Episode 311: Thinking of Startng a Podcast? | Judith Kargbo | Writer & Senior Producer at Sirius XM
Judith Kargbo is a powerhouse in the podcasting world, an acclaimed writer, senior producer at SiriusXM, and a trusted voice behind shows like Best Friends and Scam Goddess. In this episode, Kara and Judith explore what it takes to create meaningful, high-quality content in today’s saturated podcast industry. They talk about audio integrity, personal boundaries, industry gatekeeping, and how podcasting can both empower and exclude depending on who’s behind the mic. Judith shares her journey from Delaware to Los Angeles, the lessons she’s learned in navigating DEI conversations, and why she believes showing up authentically is the most powerful thing you can do. This episode explores podcast production, diversity in media, and creating content that truly connects.
“ Showing up as you are is a beautiful thing.”
-
-
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
(00:00:02) - Introduction and Overview of Podcasting Community
(00:00:21) - Judith Kargbo's Background and Career Journey
(00:02:00) - Navigating Diversity in Podcasting
(00:04:22) - The Emotional Labor of Women in Professional Spaces
(00:46:35) - Balancing Self-Care with Professional Responsibilities
(00:57:20) - Rapid Fire Questions and Final Thoughts
Attention to detail is helpful because in this medium you can hear it and I think in our like human sense, you can sense things about people when you feel that more people are drawn to it or can be repelled from it. Getting that quality audio and video is imperative for a lot of people.
That's Judith Kargbo. I'm Kara Duffy and this. Is the Powerful Ladies podcast.
I am so excited to be talking to you this morning. Everyone that Jordan has introduced me to in her life in general, but definitely since she's been in the podcasting space in LA have just been such nice people, first and foremost. Creative, but also there's this level of wanting to collaborate and support each other that you don't see in other industries in the same way. Like all the behind the scenes people who are getting things done are like, we're on a team, what do we have to do?
Yeah. I just, I was so quick to talk because I think what you're speaking to, honestly, is the is the integrity and the love that comes from Jordan, right? Oh, yeah. So Jordan is easy to work with. She's easy to love, she's super talented. And I, it's easy to see how when people are connected to her and you are greeted with her, that you receive all the positive things that you just said. So I think that's a testament to Jordan and the importance of finding your people in this industry, in any industry. 'cause you're right, many people come in with different personalities, different expectations, different viewpoints. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad, right? And so you have to connect with the people that. I don't want to sound too woo. But you're vibing with the vibrations. Yeah. You got the same vibe with, so Jordan is definitely that person.
I've been to a couple of live tapings with the Best Friends podcast. And yes, I've gotten backstage and I've I've met everyone and Nicole and Shahir were so caught off guard. 'cause I said, just thank you for being so nice to my sister. Yeah. And they were like, why wouldn't we be? I'm like, not everybody is yeah, it's, yeah.
The stereotypes in Hollywood exist for a reason and Yeah, to them they're like, why wouldn't we be like, you're a weirdo. Yeah. I'm like, just take the thank you because it's not normal. She like, loves working with them. I'm like, just yes. Thank you. Thank you for, honoring who my sister is. 'cause she is, she's a badass, like Yeah. Yeah. I get her funny. Looked into, it's funny, she's so funny. She's so funny and talented and smart, and I rope her into all my crazy ideas like many people do. And she's okay, so well, let's tell everybody that's a fact. It is, right? So let's tell everybody your name, where you are in the world, what you're up to.
Yeah, so I'm Judith Kargbo. I am currently right now in Los Angeles, California. California. California, specifically North Hollywood. And I am currently a senior producer at Sirius xm. I have produced podcasts best Friends where I met Jordan. I've worked on Scam Goddess with Lacey Mosley. I currently work on a show called The Optimist Project with Ya, Shahidi.
And I've also worked on a show, which I also work with Jordan the Fuckery with Leslie Jones and Lety Marcus. So I've, that's how I met Jordan. But in general, I'm out here creating shows podcast shows. I would love to create television shows. That's the real reason why I actually transitioned out here to be a television writer and still on that journey. Yeah. And yeah, this is where I'm at in the world mentally. I am, whew. I am all over the place in the world because of a lot of what's happening right now. But I'm also in a place of gratitude, right? I have a job, I have good connections with the people that I've worked with, and I try to make authentic connections as much as possible. In this industry, in any industry, quite frankly, those have been the ones that tend to work out for me. The ones that are like, oh, we met in this professional setting, but. I think we can be friends, shall we be friends? Let's be friends. It's like it's usually those kind of relationships that work out the best.
Now that I've been working for, from home for pre covid, so for years, yeah. I didn't realize how much of my social circle was coming from who I was meeting with in real life at the office and things like that. So I'm still continuing that trend where a lot of my clients are friends and it's very ancestral in the sense of clients are working together and hiring each other. And we're keeping our bubble going that way. But it is really interesting to be pivoting to like, now I have to go out and meet people in real life versus just not Zoom. And I'm like, oh, that's so funny to think about how do we make friends as an adult when it's not from work? And luckily there's all sorts of apps that do that now, and just the power of even asking friends like, Hey, I think I need some new people in my circle. Can, let's go out to dinner, but bring somebody, I don't know. Yes. That's a fun game to play too.
Yes, I agree with you.
So I'm curious, like where did you grow up that you came to LA to chase your dreams?
Yeah, so I was born in Brooklyn, New York, but I grew up in Newcastle, Delaware. So my family moved when I was like a lot younger. Like I left New York around like three, but they, we, they moved, I think to the Virginia Maryland area. And from there my mom was a nurse and my father was working for, I don't know how what he was doing actually.
But eventually when we got to Delaware, he worked for a bank. So he worked for MBNA at the time. Now it's bank of America. Yeah. Yeah, I, yeah, I grew up in Delaware. It was very interesting because in that transition from going from the Virginia, Maryland area to Delaware was. Contrasting for me in the sense of first, second grade I was in school and it was very diverse. Like the DMV area is it's so diverse in terms of when you're talking about like Hispanic community, black community, African community Ethiopian community, like it all breaks down, in different races, but also ethnicities. And then when I came to Delaware, it was just like black or white.
Which is still diversity, but it was the ethnic part came. Wasn't really acknowledged. You are either this or that, right? And so if you, I came in and my mom is from Haiti, my father's from Sierra Leone, so I'm first born generation here. The idea of blackness was different in my household Yeah.
Than when going into school. And so being confronted with those ideas, and not understanding as a child, for me, it was a color, it was a literal color. So I'm like, I don't know what you're telling me right now. I don't even compute that being a personality trait, that was very confusing for me.
But, eventually you hit the hard knocks, especially middle school. Oh my god. Middle school is I think middle school should be illegal. It's crazy in there. Wild. You learn through socializing with other kids. You navigate through that stuff, whether it's bullying or making friends or favorite teachers, not so favorite teachers.
You, you just, you maneuver through that and eventually, become who you are, through high school. So I feel like that was a major difference for me, but I was able to like, navigate through. And then once I got to high school, I was like, I am leaving this state. Whatever it takes, I'm getting outta here.
So yeah, from there I went to Catholic University of America in Washington DC And so that shift back to that area where there's like different forms of diversity just in your face all the time was a helpful shift for me.
I, I had a similar kind of experience through school of starting out in very diverse places and it being so normal.
And then like we continue to move into more. White places, not intentionally. It just happened to be when we showed up who was there. And for me it was so odd. I was like, where are all the people who are white? Like this is this normal for you guys? And being a like a white female.
I was like, there wasn't like, I didn't feel threatened or at risk, I just felt bored. I was like, this is, we're like, what do you mean we don't talk about these cultures in school? What do you mean we don't? Yeah. Like I, growing, I was outside of Philadelphia for most of elementary school and middle school.
And we would, talk about Jewish holidays, we would talk about christian holidays we would talk about Yeah. Kwanza Persian new Year. Like all these things we like, were allowed to talk about all of it. Yeah. And maybe that was the, one of the good things about the eighties was like we just talked about it all because we were integrating Yeah.
All these different cultures. And then it seemed like the switch happened in the late nineties where it was like, don't talk about things anymore. And you're like, what? Why? Yeah. Yeah. Kids are way smarter than we're giving them credit for one, to your point, they can see that we are different colors even if we don't give a shit as kids.
Yeah. Yeah. But also, like they, we all know what everyone celebrates. Why are we pretending that we're not different? Or why are we pretending we don't have different family stories? Yeah, and I think you brought up a really great point of the fact that, because right now in the US it seems like we can't talk about the different experiences of different ethnicities, different races.
We're forgetting that there is such nuance between them. In addition, yeah, you have a completely different family story than someone who was forced to come here. And yeah, we need to talk about that at a, I don't know why we're ashamed to talk about the truth of things, but yeah, this is me slamming my head against the wall.
I'm sure you like just are. You probably just can't even more, you're like, I just need to protect myself.
In some ways yes. And in some ways I totally agree with you. I think children are incredibly smart and the thing that gets lost when we don't have that dialogue, that conversation is context. Yeah. And I think people don't understand how to explain that context, but it's like also kids are incredibly smart.
And if you give them that, they can put that together and even make their own decisions, right? Yeah. But even, put things together in a way. So I think there's a lot of unfortunate fear in the conversation. Unfortunately, a lot of shame unfortunately in the conversation. And I think there's better ways to communicate that.
Yeah, I think so too. I just, I'm someone who just likes to pull the truth out and ask the hard questions and just talk about it anyway. Yeah. I actually saw a post, like when I, what I liked about, I considered Boston Home at this point, 'cause that's where we finished high school. I went to college in Massachusetts, actually a school that did a lot of competitions with Catholic University, especially in basketball.
So it was like a recurring rivalry between our men's basketball teams, but. There, there was a woman posted a video how she went to a bar. It was to have a drink before she went home. Only knew the bartender there, made friends with everyone else at the bar. They all got enrolled in her blind date.
She was going on. Everyone was talking about it, and I love that. I think like when you grow up on the, in the, at least for sure, Boston, I think New York and the Northeast is like this a little bit too, where people talk to each other, like strangers talk to each other. Yeah. And they can, they don't think twice about maybe asking questions that, at least here on the West coast, you would never ask someone like you, there's a level of Yeah.
Strangers get involved. Yeah. And I think there's something about. Strangers getting involved and not being like asking questions that would be horrifying to people on the West Coast that Yeah. But there's something healthy about it. Like the places where we've been having dialogue about what is America since the 16 hundreds, it keeps going.
Yeah. And like, why did we stop doing that? Like the whole democracy is supposed to be based on dialogue, not Yeah. Ignoring the truth and then telling everyone to look over here instead, you're like no. Yeah. No.
Yeah. I completely agree.
I wanna come back to you 'cause you have a successful career in podcasting. You're working on some of these really incredible shows with really great hosts who are a really who are examples of why podcasting is great, because there's many people who have podcast shows that. May not get options to tell their stories and talk to the people whose stories they wouldn't tell otherwise.
So podcasting has been great of bringing more diversity into media and there's also so many things that still need to get better about that. So how do you, being in it, how do you what do you think the truth is about diversity in podcasting and where it needs to go?
Yeah. One, thank you for all those kind of words about my career.
One, the good thing about podcasting and in as it relates to diversity is the threshold, the entry for it to get in is low, right? Just need a mic. You need access to the internet, which a lot of us have, some of us don't. We need to work on that. But you can, without any sort of backing from, a corporate entity backing from, an entertainment production.
You can do your podcast. You're a great example of that. You don't need anyone to tell you, you had a vision, you had a plan, you're setting it up, you've done it, you're doing it. And you can build your audience from there. That's a great, so you get so many different types of people doing that.
So I think that's a great thing about podcasting and the evolution of it. I think in my personal experience, as it gets tied to, I would say corporate entities, depending on where you work, where you don't work past experiences, whose voice they value and whose voice is considered a risk, is where the gap is, right?
In terms of okay, who are we gonna invest in? Who do we wanna invest in? And that's not everyone. Sure. It's not a full, rule of thumb, but I've noticed that it feels like if you're more of a diverse voice that isn't just a straight up celebrity you're just, that's just considered a risk, right?
There's always someone wanting to, especially if you're on, the business side or development side, you wanna shore up any sort of risk that you have in terms of investing into a show and getting that return back. And I feel like that's just the culture of Hollywood, quite frankly. Yes. Making money.
Hollywood in general. And also the mis misperceptions about that, right? Because I've seen podcasts, big names huge. And we've seen it in movies, we've seen it in so many different mediums. You can have huge names that doesn't guarantee that it's a hit. No. That's just sometimes it is, sometimes it's not.
And so to justify putting in that investment, a lot of people shore that up, 'cause they're afraid, right? You don't wanna invest in something and it's big and it doesn't, pan out the way you want it to be. And so I think the idea that, black shows, Hispanic shows native and indigenous show, whatever, in, those forms, podcasts, form, whatever, feel across the board, whether it's podcasts, entertainment, whatever, it's like it's still a risk.
It's still a niche. Even though there have been examples beyond that, we have very successful, black podcast where you're looking at the Breakfast Club, whether you're looking at the re, whether you're looking at who, in so many different spaces, no Cole by very successful, but lacey Mosley, who I worked with, so many different, people of color who have successful shows. Yet, yet, and still because everyone is trying to shore up their risk can go back to those old tropes of those kind of people don't really listen to podcasts or these kind of, even though no. All types of people listen to podcasts. We have so many different types of podcasts that are successful, of different backgrounds, of different voices of, whatever it may be. So I think. We have to like buck against the, what is the idea of a safe show? Who's hosting that?
I think that will always be around, but I think in order for, again, di diversity in these spaces you just have to be intentional about it. And unfortunately, that trend is going away with the sort of language of DEI and all that stuff. Luckily for me, I feel like I'm at a place that still believes in that, believes in diverse voices, but still believes in that.
But like you're seeing that kind of be escape goat for many things. You see that kind of being, pushed against.
Yeah.
Meaning we don't really need to invest in that, but I am hopeful because other voices are saying actually you do, and if you don't, my dollars will go somewhere else and you will feel it. So yeah,
It's really, it's it's frustrating, right? Because there's the push of. Knowing that these stories are so important to tell. Yeah. And I think even when we look at, okay, cool, we could have different diversity of who the hosts are. Okay. That's like level one. And then it goes to, do we have diversity in what the conversations are?
Yeah. Because even within that, it's oh, you're a comedy podcast. Okay, move over here. Oh, you're gonna talk about true crime. Great move over here. The types of conversations, no matter who's hosting it, that are getting support are also very homogenous. And yeah. They're, it's so hard to carve out space to talk about real things that are that I think people who control the money think are more nuanced when you're like no, this is what we're all talking about on a regular basis. Yeah. You've just never tried to market it before. That's different. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that there's levels of. It's almost like when the pushback about affirmative action like or dEI hiring. Okay, cool. You don't wanna have to have those metrics that we're meeting. You don't wanna have to have that be a part of it. Then we have to change where the source students and candidates are coming from. Are you doing the work to find, truly find the best people or just the easy people and, I think it's really interesting to be looking at where podcast networks are committing to curating and building new, truly new listeners versus just more, yeah. And yeah I think that's an interesting conversation right now. Because to your point, there's even just the privilege of people who listen to podcasts usually have a commute.
And you're like, what about the people who are taking a bike to work or, yeah, on a loud bus, like it's not just people in their car listening. It's just super, it's very interesting to me to see how it's working, what people are committing to, and just even. Where else are you telling people about podcasts besides Times Square?
Yeah. You, to your point now that podcasting, the great thing is podcasting is so accessible, but now it's saturated, right? Yeah. Anyone has, everyone, literally, everyone has a podcast, which is not a good or bad, right? Wherever it is. But now you have to break through. The average person, depending on what they're listening to on every day has maybe two or three shows that they, that's their go-to, right?
Yeah. So how do you grab that listener and that listener is trying to get through life, right? They're trying to get to, they're trying so many distractions before they even get the headphones on. Then they got the headphones on. Which show are you picking, right? So I think a lot of folks are seeing that one, you have to put in more dollars into marketing.
You gotta, you have to be more intentional where you market. Shout out to our marketing team. They know that cross promos and host read promos, right? If Kara, you read something and you're like, you know what, listen to Jordan Duffy's podcast. She's, your listeners trust you enough. You built that relationship enough where you can actually see the numbers be like, oh, actually a lot of my listeners went to go listen to Jordan's podcast or Judas podcast, or, that is the way, because at least in podcasting, it is a very intimate medium, right? It is taking place between your ears. And so even though the person is far away, there's still this relationship that's being built and the people that do it the best, that engage their audiences the best are the ones that show continue to grow their shows.
We have many examples of that. One, at least for our roster, Mel Robin, she's killing it right now. She is like through the roof and one of the things that I've seen her do just in general, she's going to those big podcasts, right? She's making herself available. She is also get my book.
You know what I mean? She is, she's engaging her audience. She's a halfway way and growing it. Yes. Yeah. You have to put in that work. And a lot of those successful podcasts, those are the similar formulas and consistency. So you're right, it's saturated. You gotta find different ways to market and get in where you know where you fit in, but continue to grow your audience.
I'm sure that you've also noticed, as I have, that the second you are part of the podcasting world. All these people show up in your life and they're like, I wanna start a podcast. What do I do? Yes. And yeah. I am someone who believes in all possibilities.
Yeah. The full spectrum of possibilities, sure. Yeah. And I lead those conversations with a lot of caution because nobody understands how much work goes into a podcast. Hundred percent. So if someone's out there thinking, Ooh this sounds fun, like Karen, Judith are just having a great morning together, I wanna do that.
Yeah. What advice do you give people to really assess if podcasting is something that they should put time and effort and money into?
Yeah, no, that's a great question and I'm glad you like, acknowledge the work that goes into it. I think it's different when people consume things and don't understand what it takes to like, make what you're consuming because it's so quick, it's so fast nowadays.
So with podcasting one, if someone is interested in podcasting, I would say before you become a host, go on shows that you're comfortable with, right? So if you have a friend who has a pocket, go see what it's like to be a guest on that show, right? Understand what you're bringing to the table. And two, if you're serious about it, you can, depending on who your friends are, you can.
Knowingly and unknowingly start building your audience, right? Yeah. If you're a guest enough, like people recognize you and they love you and they wanna hear from you, like that's a way to, to expand your reach, right? So that way when you're going to make your own, you actually can go back to your friends and be on their shows.
I think a great example of that I used to work for Starburns Audio, and that's how I transitioned into podcasting. There were a podcasting network and they were able to bring on the Miss Pat show. Miss Pat has a podcast called the Po. The Pat Down. She's a hilarious comedian a great perspective.
She's she can say all the politically incorrect things and I'm. Cracking up. I could never say them. I would be locked away somewhere. She can say them and it is hilarious. And she has a serious she has been through the mud. Like she has her own story, a book again. So I first knew of her because she went on other podcasts, right?
One of some of her friends are like Joe Rogan, like some of these big podcasters. And she was always on the breakfast club. I was always seeing her. I was like, oh, I was seeing her. So when she launched her podcast, I was like, oh yes, I wanna listen. I've already heard her on all these other podcasts.
I would love to talk, I would love to hear her perspective. So as, and when she launched she launched big for our network, right? So it's because she was already, I don't know if it was knowingly or unknowingly already doing the work to promote herself and be in these spaces. And so when she had her own sort of podcast.
It was easy. I knew her perspective. I knew where she was coming from. I knew I was gonna laugh, and if it's a comedy podcast, here I come. So it was just, it was that natural. You have to have that hustler spirit, right? If you're gonna do it. If you don't know production it's a low bar.
You don't have to, you don't have to know everything. So if you do want to learn a little bit understanding of the production and the audio and everything, understand that editing takes time. So if you're gonna be an editor, rather video or audio, you have to make space for that time and really evaluate your bandwidth.
And if you real with yourself, you say, yes, I have the bandwidth to do that, create that time. And if you don't, then. That's okay. We have producers, we have audio editors, we have, you know what I mean? Yeah. So then it's okay, if you're gonna do that, how much are you willing to invest and pay these people for their skills?
And what kind of workflow are you gonna put in your place for you to keep going? So depending if it's a seasonal or continual, you need to make sure that you have the support that you need. Whether it's okay, who's gonna be the audio engineer? Is it me? Is it someone else Who's gonna be the video engineer and editor?
Is it me? Is it someone else? Are we going to be consistent every week? If we are going to be consistent every week, what does my life look like so I can make the time to interview people or to talk to my friends?
Yeah.
As much as a lot of people do it, it's easy piece peasy. Other people are in different places, right? I'm not a, I don't have any children, but my God, anybody who has one child doing anything else. I lift you up, I pray for you. You're probably killing it. But it is a lot of work, like depending on what your life looks like. So you have to be real with yourself. You have to figure out what time I need to put aside.
You have to figure out what help will I need. And you also have to understand what does success look like to you, right? Are you doing this podcast so you can be a star and you can get all the clicks and whoop. If that's the case I don't know that usually it's a long game, right?
You're gonna be building that up, right? And even though for some people it may look like overnight success and maybe it is, some people do have overnight success. I'm not gonna PPO on that, and I am going to speak that on whoever's life who wants that. But usually it's a long game. Usually it takes a long time to build your audience and you have to evaluate your commitment to going that long.
You also have to evaluate your business model. Yeah. If you're doing this and you're putting a lot of work in and you're expecting money back, make sure you know what that business, whether it's ad dollars, whether it's sponsors, do you know how to set that up? Do you know? You know what I mean? Start educating yourself, knowing what that is, and what if it's unsu?
That's okay. There are many people who started podcasts and didn't wanna do that. Then they started it again. It's okay. Yeah. That's okay too. But don't be so quick. If you have an expectation that you wanna get money from this, look at your business model. Understand how you're gonna get that money and try to connect with the people so that you can set that up for yourself and try and achieve that goal, right?
And know that you're the author and finisher of your podcast journey, right? It's okay. I started a podcast and then I stopped. 'cause I was like, I'm tired. Yeah. I can't do this no more. And that's okay. It's fine. Other people are like, no, I have a vision. I have a voice, I have a pers perspective.
I'm gonna keep going. Those people, I'm like, and I'm in like, but that, it all depends on your vision, what you want, but make sure you research on the time, the resources that you need to do it. And. Evaluate where you are in your life so that you can meet those expectations and goals for yourself.
Yeah. I think that everyone, to your point, significantly underestimates the time. And how many hours go into even a 45 minute show, it's hours of inviting people, getting people to say yes, coordinating with them. It's hours of editing, it's hours of formatting and prepping, it's hours of marketing.
There's I would guess on, in the powerful ladies world that for every hour we record, there's at least six other hours that go into each episode. At least that's when it's smooth. And like we've had episodes that have been. For whatever reason turned into a little bit of a shit show, like bad audio or we, like someone kept interrupting the session on the guest side and we had to chop everything up and that takes forever 'cause you're steaming it back together. So it sounds smooth. There's a lot that goes into it. And I also think and underestimating the hours. I think it, it's a very, it's a easy entry point for people who wanna just jump in and start.
But the making it into an actual media component, like the storytelling Yes. The journalism. Yes. The pacing, like thinking about how people actually consume it and, can you do your, can you get your topic discussed at a fast enough clip in 20 minutes, or do you need 45 and Right. Do you need two hours?
It's really interesting to think about all these nuances that. The, all the best shows are following some formulas, just like any other product that people know are consumable that we like that land. And there's a lot more of that psychology component that I think people also skip over.
'cause yeah. The easy part is sitting down with someone you like and talking, that's easy. Hit record. Cool. If you have good mics, it'll sound great. Fine. Even if it sounds all over the place. But there's a lot of layers. And I think like many businesses too, just because you build it doesn't mean anyone's gonna come.
So a hundred percent the building, your audience comes before you can make money often and I think people don't realize how many people are using their podcasts for marketing purposes, which is an investment. And not a revenue generator. Very different. Yep. Yep. 'cause you, even when you were mentioning Mel Robbins, you're like, oh, she's selling her book.
Oh, she's selling something else. She's being successful as a podcaster 'cause of all, everything she built prior to as well. But it's, it is one thing in her funnel that's like they're all compounding with each other at this point. Yeah. 'cause of the work she's done. Yeah. For every piece of her value ladder.
But yeah, it also is what makes us, makes me really proud about this podcast. 'cause what is it less than 3% of podcasts ever cross over the 300 episode mark. And it's bananas like, but there's so much like grit and determination and you gotta keep doing it anyway. There are days you wake up and I'm like, Ugh, do I wanna do podcast today?
And then I'm always, I'll be grumpy and then I'll get there and be like, I love this. I love these people. Always. I've all, but it's like anything else. It becomes, yeah, some days it's a job and some days it's fun.
Hundred percent.
I think like anything good, like what does your grit and determination look like?
Yes, a hundred percent. And the consistency, I think you got to where you are because you kept doing it. I knew when it was like, this is the date and time I record. I was like, woo. Easy peasy. I already knew, right? So I already knew. I was like okay, we're ready to go. Because once consist, once you're doing it co consistently, you set up a workflow for yourself. That's how you make it easier for yourself. Yeah.
No and plus it's not the only thing we're doing. Yes, I have three businesses I'm running recording the podcast is like step Yes. Four out of 20 to make the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So we have to like, we're so structured about where everything goes and what the handoff is and you like. It's we have such a small team. We're not, we're independent, we're not on a network, but there's still anywhere between three to five people that touch each episode, depending on where we are. And people can be very generous for very long, but I gotta pay all these people who are touching it.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it can be, there's a lot of steps and a lot of things that go into it, especially when you're committed to making something that's quality. Yeah. I'm part of the, one of many reasons I'm so thankful for Jordan is that she is such a perfectionist about the audio. To the point now that.
I am so boujee about audio at this point because of her and I will sometimes listen to celebrity podcasts or like a podcast that's like blowing up and I listen. I listen to one episode, I can't even make it through 15 minutes. I'm like, who is there? Audio engineer who allowed this sound to be happening?
1000%. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Jordan has stepped my audio taste up for sure. Yeah. And it, it comes from like knowledge and we live in a society where you get feedback very quickly. I've read a couple comments where it's like did y'all master mix this? And I'm like not this teacher calling us out, my God.
But that is the people. People know what quality is. People know, knows what it sounds like. When you have a good mix, people knows what it sounds like. When you're authentic, people knows what it sounds like When you're tired, people knows what it sounds. Yeah. They know what it sounds like when you're not engaged, so that attention to detail is helpful because in this medium you can hear it. And I think in our like, human sense, you can sense things about people. Yeah. You can sense it. And so once you, when you feel that more people are drawn to it or can be repelled from it, so yeah, attention to detail about that audio quality, even though we are moving into a lot of video, it's a big shift in podcasting. It's been happening for a while, but even that, getting that quality audio and video is imperative for a lot of people.
It's been the biggest battle that we're having currently with our podcast because e everyone's we want video, like studio video of the Pathways podcast.
And I go, yes, and I'm happy to make that investment when we hit certain metrics. So we're working really hard to hit those metrics. Yeah. But layering on high quality video can like 10 x the cost of every episode. Yep. Yep. And then it also makes it super annoying from a scheduling perspective because Yeah, it limits what guests you can have because now is everybody flying in?
Are you paying for people to fly in? We talked to women all over the globes. We've talked to a woman on a boat before for crying out loud and yeah, like our, the Zoom video isn't good enough to like make it a video podcast. It's good for marketing. It's good for short clips. But to really have that studio level podcast, it would completely change who we get, how quickly we can get them.
Yeah. What like, and not even the cost. Like it's almost just like logistically it shifts everything. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it's really interesting what podcasts are just like, no, we're just gonna be audio forever. We like showing up no makeup, pajamas whenever we need to. Wherever we need to. And that's, yeah.
I put, I get ready, I put clothes on 'cause we do use this video for things. Yes. But yeah, it's so nice to be for anyone in the world to be able to say yes. 'cause to me the conversation is more important than the video part still. Yes. And maybe that's, maybe this is me being old school with my podcasting approach.
Yeah. But yeah, it's a big battle right now. We've been talking to networks, we've been talking to different sponsors and yeah, it keeps coming up and I'm like. Cool. If you guys are gonna pay for it, we can talk about it, but until you're paying for it, like we, we just it's such a investment.
It's a huge investment in time and I think a lot of people are trying to figure out what are the cost benefits, if that is the push.
And also knowing that some guests, listen, I woke up this morning, I knew I was gonna be on podcast. I said, let put these lashes on. Let me hit the girls up with a fake lash. Okay? Not everybody wants to always show up like that, right? Yeah. Not everybody, sometimes it depends on how you feel.
And I think for women, people in general you we're constantly thinking about our appearance and the freedom of podcasts when you don't have to think about what you look like and you can just share authentically. There's a beauty in that, right? And I know some people didn't care. Like I worked with Leslie Jones.
Super confident in herself, in her ability, in her talent. She'd show up with no makeup. Sometimes she'd show up with makeup sometimes, some people just, it getting used to just showing up as you are right, is a beautiful thing. But depending on who you're working with, like actors, right?
They're constant, like literally their bread and butter is about. What they look like, right? So sometimes it's okay, how do we tackle this thing? And is the, is it worth it? Is it worth it in terms of the cost that you gotta put into it and what you could potentially get out? And I think that's something each podcaster has to make for themselves.
And I think what you're demonstrating is it's okay to be like, right now it's not. I hear you. Yeah. Right now it's not. And that's okay. We're gonna build to it. If it is worth that cost. And I think that's important to do instead of just looking at every trend and just jumping on it, you have to make sure that you can sustain it yourself along with your team that you built to do that. So I think that's super smart, a super smart way of looking at how you're going to transition from one medium to the next.
And it's lay, it's layering another element of privilege into a medium that. As we talked about earlier, was supposed to be open to everyone in easy entry.
Yeah. And yeah, suddenly it's moving into, oh, now we're making a TV show. And you're like so that's not what we, that wasn't, yeah. That's not the space we're in, of course, like humans, like watching other humans that's just the ape version of who we are. And it, it does, it's like shifting into, oh, only people who are already like highly profitable can like layer in the video part, or it's just, it's adding it's reducing the, how anyone can jump in and do it space, which I think is too bad because they're, again, the freedom of doing it. Even like Mike Rowe, when he's done his his show, he's I'm literally recording this under two towels in a hotel room in a closet because I'm traveling for work right now. And we wanted to keep our recording schedule. And like that freedom to create content wherever you need to be based on everything else that's going on.
It does start to reduce the flexibility and freedom and spontaneity that can come with this with the audio only podcast meeting. Yeah. So I'm curious to see like how things shake out with all of that.
Yeah.
I wanna hear more about you and your perspective on what it means to be a powerful lady. Like how would you define that? What do those words mean to you?
Ooh, that's a great question. I think. For me, being a powerful lady means being authentic to yourself and how you show up in spaces as much as possible. But also always saying close to wisdom as much as you, as much as you can. I think personally as women or women presenting people we have a showing up is i, depending on the space, can be a lot of emotional labor, can be a lot of it, depending on where you are. You are constantly, at least in my experience scanning your surroundings and making sure, okay, is this space safe for me? I know for me how am I showing up in this space? What's my purpose in this space?
Can I be me in this space? And I love women. I think my sister is like this. No matter what space she's in, it don't matter. She, that's who she is. Ferida, Martha Kargbo. Shout out to her. Yes, I said your middle name. So yeah, I think those are the women that I, I. I think are powerful, where it's yes, I know what's happening around me.
I'm using wisdom, but I'm standing in who I am and how I am in this space no matter what. If that means I'm someone who's chill and I don't want to do the most, that's what you're gonna get. So be it. If that means, Nope, I'm here to make a, I'm here to make a scene and I'm, and that's what it's gonna be.
Or I'm here to, I'm here to observe, I, whatever that is for you, to unapologetically show up as yourself in that space. I respect people like that and admire that a lot.
We talked a little bit before we hit record about the insanity of the world right now, and I just, what makes me mad about what's happening, yeah. Especially at the US federal government level is that I already had a to-do list that was gonna take me a lifetime. To get through. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, y'all are adding an entire other to-do list of shit that I have to do on a regular basis to maintain the sanity of all the other great things we're trying to do in the world.
And women have always done the good work. They've always done the hard work. Yeah. It's just, we just keep going because that is what we have done for centuries. We just keep going. Yeah. And somebody, we've been talking a lot about how are we staying sane? How are we balancing creating all the great stuff that we already had on our 2025 to-do list Yeah.
While also being like checked into what's happening and not tolerating it. So how are you walking through these spaces of Yeah. What the hell's going on? And oh, I still got big things. I'm up to that need my attention too, including just ourselves and
Yeah, absolutely. Right now, I think I'm doing a horrible job at it.
I ain't gonna lie. I am scrolling too much on TikTok. I am too plugged in. I am I need to do what? I, I heard RuPaul say, you can look at it, but don't stare. And I'm definitely in staring mode and because I'm feeling the ramifications of that, I'm going to be shifting. So it's okay, I'm not the person that.
Needs to be informed. 'cause I'm always gonna be informed, right? I'm the person that needs to put up a barrier to protect myself just a little bit, just a little reprieve, right? As the kids say, touch grass, I need to touch grass. I will, I need to touch grass. You had, I forget her name, you had someone I need to breathe with.
The young lady you had on who I need to do all of those things. And I think a lot of us need to be real about where we are, right? Are we staring? Are we looking, understanding and then touching grass? Are we balancing? So for me, I'm having a hard time with that, but I'm about to put those things in place for myself so that I have balance and remind myself that, okay, yes, horrible things are happening right now, but I am here.
I still have a opportunity to go after my dreams. I still have a opportunity to continue building the skills that I need to either further my career or to further my own creativity and the stuff that like drives my purpose, period, right? I still have that opportunity. So how can I, in my own power, in my own personal way.
Tap into those things that feed me, that uplift me, but still be informed when I need to be. Because I don't believe in denial. I think denial in any case, or delusion, has quite frankly added to the problems that we're experiencing right now. So I don't wanna be that person that's oh, everything's fine.
I'm just gonna, watch blues clues all day. I don't know why it's blues clues, but that's, I'm gonna just, and it's okay. Sometimes you need to escape. I will put on a severance baby. I will put on, I will, separate. But I wanna have that balance and know okay I still am a empowered, powerful lady, right?
There are things that I can do and there are things that I don't need to do. For my own mental health, quite frankly, maybe I won't be at a protest. But you know what I haven't been to Target for a long time. There are different ways that we can show up to protect ourselves and really invest in ourselves and still be acknowledge.
Okay. This is what's happening in the world. Maybe I need to, put some more dollars away right now because these tariffs are making this economy look crazy, right? Maybe I need to be more intentional about the products that I buy, right? Maybe if you wanna, even be positive about that.
It's you know what? I've always loved Costco. I'm gonna go pull up at Costco anyway. You know what I mean? I'm continue to give positive affirmation to the things I do right? Instead of I don't like this, I don't like this, but I do like this, so I'm gonna invest in that. I'm gonna invest it in myself in this way.
And for some people it's different, right? Some people right now, they got a fire in them and they need, if that's you and you have that capacity, go to the town halls, right? Go to, sign up for whatever show up, start talking. If you have that fire, if you have that bandwidth, and if you don't have that bandwidth, that's okay.
It's crazy right now. You should, you might need to touch grass with me. We might all need to just go touch grass and mine your business and go back or be intentional. You know what I mean? That is okay. And I'm trying to remember for myself, we're all trying our best right now.
I wanna, the grace that I need, I wanna give to my other fellow man, human being because there's this culture of cruelty. Yes. That is really popular right now. And it's not healthy for us as a, a people, as a, in human beings. I'm just talking about human being. It is not healthy for us to be cruel to one another all the time.
Yeah. It is just, it's not, yes. Maybe in some places it'll get you the best engagement, and yes, it may make you viral, but it, when it comes to mental, emotional, physical, it is not good for us to just be okay, to be harmful. We're supposed to be in community with one another despite what. Things that we prove to be successful.
Yeah, transparency. I'm not doing good at it, but I plan on putting things in place so that I can see it, but still invest in myself so I'm not weary and sad, right? What's happening is sad. Straight up. It's scary. It is harmful. And if you're feeling those feelings, it makes complete sense, right?
And it's up to you how you wanna show up and deal with those things. But all of us deserve to feel joy and love and safety, all of us deserve to have access to our economic needs, right? We're, all of us deserve that. So whichever way you can do that for yourself, and if you have the bandwidth to step in where you think you need to fight and you think you need to do that, and make sure you have that community to protect you so that we're not in this you don't feel like you're in this alone.
'cause I think loneliness and that, that thing that will take you out before anything else if you're not careful with that.
And I think sometimes we forget that not doing something, being a no is resistance.
Yes.
Because it's easier to cut something out than to take a new action. So Yes. It's, when you see things that are happening, just be like, no.
There's a, there's, yeah, I saw a meme that kind of summarizes way more articulately than I'm going to right now, but they were like, listen, if you wanna be, if you wanna protest, be a 6-year-old. We're gonna do this. No. Yeah. I'm just a no. I'm gonna be a no. The whole way through.
I'm gonna be super annoying about it. I'm just gonna be a no. And I'm proud that so far, 25% of Americans have shifted their shopping habits because of this. And just not going to target, not going to Amazon, like not buying and supporting, using our dollar to, to vote in a sense matters And there's so many, like bookshop.org, like I've just made part of my daily habits.
It's okay, we use our five call apps. We annoy everybody in Congress and who needs to know what we're thinking right now? This is not okay. And then I'm gonna buy some band books and I'm gonna go back about the rest of my day. We have to minimize, we have to be informed, we have to contain it, and they have to come back to what am I doing to do what I know is the right thing right now?
Because there's more of us than them. There's more people doing good things than not. And when we're, it's it's, there's like an element of feeling like coat 2020 right now where Yeah. If you calm down and you're like, do I have shelter? Do I have food? Is my street safe?
Like you, we always have to like, minimize our perspective so much to rebuild that safety feeling. And then be like, okay, who in my neighborhood needs my help today? Who in my family or friend group needs my help today? Because sometimes it is just checking on people and being like, Hey, did you touch grass today?
Did you go outside? Did you just let let the sunshine hit you for a few minutes? Yeah. It's, and relying on this powerful lady's community, knowing that. Every woman who's been on this podcast is doing good work in their corner. It gives me so much relief to remember oh, there's 300 and something women I know who are, I know they're holding the line in their little corner of the world today.
We don't have to hold the to whole to-do list. We don't need to hold the future of our sanity and democracy and global peace. Yeah. Like on our own shoulders. And so I know when I get stressed out, I just try to visualize like all of us just holding hands because we are and I know that it's not just the women who have been on this podcast, but it's also their circle and their friends.
And, I, what we could times that by at least they, they each know at least 20 good people who are doing the same work. So you can start to think about the magnitude of that and the. Yeah. Not everyone can go to a protest. Not everyone can leave their job to go do those things.
Yeah.
Or their family or their kid, like whatever the circumstances are. So those of you that can go thank you, like we need it. And then for everyone else, like there's an act. It's like the joy of resistance and just doing the good work anyway. I think we're underestimating a little bit in what everyone's been talking about.
Yeah. Because we don't wanna, we can't be soft about these things, but at the same time we don't have to, I don't know, have the, there's a flow state that I think is. Maybe allowing women in what we do naturally to rise up right now for good. I'll go snap. That was good. Yes.
Agreed. So a few rapid fire things to wrap up for today. First is, we ask everyone where you rate yourself in the powerful lady scale. If zero is average everyday human and 10 is most powerful lady you can imagine, where would you rate yourself today and on an average day?
Ooh. I today I feel eight, but that's because I think I'm talking to you and I'm like, you know what? Yes. Powerful lady. That's me. Yes. Depending on the day, I think it's more like a 7.5. Yeah. 7.5. But it's just depends on transition, so yeah.
If there is a woman like you out there listening to this, what do you want her to know today?
Ooh. I want her to know that I love her. I really do, and I want the best for her. And I wanna encourage her to do whatever she needs to do to empower herself and put herself on the purpose that she wants to go on. And it's okay if that changes. And she is in control of what it looks like. And it's okay if it doesn't look like what she thought it would be. But as long as she is going on that journey, she is protecting herself. She is, going to brunch. She's living her best life. As long as she is in control of what she wants to do, then that is all that matters. Yeah.
This is a powerful, connected community. What is something on your to-do list? Your manifest list, your wishlist? Big, small, that you would like to ask this group to help you with.
You know what? I, that is a wonderful question. I'm like, stupefy, even I've heard, I was listening other, I was like she's gonna ask this question, and here I am. Like, what is something yes for this powerful ladies group. I would love to connect with folks who are writing, who are in the writer's room, who want to create TV shows.
I believe that is my passion. I am grateful to be able to do storytelling in podcast form and to help others do that. And I would love to do that in television form. And I would love to either be in the writer's room or develop shows that I think are reflective of who we are as a society and just to bring those stories to light.
So yes, anyone out there who would love to connect with me I'm sure at the end I'll give, all the ways to contact with me. But I would love to do that.
That was my next question for everyone who's now on your team and can't wait to be friends, how can they find, follow and support you?
Yeah. Judith Kargbo on LinkedIn, on Instagram, I am Jay Kargbo 13, so feel free to follow me there. I am not that active on TikTok. I'm just a warrior. I'm just over there tapping and sending love to everybody. Those are the two, two places you can find me. And yeah, I will give you even all that information you wanna put in your description as well so that people can get it there.
We always do. We put all the things so they can find you@thepowerladies.com. Yes. Yay. Yay. Thank you for waking up bright and early to hang out with me today. I'm so glad Jordan connected us. I'm so glad that you are one of those women doing the good work out there in the world and holding the line. But just thank you so much. I'm. I'm really glad that we've been connected and that your sparkle is out there. It's made my morning.
I appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. And shout out to Jordan. Anyone who's listening to this, please support her. She's an amazing indie pop singer. I am going to be celebrating her this weekend. Her album will be coming out and her single Nights like these, check her out. Spotify, apple. She is that girl. I love her so much.
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share it with a friend. Head to the powerful ladies.com where you can find all the links to connect with Judith and her podcast, as well as learn more about powerful ladies. Come hang out with us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies, and you can find me and all my socials@karaduffy.com.
I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
Related Episodes
Episode 195: Karen Duffy | Choosing Joy & Curiosity to Create a Beautiful Life
Episode 22: Jordan Duffy | Audio Engineer, Singer, Songwriter & Sister
Episode 260: Trusting Yourself | Access Your Knowing, Gain Confidence & Take Powerful Action
Instagram: @Judith Kargbo
LinkedIn: Judith Kargbo
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
