Episode 35: Running for Justice | Rosalie Fish | Advocate for Missing & Murdered Indigenous Women
Rosalie Fish made headlines when she ran her state championship track meet with a red handprint painted across her face and “MMIW” on her leg, honoring the lives of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and raising awareness about an epidemic too often ignored. A proud member of the Muckleshoot Tribe and Calet Tribal Nation, Rosalie has become a powerful voice for Indigenous women’s rights, using her platform as a competitive runner to bring visibility to injustice. She shares her journey from being the only runner on her high school team to competing at Iowa Central, what it means to be “born into politics” as a Native American woman, and how non-Native allies can truly support Indigenous communities. From confronting invisibility and cultural appropriation to preparing for her TEDx Youth talk, Rosalie’s story is one of courage, activism, and the unshakable belief that amplifying voices can create real change.
“As a Native American we’re born into politics. My life and my existence is political. I want native voices to succeed and be heard and that’s always deemed political by other people. I’m used to having to fight.”
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Muckleshoot Tribe
Muckleshoot Tribal School
Iowa Central, in Fort Dodge Iowa
ESPN
Missing & Murder Indigenous Women
Boston Marathon Runner: Jordan Marie Daniels
Reservations
Tribal Law
Seattle
Seattle Times
Kim Schrier
Urban Indian Health Institute
Canada
Misty Upham
Climate Change
Cross Country
track
Field Hockey
National Tribal Health Conference in California
Students of Parkland
TedX Youth in Seattle October 27th
Indian Country Today
Washington
Ragnar Races
Cultural Appropriation
White Savior Complex
India
Lilly Singh - first lady of late night
Team USA Women’s World Cup -
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 Meet Rosalie Fish and her fight for MMIW awareness
05:20 The power and symbolism of the red handprint
12:26 Why Native communities need to be heard, not “saved”
18:40 Growing up as a member of the Muckleshoot Tribe
25:55 Finding her voice through running and advocacy
32:10 The intersection of identity, politics, and representation
40:35 Overcoming challenges as the only runner on her team
47:50 Cultural appropriation and the white savior complex
53:15 Preparing for her TEDx Youth talk in Seattle
59:20 How allies can amplify Native voices effectively
As a Native American, I almost felt like we're born into politics, like my life and my existence is political, that I want native people to succeed and be heard, and that was always deemed as political by other people. I'm used to having to fight a little bit for these kinds of rights and opportunities.
That's Rosalie Fish and this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something, and the extraordinary to come and share their story. I hope that you'll be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Rose Fish appeared on ESPN and news stations globally. When at her high school state championship track meet last spring, she ran with a red hand print on her face, an MMIW on her leg to bring awareness to the missing and murdered indigenous women epidemic in the US and Canada. Women in indigenous communities are silenced when there is rape, when there is abuse, and police often ignore reports when indigenous women go missing.
I'm honored to have Rosalie, a young woman of the Muckleshoot Tribe on this episode of The Powerful Ladies Podcast, to provide her a platform to share her story and the story of her tribe.
Thank you for being on The Powerful Ladies Podcast. Yeah, thank you for having me. Of course. I'm honored. Let's start by telling everyone who you are and what you're up to.
Okay, my name is Rosalie Fish. I'm an 18-year-old Muckleshoot and Cowlitz tribal member. I recently graduated from Muckleshoot Tribal School and now I'm running collegiately at Iowa Central a college in Fort Dodge.
Very cool. And I actually was sent a picture of you from my boyfriend because he knows I'm always looking for new, powerful ladies, and he saw you come up on his Instagram feed through ESPN. So do you wanna tell everyone how you ended up on ESPN?
Sure. So last spring, or spring of 2019 in the track and field, I was a senior at Muckleshoot Tribal High School, where during my track and field season, I qualified for state championships and.
Through that I dedicated the four races that I qualified for to a missing or murdered indigenous woman in my community. And I represented them at state championships.
And you did that by running with a red hand print across your face to symbolize the silence and lack of attention that they're getting.
Correct? Yes. Yeah, it made for an amazing photo. You are certainly on the marketing genius side, and I dunno if you, did you realize the impact that you would have when you did that?
Oh, absolutely not. I had actually, I was inspired by a Boston Marathon runner. Her name is Jordan Marie Daniel, and she ran at the Boston Marathon with that very same hand print and with the acronym MMIW, down her right leg.
And so I had simply contacted her and asked her permission. To use her idea and spread awareness where I was in the Pacific Northwest in Washington. And then the picture itself, actually, I didn't know it was taken until after state championships. Another native photographer was at the championships just taking pictures for the athletes.
And then when he saw me, he had a vision of what kind of picture he wanted to take. And that's the one that people have been seeing constantly.
What is it like to, be a senior, be young in the eyes of the world, and to have made such an impact?
It's definitely been very intimidating to know that there's that many people who had opinions about what I did or who maybe even were impacted by.
How I ran. But it also was very empowering to know that I was able to raise awareness for something that was really important to me. And I'm hoping that I can continue to do or even inspire other youth to use their platforms and get their voices out there and get their concerns, acknowledge.
Yeah, I loved it. I always think, I believe that everybody has a really powerful voice and it's just a matter of, how we use it. And I'm always really inspired by people who take what they're already doing in their everyday lives as an opportunity to make an impact. And you did it in such a eloquent way of, of painting your face and then writing the initials down your leg and you were making a big deal of something without causing a big deal.
Like you did it within what you were there to do anyway. You still went out and performed. You succeeded. And because of all of it combined together, there's something really beautiful when a, quiet, gentle impact, gets heard that way. Because not everyone is so lucky to, people who are raising their voices and taking a stand on things don't always make it come together that way.
To me it was really profound in, in how someone can make a difference every day in really simple gestures. Yeah. Thank you for that. And I it really, all the credit for that really goes to, the know native women who have been pressing for this issues above me who really moved me and taught me, and guided me in this.
They really were the ones who I went to through for teachings and especially Jordan. Jordan, Daniel really was my mentor and still is, through this process.
For people who don't know. The situation going on with the missing and murdered indigenous women. Can you tell us more about that?
Yeah, absolutely.
So the murdered and missing indigenous women epidemic is sometimes considered as one of the longest Me Too movements. It's been going on for centuries in native communities and really is trying to bring attention to the fact that native women are extremely vulnerable to violence. So a few things that we've found, especially through like studies done by Urban Indian Health Institute is that, murder is the third leading cause of death for native women.
And native women are two times more likely to be raped than a white woman. And it's these kinds of demographic or these statistics that put native women as a demographic, extremely vulnerable. Psychological, sexual and physical violence.
What are the causes behind that? Like what, what's unique in the communities that create such high statistics?
So we when we look at the, what's causing the epidemic and what's keeping it alive, part of it is the historical trauma that comes with it through boarding schools and things and reservations, and no lack of acknowledgement that comes from the federal government to tribal lands and tribal laws.
So there has been a lot of loopholes in which tribal affiliations aren't allowed to prosecute non-tribal offenders if a non-native person assaulted a native woman, there's been a lot of cases in which there's been loopholes where the. A non-native person can get away with that. But also there comes a lot of systematic neglect where we found a lot of police stations and police reporters either refusing to take any kind of missing persons report or not taking it seriously or not documenting it correctly.
And these are the kinds of issues that we've been addressing through. And in order to really acknowledge the epidemic, we have to acknowledge that these are some problems that are standing behind it.
Do you see a difference in support and progress being made at a, county, state or versus a federal level?
Like where do you see the most progress happening?
Yeah, I've definitely seen an amazing amount of progress in the Seattle area, considering that Seattle was the. Highest leading city in the murdered and missing indigenous women rates. And after my story, it was covered in the Seattle Times, which already was really empowering to me to know that Seattle was addressing this issue, that they were taking this issue on, that they had realized that, wow, we are the highest leading city for missing and murdered indigenous women and we're gonna cover it.
And then the next thing you know, I was getting calls from a congresswoman, Kim Schreyer had called me and told me personally that this was an issue that she wanted to take seriously. How cool. And along with, yeah, it was really inspiring to me to know that somebody did care. Who actually who could, somebody who would take my voice and the voices of my community and the women in my community and amplify them.
That was really empowering. And also, they've been recently Seattle held a. Conference to address the missing immigrant indigenous women epidemic. And they actually brought in Urban Indian Health Institute, which is a really influential and hardworking institution that has been doing a lot of work for this epidemic.
And now that they're getting these platforms and these opportunities, I think that we're really like on our way to make some changes.
When did you become aware of this being an issue in your community? And when did it's, when did you realize it was something that you wanted to be a voice for?
With the missing and murdered indigenous women epidemic? It wasn't really something that I learned about. It was just something that I realized had a name.
Like
I was with the amount of women that are. Exposed to violence, it really becomes normalized after growing up in that kind of environment.
Yep. And then I realized as I got a little bit older and a little bit more involved in the social and political aspects that surround like Native Americans and reservations, I realized that it was an epidemic that wasn't just on my reservation or even in the Pacific Northwest, but it was happening across the nation and across continents in Canada.
That was when I got a lot more passionate about the issue, when I realized that it's not just affecting my family and my community, it's affecting families and communities, almost not worldwide, but through the Northwest. And then when I saw Jordan Marie Daniel run at the Boston Marathon with the hand print, it made me realize that I could do more with my running, and I had the opportunity to do
when you say that you've been impacted yourself, are there people in your Im immediate family that have been victims to this? Yes. I'm so sorry.
Yeah, it is definitely something that requires a lot of, healing and traditional, just traditional methods in order to really be able to speak about it in a way that, you're going to make progress.
But it's been, it's almost, it's so normalized in these communities since I'm not, what's the point of reporting it? Because I know they're gonna tell me that when I report it to the police, they're going to, they're going to push it back. Like with Miss Misty Upham she was a native actress and she was raped at the golden Grammy Awards, and then she went missing and after.
She was reported, they waited 11 days to actually start looking for her. And by then she was found in a ravine, and the police mislabeled her death as a suicide despite there being evidence that it wasn't. And it's these kinds of reoccurring let downs that make people feel hopeless.
Yeah. It makes you feel like you don't have a voice or your voice doesn't matter.
When you think about growing up on a reservation and being part of a native indigenous community what do you want people that haven't experienced that life to know?
I think one thing that's really important to acknowledge is, as a non-native, is to know that. I wouldn't say that the reservation or Native Americans necessarily need saving as much as they need to be heard.
Yeah. And really one of the issues that comes along with the violence against native women is invisibility. And lack of acknowledgement. And I think if there were op, if you have an opportunity as a non-native person to pass the mic, to pass the platform or and amplify the voice of native people, I think that's the best way that you can really help native women.
I'm honored that you hear, so we can amplify your voice then. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Of course. Do you feel a level of responsibility now that you've gained some notoriety in this area to carry this torch? Or are you, is it more of a pride and honor that you've been chosen to have the spotlight?
For me. I've always felt as if though I had a responsibility to, uphold and really support, my communities and other communities like mine. I would say that as a Native American, I almost felt like we're born into politics. Like my life and my existence is political in a sense. That I want native people to succeed and be heard, and that was always deemed as political by other people. So it almost, I would say that I'm used to being, I'm used to having to fight a little bit for these kinds of rights and opportunities.
Do you feel that's how other people on your reservation feel as well, or is that unique to you?
I would say that there are a lot of native youth, especially who feel this way. I've seen a lot of native youth, not only. A stand on this epidemic, but also the climate change epidemic. And native youth were, staring through the guidance of elders, native youth are taking stands on, like protecting lands and things like that.
And so I really think that this generation and through the reconnecting with traditions, and reconnecting with family and with elders, that they're starting to find platforms in order to raise themselves and raise their communities. So I think that this generation is really starting to find their voice,
not being non-native and not having a lot of exposure to reservation communities or that lifestyle.
The only things I know are statistics that I've heard through media, which I have no idea if they're accurate because usually they're not being reported by a native person. So that automatically makes me question it. Yes. So I, you hear things like people leaving reservations and mass numbers.
You hear about the population declining as a result. You hear about there being high levels of abuse physical abuse and alcohol abuse. And you hear about there being not a lot of opportunities for people on reservations. What of those things would you say are accurate or changing?
Or what do people need to know besides giving people a voice, like what are, what's really going on in reservations today from your experience?
Right now what I know is each tribal reservation has a different environment. Some tribal reservations are able to provide resources for their communities and provide wellness centers and schools and mental health facilities, while other reservations like the Pine Ridge Reservation are left without electricity and running water.
So I'd really say that it depends on each reservation individually. But I will say that all of the reservations I've been to, no matter where, I've always found a extremely strong sense of community and family and tradition.
The same things that tie most of us together. Yes.
Yeah, I always, I, it always surprises me that as humans, we don't go back to the things that we have in common more often as a starting point. Loving family and wanting the next generation to, to do better and wanting to keep your traditions alive no matter where I've gone in the world, that's, those are all things that we have in common.
And I don't know when it became a bad thing to celebrate everybody's unique experience and to share that versus try and make everything very homogenous.
Yeah. And that's something that I really appreciate about my reservation is knowing that I can come back and I won't be, mocked for wearing my moccasins or for speaking my language or.
Anything like that. It's almost for me, my reservation personally is a safe place for me in the sense that I know I can go there and I can be myself and I can embrace, my heritage and I won't receive any kind of discrimination for that.
Do you feel that you can flow between your native heritage and like Western society and go back and forth and express all of who you are?
Like how do you, how does that feel to you and is that even a accurate example that I'm giving?
I would say that it's not very difficult in order to, ingrain native traditions in modern Western day traditions as well. I would say that just like with running painting is very traditional.
And yet track and field and the way that we run it now is not traditional yet. For me, it wasn't very difficult to combine the two.
I've seen that there are some tribes that have running as part of the like process of becoming an adult for different native groups. I've even seen a documentary where like on a girl's birthday, she goes out and does these runs. Is that something that is in is in your tribe as well and is that something that you guys do?
Or where, how does running fit into your heritage?
I will say that because my tribe is a coastal tribe. So we're on the water that my traditions more directly tie into canoes and fishing. And cedar gathering, and berry picking and things like that. But I do know other tribes, especially in the southwest area that do have very very strong ties to running through their culture and through their family.
And I've had a few opportunities to run with some of the Native Americans that have that in their families, and they're very strong runners and very, you could tell that running is almost like a healing process and a grounding process for me and for the natives that it in their families and their churches traditions as well.
And I think that's something that's common of anyone who loves running, right? No matter your backgrounds, if they talk about the runner's high. There's a place you get to where you realize it's bigger than you and you're just like going through the motions and watching your body like.
Keep running and run faster and feel like you're one with something bigger than you are. So the therapy of running and the confidence it gives you and the mental cleansing that it can, that is why most people I know run is for that yeah. The health and fitness comes second. It's really like your mind needs it before your body does.
Yeah, exactly. How did you get into running? I
started running in middle school just because I really enjoyed the way it made me feel. And then when I got to tribal school, I was a freshman in high school and it was definitely a shift because I was the only runner on my team because the school was very small.
And track and field wasn't, didn't really have a legacy at Muckleshoot Tribal School yet. And so when I would show up to meet and I noticed that I was the only tribal school there, and I sometimes would be put into the last lane, even though my time would put me in a different one. And I was treated sometimes just like less than, or I was underestimated a lot.
Or even when sometimes when we'd have home meets or home games, we would have, graffiti in the bathroom wall with racial slurs. And it was those kinds of things that really kept me running in the sense that I knew that I was representing Muckleshoot Tribal School, Muckleshoot Nation, and also even being all indigenous people in a sense that I was a native runner.
And I was one of the only ones, if not the only one there. And I was defying perceptions of me that other people had. And so that was really what kept me running and what empowered me through running. It's so fun, isn't it, when you get to prove everyone wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Even, I think anytime that I know me personally, if I'm being underestimated, I'm like, yes, this is gonna be fun.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
For those that don't know, which which races are yours in track and field, what distances do you do?
Normally I usually only run the 3,200 meters and the 1600 meters and the 800 meters. And at state championships I ran the 400 meters, but I wouldn't say that I run that regularly.
Yeah. And now you're going to college and you're gonna be running in college as well. Yes. And what made you pick where you are going and, what was the process like for you going through the college application process and picking a school?
So my coach brought Iowa Central up to me originally because at the time that I was trying to find a college, we knew that going straight to a four year university would be a really big jump for me just because I would be going away from home and also from a small school and small running program to a huge school and a huge running program.
So that's why we started looking at junior colleges and that's when we found Iowa Central and their women's team are 15 times NA National Champs in cross country. And so it was really, and then when I talked to the coach and I looked at his program. He not only had faith in my running ability when I didn't, but he also had faith in my character and my dedication.
And so after speaking with the coach and learning about the success and history of the program, it just seemed like an opportunity I couldn't pass up.
Are you running cross country as well as track and field there? Yes. It's currently cross country season. Yeah. I was a college athlete as well. I played field hockey and I got so much out of having a team like right away.
'Cause you go for preseason and you're doing all this prep and you instantly have a group of people that you can count on and hopefully become your friends. What has it been like for you to go from a school that had a small team to almost no team? If it was to a place that is 15 times national championships and you have all these other amazing runners around you.
Yeah, it is definitely been really life changing to be able to get up at 7:00 AM for my 11 mile run and know that there's going to be at least 40 other people who have to run just as long or longer and they're going to be miserable right there with me. Yeah. Really nice to know that I don't have to do it alone.
Yeah. And did you say 40 people have to run with you?
I think on our team we have a little bit less than 40 boys and about 12 or 11 girls, but we all run together, or at least at the same time we all run. Boys are a little bit, some of the boys are way ahead of us. Of course. But
I like that you corrected that some of them are Yeah.
Yeah, not all of them. Yeah. And so how long have you been at school now?
I arrived on campus July 31st.
And what has that process been like for you?
I was pretty shocked when I first got here just because there's no mountains
in
Iowa, that was I got off the plane and I started looking around because wait, where's, where's Mount Rainier?
Where did it go? Yeah. And it's definitely just in a completely different environment, but I've been able to adjust really well because of the support system Iowa Central has here for their athletes, and also my team being so easy to be around. It hasn't been much of an issue at all.
And classes as well, like figuring out that whole balance between school and athletics and, do you feel like everything's going so far?
Oh yeah, absolutely. The coaches really make an effort. They check your grade every day, I'm pretty sure. And they know when you're absent, maybe even before the teacher does, it seems like they really are on top of the students and know which students need support and they get that support for them along with, study, study tables and things like that.
It's really, for me anyways, it feels almost impossible to not do well here.
And what's your plan? Are you gonna be there for two years and then look for like how are you gonna switch to a four year school at some point? Or what's your plan for both your running career and your education?
Right now I am majoring in human services just because as of right now, that seems where. My passions are for running. I definitely plan to transfer to a four year school when I'm ready. I think that will be in two years just because I'd like to get the most out of I as I can out of this amazing program.
Yeah, for sure.
And I'm really hoping to continue running competitively and you see where I can take my running as far as running at a four year and representing, native people and native issues as well.
And I've seen that you you already do represent those issues at different conferences and speaking engagements. How have those come about and what have those experiences been like for you?
I. Yeah, different conferences I think one of the more recent ones was the National Tribal Child Support Association Conference in California.
And when they reached out to me, I was really surprised just because I didn't think anybody would really want to hear from me, or I didn't think that they would believe I was qualified to speak at a conference like that. But I was really just shocked in general. But after I realized, this is what I need to speak about I spent a lot of time preparing myself to make sure that, their faith in me wasn't, was it wrong or that I could, those expectations and those standards, and it's been really life changing to be able to travel to these conferences and meet these people who care about these issues and in a way that. I can hopefully help inspire or help heal or even just talk through some of the issues with other people who care about it.
Yeah. One of the things that makes me really helpful about the generations that are coming up is that I do get a sense that people feel like they have a voice and that there is a lot of room for young people to step up, to speak up to come together and use their voices collectively. So I'm, it makes me really happy to see people knowing that how powerful you are, even if the power feels small, because it's not, it's just a matter of, everyone's smaller voices coming together to make one larger voice.
And it, yeah, it just brings me a lot of joy to see people of all different backgrounds and fighting for different causes to. Be stepping up. Like I'm really inspired by what's happening with the climate movement and the rallies this past week. I'm really proud of the students that from Parkland, like it's just great to see young people in general realizing that, one, they're a lot more smarter than most adults are, and two, like there are people out there that want to listen to them and to support them.
And I definitely, that's where with this generation coming up, it almost feels like a lot of us don't really have a choice but to fight for these issues. And I think also with this generation, that we're finding ways to inspire each other with the things that we care about and the things that we're doing.
Yeah. Is it frustrating to you that the adults. Ahead of you haven't taken care of these problems already because they're not new.
There are some issues that have been presented before and they weren't quite acknowledged. I'll say that, with these platforms that are being created for youth to speak, it's been a lot easier for in these protections.
For example, if I had done what I, if I had ran in my race with paint over my mouth 50 years ago, they could have easily kicked me out and I wouldn't really have much of a say against it. But now in this kind of, I have these protections where I can protect myself from that type of discrimination.
Whereas I know other people who may have been advocating for these issues didn't have as much protection or didn't have as many ways to protect themselves from. That kind of discrimination and that those methods to silence them.
So when you're not running and when you're not an advocate for missing and murdered indigenous women, what are you doing?
Like what is the rest of your life look like and comprise of?
I spend a lot of my time when I'm not, when I'm not either working on things or my next presentation or making connections and things like that I'm either finishing and making sure that I have a good GPA or I do spend a lot of my, not only training, but recovering my body.
Because the type of training that we go through, you will not make it through if you don't spend it an extra hour just recovering from those workouts. Yep. And I also spend a lot of time with my team in general team bonding and. Going out for movie nights and things like that, or smoothies and really just spending time with each other.
It's surprising to me how I don't really get tired of my team that much. Yep. Just all this time that we spend together. So I'm really grateful to be able to spend time with those, these kinds of people. Along with just keeping in touch with home and, talking to, I get a little homesick every once in a while, but keeping in touch with my family and counting down the days till I get to go see them again.
When do you get to see them next?
October. October 26th, I believe. I'm flying in back to Seattle for my TED Talk and that's when I'll also be able to get to see them.
For people who wanna see your TED talk where are you having it and what are the dates and how can they get tickets?
So it's Ted X Youth in Seattle. I'm not sure the exact address, but it's on October 27th and all of the tickets and address and information, I am pretty sure it would just be on Ted X Youth Seattle. Like their website.
Is that gonna be one of the biggest stages you've had to give a talk so far?
I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. It is. It's definitely something I've been putting a lot of time into and I still plan to put even more time into.
Yeah. I'm excited to see it, so I look forward to you. Yeah it's I'm always impressed when young people are so eloquent and you've definitely impressed me in that way.
And I think, there's so many, most people don't even know that there's this epidemic for the missing and murdered women. And when people who are just finding out about this now, what can they do to support support the mission and support making change in this area?
Of anyone listening, what can they do right now to support you and support the mission
For me it's really just with that visibility. I know that there's not a lot of people who live nearby reservations, or maybe they don't even know anybody who's indigenous, but just little things like standing up against native mascots and or even I've seen people and instructors put land acknowledgements in their syllabuses for classes.
So for example, like at Green River College, one of my professors put a acknowledgement saying. This land is belonging to, or historically belonging to Mukshu Nation, Mukshu Indian Nation. And those kinds of things that really increase the visibility. And even though you might not be directly amplifying the voice of Native Americans, you're amplifying our visibility.
Yep.
And it's, I would definitely say, standing up against native mascot, standing up against, these tropes and these stereotypes that you'll see and hear about native people. I think those, that is really powerful. Not just to the person that you're standing up to or the person that you're educating, but also, for me and for my community and for indigenous communities as a whole.
Yeah. That there is somebody there who's, who cares about our issues as well.
For people who want to learn more about indigenous cultures in general and ones that are by them, what do you recommend they do? I would definitely
recommend maybe first just finding some, there's a lot of social media platforms like Indian country today and these kinds of news articles that definitely keep people up to date.
With with the issues surrounding native people now, as well as maybe even, if you're aware of a native school or a native area around there, just volunteering or anything like that. And really just getting some time with, native youth and the native community and understanding that this is how native youth feel.
And then finding, okay, how can I encourage and how can I support these voices?
Yeah, because there's so many, every tribe and indigenous culture, just like cultures around the world in general, like they're all so fascinating and interesting. Like I think the fact that you have the opportunity to speak your tribal language is huge.
'cause I know that there's many, that the language has been lost.
Yes. And it's definitely my language in particular has taken a lot of reclaiming and it was for a moment in danger, very in danger. But through the efforts of the community, we've been able to, reclaim it and revive it.
And what is your, the name of your language? The Mhu language is.
And is it tied, is it linked to other native languages in the northwest or is it unique in its origin?
I would say that it's similar to other tribes in the, nor in the, in that region of Washington. But it's almost like different dialects. Yep. Like southern hoot seed and northern hoot seed and so on.
But our language, my language in particular has almost nothing in common with the Lakota Right. The language that the la the nation uses, for example, like our language, because we're so far apart is very different.
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Are you are you guys working with linguists to preserve and record the language as well?
Yes. My mom actually is a teacher and protector of the language and she works with various elders. To record and preserve the language.
So you come from a long line of powerful ladies, is what I hear.
Yeah, I'd like to think so. Yeah. My my grandma and my mom are definitely not people that you wanna mess with.
Guess
what does it mean when you hear when I call you a powerful lady, what does that mean to you and what do you hear?
For me to, be called powerful isn't really something that I am called often, so it really makes me feel, I guess strong in la.
Good. I hope so. Yeah. We, I started powerful ladies a couple years ago with the intention to let everyone see. How powerful like they are, right? Like the light that shines in you, how powerful it can be. And that if I can assist people in shining, showing them like where their light is and empowering them to shine it brighter, that it's in turn gonna have a ripple effect where someone else see, finds their light and if it, you pay it forward, right?
So I love the idea of just giving people whatever tools and resources, support community they need to shine brighter and to be living the biggest life that they can, that they want to. When you think about yourself in, five, 10 years. What do you hope to be doing? What do you hope that your life becomes and kinda what are you working towards?
Do you know what you want? You talked about being in, in service, so what do you see your future being as of now? And of course it's gonna change so much because that's what life does, but what do you see right now?
For me right now I know that whatever career that I do take on, it's gonna be one that's either representing or helping support native communities just because that's been my passion since I've been really young.
And I know also that competitively or collegiately or even just recreationally, I know that I wanna keep running as well. Yeah. And that's one of the great sports. 'cause you really can do it forever. Yeah. I have you heard of the Ragnar races? Oh no I haven't. Oh, you would love them. So they happen all around the US and it's a race where you have a team of 12.
And everybody runs three times, so you run 200 miles as a team. It's like a big relay. And Oh, that's, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, it's super fun. So when you guys are off season, I'm sure you guys should look at one to do together. And they do them like road races, but they also do them trail races.
And I've done a couple, and this November I'm doing my first trail. Race like that. And I'm really nervous because I am not a trail runner. At least that's what I think right now. As a woman who, a white woman who grew up in suburbia I was always told don't run at night and don't run in the woods by yourself and so on this race, I have to do both of those things. So it's wait, I'm allowed to run in the dark in the woods. So there's that whole element of just fear of that and like the idea that I might run off a cliff or be attacked by wild animals, let alone like creepy people in the woods. So yeah, there's so many layers to this race beyond just the running part.
With time
especially, I'm sure you're gonna have a lot of miles to adjust. I will say night trail running, it will, I think it will definitely. This is just my hunch. I think it'll definitely suck you in. You might. You might not wanna stop by the time that, you get to where you need to be.
It's it can also be really empowering as a woman to know that you've been told not to run at night and yet you are. And I'm okay. Is that kind of thing that also it might for that moment, for this race or for that leg, I guess might be something that might be hopefully empowering to you?
I'm certainly gonna be thinking of you and I'm doing this race now. Thank you. So if the team that I'm running with, if we wanted to dedicate our run to the missing and murdered indigenous women, how could we do that in a way that would be respectful as none of us that I'm aware of are native?
I think that's something that I would person, I would talk to maybe be, if there's somebody a relative or. Somebody in your community or somebody in the team's community that knows a Native American who can connect you to the issue? Yeah, perfect. Just because it's very difficult and I know that there's a lot of supporters who do want to be supporting this issue.
It can just be very close to appropriation at times, depending on how the paint is worn or
for sure.
Things like that.
All right. That's great advice. I'll ask around. I know that my boyfriend's sister-in-law is native, so maybe I'll start by asking her. I think I'll see her tonight.
Yeah. Definitely one thing that can be really difficult, and I know it's it's really a blurry lines with allies is just, it can be very touchy to represent Native Americans, but without the actual.
Backing of a Native American. If that makes
sense. Totally makes sense.
Yep. So I would definitely I would know what your intentions are. I would just, it's also like a way to protect you and, how people would perceive
your teams Yeah. Attempt. Yeah. 'cause I, we don't, we wanna do if we choose to take that on, we wanna do it to empower.
We don't wanna do it to make a controversial story or take away from the point or anything negative. I love, I think that you're giving great advice about how to do it in the appropriate way and how to do it in the right way so that you're helping not hurting the the cause. Yeah.
Yes. So I think it's a very challenging subject right now with appropriation across all ethnicities of. How do you support and honor cultures that aren't yours without being rude and it's a big topic because I grew up, I remember I was talking to Jordan about this, about for one Halloween I was Jasmine from the Disney Aladdin movie and i'm a white girl with red hair, right? The farthest you can be from looking like Jasmine, but I loved it and I wanted to be her. So of course Disney makes 80 million costumes of everything. So I could just go and buy one off the shelf, but in hindsight, I'm like, I don't know.
Is this, is that inappropriate? Like, how do, especially kids who are so innocent, right? There's, there, there's not a malicious intent. Like it's, I think it's a really tricky subject now of how do you get to honor and. Admire different cultures than yours without being inappropriate.
And I think that's one thing that it is just very touchy because of the, not really sure if you've ever heard of the white savior complex where it can be very difficult just for, non-whites to trust their representation just with other people that aren't their ethnicity because there's just been such a terrible history of misrepresentation Yes.
That it just makes it very difficult to know, okay what is appropriate? And who really also has, the right to speak about these issues.
Yeah. And who has right. Intentions and who doesn't and all of it. All of it. Yeah. It's a very messy, tangled thing that we all have to deal with together.
That's right.
And, I would definitely I would actually, if you don't mind, love to stay in touch and if there's any way I can help with that, with that journey, and I could even honestly, when it comes to things that I don't know about I ask my mentor yeah, Jordan, Daniel, and I say, what do you, what do you think, can you help me out here?
This is what I'm thinking. But I'm also, on this side of this thing. And she really, she's really experienced with these kinds of situations.
I absolutely wanna stay in touch because I think you are a fascinating and amazing, and once you're a powerful lady, you're always a powerful lady in this world.
For sure. And I would be honored for you to guide me through some of these tricky subjects. And I think too, having Jordan as a guest would also be super powerful.
Yeah, she is. She's really amazing. I don't know how she does everything. Every people compliment me. I just say no.
This is who I'm actually learning from. And, who's really given me, the strength and the opportunity to develop. And she's awesome. I don't know how she does all the stuff she does.
So in addition to Jordan, no, I was gonna say powerful ladies, learn from powerful ladies. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
In addition to Jordan and your mother and grandmother, who are other women that inspire you?
I think for sure, like the multiple women in my community that are keeping my traditions alive. And who are leading my community. I have, my friend's parents who are preserving, the traditional nutritional values and who will make traditional foods and really teach us about nutrition and how we feed our bodies in a way that heals not only heals us physically, but spiritually and, through our traditions and a lot of native women, indigenous women who are leading the fight through these social and political issues, but also in keeping traditions alive and leading our communities and raising their communities.
I think as much as native women are exposed to violence, they're also resilient.
For sure. I would say that there are many women in this world and. Who aren't getting enough credit for how resilient they are. Yes, absolutely. It's I think that there is something really special happening in general where so many women around the world are finding their or voice and their niche, I was reading an article the other day about I think the hashtag, and forgive me if I'm getting it wrong, I'll put the correct one for everyone listening in our show notes, but I believe it's the hashtag just the hashtag Brown women and how women from India in particular and the Indian background are taking it on to really show that yes, culturally there's a lot of stereotypes, but look at everything else we're doing.
There's the woman who is the first woman of late night, and she is Canadian and she is of of a minority and she is L-G-B-T-Q. And she, is female. Like all these boxes got checked at once for a late night program. And she's yeah, so what I'm all these things and so are most people like that.
It's not like we represent one box ever. So I think it's really cool to see what's happening and I look forward to seeing like what happens next, right? I grew up thinking I could do whatever I wanted and I, and to think that there is like a another level that can go for the next generation I find fascinating.
I really appreciate, especially I'm personally is a queer native woman and so it's it can be really difficult to explain the type of intersectional like experiences that we have.
And
especially with, the na, the murdered missing indigenous women epidemic.
It is a intersectional issue between race and gender. And also, it does come sexual orientation and even economic status and these kinds of Yep. A lot of people really neglect the intersectional issues that come along with these kinds of problems.
For sure. It's so much easier to put us in a box and to say it's this way or that way.
It's left or it's right. And not have to look at the fact that everyone is overlapping concentric circles that makes you. Yeah. Absolutely. Does that add how is it being identifying as a queer indigenous woman, like how does that impact you within the indigenous community? In my indigenous community
and that identifying as queer is really really doesn't make much of a difference, I would say in my community and my reservation.
How awesome. However in other outside of my community, it can be really challenging. Or especially, when I am in a relationship with another woman, it becomes very intimidating to spend time with my partner at that time when in public and in certain areas we won't even present as dating.
Yeah. Just because there's been so many verbal and or even nonverbal kind of confrontations that come with that. And I think it really just. Makes you even more vulnerable or exposes you even more to that kind of violence.
Yes. Yeah. You already have to do, you already have to be protective as a female, and then the statistics show you have to be extra protective if you're native and female.
And then you layer on another of falling into L-G-B-T-Q status. When you look at having three layers of things that you have to be prepared to protect yourself for does it occur as overwhelming ever or is it just what and that's what you're working to change the world about?
I definitely say that at times it really can be overwhelming especially in the way that, I finding myself oversexualized in certain ways, oversexualized when I'm in a relationship with another girl and oversexualized in Halloween costumes, the Pocahontas
and
oversexualized as a woman.
Yeah. In general. And through, seeing constant types of media. If I'm not being over, if I'm not being, fetishized in some way through being queer or through being native, I am still a, I'm still a woman. I still present and as a woman. Yeah. So that it really is sometimes no break to the way I'm perceived as sexual, even if I really don't want to be.
Yep. Yeah. It's I, that's probably not talked about enough, of how it just keeps showing up and you're like, I'm so many other things, like
yeah. Or this isn't exactly what about my identity that I wanted you to focus on.
Yeah. It's it's, there's so many small.
They're small in in quantity, but they're, they can be large in magnitude of how all the images throughout a day, they start to, they add up. Yeah, I'm really proud with how it's been changing in regards to imagery of women as athletes. I think that there's a lot of good work happening of showing the variety of female athletes in regards to shape and sizes and colors and orientations and all of that. And, I really enjoy just watching the Women's World Cup this year and seeing what the team USA did to. Back up the things they stood for by playing great and playing great together. And then I, yeah, there's just so many, and the running community in general, when it's a, when there's so many people taking up that sport and so many different types of runners, I like that it's a, it's one of the sports that there's mutual respect because of how everyone knows how hard you have to work and how much you have to sacrifice. You as an athlete, what do you focus on to perform at your best? Do you follow a strict nutritional diet, like all that stuff?
For me it's definitely like taking care of myself first. So I wouldn't say that I'm restricted with my diet, but I am inclusive in the sense that I know that I'm getting healthy foods. So I don't necessarily. I do. I might look at the donut and say, what is that really gonna do for me?
Yeah. I definitely wouldn't say that I really, torture myself in the sense that for example, my team, my teammate brought donuts after the meat. I'm not going to, especially after the meat, I'm not going to say no you can't gimme this donut. I'm on this very strict diet, yeah.
Or I make waffles on Sundays, that kind of thing. But I definitely don't, I wouldn't say that I like gorge on anything or binge eat. And then I do make sure that with my meals, that I'm getting healthy foods and vegetables and fruits just because I know that it makes me feel better when I run and when I compete.
Along with just getting a normal, adequate amount of sleep and those things, and like drinking enough water. So I wouldn't say necessarily that I'm strict with what I do as much as I am just, I prioritize taking care of myself. Yeah. Good. Everyone should,
yeah, running just makes it a little bit easier because you feel like you have to.
Yes. Yeah. There's a, when when you're, when you need your body as your machine, it becomes really evident that you have to take care of it.
Yeah,
for
sure.
We ask everyone on the podcast where you put yourself on the powerful Lady scale, zero being average, everyday human, and 10 being super powerful lady.
Where do you see yourself on average and where do you see yourself today?
I'd definitely say that as, as weird, I guess as that sounds, that I would consider myself average and not necessarily to debunk anything that I've done or to, diminish anything that I've done or the work that I've put in.
But to say that I think that the amount of impact that I can make is equal to any average woman.
Perfect. And then as we're wrapping up today, what do you want people to know and what message do you wanna leave everyone with?
I would say that, as somebody who feels silenced or somebody in a minority group in any kind of way through sexual orientation, through gender or through race, or even through adaptive abilities, knowing that you do have a platform and that you do have opportunity in your everyday life and through the things that you love and just paying attention to the activists around you and to the powerful women around you, you can find ways to you'll be surprised how easily inspired and moved you are to do something yourself.
I love it. I am so honored that you are a yes to the Powerfully podcast. I am so proud of Yes. Who you are and what you're up to, and how much you've already accomplished that. I look so forward to staying in touch and supporting you and giving you whatever resources I have access to, to help magnify what you're up to and support you.
This has been such a pleasure and yes, good luck at your next race and good luck at your TEDx and yeah. You are incredible. So thank you so much. Yeah, thank you for giving me this opportunity and I really enjoyed talking to you as well.
Between Rosalie Fish and Greta Thornburg, I hope that the adults in this world are waking up to the fact that we are not doing enough to leave the world a better place. We should be ashamed that it is the newest generation that is calling all of us out to step up and be brave and make the decisions that we know need to be made.
Rosalie is 18 and so well-spoken, so powerful, so graceful and proudly taking on the weight of native causes. It's not easy to be the face and represent a group to which you are just one member and she's doing an amazing job. If you're inspired and motivated by Rosalee, you can buy tickets to her upcoming TEDx Youth Talk in Seattle.
Tickets are available through the link in the show notes@powerfulladies.com. Reach out to native and indigenous people in your community and provide opportunities for them to have a platform to tell their story and her their voices to be heard. You can also email her directly at rosalie fish@gmail.com and follow her on Instagram at Rosalie Fish at.
Of course, please go to the powerful ladies.com to see all of the show notes that we have for this episode. Get correct spellings, direct links, and all the additional information. If you'd like to support the work that we're doing here at Powerful Ladies, there's a couple of ways you can do that.
Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Google Play, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave a review on any of these platforms. Share the show with all the powerful ladies and gentlemen in your life. Join our Patreon account. Check out the website, the powerful ladies.com. To hear more inspiring stories.
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I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. She's one of the first female audio engineers in the podcasting world, if not the first, and she also happens to be the best. We're very lucky to have her. She's a powerful lady in her own right, in addition to taking over the podcasting world.
She's a singer songwriter working on her next album, and she's one of my sisters, so it's amazing to be creating this with her, and I'm so thankful that she finds time in her crazy busy schedule to make this happen. It's a testament to her belief in what we're creating through Powerful Ladies, and I'm honored that she shares my vision.
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Episode 170: From the Skatepark To The Frontlines | Rose Archie | Nations Skate Youth
Episode 270: Skating Across America to Break the Silence | Melissa Skeet on MMIP, Healing and Speaking Out
Buy tickets to her upcoming TedX Youth Talk in Seattle.
Reach out to Native & Indigenous people in your community and provide opportunities for them to have a platform to tell their story and their voices to be heard
Follow her on instagram @rosaliefishx
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
