller life that way. Why are we trying to be anyone we're not that sense of scarcity, that if we are who we really are, we're gonna scare people away or we're gonna hurt people.
It's just, it's like one of the worst stories we tell ourselves and that society has allowed us to think is possible. There's. There was a quote that I saw recently. I'm totally gonna butcher it, but it was talking about how when somebody asks us to define our personality, it's usually words that other people have told us about ourselves.
They're never words that we've chosen or would've self-identified with otherwise. And one of those words is for me as like responsible. I have all my shit together. I'm a full fledge adult. I have businesses like I am responsible, but being responsible doesn't mean that I have to hold responsibility for everyone else.
And that's one of the things that I have learned as an adult. And I still need to keep checking myself with clients. Hold on, am I taking their business and holding all of that for them, like how do I empower them? And yeah, I think just anyone doing that self-discovery of what are those words that you don't wanna be described as anymore, and how do we let 'em go?
You never wanna be described as the benefit that someone receives from you. You never wanna be described. As the task you've completed for someone. Yeah. Yes. You might have completed those things out of love or because you're a fantastic business woman or because you know they're your client and you're doing a good job, you.
It could be for so many reasons but the core of those things that we do, the reason why you're responsible, the reason why I'm responsible, the reason why I, am able to manage my clients and make sure they're listened to isn't because of the task or that trait. It's because at my core I'm empathetic.
I. Have love and care for someone else. Yeah. Every time anyone ever described me as responsible with respect to like outward facing things, I'm like, word. And then if you turn the corner and look inside my room, you'd say, when was the last time you did laundry? Is your driver's license three years expired?
Ignore it. Like just, I just didn't have time to go to. And I, so I think recognizing. Who you are and how you would describe yourself if you met yourself, how you would describe yourself. If your 8-year-old self again, 80-year-old self would describe you most of the time, if not every single time, it's going to be words that really are truly who you are.
Yeah. As you are jumping between being a content creator and being an attorney, both of which require way more time than I think anyone has human capacity for. How are you giving back to yourself? What does self care look like? How are you being social and appreciating life as it's going by?
I appreciate you asking that because most of the time the question is, i, a, is that people ask me is how do you do it?
And it's always, I don't fucking know. Like I lied, riddle me that, my sister recently moved in with me. She just graduated from college, is going to grad school to be a child speech pathologist. She is a rock star and she has witnessed firsthand like what goes into. All of this. Yeah. And an attorney is everything behind the scenes and running of the scenes.
And she just, wide eyes is so what time did you go to bed last night? I'm like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Just turn your fan on. Okay. It's, it was quiet self care for me. Is reading books. That's so obscene and offensive to every attorney on this chat right now, because all we do all day is read and write and read and write.
But for me, everyone who dives into reality tv, right? Love Island Bachelor, love is blind. It's an escape, not because. An Emmy winning show, not because you think it's the best piece of entertainment you've ever watched, it's because it's easy, it's easily digestible on your brain and it's just nice and fun and comforting.
And for me, growing up as a kid, books were always that books. That very much. If you looked at my Kindle, I'd have to shoot you like it is everywhere from, like high adult fantasy books, romance books of course, but also, but Ric McCarthy, like very deep, very very beautiful. The Nightingale, Kristin Hannah, stunning.
Sobbing in my bed at 3:00 AM I read fan fiction. I'm on a O three, I'm on, literally book talk, every type of literature that is, fun and enjoyable. That's what self-care looks like to me, honest to God. And just being outside, being in the water, being on the beach being anywhere that isn't in front of a screen.
Yeah. I think it's, I also sort my day from like screen to not screen, and a good day usually has the least amount of screen time possible. As a lawyer, I
can't relate because everything is on my screen, but love that for you. No, I truly, I just want, I just honestly. I know someone, I know more than one person, but one person for sure who's it's verifiable.
She had 2020 vision going into law school. She went into law school at 27, 28. Okay. Her eyes were grown. Her eyes were good. Her eyes were solid. Yeah. By the end of her second year, glasses. Fun, fun. So that's in my future. Yeah. Even though I'm already blind, I'm already blind. I was already blind.
Anyway, I wear contacts every day in my life. So I was like, oh, I'm good. Then. Ha,
I win. As if that's a win. Yeah, no and I say the screen time thing coming from someone who is on my computer all day who is on zooms all the time, who will forget to put my blue light blocker glasses on because I'm on a zoom and then you can't see me.
You just see blue squares. So it's, every moment that I'm not here is so precious. And someone laughed me the other day you just printed out that entire contract to read. And I'm like, yeah, because I don't wanna screen and I have used recycled paper and I will recycle this paper. But me and my highlighter are gonna go sit on the couch.
And that's why so many older attorneys, older judges are still on the, I require hard copy. Train. Train. Yeah. And honestly. So fair. You have moments. There are so many moments, right? Where sometimes the boomers have a point one, like with that for sure. If it's an a hundred and th I just turned, before I popped on this interview, I was looking at 135 page document objections to evidence that I was drafting up.
And of course, when like I gave it to my boss, he's yeah, can you just, I can't I just print it, and I'll flip through and fair enough. I support that even though Yes. Recycle your paper, all of that. Everything but. Look, we gotta do what we gotta do.
We do. And we need to give ourselves so much grace, right?
We're, everyone's trying, everyone's doing what they can we can all do more, but at what cost? And so the elusive balance I hate the phrase work-life balance. It assumes that work isn't part of life. And it's no, what is, what does flow look like? What does feeling complete for the day look like?
And it's hard. Especially if you like what you do. 'Cause I would get sucked in and be like, oh my gosh. Like I cannot believe I worked that late like I wasn't supposed to. But no one told me to stop today, but I we're trying to fix that tomorrow. I
think that's that. I think that's a problem with a lot of our culture and society is that just like you said, work is so separated as like a black hole against life, when in reality you spend.
Probably at minimum 70% of your entire life at work. And I know that might sound to some people as horrifying, right? Especially, so many people don't like their jobs, don't enjoy what they do, et cetera, et cetera. But truly to get through this life, to get through it, to make it through the day, you can't.
Always just look for the time when you're not working and you're in life. Yeah, because you're in life every second of your day, and even though I probably five years from now won't remember what I did on August 9th, 2023 at 2:00 PM I can, at least right now, in this present moment today, know that even though the 135 page objections that I'm drafting.
Not fun. I'm not having a good, jolly good time about it. I can at least have comradery with the people I'm working with. Have a good laugh, make sure that people feel good, who I'm working with, my paralegals, my secretary, anyone from the janitor to the to, to the receptionist, anyone that I encounter in my day.
If I can just make their life a little better or crack a laugh with them or go on TikTok and DM someone back and have a jolly good time. Throw someone a nice comment. That to me is part of life. And if that is part of my work too, then fantastic. They're all, they're one and the same.
Yeah. For everybody who would love to connect with you, support you, collaborate, hang out, where are all the places they can find you and support you.
Absolutely. At Rev Maisel, R-E-B-M-A-S-E-L, on TikTok on Instagram. And then my podcast is the Rebuttal podcast. It is on every streaming platform and on YouTube.
I am posting an episode tomorrow. I don't know when this episode right now, currently that we're recording is gonna be live, but it's gonna be live and it's a good one. So check it out. Say hi. I would love that.
Okay. Amazing. And then we've also been asking everyone for our final question today. What do you need?
What is on your to-do list? Your manifest list? This is a powerful, connected community, and I really believe that we never know who has that next key that we're looking for. So what do you need? What do you want?
What do I need From the community or in general? In
general, yeah.
I simply need. The people who are part of this community, truly, whatever.
Good feelings they're feeling or whatever happy they're feeling. I want them to express it to the women around them, to the women online to me if you want. But truly, this sounds like such a bleeding heart, selfless like kitchy thing, but genuinely, honestly, what I want and what I need is for every single.
Woman that I see that comes across my feed that I encounter in the grocery store, that I encounter in my job, in the legal field, in my life, to not see me. As being unapologetically myself in my space as something novel. I really just need to be one of a million and I know there are so many of you out there.
Pass it on, pass that energy on. That's what I need.
Love that. Thank you so much for your time today and sharing your wisdom and your perspective with us. We really appreciate it. I'm really excited to hear what everyone say about this episode, so thank you.
Thank you for having us.
All the links to connect with Rev, Maysville and the rebuttal podcast are in our show notes@thepowerfulladies.com. Please subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening, and leave us a rating and review. Come join us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, and if you're looking to connect directly with me, visit kara duffy.com or Kara Duffy on Instagram.
I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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