Episode 94: Breaking the Rules to Achieve Your Best | Caroline Hanley | Account Director, Avid Reader, Semi-Retired Dancer
Caroline Hanley is a ray of sunshine, fun, smart, and endlessly curious. As an Account Director at the prestigious advertising firm Mullen Lowe, she’s built a career on creativity, strategic thinking, and following her own path. Outside of work, she’s an avid reader, a semi-retired dancer, and a champion for the arts. Caroline shares how her love of books, the arts, and curiosity have shaped her personal and professional journey. We talk about why arts education matters, how advertising can influence culture, and why you don’t have to follow a set path to succeed. Caroline’s story is a reminder that breaking so-called rules and carving your own path can lead to your version of success.
“You don’t have to follow provided rules or steps. If you know where you want to go there are so many opportunities & avenues you can take to get there.”
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Mullen Lowe
Southern California Dance Theater
Lakewood
Nate Hodges
Rhetorical Dance Company
La Bayadere
Irvine
YogaZama - psychotherapeutic yoga teacher training
Babysitters Club
Nancy Drew
Cheryl Whilby
Soul Fire Farm
Jane Austin
Downton Abby
Reebok
A Gentleman in Moscow
A Man Called Ove
Educated
Where the Crawdads Sing
Brene Brown
Dare to Lead -
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Meet Caroline Hanley
03:20 Growing Up Surrounded by the Arts
07:40 From Ballet to Semi-Retired Dancer
12:10 Discovering a Passion for Advertising
16:45 Lessons from Mullen Lowe and Working with Top Brands
21:00 Why Arts Education Matters
25:15 How Reading Shapes Creativity and Strategy
30:10 Finding Inspiration in Literature and Dance
34:25 The Power of Curiosity in Career and Life
38:40 Breaking Rules to Create Your Own Path
43:00 Advice for Building a Career You Love
47:20 Favorite Books and Recommendations
51:15 Staying Creative Outside of Work
55:00 How to Connect with Caroline Hanley
I generally follow rules and I follow steps. And so I was giving them the answer like, well, in order to move up and be promoted, I must complete X, Y, and Z. Mm-hmm. So my goals are X, Y, and Z, and they were helping me see that you don't always have to follow the exact steps to get where you want to go.
That's Caroline Hanley and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something, and the extraordinary to come and share their story. I hope that you'll be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Caroline is a ray of sunshine. She's smart, funny, loves reading as much as I do, and is one of my dear friends. In addition to being a great human, she's an incredible account director at one of the most prestigious advertising firms, Mullin Lo. In this episode, we talk about the power of curiosity, why arts in school matter, and how breaking the so-called rules can lead you to finding the path to discover how to be the best at your own life and business, all that, and so much more coming up.
But first, being an entrepreneur or a small business owner is hard, but the good news is it's much easier when you have a coach and a community. The powerful Ladies online community gives you both. It's where powerful ladies and powerful entrepreneurs from around the world discover clarity, produce results, and experience success at new levels.
Because together we thrive as a member, you get access to master a new skill for business. Every month, network, brainstorm and collaborate with like-minded women. Get access to powerfully events are library resources and more. Participate in group coaching and workshops led by a multi entrepreneur business coach, and you get the accountability and inspiration to stay on track and make it happen.
Join today@thepowerfulladies.com.
Hi. Hello. It is so nice to see your face. It's so great. I feel like it's been a long time, but then time is really difficult to keep track of nowadays. I'd say it's been a really long time. I, I honestly can't remember the last time that I saw you in person. It may have been at the gym. Yeah, like a year ago though.
Like I feel like it's been so long. Was it when we were mermaids? I think so. That was over a year ago. Yeah. It'll be a year in like April. Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. I know. That's crazy. Well, and since then, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You just got engaged. Yes. Thank you very much. Um, very excited. Something good from this year.
Yeah, it was great. Um, Brie told me, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Um, and how long had you guys been dating? 13 years. So we were set up, um, our high school senior prom. Um, and we've been together since then, so That's incredible. Quite a long time. Yes. Um, well let's get into telling everybody, um, who you are and what you're up to.
Um, alright. Well I am Caroline Hanley. Um, I am a fiance, a sister, um, an avid reader and book on tape listener. Um, a beginning baker. A, um, fitness enthusiast, a semi-retired dancer. Um, and I work as an account director at Mullen Low, um, which is an advertising agency in la. I love it. Yes. And you're just also one of my favorite humans on the planet, so I'm very glad that you're here today.
We've been trying to make this episode happen for so long. I've been like, you gotta be on, you gotta be on. Yes. I'm so glad that it's working out. Yes, me too. Um, well let's dive into you and dance because, um, I've met you through Brie. Mm-hmm. And you and Bree met through dancing. Um, what has your dance career been like and how did you get started?
Oh my gosh. I feel like it's too much to actually call it a career. Um, but I appreciate that that's what you are saying. Um, I started probably like a dozen other little girls in ballet class when I was three. Mm-hmm. Um, probably because my parents needed somewhere to put me. Um, but my parents are also very, uh, artsy people and so I was in music classes.
I was in movement classes, dance classes, um, from an early age. And so I did the, the Nutcracker with, um, Southern California Dance Theater. Um, was the small studio close by. And my younger sister, Marielle, who's three years younger than I am, she was also part of it. Um, my parents were part of it, which was really awesome.
My, uh, my dad was Jos Meyer in the Nutcracker for a number of years. Um, and I, I. Love performing and dressing up. Um, so putting all those things together and being on stage where people are clapping and loving it is like just fantastic. Um, and then we moved and so we stopped going to that ballet class.
Um, and instead my mom put actually my sister first in a hip hop class through the city of Lakewood, um, here in southern California because my sister was much aner than I was. I was very like, focused and, and could listen and take direction and my sister could not at that age. She can now. Um, and, um, she had so much fun because it's, it's, um.
Bouncier, brighter, happier, more energetic movement, um, and music. And because my sister was into it, then I got into it. Um, and we did that for a number of years, basically up through middle school. So I abandoned ballet and was just doing hip hop, which is not like actual, like street cred, hip hop, like real stuff.
It was really a lot of. Bouncing around a lot of cardio exercise, but still movement to music, which was fun.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then in high school I had to choose whether or not I wanted to do PE class or to join the dance program. And obviously I wanted to join the dance program instead of doing pe. Um, and that is really where I fell in love with it.
Um, I had no idea what I was doing, um, but I took the summer camps that the teacher taught, um, Mrs. Jones at Los Alamitos, um, high school that she offered. And I think really from there, that's when I fell in love with. With the technique and trying to be better. Um, and I was in that program all four years.
I was on the dance team, um, as a sophomore through senior year. And it's just so much fun, um, because you're listening to, you're listening to like great music and you're moving around. Um, and it, there's this really great cathartic feeling for me where it really feels like you can become another person.
Um, when you're dancing, you, you forget about who is sitting in the room in front of you and you're just focused on moving and making that movement feel as great as possible. Um, so after high school, I went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, um, for school and joined the dance company there, um, and took classes in addition to that.
And that was very, very different. Um, I feel like in, uh, in high school it was all about jazz and lyrical and moving. Energetically, you know, we're high schoolers, so we have endless amounts of energy and we don't get injured very easily. Um, and then in college, it's all about learning how to preserve your body and move smarter and really warm up.
And those were things that I really like mentally and physically was not ready to do when I was 18. I wanted to keep moving. Um, and now looking back, I wish I had done that more. But, um, at, at the time I just wanted to keep moving more and keep pushing. And that wasn't the mentality of that particular dance company.
Um, but I still, still was dancing, still surrounded by a very talented people. Got to meet some great friends. Um, but I would come home over the summer breaks, um, and take, uh, classes at, uh, Jimmy Defore Dance Studio in Costa Mesa. And that's where, again, from my sister, she had been taking class from Nate Hodges.
Who was teaching there and at Elevation, uh, dance Studios in Long Beach. And so I was taking class with her because I'm just home for the summer and I'm gonna do something with my sister. And he took Nate's class and he's fantastic. Um, for anyone who's listening who doesn't know Nate Hodges, just imagine the happiest, brightest soul and then give him a really macabre, um, and dark kind of, uh, interest level.
And that's Nate. Um, but he's so wonderful and, um. When I was, I was taking his class kind of back and forth over the summers. And as I was getting ready to graduate, he, um, he asked me to be part of his dance company, rhetorical. Um, and I just remember I was so over the moon. I got, it was a Facebook message that he had sent me.
It, I was up in college, um, at the time and my roommate was with me and I got the message and I started reading it and kind of got down to the point where he was asking, you know, will you be in my dance company? That sounded just like a proposal. That's not actually what the wording was, but, um, I like, could, I had to stop reading and make her read it because I was so excited.
Um, and so I, uh, I joined the, uh, rhetorical dance company. I started at the very end of 2010, uh, when I moved home after, uh, after graduating. And that's right when they had started, um, a new production of Levi Dare. And it was a, a jazz retake on the classical ballet. And it, it was phenomenal. Um, it was the most complex and, um, yeah, most complex, in depth, talented group of people ever.
Um, and being surrounded by so many great and talented dancers just makes you want to be as good as they are, or at least not be the bad person in the back. Um, and that's, that's kind of, um, how I was. Mm-hmm. And that's how I got really close to, to Bri, um, and to Nate and a whole bunch of other people in the company.
'cause they're, they're just a family. It was wonderful. Um, yeah. And having been someone who's had the pleasure of watching you guys perform. It's a different level of performance. Like it's, you can tell that you guys have a different relationship than people forced to work together. Mm-hmm. Or people who, um, don't have a relationship.
Like there's such a, a, a depth and an easiness to how you guys dance together, that it changes how it occurs as a performance. Mm-hmm. And it's so noticeable. Yeah. Oh, that's so great to hear. Yeah. I think that, um, there's a maturity that comes with dancing like that, um, where you're really dancing with the people as people, you know, they're not just another body on stage with you, you know, if you're partnering with someone that, that is Jeremy, um, you know, or that is Brie that you have to catch.
Mm-hmm. And that really comes through because you don't want to, you know, you don't drop your friends, you don't wanna Yeah. You don't wanna let them down. Um, and you wanna do, you wanna, um, make everything as best for yourself too. Mm-hmm. Did you ever. Did you ever consider dancing as your like day job, career, like as a, how you were making your, your income?
I actually, okay. I thought about it, but I never, I never really wanted to do that. Mm-hmm. Because I loved it so much. Um, and it felt like the thing that was my escape from school, from work, um, that I felt as soon as I started to associate a paycheck with it mm-hmm. I would put so much pressure on myself, um, that it, I would lose some of the fun.
Mm-hmm.
And I would lose, um, kind of the creativity and the artistry, um, because there would be too much pressure. Yeah. So I, uh, intentionally didn't, didn't pursue that. Sometimes I wonder though, what would've happened otherwise. Right. I mean, there's so many possibilities. Yeah. Um, how did you end up in advertising.
By accident. Um, um, I was an English major in college and didn't know what to do with that degree. Um, my options, what I felt like in, in college, my options were becoming an English teacher. Mm-hmm. Um, or going into law school 'cause that's typically what people do. Um, and I wasn't really up for either of those things.
Um, and so I took an advertising class as, um. Like a, it was a free credit. Mm-hmm. Kind of thing. And I figured, all right, well if I have an English degree, I can write really well and advertisements need people to write. So maybe I'll look into kind of that angle of it. And it was a fun class. Um, and I was having actually Thanksgiving dinner with, um, my best friend's family and her uncle, this is a very long-winded story.
Her uncle was a client of an, a small agency in Irvine. Um, and so, you know, he's asking the whole question, you know, what are you gonna do when you graduate? And I'm saying, I don't know, but I'm taking this advertising class. And then he was the one who was like, oh, well if you're interested, I can introduce you to the owner of the advertising agency that I'm working with, because maybe he can give you some advice and tell you what it's like in that industry.
Mm-hmm.
Which was a wonderful offer, um, for him to help me make that connection. So I met, met with the owner, um, and just had coffee with him and, um, got to learn a little bit more about what advertising is about. And I loved the thought that it really requires a lot of left brain thinkers and a lot of right brain thinkers collaborating and working together.
Mm-hmm. Um, because you have to have a creative idea, but then you also have to execute upon it in a way that a layman is going to understand. Mm-hmm. Um, and there's a very, a very heavy, uh, psychological layer in there too. Yeah. Where you're, you're really trying to convince people. So I found that very interesting and captivating.
Um, and so I met the, he's a co-owner, so I met the partner, um, and they hired me to just work as the receptionist. Um, I was part-time and, um. Because they were so small, there were maybe 15 people at the time. Um, I ended up doing more than just answering phones and leading people to conference rooms.
Mm-hmm. Um, I ended up looking at the work itself, um, whether they were presentation decks or if I sometimes was proofing social media posts, helping to, um, find vendors. And so because I started taking on this miscellaneous role, I understood more and more about it. Um, and, and then there was, um, an account director at that agency, Deborah Buxton.
Um, and she, I think, saw potential in me or saw that I was bored at the front desk and basically took me under her wing and was like, I'm gonna teach you, um, what I know and you're gonna help me. And so she got me into the account management department. Mm-hmm. And that's still what I do now. Um, and that role is really.
It's difficult to describe because I, when I say it aloud, it sounds like I don't do anything. Um, but which is the farthest from the truth. But like I, I'm not the one that comes up with the creative idea. I'm not the one that outlines the strategy. I'm not the one who technically is producing or filming anything, but I am the.
Main communicator who makes all that stuff happen. Mm-hmm. Um, my primary role is to, uh, communicate and to be the steward for the client, whoever that client is. They're typically in the marketing department of their company. And so I have to understand the business side, um, of what they're going through and understanding those challenges.
And then helping to facilitate with the whole rest of our agency team, how we can solve for those business challenges. And so I have to be the glue and the facilitator and the leader and the listener kind of all at the same time. Um, and so from that small agency in Irvine, um, I made connections with different people.
Moved to, um, an agency in la um, where I got a ton of experience. They were really, really great for me to learn. Uh. A shit load from, um, I, I really felt like I grew a lot there. And then most recently, three years ago, um, which is not super recently, but three years ago, moved over to Mullin Low, where I am right now.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I, I love it. I think specifically because you have to be both right brained and left, left-brained at the same time. And even if it's not my primary job to come up with the creative ideas, I have to understand them and figure out how to make them reality. And I think that's what I like so much, um, is bringing those things to life.
Part of the reason why I think that you and I always have so much fun when we're hanging out together is that I think that our brains actually work very similarly. Right? Yeah. We, we love, we love reading, we love learning, we love like doing things, but making them as fun as possible when we have to do them.
Like when we used to work out together, I like would, we'd be laughing more than we were working on, I think. But we were there like, well, we have to do this. How do we make it fun? Yeah. Um, and just the idea of like taking something from nothing. Right. It's one of those skills that when people ask, what's a superpower?
I'm like, I can make something from nothing. Mm-hmm. And they're like, what? Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And like most people don't know how to be like, here's the idea. What do I do with it now? And, and the role that you have is so much that role, like
mm-hmm.
You are ultimately the producer of the entire show at the end of the day, even if you're not doing the individual parts.
And I think I'm just fascinated by people who think. Similarly to how I do, because I don't think it's happens often. I bump into people like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, um, that's so very true. And I, I would say the flip side of that is because you have that capacity to think that way and to be creative and, and not get roadblocked super easily.
Mm-hmm. Um, I would say you also, I think you would also have kind of trouble understanding how other people. Do get roadblocked. Mm-hmm. How they, how they can't think that way too. Um, because I know I've run into that sometimes where it's so natural for me to call someone and talk through an issue and figure out a solution when that in itself could have stopped someone.
Mm-hmm. And really it's, it, it is so second nature. Um, and I sometimes I find it hard to remember that not everyone has that capacity. Not everyone has had that experience to know what to do. Um, so it's a, a good reminder. Um, but no, I think our, our brains are so much alike. Yeah. No, and it's, it's, and I also really appreciate people who, um, appre like, just like good old fashioned, wholesome fun.
Oh my gosh, yes. It sounds so nerdy saying it out loud, but it's like, some of my favorite times are just like game nights, which. We've done with brand Nate, and I know that we've done with our own families and there's just, it's, there's so much. If we can be doing something and using our brains and having fun mm-hmm.
That's like my favorite fun. Mm-hmm. If we get to, if it's sit around and hang out, I wanna poke up my eyeballs most of the time. Like, I'm so, I'm such a pain in the ass when it comes to needing mental stimulation. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and I think that's also why like, you know, whether it's physical things or a game or building something, I'm like, what are we doing?
Right. Right. Yeah. What's next? Yeah. And I have to remember that. Everyone else doesn't need a what's next?
Mm-hmm.
I'm currently taking a, um, psychotherapeutic yoga teacher training. Oh wow. Which is actually Wow. Incredible 'cause it's brain science with insights into how therapy works. Plus a regular on top of yoga teacher training.
Highly recommend. And it actually applies to my job way more than I thought it would because we're doing so much about, uh, as you mentioned before, like the persuasion. Mm-hmm. And how you're helping people get from where they are today to where, where they wanna go. And now we're focusing a lot in like anxiety and depression, but people get anxiety and depression every day in some capacity, right?
Mm-hmm. How does that influence customers and clients and whoever we're working with? But I'm bringing all this up 'cause we were talking about the Doshas of Ayurveda and I'm reading the, the description of, I believe it's the pda, and I'm like, oh my God, that's me. Like, I'm never had something like describe me in such a capacity where I'm like, this is better than my horoscope.
Like where does this come from? But it did speak to like always needing the next thing and like mm-hmm. That, and I think also like the making something from nothing really comes from this determination of like, oh no, this is happening. Like other people were like, uh, maybe it's not supposed to happen.
We're like, Nope. This is what we decided. I've already chosen. It's happening. Yep, yep. Yes. I think, um, we're not of the, the school of thought where it's like, you know, if if it's meant to happen, it'll happen. It's like, oh, I'm gonna make it happen. Yeah. Um, or I'm intentionally not going to let it happen, you know?
Mm-hmm. There's, there's definitely a factor of choice, which is huge in all of that.
Mm-hmm.
When you look back at 8-year-old self mm-hmm. Would she be, um, surprised at anything that you are or aren't doing that? Oh, I think so. My 8-year-old self, I think, uh, was going to either be a librarian or an astronaut.
Um, really. Yes, those were always on my list. Yes. Because I loved organizing the books and using them all. Oh my gosh. I would make, um, you remember libraries would have the, the pieces of paper, the tabs that would go inside the inner co, inner cover with like the stamped dates mm-hmm. For when they were due back.
I would do that to my own home library. Um, my mom got me the date stamp, um, and I, that's all I wanted to do. I wanted to organize the books by color or by author and, um, read them obviously. Yes. Mm-hmm. Um, and then astronauts, I was always, my dad loves space. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he worked at Boeing for a period of time, um, and still consults with them.
And so just. Through his interest and fascination with space, um, and science in general. I always wanted to do that too, but I think that's so great. You know, um, also thinking about being, being an 8-year-old girl. Mm-hmm. Um, and not being limited to what you wanted to be. It was like, yeah, of course I can be an astronaut or I could be a librarian.
I can do either of those things mm-hmm. And be equally happy, um, and, and thrive in, in each of those scenarios. Yeah, of course. I didn't either, but But you got still have to choose what you wanted, right? True, true. Yeah. And, and life is not over, so who knows what could be next. Um, no, it's, it's, there's, I feel like, um, you and I are are also really lucky in that we both had the exposure to, um, books and TV shows and movies where.
Girls got to choose.
Mm-hmm. Right.
Like I always reference like Babysitter's Club and Nancy Drew. Mm-hmm. Yes. And like, well, they can do whatever they want, like mm-hmm. Crying out loud, she's breaking into buildings. I think I can do, I want for work. So, um, just having that exposure of Yeah, why not? Mm-hmm.
And it's crazy to me when I run into people who also don't, don't have that exposure or even had access to those things, but still don't think they can, which
mm-hmm.
As I've told you in the past, it's like the whole origin of powerful ladies. Like what do you mean you can't, like who said no. Right. Um, and I do have to say that a huge motivator for me is when people say no.
And not that I like breaking rules, but if somebody tells me something's not possible mm-hmm. I'm like, yes it is. And now I will show you how. It's a, it's a challenge where you're saying, you know, all right, perfect. You have outlined the norm for me. Mm-hmm. And I'm going to prove to you that those, those norms can be broken down and we can build up something new.
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Um, 'cause that's, that's what we do. We build things. Mm-hmm. We mm-hmm. Um, you know, with that mindset of like, knowing that you could, you could choose librarian or astronaut and or dance or whatever it was that you wanted to do. When you look around at the world today, what are, what are things that you get fired up about or frustrated about where you're like, you feel caused to, if not taking a direct action into it, you at least it's something that you are following or having conversations about.
That's a great question. Um. I think arts in schools, um, is one of those things that gets me because it made such an impact on my own life. Mm-hmm. And so I, I feel very passionately that if I didn't have art in school or out of school, um, I wouldn't be the person that I am today. Um, and not just in terms of, you know, if I would've danced or not, it's like I don't think I would've been an empathetic person.
Mm-hmm. Um, I don't think I would, um, listen in the same way. I don't think I would have the same range of emotions. Um, much, much more soft. They're like the soft, deep pieces of me, um, not just what my talents are. Mm-hmm. Um, so. I, I think that's pretty big for me. I, I, it's just so important for kids to get the exposure so they know that they have a choice.
Mm-hmm. Um, not everyone is meant to be a great singer or to, you know, play the recorder in a fantastic way. Um, but, but having those building blocks and getting that exposure, um, I think is so important because it can be a huge outlet, um, to, to artists. Um, but it's also. It just, it give, it give, it gives you so much depth as a person.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and I feel like that's really important, and that kind of goes hand in hand just with education in general. Um, my, um, my dad is a professor at Cal State Long Beach. And so education is also one of those things that I think is really important. Um, obviously not, not everyone needs a college degree.
Um, I think our, our world has changed and we, you don't need to follow those exact steps in order to be successful. Mm-hmm. Um, but continuing to learn and be curious about things and, and getting an education, whether it's formal or not, I think that's also really important. Um, because being stagnant and being, uh, being satisfied with what you have, um.
Isn't going to open up opportunities for you. It, it, you're gonna continue to work in the same playing field as what you currently have. Um, but if you have that curiosity and you have that, um, motivation and that drive to expand and try something new, um, that's where, that's where there are new opportunities and that's where I think there's so much magic, right?
Mm-hmm. Like curiosity plus information and then the empowerment behind, like, it's okay. Like you can go, you can go figure that out, you can read that.
Mm-hmm.
To me, that's like the, the magic formula of, of where anything is possible from.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You might
look at educ, like, education's such a big deal for, for me, because of having both been to so many different types and sizes of schools growing up, we moved so much that mm-hmm.
I saw what it was like to be in a school where there was like 80 people in your class. Then I saw what it was like to be in a school with the 700 people in your class and access to lots of activities in sports and access to less, and like how it changed and impacted people. Mm-hmm. And it's the, the idea of, you know, knowing, especially in places that are challenged, um, economically.
Mm-hmm.
There's such a, there's so much opportunity to escape mentally and literally and do whatever you want through that channel of education.
Mm-hmm.
And how it's not. Or encouraged or treated like this magical thing in all places. Like, just breaks my heart. Yeah. I guess in your experiences then, because you mm-hmm.
You have such a wide variety mm-hmm. Um, do you feel like that also played a really, um, or I guess how, how did the children's ages, um, how were the, how was that impacted? Because I imagine mm-hmm. Being, being younger and not having exposure and then getting it when you're older is gonna be different than the opposite.
Well, if so, if I think about, and you're asking about like ages to what type of ed school systems there were and Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm also a big believer that kids are. The smartest humans we have on the planet. Like people are like, we shouldn't let 16 year olds vote. I'm like, can we just ask five year olds to vote?
Like I would be pro 10 and under making all political decisions going forward. Um, 'cause they just, they choose, they choose from their heart, right? Mm-hmm. They choose what will make more people safe and happy and all the things that they want. Yeah. So having seen most kids come into school with so much opportunity ahead of them and what takes it away?
Is it either not being encouraged at school or not being encouraged at home?
Mm-hmm.
And even kids who I knew being friends with them had challenging home lives. They could still come to school and if they had a great teacher do great. Yeah. Like it could be a sanctuary. Mm-hmm. And then there were other kids who it got double compounded because they didn't have a good home life and then they didn't connect or didn't feel heard from the teachers that they had.
Mm-hmm.
And it just, they, they double down on it not being worth it.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I do, my experience has been that the smaller the school mm-hmm. Even though you would think like, oh, that's less opportunities for people to have all these different programs. It because there were less people, it meant that you needed everyone in a different way.
Where if you wanted to fill, if you wanted have an art class, you had to get everyone to take the art class. And if you wanted to have a basketball team, you had to get everyone to play the on the basketball team. And so. There's a little bit of like making, coming together and you can't hide. Yeah. The same way you can in a, in a big school.
So I think there's probably a magic number that education experts know what that is. Right. And I'm gonna guess from my anthropology background that it has to do with the same number of like what a tribe equals.
Mm-hmm.
Like one 50 ish. Mm-hmm. I would guess they're about the same. 'cause it has to do with how many people you can remember and connect with and have a relationship with at any time.
And I, that's probably, there's a magic formula in there of how to, how to make it work. I think it really, it, it's frustrating to me that so much so often education becomes about money and about right now versus what we're creating later. Mm-hmm.
Because,
you know, we had, um, Cheryl will be on recently from Soul Fire Farm.
And did you, have you listened to that one? Not yet. Okay. Um, but we talked about how. Um, nutritious food. Mm-hmm. And land ownership can change equality. And they're like the simplest things. Like it doesn't require restructuring all these huge, complicated systems. It's like, no, give people real food and let them have a farm, or let them have a house and things will change.
And I feel like education's that same thing. Like it's one of the foundational, um, issues versus a symptom. So why don't we just fix that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's a really good point. I, um, it feels like it should be so much simpler than. What the issue actually is. Mm-hmm. Because as you said, money, um, money and where the money is coming from and where it's going and how it's being prioritized and if it's being equally distributed or not.
Yeah. Um, all of those complexities, all the, all the politics, um, feels like it's getting in the way of something that I feel like is so fundamental. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and that everyone deserves to have, you know, a, a strong education. Yeah. It sounds like the opportunity. Yeah, exactly. And, and it sounds like you and I have also had really lucky experiences where we've had parents in the education system who passing on education mattered and.
I know, like my parents, or at least my mother was like super involved in, she used to make us do school. Before we were in school, we had to do summer school. Like I think when she didn't have her outlet to teach, she's like, that's it. You're my students. Let's go. Um, so, um, you know, to, to me, one of the biggest revelations for this year has been, while it feels exhausting and daunting sometimes I, it's reminded me that anything we care about, we have to be active in.
Mm-hmm. Even to some capacity. And I think that that's another thing that happens with education, where people think, okay, the school's there, like, I'm done. Right? And whether you have kids in school or not, you, like, you, we can't say it's done. Like how do we know it's actually being handled unless we're either even just voting for people in the school board.
Like it doesn't, there's so many ways to, to, to take an action in that direction and. You Yeah. Right now, like we have to be participating in what matters. Mm-hmm. At least to us. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that's, um, such a good observation that you made about quarantine in 2020. Like, you really have to go out of your way to pay attention to the things that you know, matter to you.
Otherwise, it's so easy to just let them fall by the wayside. Um, because of the physical confinement and, and mentally everyone is so, I think tapped out on a lot of things. Yes. Um, you have to, you have to realize what matters and then pursue that, which I think has been actually very, um, freeing. For me personally, it's been nice that I've been able to let go of the things that don't matter that I was holding onto because of.
Appearances or out of habit, um, and realizing what does matter and what is important and, and figuring out how to make an impact. Um, in that way. Do you feel like you've kind of reconnected with who you are this year as a result of being stuck with yourself in, in some ways? Yeah. Um, mm-hmm. In other ways.
I feel like at the same time, I don't know. I don't know who I am, um, yeah. And what I want to be, because there are, it's kind of that, uh, the deconstruction before the reconstruction.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, and right now I feel like I'm a little in pieces. I'm in transition, I would say. Yeah. In figuring out, um, what the next.
Like, what the next, uh, reiteration of myself I'm really going to be.
Mm-hmm. But
it, it has been, um, there's a lot of self-reflection. There's a lot of, um, feeling limited. There's a lot of feeling limitless. Um, it, it really is kind of all of those things in a single day. Sometimes it, I, I find that so profound of how, by the sake of taking away the, the routines that we had
mm-hmm.
That I, I have felt more emotions this year than I think I have in a decade. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're so true. Like all the, you can have all the feelings in one day or in one hour based on what's happening and it's, yeah. It really, it feels, I keep, I've been referencing it quite a bit of how it feels that we've done in one year.
What, what would take a decade? Mm-hmm. Both what we've had to learn and adjust to, and we've, like, everyone's leveled up like over and over and over again because mm-hmm. There's been so many. Just when you think that this year's like, oh, we got this, that, it's like, just kidding. Right. Something else. Yeah.
Something else. You have passed a level three. Congratulations. You're like, no, I didn't wanna go to level three yet. Yeah. I need a breather. I need a little bit of a break. Yes. Um, with, in that space, when you think about powerful and ladies as Words mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Separately and together mm-hmm. What do they mean to you?
Hmm. So the word ladies, my first thought is, you know, being a old bookish person, um, it makes me think of, you know, like Jane Austen. Mm-hmm. Ladies, um, Downton Abbey, one of my favorite shows. Um, really, you know, the, the Rich Upper class. Um, but. Obviously there's, there's so much more to it than that, but that, that's, I think, one definition, um, fun.
Um, ladies are always fun. Um, powerful.
Powerful, I think can be, um, obviously like there's imagery of like lions and strength and, and, um, not letting, uh, being the, being like the captain of the guard who, you know, can
mm-hmm.
Um, overcome, um, challenges. But I feel like, at least for myself, I have found people to be most powerful and impactful when they have a more subtle, um, approach.
Mm-hmm. Um, I feel like my. My grandmother, for example, is, is not someone who I would say is physically powerful. Um, she's 91 years old, so you know, there's only so much you can do. Um, but she is the person who holds the family together. She's the one who calls everyone every single day. Um, she's the one that motivates people to do better.
She is the one who gives quiet small reprimands when they're needed. Um, and, and to me that's very powerful. Um, I think because it's impactful. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think I would say that that association is probably, um, most significant for me. Mm-hmm. Um, and then together powerful ladies. Um. First ladies being plural, like having that whole community and, um, the collaboration that comes with that, just really as you said, like, um, having a tribe mm-hmm.
Rely on, um, and people to be inspired by, um, and, and people to mentor, um, I think is really, really great. Um, and obviously the Association of Powerful Ladies is something that I always make with you, um, because I feel like I've, I remember hearing you talk about powerful ladies, like basically from the beginning.
Mm-hmm. Um, and to watch it grow into the empire that you have now is so wonderful. Well, it's very nice of you. Thank you. Um, and you mentioned the plurality. Um, what have the women in your life meant to you and how have they helped you get to where you are today? Hmm. They mean so much, um, and. I feel like there are so many people who have played a significant role.
Um, even if that significant role is for a short period of time, um, you know, it can be someone I, um, I have a, a first grade teacher who was very strict, um, but um, always would push her students to do their best. Mm-hmm. Um, there was, I had a coworker who I remember one time asked me, you know, what, what are your, what are your goals?
What are your ambitions? And I remember giving a very, like, hand answer, um, of, you know, I want ownership of blah, blah, blah, and I wanna have a better relationship. And they're like, no, no, no. You wanna be the best. Um, and that, mm-hmm. That flip of mentality really made a big impact on me too. Um, can we talk about that for a second?
I think that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. So when you say, when someone said to you, you wanna be the best
mm-hmm.
Where were they saying that from and what did you make that mean when you, when you heard it? Um, I think they were observing in me what I couldn't recognize myself. Mm-hmm. Um, but they were seeing that I, I generally follow rules and I follow steps, and so I was giving them the answer like, well, in order to move up and be promoted, I must complete X, Y, and Z.
Mm-hmm. So my goals are X, Y, and Z. And they were helping me see that you don't always have to follow the exact steps to get where you want to go. Mm-hmm. And if you know what you want. To do then There are so many ways to get there and so many, um, so many avenues and so many opportunities that you can take a hold of mm-hmm.
And make that change. And that's kind of what we were talking about earlier where, um, you know, I didn't always think that way. I didn't always have that same ambition and, and, um, that person was really pivotal and mm-hmm. In helping me understand that, um, I could do so much more. Um, and I, I took their comment as, as saying like, oh, I can do so much more.
Mm-hmm. I don't need to follow the same mold. Um, I can, um, and that will, that will help me progress, but I have to have something larger to aspire to. Mm-hmm. Um, and I feel like that's something that I still think about every once in a while. If I feel like I'm not doing the best that I can be, um, on a, any given day.
Um. It's something that I reflect on where it's like, okay, I, how can I be the best? Because the best doesn't always mean checking three boxes. It it, mm-hmm. It sometimes means something so much more. And do you evaluate your, just your career or do you evaluate all the parts of your life by asking questions like that?
Uh, all, like, all aspects of my life, yeah. At different times. Um, all at once would be a little overwhelming. Um, but, um, I feel like that's something if, um, if I'm having an argument, um, and I often will be the one who overreacts or gets more emotional, um, I, I try and stop and think like, okay, if. How am I reacting?
Like trying to, trying to look at it, um, objectively. Mm-hmm. And see how can I be the best partner, the best sister, the best daughter, the best coworker in this scenario. Mm-hmm. Um, and oftentimes that requires for me to apologize, um, and listen to the other person and try and resolve the, whatever the issue was.
Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, just trying to figure out how can I be the best and the best means different things, you know, different things in different scenarios, um, whether it's work or personal life. Um, and also depending on like, on the situation where mm-hmm. You know, being, um.
I entirely lost my train of thought. And like, trying to define, trying to define the best is difficult because I feel like it, it changes so often. There's no one way to be the best. Um, I totally agree. Right. Yeah. It's just, it's just a marker. It's, it's a check-in question. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And I, I love that you, um, that we're using the, the phrase the best because I think so often people get uncomfortable saying they want to be the best, or how can I be the best?
Mm-hmm. Because we put it into the space of being competitive or someone having less than, like, if we're the best, you can't be the best. Mm-hmm.
And
that's not at all what I hear and what you're sharing right now. And I think it's really important to point that out because I think it's so powerful to ask yourself, am I being the best that I can be?
Am I. Am I, whatever we're doing. Mm-hmm. Are we doing it just because it's something to pass the time or is it something because we really want to have mastery in it and, and feel confident in it. And there's so many people that come to me and, and it, what the coaching is required comes down to confidence.
And there's, I, you can't coach people to have drive. And there's this, there's this piece of like, do you want to be the best? Like, do you wanna surprise yourself? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Go, go see how far you can push it. If you play, I'm gonna win. Mm-hmm. Just see like, 'cause you don't, you can win and be a good.
Have good sportsmanship. You don't need to step on people along the way. Right. Um, but go see how far you can push it. It's being competitive with yourself, I think. Mm-hmm. More than with the person next to you, because you're right. You don't, you don't really want to step on other people in order to climb to the top.
Mm-hmm.
Um,
but, but, um, challenging yourself and being competitive, um, and as you said, be the, how can I be the best that I can be? What's my best? Mm-hmm. I think is, um, a good way to think about it, because then you're, you're. You are just trying to make yourself better, um, and you're usually doing it for yourself and for other people.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, I, I feel like leading by example is also important. So if, if you're pushing yourself to be the best, you're gonna inspire someone else. Yeah. Um, and, and that, you know, you never know how much of a powerful and impactful moment that can be on someone else's life. And it's all about
Yes.
You know,
sharing that inspiration. But I can, um, I would say you, you mentioned that it's hard to coach someone to have drive.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but I feel like you're also really good at helping people find the thing that drives them. Um. That's something that I've noticed about you. It's, it's not just about helping people, um, figure out the logistics of like what to do next, but you, you ask really good questions and bring up really good conversation topics that kind of helps those people find that spark, um mm-hmm.
That will, uh, give them drive and motivation to, to do their best. Mm-hmm. Well, that's a perfect segue to what are the things that, what motivates you to be your best? Like, when you look at what is it that, that. Lights your fire other than personal competition, like what else is it like, um, what's the why behind the, the choices that you're making and what you're creating next?
Uh, the people or the people like in my life? Okay.
Mm-hmm. Um, I
want to be the best for, for Cody. Um, my fiance, I want to be the best for my sister. Um, so she has a role model to look up to. I wanna be the best for my friends because I think they're the best. Um, and you always wanna reciprocate that for them.
Mm-hmm. Um, I wanna be the best, um, for my coworkers so that they have someone who they can trust and rely on, um, and someone who can mentor them. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, I, it's, it's the people I love. Um, yeah. Being able to see how my role is kind of reflected in, in, in their actions, um, and, uh, how it makes that impact.
I think that's. Yeah, that's the best. Well, and it brings me back to what you're, we started talking about in regards to dance and how you didn't wanna be the one at the back. You didn't wanna be the one weighing everyone down.
Mm-hmm.
And it's this, that's a huge motivator for me, especially when I, I'd never danced, but playing lots of team sports, it's the same thing.
Like, you realize what a contribution you are.
Mm-hmm.
Or if not, if you don't use the word contribution, you know the impact you have. Right. And you don't want the impact to be bad. Right. When we were at, when I was at Reebok, um. My wall buddy, Stephanie. We were divided by a partition with our cubicles, uhhuh, but we worked on, we were, um, in peers like doing the same job role, but for different categories.
And we did a lot of data entry in this job. We were project managers for apparel and we, every week there there'd be this list that would come out if any of the data was incorrect, like it wasn't working somewhere else.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
And we were, she and I are both competitive people anyway, but we'd be like, we cannot be on the loser list.
That's what we called it. And the list would come out and if you were on it, you were like, shit. And like you would go and fix it right away. 'cause you're like, this has got to go away. Um, but like, and if we weren't on it, it was like, okay, phew, we can, we can keep going. But I really relate, it sounds so horrible.
I'm sure there's a therapist that would scold me for using this term loser list, but it, it really did motivate you to be like, no, I'm gonna get my shit done. Do it correctly. 'cause if I don't, that means somebody else has to work until who knows what on a Friday. And I don't want that to be the impact that I'm making.
Right. Um, and as you so many places I've worked, if, if the, if the group is operating at a high level, it really is this all boats rise. Mm-hmm. So if we're all pushing ourselves individually, not to the the point of like having a mental breakdown, but if we're all committed to rising and moving forward.
That's also another place where I think magic happens. Mm-hmm.
And
I'm sure you see in the results it get produced at work and also what you've seen in dance.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. No, absolutely. When you have everyone who's working towards the same goal
mm-hmm. And
when all of those people understand what their role is to get you to that goal mm-hmm.
That really is where the magic happens. And to have a team like that, um, it makes all the difference because that's when you can have fun too. Yeah. Um, you're not as stressed about worrying if. You're doing something right or doing something wrong, or is it the right decision? You probably think those things anyways, but, um, when you know your goal and you can rely on the people around you to like kind of mm-hmm.
Check you. Mm-hmm. You know, if it's like, Hey, that doesn't make sense, then, um, then you know, you're working towards, uh, achieving that thing together. And that's I think when the success, the show, the commercial, when everything feels so much, um, so much sweeter. Yeah. Because you really cross that finish line as a team.
So cliche, but that really is what it feels like. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, when, uh, there were a couple rhetorical shows where it really was. A very collaborative effort, you know, everyone is building sets together, um, and everyone is, is pulling their own, their own weight, I guess. Mm-hmm. Because everyone wants it to be a success.
Um, and that's also the camaraderie that you have amongst people that you, um, spend a lot of time with. Mm-hmm. Um, open up to, um, and work hard with. Um, and when you, most people, when they think of advertising, they have lots of ideas, right? They think either mad men or they think, um, they think good things, they think bad things.
Um, I have, I've crossed paths with lots of advertising agencies, with the brands I've worked at. Um, it's definitely a place that can be competitive and creative, and there's so many personalities. Mm-hmm. So when you, mm-hmm. You know, the fact that you're able to even bring all those people together is like a small miracle every project I imagine.
Yeah. 'cause you have a different combination of personalities each, each time. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's so dependent on the clients as well, actually, and I, I really don't know if clients understand how much of an impact they make on the rest of the team.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but if they're stressed and they. They push that stress onto the agency team, then we are working under that stressful pressure and that's mm-hmm.
It impacts the, the end result. Um, but yeah, it's a lot to deal with some days more than others. Um, but usually I'm lucky enough to work on, um, on one client where we have kind of main, main leads who are consistent across all the projects. And then you have other individuals that kind of come in and out.
Mm-hmm.
Depending on, um, on what the. Project is and what the specialty that's required. Um, so when you have, we have kind of three main people who are always, we're the stabilizers, I think, in everything. Yeah. Um, and if we're all on the same page, then we can help keep the whole team on the same page with, which is really key.
Mm-hmm. Um, especially when people are working on a bunch of different projects and schedules are erratic, um, and things just change so quickly. Um, yes. I think especially this past year, um, brands had to be very reactive. Yes. Um, with to COVID and, um, a lot of times it, it was very difficult, especially at the beginning to understand what the right message was going to be to, to say mm-hmm.
Um, for each brand in their different scenarios. And so, um. Having, having my counterparts, my creative, my strategic counterparts who I could trust and rely on was so needed, um, when everything else was always in flux.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and, and being on a similar path this year, right. Of like, well, you're pivoting all of your brands.
I'm pivoting all my clients. Mm-hmm. Plus they're my own brands. And it felt like every time we got clear on what messaging might be safe, we had to throw it away and start over again. Yeah. I think it, it really was about prioritizing. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and as you said, like you kind of, you have to make a choice early enough in advance so you can be thoughtful in what you are saying and what you're creating.
Mm-hmm. Because I think the, the worst thing would be to say like, oh my gosh, we have to say something about Black Lives Matter right now. But it would be so cobbled together and thoughtless that it is then a. Disrespectful and not. Mm-hmm. And not helping, um, the cause, 'cause you're not really putting enough thought into, into that message and into that craft.
Mm-hmm. Um, so prioritizing, delegating, um, was also really important. Uh, when we were speaking with the clients, we would, um, we would have conversations where the agency would take on some messaging that was going to be a little bit more like longer term we knew, um, this is eventually what we're going to be saying.
We just don't know exactly when. Mm-hmm. Um, and then the client's team would take on some of the more day-to-day, um, quick reaction kind of things. Yeah. And I think that was also really helpful just to understand who was focusing on what.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so that you just are, are able to stay, stay in your lane in a way, in, in a constructive way.
Yes. Um, where you're not, you're not worrying about things that you don't need to. Um, so I think that was really, that was really key. And then, um. Just asking people how they're doing on a daily basis was also something that I started to do. Mm-hmm.
Um,
with my own team and with the clients, because you don't know how, how everyone's emotions were affecting them.
Mm-hmm. Um, each hour, let alone each day. Yeah. So I think that was also helpful to just, to have an open space where people could, could say, you know, I'm gonna take this call with my camera off. Um, and giving them the space to do that, because that also helps the work. Um, at the end of the day, if each individual feels safe enough to, to live in whatever emotion that they're feeling.
Mm-hmm. Um, rather than trying to strain themselves in terms of stepping up, there was just way too much happening. Um, and I, I feel like that helped everyone feel comfortable, um, for, for the work too, to have conversations about the work. I mean, business is not without being human.
Mm-hmm.
Right. Ultimately it's all humans trying to talk to other humans.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's silly when we try to remove that too much. Right. And you know, having people and then processes and then whatever the results are being, being the order really matters because you can't get things done by yourself. And if you're forgetting that you're doing all of this to talk to people out there, then you forget about the people as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm-hmm. So, as we look into what you're creating for what's next for you, like what are your, what do you have on your agenda for 2021? Or even just what's next? Like what are you excited to be creating and putting together? Um, well, wedding planning, um, will be one thing. Um, I think that's something I'm really excited about.
Um, I don't really know how to get started. Um, especially with the pandemic I like. Mm-hmm. You know, usually you have to pick a, a venue and a date and I don't know how to do that right now, um, where people would be able to come. Mm-hmm. But I'm super excited about that. Um, still on a personal level, Cody and I are looking at moving.
Mm-hmm. Um, so trying to figure out all of the ins and outs of, of that. Um, and I think next year I, I definitely wanna spend more time, I think, uh. Figuring out what else I can do. Like that side hustle that you, that powerful ladies always talks about. I want to do that a little bit more. Mm-hmm. Um, because I'm not dancing on a regular basis anymore.
I need to do something for myself. Yeah. Um, I need to have that, that passion project, um, that I can put a lot of energy in and whether that's, um, whether that I, I dabble in calligraphy, so whether it's something along those lines, if it's something crafty or if I can find another organization, uh, where my skillset will be applicable, I would love to do that.
Um, but yeah, I think I need to focus on, on feeding, feeding my soul again, um, in a different way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know. It's like I, I feel like we've all gotten really good at being like homesteaders this year. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think next year I'm like, can we just layer on like. Engaging with people like in real life.
I just wanna do that. Yeah. Like we don't even need to go back to like, all things are normal. I just wanna layer on a little bit. Right? Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, just a little bit more interaction. Um, and a little bit more, um, forward moving action. I think that's also something that people have lacked this year.
'cause it feels like we're, as you said, like we're just in this cycle where we have stay at home orders. We don't have stay at home orders. You can go out and support local businesses, but no, you can't. Um, you know, there's just, there's so much, um. Back and forth that it will be nice to feel like we're making some progress.
Yes. Um, both in, in terms of COVID, but like in our own lives too, so. Mm-hmm. I'm looking, looking to find that. Yes, me too. Connect me, you know, people. I do, I do. Um, and then we ask everyone on the podcast where you rank yourself on the powerful Lady scale. Um, you know, one being average everyday human, and 10 being the most powerful lady possible.
How would you rank yourself today and how do you think you rank yourself on average today? Today, I feel like, uh, probably like a seven. I feel like I, you know, it's still morning, still a lot to still be done. Um, and I think on average, on average, I, I feel like I'm higher, maybe like an eight, eight and a half.
Um, but, uh. Yeah. Feeling pretty good. I like it. What are things that make you feel powerful?
Accomplishments. Yeah. Um, getting a thank you from people, like acknowledgement that mm-hmm. Um, that they're recognizing something that I've done. Um, doing something that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. If it's volunteering, if it's, um, talking to an old neighbor for 20 minutes because they need someone to talk to.
Mm-hmm. Um,
checking things off of my to-do list. Yes. I know I have my done list, which I've been doing during COVID, and it's so much better than a to-do list. Some days, like I go back and forth, I always have a to-do list because I have to keep track of all the things
Uhhuh.
But on days where I'm like, I need to be like moving my done list changes everything.
'cause I record everything I did. Like, oh, I shared and got dressed today. Oh, you know, I had this meeting. That's done. That's done. That's awesome. Yeah. It's not, I sold this idea from Marina Serant, um, she, one of our podcast guests in the past and she's a powerful lady's community member. Um, but yeah, when you are feeling stuck, a done list can change everything.
Mm-hmm. 'cause you realize like, oh shit, I haven't sat down all day, so I should have a list of things. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's great. I feel like that's a wonderful tool to feel like. To feel like you have, uh, to, I guess not to feel like you've accomplished anything, but to realize what you have accomplished throughout the day.
Um, because depending on how you're feeling, showering and getting dressed, not something I do every day. Um, so that that isn't in itself an accomplishment. Yeah. It's like, today I am not wearing leggings. Yes. Now there's anything wrong with that, but it does change. Just change all things. Um, and because we both love books, are there any books that you're reading right now or any books you've read this year that you have totally loved?
Oh, um, yes. Always. Um, I loved, uh, a Gentleman in Moscow. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Um, it is not an action packed book at all, but it, it. Is so wonderful. Um, it follows the story of, um, a Russian, um, royalty, um, or some kind of higher upperclassmen mm-hmm. Who for political reasons is confined to a single hotel. And, um, while at first it feels like his life is now confined to a single place, it actually opens up his life so much more because he gets to know people on a much more intimate level.
Um, and kind of the, his world is turned upside down where he used to be, um, upper class, and now he is, now he's really, um, he ends up having to work mm-hmm. Um, at the hotel. And his, that whole story was just so wonderful. I loved that. Um, and then a man called uva, um, by Frederick. Beckman, I think, um, Jordan, we might have to double check that.
Um, was also really wonderful about like a, an old grouchy man, um, who has new neighbors move in and who entirely changed his life. Um, I loved, loved both of those. And then, um, uh, Robert Galbraith's books, um, the Cuckoo's Calling and the Silk Worm, um, that series. Um, I haven't read the latest book, um, but it just came out I think a month and a half ago or so.
Um, so that's on my, on my reading to-do list. Those are like mm-hmm. Murder mystery thrillers, so I'm excited. Yeah. Do you use Goodreads, the app? I, I have it, but I haven't, um, been very good about using it. Do you find it useful? I've been using it since 2000, like six. Okay. So, but I use it really just to track every book I read.
Mm-hmm. Because the librarian in me wants to know every book I've ever read. Uhhuh, I heard a story that my, my great-grandmother read all the books in her like neighborhood library. And I've always been like, is that possible? Like, I remember when I had Sasha Sagan on and we talked about how sad we are that we know that we will not get to read all the books that are available to us to read because it's like mm-hmm.
Physically impossible. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And like, we're sad about that. Mm-hmm. Um, but I like keeping track 'cause. Um, similar to your timestamp, I write my name and date in every book, and when people borrow them, I ask them to do the same so you can like see who's touched the book. Oh, cool. Um, so I use it to track it.
So mostly it's me putting all the books I've read when I read them, and also they have like the reading goal list every year.
Mm-hmm.
And my biggest failure last year was that I didn't achieve my reading goal. So this year I was like, that's it, this is absolutely happening. So I've already achieved it. I was like very aggressive.
Um, but it made me so mad of all the things that happened. I was like, what? Like this matters. Reading matters so much to me. I have all these books read. I didn't even hit my number. Yeah. This is the type of being the best that I was talking about earlier. Um, my chair is totally sunk. Okay. Um. With the COVID, there is a shortage of desk supplies, so I'm using my old chair and my old chair just keeps sinking as I sit.
No. Um, and it makes you feel better. I was, um, using a, a camping chair for a while at first. Mm-hmm. Um, and that did not help my back at all. It was not good. Yeah. I, I recently have moved from being at a counter height desk, like I was working in our dining space for a while. Mm-hmm. So my legs weren't touching the ground, and that was causing some, like, hip flexor issues.
Yeah. And so now I'm moving slowly back into my office, which is why it's like nothing's in here, as you can see on the Zoom. Um, so I can now, my feet are now on the ground, but. I sink throughout the day. So it's, it's like everything else in COVID, you're like figuring out, pacing it together, duct tape. Um, but no, but, so, but good reads, I just use for tracking.
And you can also, I also use it to list all the books people recommend so I can find 'em later. So I just use it for, for listing purposes. Yeah. Um, I end up using, um, audible kind of for that because I, I like to read physical books, but then also listen Me too. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I usually end up finding them on Audible and saving them like to my wishlist.
Mm-hmm. And then using that as my tracker. Yeah, that's good. It took me a while to switch over to listening to books. Um, and I much prefer it when. They're educational
mm-hmm.
Than like Moore's novels. 'cause most of my books tend to be nonfiction.
Mm-hmm.
And like, even, we'll cut this out of the thing, but you can see how I'm like writing Oh yeah.
All over this book. I mean, technically this is a textbook, it's like anatomy, but, um, I tend to write in a lot of my books. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, used to be pencil, but I gave that up because pencil card. So, um, so I do like having a book, but, um, the best one I read this year was Where the Crawdads Sing. Oh yes.
That one was so good. So good and educated. Have you done educated yet? No, I haven't. Okay. Listen to that one. Okay. Because the, um, the voice changes how you hear the book. Oh, okay. In a good way. Yeah. I love when you have a good narrator. Yeah. Um, okay. Educated. I will write that one down. Yeah, that one's fascinating.
So, yeah. Um. So, hold on. I got, I got totally sidetracked to start talking to you, like normal conversations. Let me, I'm wanna wrap this up. Um, well, I guess, you know, for, for everyone who's listening, right, who hears your story of, you know, having this, um, whole your dance career, having your advertising career and creating a life that's based on you being the best you can for the people in your life that you care about, how can they incorporate some of that into their life?
And are there any tips or tricks you recommend, um, for, you know, the best practices or rituals that you have that allow you to stay in that space?
Hmm.
Get enough sleep, I would say, um, get enough sleep and exercise so that you feel like physically optimal. Mm-hmm. Um. I think always trying to be kind, um, is really key.
Uh, one of the things that I learned from actually Brene Brown's book, dare to Lead, was sometimes the, the best way to be kind is to be clear, even if that means you're saying something, um, constructive. Mm-hmm. But, but not positive praise. Um, so being kind, um, and being a good listener because when you listen to people around you, then you'll really, I think, understand them better.
And that's also how you can figure out how to help them the best. Um, and how to be, how to be the best version of yourself for that person. Um, you have to make that a reciprocal relationship. Um, it's not just about. Being the best for you. It's, it's listening and, um, observing, um, the people around you and eat dessert because that just makes you happy.
It does, it does make you happy. Well, as always, it has been such a pleasure to spend time with you today. Thank you so much for being a guest in the Power Plays podcast, and I can't wait to see you soon and give you a big hug. Oh, I know. I can't wait. Well, thank you so much for having me. This was really great.
Did you know there are over 40 songs with the name Caroline in them after this episode? I think we all know why. If you don't have at least a little baby crush in Caroline now, I'm not sure. You're a warm-blooded human as always, she is smart, lovely in being around her, reminds me to be better. If you would like to connect, support or follow Caroline, you can follow her on Instagram at CM Handling her Facebook, LinkedIn, and email are all available@thepowerfulladies.com slash podcast.
Thank you so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of The Powerful Ladies Podcast. There are so many ways you can get involved and get supported with fellow powerful ladies. First, subscribe to this podcast anywhere you listen to podcast. Give us a five star rating and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.
Follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies. Join the Powerful Ladies Thrive Collective. This is the place where powerful ladies connect, level up, and learn how to thrive in business and life. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube page, and of course, visit our website, the powerful ladies.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy.
Without her, this wouldn't be possible. You can follow her on Instagram at Jordan K. Duffy. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
