Episode 283: The Wild Horse Crisis, Cowboy Culture, and the Women Behind the Ride | Caroline Heer & Katherine Boucher | Women in the Wilderness Film
Caroline Heer and Katherine Boucher are two of the women behind Women in the Wilderness, a documentary about wild horse conservation and cowboy culture in the American West. In this episode, they talk with Kara about what’s really going on with wild horse overpopulation, why they made the film, and what it was like to ride across Wyoming on horseback. This conversation covers storytelling, land management, and what it means to be a woman making films about cowboy country.
“You think cowboys, you think boys club. There are so many tough women out there doing the work. It’s not about gender, but who can get the job done. If you can keep up, you’re in. ”
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Chapters:
(00:00:01) - Meeting the Women Behind Women in the Wilderness
(00:03:50) - What’s Really Going On With Wild Horses in the U.S.
(00:10:15) - Why They Decided to Make a Documentary
(00:14:00) - Cowboy Culture, Conservation, and Gender in the West
(00:23:10) - Magical Moments from the Ride Across Wyoming
(00:30:00) - How You Can Support the Film
Follow along using the Transcript
That was the first day that we like rode in and saw wild horses and the very first time that I saw them I was like, whoa, this is crazy Like seeing them from a car is one thing but like riding horses near them I was like, it was like a really special moment. I just it just made it feel really real
That's Katherine and Caroline of the film women in the wilderness I'm Kara Duffy and this is the Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Welcome to the Powerful Ladies Podcast. Thank you. Let's dive right in and tell everyone who you are, where you are in the world and what you're up to.
I can go first. I'm Caroline. I'm living in Colorado now. We have a little like a little ranch with five acres and we've got two horses and one of them is a little Mustang actually from the reservation out here. We're by a lot of Ute land. So, yeah.
Very cool.
I'm Catherine. I'm living in Southern Wyoming.
I love it. And you guys are here today to talk about women in the wilderness. Yes. Let's tell everybody what that is. What is women in the wilderness and how did it start?
I can jump in it. So it started in 2018. I was working at the same ranch that I'm working at now where Caroline and I met and Louisa, who is not on the call, but she's the third woman on this project. We, she came up with this idea to do an all female horsepacking trip to learn about one, one, just to do a horsepacking trip because why not?
But also to learn about wild horses and. Kind of how they're living on the landscape and learn more about them because there's a lot of controversy around them. So we sort of just jumped into this, this project and just didn't really know where to start and decided we wanted to film the whole thing too, to make a documentary.
So we sort of just jumped in and have been working on it ever since. So we did the ride, we did a 30 day, about 30 day ride through Wyoming in October of 2021 and recorded the whole thing. We interviewed different people along the way to talk about kind of the wild horse problem and learn from different people.
And so now our documentary is in post production. So we're getting closer and closer to having a finished product. But that's kind of a summary of, of the project.
I do think it's important to share about the wild horse challenge. Most people think that there's probably not enough wild horses, especially in the U S. So what is the reality of what's going on and why is it an issue?
Well, the reality of it is there's actually it varies, of course, so so they're the way that works managed by the Bureau of Land Management, the BLM, and they break it down into different HMAs, which is herd management areas, and, of course, it varies from HMA to HMA, but in many of them, there is actually a large overpopulation problem and this kind of comes from the fact that the horse It's very contentious whether the horse is native or not native to northern America, so I won't even touch on that, but it's, they've lost their, they've lost their natural predator, which is the mountain lion.
That's the only thing that would hunt them and so now they're just living out there unchecked and multiplying you know at this speed that the land can't came up to support them and Like natural selection is not doing anything to cut that down at all And so what the government has been charged with the task of is managing those population numbers And so the way that they do that now is They will go out there with the majority of the ways they do that is they go out there with a helicopter and they'll round up these herds.
It's how they can cover the large, large areas of land and they'll do counts and they'll push the excess number off the land into these like adoption holding facilities. And so when that started happening in 1971. The belief and the hope was that these excess horses that are deemed to be too much of a strain on the land would be adopted by horse lovers and the idea sounds really great and the reality is that there are just not enough adopters for these horses and so the current situation is we are stuck in a place where there is a surplus of horses on these lands which are also shared with cattle because they do have pre existing cattle allotments for the ranchers out there.
I hope you enjoyed this. Those are existing before the 1971 Wild Horse and Burrow Act, so those have to be honored. There's also elk, deer, you know, all the other wildlife, not to mention just the vegetation itself. And so the government has to manage, you know, how much can this land support. And so now you've got too many horses on this land, you've got a ton of horses stuck in these holding facilities, which is, you know, of course, not the goal and not what people want to see.
And then you're left with, well, what do you do from there? So that's, I don't know, hopefully that made sense, a good summary of what's going on right now.
Well, and there's so many people who love horses and don't even know this is happening. And I imagine, like, every little girl right now is like, I'll take a horse, like, just send it over.
And that's kind of where we were. We were like, Oh my gosh, like what's going on? And how are we such big horse girls? And we didn't know all of this. So it was really interesting. As Catherine said, it was like, the more we learned, we're like, Oh my gosh, we have to also share what we're learning. And so that was a big part of it is we're not coming.
With this documentary, with the goal of like, okay, we want you to leave thinking this about, we just want you to leave being educated so that you can figure out how you think. And it's really our journey of discovering all this information as being this ride with the horses that are mustangs, which is really cool.
I remember the first time I saw wild horses, I was doing a road trip through Mongolia. To see wild horses, just doing their things was incredible. And so magical. I've never had that experience in the U S cause I'm assuming they're staying away from most places that I'm frequenting. Have you experienced wild horses without looking for them in the U S?
The only time, so the first time that I experienced wild horses was actually like right before our trip when we were, we had to set up water caches because we were riding through the desert. And so when we were driving through the desert, we were seeing horses that we were probably going to encounter on the trip.
And that was the first time that I had ever seen them. I don't personally live in a place where we have wild horses, but there's, there's definitely a lot across the West. And like, if you lived in, you know, other States like Nevada or like Colorado, you can kind of just run into them. Like they're. They are overpopulated in some areas.
Then you're just driving along the highway and you know, there's a wild horse next to you.
That's on our drive from where we live in Colorado to where my family lives in California. We go through this huge reservation area and you'll just be driving along. Look out and there's horses out there. And so that's really cool now.
And that's a whole nother thing of how reservation horses are managed because they're managed on native land. So it's separate from the BLM, but it's not something that I saw before living out here regularly at Nodge. There's a horse. Oh, there's some horses. Yeah.
When did you guys first fall in love with horses?
I was. nine years old when I started riding. I just started riding at a summer camp and then just never left that barn basically.
And you're originally from Vermont. Is that correct?
Yeah. Yeah. That's correct.
What, how did you end up in Wyoming?
When I was in college, I knew that I really wanted to work on a guest ranch.
I had heard, you know, one of my classmates had worked on a ranch and I just decided that's what I needed to do. And so I found this ranch through my professor at University of Vermont. She had also worked out here and came out here for a summer and I have not left .
Love that. How about you, Caroline?
When did you first fall in love with horses?
I just was told that as soon as I could talk, I was asking my parents for a horse and they're not horse people, so they were like, where are you going to put this horse loop in an apartment in LA? And I was like, put it on the balcony. They let me start doing horse riding lessons when I was five.
And I did like a couple of different disciplines, but mostly I did this like military writing called drill team writing when I did that from 11 to 18. And then, yeah, I found my way out to Wyoming and got more involved in like cowboy stuff and yeah, just really, you don't stop once you start.
It is, yeah, there's, it's like many things that once you fall in love with something so specific, you just fall into the black hole and you're like, bye everyone, I'm not going to come out.
Yeah. We're thrilled to the bone, you know? Yeah. How, for someone who's never encountered a horse, which might sound crazy to you guys, but for someone who hasn't, how would you explain the feeling between you and the horse and what you experienced in those shared moments?
I was just thinking of that quote that that horses are the mirror to the soul, which is like kind of corny, but it's like, so true that kind of whatever you're experiencing, the horse will sort of mirror back to you and I feel like every time I get on the horse, it's like, if I'm having a bad day, all of a sudden my horse bad day too, or like, if we can't communicate well, it's probably cause I'm not communicating well. I, they're just really, really intuitive animals. And I think. You know, the fact that, you know, we love cats and dogs and they live in our house with us, but it's different to be like having a horse that's like your partner when you're riding and working together. It's just a totally different relationship, I think, than than other pets, I guess.
Yeah, and if you're tuned into that, it can be very humbling because you can be like having such a frustrating day and then your horse is like, all right, well, so I'm frustrated with you too. And you're just like, Oh my God, I call myself down.
Or if you're scared or nervous, like there was one part on our ride that we did that was genuinely one of the scariest trails I've ever been on. And at times where like the horses were slipping and they were like talking like super narrow path and like huge cliff sides, either side. And we had like one horse had a big fall.
And I was just shaken up. I was like, I have to walk because if I get on my, my horse is going to get nervous and they're not going to trust me. And so you have to be aware of how you guys are feeding off each other. So I had to calm myself down and walk, felt better, got back on. Everything was okay. But like, it's just crazy.
It's very, it's very humbling. Yeah. Very special.
A lot of people have something that they find interesting or they're passionate about. And they take actions, but their thought isn't, we should film this and make this a documentary. How did you guys make that connection or that leap? Like, were you filmmakers before?
Did you have filmmaker friends? How did it go from let's do this cool 30 day ride to let's make a documentary?
I think it honestly was a lot of it was just us being like, we feel like this is so important. We just want to share all of this with, because that's the only way we can make a difference. It doesn't matter if I know a ton about mustangs, if nobody else knows.
And so it was partly that. And then partly also, I think a big part for me was, I mean, I grew up, you know, you watch documentaries, it's always like dude doing cool stuff, which is great. And do really cool stuff, but girls are out there doing cool stuff all the time. And so for me. I'm like, Hmm, it'd be really cool to be like an inspiration for little boys and girls to see that you can go out there and do anything you want to do.
And it doesn't mean that we're special because like Lou is off, she's guiding on the river in Idaho right now. She's our, you know, our partner. She's doing that with like a bunch of women, women do that stuff all the time. But I think that is, if you don't see it, you don't know about it unless you're in it.
So that was, it was the education aspect of the Mustangs and wanting to share, you know, with the public, what's going on. And then also like. Maybe inspire some girls and boys to get out there and do stuff.
Yeah, I also think, like, sharing about the wild horse problem without sort of making it biased. Like, there's so much information about what's going on with wild horses, but it's always, like, almost everything you read is swayed one way or another. It's like, there's too many horses out there. There's other sides that say, like, That the BLM is sort of limiting how many horses can be out there. And there's actually not that, like, not an overpopulation. So I think part of it too, I feel like we all have like different reasons for doing it. And I feel like part of it was that we just wanted to like, share this information and teach people about it without, without like, like Caroline said, like, we didn't want them to walk away feeling like this is the answer.
It was more, you can make your own decision now that you have all the information or as much as information as we can provide in a two hour documentary.
Yeah. And did you guys have documentary friends or did you just go out and start finding people who you're like, they might be crazy as we are and say yes.
Yeah, it was really like that. We, I mean, so I was living in LA at the time and it just like the, the way The whole thing started was like anytime we would be like, oh my god, how are we gonna do this? How are we somebody would just kind of come into our lives and be like, oh I can help you with that Oh, I want to do that And so we had at the beginning a couple of really great guys that were our friends that were like filmmakers and they helped us make our pitch video and As the pitch video kind of gained traction.
I had a friend who was an artist who knew somebody who knew somebody. And then we found our producer and she was like, Oh yeah, I, I want to produce this because I have a daughter and blah, blah, blah. And so like she pulled in other people and like, it was just, it just like snowballed. It kind of was felt out of our hands.
And we feel very lucky to have met everybody that we did. Cause it's just been amazing to work with.
Well, and the people who are supporting your film are not like random filmmakers, like your producer has done so much incredible work. She won best music video at the Grammys in 2019. Yeah, this is America, right?
Like this is not, and that's done all the other music videos and documentary work that she's done. Like Sam French people know, and like his story is crazy. Like everyone who's a part of this, it's, it's not like some random film school student was like, I'll come along for a ride. Like, no, you got very serious, legit people to come on board.
And I love that. It was just. It just happened because for me, that's such a sign that this is what you were supposed to do.
Yeah, that's kind of exactly what it felt like. Cause we, I mean, we really didn't know. I mean, it felt like every step of the way we were like, how are we going to land this? How are we going to find horses?
How are we going to pack food? How are we going to produce it? And it just, it really did feel like, It was sort of just meant to work. And I also think we sort of just believed in it so much too. Like at no point where we're like, we can't do this anymore. We have to give up. Like at every step we were like, we'll just find a way.
And it, and it just worked. And I think some of it is a Testament to just getting really lucky. And I think it just felt like it was meant to be. And some of it was just like not giving up on the thing and just pressing forward, even when it was hard. Yeah, 100%.
When you guys are living in a place that has been a little controversial, all these states that we're talking about, and accepting outsiders, and especially accepting outsiders into cowboy culture, what have you experienced coming from, you know, the alleged liberal coasts and kind of, and kind of going into traditional cowboy territory?
Do you want to take it? You've been in Wyoming for a while.
Yeah, it's hard because I feel like I'm still not like cowboy because I work on a guest ranch. It's like, it's like pretend cowboy. Yeah, it was. I don't know. I personally really like the culture out here. Like, I think it's really similar to Vermont that Vermont can be really, really left wing.
But I also feel like there's a lot of people that are really in the middle too and are just looking for like someone who makes sense. And I feel like Wyoming is very that way too. They're not just like, I mean, you'll meet some people who are just completely staunchly right. But I feel like a lot of the culture in Wyoming is also very, like, we just want someone like who makes sense and does what's best for all of us in the community.
And I think that's, that's really like what Wyoming is and what a lot of cowboy culture is, is just like looking out for your neighbor and like stepping in when they need help because there's so few people out here. And if you're stuck in the middle of nowhere, like you need your neighbor to help you sometimes in like actual life saving circumstances.
So I think there is just like this really. Great community culture here. And it does take some, I don't know, I feel like you sort of have to prove yourself a little bit here, like that you are going to come through for your community, that you are pretty tough. Like Wyoming is in a lot of places, like a hard place to live.
You know, just environment wise, but I think if you sort of like prove yourself and like stick it out, you can get your way into the community, but. It takes time. Like it's, it doesn't just happen overnight.
Yeah, but I what it's interesting that you ask that because I think if you ask the three of us, like what some of our favorite moments were from this whole trip is genuinely the people that we met. And I think, I don't know, maybe it's just the stereotype. There is, of course, some truth to it. But like, I don't know it, I never felt, you know, you get teased maybe a little bit. I'm thinking of like some moments where we got teased as being all girls, but at the same time we did it and nobody's gonna disrespect us for that.
And most of the people we met were like the most kindhearted, genuine people. And as long as you're an honest, like especially hardworking person, you're gonna be, you don't have to bring up, you know, stuff that's super divisive. Everyone just wants to support each other and be a community. And I'm thinking of like Mary Hay, who was like, you know, she was a rancher that took us into her home, supported us.
And she was talking about her life and she's a lifelong Cotter rancher out in the red desert of Wyoming. So it's not that it's only a boys club. There's so many out there working super hard. No, a big Creek. Her name is escaping right now. Is it Rebecca or anything? I'm Susie. At Susie Dunning, the Dunning, so like Susie, like we, you know, let us like put her horses, our horses in her arena for the night because we were like having a rough night and she's out there working cattle and stuff. And there's just all these tough women out there that again, I think it's just this perception of like, Oh, Wyoming is cowboy men. And it's actually, it's a ton of cowgirls out there, a ton of women doing things.
Yeah. And I think the female culture in Wyoming is so cool because I like, You know, you're out here to work on a ranch or whatever you're doing in wyoming And it really doesn't matter if you're male or female as long as you can like get the job done So there's really not like a lot of that bias of like, oh, you're a woman you you know can't keep up with this It's really pretty much like if you can keep up then that's all we need
Doesn't matter who you are what you are if you can do the job if you can do what you need to do Which is refreshing honestly.
Yeah, two years ago at mountain film. I got to see the movie cowboys and poets have you guys heard about this film? It's an incredible documentary where every year in Elko, Nevada, they have the Cowboy Poetry Festival. And so all these cowboys from around the US and maybe even internationally come and read poetry and sing songs they wrote.
And it's this really soft experience for a lot of these like very tough cowboys and cowgirls. And it was really interesting because there's a whole section about how. When the leaders kind of in this organization was talking to other ranch owners and just saying, like, we have to start voting for climate policies because we can see it on our land.
And it was like, really interesting to see this tension between loyalty for Potentially voting more Republican. And typically the climate and environment ends up on the left side. And they were like, no, like we're living right in the middle of these two spaces. And like, we have to start looking, especially at a local level, how we can be voting to save our ranches and our lifestyle and all these animals and land that we care about.
How are you guys seeing the conjunction of. Resources and ranchers coming together in your daily life and also through this film?
Yeah, I think ranchers are I don't I don't think this is the general consensus outside of the west but in the west like Ranchers are conservationists. Like they are the number one stewards of the land.
Like they are the ones working the land They're the ones taking care of it And like if they don't they they don't have a ranch anymore like if you don't know how to run water or like flood irrigate or like You Not overgraze your pastures. You're out of business. So these people Are are the stewards of the land and they are taking care of it.
So well, but I think sometimes They get a bad rap because cattle have suddenly become you know bad for the environment but I I never I mean I love like poor grazing practices. I don't see You know ranchers like having a poor relationship with the land I actually see them having the best relationship with the land than anyone else.
I remember, I think it was maybe the old ones who brought it up, they said, if we don't take care of the land, we don't have a livelihood. And I was, I thought of it that way before, because like I said, you know, I'm from California. I hadn't been out there ranching. And I was, You know, kind of shocked. I was like, you are completely right. I never thought of that before. And I think that's something that doesn't cross people's mind.
Do you guys think that this is the first of many films that you want to make sharing about your lives and horses and all the adventures you can go on?
I feel like I get this question a lot and I'm always like, that was a lot of work. I've been thinking so long and it's still not out. I like, maybe if it came together to do another one. But, I don't know, it's a lot of work to do.
We joke, we're like, I'll talk to Lou sometimes, or Catherine, we're like, we should do this again, but like, no film crew. Just like, let us be wild. Because it was so, it was such a cool experience and I'm really hopeful that the film does the things we hope that it does. But it's, sometimes they'd be like, okay, that was cool, but actually, can you ride back and just do it one more time? And we'd be like, but we have to get to camp, we got to set up, like, we got, like, horses take care of, you know, that whole aspect of it is something that, like, we could have never prepared for because we're not film people when it came down to it.
On the days that we were like doing a lot of filming, we would get to our campsite so late, like setting up in the pitch black and totally worth it. Hope that it does what it does. If somebody's like, Hey, we'll pay you guys to go ride here and do that. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I would do it, but yeah, we don't need to do another one either.
Yeah. I feel like that's the biggest thing. It's just the money and like the amount of fundraising that it took and fundraising is like no joke. I had no idea. Like people always talk about how challenging it is, but I mean, it is like a full, full, full time job when you're fundraising. So that, that was almost one of the hardest parts of the whole thing. And I don't know if I'm up for it again, maybe.
Crazy because like I think it's like a humbling experience because you're getting all these donations from people and you're like, oh my god I don't want to let them down. This is like such a big responsibility to have all of this supporting us and our crazy.
It's like, so we had some really successful crowdfunding and funders and campaigns. And like, at the end of the day, we are still like, things are just so expensive to make on documentaries. Like who would have, I would have never thought that you have to color a film. I don't think about that. I didn't make a film before, like, you know, licensing for music and matching the sound up because they take sounds from different places and all these things that go into that you just don't, I didn't think about it.
So many steps. If you had to pick one moment when you were out on the ride that felt like magic, what would that moment be?
I think we always say the same one that day that we had free time and we got to go like gallop the horses down the road.
That was really up there. So much fun. I was also thinking of the time when we were riding with John. And this was the day that John, I can never say his last name right, but I love him so much. John Minesinski. We interviewed in the Red Desert and like genuinely one of my favorite humans. He was escorting us to our, you know, the entrance of the Red Desert.
And, As we finally dropped down into the Red Desert, it was like, Oh! It was like, it had been the longest day of like, super windy riding. We're all like, riding with our heads down, staring at like, the feet of the horses, because you can't talk, it's too loud, freezing cold, miserable, nothing around, nothing to look at.
Suddenly, you just like, drop down into these like, the honeycomb buttes of the Red Desert, and like, oh, it's just insane, the sun was like, shooting out. Sunbeam. I think there's like a clip where I'm talking about it. And yeah, there is. Like, you know, that, like, surfer guy, like, yeah, that was up there for sure.
I think that day was like really special because that was the first day that we like rode in and saw wild horses. And the very first time that I saw them, I was like, Whoa, this is crazy. Like seeing them from a car is one thing, but like riding horses near them, I was like, it was like a really special moment.
I just, it just made it feel really real. And then, and then I immediately was like, terrified. Like we have nine horses, like, how are they going to react to these wild ones? But it was such, it was such a cool moment for the first time to be, to like, see them out in the wild. Yeah.
How, how did they react to each other?
We got to see it. I think, well, there are many instances of interaction and there's some things that we can't speak about because, you know, for the film, but like most of the time. When we were riding through, our horses did such a good job, and I think we talk about this a lot, is I think by that time, our little nine group of horses had become a herd with each other and with us, and they were like, you know, they're also all gelding, so they don't have those raging hormones, but stallions would come up to see who we were, see if we had mares. We had signs coming up into our string to try and like, and we had to like chase them off. We had, you know, big like group of like 40 horses crossing behind us, you know, running back and forth. We're terrified, worried because we don't know these horses super well of our own. But I think that they had bonded with each other.
They were like, it's okay. Like we have our herd. Why would we run off? So luckily they were pretty unbothered, which is, we didn't know. And we got very lucky that they were like that.
Yeah. Yeah. I think in retrospect too, it was really smart of us to bring horses that had been previously wild. I didn't really think about that before the trip, but like they had lived out there and had, You know, lived in an environment where they had seen other wild horses running by them and, you know, had lived that already.
And so I think they were not as phased as like, if we had brought other horses out there, I think it would have been a very different scenario, but they, they were mostly unfazed by by other horses.
I have so many questions now about like what, how wild horses act and how many herds they are and do they get along or do they fight with each other? Like next, next episode, we have to bring in a biologist who just knows horses. I think
we're no experts for sure. We just saw what we saw, but It is crazy. They have crazy social dynamics. You know, horses are incredibly social creatures. And my first experience with that was working at the ranch where Catherine's at, where they have 120 horses and you're like, Oh my gosh, they're working out their hierarchy.
And even though it's like, you know, they're all domesticated, they have this strong social structure. And so same with wild horses. Very, very cool.
It's like same as if you were had a dog sanctuary, right? When there's all those, they still all have their personalities and their relationships. It makes me think about the separating the wild horses from their wild herd too get them adopted. It makes me feel like the whales in SeaWorld. Do you know anything about like the psychological impact when they're removed from the herd or are they removed in a group where they're just not by themselves?
So I think this is a big concern that people have and they get really worried and rightly so, because we have a tendency to project our feelings onto animals.
Something we talked about a lot too is like, oh man, like, are we really cruel for making our horses? You know making our horses be out here with packs on them and saddles and riddles and all that Like haha you losers But it's like of course they bond really strongly to their herd, but it's the same have a puppy You know, you take that puppy from its mother at some point and the puppy's okay they re bond with it And so it's the same with the horses, of course, there's a bond there that's going to be broken unless you take the whole herd off, which they do. It'll take the groups off together, but then they separate them, the stallions go separately, the mares go separately, and if the mare has a foal, they keep the mare with like the nursing foal, but if the foal is weaned, they separate those.
And so it might sound cruel until you think about, okay, well, you know, if my dog has puppies, I can't keep eight puppies, I have to separate them. As much as they would love to. And they're okay. You know, they make bongs, and they are alright. All the mustangs that we had, had come off of the land. And they were Fine. And even they, they came from their own herds. We rented some horses and they came from herds and they were fine. So I think people don't give them enough credit. Maybe. Yeah.
Yeah. I think horses are like incredibly adaptable animals too. Like if you think of all the things that we asked them to do, like going on, you know, from like trail rides to like, you know, pulling farm equipment to, you know, jumping over jumps in the Olympics, like there's so many different things that they can do and handle. And like, I mean, even just the horses that we leased on a regular basis are being leased out to different people every, like every summer or every like few weeks. And they, they're just really adaptable animals too.
Well, it makes me think of, you know border collies or herding dogs and like, they want work. They want to be participating and doing things. They're smart enough where they, they want the stimulation and like, give me something to do. Cause.
When we talked, when we, when we interviewed the Oldham's and that was a family that we spoke to in Lander, Wyoming, and they're a native family that are cattle ranchers, but they also run a wild horse sanctuary where what happens is if there are horses that get returned to the BLM. Number of times, or, you know, they're just too unmanageable. They're deemed unadoptable and those horses then have a choice to either be in the holding pen for the rest of their life, or they have government sponsored holding facilities called like sanctuaries. So it's essentially just a big pasture where they can run around.
And on the surface, you're like, Oh, that's great. They get to go run around, but then you're like, okay, well, we saw these horses as part of our interview and it's beautiful to watch them running circles in this pasture. And then you realize they're just running circles and use this big pasture for the rest of their life. And is that, is that a life? Because they do love to have a job and they do want to have like genuinely a purpose and I don't know, you know, you're saving them from one fate, but. At the end of the day, I don't know, it's a, it's a really tough, very tough thing.
Yeah. Yep. It's hard. When we kind of look at what's next for this film, what do you guys need to finish it, bring it to life, like what are the next steps and how can people help?
We're getting really close on the editing process. So we've finished what's called the rough cut. So basically we've like picked out all of the, the scenes that will be in the movie. And right now it's getting, it's currently getting colorized. And then the next step will be adding in like graphics and titles and then music. So our producer, Danielle is, is trying to finagle some music for us and make that work. It's just music can be one of the more expensive things. So that's just. A little challenging right now, but it, it sounds like it is progressing really well and. We're getting closer and closer people, people can always help by donating like any, any donations that we get, we'll just go straight to the editing process and just help you know, help us like get through the music and pay for it or even, you know, just like make a better film.
So people can always, always donate and we have a website and a link on there to, to donate.
And when that website for everyone listening?
It's women in the wilderness film. com.
Yeah. And just sharing it like at this point, you know, just getting the word out, getting people excited because the more people that know about it and want it to get out, you know, more hype that we have and what people we can reach.
I love it.
So we asked a couple of questions for everyone on the podcast. Are you guys ready for some rapid fire questions? When you hear the words powerful and ladies, what are the, how do you define them and do their definitions change when they're put next to each other?
It's so like, the first thing I was like pantsuit. Also just like, I don't know, like I, I know so many genuinely powerful ladies. So like, it's like, You know, it's a given. Ladies are powerful people, beings.
I just think of women who get shit done. I think of powerful ladies.
How have powerful women changed your life or your trajectory or helped you along the way?
Well, two of them went on this crazy trip with me and filmed a documentary. So I definitely changed, changed my trajectory. I never thought I'd be in a documentary.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, a hundred percent. And like Danielle is at the helm of the whole production stuff. And she's an incredibly powerful woman. She has started her own production company. And as you said, you know, she's really like got a lot of things to show for herself. And also you have like limb, you know, she was our head wrangler when we first worked at the ranch. And I, like, she was so inspiring. She was like, maybe five feet tall, laying down in Ryan stones every day, super bad handle it, but also could handle any, you know, person that came into the bar and that had complaints. She was like, just so, I don't know, so badass. I just, she's very inspiring.
If you put yourself in the powerful lady scale, zero being average every day human and 10 being the most powerful lady you can imagine, where would you put yourself today?
I don't know where I put myself. I mean, yes. Branch is pretty. Yeah. Like I like working with my staff every day and helping them like grow and learn and being like a leader to them. So I feel that, that makes me feel powerful and working with horses because they're giant animals. And it's crazy when, when you're just working with this gigantic prey animal and like, you know, you guys are on the same page that just, I mean, there's nothing like that.
That's a powerful feeling.
This is a powerful community, right? Of all these people who Honestly, like, there's so much crossover values. Like you guys were talking about before, like, I really believe most people are good people and they want to make an impact and make a difference and be of value. So we've been asking everyone who's been coming on, what do you need? What's on your to do list, your manifest list? How can we help? What do you want to ask this community to help you with and support you with, whether it's related to the film or totally different?
Good question too. I mean, Really at this point, I'm just like, I am very itching to get this out there. I do really want to, because I feel that this is, for me, I, that's like the culmination of the last, it's been like so long that we've been working on this and I, I just want it out so bad because it's, it's hard to be sitting on all this stuff and, and not be able to share it. And I really want it. Share it with people.
Yeah, I agree. I just want it out in the world so everyone can see it and we don't have to keep all these secrets about our trip, but it's been so hard, oh, I know. So for everyone who wants to support you, follow you, donate to you, they can find you on Instagram. And is it the same as your website? . So it's women underscore in underscore the and but you'll if you search it, you'll find us and yeah I mean, well if people want to like send us a message or like make it comment like we read all of them We all share the same account. So it's like We all respond back and it just like keeps us going.
I know we, we don't have a lot of like hands on work that the three of us are doing at the moment because it's in our producers hands, but I don't know. It's like, keep the sparkle eyes and keep the motivation going. It, it really And here when people comment or share, it's like, it's just, it's us three. It's not like some corporation where you're like, ah, too many messages, you know, big deal.
I love that.
Well, thank you guys so much for being a guest to Powerful Ladies and sharing your story today. I love documentaries. I'm, you know, I sponsor and every year go to Mountain Film Festival. And so. This type of storytelling is really my favorite. I'm excited to see it. I want to know all the secrets you can't tell us now. But just, yeah, thank you so much for what you're doing and just being an example of how badass women can be and especially when it's women and horses combined.
All the links that connects with women in the wilderness film are in our show notes at the powerful ladies. com please subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening and come join us on Instagram at powerful ladies. If you're looking to connect directly with me, visit Kara Duffy. com or Kara underscore Duffy on Instagram.
I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
Related Episodes
Episode 217: Mountainfilm with Suzan Beraza and Shae LaPlace
Episode 229: Jeanne Carver | Shaniko Wool Company & Responsible Wool Standard
Episode 163: How Changing the World Starts with Your Community with Judy Wicks
Instagram: @women_in_the_wilderness_film
YouTube: @womeninthewildernessfilm
Facebook: Women.in.the.Wilderness.Film
Website: womeninthewildernessfilm.com
Email: womeninthewilderness1@gmail.com
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
