Episode 279: Re-Release of Reb Masel on Legal Myths, Power, and TikTok Courtrooms
In this re-released episode, Reb Masel is a civil litigation attorney and viral TikTok creator who’s built a following by demystifying the legal system with humor and honesty. In this episode, Kara and Reb talk about what the courtroom is really like, how social media has changed public understanding of the law, and what it takes to build trust and authority as a woman in law. They also discuss confidence, burnout, and why owning your voice matters, whether you’re in court or not.
“A country that grants their citizens constitutional rights, that they then decline and refuse to teach their citizens about, has not granted any rights at all. ”
-
-
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
(00:00:01) – Why Most People Don’t Actually Know Their Legal Rights
(00:02:33) – What Civil Defense Lawyers Actually Do
(00:10:15) – How TikTok Is Fixing Legal Misinformation
(00:16:45) – The Case for Teaching Legal Rights in High School
(00:26:20) – What Politicians and Police Get Wrong About the Law
(00:33:15) – Reb’s Journey From Playing Small to Owning Her Space
(00:38:10) – Self-Care, Burnout, and Creating a Sustainable Career in Law
A country that grants their citizens constitutional rights or legal rights that they then decline and refuse to teach their citizens about has not granted any rights or protections. At all.
That's Reb Masel. I'm Cara Duffy and this is the Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Well, I would love to just jump in and tell everyone your name, where you are in the world and what you're up to.
My name is Reb Masel. I am in California in the United States of America. I am a practicing attorney. I am a creator on Tik Tok. I am the host of a podcast called Rebuttal. I am a sister. I am a multitasker. I am 50 million places at once.
Yeah, we were just talking about how it has felt like a month every day in the past week. 100%. Had a client I talked to yesterday and I hadn't talked to them since maybe Thursday. And I was like, where have you been? Like, were you on vacation? What's happening? They're like, it was just a regular week. I'm like, Oh, it was just a week. It did not feel like a week in my world.
No, absolutely not. I feel like I live several different lives every Tuesday.
Yeah. Well, let's just start with the being an attorney part. How did you decide to become an attorney? Is that what eight year old you imagined? And How is it different than what you expected?
I did not decide to become an attorney until about six months before my first day of law school. And even then I was like, well, this is a fun, right? Try and error. We'll see how this works out. My plan as an eight year old was to be a veterinarian, of course, right? Loved animals, thought that was what I was going to do.
And then to my shock and horror and surprise, you need to know science to do that. It's not really so much an empathy, right? Yeah, driven field like it is, but the science and math probably you should, you should tackle first. That was devastating. I always loved to read. I was always really good at school.
I loved school. I still love school. And I was good at it as a kid. I was good at it. So I thought, I don't know what I want to do. Veterinarians out. I am just going to go to school for as long as I can. I'll go to grad school after college. I'll get my master's in history. I'll write a book. I'll read some books.
I'll marry rich, you know, like all of the options that could possibly be available to me other than just. That's a job I hated. And my senior year of college, my roommate who is now my best friend, Talia, she's an attorney now too. She brought home some LSAT study books and I said, what's that? She's like, Oh, you should, yeah, you should take the LSAT.
Aren't you good at reading and writing? And I said, I mean, not to toot my own horn, but yeah, so that was, yeah, the rest is history. And, and, and to your question about how it compares to what I was expecting, this, honestly, I think. Is what I was expecting when you're someone who had no expectations at all going into it.
My parents aren't attorneys. No one in my family are attorneys. I didn't have friends who were attorneys. No, I was the first of my, of my, I was the pioneer of all, of everyone I knew which, which as it just someone, my own personality, I thrive in that environment. I love launching myself into new things.
So every day is a new experience. Every day is a new fun. Lesson and classroom. Every courtroom is a classroom, ultimately.
And are you prosecution, defense? What type of attorney are you?
Primarily defense in civil, civil defense litigation, right now.
And for people who have no idea what that means, what does that mean?
So that is the general answer that I give people when I don't want to get into it for 20 minutes, right? Every lawyer, if you're an attorney listening, you're probably thinking civil defense litigation, that could be anything, right? It's like saying, oh, what fruit do you like? I like fruit. Okay, we'll be specific.
Civil defense litigation is, is where, right, anyone filing a lawsuit, In civil court the people who are on the other side of it, the defendants Sometimes may or may not be represented by me However, I do also do some plaintiff's work Sometimes my clients decide that they want to file some stuff file some suits Sometimes i'm a co defendant, right?
I'm representing a co defendant in a very large lawsuit. I do everything from I mean, wrongful death litigation to products liability, helicopter crashes, right? Helicopter's going down in the middle of nowhere. No, it wasn't Kobe Bryant. You know, and, and, and defending one of the manufacturers involved in, in building that helicopter in one bolt from the helicopter or employment, employment litigation, breach of contract, mergers.
I do. IP trademark patent litigation as well. I am very much. I wouldn't necessarily say a jock of all trades more just like a gal of all,
against my will or otherwise.
Well, but I think it's really interesting is that most attorneys I know are so specific and they're in such a unique place and you're so broad what you're covering.
That to me sounds way more fun. Then having to like just do patents or just do, you know, fill in the blank employment law, now that those areas aren't interesting as well. But part of what I love about what I do is getting to go across different people on projects and things and learn along the way, because.
There's always commonalities between different things in a, in a space, but the different nuances and the people and the story behind it, that's what gets interesting, interesting for me. Do you feel the same way?
Yeah. Beyond, I mean, my, my head is aggressively nodding. I, you are my person. You are my people.
That is also one of the reasons why I decided to Go gung ho with law school. It wasn't just the fact that I loved school and, and, you know my LSAT score ended up being great. I ended up getting a scholarship, you know, like it, like it financially, it worked out for me and, and logistically it did, but also everything I had in mind for myself and my future in five years and 10 years and 20 years.
Always had an element of change. It always allowed me to change if I didn't like something that is, is, is since I was out of the womb, as my mom would say, that is everything that is true. And court of my being is I love, I love trying new things. I love trying a lot of different things. I love dabbling in things but I don't want to be stuck and I don't want to get bored.
The moment I get bored with something. I'm either zero or 100 percent and it goes to zero very quickly and being an attorney, what obviously Anyone doesn't realize who isn't actually an attorney and doesn't go through law school the same way I wouldn't realize how many different types of doctors and and and you know medical care professionals There are without going to medical school.
I could name probably a few probably a lot but not all of them Same with being an attorney you go into law school and look around and realize that you could be 500 different attorneys. Yeah, depending on what path you choose and at any point You could say, hate this, flip a 180, and, and circle it back, and figure it out, and go back to square one and that was what I wanted to do from day one, and that hasn't changed, even when my bosses ask me, my colleagues ask me, you know, oh, you know, what's your niche, like, what are you, what are you leaning towards, I'm like, life, just anything, I'm like, anything, right, anything at all, because, You know, the most valuable thing that I ever learned in my life from zero to now and the most valuable thing that I learned through law school and through being an attorney is never finding out what I love.
It's always finding out what I don't enjoy or what I hate first because then it narrows it down and it's always going to push you toward the path that you love. I've found out areas of law that I. D spies, but thankfully know about now and know how to do now. And it's such a great skill to have and in a meeting when everyone goes I don't know anything about bankruptcy and I have to go.
Unfortunately, I can give you some pointers. Yeah.
You know, I think what's also really interesting about your approach is that you're bringing humor into law and sharing it with people. I have lawyer friends who will tell me like the stories in the side that are completely ridiculous. But I love that you are bringing it to the public because I think there's an illusion that court of law and attorneys on both sides and judges and everyone who's in the room, it's like very serious and professional.
This is serious business. I just recently saw one of your Tik Toks that said you're talking about a court, a case in Orange County, which is where I live and The, the public defender, I think, said, like, how can you expect me to know what I'm supposed to be doing? This is my second case. And I was like, what does he, who, what?
I think the, yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. The exact quote was the fact that you think I have any idea what I'm doing is honestly offensive. Like, literally legitimately, I'm offended. Watch yourself, keep it cute because I am flying by the seat of my pants and, and being an attorney is that.
Most of the time, I, yeah, I, I, I, the, the humor brought to the law, me bringing the humor to the law is, I think, a fallacy. I did nothing. All I did was open a window to the shenanigans already happening inside. Everyone on my side of the fence and in my field knows that this is how it's been since the dawn of time.
I have a, I saved a transcript the other day from like, you know, Something thousand B. C. like like A. C. B. C. What right like Egyptian level like time and it was like basically a court reporter transcribing in Arabic. And the translation was something along the lines of too much. A lot of things were said but nothing important enough to write down like nothing at all.
What's that? I mean, this has been happening things. The law and case law and disputes and mediations and being an attorney and being a defendant and being a juror and being a judge is so unserious, even though it's one of the most serious and and, you know Areas of of job and practice and in our system and our society that is so esteemed as it as it should be Right, the integrity of it is very important and we should all be striving to Build it back up to something better always.
But How can we even survive as attorneys if we didn't have a good giggle, if we didn't have a good laugh? Yeah, and who do you think is are in those courtrooms? The majority of the people in courtrooms are not attorneys, not judges, they're witnesses, they're regular people, they're jurors, they're defendants, and they're hilarious.
They're so great.
I am one of those weird people who like jury duty, but I think it's because I secretly, I'm always like, maybe I should go to law school. That sounds fun. Like I'm the sicko like you, who's like, I love school. I love learning what we have to read a lot. You want me to write things? No problem.
And be working in business and being a business coach. I see so many areas where. I have a lawyer that I love and refer to a lot of people in the corporate space, but there's, it blows my mind what a gap there is in basic understanding of contracts of what agreements need to be. I'm so thankful for all the business law classes I did take in school because I just, And I think part of like what's the nonsense in society is like stretching gap of people knowing what the law actually is versus what everyone says it is.
How do you balance translating that for your clients every day? And do you lose your mind seeing what people say in the media? Cause you're like, that's not even what the law actually is.
Well, yes, of course. Right. Losing my mind is gonna be a given. I mean, the fact that so many massive news organizations don't have maybe a five minute Yeah.
Yeah. Moment to to to make a phone call to an attorney to a consultant to any type of anyone They know it doesn't even have to be someone you have to pay like y'all don't have friends Where you could call up and go? Hey, could you read this court opinion and make sure that my article makes sense? I'm, like, oh my god.
Yeah, no problem It's shocking to me that they never they I mean truly they never do it. They never do that they get So many things inaccurate blatantly wrong or they construe things that that just don't make sense Or or you read this article and you think wow, this law sounds horrible And then you read the actual law attached at the bottom and go.
Oh, that's not it at all Happens all the time and happens in every field. I think right any article you see written about even you know, stem computer code crypto, I mean It's a plan to respond to crypto. I look, they're funny you know, medical field, right? Anything like that, everyone, everyone has to grit their teeth and bear it right.
Everyone who's actually in the field, but, but I do think that the reason. Why I became an attorney and the reason why I love it both hand in hand is because being an attorney is not so much being the smart one in the room, being the one who knows everything and anything all the time. And just, Oh, let me take it from here.
Being an attorney to its core is using. What you know your best skills my best skills were school, right? I every day of being an attorney is school. I learn I consume I memorize I I regurgitate And I argue information that I have studied that has been drilled into my brain And I use what I'm good at to turn to my client, to turn to someone who's not paid to know this, to turn to someone who shouldn't know this, to turn to someone who has no reason to even have access to some of this information, right?
I, I spent Way too much money, way too much time in school to have everything be Google able, let me tell you. And I am able to turn to that person and explain it to them in a way that makes sense, and in a way that will calm their fears, or in a way that will at least make sure they know what the hell is going on.
And the best attorneys, in my mind, in my honest opinion, Are not those who know everything. They're the ones who are able to explain extremely high level complex legal concepts to a five year old and have them under understand it. And so I think that at its core, being an attorney is important. Is way too exclusive.
I think that we should have a mandatory K through 12 class, several classes. But the, if we want to pick one criminal procedure on your rights, your basic constitutional rights, when you're speaking to police, when you're talking to law enforcement, how do you file a lawsuit? Right? What are the basic steps?
What laws in your state are just generic would impact you? I, any, any high school student, 14 through 18 could have very easily sat in. On on any of my law school classes and understood the information. Absolutely. And you can consolidate. I mean, I'll teach a damn class. I it fires me up because the lack of knowledge and awareness of the legal system laws, constitutional rights is not the person.
It's never the person's fault. I never fault anyone for not understanding thing. You know, but even basic principles of contract of law anything because we're in our education or society We prioritize that knowledge. We don't because right? It's not for you when in reality so many of these problems and issues are so Self help you could totally help yourself If you would have been given the tools to know it and to succeed in or to at least, you know Find your resources to be able to know more and so I think that You From there in law school from starting from there Learning all of the things I didn't know zero to 22 years old Pissed me off and I think it kind of translated over to tiktok and you know I I absolutely can't and will not give legal advice over tiktok.
I do have a bar license. I would like to keep I do Have ethical obligations. I can't just do that willy nilly But I you know when i'm when i'm talking about cases or on my podcast, when i'm talking about legal concepts You Even though it might not be for everyone my delivery, right? My I I say the f word a lot I cuss a lot.
I use analogies that make no that make no sense to some people I use humor in every aspect of everything I do not because I I want to be cute and kitschy it's because People absorb that and they understand it and it's something that they can relate to and something that to them Makes the light bulb go off and they go, Oh, this actually is super easy.
And I totally understand that. Thank you. And then they take it on to someone else. If that's all I did in my life, I would be fulfilled.
It's why, when I saw you on Tik TOK, I sent it to my team and said, she has to be on the podcast because why aren't more people one mad that people don't know basic things that are how we're supposed to be using the laws to our advantage and protection that.
We just don't know. And the approach to it, like, I'm glad you're mad about it. Like, I want more people to be mad that people don't know their basic fundamental rights. And it's of course skewed based on economics, based on race, because in the typical family that can protect themselves in quotes. They might've had a lawyer in the family.
Their parents may have been a lawyer or they would have had exposure to some of those rights at a different way. And it's so, I don't think people realize how skewed things can be just because you don't have the information and you don't have the access. And every, every day, the two areas that people freak out about in, in my circle anyway, are about taxes and about the law of their businesses.
And they will have full meltdowns about like, is the, am I going to go to tax jail? And I'm like, You didn't do anything except file late. They don't put you in jail for that. There might be a fine, but you're gonna be okay Like there's so much we don't know what we don't know that everyone just melts down and then takes no action instead?
What my honest opinion soundbite on that is simply a country that grants their citizens constitutional rights or legal rights That they then decline and refuse to teach their citizens about has not granted any rights or protections. How are you supposed to exercise the rights you are allegedly given if you are given no easily accessible or forced information, right?
We all had to sit through math as a kid. Yeah, you might not be good at times tables, but you remember a time. Okay, it was in front of your face. You had no choice. You had no choice. Why we don't prioritize that? I would rather a, a 14 year old young kid in our country know that they have the right to refuse consent to a search and they have a right to leave if a law enforcement officer stops them on the street so long as they ask them if they are free to leave and they say, yes, you can leave, you do not have to talk to them.
I would rather have them know that than know that there are three branches of government. If I had to pick, if you held a gun in my head and said, pick which one, I would say, yeah, the first one for sure. Like, who cares? Like, you know what I mean? Like, yes, oh, basic, basic information, history about our country.
I'm like, we could, we could filter it, and I can prioritize the things that are actually going to devastatingly impact them. And what's unfortunate, too, is, you know, like you said, People act or delay or ignore or are in denial or, or, or just don't even know where to get help. And so they wait, they wait on it or, or, you know, they ignore it or, you know, they, they get a notice, they don't really know what it means.
And, and, and because of that, that decision, which hinges upon a lack of information can impact and have a horrible impact on so much of their business of their life. And, they didn't even realize it. They would never have realized it. And it's, yeah. Don't even. Join me. So, I hope, you know, I hope, I hope that in, in what I do with what I do, it, it will somehow, some way get information in front of people's faces who need it the most.
Yeah, and I think it's leading to the gap in trusting police is leading to the gap of trusting politicians because the How it all works isn't clear. So there's such an imbalance.
They don't know how it works either But on God on oh my lord on whichever God you get to They are the last people to ask about laws and how the system works on no offense, but also full offense You I can tell you for sure that, right, I went to school four years of undergrad, three years of law school, six months to take the bar and then pass the bar and get sworn in.
Okay. So seven and a half years total just to have the ability, the right to argue about the laws in court without a weapon. The average amount of training, the average out of all of the police academies in the United States, and this is a factual statistic, the average amount of training for a basic On the field is 10 to 12 weeks average to learn not only the laws that they're supposed to enforce That I just said took me, took me, right?
Seven years. If you want to cut out undergrad, okay, three and a half years. Okay. To get down. And I had to get a license about and take a test about they have 10 to 12 weeks to do all of the weapons training that they do everything else that goes, goes on. And it's related to being a police officer that's included in that.
How can, can they have the right to enforce the laws? With a weapon in public and I can't even argue about them in court with one Right politicians are not the one who write the laws that they pass Lawyers are they they hire lobbyists. They hire lawyers to write these laws to do all these checks Okay, and politicians they have to get re elected.
They don't even they they have no idea the law Right, the laws that they're passing are all politically motivated and Most of the law in this country is all judge made, it's case law. It's not based on a statute that I could cite to that, you know, John Dick and Harry voted in in the 70s. That's like rare and, you know, few and far between.
All of the interpretations and applications and hard black letter laws about the Constitution, about statutes that maybe Congress has passed, is all lawyers, judges, lawyers and judges. We're the ones. Who figure it out? We're the ones who are on the land landscape in the front lines of our rights of our laws of what's happening So, you know obviously as an attorney I might be biased but also as a person I also know when things are right and when things are wrong And that's I think what bothers me the most is of course people aren't going to have trust in their politicians or law enforcement They're honestly from a lawyer.
They don't have a reason to. I don't have a reason to. I don't want to go into politics for that reason. I think I can do more here.
I think that doing more here is such a big declaration. I think that there are so many people taking actions every day. They're making our communities better. It's part of the why we started this podcast.
We hear about these people who get regular media news cycle time from the celebrity side to the politician side. And what are they really doing to impact people's lives at a deep and meaningful way and change things? Cause it's so much easier to change your house and then your neighborhood and then your town and like go up that way.
And I think people forget that we. The lack of interest in local elections and what's actually happening from even like development laws, housing, zoning, everything. People get all mad when they're like, how did that building show up? And it's like, you never went to a town hall meeting. Like you, can you be mad?
And then it's also like, were we even invited to your point? Right. I think it's really interesting. I'm single and I don't have kids and I have no idea what's happening in the town that I live in, unless I go out and find it. Because so much of the information usually passes through the school systems, right?
And it's so weird to be disconnected. I'm like, how can I know more about what's happening to a random influencer in France? And I don't know what's happening in my own backyard.
Right. And, and that's a product truly of our social media age. I think I think one of the drawbacks of it is that we have now gotten comfortable, comfortable that whatever news and information we want to see, we're going to see.
And that's not the reality of it, especially locally. You are seeing what's on your algorithm based on a million different data, data points. And, and The likelihood that you're gonna even know because it comes up to you against your will on your feet about a town hall meeting that's going to impact your neighborhood is slim.
It's unlikely. And, and our society, I think in every society, in every world, there's an inherent, In being a citizen and being someone who wants to be involved and make a change, the requirement that you act the requirement that you go out and find the trouble. You go out and find the problems. You go out and become the solution and people, you know, tell me all the time.
Talk to me all the time. Like I said about getting into politics, politics, politics. And for me, I think that people who aspire to be the president, for example, or a very, you know, Senate, United States, House of Reps, congressperson, that's awesome. And I'm so happy that that's your dream. But I don't think that people changing and making beautiful changes in the little lives around them is any less important.
Because in order to even create that. the society that we have, the country that we have. It's all a culmination of the of the town hall meetings of the hundreds upon thousands of town hall meetings of the people passing out flyers of the people on the street going. I really want the sidewalk fix of the people on the street just doing something kind for their neighborhood.
It doesn't have to be politically related or motivated. Even just spreading information right the way that so many creators do online But also people do in their own schools among their friend groups and their families giving them information about racial disparity in our justice system Giving them information about trans rights and abortion rights and why the Supreme Court opinions are so devastating to so many more privacy rights Outside of abortion that we can even imagine people who are even just doing that and not thinking that it's making a change.
Plant seeds that will grow for hundreds of years in my hope and my dream and it, it's my hope and my dream, but also I know that that's how it works because why I'm sitting right here in this chair right now is because a bunch of women, hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, started. Getting the wheels turning and saying, damn, wouldn't a girl with some vocal fry and a hard wing liner looks so good in this courtroom that I'm not even allowed to go in yet because women aren't even allowed to walk in and observe.
Wouldn't it be crazy? And now here I am.
Well, and then people forget that like my mother couldn't open a bank account by herself until she was like 20 something.
My grandmother was a single mom of three kids. And, and I talked to her and asked because when I started learning more about how limited women's rights were, single women's rights were in the 60s and 70s beyond even what we can imagine, she said, Oh yeah, and you're ostracized.
Like you are ostracized as a single mom, no one, you know, whatever. It's it's absurd and insane that we don't teach that in school. Like I didn't learn that. In US history. I learned it from social media, probably, at some point.
Well, when the fact that we forget so quickly, like, The idea that, you know, women's rights in particular have are just like a thing that exists.
The Equal Rights Act has not been passed yet. It's not solidified anywhere. To your point, it goes back to all the decisions. So it's, it's so, I don't think we realize how like vague some of these things that we think are just how I'm like, no, that's a cultural thing. That's not a legal thing because they're so different.
So, of course, is an easy segue into what does it mean to you to be a powerful lady.
To be a powerful lady is to protect yourself and protect others with vigor, with confidence, with unapologetic determination and with respect. Where it's due and with awareness when it's not.
Who are the women in your lives that have really allowed you to get to where you are today.
My mom and my sister, absolutely. They have built me into who I am. I am simply a sample of their personalities, of their senses of humor. My mom raised three kids. She very much broke the mold in her family for, for, you know, how her kids are going to be raised and, and, and what they're going to do.
And my parents, both of my parents, my mom and dad truly. Had no idea what they were dealing with. I came out of my mom, like a bat out of hell and gave them, gave them a run for their money. And they ultimately let me fly around and let me do what I needed to do to be, to be present and to fill space and to be loud and opinionated and to make mistakes and to figure out who I am.
And who I want to be and who I'm growing to be every day until I die. And yeah, I'm so thankful for them.
We ask everyone on the podcast where you put yourself on the powerful lady scale. If zero is an average everyday human and 10 is the most powerful lady you can imagine, where would you put yourself today? And on an average day.
12 on an average day, 12 because, and the reason why, the reason why I say that is because. Everything I do, I, I learned this from my good friend, Delara, who's also a lawyer and creator on, on TikTok. She She told me that everything she does and everything we should think to do, we should judge through the eyes of our 80 year old self and our eight year old self.
And if my eight year old self met me today, she would lose her mind and rate me a 12. Rate me a 12 every day, even though, okay, maybe a lot is happening for me to maybe not necessarily rate myself that. Absolutely. If my eight year old self is going to rate me that, I'm going to rate me that. My 80 year old self is going to be in a crop top on, on the next new app when, when the world heats up and it's 110 degrees everywhere because of climate change going, Oh my God, look how cute I was. Like, look at how country I was on this app. I, yeah, she would rate me a 12 too. So I gotta, I gotta give myself what they give me.
I know for myself that whenever I can feel that eight year old me is proud, like it's a good day.
Absolutely. Every day, every day is a good day then because genuinely, sometimes surviving a day, getting through a day, even if it was the worst day of your life, getting through, going to bed, waking up the next proud.
Yeah. Well, and I think also there's, I talked to a lot of clients about that space that actually allows us to find what people should do for their business or how to get back to what's more in alignment with them because there's that beautiful space of.
Having your imagination and still believing anything is truly possible because it is and also being like one foot in the adult world, but you know how things work like you can make your own breakfast at that point, like you might be able to at least when I was a kid, you could ride your bike and there weren't cell phones.
You could go dark for a day. It's like an interesting imbalance. And I think there's so many times as adults that yeah. We just carry shit that we don't need to. That's so not serving us and taking away that spirit. And I think that's also what I find really admirable about you is that like your spirit is so forward facing and it's powerful, but not in a scary or aggressive way, it's just like, as you said, like you're taking up the space that you were given.
And I wish more people were doing that because imagine if everyone was taking up their space and doing their thing and being self expressed in that way. I'm like, there's so many societal problems that are, that are tied to just the lack of that, I think. So thank you for doing that and reminding us how much room there is for us to still take up in the world.
Thank you. I, I appreciate it. And, and, you know, I did not beat it. I was not this. I was not this from the time I was a kid. I was always, my personality was always the same, but I have been violently embarrassed. I was bullied as a kid, as we all were. We were, I was unsure. I was not as Forward facing, like you said, which I really love that that term I strive to and always want to grow into being as forward facing as I possibly can.
And so I'm happy that that that's what has come across because truly I used to be backward facing and it took many years of pain and struggle. And finding myself and messing up and surrounding myself with people who didn't serve me and then and then, you know, scratch that off the board and move and keep moving on.
It took so many years for me to slowly turn around and look at what could be if I simply just let myself be vulnerable and let myself be unapologetically myself because ultimately, Whatever you are, whoever you are, whatever your spirit truly genuinely is without filter is going to attract those who recognize it, those who see it, those who love it, those who mesh with it really well.
But you're never going to attract them if you don't show what that spirit is. It's never going to work out. It's never going to be what it's meant to be unless you start just letting yourself be as you are, but also Fill every single corner of the space that you're in.
There's so many access points to just living a fuller life that way.
You know, why, why are we trying to be anyone? We're not that sense of scarcity that if we are who we really are, we're going to scare people away or we're going to hurt people. It's just it's like one of the worst stories we tell ourselves and that society has allowed us to think it's possible, right?
There's there was a quote that I saw recently. I'm totally gonna butcher it But it was talking about how when somebody asks us to define our personality It's usually words that other people have told us about ourselves There are never words that we've chosen or would have self identified with otherwise.
And one of those words is, for me, is like responsible. I have all my shit together. I am a full fledged adult. I have businesses. Like, I am responsible. But being responsible doesn't mean that I have to hold responsibility for everyone else. And that's one of the things that I have, like, learned as an adult.
And I still need to keep checking myself with clients, like, hold on, am I taking their business and holding all of that for them? Like, how do I empower them? And yeah, I think just, Anyone doing that self-discovery of like, what are those words that you don't wanna be described as anymore, and how do we let 'em go?
Right? You never wanna be described as the benefit that someone receives from you. You never wanna be described as the task you've completed for someone. Yeah, yes, you might have completed those things out of love, or because you're a fantastic business woman or because you know they're your client and you're doing a good job, you.
It could be for so many reasons, but, but the core of those things that we do, the reason why you're responsible, the reason why I'm responsible, the reason why I, you know, am able to manage my clients and, and make sure they're listened to isn't, isn't because of the task or that trait. It's because at my core, right, I'm empathetic or I, It has love and care for someone else.
Every time anyone ever described me as responsible with respect to right, like outward facing things I'm like, word. And then if you turn the corner and look inside my room, you'd say, when was the last time you you did laundry? Is your driver's license three years expired? Ignore it. Like just, I just didn't have time to go to write like, like, and so I think, I think recognizing who you are and how you would describe yourself if you met yourself.
How you would describe yourself if your 8 year old self, again, 80 year old self would describe you. Most of the time, if not every single time, it's going to be words that really are truly who you are.
You know, as you are, Jumping between being a content creator and being an attorney, both of which require way more time than I think anyone has human capacity for.
How are you giving back to yourself? What does self care look like? How are you being social and appreciating life as it's going by?
I appreciate you asking that because most of the time the question is, is That people ask me is how do you do it and it's always I don't fucking know like I lied Riddle me that you know, my sister recently moved in with me She just graduated from college is going to grad school to be a child speech pathologist She's a rock star and she has witnessed firsthand like what goes into All of this and an attorney is everything behind the scenes in front of the scenes and she just Wide eyes is like so what time did you go to bed last night?
I'm like, don't worry about it Don't worry about it. Just turn your fan on. Okay, it was quiet. Self care for me Is reading books. That's so obscene and offensive to every attorney on on this chat right now because all we do all day is read and write and read and write. But for me, everyone who dives into reality TV, right?
Love Island, Bachelor, Love is Blind. It's it's an escape, not because it's An Emmy winning show, not because you think it's the best piece of entertainment you've ever watched it because it's it's easy. It's easily digestible on your brain, and it's just nice and fun and comforting. And for me, growing up as a kid, books were always that books.
That very much like if you looked at my kindle i'd have to shoot you like it is everywhere from right like high adult fantasy books Romance books, of course, but also, you know But corinne mccarthy like very deep very very beautiful the nightingale chris and hannah stunning right sobbing in my bed at 3 a.
m I read fan fiction. I'm on ao3. I'm on i'm on you know literally book talk every type of Every type of literature that is, that is fun and, and enjoyable, that's what self care looks like to me, honest to God, and just being outside, being in the water, being on the beach, being, being anywhere that isn't in front of a screen.
Yeah, yeah. I think it's I also sort my day from like screen to not screen and a good day usually has the least amount of screen time possible.
As a lawyer, I can't relate because everything is on my screen, but like, love that for you. Well, no, I don't. I just want, I just, honestly, I know someone, I know more than one person, but one person for sure who's like, it's verifiable.
She had 20 20 vision going into law school. She went into law school at like 27 28. Okay, her eyes were grown. Her eyes were good. Her eyes were solid. By the end of her second year, glasses. Fun. Fun. So that's in my future. Even though I'm already blind. I'm already blind. I was already blind anyway. I wear contacts every day of my life.
So I was like, Oh, I'm good then. Like, ha, I win as if that's a win.
No, and I say the screen time thing coming from someone who is on my computer all day, who is on zooms all the time, who will forget to put my blue light blocker glasses on because I'm on a zoom and then you can't see me, you just see blue squares.
So it's every moment that I'm not here is so precious. And someone laughed me the other day, like you just printed out that entire contract to read. And I'm like, yeah, because I don't want to screen and I have used recycled paper and I will recycle this paper, but me and my highlighter are going to go sit on the couch,
right? And that's why so many older attorneys, older judges are still on the, I require hard copy train, right? And honestly So fair you have moments. There are so many moments right where sometimes the boomers have a point One, you know what? I mean like with that for sure if it's an hundred and I mean I mean, I just turned before I popped on this interview I was looking at a hundred and thirty five page a document objections to evidence that I was drafting up Right, and of course like I gave it to my boss He's like, yeah, can you just I can't like I just print it print it and I'll flip through and a fair fair enough I support that, even though yes, right, recycle your paper, all of that, everything.
But look, we got to do what we got to do.
We do. And we need to give ourselves so much grace, right? Like we're, everyone's trying, everyone's doing what they can. Can we, we can all do more, but at what cost? And so the, the elusive balance, like I hate the phrase work life balance. It assumes that work isn't part of life.
And it's like, no, what is, what does flow look like? What is feeling complete for the day look like? And it's hard. And especially if you like what you do, because I will get sucked in and be like, Oh my gosh, like I cannot believe I worked that late. Like I wasn't supposed to, but no one, no one told me to stop today.
But I think, I think that's, I think that's kind of a problem with a lot of our culture and society is that just like you said, work is so separated as like a black hole against life when in reality you spend probably at minimum 70 percent of your entire life at work. And I know that might sound to some people as horrifying, right, especially it's so many people don't like their jobs, don't enjoy what they do, et cetera, et cetera.
But, but truly. To get through this life, to get through it, to make it through the day, you can't always just look for the time when you're not working and you're in life because you're in life every second of your day. And even though I probably five years from now won't remember what I did on August 9th, 2023 at 2 p. m. I can at least right now in this present moment today know that even though the 135 page objections that I'm drafting Not fun. I'm not having a jolly good time about it. I can at least have camaraderie with the people I'm working with. Have a good laugh. Make sure that people feel good who I'm working with.
My paralegals, my secretary, anyone from the janitor to the to to the receptionist, anyone that I encounter in my day. If I can just make their life a little better or crack a laugh with them or go on TikTok and DM someone back and have a jolly good time, throw someone a nice comment. That to me is part of life.
And if that is part of my work too, then fantastic. They're all, they're one in the same.
For everybody who would love to connect with you, support you, collaborate, hang out, where are all the places they can find you and support you?
Absolutely. At Reb Masel, R E B M A S E L, on TikTok, on Instagram, and then my podcast is The Rebuttal Podcast.
It is on every streaming platform and on YouTube. I'm posting an episode tomorrow. I don't know when this episode right now, currently that we're recording, is going to be live, but it's going to be live and it's a good one. So check it out. Say hi. I would love to
Okay, amazing. And then we've also been asking everyone for our final question today.
What do you need? What is on your to do list your manifest list? This is a powerful connected community and I really believe that we never know who has that next key that we're looking for So, what do you need? What do you want?
What do I need from the community or in general in general?
Yeah. Mm hmm.
I Simply need the people who are part of this community truly Whatever good feelings they're feeling or whatever happy they're feeling.
I want them to express it to the women around them, to the women online, to me, if you want, but truly that sounds like such a bleeding heart, selfless, like kitschy thing, but genuinely, honestly, what I want and what I need is for every single. Woman that I see that comes across my feed that I encounter in the grocery store that I encounter in my job in the legal field in my life to Not see me as being unapologetically myself in my space as something novel.
I Really just need to be one of a million and I know there are so many of you out there Pass it on Pass that energy on that's what I need
Love that. Thank you so much for your time today and sharing your wisdom and your perspective with us. We really appreciate it. I'm really excited to hear what everyone's saying about this episode.
So thank you.
Thank you for having me.
All the links to connect with Red Masel and the rebuttal podcast are in our show notes at the powerful ladies. com. Please subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening and leave us a rating and review. Come join us on Instagram at powerful ladies. And if you're looking to connect directly with me, visit Kara Duffy. com or Kara underscore Duffy on Instagram. I'll be back next week with a brand new episode until then. I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
Related Episodes
Episode 207: Kelly Galligan | The Lawyer You Need for Your Business & Will Want to Be Friends With, Too.
Episode 196: Sara Seyed | From Growing Up in Iran to International Human Rights Lawyer, Actor & Modern Activist
Episode 42: Ashley Telleen & Lauren Butler | Breaking Down Barriers: Women, Law, and Criminal Justice
Instagram: @rebmasel
Twitter: @rebmasel
YouTube: @RebuttalPod
Website: @RebuttalPod
TikTok: @rebmasel
Email: rebuttalwithreb@gmail.com
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
