Episode 130: Finding Purpose After Prison | Kristy Dinsmoor | Prisoner Reentry Network
Kristy Dinsmoor knows the power of second chances. As the founder of the Prisoner Reentry Network, she’s dedicated her life to helping people successfully transition back into society after incarceration. From navigating the stigma and logistical hurdles of reentry to creating programs that provide real support, Kristy has seen firsthand how guidance, resources, and human connection can change the trajectory of someone’s life. Her journey didn’t start in a boardroom. It began with a deep desire to make a tangible difference. Over the years, she’s worked alongside individuals, families, and community partners to address the complex realities of the justice system. We talk about what reentry really looks like, the gaps in existing support, and why sustainable change requires listening to the people directly impacted. Kristy’s story is a reminder that creating a more just and compassionate world is possible when we commit to action. Whether you’re passionate about criminal justice reform, curious about nonprofit leadership, or simply want to hear a story of resilience and purpose, this conversation will leave you inspired and ready to think differently about second chances.
“People in the system are so used to being treated like an animal, number or sub-human. When anyone shows them attention or care or looks them in the eye, they are so grateful.”
-
-
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Kristy Dinsmoor
01:15 Founding the Prisoner Reentry Network
03:05 The realities of prisoner reentry in the U.S.
05:20 Overcoming stigma after incarceration
07:45 Essential resources for successful reentry
10:10 Building trust with justice-impacted communities
12:25 Collaborating with nonprofits and local agencies
15:00 Common challenges for returning citizens
17:15 Policy changes that could improve reentry outcomes
19:30 Stories of transformation and hope
21:40 Volunteer and mentorship opportunities
23:15 Addressing housing and employment barriers
25:05 Why community support is critical
27:20 Lessons learned from leading a reentry nonprofit
29:10 How to get involved with Prisoner Reentry Network
Gratitude by far and large gratitude. They're so used to being treated like a number or an animal or subhuman that anyone who comes in and looks at them with respect, they're just so they, I feel safe there because. Their social norms.
Mm-hmm. Won't let them mess that up. That's Kristy Dinsmore and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and in this episode I have a very powerful conversation with Kristy Dinsmore, the co-founder of Revolution, a nonprofit organization working with incarcerated youth. To reduce incarceration in general, transition them upon release into powerful members of society, but really to heal harm and build communities.
The work she and her team are doing is needed important and such a powerful reminder that there is so much room for compassion in this world. I'm excited for you to hear her story and curious about what it inspires in you. You can always leave a comment about this episode@thepowerfulladies.com slash podcast.
Before we jump into this episode, I wanna speak to all of you who are currently Googling how to make a career change, how to Start building your own business, or how to avoid Going back to my old job. I am here for you. That's why I built my Thrive membership. That's why I built courses in my other programs.
I really mean it when I say I'm here to help you achieve your dream life. Visit kara duffy.com to book a free call today or skip directly to learn dot kara duffy.com to check out Thrive and the other programs that you can start working on right now. Let's create a custom plan that will actually work for unique you for your unique dream life.
Let's start today.
Uh, welcome to the Powerful Ladies Podcast. I'm very happy to have you. I'm really excited to be here. Thanks so much for the opportunity. Of course. Let's begin. Let's tell everybody listening, who you are, where in the world do you live right now, and what you're up to.
My name is Christie Dinsmore. I live in Venice Beach, California, uh, Los Angeles.
And what am I up to right now? I am running a nonprofit, it's called Revolution. Um, I am that, that's, that literally takes up 110% of my time, to be honest with you. Yeah. Um, but the other, you know, I would say like 10% of of time that I have left, which I know that doesn't equal a hundred. My, my twin sister just had a baby and she lives across the street, so that's.
Definitely forefront of of my mind and, and my experience and sort of like my well wishes to her and, and her new baby.
I love that. Well, congratulations to her and your family. Thank you. Tell us, what does your nonprofit do?
We do like rehabilitative and self-help groups. We started out in California State Prison.
Then as people that we were working with in the prisons were getting out and needing support that they weren't finding readily available, we were like, oh, I guess we should do that too. So, um, now we do reentry support. We're based in Los Angeles and um, fortunately a lot of our services can easily be done over the phone or email or Zoom.
So we're helping people all over the state. Uh, we focus on youth offenders, so that doesn't mean that they're youth currently. It means they were youth when they went into the system. So, um, we do a lot of leadership classes. Mm-hmm. Like self-development classes, victim impact classes in prisons focused on 18 to 25 year olds, which in California are considered youth.
'cause they've, they've decided the brain is very much still developing until you're 25. And we have a lot of people that were like 14, 15, 16 when they went in, but are 40, 50, 60 when they come out. And so they're sort of on the same page where all of them missed all that. I missed all that grooming or that upbringing where they were learned to adult.
Mm-hmm. And so even though some might be 18 and some might be 68, they have a very similar relationship to the world.
Yeah. Um, I think the work you're doing is fascinating. I have a ton of questions, so I think I'll start. Yeah. I loved on your LinkedIn profile that you talked about how passionate you've been about, you know, who human trafficking and the cause of so many of the struggles people have in life are tied back to some core things, you know, what are those core things or events that happen that can kind of predict that things are not gonna.
Go the way we would expect them to or are gonna cause people to be incarcerated or to have just the bad things in life to categorize. It loosely happen to us.
Um, I don't think there's an exact right answer that's gonna be applied the same to everybody, unfortunately, like a little bit of our. Our, um, our DNA seems to seep in there and, and, and react differently to certain, you know, the same situations for two different people, but really I think it's community.
Mm-hmm. By and far, like every, everyone that you see, if you really learn their stories, I mean, people look at, you know, like a, let's say a 48-year-old man in prison as in, you know, a dangerous, strong man that is an adult that should know better and all that. The likelihood is that they were a child or at least a teenager when, when something started or when they were being abused or when they were mm-hmm.
Skipping through foster care or, you know, some, whatever it was that happened to them. And so. It's community. Most of them, most of them will say that they, they didn't trust the world. They didn't know that they mm-hmm. That people could be kind to them. They had a chip on their shoulder, they thought it was them against everybody else.
Um, that kind of thing. And so, really, like, it's the social bond that's missing. Mm-hmm. And so people need a chance to feel cared. They need to feel safe. They need food, they need shelter, they need education. Mm-hmm. And they just need to know that they're gonna be loved and accepted by more, more than one, you know, more than just, you know, a sibling or just a parent, but by, by society.
I think that's such an interesting way to put it, right? Because if we, if we think it's us against the world, we have no relatedness of all of us being connected. Absolutely. And what we have in common. So it's easier to steal from someone or hurt somebody else if you don't know them, because there's no literally no relatedness at all.
You know what, when you look at the population that you're working with. H how common is it that they have been in foster care or that they ha were abused? Like how common is it that there is a at least one source thing that you can kind of go back to and be like, oh, it may have started here. This may have been one of those factors that changed whatever direction you were going in.
Pretty much all of them. It's very rare that I don't, when I don't get down to being, you know, being able to share the whole story. Mm-hmm. Then I'm not like, oh, you know, that makes sense and it doesn't mean that it's an excuse. Sure. You know, I think that that's the thing that a lot of people come across is, well, I had a hard time and I didn't do that.
And that's so true. It's not an excuse, but we don't all react the same way. You know? I mean, like divorce for me, my parents got divorced and I said. Oh, thank God you guys won't fight anymore. Like, no worries, I'm fine with it. It was not hard on me at all. And yet, like a lot of studies have proven that that parents getting divorced is really hard on their kids.
And so to me I was like, what? That's not, that doesn't make sense to me, but okay. Yeah. And so we can't apply the same like that. We would take it the same way as somebody else, but realistically, you know, I mean, most of them, most of the people I've worked with have either real stories of abuse, abuse, foster care, um, poverty.
And or, uh, in, in California, gangs are really prevalent. And so there's just this culture that en embodies a lot of that stuff, but also there's just this culture of being brought up in violence. Mm-hmm. And I think that people have this idea that like, you know, grandparents, grandmothers, mothers are, are naturally gonna help like balance that out, but it's just not true.
I have, I have people I work with that at 12, watched their best friend get shot in front of them and went home and cried. And their mom said, don't you, you know, don't you fucking cry? They put a gun in their hand and they said, go do something about it, but don't you dare cry in this house. And so there's, I think that when we're not raised around that we discount how strong that is around some people and that, and where that leads them.
Yeah. Especially when you're craving community. Yeah. And, and that inclusiveness that, um, you know. All humans want love. So you know, you'll get it where we can get it usually. Right. The path of least resistance doesn't mean it's always the right one for us. And even those of us who absolutely haven't been incarcerated, we have so many examples of just bad relationship choices we've made.
Right? Mm-hmm.
Exactly. And that, and, and to that point, like a lot of it is just who got caught and who didn't or who ended up with a more abusive partner. Yeah. Or a partner that talked him in. I work with a woman whose partner talked her in to helping her, um, go, go hurt his mom. 'cause he was against his mom, but she was like.
Um, he, he, she was a, a victim of domestic abuse, you know, domestic violence. Mm-hmm. And he basically forced her to do it, but she didn't know how to say no to him. And again, it's not an excuse, but mm-hmm. I hear these stories all the time. Yeah. All the time. Um, and then obviously drug mental health and drug abuse mm-hmm.
Usually due to those things are a huge part of it. And, and a lot of men. Our culture doesn't allow for men to say they were abused as readily. It's getting, it's getting better. It's getting easier. Yeah. But it's a very slow path for them. And so like a lot of the men I work with for years and years, nobody knew.
Nobody knew they were having a hard time. Nobody knew their uncle. Uncle molested them. Mm-hmm. No one knew. You know, those kinds of things. And really they were happening. So I think we under count how many people are having a hard time.
Yeah.
How did you get into
this work?
Sometimes, I'm not sure. It's like I feel, I always say I'm chasing the snowball downhill.
I had a handful of friends go to prison when I was like just getting outta high school. Mm-hmm. And, um, they were clearly crying out for help. Most of them, you know, they were good kids. A lot of them were, were pretty smart. They were athletic, they had a lot of things going for them. And their parents were busy.
Yeah, their parents were workaholics. Their parents were, one of them was like the, the mayor, one of them was, you know, they, they were just busy and these kids were like, you're not paying enough attention outwardly. I mean, they, even in court, they were saying out, we were trying to, we were trying to tell our, our parents, if you don't watch us, we're gonna do something.
And it just had this escalation effect. They started out small and no one, no one noticed or worried. And then they got bigger and no one noticed or worried until it was like armed robbery of, of like grocery and convenience stores. And, um, they all went to prison and I went to their court dates, I visited in prison and I, and I wasn't too, too enchanted with the justice system that take, it's like, it, it takes people, punishes them, makes them worse, makes life harder.
And then expects that somehow anything's gonna get any better. And so, um, when I was in just getting outta high school, I discovered a process called restorative justice. At the time it was fairly new in my area. It was in Colorado, but it was just being mm-hmm. Um, integrated into like the, the justice system and the police forces for like misdemeanors where there was like a mediation between victims and offender and.
It was meant to bring about that awareness, that community, and so I got trained as a restorative justice mediator, and my first case was just a teenage boy who had been dared to break into a woman's. Instead of him going into the system, she agreed to do a mediation. And the process is like, whatever the victim needs to heal and whatever the, the offender needs to like learn and grow.
And she was like terrified, couldn't sleep in her house alone, thought all the time someone was out to get her, when's the next person coming? All that stuff. And he was like, it was just a dare, no big deal, you know? Mm-hmm. And so when he was able to see how he really affected her, he was like, oh. Wow, I didn't realize And that, and he was able to grow past, like, you know, thinking that it was okay to do that kind of thing.
And she was able to see that there was no boogeyman out there. Yeah. You know, it's just a teen. And she was like, oh, okay. And what happened is he had to pay for her window and he had to go by every day on his way home from school and check on her to see if she was okay. And they ended up forming a really beautiful relationship that healed both of them and this kid that.
You know, with regard like on a scale of crime, this kid that could have gone into the system and then inevitably would've definitely gotten worse and mm-hmm. Things would've, you know, that's statistics show that he would've gone downhill. Yeah. Um, he stayed out and he, and he learned a really beautiful lesson and so did she, you know, and so I got involved with that.
Um, like misdemeanors, lower levels. When I was young, I was 19 and then I moved to California to go to college and never left and had to reconnect. Took me few years to reconnect with people in this arena here. Mm-hmm. And, um. Once I did, I kind of dove head in and I started running self-help groups in prisons.
And then my, my, my boss at the time, at the first one and I like left and started our own, which is now revolution.
Yeah, no, I love that. We've had, um, two amazing female defense attorneys from Colorado, the Boulder Denver area on our podcast. Uh, so if you want some connections back there and see what they're doing, I'd love to connect you.
Um, absolutely. They come from a very similar place of their defense lawyers because. The system isn't as just as we think it is. And they're really big also on, um, they've done quite a few cases that are, I forget what the name is right now. You, you, I'm sure you're more familiar where they, uh, help prove people innocent.
Like the incident project. Yeah, the project maybe. Yeah. Yes. Um, but we don't, people who haven't been in the system don't realize how many things are stacked against you, even when our system is supposed to be. Innocent or guilt, you know, innocent until proven guilty. It's often the opposite. Um, you know, and a lot of people would say how brave you are for going into this work, because I think so many people are afraid to go into those spaces for themselves and what they might see and experience.
Um, what do you see when you go into, uh, a prison, especially with these young people?
Gratitude by far and large gratitude. They're so used to being treated like a number or an animal or subhuman that anyone who comes in and looks at them with respect, they're just so, they, I feel safe there because their social norms mm-hmm.
Won't let them mess that up, essentially. You know? I mean, if, if not only do almost all of them wanna see us. They want our groups, they want the fun, they want the change of atmosphere. They want someone who looks at them like a human being. Mm-hmm. And so if they were to mess that up, I think even for themselves, that would be terrible.
But the, the community would just like, they'd be out. You know what I mean? Yeah. And not necessarily in a good way. So, um, it's gratitude. Yeah. I feel totally safe inside there.
Yeah. I remember reading an article about how they removed the ability to give hugs. In prison and touching and what a negative impact that had.
Has that changed? Is that still the policy and, you know, what do you know, uh, about how important physical touch is, even if it's holding someone's hand when they're in that situation?
I
can only
speak for the California
state
prisons. Mm-hmm. Um, they can touch each other a little bit. I mean, there are rules against getting too close, but I, I definitely don't see those being enforced.
I've seen, seen, you know, two people who are incarcerated definitely go up and give each other a nice big hug. Yeah. Um, I'm definitely not allowed to, and I've, I've gotten, uh, in trouble for, for, um, shaking hands too long. Um, so there's that too. Um. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm tempted to like, uh, revisit. There's a story of a, a, uh, an experiment they did on, um, chimpanzees, I think it was, or, or like monkey babies where one they fed but they never touched it.
They had like a bottle it could feed from, but they never touched it. And the other one they never fed, but they cuddled it all the time. And the one that got cuddled but not fed, actually lived longer. I think they repeated that many times and found the same results. And it's just like the studies they did of a lot of like, um, children, orphanages, rush and stuff like that, that were, they wouldn't, they were getting sick.
They wouldn't survive unless somebody came and held them. And that's why, that's why they looked like volunteers to go to the NICU and hold babies and stuff like that. And these guys. Yeah. The people that we work with inside are starved for some sort of love and connection. I, there's a lot of dog training programs, which are really cool because there's not, there's no rules against touching the dogs, which is nice.
And at least it's another living thing. Yeah. And um, I watched a man who had been incarcerated 30 years pet a dog for the first time in 30 years, and he just broke down sobbing like uncontrollably in that moment. And so, um, as someone who, who I personally know that I can't go very long without a hug or touch to like ground me in my, in my life.
Mm-hmm. It's, it's so, so important and they're definitely lacking it.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting emotional just thinking about like, not being able to touch my own like dog. And, you know, we, we just had a, we were dog sitting for a friend who fosters service animals before they go to the prison to get their real training.
And like, this dog is so sweet and loving. Like, I can't wait to know who's gonna be her trainer because you can't not be loved by this dog. Like, it's impossible. Um, you know, I, I wish that there, are there things happening to. Make the prison process more humane.
Absolutely. They're, they're baby steps, you know, I mean, it's a gigantic bureaucratic system, and California is a huge state with one of the biggest prison populations in the country.
So, yes. And it's, it's gonna be slow for either the first or most common thing that's going on in California is the, the movement for youth offenders to really take people whose, who are still developing, who they, they essentially see their brains as moldable. Mm-hmm. And instead of sending 'em into the system, they're sending 'em through a lot more diversion, mentorship.
Um, the ones that are in prison or, or do have to go to prison, the California State Youth Offender Program, um, sends them to a prison that's one level lower than their crime normally would've required. Because every level you get higher, like the higher security. Mm-hmm. Then the more dangerous, you know, the, the bad, the worse the influences, the less programs they have, the less movement they have.
So every time they can stay outta the system or go lower in the system, it's better. Mm-hmm. And they're having mentors like guys that have been in there for a long time that have sort of performed and they become, I call them the stage ones because they've done so much self-help. They're just like, they're so solid and they're so wise and they've resigned to like, figuring out how to live a meaningful life.
Even though most of them have life without parole, they're gonna die in prison. And they, they pick these guys to mentor the youth and they're turning, there's, there's something called the Norway model. It's been very, yeah, it's, but you should I encourage everyone to look it up if anyone has any interest in this area because Norway's um, correction system has shown to have really great results.
Essentially, like the, the population is safe while they're there. The staff are safe while they're there and their rec, the recidivism rates are like the lowest in the world. Um, and they're super humane, like to, to most of the world. We look at it like, what do you mean that's punishment? That's like you're giving them a, a nice place to live in their own room and they can wear their own clothes and they go to work and they have a full kitchen.
And, um, but it's because the whole point is those people that are disconnected from their sense of humanity, they're, they're teaching them what it feels like, how to be pro-social essentially. Mm-hmm. And so, um. California is starting their first youth campus and they're saying they're trying to, to mimic the Norway model.
And it's still far from, but it's a really good ode to, um, the movement that they wanna be making. And so they're gonna try to send anyone who's under 25 there and treat it more like a college campus. Like they want them to go to, to classes, they wanna make sure that there's like readily available, um, vocational training.
Mm-hmm. Because a lot of that stuff, even if you, if you read about it, it, it'll say that it's available, but the reality is. The classes are always full. The instructors never show up. Mm-hmm. You know, people that it, they're not, they're not well managed, to be honest with you. And so a lot of the things that, um, on paper, the correction system might say it's doing, it's just really not.
Yeah. Um, and so they're trying to make sure that this, this one, um, prison that's set up for youth is like really? Really well set to actually like, um, administer and, and run their programs like that in a better way for the youth. They're going towards the youth first. Yeah. And I think as that starts to do better, they'll start to, um, translate to more facilities.
Do you know the percentage of, of youth, uh, in prison versus adults? So over 25 versus under.
I don't, you know what? I probably should, but, um, I think it's more about who are youth when they start. Since most people, once you start the recidivism, the recidivism rate is like through the roof. It's usually like above 80%.
Um, and almost all, I mean, literally it's above 90% I know that are all start as youth.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because it's, that's, you know, it's the same time that we start doing anything bad, right? Yeah.
Yeah. And it's when like, you know, a lot of our. Our emotions and our, and our desire to claim our own space and to want respect or to want mm-hmm.
You know, to build a life, but without necessarily all of the checkpoints that, like we, we learned with our maturity and when our, our hormones settled on a little bit and all that.
Yeah. And, and just not. Just not even knowing what we're supposed to be doing with ourselves. I mean, for crying out loud. Yeah.
Most adults I know also don't know what they're supposed to be doing with their lives. They just know, you know, preferably not to do that by committing crimes. Right. So.
Right, right. They just figured out some certain, certain systems or places or, or groups to get by with. Yeah.
Yeah. And, and I think as well, when again, with that not yet developed brain.
We don't always assume that people mean what they say they mean. Like, is it really that bad? Am I really gonna get caught? Is it there's, when we think we're invincible, we think all the other rules are, are a little bit fluffy. Um, and the, the, I know, I the consequences are fluffy. Yeah. Right. Um. What is it?
So on a day-to-day basis, you're going into the prisons, you're, you're doing classes, you're doing workshops, you're also doing them virtually, probably, especially now with COVID. Yeah. Um, what progress are you seeing? Like, are, is it just you, is it a team? Like what does it really look like when we see revolution in, in work?
Um, that depends. In prison, it's a lot more structured 'cause you have a captive audience, you have a room, a date, and a time that has to be pre-approved. Mm-hmm. You know, all of the, the facilitators or volunteers are pre-approved and so that's a lot more structured and, and that's cool 'cause it, it works well that way.
Mm-hmm. Um, outside is like, it's so messy and it's, you know, it's because there are a lot of services. I would say it's a lot like, um, I dunno if anyone understands Section eight housing in California or like, you know, a lot of the, the social services that are overwhelmed, you might not be able to get anyone to call you back, that kind of thing.
And so there are a lot of services for people coming out more and more all the time right now, to be honest with you. Um, there's been a lot of funding diverted towards that and towards just like really specific ways. Mostly like transitional housing, making sure that people go from prison into transitional housing, um, before they're just released to the community.
And that's usually for like the longer term offenders. Um, but, or like sober living or, or rehab if they had, if they had a drug, drug problem. Um, but I think it's, it's, again, it's a lot like that if people have a sincere commitment to what they're being hired to do because there's money in it. There's a lot of people that are.
Signing up to run transitional houses or sober living houses or groups. Mm-hmm. Um, for the sake of checking boxes to, to earn a paycheck. And what we have found at Revolution is that someone teaches a workshop on financial literacy and everyone shows up for four hours and watches a PowerPoint, and then they've, they're like 46 and spent, you know, 36 years in prison and they go.
Well, you know, essentially you be foster care like that, but in the system and they walk out and they go, I didn't understand a word of that and I have no idea where to start with my own life. And I think even a lot of us that, like I have a master's degree and there are times when I go through an online, you know, signing up for my, my EDD when I lost my job for COVID, right?
I had a night job bartending. Um, I, I, I did it wrong the first time. I had a hard time. I got denied. I got denied. And they said, you filled out, you know, this and this. And I said, oh, that's not, that's not what I meant to do. I guess I answered that question wrong. And I have a master's degree. And so what we've been finding, finding by and large is expecting these people to just be able to go through like a pamphlet or a, a Zoom workshop or like something in a group and then apply it to their life.
It just doesn't work. And so our philosophy has been that it has to be, it has reentry, has to be personal. And almost everything we do is one-to-one. We have community events, community building activities, hikes, barbecues. We're gonna the beach next week and doing surf lessons. Very cool. Um, and that's all designed towards helping that pro-social, like how do you join, what does it look like to have a normal life?
And go do things with people that are fun and they aren't, you know, dangerous or illegal. Um, but other than that, almost everything is one-on-one. Someone's schedules, you know, an appointment or a zoom and goes, I need help with this. And we go, okay, let's dial in together, let's fill this form out together.
We're gonna make sure you get it done. Yeah. And so it's a, it's very labor intensive instead of being able to, you know, say, yeah, we, we served 30 people in one workshop today. Takes me 60 hours to, to serve 30 people.
I, I think a lot of people don't get the difference between sharing something with someone and then being committed that they get it with someone.
And I love that that's the work that you guys are doing because making sure we can make all the things, but just because we made it doesn't mean anyone Got it. And I love your example of the Financial Liter Literacy course because I, I do a lot of business based education or habit based education, and I have to remember to start at step negative 10 because even people who are, you know, high level professionals.
Don't know what we know. And, you know, um, I have friends who are very active in casa, the court appointed, uh, special advocates for foster youth
and they did great work.
Yeah. It's like I'm, it's one of the best organizations that I've had the chance to interact with. And they have this great example of a, of a, a foster kid who got a job, was doing great and his, and you know, Casa went to go talk to him like, cool, how much money have you saved?
And he's like, well, I haven't gotten paid. And he is like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, I get these, these pieces of paper, but like no one's giving me money. He had no idea what a check was. You didn't know how to go deposit it. Exactly. And so I can so see someone who's 45 doing a financial literary class not even knowing what the definitions are and suddenly you're, we're giving them, we don't realize we're giving somebody, you know, the equivalent of, of AP bio when they just needed to know like, what is science?
And we're, it's, it's, I see it all the time, even in. You know, higher level, silly things like how to even do Instagram, right? But these core fundamental skills that people need, we have to remember to start at zero, which is part of why I love, and I don't know if you've shared this with anyone in your community, there's that great YouTube channel, um, uh, Hey Dad, or Ask Dad, where a dad made all these videos about how to do really basic things that he would tell his kids so that other people could learn it.
And the, the comments people leave of like, no one ever told me how to tie, tie a tie. I was so embarrassed to ask. I'm an adult. I have a degree, and I'm so glad I had your video because now like I had a safe place to go learn that and not feel like an idiot.
Absolutely. And you mentioned the key word, which is a safe place.
Mm-hmm. Because I, I find, you know, even like I said with the workshops or the service providers when they say, yeah, we're supposed to offer that or teach that, you can ask me, but if they don't trust you, and a lot of them don't trust. They don't necessarily trust, um, you know, the, the staff at their transitional houses, they don't necessarily trust, you know, case workers, social workers, they definitely don't trust their probation officers or parole officers.
Um, and so we've been really good at building, um, a relationship that, that fosters like safety. And people, people will ask me anything and I, and I'm like hesitant almost not to share because I don't wanna, I like, I feel like there was no that I'm talking about them even, but you know, from like, you know, honestly, if you're, if you're 40, 50, you've been in in prison since you were 14, a lot of 'em are coming out like the 40-year-old virgin, you know?
Mm-hmm. And they have that, there's so much stigma and shame around that, and there's no one to talk to. Um, and so, you know, from that to, you know, getting a job to. Some of them are doing great and really, but then they're, they're in their job in the way it's been two years. And I, I think I need a, a raise or something.
I'm, I'm making minimum wage and I don't know how to ask for that. And they, you know. Mm-hmm. It's just like, okay, well here, here's the, here's the, here's the questions you ask. You, you have to decide what your, what your bar is, what your limit is, what you can do, what you're worth, and mm-hmm. And what else you can do.
You know, you don't wanna be claiming the whole world and then. Quitting when really you, you can't find another job just like this. So, you know, let's decide where's your, where's your bar at? Mm-hmm. And then how do you walk in and say like, look, this is what I need. Um, and so it's everything.
It's just everything.
Mm-hmm. You know? Well, and it, it opens up to the whole world of everyone listening. Like I have a whole course about sharing your knowledge. Like people don't realize how much we know that somebody else would love to know. And this just is more validation that there are things, everyone knows that somebody else doesn't.
And it can sound so silly, but like, why not see who, who needs that help? Like I, I, you know, I, the closest equivalent I have to this, you know, telling of the people you work with. When I was 26, I moved to Germany and I felt like a five-year-old because. I could handle things, but I didn't know how to do them in that culture.
I didn't know how to order food or you know, do the grocery store. Everything was different. The rules were different. Like the, the unspoken rules about like, do you bring your bags? Do you not bring your bags? How close do you stand in line to somebody? When do you wait? How do you pay? Like, all the things were so different, and it was such an out of body experience to feel like I was five years old again.
Luckily in that situation. That's expected. So there are people there that could help you, but we don't realize how, um, so many people deal with that here in the US all the time, whether it is immigrants or people coming outta jail or veterans or even the elderly when there's so much technology changing.
Like you get cut off so quickly and you, it's hard. It feels hard to get back into it.
And it's, you actually described it perfectly because I always tell people, I warn guys when they're coming home from prison. Not to see themselves as like deficient, but that they just move to a new country. And I tell them, if, if I move to China tomorrow, I would feel the same way that you're gonna feel when you go home next week.
But it's not because I'm deficient, it's because it's just a whole new culture. Like you, you, you define in this culture. It's just a whole different culture. Mm-hmm. But with regard to some of the stuff like, you know, techno, if we've been out here, we all have some exposure to technology. We all have some exposure to some of the norms.
Mm-hmm. We have some problem solving, some adulting, some like foundation to stand on. Mm-hmm. Um, that they have in their own way. But yeah, when it comes to technology and stuff, there's really just none. And so. Um, I would say it's like, yeah, it's like being dropped in Germany when you're 12. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, and and I'm sure as well there's like that whole element of like, what they don't know, they don't know.
'cause they don't even know it's there to ask about it or that they should know. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, there's even,
yeah, and then there's that embarrassment. Like, I'm a grown, you know, I'm a grown up and. How do I tell somebody? And then, and then there's also this thinking like, well, if I tell somebody that I don't know how to use a cell phone, they're gonna know I was in prison.
'cause the only way I don't know how to use a cell phone is because I was, I must have been gone. You know?
Yeah.
And so they also feel like they're like outing themselves.
Yeah. Well, I, I hear more and more about companies that are really committed to hiring, hiring people who have been incarcerated. Do you see that shifting, or is it still really challenging to get back into the workforce?
Um, I'm not sure because I, I'm hesitant to not praise good work for those that are. Mm-hmm. Um, I definitely think in certain circles it's, it's, it's, it, again, it's baby steps again. It definitely is, but lit a little and probably not nearly enough. Um, the majority of the people that I personally see hiring people who are formerly incarcerated are usually like service providers and their friends.
It's, it's people that are close to this issue already, and then it's bigger corporations that get a tax break. And so, um, I'm always hesitant not to talk for other people. I can't tell you what their motivation is. Yep. Um, but there is, I know that amongst the people that are getting out, there's a lot of feeling like the only jobs that they ha they can get.
Are the entry level minimum wage sort of jobs that, you know, like, um, a big corporation wants to give them and that it's because they get tax breaks. They, in California, you get a tax break for every formerly incarcerated person you hire. And so people do question the motivation. Mm-hmm. Like there's not a lot in meaningful, well paid, you know, support yourself as an adult work that someone coming out can find.
Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be a lot more entry, hourly, minimum wage. Yeah, definitely. Um. When you look at who you were when you were eight, would she ever imagine that this is what you were doing today? Like, are you surprised with where you've ended up?
I'm not at all. No. I think, I think when I was 10 I watched a human Traffick movie with my Vic or having trafficking movie with my mother and looked at her and I said, one day, I am gonna help those people.
I just have, and my mother's an activist. Um, we lived in a small town where there wasn't a whole lot of, uh, politically connected like things to do. When we went to war in Iraq, she marched up and down Main Street by herself with a sign. Um, like I think if people didn't know her, she'd think she, they think she was the town crazy, but she's just always had an, a gigantic sense of, um, advocacy and justice and, and needing to speak out for what she believed in or for other people that couldn't speak for themselves.
And she raised me to be that way. So. I think, um, it's just always been in my bones. I've always understood that there was injustice in the world. I've under always understood that we were all better together. I've always understood that I wanted to be a part of community building and whatever makes us stronger as, as, as humanity, you know?
Yeah. And the work you do is of course. High emotionally taxing if we let it. And there's always, especially working with underserved communities, sometimes you mentioned falling, uh, following a snowball downhill. I'm sure it also feels like pushing a huge rock uphill at the same time. What do you do for yourself to make sure that you are at your best so that you can keep showing up for this community that needs you?
Um, two things in my personal life. I have a great community. I have a great community of people that, um, are really eclectic but are all very okay with having real discussions and we have a lot of real support and we also have a lot of fun. Um, I think that being able to play and not take ourselves too seriously is extremely important for compensating for the stressful parts of our life.
And I'm lucky that I have. Um, a, a, a network in my social life that is, is really fun and really outgoing and really adventurous. We try new things all the time. Um, and that really feeds me. I, I'm an extrovert, people feed me. Mm-hmm. And so in the same light, um, my work feeds me. COVID has been really hard because when I sit in a workshop, when I sit in a circle, whether it's one where people laugh the whole time or cry the whole time, and actually it's usually a little bit of both.
Like that feeds me. Um, when people say thank you, when someone says, oh, I learned something today, or like, wow, I, I'm walking outta this room feeling better than I came in. Like, that feeds me. And so for whatever we have to do in the office or interviews or our paperwork or our taxes or our fundraising, um, all of my actual like client centered person to person work really feeds me.
Um, COVID is really hard because of that. It kind of turned into mostly just computer work and sending in correspondence packets. And I've seen that throughout my, my field with a lot of colleagues and, and other organizations that not being able to do the, the person to person work that makes all the hard stuff worth it really, really weighed down a lot of people, myself included.
Mm-hmm.
Yep. You mentioned your mother before. Who are other powerful ladies or humans in general that have inspired you and supported you on your path?
Um, Axelrod is one I had. She was actually, when I,
this woman, anyone who knows.
Was just so stood so strongly in her own two feet and, you know, spoke her mind so well, but so articulately and, um, she definitely was someone, I always was like, wow, if I can, I can feel as powerful as she can and not like over others, but just so, so confident in my own self. Um, I have a lot of good friends.
My girlfriend, her name's Keegan Keegan and me, she's, um, Anna, Anna recommended me to this podcast. I have, I have some really amazing women that are like. They're, they're designing their own lives, and more than that, it's just the way that when I talk to them or when they show up, there's always something curious.
Mm-hmm. There's always something loving. There's always something willing to work harder. And when I see women that are doing that in their own selves, that motivates me to do it for myself too.
Love that we ask everyone, um, on the podcast where they put themselves in the powerful lady scale, one being average, everyday human, and 10 being the most powerful lady that they could imagine.
Where would you put yourself today and where would you put yourself? On average one is your average human being. Oh, I blame zero. The average human being usually
zero. Zero is the average human being. Wow. So, so the average human being is like the bottom of the powerful ladies scale? Yes. Yeah, I would say that, um, honestly, I feel like a five.
Pretty, pretty, pretty consistent Five.
Yeah. Love it. Um, we also ask everybody, you know, we talked about powerful ladies who've inspired you, but when you hear the words powerful and the word ladies separate, what do they mean to you? And does the definition change when they're combined?
Well, I don't think it does because the power, to me, powerful means feeling comfortable in my own skin.
It means being comfortable in my own voice, being able to set my own boundaries, knowing what those are, and no feeling totally okay with claiming them. Um, you know, being okay with saying no, being okay with, um, loving the things I love doing, the activities you wanna do without, you know, reading the books you wanna read, the food you wanna eat.
Mm-hmm. I mean, I, I had a conversation, it seems so trivial, but with my dad recently he was visiting and he saw someone eating alone at a, at a restaurant. He said, do people do that? And I said, why not? You know, I mean, like, who cares? Why would you, why should you feel ashamed to eat by yourself? Maybe you wanna read a book, maybe you need a breakthrough, whoever you're around, you know?
Mm-hmm. So to me, being powerful means being totally okay with doing any of that, all of that, whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Um, and the word ladies, for me, you know, I've had a love hate with that my whole life. I grew up kind of wanting to be a tomboy, trying to prove that I was as tough as any guy and could keep up.
Mm-hmm. And I hated pink, and I wouldn't wear skirts. Now I love pink and I love skirts, and I love my dresses, and I love feeling like a lady. Mm-hmm. And it's, um, I guess it's just because I've learned to own more of that part of myself, but now I just feel like I have all of it. Like it's, I'm more diverse.
I always say I feel like a chameleon, like, you put me in any environment and I'll be fine. You know? And so, um, I don't see a reason why a lady should be any different than any other guy or any other person, but mm-hmm. Um, I guess I do understand that for some people. Feeling ladylike might not be in their, in their wheelhouse or their comfort zone, but, um, yeah, it, it's so interesting.
I'm kind not sure if I answered that or not, but that's what I
got for you. You did, you did. I, I think it's really interesting how. You know, ex uh, every woman who's been on this podcast has a, a very distinct perspective of what powerful means. It's pretty consistent, but the ladies part is the one that everyone has a very different approach to.
And you mentioned so much. It's about either how we were raised or how we were told what we could, or couldn't, or shouldn't do, or vice versa, or, you know, what, how that word was introduced to us. Absolutely. And how that's decided something right. It's even a, a phrase that I have, have struggled with because I just wanna talk to interesting humans, right?
Who are up to things that are making the world a better place. And so, of course I cheat every once in a while. I have amazing men on here. 'cause I can, because you know, I, I I podcast my rules. Right? Absolutely. But we've been keeping the, oh, go ahead.
Yeah. And I think, um, it's something I, we're, we're, we're in social justice and so it's not just, um, incarceration, but a lot of, you know, the addressing people and knowing their pronouns and that kind of a thing.
Mm-hmm. And, and we see a lot of people that. If they go, oh, well you can't say she. And I know a lot of like transgender people that go, no, I worked really hard for a, she, I wanna be a she. I don't wanna be a they, I wanna be a she. You know? And so, um, it's just, you're so right. It's, it's, it's so individual and it's how we're brought up and it's what we want.
It's how we see ourselves and, and, uh, we each get to do that however we want.
Yes. Um, it, it, it's so true, right? And. I had a really profound conversation with a friend of mine who's from Peru. 'cause I was like, you know, should we change the name to like powerful humans? And he's like, you can't. He's like, as much progress is being made in California or in the US or even Western Europe.
Like it's not being made elsewhere. And he's like, please keep it in this space. Like have the bigger conversations, talk to other people. But yeah. Until everyone knows that it's possible, like please keep it. And I thought that was so interesting to come from a a male perspective and especially from a place that's traditionally, you know, Latin America's known for the machismo approach to life, right?
So it was really touching to have him remind me that. It's not, it's not as move forward as we think it is, which of course keeps coming up. In the past, um, past couple of years in particular, when, when you look at women in the system versus men, like, do you see differences in how progress is being made or how they're, what access they're given to being reintegrated into society?
Well, there, there's a lot more men in the system than there are women. And so, um, good, good or bad? I guess unfortunately there's a lot more services, like anything that has to be segregated, like transitional housing or that kind of thing. Um, there is a lot more services for men than there are for women.
Mm-hmm. Um, but you know, there are a lot of things, there are a lot of services and events that are, that are open to both as well. Mm-hmm. Meet different, different stigmas, you know, I mean, I think, I think, um. Uh, meetings, you know, workshops and stuff around this, that as bad as it is to be a man that comes outta prison.
A lot of people understand that more, they understand that men are more aggressive, they understand that they might have done A, B, and C or gotten in a bar fight. You know, I think people start to like develop a scenario for themselves. Um, and women who have been in prison are looked down on often socially, like even more, like while women aren't supposed to fight, women aren't supposed be aggressive if you went to prison.
Like, like what got, what was wrong with you? You know? Mm-hmm. And so, um, they do find that they face like extra social stigmas.
Yeah, it's, it's interesting. And of course I just hear an opportunity, right? So anyone listening who wants to help that group, go do it. 'cause you know, they, there's a missing, then there's somebody who can fill it,
and there's ne there's never too many of us.
Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that that's, there's a lot of other people feel, there's a lot of competition and that's, that's because funding in, in a nonprofit ward, you're always competing for grants and whatnot. There's never, there's never, we're never full of good intention or goodwill, you know? Yeah. There's always,
yes.
And speaking of that, for everyone listening who wants to support you or get involved or follow you, what are all the things you have going on and how can they do that?
Um, anyone who happens to be, um, in one of the bigger cities in California. Sacramento, the Bay Area, Fresno, San Diego, Los Angeles. There's definitely, I mean, because like I said, reentry is personal.
We do a one-on approach in those stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, it's almost like a buddy program. Anyone who's in like. California's bigger cities like Sacramento, the Bay Area, Fresno, Los Angeles, San Diego. Um, because reentry is personal, we're always looking for what I, I, I deem them like buddies. Just like an adult who's willing to be a checkpoint for someone who got out that can call and ask about just basic life advice, maybe vent a little bit if they're having a hard time.
But, um, then, you know, if they have, if they're trying to see how do I talk to my boss about A, B, and C or is it normal or, you know, do women normally, should I call this person or not? Yeah. Um. We're always looking for buddies. And then anyone who does have the, the life skill is good at teaching financial literacy or computer literacy or, um, even literal literacy math skills.
I mean, we have a lot of people that come out and they dunno how to read or write that well. Um, but basically anyone who has a skill, I mean, I think that's, that's why I never know where to start it and where to end it. Anyone who has a skill, an interest, or a passion. Um, we definitely have people that can benefit from that.
If nothing else, it's just that life exposure. And even more than that, it's the knowing that somebody else cared to, to share that with them. And that goes so far. Um, so anyone who wants to come to a community event that wants to hold a workshop, that wants to be a buddy, there's, there's endless room for that.
Um, we have, we have one of our most amazing events. We have a.
Over, over, like learning to get in the ocean and overcoming your fear of the wave and getting up and um, is like one of the biggest ways to harness any of your negative energy and to turn into something positive. And it's one of our biggest like successful events of the year. People go home just on cloud nine.
Um, and again, just like a great community building event. And so he's just like, I love to serve. That's what I can offer them.
Like I said, it's, it's hard to know where to end and where to stop, uh, where to start and where to end because it's all welcome for sure. Mm-hmm. Um, I started working with Anna because she, she's an art therapist
for people who have skills, for people who wanna help out. Where's the best place for 'em to go and connect with you or how to get in contact with you?
We're really easy to reach by phone, email, or our website. Um, so our phone number is (323) 391-8351. Um, our, our email, we're small. We're small grassroots organization, so the email, literally our whole staff gets our info, info at revolution group com. Um, revolution is two E-R-E-E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N group. And, and i, I set it up.
I didn't know, to be honest with you. So it's, it's info at revolution group com for our email, but our website is www revolution group.org.
Perfect. All right. So everyone can find you there. Are you guys also on social media?
Uh, we do. I hate social media. I'm not gonna lie. I have no part in it. Um, or our, our, our Facebook is either, um, revolutionize at Revolutionize is our handle, and on Instagram it's at Revolution Group.
Um, we're trying to make them the same one where like my, my partner and I both. She's older and I, I hate social media, so we, like a year in, finally got an administrative assistant who's younger and does it for us. But, um, I think they're supposed to be the same, the same handle or the same would be better.
One day we'll fix that, but for now, that's what we got.
Perfect. Um, as we're wrapping up for the day, um, how can, like what, what golden nugget do you wanna leave people with, whether it's. Just something you want people to know, a quote that you love. Like what, what would you like to pass on to everybody listening in The Powerful Ladies community?
Hmm. I have two quotes. Um, and I, and I, they're not just quotes. I think they are, they, they embody everything that we've been trying to talk about and everything. I hope if we can internalize these things in our hearts mm-hmm. And act with them like in every moment, every day, then the world would be such a better place.
One. I'm probably gonna miss it a word or two, but one is Martin Luther King, and he is my hero of all time. Um, that there's a little bit of, um, darkness in all of us and a little bit of good in all of us. And the moment that we can really realize that is the moment that we can all work together, we can all live together.
And that's, that's, I love that. And so true. Um, and then. Now that I said that quote, I'm forgetting my next quote. Um, so maybe we'll just leave it at that.
That's perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking time to hang out with us, for being a Yes to. Powerful is. I'm so glad that Anna connected us. I'm so thankful for the work you're doing.
Um, thank you for being a contribution to the people who need it the most and giving people a chance to have a second chance, like a real one, not just one that is lip service. So thank you for the work that you guys are doing.
Oh, and thanks to you too, both for the opportunity to be here and share our work and just to hear about your own, like insights and connection to it, because you're obviously well educated and well versed and, and and really care a lot.
And so thank you for everything you're doing and spreading, spreading the work of all the people that are doing such cool things.
Thank you for listening to today's episode. All the links to connect with Christie and Revolution are in our show notes@thepowerfulladies.com slash podcast. Then you can also leave comments and ask questions about this episode. Want more powerful ladies, come follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, where you can also find some free downloads to start being powerful today.
Subscribe to this podcast and help us connect with more listeners like you by leaving us a five star rating and review. If you're looking to connect directly with me, please visit kara duffy.com. I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. Without her, this wouldn't be possible. You can follow her on Instagram at Jordan K. Duffy. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you taking on being powerful in your life, go be awesome and up to something you love.
Related Episodes
Episode 172: How CASA Volunteers Are Changing Foster Care | Regan Phillips & Nancy Eaton | CASA of Orange County
Episode 236: How Contemplation and Activism Work Together | Carroll Dunham | Anthropologist, Explorer, Author
Episode 282: How 1 Woman Built a School, Adopted 93 Kids & Changed the World | Maggie Doyne | BlinkNow Foundation & Between the Mountain & the Sky
Instagram: @reevolutiongroup
Facebook: @ReEvolutionize
Website: www.ReEvolutionGroup.org
Email: kdinsmoor@reevolutiongroup.com
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
