Episode 43: From Dark Times to Comedy Gold | Kelly Zabielski | Producer of the Jim Jefferies Podcast

EntrepreneurshipPodcasterActor / Comedian

Dec 11

Kelly Zabielski, also known as Kelly Blackheart, is a powerhouse in the comedy podcast world. She produces the Jim Jefferies Podcast, co-hosts The Unsolicited Podcast, and is about to launch a new show with DJ Qualls. Her path here wasn’t straightforward. She’s battled depression, survived life-altering challenges, and walked away from a lucrative career in renewable energy to follow her passion for comedy and storytelling. Kelly shares how her life experiences shaped her humor, why kindness is one of her guiding principles, and the importance of taking big risks to chase joy. She talks about growing up in a liberal, open household in Chicago, playing Division I volleyball, and how a Second City writing class changed the course of her life. Kelly’s story is equal parts raw honesty and hilarious anecdotes, reminding us that the messiest parts of life can also be the most inspiring.

“A lot of what I do is try to get people to recognize that kindness is really important. With kindness, we can solve a lot of issues.”

— Kelly Zabielski

MySpace
Jim Je fferies
Unsolicited Podcast
DJ Qua lls
Dav e Chappelle
Cancel Cu lture
Loui s C.K.
Mas sachusetts
Mit t Romne y
Chicago
Justin Trudeau
Bill Burr
David Spade
Shane Gil lis
Volleyball
Cal State Northridge
renewable e nergy
Depression
Suicide Preven tion H otline
Tosh.0
Second City
Married at First Sight
Nake d & Afra id
India
egg donat ion
Amy S c humer
Tick Tock
Bill G ates
Bill Ma her
James Cord en
N utri t ion R esponse Test ing
Keto
Italy
Medical Tour ism
Columbia
Germs Guns and Steel
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Meet Kelly Zabielski
04:15 From Chicago to Los Angeles: Finding Her Place
10:00 Comedy’s Darker Roots: How Hardship Shapes Humor
14:45 Producing the Jim Jefferies Podcast
19:20 The Unsolicited Podcast and Upcoming Projects
25:35 Walking Away from a Six-Figure Salary for Happiness
32:50 How a Writing Class Changed Everything
39:05 Battling Depression and Finding Purpose
44:30 The Role of Kindness in Comedy and Life
50:15 Favorite Moments from Working in Comedy
56:40 Travel, Life Lessons, and Global Adventures
01:02:10 What’s Next for Kelly Zabielski
A lot of what I do is trying to get people to recognize that kindness is like very important. I think with kindness we solve a lot of issues.
That's Kelly Zabielski and this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something, and the extraordinary to come and share their story. I hope that you'll be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Kelly is a woman you should know in a comedy podcast world. She's part of three podcasts currently. She's the producer of the Jim Jeffries podcast, has her own the unsolicited podcast and is about to launch a third. That's a lot of podcasts, and at the least how many she needs to share her own witty and wise view on the world, plus her own hilarious approach to life in general.
On this episode, we discussed the impact of cancel culture, how her struggle with depression led her to comedy, why both liberals and conservatives need to chill out and so much more.
Thank you for coming to The Powerful Ladies podcast. Thanks for podcast. But you are recommended to me by our mutual friend, Trav Mo. Travis Moore, and I'm so glad that he did. So how do you know him and how did you end up in the seat from that perspective?
Travis and I met like probably 10 years ago.
And it might've been on a dating app. It might've been on like MySpace or something, I can't even remember. But we hung out and just like instantly clicked. But it was definitely very much a friendship. Yeah. He's wild. Yes. It's now it blows my mind that he's a dad and he's married and all this stuff, and I'm like, what the hell happened?
Because the Travis I knew before. Wow. But I, he, I love him. He's so great. Yeah. And he's always been very like, supportive of me. I tend to put like my online dating conversations online and he's just always like more of these. So we've kept in touch. I haven't seen him in a long time, but it's just, social media is beautiful for that.
'cause you don't actually have to leave your couch to have relationships. So that's really fun.
Yes. And I would love for you to introduce yourself. Who you, who are you and what are you up to?
So my name is Kelly Zabielski. Although most people know me as Kelly Blackheart social media. Yay. And currently I am working on the Jim Jeffrey Show.
So I produce his podcast. We're starting a new one of his individually. I have my own podcast called the Unsolicited Podcast, and I'm starting one with DJ Quals pretty soon. So a lot of podcasting in my life right now, which I never thought would be the direction, but here we are. It's podcasting is so much fun.
It is.
I love it.
Is it self-serving that I'm gonna be on three podcasts?
Yes. But I, if you're making stuff that people wanna hear, then I think you're just being a contribution to society. There
you go. Okay. I will take that. 'cause that's better than mine.
No, but I could literally do this every day.
It is so much fun to just especially when you have guests on. 'cause we will have guests every once in a while and just being able to get to know people and hear their stories. Yes. It's so awesome.
It's my favorite thing. I wanna go back to you and the fact that you are a powerful woman who is behind some of the, biggest, most influential and controversial like male c comedians out there.
I'm a huge fan of Jim Jeffries. I cry laughing every time I listen or watch anything that he does. And. I think it's really interesting 'cause he loves the C word.
Yes.
And it is a word that means nothing to me.
I don't think to me personally, no word is offensive. And I understand that there are words that are offensive to different groups of people.
I, it's, it almost impossible to offend me, but cunt is so cultural and regional. So like in Australia and England and those places, it's not necessarily a vicious insult. You can be a favorable cunt. You can be the worst cunt ever. And there's, they have a spectrum for it.
So there, that's just it could be a term of endearment. You're talking to your friends or whatever, and so they just use it so casually. But when. When it's used here, it's generally used by a man towards a woman, and it's meant with, it's got vitriol. Yes. It's bad.
Yeah. So that's why I think that there has been a little bit of a disconnect with his comedy in people, like my mom's demographic, like that age of people, because they're not used to hearing that word as something that doesn't have to be super offensive. But it's weird to me that people find offense in words specifically when they're not aimed at people in a malicious way.
Yes. I
think we put a lot of weight into things that aren't meant to be offensive.
Yeah. And especially in the space of comedy. Like what is okay and not Okay. Who can say things, who can't say things. I think it's really interesting. Yeah. Like the new Dave Chappelle show that came out.
It's so offensive and it's so funny. Like I, you're laughing and you're like, I'm a bad human for laughing at this and I can't not laugh at this. It's triggering me to laugh because of how honest it is and what it shines a light on, which I think is what comedy's supposed to do.
Totally. Hold up a mirror and be like, look, you're all idiots.
Yeah. There's so much going on right now about cancel culture and defensive jokes and stuff like that. And while I can understand something I truly think that there needs to be a well-crafted joke around something that's offensive.
Yes.
If you're being lazy and picking low hanging fruit and saying things that are offensive, just 'cause it's gonna trigger people. I just don't really respect your comedy. That being said, if we take away every offensive thing that a comic can say, we're taking away joy because comedy should be, it's like the last outlet for making people laugh when things are hard.
You look at 90% of comedians and they've all have had really fucking hard lives. Yes. It's funny often, and they're funny because they are working through the pain by making light of certain things. So I think everybody's perception is they live these fluffy lives because a lot of them are rich now, but it's no.
They all came from the same place you did. Their parents were abusive or they were alcoholics, or they were raped, or whatever the hell it was. It's we all have our struggles and you're putting your projection of what you think that person is, that they're saying it from a place of privilege, but that's not usually the case.
So I think if we start silencing comics. Especially. It's like we are gonna lose a lot of joy.
And if you just believe in the First Amendment in general I hate the fact that people can use that and spread hate.
Oh, totally.
But I can't tell 'em to shut up because I don't ever want somebody tell me to shut up.
So what do we do? My argument is I start my own podcast where we can talk about things that are good for society versus bad. Like you just have other people talking more. I, it makes me very nervous that, to your point of the cancel culture, like when do we tell people to stop?
How do we. How do we evaluate what is causing a negative cultural impact and what isn't? And who makes that call? I think it's really challenging Yeah. Right now to know where you should end up.
The caveat to the cancel culture thing though is I, nobody's really getting canceled for anything, it's this, it's almost like a boogeyman.
People keep talking about how this is ruining everything. Yeah. People are saying, shut the fuck up. Don't say that. That's offensive. That no, nobody's getting canceled. And so now I am getting pretty annoyed with comedy that's just oh, I'm gonna get canceled for this. And then they just say women should get back in the kitchen.
It's you're being lazy. Yeah. Do something better. You're comics, you're supposed to craft. Thought out jokes to make us laugh. Just saying, I'm gonna go to this. Place and yell offensive things like that's not funny. No. The only person that I can think of that really got canceled for their beliefs and things they said is Colin Kaepernick.
And he didn't say anything offensive. Like he should not have been canceled. Everybody else who's like doing bad shit, Louis CK is out touring again. Yeah. So it's cancel culture's not real. Yeah.
And I think Louis CCK is an interesting example. And I was talking about this to some friends and actually one was male and I, and he got very offended about what I was saying, which I was shocked by I wait men getting offended.
No. Cool. And I think me offending people, I found shocking because I'm person are men
not the most triggered people. Right now women are so sensitive, except it's men that are very fucking triggered by everything.
This is true. There are a lot of men making very irrational decisions. Yeah. Right now.
No, we were talking about it and I was like, i'm gonna preface this by saying that I don't ever want someone to think they can't defend themselves, speak up for themselves, have their opinions, be heard. Like I was caught off guard by how many women weren't feeling that they could say what happened.
And feel supported and have a voice like, I'm doing this podcast and this business because I want people to know how powerful they are. Whatever they're dealing with. And then there's, we have so many cases now of whatever it is, whatever the offense is that's happening to people. And when I heard this, the Louis C.
Case story in context to all of the horrible things that are coming out. My first reaction was till F. Because I'm thinking back to. How many times you've been at a party or you've been where people are hammered and male or female people are getting naked and running around just being idiots.
And I'm like, okay you just leave. Or you laugh and walk out of the room. I'm like, I, it's hard for me to relate to that being on the scale of something that we should all be worried about because there's a level of not feeling trapped
in
that story that I'm like, did I not hear it correctly?
Were they held against their will? Were they like forced to stay there? Just because you saw someone's penis? I don't know if that qualifies as I don't know. Yeah. I kinda had
the same feeling. Just because I think there's a spectrum and this kind of goes along with everything, especially like in politics right now, everything's so heated and there are so many things that people are getting upset about.
And I think that hardcore liberals are just as bad as hardcore conservatives because they just can't figure out how to pick their battles. It's like when we talk about gay rights and these types of things, it's like what's the most important thing right now? Because for your hardcore conservative people, they need to dip their toes into the water.
It's not gonna be overnight. I accept everyone and whatever your pronouns are, we'll use them and that's fine. So the way to get people to change a is not to come at them and make them defensive. It's not to call them bigots. It's like a lot of people are victims of where they grew up and they just don't know any better.
It's not 'cause they're bad people, it's 'cause they have no exposure to. Diversity. Yep. So I find it really interesting 'cause people on social media are so tough. And so it's like person misspeaks one word and it's like the barrage Yeah. Of hate. And it's pick your battles. Is this important?
Is somebody using the right pronouns on somebody they've never met or heard of? Is that important? Or is are gay rights important? Or, it's it's just everything's getting so convoluted and that's why liberals sound like idiots because it sounds like we're triggered by everything when it's really just the extremes.
And so if you don't wanna be lumped in with your extreme conservatives that are white supremacists. Let the rest of us be normal liberals that just think everybody should have equal rights.
And it's it brings up the question of are we moving collectively in the right direction or are we just splitting people up?
It's like almost impossible to tell right now. It's really hard. It's and at the root of everything, nobody wants anyone to feel offended. Nobody wants anyone to be sexually assaulted or prejudiced against, or we we don't want anyone to be anything but empowered. So it's okay, we all agree.
Yes. I agree with you. Like, where are those baby steps? Or we can get everyone to start saying yes together. Like even when healthcare came out, we were in, I was in Massachusetts when they passed healthcare for everyone in Massachusetts. And ironically, MIT Romney was the governor when this happened.
Which he then denied fine binders full of women. So binders full of pos powerful ladies. Yeah. So that passed and when they were pushing it across the us do I think that having healthcare allows people to have inequality that we don't understand if we have it? Yes. Would pe more people be pro for it if we said, let's give healthcare to everyone under 18 and everyone over 65, probably.
No one usually argues about helping out an elderly person or a sick kid. So to your point, why did we have to say everything now when we could have had a whole lot now and then next year gotten the rest of it?
Yeah. It's, a lot of times it's about baby steps. It's what can we do to ease people into this?
And for a lot of people. Like I, I am from Chicago and I grew up in a very liberal, open, welcoming family. And so that's what I thought Chicago was. And then I moved out here, and then when I go back to visit, I'm like, oh man, it's so much more conservative than I ever thought it was. And so there are certain things to me, and I've been living out here for 15 years, there are certain things to me that just seem very normal.
And they're not like radical ideas, but to some people that's like the most radical thing that you could possibly come up with. Yeah. So it really truly is about having some perspective about what do these people, what is their day to day like, who are these people? What's important to them? And then figure out how to appeal to one little part of their being to do that baby step.
And yes, of course. So if that had been the case by now, we'd probably have universal healthcare. Yeah.
Yes.
But now, yeah, it's gotta be everything now or nothing, and it's Ugh, this is not gonna work.
We just wrapped up an episode. I had two lawyers, they just started their own firm together, and we're talking about criminal justice and how we assume that everyone has the same method of logic or the same abilities.
And we don't just by the sense of not having the same experiences. So how do you meet people where they are to tell them, like to onboard them on what this topic is and why it might be important. Like instead of having more conversations or having less
i'm like,
no, we should be talking more.
It is important that people who are, i'm not gonna find the right word right now, but people who are oppressed right now it is important that they get unoppressed as soon as possible. It's not the same as healthcare, like when somebody's afraid of their life or they don't have rights.
That's, that has to change now. Yeah. So how do we have those conversations as fast as possible so that it just becomes normalized or it becomes. No big deal.
Yeah an
automatic Yes. I don't think
people are good at listening anymore. Like I truly think that the problem is nobody listens.
They're just waiting for you to stop talking so they can give you their point. And so it's two people talking to each other for an hour and a half, but nobody knows what the other person said. But it's man, I killed that. And especially on social media, it's, these people posting seven paragraph things.
I'm like, I don't have time to read your diatribe about why you hate Colin Kaepernick. I'm just not going to read this. Yeah. Because I'm, I know. I'm gonna hate it. I know. I'm gonna hate what you said. Nobody's really good at listening, so everything needs to be in digestible little bites and memes.
Everyone should get their politics from memes. It's wild. So going back to comedians, right? That's how we, it's amazing from comedians. We've evolved to social justice in four sentences. But what is it really like to work with Jim and work with other comedians, and what is your day to day like?
So Jim's brilliant. He actually, I don't think he's as famous as he should be. He's done eight specials in seven years. He's about to film another one. And he just did one last December, or last January. And that's insane. There are some people that go their entire career doing one special like Jerry Seinfeld.
So you think about that and just the way that he takes these really complex. Topics and makes them digestible for people that maybe don't know, don't have a lot of the facts about certain things, or like his gun control bit to me is one of the most brilliant things I've ever seen in my entire life.
And by the end of it, I can't even imagine that a per a person who like really loved having their guns couldn't be like, man, he is right. He really just shoots bullets through, through every argument. And it's just so funny too, and I don't think a lot of what he says is even that offensive.
It's just Hey, that's a stupid argument. So he's really great. We've actually become very close especially now after doing the podcast. So when I was approached about doing the podcast, I had never. Touched Premier before, and they're like, you're gonna, you're gonna produce the podcast?
I'm like, you sure you're in the right office? I don't know why you're here. So I just figured everything out on the spot. And at first I was just, doing the sound and then I would edit it. But by the end of it, it's like I had a mic and I was contributing. So we've become very close and he'll invite me over for parties or whatever.
And so he's just a really good guy and I think he's very misunderstood. 'Cause sometimes he'll say things publicly and then he comes back. He's no, that's not what I meant. And I'm like, that's what you said though. So now everybody thinks that. So yeah, I think, but I think a lot of comics are, and that's the downfall of being in a career that's in the public eyes every soundbite. Becomes news. And some things are said specifically as a joke or there's not a lot of context around what you've said. Yeah. The things that people pull. And so people get mad about certain things and it's no.
If you had the whole story here, you would understand that this is not salacious at all. But, we're living in the time where nobody wants to do any research. Everybody's, everything's click bait, everything is i'll read a headline and form a full fledged opinion about this thing without reading anything into it.
So it is interesting. It's an interesting time to be a comic for sure.
You're guilty before innocent. Totally. Right now. Yeah. No matter who you are. Yeah. And it's unfortunate because you wanna, I don't know, you, you hope that you get the benefit of doubt if you have a bad day. Or you're an idiot in a moment.
What I think is, interesting for our time as well, is punishing people for things that happened. A long time ago.
I completely agree.
I don't, I really don't know what the solution should be. And I feel really bad for Justin Trudeau. Trudeau, yeah. Trudeau in Canada, because most things he's done occur to me not being Canadian or into the full system. Seem to be moving in the right direction. And then to have this stuff come out and you're like,
damnit. We were rooting for you. What am I supposed to do with this? I truly think that you have to look at situations in the full context of who the person is.
Yes, this is bad. Don't, everybody knows you shouldn't do that. But did we know 20 years ago, was it as, and we should have known 20 years ago, but was it. Was it something that everybody knew was like terribly offensive? No, not the same way as they do today. Let's look at what he's done since then.
He's been more progressive than pretty much anyone in rights for minorities and all that stuff. So it's let's look at his resume and see what he's done and then compare it in the context of the full story. I, but I completely agree with you because there are certain things, whether it's words that we've used in the past or even not rape, obviously.
'cause I, I think rape has been known to be bad for a very long time. Yeah. But when you think about like sexual harassment or even sexual, like minor sexual assault, I think about my history of growing up and there are certain things, I've been raped three times and sexually assaulted fuck a million times.
I'm so sorry. Oh, that's fine. I'm good now. And there are certain things that like have now formed. My strong opinions about things, but it's like there are a couple situations that I didn't even recognize that as rape. And it's because of who we, who society raised us to be as we're women and we are objects to men.
And if this is a friend of yours, he didn't mean it maliciously, so it's not rape. 'Cause our perception of rape was this guy in an alley with a gun holding it to your head saying, take off your clothes, I'm gonna fuck you. And so when things happen with people you knew, that's not rape, that's my friend.
And so the more I, as I get older, I'm like, oh, this is really bad. But also, if I didn't know that, how would he have known that? Like how I'm always trying to think of things in terms of is this malicious? Is this person out to hurt me or. Are they a victim of society too and just didn't have the information.
So I'm like really excited for young people now that they have, consent is such a huge topic right now, and I think kids are gonna have autonomy over their own bodies and all that stuff, and probably not feel scared to come out and tell people that things have happened to them. And that's like really exciting.
That hopefully they won't have to grow up that way. Yeah. But like I was talking to my best friend Colleen, and we both have decided that we don't wanna have kids. And one of the reasons was like every person that I know that's a really great person that I wanna have in my life is somebody who's been through some really fucked up shit.
And do you have kids and then hope that they go through something traumatic because that's the only way they're not gonna be a shithead or I don't know. I don't know what the answer is there. Everybody who doesn't have a really terrible story. I'm like, yeah, you suck. I, that's what it was.
I knew I didn't like you that much and it's 'cause you had a peachy life.
It definitely is a topic in regards to even what do you do when you are, you end up having a privileged life and you do have kids and you're like,
dammit.
No, you can never have a Christmas because I have to take something away.
Yeah.
Like how do you, how, if you have enough
money, you just stage a kidnapping or something. Something traumatic that will ruin them for a solid three to four years. Just get them some and then get them in therapy immediately. 'cause they will need to deal with it. Some baseline scarring.
Yes. Gotta do it early on. Puppies. Puppies in a van, whatever. And people probably don't charge that much for it.
I'm just thinking of that as a new business model. Discount,
kidnapping,
or just keep your kids on the good and narrow path.
Is your kid being a
shithead?
Yeah. Oh, that, I feel like that would be a skit in F is for family for some reason. Oh, yeah. I should start writing that immediately. Yeah. He's one of my favorite comedians. Bill Burr.
Yeah. Jim and Bill were just on David Spade show last week, and that was one of the controversial things where they were talking about Shane Gillis, the guy who got fired from SNL and Jim hadn't seen the clips.
He like had only heard a little bit about it. Yeah. And basically what he was saying is I don't think people should get fired for what they say. Then it like turn, it looks like he's defending this guy to the death. This guy shouldn't get fired. He's Shane. And he's funny. And he's I don't fucking know this guy.
Like he, I just don't have the information. And it feels like the producer of the show should have been like, here are the videos, here's what we're talking about. But now he looks like he's just defending this guy for using racial swords. He's I didn't see it. And I'm like you're on TV now. Yeah.
Don't talk about what you didn't do your research on. Oh, it's so hard. So how did you end up in the comedy space? Like how did you go from Chicago here? How did you end up producing podcasts?
So I played volleyball in college. So I got a full scholarship to Cal State Northridge and came out here and did not move back after college because it doesn't snow here.
And that's wonderful. Or it does, but you can choose to drive there. So I actually started working in renewable energy. Towards the end of college. And then I did that for 11 years. So I was in renewable energy and towards the end of it I was working in finance. And I've dealt with depression my entire life.
I attempted suicide in high school and was in the hospital for a week. And so I, it's like I have these moments, but I got to the end of my career in finance and the last six months I was just dead inside. Every day I had suicidal ideations and I have nephews now. So it's that was the only thing keeping me from doing something.
And my brother and sister-in-law, so my oldest brother is a director, producer, and he's worked in comedy for a really long time. So he directed Tosh Point Oh for seven years. And he'd always been trying to get me into comedy and I'm like. No, I make a lot of money. I'm not changing careers to go be a PA and be somebody's bitch.
It's just not gonna happen. He and my sister-in-law bought me second city class, like a writing class for Christmas. And so I started taking that and it was just this click because what had been happening is I was really good at my job, but I did the same thing every day. I presented the same thing.
There was no room for creativity. And when you're a creative. And you suppress that part of your brain, it literally kills you. Yeah. And so I started taking this writing class and within the first day of being at the writing class, I was like, there was a little bit of spark and it was, which was weird because I hadn't had a spark of anything in a really long time.
And so I was like, oh, this is really fun. And then he got the Jim Jeffrey show. So he's a showrunner there. And I was joking around. I was like, I'll be a pa whatever. He's no, now that I have a show, will you come work for me? And I was like, fuck. Yeah. So I took $110,000 pay cut at 30 years old, changed careers and I still make a lot less than I did before, but I'm so much happier.
It's it's like night and day. And I think I'll always be a baseline level of depressed. I was just with my cousin yesterday and she's similar to me and she's I've just come to the real, accepted that I'll never be happy. And then she took it back right away.
'cause I think she felt like she was talking to somebody else. I was like no, don't take it back. I get that completely. Where your baseline level is just always a little lower than everybody else's. I'll never be super excited about anything. But I get that completely. It's just content.
And when I was super depressed and suicidal, it's not because things were terrible and I was bawling my eyes out. It was just meh, life is whatever. And I don't really, it was just more apathy than anything. But now I definitely, so when I say I'm the happiest I've ever been, I am. But it's not like I'm jumping for joy every day to be at work.
I'd still rather be day drinking.
I think you're speaking for 99% of the population as well. Of Oh,
okay. Good. Everybody else is just a good actor.
Yeah. It's do you wanna go to work or do you wanna day drink? So perfect example today. Most of my friends that live near me are having a beach day for a friend's birthday.
They, I didn't see the announcement for this until two days ago. And this has been on the books for months. 'Cause we plan ahead. 'cause people need to organize things and we're powerful. So we got lots of shit going on. Yep. And my boyfriend Jesse had been like, yep, we'll both be there.
And I had to be the one right back. I have to go to my job that I love and I wish I had a beach day. I'm like, no. So I just added it to the list of things that I'm like sacrificing to make this happen. But if you can choose having if day drinking with your closest friends and like crying, laughing.
It could be an everyday opportunity. Like people would always choose that.
Yeah.
And I really, you mentioned like you're a creative and if you're, when you're not creative, you aren't using part of your soul.
Yeah.
And I think that's true for everybody. I don't know who thought that some people are creative and some people aren't.
Who decided that? Because I would like to smack them and we put so much effort into all of our work goes into what we do, nine to five. But I don't know, are you really feeding your soul? 'cause some jobs don't feed your soul.
Totally. I've talked to my brother about this and it's we're both pursuing what we love and it makes me so sad to think about people like, and I'm from the Midwest, so I always just go back to people in the Midwest.
It's like these people that. Are like, I got a promotion at Ikea and I'm like, are you doing what you wanna do? Is being the regional manager at a sit and sleep, is that your dream? Or were you told that you are stupid for trying to pursue your dreams and so you just settled into some life?
It makes me so sad that there are just, yes. The majority of the country are just people settling for a nine to five 'cause it pays the bills and then they probably don't even wanna have kids. But this is the next step. Like when I was 17, they asked what my five year plan was and I'm like, obviously I'll be married and have probably my first kid.
And then I moved out here. I was like, fuck that and no thanks. It's just so weird how being, especially being from a certain area and if there's religion involved and all of that stuff, people just do what they're told they're supposed to do. And that's gotta be, it's gotta be so suffocating.
We don't encourage people to pause and look up.
Like we some people would say it's a conspiracy theory, right? That different societies have you all wound up about shit that doesn't matter. But I think we do it to ourselves, like it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of all we think about is like getting a job on time and traffic and the weather and what are we eating next?
And what am I gonna watch? And when you stop, you're like, wait, I don't give a shit about any of this stuff. Like, why am I spending time talking about traffic?
Yeah,
I don't care. No, like people,
when I visit home, the conversation all the time is so weather's pretty good in California.
I'm like it fucking every year. Every year. The weather's good in California. I don't know why we have to do this every fucking year. Yeah. Do you, you haven't seen me in a year, are we really gonna do this? Yes. It's fucking, I will pull out my weather app. We'll just go over the week real quick and then can we move on to some real shit?
Yeah. I don't understand what we're doing here. Totally. Tattoos as well. So I've noticed you have 'em, I have 'em all over my arms. Yes. And the amount of times that people will grab my arm and twist it around so they can see something, I'm like, a, what the fuck are you doing?
This is assault B, if I wanna tell you what my tattoos mean I will. But they don't really mean it. I have a fucking Waynes world tattoo. So like I, it means joy.
Is that it? Let's not
pretend that mine are very high brow. I just get tattoos that I like. But yeah, I can't stand when people touch me.
Not even people I like,
I wanna have kids because I think they're like just. Small comedians.
Oh, totally.
So I just want kids around to have me laugh at what's happening in the world.
Yeah. I would do it for the Facebook likes. Like sometimes I think getting married and having kids is only for the Facebook likes.
I'm like, this is cheating. What I wrote was brilliant, and now you put a fucking baby in her picture and you've got more likes than me. Fuck you. So I use my nephews for that a lot. But my nephew Jack is really funny and he's such a ham, he loves to perform. And and my brother is super, super funny.
So sometimes he'll tell him what to say and just the fact that he can crack me up. Yeah. He, it like, it just lights up his whole life.
I love when kids do something and they look at you like, ta-da. Yeah. Waiting for the response. I'm like, yes. I wish people presented like that at work.
Oh, I know, right?
They did a presentation numbers, ta-da. I'd be happier. I kids are way smarter than adults, so I, whatever we can do in society to stop becoming adults in the shitty way would be awesome.
Kids are so true to themselves. It's there, there comes a point where vulnerability is bad.
At someone in your life, and that's when you lose all of that authenticity. Like kids don't care about coming off clingy or saying something stupid. It's just that's who they are. And then at some point, it's probably like middle school really, where that sets in and you're like no. Feelings are bad.
Don't say what you actually think. Play a game all the time. And it's just what are we doing? So you literally just suffocate your joy from such a young age. Yeah. I'm trying to get better at that and be more mindful of things, but it's hard when you're conditioned that way. It's like when it comes to dating, everybody's always playing games.
I'm like, why are we doing this? I'm TMI from the minute I meet you. Because I need to know if you can deal with me a hundred percent. Like the idea of dating somebody for six months and we're both on our best behavior and then all of a sudden we like fall into comfortability. I didn't sign up to date this person.
No.
And you didn't sign up to date this one. So I will be exactly the same way as I am day one, as I am a year from now.
Yes.
And so sometimes TMI scares you off right away, but at least I know that right away.
This is why I think how people would meet and date in old fashioned times was more effective because often your first meeting was some horrible full family experience.
Oh, you wanna go into come to Sunday dinner,
right?
If you can survive Sunday dinner with my family, you automatically move into a very unique ation. I thought
You automatically move in with me. I'm like, wow.
Holy shit. No. But there's an automatic level of. Things that go away.
And I also don't think we're not, we are our own worst enemy when it comes to picking people to spend our time with sometimes. So I think that there is some value to people that really love you being like, no, yes, no. Yes. 'Cause there's no bullshit factor.
Arranged marriages are still the majority of the marriages on earth.
And they. They work. And it's have you guys heard of Married at First Sight? Yes. Okay. So I love that show. So I was a psych major in a human sexuality minor in college. So I'll watch any reality show that centers around dating as trashy as it goes. I don't care. But married at first sight is such an interesting concept and people are like, that's so weird.
I'm like, is it though you're having experts like doctors and psychologists and people that are spiritual advisors and all these people setting you up with people that should be your perfect match, right? We're obviously shitty at picking them.
Yes.
The national divorce rate is 50%, orange County is 70%.
So it's we're not good at this. No. We should, our rights should be taken away. Yes. But yeah, you think about like India especially, India is just primarily arranged marriages and these people, it's, there's sure, there's no love when you get married, but these people learn to respect each other and then you learn love over time.
It's dealing with real shit instead of being like, I don't know, we met at a bar and hooked up that night. And it like, seems cool.
Yeah, no, we it's we forget like what real life is. There's no real life in a bar.
Yeah.
There just isn't. So who do you wanna spend time with for a super shitty situation?
Who, who do you wanna have to deal with? Taxes and all the stuff, all the adulting. That sucks.
It's not all things that are scary like dates. No. That's why it's so funny to me that Bachelor and Bachelorette, it's oh, wow, it didn't work. You've, your four dates have been like on a helicopter at a waterfall.
Yeah. Like in Paris at the Eiffel Tower, and then in one of those over the water, Hudson, Tahiti. And you're like, it's so weird. We got engaged and then shit didn't work. I'm like, yeah, because you went back to Des Moines. Yeah. And. You guys couldn't pick the right TV show to watch. Like it's when you go to normal life, I always said I wanted to be the bachelorette, but like my version of it would be like the rose ceremonies.
Like I'd be in sweats. Like yoga pants or whatever the competitions would be like, who could make me the best grilled cheese? Like we would just chill, watch tv. Who doesn't annoy the shit outta me? Who doesn't snore? Like those types of things. Let's talk about the real shit.
I think the best dating show could be naked and afraid.
Ugh. If it was set up that way. If it was a dating
show,
yes.
That those people are fucking brave. A for being in the jungle at all. But then naked.
Yes. And and for me, it's so funny, I'm like, what do I wish that I had if I was in this situation? Do I wish for underwear or shoes? I dunno. Ugh, shit.
Yeah. I think you'd have to go shoes. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I lived in Long Beach for six years and I had, I had convinced a bunch of my friends to move into all the apartments around me. So there were about 10 of us at one point, and some of their, some of them were strangers and then just became part of our friend group.
But pretty much every night we sat on our shared patio and drank wine and had conversations and for a while they were like, how was your day? Blah, blah, whatever. And then so I started just looking up online, like deep questions. Yes. And so then we would have these really deep conversations.
'cause I'm like, I've been friends with you guys for years and I don't really know shit about you. Yeah. And so that was a lot more fulfilling than you. And some of them are just so out there that it's like, people are like I don't know. I'm like, then fucking think of something. It's just because you haven't been presented with this question before and you don't have a stored answer, doesn't mean you can't answer it.
There's also something that I saw. There's like an article that's 36 questions to ask on a first date to fall in love or whatever. And I've always wanted to do that, but I also don't know how to present that in a way that's not so fucking stage five clinger on the first date. Hey I just wanted to ask you 36 questions real quick.
These are supposed to help us fall in love. So there's no way to present that in a normal way, but you can't do it on the fourth date. 'cause that's not the purpose. It's gotta be the first date. So I don't,
I think everyone gonna have to keep
trying
gone on a first date with would think that I'm a little bit in the, not in the clinging, but I definitely have my interviews.
Jesse still thinks I interview him. How
long have you guys been together?
Almost six years.
Okay. But like I just You are still interviewing it's trial period?
Yeah, it's still trial period. But no, for real it's no, I wanna know these things now. Yeah. 'cause I don't even know if I wanna go on a second date with you.
And can we just start with this list of questions?
I think that's the right way to do it. And people take rejection so personally too, it's like I have friends that. Get so butt hurt about a first date not working or not getting a second date. And I'm like, dude, dating is so particular. Yeah. Like there, there are guys that I've known that I'm like, I love everything about this person, but something they said about what they want in their future just doesn't align with mine.
There's nothing to take away from. That being awesome from them, like they're good looking. They have their shit together, all that stuff. I just know it won't work. Yeah. But for some reason, when rejection happens to us, we're like, what did I say? Oh my God. I came home and my hair was outta place.
Or I had something in my teeth. And it's this isn't how it works.
If you have something in your teeth and they don't tell you, they're automatically Yeah. Fucking scumbag out. What do you mean? I was just staring at your eyes the whole time. Yeah. Bullshit. You knew it was there and you thought it was funny.
Yeah. A big red flag for me is a lot of people get really excited about having butterflies about somebody. I, if I have nervous energy about somebody, or if I'm nervous on the date, that's a red flag, so I won't see that person again. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that they're a bad person, but their energy doesn't put me at ease.
And I don't like that. So there's been a lot of times where I'm like, on paper, this person is perfect for me, but I can't relax Yeah. When I'm with them. And that's just not gonna work. I totally get that because you want. Even friends. Yeah. Like I, if you make me nervous and uncomfortable and you're like, too much of a swirling tornado, like
yeah.
There's enough swirling tornadoes that will come into my life. Without me asking for it. I don't need more on a volunteer basis. Yeah,
exactly.
Because you meet, sometimes you meet people and you wanna put them in like a, you wanna tie them down or put them in like a straight jacket.
Like just stay
Yeah.
Like a, makes me think of a 2-year-old or a puppy. You're like, just stay, don't Yeah. People that
are especially hyper, I'm just like, oh, this is a lot. Like just being around you is very draining.
Yes. Yeah. And it's, I don't, and there's the hyper kind and then there's the people who like their whole life is drama.
Yes.
And you're like, wait a second, how did buying coffee this morning become. This never ending story?
It's 'cause I think a lot of it is people really wanna complain all the time. Yeah. Like I, I've made a very conscious effort to, I went to India in 2010 to do an egg donation and that was like my, the moment that it clicked for me because I was there and these people are the kindest people I've ever met in my entire life.
They have nothing and they're so happy. And I was like, there's nothing in my life that is worth complaining about. And so I just see people fall victim to their own. Bullshit in their head every day. And like it keeps them miserable, but it's, social media when i've talked about this on a different podcast, but like the Kardashians, they're posted all the time and you read through the comments and people are like, fuck this, I don't care about these bitches, blah, blah, blah, sex tape, this, blah, blah.
And I'm like, do you guys not understand how social media works? 'cause your comment, they don't look through the comments and see which ones are good or bad or the reactions. They just see engagement. So the more you engage with these things, the more they show up on your feed. Yeah. So it's just people putting themselves in a bad mood 'cause they're complaining about something.
It's if you don't like something, don't say, it sucks. 'cause it doesn't, 'cause a lot of people like this thing just say it's not for you. Yeah. Your life will be better. You're, you'll be a less insufferable person. People will wanna be around you. Yeah. Your opinion is not the end all be all. And everybody thinks their opinion is so important.
People hate Amy Schumer. She's not fucking funny. It's she is, she's famous and she's made a fuck ton of money from being funny, but. If she's not your type of comedy, that's fine. Yeah. And
people think she is, but why are
you so bad about it?
I don't know. I think it ties into what people think happiness is today.
Like it's gone so off the rails from two generations ago.
Yeah.
I don't know, like I think about a grandparents and they were just like, happy not to be in World War II anymore. Anything beyond that was like, cool. We have too much stuff now.
Yes. Like it really is the oversaturation of stimulation and things like, everybody thinks that everything needs to cater to them.
And it's like the, do you know how diverse the world is? Not everything will be for you.
Yeah.
And so it's just like this competition culture that you, this person has the next iPhone or whatever it is, and it's like the more stuff we have, more money, more problems. Pete did, he had it right.
No it's so true. And even, even dumb things like, 50 years ago what you needed to like have a foundation of life is so you didn't need a car. You didn't need a phone, you didn't need a computer, you didn't need internet. Like nowadays, if you're homeless, like we have to give you a cell phone that everyone taxpayers pay for just so you can make sure that you can get a job, which I support.
You can't expect people to find a job if they can't be reached. But it's it just, we keep leveling things up and forgetting about how does this change things and just the expectations we have statistically it'd be really weird if everyone was middle class.
Yeah.
What?
Like what? No, like people are gonna make bad choices. People are not gonna even if we gave people all the same cards, what's cool about humanity is that we choose different things. We're gonna combine things differently. So trying everyone to be equal and everyone to win and everyone's not gonna be rich.
It's
right.
It, I don't know how it's gonna happen. So I think there's a lot of conversations to be had about what does happiness mean and is it really happiness or is it contentness? I dunno if that's the right word, grammatically, but are you just content? Are things okay and is okay, really an amazing level that we don't give a credit for?
Yeah. I don't think there's any chance that everybody lives an amazing life, but I think everybody should have the basic necessities to live in a safe place. And with a roof over their head and food. And if that's at the, the sacrifice of some billionaires losing a yacht or two, like so be it. And nobody needs to be as rich as the richest people in our country. That, I was watching this video on Twitter yesterday, and it was this girl, it was like on TikTok, which I'm too old to really understand what that is, but she looked up Bill Gates net worth, and then there's a website called, or the concept of it is basically what can Bill Gates buy? And so she bought, she went through the simulation and bought every single NFL team and then a couple of yachts, a couple of plane planes, all of these things. And it's like just the difference in his net worth as she bought these things, it was like so minimal.
And it's because you never really think I think he's like worth what, $10.3 billion or maybe a hundred, I can't remember. Yeah. What the actual number was. But you, it's hard to conceptualize how much money that is. Yeah. Until you start seeing her buying shit. It's like he could own the NFL and still have 10 point something billion dollars and you're like, fuck,
why is he?
Yeah. And he's one of the good ones. Yeah. Like he Exactly.
And he is very charitable and all that stuff. His net worth is 105. That's the 0.8 billion. I couldn't remember if it was 10.3 or 103 or whatever it was. Yeah, if just an insane amount of money. And she bought every single thing on that fake grid.
And 32 NFL teams. And he still had billions of dollars. Hundred billion dollars to go. Yeah. Yeah. No it's, I just need one of those. You don't even 1
billion, you don't even need a billion. I'd like it though. So if he listens to this, you can Venmo me at Kelly Blackheart. Imagine that Venmo.
I
was just
thinking, could
Venmo handle that?
Bill Gates just sent you $1 billion. I'm like, ah, I love you. Bill.
What are other things that matter to you that are topics in the world today?
A lot of what I do is trying to get people to recognize that kindness is very important. I think with kindness we solve a lot of issues.
People make a lot of assumptions about who other people are. I was actually something you were saying earlier reminded me of something and now I can't remember what it was. I'm sure it'll come back to me as soon as I leave here. But I think just making assumptions about how anybody lives or the experiences that they've had just puts us in a really bad spot.
You just don't know what anybody's gone through in their life. So right now, we talk about body shaming a lot, and Bill Maher and James Cord just had their thing and it's I understand the perspective of Hey, if somebody's addicted to food, let's treat it like an addiction and blah, blah, blah.
But also, let's not shame anybody, but how many people are overweight because of health issues? I was an egg donor for a long time. I gained a hundred pounds in a year because one of 'em destroyed seven of my organs. What? And so it's like those, that's situation like, gave me so much empathy and compassion for people that deal with health issues that are invisible to us.
Because everybody just wants to assume, like I, I was looked at so differently 'cause it's oh, you're lazy now. And I'm like no, I'm not. I still play volleyball four days a week and I eat the same exact way. My organs just don't work. How, what happened? So it was the last one I did, it was like six or seven years ago, and I had already taken 10 days of the hormones.
And then the couple decided to get a divorce. Ooh. I think they were doing like, let's have a kid as a bandaid for their issues and then realized this is not a good idea. Yeah. When that happens, they don't like wean you off the medications or do a surgery. They just go, okay, thanks. Here's your $500 cancellation fee.
And at the time I didn't know that would be a bad thing, but apparently just having the hormones sitting in your body is not good. So I. Was continually gaining weight, couldn't really figure it out. 'cause I was playing really competitive volleyball. I was playing an all ex pro and college level team. Didn't change anything about the way I ate. I was eating chicken and broccoli for every fucking meal and gaining three pounds a week. And I'm like, this is not
right.
Normal. So over the course of a few years, I kept going to doctors, going I don't know what's going on.
And they're like,
you need to lose weight.
I'm like, no shit. Sherlock. That's why I'm here. I am not a doctor. I don't know what's going on. And it wasn't until I found this girl who's like a holistic nutritionist. And she does something called nutrition response testing, which is ba like very woo saw. Yeah. Like when I explain it, it sounds like you're the dumbest person ever for spending money on that.
But basically it's like she'll test you the strength of your arm while she's pushing on your organs and the way your arm responds to it shows her the strength or weakness of that organ. And so when I first went to her, she like identified seven organs that didn't work. And I was dating a guy at the time, and he's so you took a blood test?
And I was like, no. And he's Kelly, this is bullshit. But I was totally doing supplementation with her and all that stuff, and it was working and I was starting to lose weight. And then he like, really got in my head about it. And so I was like, all right, what if I am spending like hundreds of dollars a month on something?
So I stopped going to her and then six months later I went to this other place that ended up doing blood work. And every single organ
was ver it was totally verified what she said. Yeah. Totally
verified. And I'm motherfucker, if I had been doing this for the last six months, I'd be in a lot better spot now.
So yeah, I found that out. But then I started doing keto like a year and a half ago. And that's like specifically designed to help regulate hormones and all that stuff. And that's what it was. It's my hormones were so outta whack that my organs couldn't function. So I lost 65 pounds.
So I'm still working on it, but I also like to live my life so I will Yeah. Cheat when I want to. And I don't think there's anything good about me being strict because I'm not trying to, when I get there, but ketos been great, but I really, it's crazy to me because people think that western medicine is the end all, be all like,
oh yeah,
take the drugs, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, I try not to take any painkillers because I will build up the tolerance to it. I don't I don't want to need, or. Yeah, I don't want to need anything.
I'm in the same boat. If I have a headache, I'm like, I'll use more water deal. I'll go take a nap, it'll be fine. Start drinking again.
Yeah. There's the I'm a big believer in naturopaths and people who look at your whole body, right? It's all connected. I don't wanna just take a drug and have the symptom go away. It's just gonna get worse. We're not dealing with the source.
Yeah. For the most part, men don't understand hormones at all.
I was listening to a conversation two weeks ago about how postpartum depression's like a made up thing and it's no, you it. And he's yeah, I get it. You're sad 'cause your body's not fact. I'm like no. Oh my god, no. My brain's gonna explode right now. Like it's hormones are so very real and yeah.
And to varying degrees for different women. I don't go through mood swings, but I know that a lot of people do. And it's just 'cause it's not, my experience doesn't mean that it's not real. Yeah. And I feel like that's like the tagline for America is people are like, I don't understand that, so it's wrong.
I 100% agree a hundred. No, it's, and people, you're, things change over time. Like I am lactose intolerant. I wasn't for the first 25 years of my life, so I am now does it mean I'll always be, I have no idea. I was just eating a bunch of cheese in Europe and I was fine.
Yeah. And that's a lot to do with our food quality here too.
It's I'm not, I'm actually don't really like Italian food and I know that makes me very weird. But I went to Italy in 2016. What I don't like about it is when I eat it here, it makes me feel disgusting. And heavy and bloated and gross. But like there, it's the ingredients are so fresh.
The wine has no nitrites in it. And like you don't have a hangover. You're eat drinking three bottles of wine and you feel fucking spritely the next day, like not here. So it's just the quality of the food that we put in our body. And that's the thing with keto too, is I didn't notice feeling better as I started it.
But now I notice if I go back to eating shitty stuff Yeah. My joints lock up. I'm so tired, I get headaches, my migraines like i'm irritable. And so it's weird how you don't really notice the positive changes until you go back to eating something and then see the negative things and you're holy shit.
That's how I was living. The entire time.
Yeah. And you don't know. And I think that's true about. We don't realize the little bubble we've made around ourselves from a food perspective sleep. Are we hydrated? Plus all the noise. Like we don't realize how much we're comparing ourselves.
We don't realize how much we're keeping up with the Jones. Even we don't think we are. We don't realize how much we're trying to chase something that we never cho decided we wanted. And so that's why I think travel is so important. That's why I think getting perspective is so important. Your India trip, you mentioned being really impactful.
Like what made you go in the first place and how did it change? Who you are today?
So I went to do an egg donation, so it was a Canadian couple, but medical tourism is much cheaper. And at first my agency had reached out to me and they were like, Hey, would you do one in India or Columbia?
And I was like no, I don't wanna go to either of those places. And then as I thought about it, I'm like, I would go to India. Like I. And now actually I would go to Columbia, but at the time I was just like, it didn't feel like they were safe. So I went there for, I was there for 17 days and it was just.
It was so interesting to see a, we were celebrities there. It's crazy to me that the light skin is like they, every single group of people needed to stop and take a picture with us. Granted, I brought my friend Joe from college and he looks a lot like one of their celebrities, RI Rashan. And so we stayed at this resort that had one of those manmade surfing machine things.
And so he would do that every day and every receipts had rhythmic on it. And I'm like, I wonder if they really think it's him, but like we went to the zoo and we're standing next to the white tiger exhibit and people are taking pictures with us. I'm like, there's a white tiger right there. And they're like, white people.
And I'm like, okay. So it was very interesting, but just the nicest people ever. And there's this stereotype here because I used to work in sales and so the stereotype is I would work with these people and I'm like, I hate when I go to an Indian person's house. I'm like, why?
They're like, they're so cold and they're mean and all that stuff. I'm like, I think they're just. Used to white people treating them like shit. They've got a wall up. It's it's hard to be kind to everyone when you're used to people making jokes about you working at the seven 11 or whatever the fuck it is.
It's we've been so mean to them that of course they're rude. But that was not my experience at all in the slightest. They are very like stone faced at first. So the first couple days we were there, we were like walking past groups of people and they're just like, no smiles, nothing.
And I was like, I felt so uncomfortable. I was like, oh my God, they hate us. And then Joe is just I'm just gonna wave to him, see what happens. He waves and it's just immediately they light up, they start chattering, they're giggling. They're like, oh my God. Hi. So it's it was weird. They just needed to be approached in a kind way first.
But the best people I've ever met in my life, yeah. It's understandable for people to be suspicious. Especially if you've read like germs, guns, and steel. It's a great book about civilizations and why when there were all these very strong. Smart, like big civilizations.
Why did Europeans conquer the world?
Yeah.
Like why didn't Native Americans or Aztecs kick their ass? 'cause they could have,
right.
And so it all comes down to germs, guns, and steel and how they happened in different timing and the way that they were used. But it's fascinating. It's one of my favorite books.
The guy who writes it has done some other amazing books as well. He's actually a teacher at UCLA. Like I'm obsessed with all cultural anthropology stuff. But it's really interesting to see how that goes. You, if you're not white, you should be nervous if white people show up.
'Cause history would tell you like, oh shit. Totally. Yeah. I'm nervous when white people show up. I it is very sad that I've gotten to a point where part of the reason I wanna stay in my apartment is because I'm less likely to die in a mass shooting. It's like now I get. And I don't suffer from anxiety on a regular level.
But I won't go to see a movie on opening weekend. Not in the crowded theater. And there's just certain places that I will not, I'm not going to the LA County Fair. I'm not going to Coachella. Granted, I wouldn't have gone anyway. But there's certain things that I'm just like, no, I'm not going there.
I don't wanna be around that many people. And people today make me nervous as hell. And it's really sad that we have to live that way, but it's just reality.
It's sad. And it occurs to me, and I may be so off base, but it occurs to me that it, the solutions are really simple human things.
Like being kind. Talking to people, like having community, having people like have people that they can talk to. I'm sure I haven't done a study on this, so I'm I'll, we're gonna have somebody on who can talk to these statistics, but my guess is that the number of people in everyone's life that you had, that you could reliably call.
Or talk to regularly or see in person regularly. Used to be maybe 20 people. 10 people. And I bet now it's like one to three.
Yeah. That would make sense.
So like how does that, what does that do to society? And how does that change, like I was at a women's like networking group recently where a woman said, I'm gonna ask a question and don't get mad at me for it.
And I was like, Ooh, this is good. Yeah. And she's I'm a single working career woman. I'm not married, I don't have kids, I don't wanna get married, I don't wanna have kids. And I think the fact that all women now work has messed up our society. And I was like, Ooh, this is gonna be good. And it like, okay.
Like what? We haven't, should women have the right to work? Yes. Should men, yes. Should, okay. Maybe we weren't responsible as a society for what changes that makes. And how do we make sure the foundations that someone's staying at home left That okay, that's not gonna happen anymore.
What's gonna be missing that we need to put in place? I don't, I think where it shows up a lot is like in schools. Like we weren't responsible for all parents working, at least one job, if not two or more. But we also didn't prepare the schools for having to pick up some of that slack.
Yeah. We're not
hiring more teachers, we're not having more afterschool programs. Like we really were like, didn't think that went through. And okay, you can't think everything through, but. Somebody maybe should have been like, cool, what's gonna happen to these kids now?
Yeah, no, I, there are so many.
My, my cousin Trista just got her first teaching job and she she was comparing between two schools that she really wanted to work at and one was very close to her home and it in a ritzier neighborhood and all that stuff. But the other one that she really wanted is I'd be in this underprivileged community.
She was a Spanish minor, so she would be able to use that. And I'm like, please go to the other school. Yeah. Like you'll get paid a little bit less. But like people, kids need teachers that really wanna be there and really care about them. Because a lot of these kids, parents are working multiple jobs.
They just don't have the support at home. So to come to school and have somebody who's really passionate about them and their their upbringing and their lives and stuff like that you're gonna be a huge part of their lives. And she's there and she's loving it and so I'm really happy for her, but it.
Teachers don't get paid enough. So how do you get people to go in there and be happy and passionate and all of these things? Yeah. It's I just don't know how anybody is a teacher.
And it's, I just did the intro outros for another one where we talk about like how teachers are one of the most important people in our totally lives Yeah.
And in our community. I look to places like Finland where it's as competitive as being a doctor. Wow. Because they know that they need the best people in 10% of people that go to school become a teacher. And then I look at places like Sweden, where like daycare, like preschool's free and school is free, and maternity, paternity leave is equal among, among men and women. And there's even care for EL elderly that's provided for free. So you look at people at societies that have been really responsible, that people need support all the way through, and they need people that they can talk to and count on. Like, how many people does a person need in their life to thrive?
And who are those people? I don't know, but I think some places are getting it better than we are.
Totally. And I think that I think that. Is evidenced by the happiness of those countries too. It's I think what's happening here is people don't want, like people that are against social programs and all that stuff, they want to be recognized for the struggles that they've been through and the idea of somebody getting.
Help that they didn't have is upsetting to them. It's like kind of the concept of, when you're in high school and on a sports team, it's like you get hazed and hazings terrible and nobody likes that, but the second you're a sophomore, you're like, we're fucking hazing these people. And it's like this idea of passing down these terrible struggles things to people.
Yeah. Like I luckily, so I had a full scholarship to college, so I didn't have any student loans, but I've seen so many tweets of people being like I already paid my student loans, so I'm not into this loan forgiveness. I'm like, so you want somebody else to struggle just because you did? Is it not just a learning moment for you and you've been through this thing and you could be proud of yourself?
Why does everybody have to struggle? Because you did. And it's just this comparison of struggles and you get people that are like, I don't have white privilege. My fa like, my upbringing wasn't easy. And it's that's not what we're saying. It doesn't mean your life was easy.
Yeah. You did start ahead. But we recognize that you've been through some shit. That's fine. Yeah. I think people just wanna be recognized that they didn't have things handed to them on a silver platter. And it's we get that most people didn't have a really easy life. So it's this comparison culture of either my life was shittier than yours, or my life is better than yours. There's nothing in the middle. Nobody's just yeah. We're all just figuring it out. Yeah. Like we can admit that we're all figuring it out.
Yes, totally. And I think too, like whether you, either you've dealt with shit that you've, that you didn't want or you've worked your ass off to get what you wanted.
There's still the struggle doesn't need to be a trauma. Totally. There's struggles up the mountain. 'cause you started at the bottom and wanted to go to the top. And there's struggles where you got knocked backwards. And. Everyone's life is going to have these pieces.
'cause that's why we call it the hero's journey, right? You're here to go through your things. And I don't know, I just, it why are we such like butt heads? Why?
Seriously. Yeah. It's weird how people wanna hide the hard parts of their life. Because to me, that makes the person the most interesting.
That's what makes you powerful.
Yeah.
You can't be powerful if you've never had to overcome something.
And you don't know really anything if you haven't. That's every single moment that we fail, we learn something from that. It's there's this quote I just saw the other day, and it was from some inventor.
Some, probably some no name probably Einstein or something. It was something like I didn't fail 200 times. I figured out 199 ways that it didn't work. And it's that's so true. It's like we're, there's never gonna be a life that's smooth sailing and you don't get rejected a billion times.
Yeah. And that's something I'm really trying to hammer into my head because my, I, my ideal career is to be a writer. I'm gonna have a lot of scripts that get shut down. Yeah. But you're that much closer to something that gets a yes. And also success doesn't really feel good if you've always had success.
No. It's you just like you don't get confidence if you don't. Overcome something. You don't feel success if you haven't had to work for it. If the things that just show up, we don't even acknowledge as wins.
Totally. I was a swimmer growing up and I always swam in like the higher levels and I think when I was six I was swimming the eight and unders, and it was the first time I'd ever gotten second.
And at those summer swim meets, you got the ribbons there. So this lady hands me a red ribbon and I go, oh no, excuse me. I get the blues. I was such a little asshole because I was just so used to getting first place. I was just like, oh, this dumb ass screwed up the ribbons. But like it was then that I was like, oh, you're not gonna win everything.
Yeah. And so then I just kept failing,
I still have my swim meet ribbons. I didn't have a lot of blues. I've got a lot of other colors.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Hey, diversity.
Diversity looks real pretty. It was like very pastelly.
Yeah. They started making like rainbow colors at one point, and I was like, it was like eighth place. They're like, Hey, at least you still get a rainbow. Yeah.
We ask everybody on the podcast like, where do you put yourself on the powerful 80 scale? This is a scale that I've completely made up and pulled out of my ass. And it's roughly zero is normal, average, everyday human, and 10 is like super mega, powerful lady.
Like whatever that means to you. So like where do you put yourself on average and where do you feel right now?
Oh man. I think everybody feels that in a different way. I think I walked in here and I was like, I'm not qualified to be on this podcast. Because it's not like I've started a business or anything like that, but I do I have a lot of confidence in myself.
I actually think gaining weight made me a lot more confident because I had to become a smarter, funnier, more interesting version of myself. So it's one of the best things that ever happened to me, even though it was terrible at the time. So I feel very in my power all the time, but I would say probably a six or a seven.
And I love asking this question 'cause everyone answers it so differently. And it speaks to like. How that individual person works. Like we've had a super successful professional athlete be like, I'm a two. And I'm like, what? Oh yeah. If I'm a two, that means I'm working towards i've got 10 things to move up in, but that's how she operates. And I'm like, shit, okay. Like I get that. And yeah, there've been so many people that I've asked to host an event for powerful ladies or be part of it, or come on and they've said no because they're like, I'm not powerful. And then you look at their resume, you look at their life or like what they care about and that they're just good citizens.
And I'm like, you are like, how do we change this definition?
But don't you think that's so telling of what society is? Because we're not supposed to admit that we're powerful. We're not supposed to admit that we're smart. It's it because it's seen as cocky and Yeah. Instead of confident the way a guy would, a guy could be like, I'm a really powerful businessman, but if a woman says that, yeah.
It's okay, bitch, slow down. Yeah. So it's just weird how society has trained us. To be demure and to not talk about our accomplishments and all that stuff. Like I, I dated a guy that after we had broken up, he, I called myself smart in jest. It was about something stupid. Yeah. And he's like, how are you gonna ever have fans if you're your own biggest fan?
I'm like, why the fuck would I not be my own biggest fan? What? He's you need to get some humility. And I'm like, because I said I'm smart about something very stupid. Okay, I think you need to fucking kick rocks.
And how about you should think I'm the smartest person you've ever met, and that's why we're not together anymore.
Yeah. And that's why we're not, yeah.
No. At the most recent Powerful Ladies event I was at, a woman came up to me and she's I really think you should change the name. And I'm like okay. Why? Powerful is a really aggressive word and you should use a different word. Awesome or incredible or, and I was like.
Knowing in my head like, this is more about you than it does what we're up to. But like when I think about powerful, like to me it's like why is Wonder Woman powerful? 'cause she can make things happen. Like being powerful is like seeing the light you have and that people need your light and what are you doing to give it away?
Yeah.
Like you were talking earlier about how you didn't use this word, but like how powerful you feel when you're working with Jim and like having these great conversations and like people are laughing and stuff's happening. That's powerful. There are people who are sitting at home binge watching Netflix that don't.
Think they contribute at all and or are working their job and they're just like pushing buttons. And some people love that. And that's their thing. 'cause they like love buttons. Fine. Go for it. And there are other people, like you mentioned earlier, who are just like in on the conveyor belt, and the fact that you've gotten off, you've made these choices like you, are taking things on. Like to me that's powerful. Our tagline is the awesome and the up to something. Like you're up to something.
Yeah.
And I just love having people check in are you up to something you care about?
Are you up to something that you're proud of? And sometimes the yes, sometimes it's no. There are moments when I look at myself and I'm like, you are not playing the game. You could, yeah. I know I'm slacking off.
Oh, I do that all the time.
But you ask somebody else and they're like. You need to calm down like you're doing.
You're doing too much. You're making us look bad.
Yeah.
And I'm like, what? You don't even know the list I have hold on. So it's like all this perspective game. I did this example with money at the, at a workshop where somebody said they needed $25,000. And I'm like, you think that's a lot? She's yes.
And I literally walked across the room and I'm like, over here is Bill Gates. He sneezed and $25,000 came out of his nose. No problem. I walk on this side where in India they live on 50 cents a day. There'll be millionaires in their mind that they have this. All you have to do is change where you're looking at it from.
You move and it changes. And it's the same thing. Anything that we can't hold onto is the same way Feelings love. Like when I got that love is a story, I was like, shit that sucks. And that's actually powerful 'cause then so is everything else.
Yeah.
So it's like a really weird dynamic when you realize that.
It's like being a, like a, not a mind bender. What's that game? The space that we can bend time. If you could, if you realize that you're in control of these intangible things right now, you can change. How is it big or small? I don't know. I'm gonna decide today. Yeah.
Knowledge is certainly power and to me, I feel like sometimes I know too much and that's what fuels my depression.
Like ignorance truly is bliss. And maybe that's what we're talking about with these people that are just working the mundane jobs or whatever. It's, they, it could, it's because it's all they know. Yeah. That they could genuinely be happy. I think I just know too much to be stuck in that.
And it sound, that sounds very conceited, but there, there is. So many studies linked to a high IQ and depression, and I not, I don't think I have the highest iq, but just being smart, you're like, no, I'm fucking sad because I'm looking at all this shit that's going on around me and this is really sad.
It can be overwhelming. Yeah. Because when you know it's happening, you also know that you can do something about it.
Yes.
That's
what it is I can and should be doing something about this, but I don't know where to start. And I don't know that I have the resources to make a difference.
Yeah.
And
how do you choose, right? Am I gonna go save babies in Africa? Am I gonna save glaciers from melting? Am I gonna go? And if you choose one,
people will go what about the peep? And it's I can care about all these things at once. I can only do one thing at once.
Yeah.
And it makes me feel good that other people are. Picking one. And going for it because I'm like, okay, if I give each of you $5, like I will, we'll start spreading out all of the resources, and then I can pick whichever one is easiest for me. And sometimes the best thing you can do is make people laugh.
And that's awesome. I don't, I just, we were so hard on ourselves for making this big, huge impact. When it's I don't know was I nice to somebody today? Did I make you smile? Totally, yeah. Did, did I compliment everyone that I thought something nice about, even if I didn't know them?
That's a fun game I think, to play. You hear these things in your head like, oh, that's a great haircut, that's a great bag. Whatever it is that you're liking about whoever you're staring at. And to tell someone and they go oh,
thank you. Yeah, that's powerful. But we just we're trained to keep everything so close to the chest.
And I'm guilty of that. I don't give a whole lot of compliments, but I also feel like people know that if I give you a compliment, I really mean it. But I do those girls in bathroom bars that are like, oh my God, I love your outfit. I'm like, I love you. Yeah. Why are we best friends already?
It's nice. Yeah. So to live a day like one of those girls, it would probably feel pretty good.
There is a game when we were just playing, I need to find it where it's these tiny cards and it's just choose, it's would you? It's called Would You Rather? Oh,
okay.
I didn't realize it could be a card game, but my friend found it.
It's not the Would you Rather that I've always played without cards? Yeah, we
played that on my podcast.
So this one's more they's interesting. They're gross and it'd be things like, would you rather have a three second memory or would you rather know everything?
Wait, what was the question again?
I'm just kidding.
No
I sometimes feel like I have a three second memory anyway, so
I'm like if you had a three second memory, this is how nerdy I got. I'm like, you would probably not be able to take care of yourself.
Yeah.
Which actually could be, which either would mean that people would do everything for you or you would die early.
Like those would be your two options. 'cause in three seconds you would forget like where you found food. Yeah. I wouldn't be
able to pick that one because I'm. I'm so worried about being like self-sufficient and not being a burden on anyone else that I know that I would annoy the shit outta people and that would make me depressed.
So I might as well know everything seconds and be depressed anyway. Yeah.
That's who you're gonna find a way to be depressed in two seconds of memory. Oh yeah. Wait, what? Oh,
sad. Okay. They said something. Oh, now I'm sad. Oh, they said something. Oh no, I'm sad again. It's fucking Dory from Finding Nemo. Yeah.
Listen, I can find a way to be depressed in any situation. Don't you worry. That's one of my skills.
Knowing your superhero skills is step one, right? So we're almost complete for today. What are some last words you'd like to leave with the powerful ladies audience?
Ooh I. I guess on the the train of complaining or being down about things that you can't really control.
I live by the if this won't matter to me in five years, then don't give it more than five minutes right now. There's so much stuff that like, especially when you feel like you got your heart broken or something like that, it's like you dwell on this thing and I literally could not tell you the names of some of the guys that I've been upset about over the years.
I'm like, I remember being really upset and crying about somebody could not tell you his name. So I tried just not to give anything too much weight. I feel feelings when I need to, but I don't give anything a whole lot of power.
Great. Thank you so much for coming on Powerful Ladies podcast.
Thanks for having me.
I am excited to have more conversations with you 'cause I think this was great and I, building the powerful universe is half the fun.
Sweet.
Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah,
this was a great episode to record. It's so much fun to meet a stranger and know you wanna keep them in your life. She's strong, smart, funny, and she cares. I love that she shared the hilarious and the ridiculous, as well as being super honest about depression and the pressure we all face to chase happiness, because that's what life really is.
It's hard, it's messy. It's funny, it's, real. I'm so thankful Travis connected us, and I can't wait to see what she creates. Next to Connect, support and follow Kelly, you can follow her on Instagram at Kelly Blackheart, Twitter at Kelly Blackheart, and of course, subscribe and listen to the unsolicited podcast.
If you'd like to support the work that we're doing here at Powerful Ladies, there's a couple of ways you can do that. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, Google Play, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Leave a review on any of these platforms. Share the show with all the powerful ladies and gentlemen in your life.
Join our Patreon account. Check out the website, the powerful ladies.com. To hear more inspiring stories. Get practical tools to be your most powerful. Get 50% off your first order in The Powerful Ladies Shop, or donate to the Powerful Ladies one Day of Giving campaign. And of course, follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies for show notes and to get the links to the books.
Podcasts and people we talk about. Go to the powerful ladies.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. She's one of the first female audio engineers in the podcasting world, if not the first. And she also happens to be the best. We're very lucky to have her. She's a powerful lady in her own right, in addition to taking over the podcasting world.
She's a singer songwriter working on our next album, and she's one of my sisters. So it's amazing to be creating this with her, and I'm so thankful that she finds time in her crazy busy schedule to make this happen. It's a testament to her belief in what we're creating through powerful Ladies, and I'm honored that she shares my vision.
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.

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