Episode 173: A Powerful Conversation Series - Racism: Has Anything Changed? | Ronda Brunson, Chandra Gore & Lauren Wilson | Roundtable Panel

What’s changed in America since the racial reckoning of 2020? In this unedited roundtable episode, Kara Duffy brings back three powerful women, Ronda Brunson, Chandra Gore, and Lauren Wilson, for a follow-up conversation two years after the first “A Powerful Conversation About America.” They dig into whether racism has changed, how it continues to show up, and where real progress has or hasn’t happened. This episode is raw, real, and urgent. It’s about listening, learning, and staying engaged in the fight for equity. Share it widely.

• Show Notes

  Ronda Brunson @msbrunson_creditqueen

  Chandra Gore @cgoreconsults

  Lauren Wilson @ltwilson and @shopdoramaar

  You can find me on instagram @kara_duffy

• Transcript

  Follow along using the Transcript

  Chapters:

  00:00 Has anything changed since 2020?

  02:10 Introducing the returning panelists

  05:00 The emotional toll of repeated conversations

  07:40 Signs of performative allyship

  10:15 The difference between awareness and accountability

  13:30 What progress looks like in real life

  16:20 How racism shows up in entrepreneurship

  20:00 Equity vs. equality

  22:45 Kara reflects on what she’s learned

  25:15 The role of white allies in 2022

  28:00 Systems, gatekeeping, and access to power

  30:45 How the media impacts the narrative

  34:10 Why we can’t let this be a trend

  37:50 Rebuilding trust in the fight for justice

  41:00 Action steps for real change

  43:30 Staying powerful, even when exhausted

    Hi guys. Today you'll hear a special edition of The Powerful Ladies podcast. This is the live unedited recording from our round table, a powerful conversation about America, racism two years later. Has anything changed? This episode took place on June 10th, 2022, and was planned and promised two years ago when we had our first edition of a powerful conversation about America following the killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor.

  Two years have gone by in a flash and it was time to check in and ask, has racism in America changed? Has legislature law or statistics changed since then? How is racism or progress showing up, evolving or hiding in plain sight? Our panelists include the amazing, Ronda Brunson, Chandra Gore, and Lauren Wilson, powerful and successful women who have been part of our previous episodes on racism in America.

  We encourage and invite you to share this episode with everyone who needs to hear it. This conversation matters for our democracy and our future.

  If I got to choose who I hang out with on a Friday afternoon, it's gonna be you ladies, because you are powerful enough to big things and you show up with big smiles. And you're not afraid to have conversations about all the stuff a ton of people are avoiding talking about, which is why we're here today.

  So for those of you who dunno who I am, I'm Kara Duffy. I'm a entrepreneur and business coach and creator and host of powerful ladies. And I have amazing panelists here with me today who have all been guests on the podcast individually, have all been guests previously as panelists on our special series, A powerful Conversation about America.

  And those topics have ranged, we focus on racism and women in the workplace. But we're coming back because it's been two years since the murders of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, and since a lot of things have shifted in this country from an awareness perspective, if nothing else, and we committed way back then that we were not gonna let this conversation stop happening.

  Because it's so easy for it to come and go and not be something that is on people's radars. Without further ado, I'm gonna let my panelists introduce themselves and we'll start with Chandra.

  Okay. Good afternoon everyone. My name is Chandra Gore. I am the principal consultant and a founder of Chandra Gore Consulting.

  I'm also the host and writer at Conversations with Chan. I'm excited to be here because so much has transpired in two years, and we definitely need talk about it and be straight about exactly what's going on. So I'm so glad to join you ladies today.

  Yes, thank you. And then Ronda.

  My name is Ronda, but they call me the Credit Queen.

  For the last 18 years I've been preaching, teaching the credit gospel. You all who will listen, I'm excited to be here. I have a lot of information and experience when it comes to racism and lending and redlining. So I'm here for the whole conversation. Thank you, care girl. Thank you.

  Welcome. And Lauren.

  Hi everyone. And thanks Kara for having us back at I'm like racing through my mind of everything that's happened in the past two years or hasn't happened, or lack thereof. So I'm really excited that you are having this conversation. For those that don't know me, my name's Lauren. I run a luxury e-commerce resale site called Domar.

  We're based in New York City. So a lot of my past few years has really been about having equity and building a company and building that generational wealth and what those, what's been happening over the past few years and how that's shifted or not shifted the landscape.

  So really excited to dive into those topics today.

  I'm so glad to have you here. A lot has, and as Lauren said, hasn't happened in two years. So I just wanna know first question is, do you guys feel like anything has moved forward in the direction that it should? And I appreciate the skeptical, immediate look from Chandra.

  Chandra, go ahead. I know you're bursting at the seams. Go for it.

  So I'll say this, I feel that a lot of pation has happened. And a lot of perform reformatory things have happened that haven't made any real change. Then we have people being gunned down and murdered just while they're shopping. And the media.

  It's just, it blows my mind at the amount of, oh, that's a one off. Or, oh, that doesn't, it's exhausting, but I've seen it personally in in business in, in business. Like I've been approached by different companies to sit on their to sit to, to partner with their companies, but not give anything, not to make, not have a voice.

  So it's let's go ahead and get rid of the monotone the what we have and add some color and make it look like we are being inclusive, but we want you here, but we don't want you to say anything. So I feel like that has been the. The ongoing theme of since, for the past two years is we will allow you to come to the table, but you have to sit at the kitty table and shut up and, or just look like a

  beautiful beton ad.

  Thank you.

  That's it. Yes. In the background. You or, you could stand it's just, it's draining. So that's what I have to say. I'm sorry. My face says exactly what I think sometimes.

  So with the plications John, are you referring to the red velvet cake, ice cream and the all of these things that the stores are doing to try to, lemme tell you something, I get with my friends for being too hard.

  I feel like they're trying, they're missing the mark. You know what I mean? But they are trying now, they could use a better direction, of course, way better guidance on the back end. But I do applaud them for at least trying to make Juneteenth an official holiday stores and stuff so that it's represented.

  I think that their execution is poor.

  If you look at the makeups of these comms and marketing departments, there's nobody there that can say, Uhuh, don't do that. You're right. You're

  right. Yeah.

  I was gonna say, the biggest change I've seen is in marketing campaigns, let's say that, right? Like especially looking at luxury fashion, like there is this, there is just such a performative aspect.

  Like I remember back in June, 2020, everyone was releasing, how many black people were in executive level roles, are the board members, like, where's that gone? I haven't seen that. Of any of those boards over the past two years. And I say that just because the past couple years I've been raising, looking to raise venture capital and capital from outside sources and women get 2% of venture capital and women of color get like 0.6% of venture capital.

  That it's absolutely insane. And I think that I get a ton of meetings right. But I think when push comes to shove. The makeup of VC and investors that have the money to invest in are just older white men. And as much as they performatively need to change and have their portfolio be people of color, it's just this inherent bias that still cannot shift.

  And it's going to take more than acute marketing campaign to, to shift that or, panels or discussions, which are all great and helpful. But I can't think we can say in the past two years that there's been like a real shift in black founders receiving more capital or, women of color receiving more capital.

  And that really is what shifts a lot of the equity, right? I think it's, I think it's people trying and taking a conversation, which is better than I guess what it had been. But is it really moving the needle yet? No.

  So there's, so many topics in the news right now that. I would argue the majority of Americans are so over it being a conversation, they're not being a solution that's not just being fixed. Matthew McConaughey said, and when he was on in Washington the other day we are not as divided as you're making us think we are.

  And I don't know if that's true or not. Everyone I talked to seems to be hanging out in a very similar space. And what's making me crazy is whether we're talking about Roe v Wade or gun violence or police brutality, you name it. Everyone keeps trying to make it not a racially motivated conversation. And I, it's, I feel like I'm hitting my head against the wall being like, how can you say Roe v Wade is not a racially motivated conversation.

  How can you say gun violence isn't? Is that, being the privileged white girl, is that me being naive or silly or it's making me crazy that they're not seeing that there's a red line going through all of this that no one seems to want to talk about collectively.

  The whole, the Roe versus Wade situ like that is I'm trying to get the words so I can articulate this in a way that is professional as possible, but it's targeted towards lower class individuals, brown people who are in areas where, you have to, they're already struggling and yes, it, the people, you know what I'm saying? As families, like sometimes it's a family and you, it's penalizing them for living their lives, but also it's keeping them from making decisions that will help them to grow. You may not want a baby now, but you may want a baby later because you are working four jobs just to maintain and which what They're supposed to stop sleeping with their husband.

  I just need some, and then if you have, and then you look at the access to to protection or the access to healthcare, a lot of times there's no, no real doctors that can, they can get to have access to that can help them. The family plan that help guide, on how to better, take care of their health because they have to choose between work or the doctor.

  And then if they can't get access to reproductive care, they're gonna take the way out and somebody's gonna die and family gonna lose their bread. So it's,

  it's easier said than done. Oh, just protect yourself. Okay. They don't have access to the what, to talk about the they may have issues, they may have other things that need support with, but they don't have access to that support. So it's definitely targeting, it's definitely the biggest people who are, the biggest section that are going to be affected are the lower, the black and brown people.

  Let's just be honest, because if you have someone who's an upper middle class Caucasian family, they can drive an hour, they can fly to different places to get the care that they need and be able to get these things because they can afford it. Even if they're not affluent or whatever, they still have the resources or they can call in these resources.

  And so that's, it's it's penalizing people for being born a certain color or born a certain way and then not providing them with the healthcare. 'cause I just feel like, certain neighborhoods, they don't even have fresh food, they don't have groceries. Like it, it's all a ripple effect.

  It's like food deserts. And you expect people to not live

  their lives. Like what do you want them to do? Can I just pose a different question? So we do this we go the government's way. Who is going to raise these babies? Now if these babies end up in foster care, we know it's more brown kids in foster care than any other race.

  A lot of people who are not minorities are not willing to take minority children. So now what happens to them? I don't, I just don't understand what the endgame is. You have the baby. I'm telling you. I'm not in a position to raise it. Who is gonna raise it? And then you have more abused children.

  One of my friends is a foster parent, and he got an emergency placement of a little boy. His, he was displaced because his grandmother was a abusing his sister. She was not allowed, she didn't give her a room. She has no bed. She has no food. She treated him like a king, but her, she treated like trash.

  When people have these ideas of what this kid is. If they don't like it, they abuse it. And now we have a whole nother issue on our hands. So I don't, I just cannot, I can't clearly understand the end game. What do you want me to do with this baby?

  Yes. And then when you ask for help, like some of the kids that are in foster care, and this is the ripple effect.

  They age out at 18. They're left with no support. So my question is this. You're creating a cycle of individuals that go into homelessness. They go into desperate situations. So you're trying to say for 18 years, oh, we're supposed to look the other way. Oh, now you're a plague on the government.

  You're, and I'm like, damn. Did we try to fix this Like before, before we got this far? Exactly.

  It's, can you guys hear, can you guys hear me? I dunno if I'm frozen or not,

  because I look

  frozen.

  Can you hear me? You're frozen, but I can hear you.

  It's men who are making these decisions.

  People who don't even have a uterus. I just make that make sense. I just, yeah. Yeah.

  I think it's interesting that you say that I'm helping a Ukrainian family with six children. So there's two parents, six kids, eight adults. They came from the Ukraine early April. And there are just like, finding services is crazy, yeah. I think I was gonna, I was gonna got here, but now there's nothing, they're not supporting them when they're here, which was really eyeopening for me. Totally. And that's why I think, you talk about the Roe v Wade and then gun violence, like you force someone to have this child and now there is zero protection, not even protection in terms of making sure their FS secure or education.

  Yes. That sort of thing. It's like literally being gunned down, right? Like where's the protection once these children are born. And again it's not qualitative, it's like literally data of that this. Lower income, black and brown people like this isn't something that we're just like qualitatively saying, it's in the data.

  And I mean it's, there's so many ways you can talk about just how rife with issues this is right now.

  And to leading into the redlining and the access to loans and other resources. It's just another example, as you were saying, Chandra, of preventing a family from leaving wherever space they are that they wanna move on from.

  Like your

  con Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Not even just not leaving. We can't even sell. I'm sure you all saw that article in the interview in CNBC where the couple was trying to sell their house. When they represented themselves as black people, they got offered 10 times less. When they represented their house as white people.

  It got 10 times more with the appraisal. So I can't even get fair marketing value. I was looking at doing a HELOC and I went next door and asked my neighbor, would you mind coming over? I'm gonna take all my artwork work down because, and she got so sad. She said, what are you talking about? She never saw the article.

  I said, no, this is a real thing. And a person of a minor, brown person to try to sell something, it'll give you far less. And actually, I'm in the market for a new car. I'm thinking of letting my neighbor take the car because I'm getting local. I know it's not in the market right now where everyone wants to buy a used car.

  They don't have any cars for sale. They're offering me 7,000 less. I bought the car in November. You know what I mean? So it's, all of that plays into the back and they look at you, they sum you up a braids this week. Who knows if I would've had my hair out and a bob and walked in with some real clothes on, they might have treated me different.

  But the nation that we live in does sum you up. They summarize you in 20 seconds by how you look. And if you don't look the part, if you don't speak the part, especially a brown person in financial to tell you what to do with your money, they don't listen. It doesn't you automatically lose your credibility.

  And

  that's been the biggest thing. 'cause I saw this thread on Twitter where this young lady gave her white friend her sales and data and everything, and she got, $15,000 or 25 some astronomical number in funding for her business. And when the, when she went to go get funding for her business, they gave her 7,000, I think it was $7,000, some of number that wouldn't even help her.

  Bottom line. But the person who had no business experience, no nothing, no knowledge of anything, but used her numbers, used her like, listen, if people don't understand, like this is a real

  thing. Like I could go off on this for hours. This is my, I literally have a business that is at a million dollar run rate and I cannot get funding the same way a white dude with a baseball cap that went to Stanford can get $3 million and have not one customer, not one sale.

  Like it is absolutely mind boggling. And it's not just me. 'cause I just did an event with these three women of color who started this mezcal brand and they're like, it's absolutely ridiculous. And then you end up, there are a lot of funds who are like trying to represent like underrepresented founders or women of color, but then you end up putting, there's so few of them and then they end up having a lot of pressure on them because.

  They don't have to just like your business, right? Because you're both black women. But there's so few of them. There's so much pressure on those to make the change because the white guys aren't doing it, they're not making the change. Ugh. It's just, it's a really vicious cycle.

  And it those, when they open up, like Cosmo has this thing, right? How many black and black women are applying for this? So it's they it becomes, they only are picking 10, 10 businesses. Yeah. 10 black women on businesses. 10 out of how many, like how do you narrow it down?

  It's like a it becomes a hundred games, pretty much. Who's gonna get the funding? And it's yo, like it should not be this hard. It should not be, they, we, they only have a certain amount of funds and they can, they can't allocate it to everyone, but it just, it blows. It just, that's why I don't really seek funding.

  I actually, and bootstrapping it on my own because if I didn't have credit lines, like I do have thank you Ronda, for the tips on credit. I do pay attention. I'm able to use that as a and that's the thing. We have to get, seek our resources from inside of our circle to sustain our businesses.

  And I wanna be able to walk into into a bank with my sandals on and little t-shirt and shorts and come out with a couple million, no, I'll be set outside the bank.

  That's what these do

  though. Like truly, I'm not like,

  like it's, I mean I feel like it's a sore spot for me just 'cause it is, has been my life for the past two years.

  And now Chandra it, it really is like looking inside more of like my network and my circle on how to build it and how to fund it because it's a fricking good business and I'm not gonna sit here and wait for some, white side to believe in me. No. I don't mean to laugh, I'm just No, I mean you sometimes have to because

  it's pretty wild. It was a book I read one time, it was called Old Money, an old Money book. Talked about what you basically described coming in places t-shirt, khakis, sandals, and it works. It does not work for me. So even when it comes to interviews or one of my last business cards, I had braids.

  That was a big deal. I was afraid to have braids on my on my business card because I didn't wanna be prejudged. Unfortunately when it comes to lending they know who you are before you even walk in the door. The way the algorithms are set up, how Facebook software that Metaverse is connected to everything, they know exactly who you are.

  They know who your friends are, and they make decisions. Based on that, I wonder, I think that there should be a study on how many brown people are forced to file bankruptcy as a result of starting a business. Our bankruptcy as a result of starting the business, you carry all the load on your own.

  The first business loan I got was as a result of COVID. I'd been in business already for 12 years, so no one had ever offered me anything and I never asked because I was already under the impression I was not good enough. And then also. The way that minorities form businesses is different. So when we start with our heart.

  We build businesses in our heart and we design them that way. We don't build businesses outside of ourselves. We're not necessarily thinking, okay, I gotta hire this person. We're really planning to go to work every day and then get there. You making money. You're like, okay, I got this. I'm gonna hold it.

  Now. You wanna finance something and you don't have a paper. You know why? Because you built your heart, not with your brain on your accountant. So you have to go back, do all those things. You find out later, you've made over hundred thousand, your deductions are low. Now you owe the government 80,000. You know what I mean?

  So it's such a cycle. Even when you watch how who's the Amazon guy? Bezos. Jeff Bezos. Yeah. He don't pay no taxes. Why am I paying taxes? Why are you at the small businesses? Leave us alone. We're doing our best with the bigger the corporation, the less they pay us. Little guys trying to make it in the.

  Just take everything. Just take it. Just go ahead and just send

  the invoices to take your payment. Send it right to the camera. Yeah. And this is the thing, like I have a client who she's a accountant, but she's also studying the tax code and studying to be a tax accountant because her biggest thing is supporting other black businesses to understand how to navigate using your tax, those tax benefits, those tax codes to benefit their business so they don't file the bankruptcy.

  So they're not using their personal capital to fund their business. And I will say it's a mind blowing, the number of people that she's actually went through went back on their taxes. And when I hear her talk about it, I was like, I could have been one of those people. It's one of those things like you end up owing 70,000, like you said, 80,000.

  Listen, I'm, listen, y'all just gonna have to find me. I don't guys,

  it's stuff out here. There's a book I'm reading right now called Proximity and it's talking about how who you know and who you have to talk to get what you need is so important. And on a very simple level, like I, my parents just moved to North Carolina and they're redoing their like estate plan and Will and their investments.

  And I said, they're like, oh, we're talking to someone. We're doing this and this. I go stop. I'm like, I want you to talk to somebody who works with people here in Orange County. 'cause they're playing a different game and this is still, white family, it a white family. I'm like, no, like you don't know all the information.

  I know you don't because of you're not using things that, there's not a keyword that popped up in this conversation where I'm like, yes, you're on the right track. And it's crazy to me how, it's also why I do what I do. There are people who just, there are simple things that are in our, in everyone's way, that don't have to be, and it absolutely is happening more for people of color.

  It is absolutely happening more for women and it's like there's this secret code of like how you can optimize living in the US and making it all happen that no one wants to be talking about. There's a couple people I follow on YouTube who are sharing, people like Rodney who are sharing there's secret, there are people who are willing to tell you what to do and not do and look for, but it is it is just, I do not understand why we make it so hard for everyone to chase the American dream, if that's what we say that this country is about.

  Can I just say this? I don't know that conversations of course, about racism are never going to stop. However, I do think we're in in store for a major pivot. I don't think the big thing is gonna be black and white. I think the big thing is gonna be rich or poor with the way that the economy is shifting.

  I happened to move into a neighborhood last year. I bought a house. It was $350,000. My white neighbors have been so nice to me. I was actually afraid 'cause when I first moved to Miami, people I experienced extreme racism. Living here in Fort Lauderdale, these people have been amazing.

  I, I've named the people across the street. My dog's, grandparents, they're so sweet to me. But they still have old values. The majority of the neighborhood, a hundred percent of the neighborhood is all homeowners. Most of them have been here for over 40 years, and so they've seen their property values go up.

  My house I bought for three 50, it's now worth five 50. If we continue to go, gas prices continue to go, and food prices continue to go, we're creating an income divide that is gonna be more static racism, and now how we are gonna be looking at people, even our own complexion is gonna change, crime will change, accessibility, change as Chandra was saying, with even the medical the hospitals in the area, all of those things will continue to change.

  And I think that will be more of the conversation moving forward, not just racism, but now we're gonna have huge inequality in income and economics.

  Yeah, I agree. Lauren, how have you seen that discrepancy between the haves and the have nots shifting in New York City and how have you seen it impact your business being in a luxury space?

  Yeah, I think like from the city's perspective, just from COVID and also all the BLM movements in summer 2020 like I'll be honest, there is a shift in the atmosphere in New York, and it's not the same. I don't know if it just has to do with the sparseness of, there's just not as many people here anymore.

  But something it's not feeling settled at all. I think people are very much on Edge, whether it be what Ronda was saying about, this looming kind of recession and economic change where, the inflation and I really, I do agree with her. There really is this ginormous shift between the rich and the poor and the have nots.

  Right now guys in New York City, like a Brooklyn apartment, a studio, the average price is $6,000 a month, $6,000 for Brooklyn. Like it is absolutely obscene. How expensive the city has become. And it only continues to rise. Look, I don't think I have an answer yet because I think we're in the thick of it right now and as a luxury business, like what does that really mean and who are we speaking to and how are we including people and what is that, what is the value of luxury now? I think it's something we wrestle with all the time, and I think it's something I wrestle with as I try to, raise capital as well.

  Like what does that look like? And it doesn't, it's not always as well received by a lot of the higher ups that the haves. And I think, you talk about network, right? I think when you're talking about raising capital, whether it be through venture or bank loans or whatever, it really is all about those warm introductions, right?

  And being a part of the right networks. How are you a part of the white networks if you weren't part of the boys club at Princeton, right? So access to those networks is. Something that is already guarded. And I I look, I went to a great school. I went to USC for undergrad and went to N NYU U for grad school.

  But these are still like blockhead circles for me that are, very elite male dominated circles. And the true halves. And it becomes quite difficult for a founder like me and a woman like me.

  I'm stuck on a 6,000 a month. So what does this property include?

  What's girl this and how many people can, like I just, I be what? 6,000.

  You get a studio, you get a toilet and a shower you probably don't have laundry. You may or may not have a doorman. No roof. No pool. Like you guys, it is so crazy. But what, like it's, I don't even know who lives here because I know.

  It's like leasing people.

  Yeah. Yeah. And people, apparently buildings are taking like apartments off the market purposely to skyrocket the available ones. I don't, there's a lot of lot going on with the rental market. It's pretty bad.

  I do, I There's gonna be a lot of shifts in where people live and where they're doing things, because to your point, Ronda, like those of us who have the luxury of being able to move, like those of us who like mobility is gonna become something that we have to look at just for the sake of surviving at this point.

  And there's so many people who can't, which I think then ties, the entire conversation also into environmental issues. You like it, it blows my mind. Every time you look at where there is a dump site or the toxic farm or whatever it is, it's always in a community that no one wants to hear from.

  We don't care what you guys have to do with and I just. Everything that, that is on the hit list of things that people care about, it's their, the base impact person is always a low income person of color who's going to deal with it general generationally or in the short term.

  Yeah. And something on that, like obviously being in, in, in fashion sustainability is like a huge conversation in the industry, but you never hear what you hear about.

  And the greenwashing that happens is like the ocean, the forest, the Amazon, which is all super important, but you never hear about the people it's affecting, actually, like right now, who are the communities that are struggling the most from these issues, right? That's never a part of the sustainability conversation in fashion.

  It's buy a thrifty thing because you're saving the environment, but who are you saving? What are you saving? It's never talked about. Because it is lower income families that aren't given that. That part of the new cycle, essentially.

  Lauren, it's funny, one of my girlfriends owns a resort where?

  Boutique in West Palm. Yeah. And so I travel literally like every two weeks I go to an island somewhere. And I'll go in fashion Nova order, bathing suits, mat collection, diva Boutique. She comes in ordering fast fashion, you killing the world. I'm like okay. Because she says, you're fashion, you only wear it one time.

  You, you give it away, whatever. It ends up in the landfill. The kids who are making, getting paid, she's given, guess what? I would've never heard that if she wasn't my friend. I never considered, I was just like, okay, I can change my clothes real quick. But yeah, so it's, it comes with that, the knowledge and the insight.

  You may not know people, we just dunno.

  Yeah. Yeah. Knowledge is, it's power, right? And I think the industry's trying to make a change, but sometimes I think it's not sometimes always, it's so powerful when you put a human. Space to that. Who who it's actually affecting. And in ways where they, they can't lead the life they should because they don't have clean water or, whatever it is.

  Yeah. Yeah.

  I'm I have three children and this is I'm going to be personal and I never talk about my children. No one, I don't post my children, but my oldest will be 20. And we have had that conversation. And we, like most, and I'll say most black families do not live in multi-generational homes.

  Everyone doesn't stay together. They end up, everybody gets kicked out of the nest. And I think that is something, a cycle that has to stop. And I'm I for one, because I was raised by my granddad, so I didn't have that. I didn't, he didn't want me to leave. I left because I wanted to be independent, but I could have still been living with my father right now if he was alive, but my children.

  I have this thing and I tell them, I don't care how financially stable you think you are, you will not leave my home. You will not leave our home because things outside of we will make it work. Because like my son is well on he's saving, he's making sure it's credit was great. And I say, I don't care how much money you save, I don't care how great your credit is.

  You can buy a property, but make sure you, this is your, this is home because there's no reason for individuals or or, I've seen so many kids, so many 18, 19 year olds end up homeless because the rule was, you're 18, it's midnight. Get outta my house. Like what? You just, they're children I think, I mean they're children until they're 25.

  Let's stop that. That is something that, I don't know, maybe it's just a black family,

  but I. I have a client who has a $600,000 pre-approval and wants to buy in Howard County, Maryland, Howard County, Anne Arundel County county. They are overpriced and we're in a market where one of my girlfriends bid on a house that was 4 25, she offered 5 0 1 and she only won the bid by 1000.

  So that was 76,000 more than what they asked for. So this client has your mindset. These, my babies, they gotta stay with me. They can't. In your house. You know what I mean? Like the house that you wanna buy, that's 600,000 will only be two or three bedrooms. So now what do you do? You don't wanna put them out.

  Guess what? They might gotta go, maybe they should buy their own house. They can live together. But for you to try to find that space at that value, right now, it's not normal. It's not. It's not the days of the past. You can find it in other areas, but certain counties you cannot do. It doesn't work. Okay? I'm staying here in staff of Virginia.

  Okay? I'm the country. I'm from the country. I'm gonna stay here. We gonna buy property back home in South Carolina. See, I know where my dollars can go. Okay? Right when you said Howard County,

  but I would never live because that is the most over plot price. Milky County

  is getting that way too. No. Every, everywhere. It's everywhere. And so the house I was mentioning that one was in Owens Mills that she bid 76,000 over my little tiny house. This house is only 1300 square feet. It has a pool, says from 7,000 square feet of land, and it's worth $550,000 just because it's 15 minutes from the beach.

  The house up the street just sold for 6 40, 1400 square feet. It doesn't matter. Houses are price based on location. So you have the right idea of staying in the country. Those prices are not gonna go up as fast, but anyone that's trying to be in the mix, they're gonna pay for

  it. No I was raised to look at that 'cause I did the, I made the mistake.

  I, I got rid of a condo that I bought in Myrtle Beach when I was 18. And I'm regretting the decision to sell back then, because the equity I bought it was 9,000 and now it's six months.

  I don't even wanna about exactly. The power of real estate. But yeah, what you're saying makes sense.

  Most across the street from me, my neighbors are Mexican, I believe, so talented. They do everything, they fix my roof, they mow my lawn, they do everything, but it's about, their house is the exact same floor plan as mine. This is only three bedrooms. They don't have a pool. They extended the back of it.

  They all live together. It's about seven cars at night parked out front. They are happy and they're rich, and I'm poor. You know what I mean? It's the way that you set your life up. Yep.

  It's something that's not

  talked about all the time. It's, there's so much of chasing short term rewards and not thinking about long term.

  There's that other book about being a good being a good ancestor, right? How there, there used to be cultures that thought. Five generations out, a hundred years out, like whatever, like really made choices for how do we keep the legacy going? And there's not a lot of legacy conversations happening and the people who are having them are the ones who have had them this whole time.

  And so they're fine. So there's this big breakdown. But to pivot the conversation a little bit, there it was announced that the police officer in Grand Rapids is being charged with murder for shooting a black man in the back of the head at a traffic stop. That's right. And it's shocking right now because it's the first time it's happened so quickly and they just said, yes, that's what it is.

  It's like not controversial anymore. That's how it should be done. How is anything changing in the police system? Is anything changing in the justice system that you are aware of or seeing at a local or national level?

  I'm just gonna throw this out there. I'm from Baltimore, excuse me, I'm from Baltimore.

  I'm from Baltimore. And and that show we run the city. I haven't seen it yet, but the stories I've heard about it and a few of my friends are actually, their characters are featured in the show. I think what it did is it opened the eyes up to maybe police aren't all good. We already knew.

  This just shows you how this operation went on for so long. It impacted so many people. One of my girlfriends was telling me that, I think it was my aunt was mentioning that the police stole the drugs that belonged to the boy and because he could not pay his bill or give the drugs back, he got murdered.

  Yep. They set him up all the time. This is this might be new to people that don't mean this is old news, honey. We've been on that. So it's just what it's, so that's why honestly, even at young, younger ages in our community of a three of a police car shows up. A kid is three or four, they may automatically start crying.

  They already have a distrusting image of the police. So I can't say what's happening here because I'm just an implant here. I'm a nobody. But I do know that in Baltimore there's been a lot of reform to try to warm the community back up to the police. And what they should and should not be doing is spend more accountability there.

  Recently one of the rappers awarded 300,000. One of the police officers featured in the movie Adam incarcerated. He went to jail. Jail. He was found guilty. All they gave him was 300,000. But he did get something. But it's not uncommon. Police have been fighting drugs and all that stuff for years.

  And that's the thing, especially here in Stafford, like now we do have more community outreach. We're seeing them now and more in the community because even though this is a rural area, it's a rural area, so you know like certain families have been here for generations. They maybe have blended.

  But there's still a divide of, does the black family over there, when the police come, they're gonna arrest them, trust and believe they're gonna arrest them, and they're gonna leave y'all alone. And it's that kind of a situation. And it's like we all I, I've had the conversation with my children.

  I've had, I've seen the conversations that have happened even in South Carolina. It's a known thing. Like you have to watch yourself, make sure you don't travel by yourself. You get pulled over. Everybody in the car. Is everybody good? Everybody got id Even though you could be sitting in the back seat or the back of a van, they don't have no one else is gonna be looking at everybody else.

  Everybody has to stay ready. Why? 'Cause you don't know what the temperament is of the officer that's pulling y'all open. Especially if y'all more than three deep, that's a game. So you can't even be comfortable in traveling. And it's in our mindset. Like when I'm traveling with my children, two of my boy, my youngest son is the tallest.

  He's six four, he's 15 years old. He looks, they would classify him as a grown man. I was like, this is a baby, but I have to watch as he walks around, I was like, listen, you don't, you're not small. You're six four. You it there, there's nothing I can do to change that. But they know the protocol.

  Be ready. Make sure you don't move it. You just stand still. Even if you stand you, you damn. If you, damn, you don't, I'm just saying, you can't even stand still because you get shot still. So it's I think, yeah.

  And I think in New York, like the past couple weeks, I'm sure you guys have been reading about some of the subway shootings that have been happening in New York City.

  Yeah. And the police were not the ones with the one in Brooklyn where no one miraculously died. Shot up a subway car. And a civilian found him like in front of a bodega that was like three blocks from my apartment. This was back in April. A civilian captured him. This guy was charging his phone in McDonald's and then walking around the East Village and a civilian caught him and poured them to the police like two or three days after.

  And then another person was shot in the subway, like point blank, and a civilian like negotiated with the shooter to come out and give himself up. So there's this idea right now in New York City where there's been a distrust of the police because people are obviously seeing what has been happening especially to black men.

  But now there's this whole now we have civilians essentially being the ones to protect the citizens that need help at this point. Really there's this idea of accountability. And I think, this obviously is like with Valdi, like what happened with the police there, right?

  There's a whole investigation into why, people that needed protection weren't there when it was needed. And out of these tragic situations, like there needs to be a real deep dive into how do we make sure that, police are there when we need them to be there.

  Because there are situations when that needs to happen and situations like in Michigan where it didn't need to happen. So where is that accountability? In Buffalo, New York? In Buffalo, New York, there's another one.

  They knew that this person was plotting to do this, right? There was a, if y'all could go and take down a post, because somebody said a word that, you know what I'm saying?

  They can say things, you all can, they then they know these people are planning these things. If you can put someone in Facebook jail for saying something that's like it's a joke or something, but you can't tell me that you didn't see this man plotting and saying he, the whole manifesto or whatever he wanted to do weeks and months in advance.

  So you're telling me that you can't pull that

  information. People. Yeah. Lash. You know what's so funny about your point? I went to call someone an asshole on a post and they said, are you sure you wanna say this? Because this could violate our policy. Yes. I put in Facebook jail. In jail because I said

  You were acting like I as and I got put in Facebook jail.

  I did 20 days in jail, y'all. Oh my god. Facebook jail. They done locked me up because I said, you acting like a ass, but you, but this man could plan a whole massacre and he's not caught and they patted him on the back. I'm, listen, that's the domestic terrorists. That's all I'm gonna say.

  These are domestic terrorists walking around and they're feeding them Burger King and they're patting them on the back. I'm still not comfortable going to places because of that, because you don't know who's plotting on they. If you see a lot of black people going somewhere, brown people going somewhere.

  I already feel uncomfortable because you don't know who is wanting to come out and hurt that group of people for what you drove all the way here and targeted people. You saw a white person and to have the video. Okay, y'all, I'm sorry, I'm about to get real upset because these people can be stopped, but we, there's no bill to protect black and brown people.

  But I've seen other bills come in, come and be signed in the law. When is, okay, I'm gonna wait five. Don't gimme a

  bill though. I would just like a little bit more humanity. Sometimes I, it makes me so emotional. If I see a TikTok where a black kid is being assaulted and a white mother steps in, it makes me so emotional.

  But I really feel like we need more of that if we just look at each other as humans. Because a bill is gonna be something that we have to depend on later through the court system. But in the moment, someone could stand up for me and say, yo, that's not right. Don't talk to him that way. It makes a big difference.

  Ronda, on the subject of humanity. I think, and maybe Carol will get into this, but one of the most upsetting things over the past two years that I've seen is school shooting down teaching critical race theory and what that means, because in my opinion, the only way, this is a generational change, everything that we're experiencing right now, like it's not just gonna change in a few years.

  It starts with children understanding when they're little babies like how to be humans, no matter what people look like and understanding the experiences that black and brown people have gone through. It starts at the education level. And so when I see that ripped apart that breaks my heart because I'm not a mother, but I want to be someday and to understand that like my child, will be around children that don't understand this sort of thing, it makes me wonder how are things ever gonna change if we're not even teaching?

  Education is the safest place to, to learn and grow.

  This is more vocal about what they plan or don't plan to teach in school. But I think it had already started happening anyway. Most of the black history I ever got was from my mom, she made me go to the African American history museums, read books, I had to write book reports.

  In the summertime, all of that comes and it starts at home and in black church. So as long as you keep giving your kids social outlets. They can learn and they will learn through you.

  But it's not even about the black kids. It's about the white kids really about them understanding. Just taking them to Blackford.

  But

  they had been stopped teaching them anyway. You remember the governor, the Cotton remember this in Virginia? Yeah. He's crazy in black days. His wife and took the kids to go pick back. And I was talking to my girlfriend because she was pissed, and I was like, wait a minute.

  My people get a different history lesson than us, they're taught that we're indenture, not, I'm just telling you it's the truth. They, I know. I, and usually when you tell 'em, they be like, Ben, for real, that happened. They were unaware. So I have a sensitivity for people who legit did not know.

  I don't have a sensitivity for ignorance. I can't give you a green white. But

  We can change that now. We don't have it can, we can start to teach everyone in this country what it meant. I think I get upset when it's like we now have the opportunity to change this and we're still fighting against.

  Knowledge. And

  battling that ignorance it. The thing is that I, we, I was, I used, I sit on, I watch the board meetings here, and I am, because the first thing I ask people is when they over against critical race theory, define it. Tell me exactly what it is. Because if you can't tell me exactly what it's, because it thought on the college level and it's, you know what I'm saying?

  Stop, it's like a buzzword. Let's be real here in Stafford, I can say there we're not even, I met individuals who are part of being excluded from schools because of color. They had one high school for white people, one high school for black people. And these gentlemen, they these five men and one woman, black woman, integrated and they, the school got upset.

  Mind you, I'm meeting these people. These people are still here. You know what I'm saying? This is in this time, lifetime. So my thing is they, I feel like those who are against teaching, the things that have happened in the past are embarrassed. And they don't wanna acknowledge the fact that their grandmother that's sitting right now, knitting was one of the people that was spitting on children as they were walking into school.

  And so I think that a lot of times they are, it's uhuh. We don't want, we don't wanna be held accountable for our actions. Get over it. No. Let's talk about it. Why did you feel it was okay to spit on a child that they were walking in a school? Why did you feel it was okay to make a child feel like they're less than?

  Why do you feel like you chose in from the south? Why do you feel like you had to? A grown man had to say, yes sir, and no sir, to a child. And give that child respect or, and then that child does not respect that person. Like all of these things need to be talked about and needs to be said. Because one thing that, it's not that they didn't know that people don't know slavery existed, but they wanna repackage it so that no one, they don't feel bad for the situation.

  They don't feel empathy for those individuals who went work from sun up to sundown, and did not get paid. Or their land was stolen from them, their families were stolen from them. The time from these mothers who, had children to go and nurse children that grew up to hate them. So this is the thing no one wants, that's something that nobody wants to talk about.

  The wet nurses, that nurse these same children that grew up, that hate the one person that fed them and nourished them. So that's the, that whole situation, I just, that educational part you have to talk about. And because it's so demeaning and it's at times they don't, no one wants to discuss it because it's embarrassing and it's sick, and they don't, no one wants to

  be accountable for that.

  Do you think that, I'm sorry, Karen, go ahead. No, go ahead. You go. My question is do you think generation generationally, so if my great grandmother was a slave master, not me, but, and throughout the years her family has improved. Like she might have gone to her grave with guilt.

  You know what I'm saying? I, I don't wanna be, I just, and this is gonna sound ridiculous, but I don't wanna be so whole hardhearted to believe that everyone that was acting that way wanted to. Sometimes you do what the crowd does. You know what I'm saying? I'm, because the crowd is doing it.

  In, in families. I can understand a family not wanting a child to know the history because the child who is liberal liberated now to challenge the grandmother, you can't challenge your grandmother. So some of the stuff I get, I understand, not nationally, but I understand from a familial aspect why some things are not discussed because it would change that child's perception of who their family is.

  Now you're gonna deal with an enraged child out on the street that's gonna develop some type of mental illness, and it could come out in a different way. I think that we have opportunities to teach. I think that we can continue to do discussions like this. I think we can open it up to little kids and ask them.

  What do you think, what do you like blue? Agree person, do you like? I think it's ways to break it down in a way that they can can be palatable. But I think that when you go into some of the harsher stories, I can understand the concerns at times as to why that can't happen. I get it.

  But I do feel

  not having the opportunity to make those stories palatable for children. Yeah. That's where they wanna nip in the, but I'm like, you can actually break it down because children and this is, they're resilient and they have more, they feel more than we think they do. Sure. They can tell you if a person has a good heart or not, just, and just by introducing them.

  So for them to say, oh, that child be influenced. No, children are well aware and they are more aware than we are. Okay. So teaching them and having them, they will get it. They will continue to love without seeing the, the color and all of the, you know what I'm saying, that they will be able to love I know this person's different, but I still love them.

  They're just like me. They bleed just like me. Like it,

  I think it's having empathy, not shame, right? We shouldn't shame a child for their background. It's not their fault that they're. Grandfather was a shithead, whatever, it's not the kid's fault, but like to, to feel right as a human.

  That was really wrong the way a group of people had been treated. And I wanna have understanding for this is the way things are now and be and sympathize with that and help this group. That's what I mean. To just whitewash over it and pretend like it never happened. Yeah.

  Then you look at a group of people and say like, why are most low income people, black and brown people are they just dumb? There's a reason why a group of people has been oppressed for so long and let's understand those reasons so we can work to change it. And I think one interesting point, I was just in Brazil recently and I did not know much about Brazilian history.

  Oh, slave cul slave culture was huge there. Obviously it didn't end until like at 1880 something and one of our tour guides, this is a little bit of qualitative story, but he was mixed race like me, and we were talking about racism. In Brazil and racism in America. And he was like, yeah, it's not good here, but one of my friends went to America and oh my God, he could barely walk down the street.

  I think he went, I think he said he went somewhere in the south. That might play into it as well. But it was just really interesting to hear someone from a totally different country, our work. I had never been to America, and just the stories that come to him about racism in America when he's living in a country that is also heavily racist.

  The favelas are people that are either of, African descent or mixed race, not the European, Portuguese looking people. So it was just, it was really interesting to Cubans go the same thing. Yeah.

  And I think we have a great example when we look at what Germany did after World War ii and how they just were like, Nope we have to talk about it whether they wanted to or not. We have to talk about it. And there's a, in Nuremberg where I lived, there's the documentation center and you hear stories of grandparents. Talking about like you mentioned Ronda, like either I, I did or I didn't know what was going on, or I didn't realize what was happening or the shame they feel and the guilt.

  And there's something on the human level about showing that people can be good and bad at the same time. And people can change and people can learn. And like when we don't talk about the complexity of human nature and what, why people made the choices they did at that time, whether they were good or bad or if they've changed or not.

  We don't give anyone space to evolve themselves. And I think because we're not having this conversation at a bigger level, everyone's getting put into the, you were bad or you were good camp. And it's not, there's no freedom in that for people to talk about it. One thing that really scares me about statistics that are coming out is, and this actually a piece of this came out from the January 6th committee conversations, is that the rise in groups that are in conversation about the replacement theory that's happening so that like white people are being replaced in America, which is a complete it's nonsense and it's just hard to address.

  I, I was in the Mountain Film Festival in Telluride and we had a whole discussion about is document is democracy dying and what's happening? And it was, they were talking about the rise of proud boys, the rise of other groups that are popping up. And they did a whole study recently about in New England how fast it's growing at a scary level, which is where I think it's I'm like, how can this be happening?

  Like it's in the northeast, there's so many universities. But so much of it does tie back to where people are getting their information or where they're not. Okay, go for it. Go.

  I don't mean to laugh. I gotta understand. Yeah. I'm one of these people some of the thought processes are so ridiculous.

  You have to laugh. And then one of the leaders of the proud voice is of mixed race. Yes. And I'm like, sir, are you shooting? Half of you like, what, how are you compartmentalize? And who you hate in yourself? Because it makes no sense. But the whole replace who is coming up? Are they rolling the dice?

  Let's figure out how are we gonna do this? Let's roll the dice and figure something stupid out the day. To me it's mind boggling. Of the theories that come out and all of these things. I'm like, who? Like they're taking our jobs. Who is they? Yeah. Define they and what jobs did they take from you?

  Did you apply? Are you qualified? So these are things that make me, and it's probably why I don't have the discussions with so many people. 'cause you're not gonna get through because it's, I dunno. I just I don't know. And they call themselves the proud boys. Proud of what

  it's such a dangerous theory though, because you have people who are not well, like the buffalo shooter, because I'm pretty sure he was the believer in replacement theory, right?

  Yeah. Yes. That was part of manifesto. Exactly. So it's it is incredibly dangerous that it's pervading right now, because that is something that many, like sick individuals will, do exactly what just happened, right? Yep. It's, but like what you said Chandra, like who are you replacing?

  Did you apply for that job? Like it's just, it is this fear mongering and this othering that is just it's incredibly dangerous

  because. It's not rooted in reality. It's rooted in, oh my gosh, something is being taken away from me. What is being taken away? Yeah. Explain that to me. What are you losing?

  And that's the whole mindset. And it's not, I'm not saying that it's upper class individuals, it's more of it's that mindset of poor, lower income individuals who have that mindset. Mind you, this party is not for you. They're not looking out for your healthcare, they're looking out for you, but you're doing the work that they that, you just,

  but this is historical, right?

  This goes back to like it's slave days, right? It's lower income white people who were essentially like, they weren't same boat, they weren't owned by anyone, but they were basically in the same boat, or like when slavery. Slavery was over and you have the great migration and different ethnic groups moving to big cities and getting jobs and.

  It's, this is like pal's old as time in a way, but it's much more dangerous now with social media and Facebook groups and Reddit groups and whatever it is.

  There's also the rise in antisemitic conversations in groups. There's just a rise in hating everyone right now, which, yeah.

  Like it's all baffling to me. The only good piece of news I got out of this discussion we had about is democracy dying, is that the guy who was embedded with some of these groups said that they all hate each other so much that they can't really like, organize enough to like, do anything of like political significance so far.

  He's it's like going to a high school kind of drama like scenario where who's dating who and they hate each other and there's so much inter fighting and competition that, that was like the light he saw at the end of this tunnel. But it's, it. I think it ties back to what you mentioned earlier, Ronda, of they're all, there are these people who think they should have something and because they don't, and because of the, what's happening with the income disparity right now that people who aren't getting what they think they should have access to or thought where they should be or fill it in, they're like, it must be your fault because you took my spot.

  And I'm like, we have how, we have, how many jobs open right now that we can't fill in America? Like nobody. This goes back.

  Yeah. This goes back to accountability though. Someone's gotta play the blame game, right? For whoever copies. So when it comes to some low income white men, I'll just say, because that's the most pervasive who's easy to blame, right?

  Who can be the scapegoat instead of saying, look, maybe I should, I need to turn around my own life, right? Maybe I just admit that. Yeah, exactly. They're never wrong, I do.

  So much of this, we know, like we can, we have lots of power should we choose to use it, right? And so much of this does come down to voting and voter registration and being active in that.

  We've had a bunch of primaries happening right now, and the trends everywhere that 16% of eligible voters did anything about it. Have you guys watched the G word on Netflix? Not yet. I highly recommend it. It's a, it's president Obama was an executive producer on it, but a comedian's running it.

  And they're looking at the things that, the surprising things the government does do good for us, and all the things that are a hot mess. Like they do the entire weather system, but then FEMA's a shit show, right? So they do this contrast, but part of the takeaway was how important the local government is.

  And that's where a lot of, the Make America great efforts were being pushed, like under the radar was at local levels more than very much what we do see. So I'm gonna open up to you guys of what are you seeing, what, at a local level, how, like what actions are you seeing people taking or do you encourage others to take?

  And I know this is a hot topic for you, Chandra.

  Yes, because I like I've been doing voter, I've been pushing for voter registration now because we do have the Republican primary that's coming up and on the 21st. And if you see the ads it's so low key because like right now, like only the re it's the Republican primary, so basically everybody's jocking to see, trying to get the Senate seats and, figure out who's gonna be on the ballot in November.

  But the problem is that. No one's really paying attention to what they're saying and what their missions are. You never I actually, we, I was at a school board meeting and one of the one of the candidates was trying to go she knew that was her audience at the school board.

  And they, someone came in with I'm not sheep and it, and there wasn't a sheep on the thing, it was a ram. I was like, you in the right place, you need to learn. But it was like, yo, the school is not raising my kids. And so she p to them like she was in love with it because those were her people because she could actually, get them to come vote for her because, and that's the most, it's like some of the disgusting things I'm seeing here in Stafford with the, with this primary and no one's really calling it out.

  No one's really saying anything 'cause it's quiet, because, a lot of times we don't, they don't address it. It's very low key. And for me, I'm trying to get the information out so that everybody goes, listen y'all, this is who the Democratic person's gonna be up against. You need to know who you're going, you know who your neighbor is really supporting, who your, who everyone's supporting.

  Who at the board of supervisors is supporting? Who on the school board is supporting? Because you need to know who you're up against come November. But it's they don't realize oh, it's June. Nobody has to vote. Get your behinds to the ballot, even if you're a Republican. Make sure that person aligns with your views because they could be a super radical, even with the Democrat, there could be someone who is not in giving you your best interest.

  And here you can change your party. You could be a Republican and run as a Democrat. And, you know what I'm saying? So essentially you can actually do that switch, switch, go to the Democratic the Democratic caucus and get put on, be put on their ballot. And it's yo, pay attention. This can happen.

  The bait and switch can happen. So be aware of what is going on. And it's I,

  the first thing I'd like to say is that I'm a good Republican. It's embarrassing these days. You was gonna say that on record? I'm not a bad one and I You was a bad name. I wanna really, I think I've been more in line with Republican views for a long time because I make money and so when you make money you wanna make sure the money goes somewhere.

  That's all. I don't wanna be taking care of everybody's kids because they don't, I wanna have social services to actually work a person socially. I don't want you to be burdened with social services for the rest of your life or mine. That's just, that's my ideal. Okay. It's the first thing I'd like to say.

  Second thing I'd like to say is, everything Chandra is saying is true. However, I think people like me are tired. Have not watched the news in months. And it's so much against me because I love political science. I love to watch cnn. I didn't even watch Fox. I watch any news at all. I haven't watched nothing because it has been so emotionally drain.

  I will go on record saying that I did vote for Joe Biden. I am ly disappointed, but I think a lot of people that look like me are also disappointed and they're gonna be more inclined to do research this time. I think Biden, he had a Kamala, so i'm still looking for kale. No, but listen, and I think because the time I got the most disgusted with him was when I saw the pictures at the border of Haitians. I could not take it. And the fact that he never came out and made a political statement about that, no. And that's the baby, which I don't like, don't human rights.

  And you do something like that's crazy to me. I think that one or two things are gonna happen. Either you're gonna have a lot of people that vote counter to what they ever voted before, or you have a lot of people that just stay home because they don't give a shit anymore. It's great.

  An emotional, political cycle for at least eight years. It's tiring. You cannot keep. You can't keep doing this or

  having an expectation. I also think one, like the political system is now defined on either party by the most radical and party, right? Yep. Like that def like Republican ideologies are not, they're not bad ideologies neither.

  No. On the other side of things like are Democrats, but it's like you're defined by either Mason, Hawthorn or whatever who's like filmed humping people. I don't even know what his deal is. Or, on the other side of things like the, like that is click Beatty. And I have to like, I have to say while social media could do so much good because you can find out about different rallies or networkings or whatever it is, like support local candidates.

  On the flip side, I feel like we all train are now trained to have these click Beatty candidates in a way. And that's who defines the parties and it's become so polarized. Like Rwanda, you're like, okay, I'm just gonna come out and say it like I'm a Republican and like people are gonna roast me, whatever.

  But it shouldn't be a bad thing. It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be a bad thing, but unfortunately in the world that we live in and in the social media landscape we live in, like the people that get the attention that define the parties. And I guess, someone like Trump, like he was or is or whatever, as a social media superstar.

  Like he galvanized an audience, right? Like he's the most clickbait and he like leads the party now. 'cause he has the most he's the most popular in that party. Did Bob's popularity has

  increased since Biden. People like him more. I in, I have barbecues here all the time. They're like, yo, we gonna vote for Trump or what now?

  Four years ago we could have never said that. You know what I mean? My mother, if I even considered it, this political cycle has been so disappointing with the inflation. With the water, Russia and this gas. It's just too much for people to really get a hold on. Even though I don't feel like any one single candidate is to blame.

  And I think most people agree with that. A lack of planning. The lack of execution. You just need some, I need an adult, whatever adult. Sign up, you should run. I would vote, I'm gonna say this pretty ballot. Say this,

  we have six Republicans running to be on the ballot for our House of Representatives here in Virginia.

  In my county, we only have one, one Democrat. She's already, she's gonna be, she's gonna be on the ballot come November, right? We have one seating sitting Republican who's been, no one's ran, people who run against him. He has been here. He's going to stay here. I think he was gonna die in office. And the thing is though, because of how, I'm not mad at Ronda, 'cause my father was a Reagan Republican and he said he, he said that, he goes, there's a difference.

  You know what I'm saying? God rest his soul. But my one thing my dad said, come going forward, the party has been di diluted. And poisoned by the inflammatory things. And that's when he said this bef like he's my dad passed away in 2013, but he said that back then. He goes, watch what happens. Watch what's going to be the thing that, the Republican party's gonna be split. And it's split now because you have those who are against Trump and those who had the true Republican values of, listen, we need to, we, we are not gonna take care of people's children.

  We don't, those, they, like Ronda said, but then you have the ones who are using the they're using Fearmongering to push their agenda. That is, that's pro white male, that's all. Let's be real poor white male and pro rich white males. So there's no there's no, no room from anybody else.

  And the women and it's I'm, it blows my mind that individuals are not seeing, 'cause I'm mean. The administrative current administration. Now, it like, for them, for what they did to hate that bothered me because you come out and you say something about Ukraine and Russia, but you don't say anything about what was going on with these brown people though.

  And that, that I, you take note and I'm like vice president could've spoke on it, but I'm still looking for the statement. I haven't heard her speak. I don't, nothing. Have you heard her speak at all? That's what I'm saying. I don't even know. Is she still there?

  No, I feel like they're, they're trying to distance her from this train wreck a bit, I think is what they're trying to do.

  Oh, so

  she run two different states? I, no, I understand that's her role, but I think that like they're politically like taking her away because come the next election cycle I don't know what the deal, what their plan is, but I don't think they want her tied next to Biden's hand in hand given the current trajectory.

  That's why it's not a good thing. It's just that's what, that's why I think she has been around.

  I just feel like in, in the grand scheme of things we got bad boots. They placated because they, they we know we, we were happy to have a woman as the vice president, but a woman of color.

  But that's that pation I've been talking about. Let me just get, yeah, here y'all go be happy. There you go. Now don't talk. Don't get me wrong I was very excited, but it was underwhelming to say the least. So I'm gonna leave it at that. 'cause I don't want I have to be mindful.

  Yes. 'cause I,

  I just think, nobody could get us. Ronda, you said, I just want someone to be an adult. I just want someone to have a set of balls. Please just say what you know is the right thing versus continuing to care about where. Party funding is coming from, or who the party head is or any of this stuff, because, yep.

  Go ahead please. So just, we, we are a nation steeped in history and traditionalism. I just wonder if we just cut out all the Bs and started over, maybe the the Bill of Rights needs to be rewritten. It def it no longer fits, you're not dealing with, I, I know we have to go back and do a research and see how many people were really living in the days when everyone was information carry a gun.

  We, it's millions of people now. It's just not safe, maybe those things need to be rewritten and redone. I don't, we don't live there. Other countries have their own issues with this amount of Vickery. It can't even be safe. It's not even normal. We're arguing about the dumbest things. Kids should not get shot, period.

  Kids should not get shot. People in church should not get shot. If I go to the grocery store, I should not get shot. What are we arguing about? And that's exactly what McConaughey was saying. We on this, we agree if the NRA didn't exist, we would not have this problem. They pay so many and we can't compete with that.

  We can work on our agenda is gonna be I don't think depend on the national government for Nope.

  It takes so time for it to go through, it has to start in your backyard. And a lot of times I say, they didn't buy those guns federally, nationally, like they bought 'em on the couch.

  Those rules on how to buy the rules on buying guns. Like I can go right now down to Prince William County, Virginia. And for me to buy one of those because you can go to the the gun show, there's a limit in there. You have to fill out paperwork and wait and come back to the market, to the gun show.

  To get what you're purchasing. But then again, they still do a nack check. A local a local check, criminal check. And if you show up on local as being a domestic and violence offender, like that starts at a local level. So we can't say there needs to be a national rule.

  No. These local officials need to put a squash on that

  they didn't even have a national rule for. They didn't do that. You know what I mean? So you let every state their own decision about COVID, you don't let them make their own decisions on it. Doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. I can't agree.

  So that's all, no, my favorite thing I

  heard recently. I just feel like it has to start somewhere, because if you know the national, it has to come out nationally. That's true. But until that happens, these local governments have to do their part because it starts in your backyard.

  And if the local, the federal government's not gonna do it, then the local government needs to set their foot down and do things that the federal government is not going to do. Because that's like having a parent and then a stepparent. No, the parent gotta set the rule down and the stepparent gonna have to follow suit.

  Because at the end of the day, if you like, you can't take a gun across state lines here. Like from dc, from Virginia, dc you will go to jail. You know what I'm saying? If you're caught so that Yes. And it's a thing. Oh yeah. If you're caught. But the whole process is, making sure these rules are in place and enforced.

  Like they're like, if I have to fill out this three page, four page document to buy a gun, right? They shouldn't be selling them online. You what I'm saying. If they're sold on online, you have to do the same things. I just feel like this local level, it starts there because it would help, it would help push federal, because keep in mind, the people who are making the laws in the federal, in the government, in the, in Washington, are the same ones who are here in our county.

  These are the people we elected to speak for us federally. So if we don't get the person to hear, to go speak for us in Washington, then you're stuck. Then the law is not gonna take place. And you have to make, hold these people accountable. You got my vote, now you're gonna do what I say.

  So that my favorite gun story I heard recently is that I don't remember what country it is.

  But they were saying that for a man to get a gun, he has to get a letter signed by every woman he is ever dated, ever been married to this, his sisters and their his mother. I like that. Like we should just implement that now. Ain't nobody have a gun. They'll lie

  three in the country. No guns. And what people don't talk about with the gun violence in particular, that the statistic that has stuck with me, that I find so horrifying, is that every 14 minutes a woman is shot and killed by her partner in America.

  Wow.

  Every 14 minutes. How many women have died?

  Just since we've been talking because of gun violence in the us because the red flag laws aren't in place everywhere because if you're, if you've been committed of domestic abuse or have a what's it called against you? A restraining order? The there's we're no one thinks that those people should have access to weapons.

  No one does. So like we have to just stop this nonsense that's going around. And I think that, the reason I love talking to you, all of you is because you are such smart women, right? Like when we really start talking to each other, it is, but it's when we talk to each other, we're like, yeah, so everyone should be listening to us.

  Like what? It just speaks to the fact of okay, like when do we get to let every per like person, if we're gonna use social media, let's just do a vote. Everyone in the US go online and press yes or no. We would get things done faster because like the percentages of agreement on these big topics is ridiculous.

  The only people who don't seem to agree are the people in Congress and Senate. And it's what

  is going on? And most been there for too long anyway. Like why do you have a walker getting to your seat? People like, get out and let somebody else come and make decisions because you're falling asleep.

  You you don't know what's really going on. Let's get some people in there that really know what they're doing. And then yes, you also

  also most of them know what's right or wrong. It's if that trumps their political agenda right. Where they're getting the funding. Most of them know what to do.

  It's if they actually will do it.

  Yeah. And that's what I think. Know Liz Cheney saying last night, this is not about who's the leader right now. It's your conscience and your constitution. Yeah. What are gonna do about it? Exactly. And I'm like, okay.

  That money is on their shoulder though.

  Remember that? Remember when the guy,

  he was a senator, I think he got shot at the baseball stadium. Remember they were playing baseball. I was like, this is it. This is the moment they gonna do something. Nope. Nope. Or Ga or Gabby Gifford. Gabby Gifford. It was crazy. Should dodged the bullet.

  That's what they gonna say. But you shouldn't have been there. It's the craziest thing. I don't get it. I don't understand politics because ugh. I'm sorry. Y'all look at

  the money. If you follow the money, yeah. That'll tell you exactly where it's gonna go, because I'm gonna tell you them political pacs are powerful.

  Look at what happened with the airlines in lifting the mask requirements. On the airplanes, you think that this, that happened because that money listen, I'm gonna cut off your money. If you don't get it together. You know what I'm saying? You gotta look at follow the dollars, you'll follow what's gonna happen next.

  I would just like to say that DeSantis today announced that he wants CPS to pro parents taking kids to drag. Joe, this is what's important. Oh yeah. I've seen a ton of that

  the other day. Yeah.

  Wait a minute now. Wait a minute now. Whole different racism though. You know what I'm saying?

  Because Yes. This is the same person that don't go Disney World. This the same person? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's my governor. Somebody need to go tap him on to show them. Ask him who didn't

  who hurt you. It's his wife has, his wife is I think she's a survivor. This, his wife is a breast cancer survivor.

  He's got kids, it's the strangest thing. He takes these harsh stances. What's the other one? Oh, Texas. Texas. Cruz. Abbott. Abbott. Abbott. And Cruz, when he went, he did the speech right after the kids got killed. I was so proud of that man that stood up to him in the restaurant and said, why would you do this?

  This is not the time these kids just died. You can't vouch for guns right now. It's insensitive. And these people have kids. They don't care. Yeah. Even when it's at their back door, they'll find a way to excuse it and not make a move.

  And they completely, so there's been such a shift since the early eighties and who's commandeered.

  Different values in America. There's all these articles if you look for them right now of Evangelical or Christian Church leaders who are being kicked out because they aren't getting in line with the MAGA approach and they're having it fired, or they're resigning.

  There are the Second Amendment, how they strategically have been twisting what the Second Amendment actually stands for, and making it this thing where what people say the Second Amendment isn't actually what's written down. It is so different from that. And even Yeah.

  But even the first party to support a Dream Act was the Republican party. Yep. There's there's been such a shift in the eighties and nineties of, to, to today of what Talking points are used and how they've been Re-Scripted. To the point where it is just a bunch of I dunno

  it's, go ahead.

  Older black men were, they were Republicans. All the older men in my family that were business owners especially, they were republicans. Republicans were party people. We were party hate them. So Abraham party. So it's just, it's so interesting to me even through social media, how we in our own, and this is why it's so interesting for me to have conversations race, because I experience black on black racism every day.

  We how we, that's why it's embarrassing to say, oh, I'm a Republican to certain people because they will attack you based off of the limited knowledge they have on even what it means to be a Democrat. A lot of stuff that people recite is third party. They got it from someone else. It's like the Bible.

  When I used to go to my church when I was growing up, they would say, know the Bible yourself, and you had to read all the scriptures. People don't do that anymore. They hear your script, they repeat it like they know everything. They're not making

  decisions on their own. Social media is like the worst place to get your information, right?

  I've seen one quote. Attributed to 17 different people. So y'all just gonna take this and put this whole people like, listen, this don't even go together. I just feel like the way that information is disseminated now at the rate that it is, even if it's misinformation spreads like wildfire.

  And I feel like social media's given a voice to the most, the people who should shut up. Yeah, I don't like, said, I don't wanna talk, I dunno what they identify as smart or stupid, but I'm just saying it's given a voice to people who just turn the volume all the way down. Don't say nothing else because it's, that's that kind of, that's how the information is spread.

  That's that. Yeah. Something is so dumb. That it, your mind bogs, but it's passed and people go deeper, take off,

  go deeper. Go deeper. Because even with what you're saying, we all recognize that it's dumb, but that dumb thing will have one thing, 5 million views. It is the metaverse. They are controlling everything.

  The more ridiculous it sounds, the more it's promoted. I could say something completely reasonable about credit. It gets five views. Someone says something like, don't pay your bills. You don't gotta do that. 3 million is muted. Yours is muted.

  It's muted because it makes sense. Exactly. Shadow. Correct. Like I people shadow banned, like both of you and my client are shadow banned.

  Why? Because y'all making sense? You're not saying the dude was, oh, go get this CN number and then you get your LLC and then you buy all land. I'm like, where y'all getting this stuff from?

  Okay. Yeah, but social media and that, that whole Cambridge analytic thing, when I watched that on Netflix a few years ago, my eyes were open and then I started applying it to credit.

  And I was expressing to people how all those algorithms play together. We already know what you're gonna do. That's how they determine how they're going to lend to you. All of that is connected.

  Yeah, I just this was a great conversation. That's all I'm gonna say. Good. I can't say this online because I'll be Facebook

  because I, what's gonna happen is, yeah, because I really wanna comment. Are y'all dumb? Did y'all not read? Here's a link to the book. Like I I'm sorry, go ahead.

  Yeah. I just appreciate that. Now you guys are gonna get me in Facebook jail, and that's okay. Yeah. I'll go to jail for you guys. I free now on prob.

  But, so I wanna end this on some optimism because that's, I gotta have hope, right? We gotta keep pushing forward. So I would love you guys to tell me what are, one thing or three things that you are, would recommend people to do? You're happy as progress. What do you hopeful about and how can people participate in hope right now?

  Your face to that question was amazing. It said a lot for everyone. It said there's some serious skeptical hippo eyes right there about I don't think you, there's any hope left in the world.

  Hoping and praying right now. That's all we do. We're yet praying so that we on hold for Jesus.

  That's all. I,

  yes. This is just an interesting little world. I think everyone honestly should go to therapy because it's a lot to sink in on a daily basis. I can't, I'm not hopeful about, I'm still hopeful about minority home ownership. I am hopeful that this will be what they can use as a catalyst to break gener generational wealth curses with people experiencing rapid home equity like this.

  I'm only, I'm just hopeful that they use it in the right way, so that's what I'm hopeful about. Yeah.

  I'm just hopeful. More individuals start looking at the makeup of their local and their state, their local county and state level politics and the in individuals who are making the decision for them.

  I really, I'm hopeful that more people would actually take the moment and actually have a heart, not be just so blinded to seeing other people are hurting. And I'm not asking them to give the shirt off their back, but I'm asking them to lift one, lift each other up, not, not looking at, oh, you got something that I don't have, so I can't help you.

  No. Just have a heart and, look out for each other. And that's all. I don't, I'm hopeful that more people will actually start speaking the truth and when, and not say that somebody's hating or bashing when they're speaking the truth and not doing the bandwagon thing. That's, that's all I got because I'm on the block list for heaven because I done prayed too much. I done worry the lord so much. He tired.

  I'm hopeful that people I think we over here for a bit and then it's squandered a little bit with people, projecting at people. Let's start listening again and let's start empathizing and then taking action to support. And I say that just because I think in the world that I live in terms of trying to raise money and such, it's like the only way people like me get forward is if other people lend out a helping hand.

  And actually make that introduction or invite me to that event and vice versa. I remember a few weeks ago, this one girl was having a really bad day and asked a question at a panel, and this BC was so rude to her. I painted her on the side and I was like, I think I might have an investor for you to meet with.

  And she got a meeting with this investor and she was like, thank you so much for actually doing what you said you were gonna do. How many people say they're gonna help or make this intro or, Linda helping hand whatever it is and don't do it. So taking listening, empathizing, and taking action, even the smallest of things.

  Can change someone's life. I think support in any way you can at any level.

  And we all know that if 25 people, a hundred people were on a cruise ship, we'd figure it out. We'd figure it out. We would never say, you don't get any food or you don't get access. We talk about the Titan right now.

  Is there a difference? Is there a difference? But so I just, it, it baffles me when we get So to your, like all of you have mentioned like just being human, being kind like what's what would a five-year-old do in this situation? Most of the time, a five-year-old is going to want to make sure everyone's okay.

  And there's this gap of are you okay? Am I okay? Okay. Who's not okay here? Because we gotta fix who's not okay. Because it, I think we forget that there's a weakest link element. I think we forget how much everyone's going through all the time. Yeah, I'm on team with be more human and, giving grace so we can get it back because I know I'm gonna need some.

  As always guys, I love getting to have these powerful conversations with you. Thank you for being a guest to me and the powerful ladies and each other and this community. It does make me feel more hopeful because more you guys exist in the world and you're just living every day as the good humans that you're asking everyone else to be.

  So thank you for that.

  You're most welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you. I love being on paddle with these ladies because I'm trying to, I'm working on being more. Yeah, I'm not be myself.

  Yeah. What do you guys have? We're gonna do quick shout outs and wrap it up. So what do you guys have going on?

  How can people support you, follow you? Where can they find you? Lauren, you can start. I'll

  step in. Please, if you love fashion and pretty close, go to Dora Mar. I'm gonna type the website in here because that's my baby. And you can follow us at Shop Domar and you'll see me tagged all over that so you can find me too.

  My handle looks like it Wilson, but it's Lt Wilson. Perfect.

  Ronda. Oh, I am relaunching my nonprofit on Juneteenth. My nonprofit is created to help minorities buy homes. I'm hoping to start an initiative called Get on the Bus, where we get on buses with lenders, realtors and community leaders. In Baltimore, Baltimore has a lot of money to give, so we've bought $20,000 in different areas and grant money, so I'm gonna take the buses there.

  People walk through, lose their fear of the city and get welcomed back in to Baltimore. Love

  that. I'm gonna hit you up 'cause you know I love Baltimore's my other home. Home. Yes. So I currently I'm going to, I'm doing a relaunch at the beginning of July of my, it's a membership program because people like to pick my brain and you can't pick my brain for free.

  'cause my brain is, my is. It's how it's gonna help you. And so I I'm relaunching that. So go to chandra gordon consulting.com, get on the mailing list so that you can get access to that. Also follow conversations with Chan. We're gearing up to release a whole bunch of episodes with some amazing guests.

  I do have a, a special podcast series with Pretty Women Hustle Magazine. And so I can't wait for that to come out. And that's what I have going on. I have amazing clients. Check them out. I can't shout them all out 'cause this is right now. So I, that's all I have and I'm getting better at telling what I have on.

  But thank you Kara, for this amazing Pamela again. I can't believe it's been two years.

  I know. I can't either. I know. Again, you guys are amazing. Thank you for being incredible humans and we'll continue this conversation.

  Thank you for listening to the special episode of The Powerful Ladies Podcast. We'll continue to host the powerful Conversations about America Series because powerful ladies are about change. Powerful ladies are the ones out there doing the work. And whose opinions we need to be highlighting and sharing along with their personal experiences.

  For additional resources and ways to take action, follow us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, you can follow and connect with our panelists on Instagram, Ronda Brunson at Ms. Brunson Credit Queen Chandra Gore at See Gore consults Lauren Wilson at LT Wilson and at Shop Dora Mar. You can find me on Instagram at Kara Duffy.

  In the meantime, we'll see you next week for a brand new episode, the Power Ladies Podcast, with an amazing new guest. In the meantime, be safe, be loud, be the leaders we need. Be awesome and up to something you love.

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Ronda Brunson @msbrunson_creditqueen
Chandra Gore @cgoreconsults
Lauren Wilson @ltwilson and @shopdoramaar
You can find me on instagram @kara_duffy

Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud