Episode 68: A Powerful Conversation About Racism in America | Sharifah Hardie, Ronda Brunson, Mikelle Drew & Chandra Gore
This is one of the most important conversations I’ve ever had on the podcast. Recorded live on June 5, 2020, just days after the murder of George Floyd, it brings together Sharifah Hardie, Ronda Brunson, Mikelle Drew, and Chandra Gore for an open, honest, and unfiltered discussion about racism in America. We talk about personal experiences, systemic injustice, and the urgent need for change. The panel shares perspectives on economic equality, reparations, and the ways mentorship and advocacy can help dismantle discriminatory systems. This conversation is as relevant now as it was then — and it’s a must-listen for anyone committed to racial justice, equality, and creating a better future.
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You can follow & connect with our panelists on Instagram here:
Sharifah Hardie @sharifahhardie
Ronda Brunson @msbrunson_creditqueen
Mikelle Drew @383design
Chandra Gore @cgoreconsults -
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Introductions
04:15 Why This Conversation Matters Now
08:40 Personal Experiences with Racism
14:20 Understanding Systemic Injustice
19:55 The Role of Economic Equality in Change
24:35 Reparations and Repairing Harm
30:10 Mentorship as a Tool for Empowerment
35:20 Advocacy in Action: Where to Start
40:05 Holding Leaders Accountable
45:50 The Power of Community and Solidarity
50:15 Calls to Action for Lasting Impact
Hi everyone.
I am as fast as I can admitting all into this call, so thank you for your patience as we get everybody in here. And thank you guys for being here. You're welcome. Thank you for having us. Having me. Of course.
Hi Ronda.
How are you? I'm doing well. Yes. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Okay, I see three and now four of our panelists are here. Okay. So we gimme 30 more seconds and we will kick this off.
Everyone in. Okay. Guys, thank you so much for being here. I know that everyone has been going through all sorts of feelings and. Everything just keeps continuing to get compounded and feelings at a whole different level. I think every day, at least speaking for myself. And I know that everyone is busy and up doing all the things that they need to and they can right now.
So thank you all for being here and your time. I especially am so thankful that our four panelists were a guest to me and powerful ladies and all of you here today for sharing their perspective. Opinion and really like where they're at, which is so powerful. Today I would love to make sure I'm sharing my, before we get into all of the the conversation piece we would love to as a group first acknowledge that today would've been Brianna Taylor's birthday, and we would like to do 27 seconds of silence for in honor of her. Will you guys join me in that? Absolutely. Okay. I'm gonna literally set my timer so that I can be present in that moment.
Okay.
And we will begin now.
That's 27 seconds. Not long enough to honor her and everyone else who has been a victim and. That's why we're here today and that's why we're committing to continuing this conversation. So I say we jump in and I would request that our four panelists please introduce yourselves. And I'd also would love to know, like, how are you, that's my first question that I have today.
How are you? As you introduce yourself to the group, please let us know who you are what you're up to and how you're doing right now. Thank you and Sharifa, if you wanna start, that would be great. Okay. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you, Kara, for having me on the panel. I am Sharifah Hardie. I'm a business consultant talk show host, video cast, and podcast host.
I built my first website in 1994 and I have been helping businesses in some former fashion since then for the last 26 years. I also just finished in the March 3rd primary. Primary election running for Long Beach City Council. So I think I have a very wide view, of a lot of different areas.
And right now, I think more than anything else, I'm tired. I think that's the one word that sums it up is that I am tired.
I hear that. Thank you. All right, next Ronda. My name is Ronda Brunson, but they call me the Credit Queen. And for the last 16 years I've been preaching and teaching the credit Gospel to all who will listen. I am the owner of Miss B Credit Queen. I'm the owner of Project Restore bmore, which is a nonprofit that's geared towards slowing gentrification.
And I also have a sales firm. I am a daughter, I'm a granddaughter, and I'm black. So I think that it's important to have conversations like this. If I had to describe myself today and for the last few days, I would say emotional. Yeah. Thank you. And where are you based that of, so everyone can know?
My offices are based in Baltimore. I live in Miami. Thank you. All right. Is it Mikelle Mikelle, I don't wanna say it wrong. How do you properly pronounce your name? It's Mikel. Mikel. Okay, perfect. Welcome. Thank you for being here, Mikel. So I'm Mikelle Drew Pellum. I am from new. I'm from New York.
I live in New Jersey, and I am a digital fashion trainer, which means that I, right now I am working with Adobe products to teach fashion designers how to use Adobe products for fashion. And I am starting to move into other areas, the other digital software in including 3D software. I would describe how I'm feeling right now.
I would have to echo Ronda with emotional. There's a lot of things that have come up just in this week that I did not realize was as emotional. I'm feeling it right now. Was as emotional as I. Expected it to be. And there were a lot of things that I thought I had moved past and obviously I haven't.
And I am fortunate that I have very close friends, very close family, and an amazing husband who has helped me realize that in talking about it it does help. It does help. Partially in just realizing that you're not past a lot of things, but also just getting it out. Getting it out into the open and letting other people know that it's a problem that you've been holding it in and that you know it's there.
Because I think a lot of times we internalize a lot of things because we need to just keep moving and keep getting past, so it's been emotional, but it's good in a way to finally start talking about those things that are really that you never have addressed that it's always been there, but because you're always felt like I just have to keep moving and to have to keep moving forward then now you can address them.
Yeah. Got that. Thank you. And then last but not least, we have Chandra.
Yes, I'm Chandra Gore. I'm a business consultant and publicist. I'm also a festival founder and producer. How I feel right now is I'm tired and, as Mikelle said it's hard because you have to address and look back on things that you've gone through and wonder, from the things that have happened when I was younger to even in corporate America, even in now running my multiple businesses, it's always.
It's, there are these little microaggressions that happen and you try to just smile and you don't wanna show emotion. So it's like you it's heavy. It's tiring. So I'm tired now 'cause I'm now focusing on the things that are going on here. I have a community organization where, but we have an election coming up and a lot of people don't know who's on the ballot.
They don't know. And so pushing for them to understand like their voice matters and it's exhausting. And explaining these things over and over again to someone who basically, who will tell you I did not, I don't understand, and I don't know. And it's, I'm tired and it's I had a, finally had a good cry the other day because I have, I'm a mother and I have sons.
I have two daughters. I have a husband who I have to. I constantly tell to be aware of their actions when they leave the house, and then they in turn tell me the same thing. And it's it's,
it's like no matter how high you get or how far you get, it's a battle. So it's like, what more can you do? I'm glad that we're having this discussion because it's very much so needed. We do need to talk about it. We do need to make others aware that these are the things that are going on. Thank you for having me.
Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a yes to talking more about it. Like I hear in what you just shared, how. You shouldn't have to talk more about it. You shouldn't have to be feeling how you're feeling. I appreciate you being willing to share where all of you are at and talk to everybody about it one more time, right?
Because it's, you shouldn't have to in that context. The kind of next question I have is. What do you want people to know and what would you like to stop saying? To give up as we go forward as well?
Any of you can jump in. Whoever wants to. Our panelists, this is what I'll say. Lemme just say this. First of all I appreciate having this conversation and I appreciate you, Cara, for even wanting to have the conversation until I saw the flyer. Initially, I thought it was going to be a multiracial conversation, that it wasn't just gonna be four black women speaking.
I thought it was gonna be people who represented all WA walks of life. White women on the panel. White men on the panel, Hispanic people, because conversation starts with us all talking, us all having a voice. What I'm tired of more than anything else is for people of all races to what To.
Wait to act when something happens. Like I said, I ran for Long Beach City Council. It was very hard to get people to come out and vote to people to come out and support. But unless something happen, unless something go wrong, there's a horrific tragedy that all of a sudden you have people up in arms like, oh my God, black people are not equal.
And it's okay, we knew that. I would love to see more people take an active role in, in politics, in their local government, and being a part. If this is the way you feel and you see the police department, then why don't you go and be a part of the change, be the change that you wanna see in the world.
Join the police department, become the lawyers, become the judges, become the people who have a voice. And what happens is when something goes wrong, then all of a sudden you have people up in arms. But before that, to a certain extent, it's quiet. It's calm until the next time something happens. And I think more people should be active.
They should create groups, they should create, get more involved in activism and not just wait until something happens. That's my primary view and my primary stance on just about everything that's going on right now.
I wanna echo everything Sharifa said and just say that I think that consistency is needed because I feel like even though I feel like there's more activity and there's more people who are involved this time, this is not the first time that something like this has happened, and it's not the first time that I think people have wanted to have some conversation, but it's okay, it dies down and fizzles out, so if everyone could consistently support another. Support somebody who agrees with the humanitarian efforts that you feel like you have. If you can to Sharif's Point come out and you be the person that runs for city council or, support people who are trying to change the way that policing happens.
All those things donate to a black organization that is doing community service that in local communities, but be consistent about it. Don't just do it once and feel like, okay, I did my part. It's gotta be something that's long-term because it's not going to change if we don't consistently stay on top of it.
And that goes for everybody. Amen.
I would just say or add to that, that we always have the ability to change the narrative. So in my industry, I'm telling people all the time you wanna change your credit, change your behavior, you wanna change your racism issues, change your behavior. Because I think that my experience has been a little different.
I was raised upper middle class. In Baltimore, and so this is gonna sound so crazy. I didn't know I was black until I moved to Miami because everyone around me was black. So when I moved here and I was trying to get a condo unit, rent unit downtown in Brickell, every time I sent over my application, I was approved.
And when I was sent over my id, I was denied. Every time, and I couldn't. I was explaining to the realtor, listen it she, because she was like, I don't understand. I said I'm black. She was like no. That can't be it. No, I'm telling you that's it because I check every box that would cause a person to qualify for this unit, but they keep coming at me after I send over a picture of what I look like.
We can all control that narrative by being a little bit more open. And compassionate and fair, and not assuming that you know what a person is gonna come with. What they're gonna bring. They're gonna bring drama. They're gonna be negative. They're probably drugged. You don't know. You don't know everyone's background.
But I can tell you one thing, we're all very much so human, and when we start having conversations, you start dialoguing about things that we have in common. We've all been through bad breakups. We all probably hate our hair sometimes. We all feel like we're a little overweight. Our commonalities so that we don't continue this narrative that these people are so different that we can't connect, and we were born to connect.
We wanna be included. You know what I mean? And we want to include you, but sometimes when you're walking into different situations, you don't even know who to trust. I am a Southwest Alister, but the reason I fought so hard to be an Alister was so I could get on the plane first, because I don't wanna sit next to a person that does not accept me for being black.
And that is something that goes through my mind. Am I gonna sit next to a racist today? Am I gonna make them uncomfortable? That's not fair, but that's my reality. You know what I mean? So I think that we all have to do our part to change the narrative. This is our time to flip the page and do something different.
And keep in mind when you are talking to your black friends that they have a lot more depth on this issue than probably what you ever thought about. We carry it with us everywhere we go. We've carried it with us generationally. Our parents have carried it with them. So thank you for the conversation, but just to make sure you make time and space for moments like this more often.
Amen. Yeah. Thank you. I would like to chime in on this because it's like I deal with going into places where. The words you get, oh my gosh, you're so articulate. Those kind of comments. So it's like I'm, I sit back and I become a shell of myself and I don't say anything because it's like I'm the only black woman at the table.
And that's the only thing that you can say When I help you solve your problem for your business. I didn't expect you to be this. See, these are things like, I'm glad this discussion is happening, but it's it does need to be ongoing. It does need to keep happening, but we need to address the person that's next to you that makes those comments, like
the color of my skin does not determine my brain power and my, the way that I can serve you as your for in your company. And it just makes.
It makes it hard to come to, to be comfortable when you know you're going to get those kinds of comments and you can't say anything and you don't wanna say anything because then you're the angry black woman or, oh, let's not get ghetto headless. Those kind of comments are so horrible and it's like for anyone to say that or to make some urban col like some.
I come from South Carolina. I'm from the south. Okay. It's, there's no other way to say it than I, I've been experiencing this, these microaggressions. From the time I was able to pay attention and to notice that I was different, to have a teacher tell me I was different. See, these are things that, we walk into rooms and I'm glad this discussion is happening.
And then for a moment, I was gonna hold back and not say certain things. We have to say these things. Like we, we wanna have the discussion, we're gonna have the hard discussion. A lot of times it's an issue where, oh, you have to walk in. Don't be too loud. Don't raise your tone. Watch what you say, how you say you don't wanna come off as aggressive.
And it's no one else has to think about those things that way before they go in a room and talk. So understand like these are the pressures that. We go through as black women and black people in general. When we are coming in a room, and this is, no one else has to do that. I actually had to funnel stuff that I wanted to say at a corporate in corporate America to my white counterpart and so she could say the same things that I was gonna say and not be taken as aggressive.
Those are the things we need to address. That's traumatic. My, my anxiety went up. Like it's one of you. You shouldn't have to be that way. And I really want people to understand, I want everyone to understand, that it's like a second. It's not even a second thought. I think it's ingrained and I don't know how we need to make a conscious change of that.
We should be, we can, we should be allowed to be passionate. We should be allowed to express our feelings without being. Labeled as aggressive or problematic or, all of these things, or our services or our business looking as if it's subpar because the minute I just put my picture on my website I just did that. Because I had to give a extensive resume after the fact. So that my service could, services could be taken seriously. And I had another counterpart who didn't have my resume, but because she looked apart, she had to subcontract her work. To me, that's the kind of stuff that has to stop that understanding that, this is.
Can I say something? Go ahead. Because I was about to jump in there too. I just wanna make this point. Last year was the first time I ever did a photo shoot for my business. Wearing braids. That is not a big deal. To some, that's a huge deal to me because I felt like, okay, people, are they not gonna trust me automatically 'cause I'm black?
And that's been my experience. And then I'm a woman. That's another thing. If I come out here with this natural hair, they're gonna be like, no. So last year during Congressional Black Caucus, I did a photo shoot in DC and I, when I posted the picture, I talked about how proud I was and how far I've come.
I've been in business for 16 years. I every, I would schedule everything about. How polished and straight my edges were gonna be so that I could assimilate into the culture so that people would not prejudge me before I walked into a room. Correct. That's not fair. It's not, look at my picture that I submitted today, like the picture I submitted for the panel.
Those are in my media kit. Because of the fact that I've had people in in corporate America, like I was secondary to the board for a larger major organization. Me wearing my hair natural was like, oh, you can't be in front of everybody today. When you go get your hair done and get it straight, let us know.
Then you can are you serious? I can't even be me. Like the picture that I submitted is my media picture, I can't even take pictures with, I love my natural hair. I love my natural weight. I love what I look like. But because this picture, and the thing is, I got away with it 'cause I'm wearing a beautiful African kinte kimono.
Like I, that was my compromise. I shouldn't have to compromise my look, my branding because it makes other people feel comfortable. My hair straight. Like it's a constant fight to be accepted by people who don't really want do, who don't understand, they don't accept the things that are naturally occurring to us.
Like it's mind boggling at times. I have I, I've been able to push other people, have partnered with people so that my brain can be taken seriously, and then I come from behind and say, this was my project. When the work is done, that's when I can say Thank you so much for contracting me.
I sent a representative. That's unfair because it makes another person feel comfortable, and this is hurtful. I was gonna just give you a hug. I wish I could, I'm sending you a virtual hug, but I'm gonna send it through the screen since I can't hug you in real life and you're not here with me, but I hear you.
I, and I feel your pain. I do. However, I will. I will say this, I'm the exact opposite. The exact opposite of that, when I ran for Long Beach City Council in the March 3rd primary election, if you Google me and my campaign video, it's still out there. It still says the same thing. I introduce myself.
I'm a business consultant. I'm a author. I list some other categories I said, and some may consider me an angry black woman. Some consider me an angry black woman. But I think more people should be angry about homelessness, about not having enough jobs, about not having enough food. So when I walk into a room, I want them to know that they might have to deal with an angry black woman.
But if I'm angry, I don't just wake up because it's Friday and let me just be angry 'cause I have nothing else better to do. But there is systematic injustice. There is systematic racism. There are wrongs that needed to be righted. And you can't always do that in a sugary sweet. Oh no, that's not me at all.
But I hear you. It is not a reflection on you. It's just the way I choose to express it. And when I go to meetings, I have gone to meetings with people who have come to meet with me, who haven't seen my picture, who had no idea who they were coming to meet with. And they sit down with me and they're like I'm meeting with you.
And I'm like, yes, I'm Sharifah Hardie. And they're hesitant and we start talking. But by the time they leave these meetings, they're taking notes on napkins of what I'm telling them on how to make money or how to build their businesses, right? So I want them to know upfront, unapologetically, I'm a black woman.
If you see me as angry, if you see me as aggressive. Makes me, no, nevermind. And this is where I think for myself, I will say there are times where I have, I'm like, I can't even, you can't mask it. You have to go full on and be who you are because it's one of those things, like we were, there are times where you just say, forget it.
And if you lose a contract, you lose the contract. And I've gotten, it's gone both ways, I'm saying.
The norm or that to keep occurring is not okay. I've finally gotten to the point, like I put my picture on my website. I'm very vocal, like I'm in my community, been in my community for years advocating for voter registrations. And when people come to the events, they think it's someone else who's organized it.
And I'm like, no, it's me. This is what I'm doing. We need to take, tackle these issues that are going on when I'm canvassing. I've had people call the cops on me for walking, knocking on doors to let 'em know that voter registration ends at a certain time. Call the cops on me because. I'm in their neighborhood.
I have a clipboard and three children with me, and I'm just letting them know, get your voter registration in because we have elections coming up and this is the cutoff. So these are the things that are constant. And it's just because a black persons walking around your neighborhood with a clipboard of three children don't, we're not casing the joint.
I'm just but can I just say speak to something just in general? The roots of the pain is that it's something that we cannot change. I can't wash this off, every day I wake up with the same amazing face. So for people to. Penalize you for something that you cannot change. And sometimes you're so prejudged by your aesthetic that they don't listen to how amazing your work has been.
They don't listen to your activism in the community. You're automatically silenced mentally by them because they can't accept you for who you are. I agree. I definitely agree. Ms. VI, but I guess I use the same approach in every area of my life that I use in business. I'm okay with not being for everyone.
There are people don't like to work with me because. I'm too opinionated. You could tell from the Round Table Talk show. I like opinionated conversations. Some people don't like that. They like little women and because it's like I just got to that point where, no, I didn't just get to that point when I left my corporate position because in, in corporate America, you play the game because that's the way it is.
I've gotten called into HR because my face, my facial expression, I can't hide that. If something doesn't make sense, I'm gonna, I can't say how I feel, but my face is gonna say it because you can't have it is just. I got called in HR because someone was offended because of a face that I made and all I could say to the human resource.
I said, so whatcha gonna do? Pay me to fix my face? What do you want me to do? I said, I can't vocalize that. You are ostracizing a whole subset of people by not offering these services to them. So I'm looking like I'm shocked. Somebody take the clue, get a hint. I can't say that, so I'm penalized.
I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't because I made a face and someone was offended by it. Come hang out with me. Come, hang out with me. I'll get you into some trouble, right? Because I, you and me, you would both be in trouble all the time because that's what I'm saying, come hang out into some trouble.
I remember this, I had similar experience from a manager who comes to me and she says, SHA, you intimidate people. And I told her, I said, I don't intimidate people. People are intimidated by me. That's a weakness on their part, not an action on my part. So I don't allow people to put their stuff, whatever their stuff is onto me.
I don't accept it. I'm like a Zena, the Warrior Princess. I'm like blocking it. No, your perception of me. And that's not my perception of me. I'm one of the coolest people I know. That's the thing. And I actually had that conversation as I left and did my exit interview. And I said, what's sad is you took you three years to realize everything that I said about who I was working with.
And then you wanna tell me on my exit? You were absolutely right. They weren't doing their job. They did make the department lose, money. And I'm like. Just hand me my severance pay because I tried with y'all. It's at that point where it's like it shouldn't have to go that far for someone to take notice to what you have to say.
And it's what we have fought with so much, and I'm just like, even outside, it's wow. That's why I, I. I am very selective in the words that I use sometimes because it's do you not understand what you're doing right now? And I'll stop someone now as they're talking to me and I'm like, we're not gonna do this.
Let's let's get to that point, let's go ahead and say, what if there's issues on the table, we're good. You feel the way you feel. I feel the way I feel because I had pushback on the things that I post on my business page. Okay. That's how you feel. I'm still a black woman in business.
I'm not gonna ignore the fact that people are dying. Black men, black women are dying, black trans people are dying. I'm not gonna ignore that. That's like ignoring a part of me, and I'm not going to do that. Oh, you're gonna lose business. Oh there's not there's another day I can't make money. I'm not here for that.
For, these injustices.
It. I just hope that this is, this discussion will let everyone see that it's not something you sub you, you consciously do. Sometimes it's subconscious and it's whoa, it's a, there's no other way around it to, but to say, wow, take the veil off and look at the things that are going on.
Because it's not that we're being aggressive, it's the fact that we can't show emotion. If I cry, I'm weak. Those things. I shouldn't have to be that way. It should have to be that way. One of the things that we were talking about in Thrive Collective, the Powerful Ladies Group the other day, was how the biggest thing that I got out of blackout Tuesday was being someone who, as a business called Powerful Ladies, is always looking for more powerful ladies to hang out with.
I. I knew that Instagram had an algorithm that was biased, and it's biased in lots of ways, right? Just like Amazon's, Facebook's, everybody else's. I could not believe how many women in particular of color that have the same hashtags that I use, have the same causes I have the same everything. Had never crossed my path.
And I was like, I knew Instagram had. A clear, scientifically proven bias issue. And to me it made such a great parallel to how the system is doing that too. And no one knows about it. Most people don't know that aren't experiencing it every day. And so you mentioned earlier Sharifa about like this, the changes in the system that have to happen to peel those biases away and to really make it equal.
For everyone, like what are some of the specific things that you wanna see changed? And this is for, all of you that you wanna see changed that like it's a complete, like this has to go, this has to change. Item that, we should know about. Here's the thing,
America owes black people reparations, if any. Any type of criminal act. You have to pay reparations. If you could not pay reparations to the person you have harmed or the person you have wronged, then you pay it to their children. You pay it to the families. And it's not about white or black. I don't look at you Kara, and go, oh, that's a white lady.
I don't like her. I don't have that view. I look at it like the government. I look at it as America. This is systematic. It's in every area of American society. And so until America Rights, they're wrong. You gonna always have these issues. And let me explain to you why you may not. Think about, okay, that happened years ago.
What has happened since then is the people who benefited and the people who profited from slavery, they've been able to pass along those profits from generation to generation to generation. So what they have is an advantage over everyone else. They have a leg up. And so until you right that wrong, it's always gonna be at a disadvantage.
I can name without even political look at Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a very successful businessman. But where did Donald Trump get his money from? I'll wait. Success. I don't, I. Listen, we gonna use success loosely here right now. Okay? We, it's not about Donald Trump and it's not about the politics.
The point that I'm making, and I wanna get back to that point, is you may not consider him successful. You may not like him. The point that I'm making is Donald Trump's bank account. Can we agree on that? We could agree on that. Paying contract, you gonna have a great bank account. Yeah, you're right, he hasn't paid those contractors, but when we have discussions, sometimes we go off on different areas. So I wanna go back to the question that I asked, which was, where did he get his money from? It was generational. It was from his family right to work. He got his money from his father. Simple and plain.
That's the easy answer is a lot of people like that their money didn't start with them. I was watching something the other day about Anderson Cooper. He doesn't want people to know that his mother is was, or Gloria Vanderbilt. Because he wanted to stand on the Cooper name. He wanted to stand on his own name.
But when we were having this discussion, I made the point, okay, he can call himself peanut butter if he wants to, but because he's a Vanderbilt, he has the ability to go to schools and get education and to have resources that people. People might not have if they, because they're not a Vanderbilt.
So that's what I wanna fix. I want reparations. I want the African American people to receive some of the benefits and the that's one of the things that happened. If you can't get somebody in criminal court and America has already apologized, you go to civil court. So that's what we want right now to change.
We want them to pay us what they owe us. That's what I want. I'm speaking for Sharifa Hart. I would like to see equality in lending. That's, I work with banks. I'm a credit person. I study credit. I work with all walks of life, and I know that if I look at a white person's credit report. No credit. Two reports are the same, but they can be similar.
And I look at a black person's credit report and it's similar. Their credit score is usually at least 60 points higher with the same situation the black person is going on. I know that when you go into loan offices that you are prejudged by. Your name by your skin tone, they know exactly who you are.
Now with all of these connectors we have through social media, they're able to Google you and see if you're a real person or not. All of that stuff, it matters. And so you have companies, and I don't know if you all know this, that get sued repeatedly for discrimination that you love. So you love Bank of America Bank.
America's treated black people like shit from the beginning. Let's be clear, they have been sued and have given us checks. I've gotten checks from Toyota Financial. I've gotten checks from Wells Fargo. Discrimination and lending, its a thing, so I would like to be treated equally. I wanna know that me, my neighbor, bought the same house and I'm not being charged 2% a month in my mortgage just because I'm black.
That's not fair. Way more qualified, higher credit score. More money. But it's the fact that I'm a brown person and unless I truly assimilate and I begin to live as a Caucasian person, I don't receive the rewards. I will say that when I bought my first house, and mind you, I was 18 years old, credit, great, everything.
And I went to my neighborhood bank, my family bank in South Carolina, my family bank, the bank that all of my family's been there, and the loan officer told my dad, we're gonna have some problems, how did you already know you gonna have some problems getting my loan approved. The loan was less than $60,000.
Like what? What would be the issue at Great credit? I built my credit. I had this savings. You know why these things happen? Because I had a another person, like there's another person sitting there, no problems with their loan. He didn't have to show all of this money in the bank. Their father didn't have to cosign.
But because it's those things, and I'm glad you touched on that. Those are the things that we've had to go through to watch other people that don't even have half of what we've accomplished, still be able to get the things that we have to work three times as hard for. I can say that even in, even in school, it was a same issue my dad sent me away so that I could have a better education.
Because even though we lived in an upper middle class neighborhood back in South Carolina, it still was, it still did not give me the boost that needed. Then when he sent me to Virginia to a neighborhood that was predominantly white, that was predominantly and even then I had to fight because it's those types of things.
That make it even harder. That's why you are absolutely correct. We have to right the systematic wrongs that have been going on for generation after generation. Because one of the things that's said in the south, and I know, I don't know if anybody else has heard it, it's better to be than a poor white person, than a black person with an education.
That should never be a saying. That should never be. It's be, it's better to be a poor, uneducated, white person. Like why would that even be a thing? Like these are the things that we like.
I haven't heard that one. I'll say I haven't heard this and I know Mika is gonna talk. I have heard that one, but I have heard the expression for, from poor white people that say, I might be a poor white person, but at least I'm not a nigger. I have heard that man. Yeah. I've heard that expression also, and all the things that all of us have mentioned, Sharifa and Ronda.
And Chandra, all the things that we've talked about, really just they sit on an economic. Point. And I think that's one of the biggest issues that our community has just in general is the economics. And to Sharif's point, the reparations. It started way before any of us, it's generational and because it started then it's just, it's snowballed into.
Yeah, some of us have clawed and scraped our way out and have tried to bring some people with us, but we would not have, first of all, I think a lot of us would be a lot farther along. I think a lot of us would be able to have generational wealth. And then the other thing is that we would be able to bring, improve some of our communities or improve all of our communities.
Yeah. Whatever level of improvement that is. But we would be able to improve ourselves. We'd be able to improve our communities and better communities in general, all around creates a better country, period. Country, so I think that this is something that, we are concerned about, but it is something that.
I wish that more people, and hopefully this, helps, but I wish that more people would understand that better communities overall, whether it's black, whether it's brown, whether it's whoever is going to make the entire country better, you know it's better for you. It's better for me. It's better for all of us.
Can I add to that? I think we also need to, to, of course the justice system needs to be like dismantled, blown up that, black fathers aren't in their households because they don't love their kids. That's not true. There are a lot of black fathers that either are in or would want to be, but the system is stacked against them.
There's, what is it called? What is it prison to? What's the pipeline program? School to prison pipeline. School to prison pipeline. So it is something that pretty much keeps kids instead of them excelling and going higher, they go from like probably middle or high school, straight to jail.
That's something that we deal with in our, it's a thing you can Google that. It is a real thing here. And it needs to, that, that the, these nonviolent offenders that are in jail for urinating in public, I guess the only question I ever want a white person to ask themselves is, would this happen to me?
Would this happen to my son? And if you can't say yes, then it is wrong. It has to be the same way across the board. Non-violent offenders should not be. I think I saw a little boy recently a high schooler got 65 years in jail. A Montgomery police officer shot his friend and he took the charge. He got 60.
This is a kid. Would that have happened then? Meanwhile, you have the white kid who was drunk driving, killed three people. The judge said he suffered from affluent. He was too affluent to no right from wrong, and he got probation. How is that fair? Here's the thing. I agree. Then, Alex, go ahead.
I'm sorry. No, I was just gonna say, I definitely agree with you, but what most people don't understand is it, and if you haven't seen the movie 13th, please watch the movie 13th. I believe that the movie 13th is one of the things that cost Hillary Clinton the election, right? Because coincidentally, it hit.
It dropped right before the election. But what the 13th amendment said was that all men are free unless they're prisoners. People always talk about the 13th amendment. The 13th amendment. It freed the slaves. Yes, you were free unless you were a prisoner. So what they did is what Ms. B was talking about was everything then became a reason to send you to prison.
Oh you were jaywalking. Oh, you gonna jail? Like you said, pissing on the street, whatever it is, you going to jail because now instead of having to pay you a living wage at a job, I can pay you 10 an hour to do the same work to if you go down in some places in the south, in South Carolina, they're picking cotton tobacco.
All of these things, these jail, pri prison industries are the nu are number one. They make the sheets, blankets, all of that slave labor. Legally it's, that's it. And that's what it comes down to. So you'll find that there are so many of our African American, our black. Who are in the prison system, and once you get into the system, it's very hard to get outta it because once you get out, now you gonna try to find a job.
But how you gonna find a job because you. So these are the all the things that we are fighting against until we fix those things, write those things, correct those things. And see, I'm passionate about a lot of things, not just because of race. I think our prison system in America is horrible.
Our prison system, our healthcare system. Aren't we supposed to be one of the greatest places on earth? And yet your prisons are full. There's no other place. Where their prisons are full. Full. You are you proud to have full prisons? Ridiculous. But even with the private prisons, like there's a whole different subculture here.
Yes. There's the federal funded prisons, and then you have the private prisons. And if you look at who owns those, it's the same people that are making the laws. Who are making, who are passing the judgment. Who own the corporations and they own the corporations. So that's what I'm saying. This is financial.
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. And so what happens is we sit by and we just watch all these systems, systematic. Laws that are passed for financial gain. Go ahead. Ms. BI was talking, I'm sorry. What I was gonna say is that I know in Baltimore recently they sponsored, the prisons sponsored a drone program to fly around the city.
It was supposed to prevent crime, but we know if it's a drone program is going to record offenders that then will end up in their jail and they'll get paid for them too. You know what I mean? And then I think even in some, I think what I learned about private jails is that they have a contract. With the state that if this certain amount of people are not jailed, the state then has to pay a fine.
So now you know that their goal is to arrest you for something. It just seems like the people that they are more apt to arrest look like me. But I can tell you why didn't mean to interrupt and it's not the only reason. But one of the main reasons is just like you were mentioning with the, the aff, right? Now, if the little white kid commits the crime, guess who's showing up with him to court? His daddy and his daddy owns the bank. His daddy owns the, so real estate. He own five businesses in that town. So when daddy shows up, you are not up. It's not even a question.
You're not gonna put my son in prison, period. I done paid for this prison to be built.
I sit on the, but when these little black kids go to, to to court, guess who they go with? They. Or a public defender who just got the case 20 minutes before the they have the court time and then you hit their parents can't take off of work to be with them because they still have the work to put food on the table because they don't own the anything and the place that they live.
So this is, it's just everything is a cycle. So everything precipitates those things. So this is the grand scheme of things. It doesn't make. It doesn't make sense that, I hope that people are realizing like, wow, this is a real thing. Because I have people always say that happened before you were born.
Yes. And it's affecting me now. Stop thinking just because it happened 50 years ago. There's still laws that are on the books that are specifically tailored towards people of color. Yeah, let me mention that. The reason I wanna tie in, I just put the link I'll let you finish. I'm sorry because I've been doing a lot of talking, but I just put the link to Ava Devor.
Do I mess her name? Her name is Ava. I always mess up her last name, but I put the link if anyone is interested in watching. 13th is in the chat room. But why that was so important is people forget that it was Hillary and Bill Clinton who created the Three Strikes Law, so that no matter what you did, if you had two strikes.
You were going away 25 to life. Bill. Bill Clinton is also the one who signed the mandatory minimums. People don't even understand the importance of a mandatory minimum. A mandatory minimum takes away the judge's ability to really judge he. If he feels that he should give you two years, he. If the mandatory minimum is 10 years, he has to give you at least 10 years.
And so these were ways systematic I'm pretty consistent, but these are systematic ways that are used to keep us in prison as slaves working for free. And that's.
Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah, go ahead. If we could talk about, okay, so we got all that so we got all that. But what if in, in, in groups like this, we could talk about how maybe you all can become some advocates. Kids. Those parents can't show up. But you know of the case, if you see it, you can go sit with them and make a connection with their family.
Because at the end, we all, I think everyone has a part, I even am admit in my own community for the lack of the work that we do in our own shit. So I think, I don't fully blame. Other races for what goes on in our community. No. But, so I think that it's room for everyone. But with what I was just hearing, I'm thinking that maybe some of the solution could just be connection.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna advocate for this young kid because I want them to have a chance. That's it. I think another thing that we can all do, all of us is be mentors. For younger people because I think that one of the things that happens in our communities is that there's no accessibility there.
We don't have the same accessibility to certain things, and so people only know I, when I was living in Brooklyn, I could not. Fathom how many people had told me that they had never even been out of the Brooklyn. They had never even been out of the borough of Brooklyn, which is so bizarre to me. Because that's like a 15 minute train ride away.
You could be in the city, but people who have never even gotten outside of, the. Five block radius of where they live. And so what that also means is that you now don't even have exposure. And then this, I also teach at FIT, I'm an adjunct there. And what I also realized, something that we all take for granted, which is just having computer and having access to the internet.
There were so many students who just did not have a decent wifi connection just to keep up with. The work that we were supposed to be doing when we went online. So even that, so having somebody who can just talk to you one to just check in with you every week and say, how you doing? How's everything going?
What do you, what have you done this week? Or what are your dreams? What are your goals? And what is your plan to get there? Because people have dreams, people have goals. All of these younger children can dream of something bigger. Yeah. And maybe you see it somewhere, how do you get there?
How what's the action plan to actually get there? So I think for all of us, we all have different experiences. We all have a different path to that, to getting to where we are. We can take an hour a week. When you think about all the things that you do in a week, an hour is nothing. Our hour is about to wrap up.
And it's can you take an hour to just sit with somebody and just ask them how are they doing? Even being able to just take an interest in somebody is enough to change the trajectory of where they go and then how they interact with the next person in their community. I agree.
I agree. I like that. There's so much power if we just reach out a hand and say, who else isn't coming? Yep. Who else needs help? Guys like this, I have goosebumps repeatedly throughout this entire conversation it's been so inspiring and gr generous and I'm so thankful that everyone showed up and in particular that.
The four of you were so willing to share and be honest and tell us where you're at and what you think. 'cause that's what we have to do more of. I'm going to share my screen again so that everyone can see your websites and your Instagram handles so that people who want to can reach out to you and connect and support you.
I look forward to the opportunity to have you as guests on The Powerful Ladies Podcast. And I also wanna let everyone know that as you requested all of you at the beginning of this conversation, we are committed to continuing this conversation. We've already put on the calendar two more.
Like this. I'd love to have you guys back and we can add more people and change it up. I'll be asking for the panelists feedback after, but we have them scheduled for July 24th and then October exactly about one month before the election, which is very much on purpose. I look forward to seeing you guys at those next two events.
And if there's anything that myself or Power Ladies can do to support any of you, please reach out and let us know. And I hope to see all of you guys soon and I please report back about what action you're taking and what's inspired you, and we'll make sure this all gets shared. Thank you so much everybody.
Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Related Episodes
Episode 75: Has Anything Changed? | Powerful Conversation on Racism in America | Sharifah Hardie, Mikelle Drew, Chandra Gore, Kristen Fenrick & Lauren Wilson
Episode 173: A Powerful Conversation Series - Racism: Has Anything Changed? | Ronda Brunson, Chandra Gore & Lauren Wilson | Roundtable Panel
Episode 111: A Powerful Conversation About America, Racism - Stop Asian Hate
You can follow & connect with our panelists on Instagram here:
Sharifah Hardie @sharifahhardie
Ronda Brunson @msbrunson_creditqueen
Mikelle Drew @383design
Chandra Gore @cgoreconsults
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
