Episode 339: Decolonizing the Outdoors & Reclaiming Indigenous Identity | Ellen Bradley | Skier, Scientist & Filmmaker
Ellen Bradley is a skier, scientist, filmmaker, and proud member of the Tlingit Tribe who is redefining what it means to be an Indigenous leader in today’s world. Through her work, Ellen blends tradition, technology, and storytelling to decolonize outdoor spaces and reconnect Indigenous communities to their ancestral lands. In this episode, Kara and Ellen dive into the meaning of being Indigenous in 2025, the significance of the LandBack movement, and how young Indigenous people are using social media to share their stories and spark change. You’ll hear about Ellen’s inspiring journey, including her film Let My People Go Skiing, and how she’s building bridges between cultures through advocacy and art. This episode explores identity, justice, and the power of reclaiming space, both on the slopes and in society.
“My mission, at the end of the day, is helping to decolonize the spaces we call the outdoors, and bringing Indigenous peoples back to the lands where we belong, and using sport, particularly skiing, as my main way of doing all of that. ”
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Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to The Powerful Ladies Podcast
00:50 Meet Ellen Bradley: A Multifaceted Indigenous Leader
01:35 Ellen's Journey and Contributions
03:32 Cultural Heritage and Community Work
12:58 Navigating Activism and Partnerships
22:34 Challenges and Reflections on Capitalism
28:07 Challenges of Specialization in Western Science
28:58 Indigenous Knowledge and Systemic Thinking
29:50 The Importance of Holistic Approaches
32:11 One Person at a Time: Mentorship and Internships
34:16 Scaling Up: Mountain Access Program
35:36 Entrepreneurial Mindset for Social Good
37:49 Personal Reflections on Career Choices
40:30 Land Back: Reconnecting Indigenous People to Their Lands
46:08 Breaking Down Barriers in Outdoor Spaces
51:04 The Need for Nuanced Conversations
54:35 Upcoming Projects and How to Support
57:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Kara: Welcome to The Powerful Ladies Podcast. I'm Kara Duffy. Until You have exposure to present day Indigenous experiences, it can be a completely foreign and unconsidered concept. What does it mean to be Indigenous today? Why is land back a trending concept? How are young Indigenous people balancing or blending traditions and technology or even social media? I feel privileged to have been exposed to an assortment of Indigenous conversations, thought leaders and communities, and it's really changed my perspective in thinking about how different everyday situations, policy, uh, health access to land, like really shifts. You know my perspective versus considering the Indigenous experience. Today's guest, Ellen Bradley is a member of the Tlingit Tribe, a skier, storyteller, scientist, filmmaker, and is finding, evolving and [00:01:00] expanding how to be a leader in her community and a connector to those outside and the Indigenous worlds who are eager to support and create change.
Kara: Welcome to the Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Ellen: Hello. I'm excited to be here.
Kara: I'm excited that you're here as well. I got to see you speak at Mountain Film in 2024 and the amazing Shae when I was like, Shae, who on this list have we not gotten to talk to yet?
Kara: She's like, you have to talk to Ellen. And I was like, yes, thank you. So I'm so glad that she connected us and that you're here today. Um, let's begin by telling everyone your name, where you are in the world, and I mean you were up to a lot of things, so give us the whole list if you want to.
Ellen: Okay. So my name in English is Ellen Bradley and Tlingit it's Kakéin Shee . I'm currently living in Kiska, so the Rocky Mountains, um, up in Winter Park, Colorado. I do a lot of work here with the resort and with Icon Pass, getting more [00:02:00] native people out in the mountains, indigenizing these spaces. I have been at Mountain Film a few times. I think when you saw me, I was speaking on a hot or not.
Ellen: Coffee talk.
Kara: Yes, yes, yes. Mm-hmm.
Ellen: With a handful of other folks. I was there for a music video that I helped produced for Pattie Gonia, the drag queen Quinn Kristofferson, who's an incredible trans, um, Inupiaq Yup'ik singer who lives in Anchorage. Um, and then Yo-Yo Ma, which was such a powerhouse combo of people. And then I happened to be at Mountain Film again this year because I just finished working on my film that is titled Let My People Go Skiing.
Ellen: It was a very long project, very excited that it is now being screened in places and hopefully soon will be out in the world for everyone to see. Um, I. Um, I don't even know how to describe what I do. 'cause as you said, there have, I have my hat in a lot of places. I wear lots of hats. I throw my hats in, lots of rings.
Ellen: Um, my mission at the end of the day is, [00:03:00] um, helping to decolonize these spaces that we call the outdoors. Um, bringing Indigenous peoples back to the lands where we belong, um, and really utilizing sport skiing, uh, as my like main modem for doing all those things. But I also enjoy doing a lot of other things we would call outdoor rec.
Ellen: Um, I am a scientist and I've worked in different science fields for a long time. Um, right now kind of more focused on snow science things, and I do as much work as I possibly can to bring native people home to my homelands, so, mm-hmm. As I said, my, my Tlingit name is Kaji Klinket. Um, I'm a member of the Central Council of Tlingit and Haida Indian Tribes of Southeast Alaska.
Ellen: So that's everywhere from Yakutat in the Northwest, all the way down to Ketchikan in the south. That's all Tlingit territory. Um, my family comes from Mangun and I've spent a lot of time in Juneau, so I try to do as much as I can of getting our Tlingit folks back into the mountains in the months that are very winter and snowy and dark mm-hmm.
Ellen: In Alaska. [00:04:00] Um, and then I try to do a lot of similar work here in Colorado and Huka with Winter Park with Icon Pass. Um, they've all been really great partners in, in helping to expand who gets to access these spaces now that you have to pay to access these spaces.
Kara: I know I, I, when doing the research for this episode, I was so excited to learn that you were at Tlingit it because it's maybe the, the Indigenous group that I have had the most exposure to. I dated a guy who still lives in Juneau. Um, he's a outdoor photographer there. I've been there in July. I've been there in June. I've been to the museum that I believe your grandfather or uncle, it's named after. Um, I've gotten to see like these incredible, um, performances and parades and like how the, it's like one of the places where I feel like the culture has been celebrated more than suppressed, even though there's plenty to kind of unleash still. Um, it's a such a fun word on your [00:05:00] mouth.
Ellen: Mm-hmm.
Kara: To say. I even have like, um, I don't know if, if I don't know more about Rie Muñoz other than she's from Juneau, but they're from Juneau. But, um. I don't know if they're, if they're good or bad in the world of colonialism either, but I have some other pieces behind me because it's one of my favorite places. And there's like a magic to it that I wish more people would go and experience and not have it be because of the cruise ship.
Ellen: Absolutely. Yeah. It is one of the most magical places. I am so grateful every day to be Tlingit because I do think, like as you said, yes, there's a lot that's happened historically to us to try to diminish who we are, to take away our culture and our language, but also having spent a lot of time across Indian country and growing up in the Seattle area, like culture is so prevalent still in southeast Alaska and language is having a really strong revitalization moment. There are just so many of us and being. A member of Central Council of Clink and Haida. Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] Like we're the largest tribal entity in the state of Alaska. So like, just by numbers of citizens in our tribe were massive. And that's without even taken into consideration that each of the villages, each of the islands mm-hmm. In Tlingit territory have their own tribal. Governance structure as well. So if you added all that into central council's numbers, like ts are kind of taken over, holding up space still. And I, it's something I'm so proud to, to be a part of, as a really strong warrior culture who's holding on and fighting to maintain who we are in our own spaces.
Kara: Is that why the capital of alaska was put in Juneau?
Ellen: You know, that's a really great question. I actually don't know why Juneau is the capital of Alaska. I know there's been movements throughout time to try to get it moved to other places.
Kara: Yeah.
Ellen: Um, but yeah, I know that Southeast Alaska was one of the places where colonization started happening from. Mm-hmm. Like gold miners coming into Alaska. Um, so that would maybe be my speculation without like, I'm sure there is a very [00:07:00] concrete, real answer out there that I just, yeah. I've never actually thought about the why it's in Juneau and more the, like where we're at now of people being like, it should be in Anchorage or it should be somewhere where there's a bigger population or it's easier to get to and not in an island that isn't actually an island. Mm-hmm. That is Juneau.
Kara: The, city with no roads leading anywhere.
Ellen: Exactly. But it's on the mainland. It's not even an island.
Kara: Yeah. They just stopped. They're like, the road's good here.
Ellen: We're good. Yeah, exactly.
Kara: My bet would be because of how powerful the Indigenous communities were that they wanted to keep an eye on them. If I'm thinking like, why Salt Lake and like all these other things that have happened, that would be my guess. But we'll put, I promise. We'll, in the show notes, we'll have links to actual facts, not me speculating. Um, but based on how colonialism tends to work, that's gonna, that would be my bet if I'm, I'm betting on it. How old were you when you started skiing?
Ellen: I started skiing at the age of four. I was really lucky that I had two parents [00:08:00] who learned to ski in their early twenties. Um, and then when they met together, it was something that they just thought was really important for them to do. And then they had my brother and then me. And it's kind of kept being this really important family activity, how we spent a lot of quality time with each other growing up and still to this day. And that's something that I know is not the story with many skiers and is especially not the story with most of the skiers that I'm trying to help become skiers or snowboarders. Now. So it's something that I'm really grateful for was an important thing to my parents.
Kara: When, if we go back to 8-year-old, you would, she have imagined that you are an activist in this way, that you are representing and defending and supporting your community in this way, that you're getting to mix all of your favorite things into this big knotted ball of yarn of like what you're creating on a regular basis.
Ellen: I think 8-year-old me, no, I dont think she would expect where I'm at now. I think high [00:09:00] school me would maybe more expect where I'm at now. And I think the part of my life now that 8-year-old me would be the most excited about is this summer. I've been spending a lot of time volunteering with the National Sports Center for the Disabled, which is based up here in Winter Park and they have a therapeutic riding center. And the truth comes out in this podcast. I was a horse girl growing up and like most people don't know that about me, but I rode horses. A lot of my childhood. My grandparents had horses including a horse that was born the same year as me. So they always said she was my horse. And I feel like she raised me when I would spend time with her. And then I'd ride horses at Barnes closer to me growing up. And um, I found myself in this volunteering position this summer and it has been so like healing for that inner 8-year-old Ellen who just loves animals and just loves being around horses. State of the world the way it is. I think it's been such a important thing that I've been able to get to do to keep my nervous system regulated this [00:10:00] summer and like mm-hmm. Feel like I'm not just always spiraling outta control like I might have been had I not found. Mm-hmm. Such an awesome way to connect with horses again in my life. So that 8-year-old me certainly saw this feature for me, even if I didn't know it was coming, but mm-hmm. The rest of the things that I do, I don't, I don't think that she knew what was coming for her.
Kara: Mm-hmm. When did you realize that you wanted to be a bigger voice in the Indigenous community and, and to be decolonizing the things that you loved? Like when did you have that moment? Because I think no matter what, like activism people are taking up, there are things you're born into and things that you adopt and, you know, I, I'm curious where your journey was and kind of having that aha moment or realizing, oh, I'm powerful enough to take this on.
Ellen: I think for me, like as I said, late in high school, I feel like was when I kind of started to, and probably like my frontal lobe had started to develop enough to put the pieces of my [00:11:00] life together. Mm-hmm. But I started to have these like larger realizations about like who I was, where I came from, who my grandma was and what she had done in her life. And like in those moments, like I've always been a very outspoken person and I've always really cared about justice. I was the kind of person who on my soccer team would get really mad at my coaches when they wanted us to do more practices when we had like homework or tests coming up. Mm-hmm. And I'd be like, well, well you have to remember we're student athletes. We are both students and athletes. And like, there has to be a good balance of the both, um. It's funny looking back. 'cause I look back at that girl and I'm like, she was a real nerd. She really wanted to do both the sports and the school. Um, but like that, that's always been kind of the person I was, was I always cared about justice and making sure things felt like equal and right and equitable in this world. And I think like I started to practice that as a younger kid without fully understanding what I was doing. And later in high school I started to put the pieces together. And [00:12:00] then it was really in college, in my undergrad where I like kind of was able to put more words to what I was feeling in the world about what was happening justice wise, and then understand it on a deep level of like, where does this come from within myself and why do I feel like I need to do that? And that all comes back to like being Tlingit and who I come from and who my grandma and her family were. Um. Then just feeling this like as you said, like you're just born into it. There's this responsibility of being a tlingit of how you interact with the world and how you advocate for your people. Mm-hmm. And for justice and knowing the legacy I came from, for me it was like, well, it's not a choice I'm making anymore. Even if it, I don't even know if it really ever was a choice I was making. 'cause I feel like it was always something I wanted to fight for, but it was like no longer could I choose to not do it. It just is who I am and I always have to speak up for what I believe in and what and against injustice, wherever it exists.
Kara: Decolonization [00:13:00] can be a hot button topic based on what group you're in. How are you navigating the people who need to hear this the most and don't want to, versus the people who are accepting it? Like how, how are you walking? Or maybe you're just not, like, is there a line you're walking of leaving room for people to figure out versus like, no, you just need to figure this out now. Like, what approach are you taking? To the topic of decolonization in 2025.
Ellen: Yeah. I think I'm trying to do a better job of not just feeling like people need to figure it out.
Kara: Um, yeah.
Ellen: I think 'cause I'm someone who like at my core, like, is so focused on justice. Mm-hmm. And that's what I see. It's hard and I've historically had a hard time of like not judging other people for not seeing that or not. Mm-hmm. Wanting to do the work to educate themselves or not just getting with the program. But you can't blame people for what they don't know. So I think I'm in a space where I'm trying to do a better practice for myself of like. [00:14:00] Helping to be a bridge between that gap and understanding of, um, and I think I like, I feel I do it that the best in both the science and in the skiing worlds because I definitely have like that type of brain that really likes science. And I have that type of brain that really likes skiing and I can totally understand those communities. Mm-hmm. And what drives them and what they're interested in. Because I'm a part of those communities. And so I think in my approach of how do I decolonize a science space, how do I decolonize uh, skiing or outdoor rec space, I try to utilize my understanding of what those communities value. Mm-hmm. Um, and then use my language, I'm aware of when it comes to decolonizing a place, decolonizing practices, my Tlingit traditional values of like, how can I translate these values to these kinds of people? Mm-hmm. Because. I think some of the allies I found in the ski industry specifically are people who like [00:15:00] for the most part, already got the concepts I was gonna bring up to them, but they maybe just hadn't thought about this one aspect of it. And I feel like the people who've been the best allies, or even more the, like the co-conspirators in this space of how do we bring more native people in this space? How do we disrupt these spaces? Are the people who are like open to that. Mm-hmm. They know that they wanna learn something and they may already have educated themselves a ton. And I applaud all those people who are educating themselves a ton on how to be better relatives in these spaces. . But then I can translate the, like my nuanced perspective on heli skiing to them. And yeah, I've had that conversation a lot of times where someone will be like, I've never really thought of it that way, but the way you explain it, like, yeah, duh, that makes sense. Um, so yeah, I'm trying to like, for myself, do a better practice of like, not just like getting all up in arms and frustrated when people don't just get it. , Because at my core that's just like, I just really care about the justice. So like, yeah, I can sometimes come off really aggressive or sometimes [00:16:00] intimidating because I have this passion behind what I'm doing. Um, so for myself, I'm like trying to keep that passion going mm-hmm. While not immediately turning another person off to like a learning experience as a part of that.
Kara: Yeah. Well, and it's hard when how the world occurs to me this year is that women. Female activists already had a huge to-do list of things that we know are not right, need to be fixed. We have answers for, we have solutions for, we have room for. And this year I feel like we've just, like our to-do list has just gotten 10 xd. And it can be so frustrating because we're having to now deal with things or step through or over or other things that like, we're just so unnecessary because we have big problems to solve. [00:17:00] And when you. See it every day and you're like, this is not, like, the answer is so clear and so obvious. Like, we have to talk about these other 10 things before you'll listen to this thing now. Okay, great. Like it's, it's so exhausting and honestly, it's part of what this podcast gives me hope, because there are women like yourself who are holding up your little corner of like all the things that have to be changed because just being a scientist, you're like, oh man, this list is huge. And then, you know, being clinking Indigenous, this list is huge. And now being female and then caring about the outdoors, like they're big lists on their own and you're at the intersection of so many of them. And I can really understand your frustration of even just having to like redefine what colonialism means. You're like, okay, we're at level negative 5,000. Let me take my deep [00:18:00] breaths and begin. And it, it is, it's so frustrating. And even like as a business coach and consultant, there are moments when I have to check myself and be like, oh, we're gonna go all the way back. Okay. But there's you, I think it's important to be picking and choosing who those people are, that we go back to rescue and get in our boat because there are people who are ready to get in the boat that already know those things. How are you navigating, like finding those people who are ready to take action now versus the ones that don't even know that this is a thing that they need to be thinking about?
Ellen: Yeah, I think that the navigating it has been like sometimes I'm really successful at it and other times I'm not. Especially when it comes to in the outdoor industry. Mm-hmm. Um, for me, it looks like, I know I end up having to work with a lot of brands, like I work mm-hmm. Icon Pass. I work with Winter Park. I used to work with Deuter. Um. In. And then I've [00:19:00] tried working with some other brands. I'll leave unnamed, but the thing that I think has allowed me to keep navigating it are the good people that exist at these brands. Mm-hmm. And for me, that's a complex thing. 'cause like one of my other really important justice things is I'm super anti-capitalist and like being a professional skier and having to work in this space. Mm-hmm. That means having to compromise a lot of my values, but. The navigation for me comes in the like finding the people at these brands who want to do the good work. Mm-hmm. And that's how I feel about the people I work with at Icon Pass. That's how I feel about the people I work with at Winter Park. They're the kind of people who I live in community with them. They're in the same town as me and we will make dinners for each other and we will go on hikes and they will teach me how to use their guns because I wanna get into hunting. Like they're the really good people in my community that we have built such a strong relationship and rapport with each other just as mm-hmm friends that when it comes to the work, it makes it so much easier to be like, [00:20:00] alright, I wanna bring 20 extra native people up to Winter Park this year. How can we make it happen? And they're like, well, I know you. I know you're gonna make it happen. I know why you're doing this. I know why it's important and I know this is gonna bring value to our community, so let's go. And so those are the moments I feel like you find success in. It is when you find the good people at the brands. And I've had some horrible experiences at other brands where you don't find the good people. Um, and I think part of the navigation is like sometimes those brands mm-hmm. Are the brands you might think in your head are the best, most ethical ones in the industry. And that becomes really complicated because I'm not often talking. Movies or on social media about like why I very specifically work or don't work with a brand. Mm-hmm. And all someone will see is like, oh, Ellen's sharing a post with X, Y, or Z. And then that becomes really complicated for me because I would totally understand someone without the context judgment of me and what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. If I'm working with Icon Pass [00:21:00] 4 billion or whatever dollar company, I totally understand someone being like, why are you wanting to work with a company like that that owns all these resorts that exist on native land, that exist against treaty rights? And those criticisms are entirely fair. Mm-hmm. And for me, sometimes the navigation comes in like, well, I know the people. I know the work we're able to do here. Yeah. So I'm gonna keep pushing forward with the work I can do, and I'm not gonna ignore the criticisms because they're still fair. Mm-hmm. Even if I know what I'm able to do. In this space. And so for me it's like working with the brands and continue working with the people while they're still at these brands or companies. Mm-hmm. Doing the good work and just continuing to do whatever we can while we still have the good people in. Mm-hmm. Because there's so much turnover in this industry that it's only a matter of time that any of these people could leave their positions and then those partnerships may not continue on because of how it goes. So it's like setting boundaries for yourself of who you will and will not work with. Um, even if it looks like this brand is [00:22:00] really great in doing such ethical things. And then maybe like. Working with a brand that you thought you maybe never would've worked with based off of how their product is created or the perception in the industry about them. Because they have people who are like, mm-hmm alright, under the table, I'm gonna give you this much gear. You give it away however you want. And the numbers, they'll just kind of disappear somehow. Like, and it, it, it puts you in a position for criticism. And I think mm-hmm. I bring on the criticism because that's, that's who I am as a person too. I wanna always make the world a better place so people have critiques of me. I'm, I'm all for it.
Kara: Well, and I think it's a realistic approach to working with the tools and access that we have right now to fix things right now and to be moving in a forward direction. If we waited for the perfect everything, we wouldn't be making any progress. And I am excited you about the capitalist thing 'cause, and I probably will save it for like a future conversation for us to have because it's [00:23:00] such a juicy thing for me and. Being someone who is helping people like basically become independent, like outside of the traditional corporate environment to provide for themselves. Like it's a really interesting space to be in. And I read this fabulous book that I cannot remember right now, that I will go and find before I let you go today and put it in our show notes. But it was talking about how like the Green New Deal isn't a great deal and how can people work and get benefits for their work and have it be so much more balanced And you know, we have to keep asking ourselves, I think over and over again, like what is enough? Like the income disparity that we have is completely bananas right now. I live in Southern California and there's a global stat that if you make over $120,000 a year. You're in the top 1% of [00:24:00] global wealth. The poverty line in my county is a hundred thousand dollars. Like that is insanity.
Ellen: Mm-hmm.
Kara: Insanity.
Ellen: Yep.
Kara: And I think anyone who cares, like who can, who can see the magic in people and like the, the non mistake component and the enchantment of like this world that we have the opportunity to live in, we know that there's a solution between allowing people to use their light for good and make things better. And like be fully, like, I want people earning a living based on what lights them up.
Ellen: Mm-hmm.
Kara: And I don't think that's what people are usually making choices and how people are using their talents for good versus not. And it's so easy to get sucked into this. More, more, more, more, more cycle. When we don't, like, we have wet enough clothing for the next 50 years or something already on the planet. Yeah. There's [00:25:00] so many things that I think if we take a pause and like re-look at, there's a simplicity available to all of us that actually makes all of us healthier, wealthier, happier. But I went on a tangent, but like, feel free to respond to that and I think we need to have like a 2026 capitalism conversation on here.
Ellen: I was gonna say, I could have so many responses to that in full agreement with like your explanation of the material conditions that you're living in, in, in Southern California and how like ridiculous it is that you could be in the top 10% of wealth in the world and yet be right near that poverty land and the community you live in. It's, it's ridiculous. And I think like the wealth and inequality we have right now is. Some of the worst we've ever had historically. Mm-hmm. And like if that's not, if that doesn't change anytime soon, then none of the things that we are fighting for will change. Like the class war is the war right now, and it is interconnected to all of these other things we are talking about. [00:26:00] So, yes, we should have, we should have another conversation about this. 'cause I could go on and on and on and on about Yeah. All of that and how ridiculous it is and how that needs to be like, so much of our focus on what we're organizing in our own communities is like how to address that. But, and yet somehow it's only one piece of the pie of all the injustice we're experiencing in Yeah. 2025.
Kara: We do panels once in a while. Uh, we call it a powerful conversation series, which I think I want the capitalism thing to be in 2026. But we had, um, four women from around the world who were on the ground running these NGOs from Kenya, Tanzania, Burma, Syria. And they all started out with like one focus. Foster kids or, um, working with, um, Indigenous groups that were being per persecuted and pushed outta Burma. Like it was a one focus thing. And just like, you know how I would describe all the inter looping circles of your life and what you bring to all your different communities, they suddenly had [00:27:00] to add on, oh, well if we're gonna care about foster kids, we have to clean up, like go with the organic farming. Oh. And we also have to teach this. And then we have to make sure the school's okay. Like they're now running like full ecosystems for these people they care about because I like you, they're committed to like clearing out the cause, not the symptoms.
Kara: Yep. And you have to go after each of these pieces individually, especially when you get so intimate of like thinking about one person, like one kid that you wanna make sure is skiing. Well, then you care about that kid and you're like, well, what else do you need? Because I know you need more.
Ellen: Yep. It's always, how can I get you to the mountain? Do you have lunch? It's, mm-hmm. Do you have the gear you need? Do you what's going on at home? Yeah. Absolutely. And that's like, that's my favorite thing about being Indigenous and also being a scientist, is that my brain has always been in like, and in science, like I've always at my core been an [00:28:00] ecologist. Mm-hmm. So I'm always thinking about systems and how all of these things are interrelated. And it's also my least favorite thing about science. 'cause science is so disciplined and everything is so like separated by whatever, and
Kara: we gotta get rid of the variables.
Ellen: Exactly. And we have to study this like one thing, and it's part of the reason I haven't done my master's or my PhD, is because everyone wants me to specialize in something. But as an Indigenous person, I'm like, how could I ever study just mm-hmm. Orcas and not look at. The pH levels of the ocean or understand how landslides may be affecting like increase of runoff. Mm-hmm. Or whatever is like, is my least favorite thing about the Western science world is that everything, they wanna put everything in a cute little box and put a bow on it. And now you've studied it and now we understand how this thing works. And it's always been missing so much information to me that that's part of the reason I've took a little bit of a step back from the Western science world. But it's also like my favorite thing [00:29:00] about myself as being an Indigenous scientist is like my brain works in systems. Mm-hmm. I understand how to run a research project and like how to talk about data and do a data analysis and understand statistics and like I can put those two things together like Robin Wall Kimmerer's book and Braid the Sweetgrass in my mind of Western science and Indigenous knowledge. But that's really hard to apply in 2025 in the world that we're living in and unfortunately it's an experience that so many people Indigenous are not across the entire world, are experiencing of like, you can't just address one thing. And I know there are a lot of people who brains maybe work a little bit different and they do need to specialize in something. Mm-hmm. And I think those people are also amazing people who are getting the work done in different disciplines, but we need a better ecosystem as a whole. Mm-hmm. In the movements we are building of like, okay, so if you do have a really specified organization, how can we support what it is that affects them through a different organization [00:30:00] or through an ecosystem of organizations. Mm-hmm. And like, we will never solve any of these things. Mm-hmm. Unless we focus on that. And it's also part of my reason, I really hate when people say that people could be one issue voters. 'cause I'm like...
Kara: no,
Ellen: it's not even possible. It's not even possible.
Kara: And, if they are choosing to do that, they're sacrificing 99% of who they are.
Ellen: Or they're just not even realizing how the thing that they care about also affects other things that any politician or political party may be taking a stance on or against. Like, like it's, even if someone believes they are a single issue voter, they're not fully comprehending the intricate nature of everything.
Kara: I think that's what's baffled me about like the white women voting crisis that we've been having because when I think about who understands systems in that way, I always think, like I see women dealing with it every day on a level that men often aren't. And I know it's super stereotypical, [00:31:00] and I know there are men that think in systems and, and can, and thinking that kind of macro level as well. But based on Western expectations of women and, and honestly it's stretch into Eastern expectations too. Like there's so many things that are being juggled and balanced and overlapping at once. Like it's, it's. A very traditional mindset that we haven't had the luxury of choosing one lane. I don't understand how there's that disconnect between knowing how just a day in a life works and then thinking this isn't connected to all the things that we're voting. Like, it, it hurts my brain so much that I, like, I can feel even now talking about it, like the black and white, like TV screen happening where it's like, just know, like we don't, cannot comprehend.
Ellen: Yep.
Kara: When you look at like, the top priorities that you're choosing to focus on right now versus all the things, is it coming back to like one person, one [00:32:00] kid at a time? Is it, you know, building those relationships with the brands and the people you know, like how are you staying grounded in, the chaos?
Ellen: Yeah, it's a lot of things. There are programs that I help work on that are one person, one at a time. Like I helped to run this internship program with Sealaska Heritage Institute and with A-E-L-M-P, which is Alaska Electric Light and Power. And coincidentally, AELMP like hosts snow scientists because so many of the power lines in Juneau are in avalanche paths. So we've been running this internship now, I think we're going into our fourth year. And this past year we actually two interns, but the year before for two years in a row, we had the same intern and it was just one Alaska native girl who was in her junior of high school, then her senior year of high school, and I was helping to mentor her. That was definitely a circumstance for me. It was like one person at a time. Like we are trying to address an issue we have in the snow science space of like there aren't a lot of women. Mm-hmm. But there [00:33:00] are, especially not a lot of native women and especially not of Alaska native women. And this was a young Alaska native woman who is very passionate about skiing, like in so many ways. Watching her passion about skiing has brought me back to my passion in skiing. And we got her out in the mountains. We got her set up to backcountry ski, taught her avalanche safety, slowly taught her snow science and forecasting. And now she's, I think in her junior year of college and like really wants to be a glaciologist, which she wanted to be before the internship as well. Mm-hmm. But it was a lot of. Setting her up for like, alright, what skills do you tangibly need to get into this field and how can we get you those skills at a younger age in high school and in college. So when you get to a place where maybe you're looking for a research assistant position and you need a certain level of skill level in the field to be on a glacier or to be in an ice field, like boom, you already have a pair of backcountry skis. You already have all of your avalanche safety skills, like you're good to go. You could go do that internship. And that's been such a fulfilling thing [00:34:00] to be a part of because like that connection to a individual person and watching how what you're able to teach them how to do can be really transformative about the way they see the world, about the way they see their life and like what they could do with their life has been super awesome. And then on the other hand, this, mountain access program that we've run with Icon Pass, we're now going into our fifth year of that that's like larger scale in this year we're gonna give away 40 icon passes and gear people up as much as we can with the support of some sponsors and then get people out in the mountains. And that's like, sometimes that is still connecting with individuals 'cause some of the participants live nearby. Or when we travel, we get to ski or snowboard with participants. But that feels like slightly more on the larger scale of like just mask, getting more people out. Mm-hmm. And trying to change this issue of like, skiing is really expensive. Mm-hmm. Passes are super expensive. Gears expensive, transportation, food, all the things. Um. So getting to participate in these different [00:35:00] kinds of programs with focus on individuals, larger groups, families, whatever it is, like, I feel like that's been grounding to me because as a person who's very holistic and intersectional, like if I was to just focus on one approach, I think there'd always be a part of my brain would be like, but what if we tried to do like a bigger scale thing? Um, so for me, that is really grounding to me to be like, mm-hmm. All right, well, right now what we're doing is we're just getting as many people as possible in the mountains. And that some of those people we're gonna be right there with them the whole step of the way. And other people we're just gonna empower them by giving them the pass and allow them to, to get up on the mountain as much as they can on their own.
Kara: I hope you say this as a compliment and not a critique as your with your anti-capitalist stance, but like you have such an incredible entrepreneurial brain. Like it's, that's like, it's, it's all about solving problems, right? Like this, you're an example of like how it can be used for good and not world domination for one person. Like it's, it's systems and seeing it and like, you can't not see it. And now it bo now you hear it in the back, it's like it won't [00:36:00] leave you alone. And I had to accept like, what a weirdo my brain was a long time ago. And I just like, yeah, like you have this beautifully dangerous mind that the world needs right now. So I'm like, lean in, do all the things. Tell like, who, how could I help? it, it always surprises me that they're, like you were mentioning before, like the people who are like singly focused. Sometimes I envy it because. It that occurs to me is like, could I be happy to like just be a librarian? Like, that sounds like a lovely, nice life. And I'm like, no. I would be ripping my hair out whether I knew why or not. And so I so appreciate people who are so committed to Elaine where I can be like, great, you've got that room. We gotta move on. Um, but there aren't enough people. Like there's a, a Dutch, uh, what is his name?
Kara: He's putting together, he's pulling people out of consulting [00:37:00] firms because he wants people who are trained to make things happen and who are smart to be solving the world's problems and not working for a consultancy and not working for financial firms. And I think it speaks to the fact that there isn't enough of this kinda optimization. How do we fix it? How do we solve it? Like we, like how do we move quickly? There's often not enough of that being applied into. Things that aren't tech companies, quite frankly, and we need those brains in these places that like actually produce results and actually matter and, and are changing the world in ways that is needed right now. Um, so all that to say I am, I appreciate how, how beautifully dangerous your mind works.
Ellen: I, I appreciate that and I like that description. I think like my whole life, like I definitely have adhd and that's why I was good at school as like a young girl. My brain being the way it is, a ADHD, like being able to hyper focus on these things. [00:38:00] So for people are like, you should be a doctor, you should be a lawyer, you should be an engineer, you should be in tech. All these things. And none of that ever interested me because so much of that was like, ways to make money, ways to make a lot of money, how to become really rich. All these things of like, that's the expectation that's put on you in society. Mm-hmm. If you are. Like good at mm-hmm. Achieving in the society we have. And I was like, I was the kind of person who, the school structure, it worked for me, but I also was the kind of person who, I remember a time in high school, in an English class and we were listening to, I can't remember if it was a podcast or a video or we'd read a passage, but it was something about a critique of the school systems in the United States, and it was in an honors English class and we were all talking about it and the, the teacher at the time asked like, alright, so what's, what's really interesting is like you guys are all in like kind of either disagreeing with these critiques or like really agreeing with the system and how these things go. And I remember [00:39:00] raising my hand and saying something along the lines of like, well, yeah, of course we feel that way. We're in honors English. Like the people in this class succeed in this mm-hmm. System. We all exist in, like, we all get good grades, we all know how to pass tests. We can all write paper like. We're good at this system. Of course, everyone in here is affirming the system and I don't know. Mm-hmm. I don't know if it was the clinking in me. I don't know if it was my grandma. I don't know what it was, but in the moment I was like, yeah, but like, just because it works for us doesn't mean it works for everyone else. And I think like that was really likely the moment for me too, that was like, oh, I have no interest in being a lawyer or a doctor, an engineer, or any of these things that are like culturally considered success and will make you the most amount of money our, in our society. For me, it was like I could never, even though I could.
Kara: Yes.
Ellen: Even though I had the skills to do any of those things, like you were saying, I would never be fulfilled. Mm-hmm. In a role like that, I would probably be more fulfilled in a role as a librarian than [00:40:00] would as a doctor, knowing the, the wealth dynamic between those two as well. Like for me it's, mm-hmm. That wasn't ever the driver for success for me was what other people consider successful or money. It was always like. I really care about like making things better for everyone and doing those things. Yes, lawyers and doctors especially really important at this time.
Kara: Mm-hmm.
Ellen: But like I feel like I could make more change with my skills and my interest being in an entirely different realm.
Kara: I'd love to talk for a second about why getting Indigenous people back to the land matters.
Ellen: So in two words, land back, land back both means the land return to our stewardship as Indigenous peoples wherever we have been. Um, and are still are. But it also means we return to the land. And for me as a person who grew up away from my traditional homelands being in the Seattle area, there are a lot of Alaska natives in Seattle. So in some ways it feels like a [00:41:00] little extension of Alaska. Um, but I got to go home growing up in the summers and I got to spend a lot of time on the land in the summers, being on the water, being in the water, being in the forest. But I grew up in Seattle skiing and that was my connection point to the land. That was what I loved doing the most for connecting to the Coast Salish areas, to all of the communities of lands that I was getting to experience. And for me, I had never gotten to do that on my own homelands until January of 2022. And that trip for me. Going into it, I had a lot of expectations about what that would be like, and it like was far beyond even anything I could have imagined in my own brain of what it felt like to connect with my own land in the way that I knew how to connect in my own body. And for me, that's like. It felt like a very personal experience. Mm-hmm. And then in meeting other Indigenous people who also skied, I learned and having my father and my brother, who also skied, like I was able [00:42:00] to learn and kind of put together that it, it isn't just a personal experience though, that it is a shared thing and that so many other people do get to feel this way, whether it is skiing or hiking or backpacking or camping or climbing or biking or whatever it is that just as native people being on the lands we belong to, or the lands that we know now. Mm-hmm. Is so transformative to ourselves and our own being. And through that you can feel the transformation with the land. And so, because skiing was my connection point, that's why, that's what I focus on. And um, that is my like, attempt to try to choose a lane in some respects of like, well, I know that there's amazing people out there who are taking people river rafting or mm-hmm. Doing these other activities, but I don't have as many of the like, tangible skills in those spaces. So I focus on the skiing in this way. That's why I do it because I think like the land misses us too. Mm-hmm. And we deserve more than anyone else to be in these spaces and to determine [00:43:00] what happens and how you build a reciprocal relationship with the land in the places where it's being so exploited and fetishized and extracted from both in the very obvious ways and the extractive industries, and also in the many ways that are extracted from outdoor recreation or the outdoor.
Kara: Well, I think that what gets missed in this conversation sometimes for people who aren't Indigenous and don't necessarily get like, what the, what do you mean they don't have access to the land? So many people have been removed from what was considered their ancestral spaces, which means they're disconnected from the tangible, especially Indigenous cultures, spirits of those places, they, their ancestors who have still been connected to those places. And there's like entire songs and stories and conversations people are singing and talking and passing down that they've never actually set foot on. [00:44:00] And when you're able to connect your family lineage, these stories, the songs like the whole spiritual component of a culture to a mountain, to a space. It's a out of body experience that is hard to articulate and we don't think twice about, immigrants to the US going back to their like family home country And like you, it feels different. Whether you believe in astrocartography or just like that, there's genetic correlation to places that have been passed down to you. If you get to walk the streets that your ancestors did or be on the mountain or hillside that your ancestors did, it's different. And I think that people start thinking, it's a conversation about like moving everybody back to where they may have been and you're like at a global level like that, that's not gonna work. Like everyone has, like, we've basically taken the globe and like shaken it [00:45:00] furiously and then be like, cool, look where everyone landed. But there's a difference of like the access point and the, and I think maybe what, and you can tell me if these are the wrong words or not, but like an invitation to come back to those spaces.
Ellen: Yeah. And I think it's like, it's the invitation in some ways. 'cause sometimes like the person who's inviting you, you don't want that invite some, 'cause I have had that experience in the outdoor industry a lot of, especially before 2022. When I got to go home for the first time and then I lived for eight months back at home the following winter. Like there were so many times I'd tell people I'd come into spaces and outdoor industry things, tell people who I was, where I was from and what I do. And they always wanted to invite me to my own home. And that was a huge thing for me of being like, oh, that's super triggering to the intergenerational traumas I carry about my family having to leave. Mm-hmm. Home in the sixties. And you thinking you have a stronger connection to this [00:46:00] place that my people have been in for. Almost 20,000 years and you've been in for, what, 20 years maybe? But I think it is like, it's an opening of the space of like these places, whether that's ski resorts, whether that's forest service, land, national parks, anything that would be constituted as public land. Whatever it comes down to. It's like we've created such an exclusionary society based off of the concept of land, property. Of private property in general. And knowing where I come from and how we wouldn't conceive of property and land and private property in the same western ways.
Ellen: Mm-hmm. For me, it's about like breaking down those barriers to the exclusionary processes of, of whatever it is. Whether it's getting to ski in a place, whether it's just being on the water, being in a set of land, like. That's why for me, with skiing, that's why I do end up working with these brands like an Icon Pass. 'Cause it's like, well as [00:47:00] things stand now whether I would change that or not is a different story. But as things stand now, icon Pass. The other one, the other pass that I'm not allowed to say the name of, they own so many resorts and they control so much of skiing and they've become this, these big conglomerates that do so. And at least Icon Pass is the only of the two large passes who is out here working with two native professional skiers saying how do we actually bring native people back here? We know that you guys belong in these spaces. The invitation. And that comes from like, all right, so we're gonna make this free of cost for you.
Ellen: Mm-hmm. The only thing you have to really cover for the Mountain Access Program is like getting yourself there and feeding yourself. Mm-hmm. And that's something that we're working to figure out how we can also break down those barriers. Like, if you can get yourself here, you can come, you can be in these spaces and we will not make it exclusionary to you. We'll keep excluding the other people. And that's a whole other story. But like, it is that level of like, alright. Mm-hmm. With [00:48:00] the world standing the way it is now, how do we slowly start to change mm-hmm. Cultures? How we slowly start to change demographics of, of any kind of activity or any kind of land space we're in. How do we bring it so it better reflects the world we lived in after we shook the globe through colonization and rape and imperialism and capitalism.
Kara: And chasing people of all kinds off of all sorts of lands from all
Ellen: exactly like corners. The shaking was even more brutal than just truly shaking the planet. Mm-hmm. Um, but if this is where we land now, like what can we do? I think that's where I appreciate so many of the partnerships that I have in the industry are the people who are genuine. Like I'm aware of the historical context of why we are here now, what, how, what can I do as a employee or two employees of this company, of this resort, of this corporation, whatever it is, of like, what can I do?
Ellen: Mm-hmm. Just in my little slice of here, how can I make things better, even if only for a moment? And I think in order to get to a world that's [00:49:00] better for longer than a moment, we do have to have the moments of being mm-hmm. Better to create a, a cultural change.
Kara: I agree. I've been, digging into a little bit the land, like private property and land access rights that they have in Sweden. They have an interesting model where you can own property as an individual or a company, I guess, and you can't restrict people's access to it. Like people are allowed to pick berries and forage and hunt and walk through. And it's like this really interesting kinda hybrid dynamic, I think it's interesting because it's, again, it's like, do I imagine in my lifetime that property rights are gonna go away?
Kara: No. And you know, do we need all these no trespassing signs for innocent things that people are doing? Probably not. Right. So it's an interesting thing to be looking at, like [00:50:00] how is land conceived and shared, and. Still given ownership from a stewardship perspective. Like it's a really interesting, again, other topic that I think is juicy from a, what makes sense and how do we, how do we take care of it and like, not we're so good right now to your point of keeping people outta things. There's this exclusive component that is so unnecessary at so many different layers, whether it's information or technology or land. And I don't think people are thinking about it at all because it's like, this is just how things operate. And it's on the list of things that we're like, should it, can we talk about this again?
Ellen: Right, right. And like, we haven't even gotten to the place that I think we will have to get to of like having that conversation mm-hmm. Around whether it's like, how do you exclude people outta land? Whether it's like, do we live in the. [00:51:00] Society that's centered around scarcity or like abundance or all these things. And I think like we can have the start to have these conversations with each other now, but we're not having them on like society wide scale. Mm-hmm. And that's what's so missing, because like we could have a conversation now and be like, well, yeah, things should be an exclusionary. But then there's another part of my brain that's like, okay, well I'd also know as a Tlingit that there are some things that are exclusionary or like we could try to be acting more out of abundance of, of love and resources in the world. And that out, out of, out of scarcity, not in scarcity mindset, but then I'm like, but scarcity also does exist in the world. So like we aren't even a place where we're able to have the nuanced complex mm-hmm. Conversation about like, how do we understand a world that isn't black and white when we have lived in a society that makes things black or white? And so often our response to a world that is black and white is to go the exact opposite way, but it still black and white without like. Just finding a society that's [00:52:00] comfortable in that entirely gray, multicolored spectrum fun area that is the actual existence of all other species of the world except for us. And I'm really excited for the day that conversation gets to happen on a larger scale because I think it will happen, and I think it's happening and going to happen sooner than we may even be able to conceive of. Because of the rate of destruction that we are creating as a species or at least a like western run.
Kara: Yeah.
Ellen: Species. I wouldn't say that the species as a whole is creating
Kara: No, no. Yeah.
Ellen: The circumstances we are living in, I don't think he mentioned exist.
Kara: No. Most people are, are good. Whether they are acting good or not is another question. Um, but I, I think a lot of it also comes down to like how we define boundaries. So many people think of boundary as a wall between you and someone else. When a boundary is really, like, it is a circle around something sacred. And I think that's part of that nuance that you were [00:53:00] talking about of sure. Like this can all be, free for all over here. But like, we have to still have boundaries around the things that need to be protected and honored. And boundaries are, rules for what actually matters. And defining that, you know, collectively, I think to your point will be really interesting. Um, but it starts with us even understanding like what the language means before we start applying it all over the place. Because we're really good right now of like saying the same words and being like, that is not what that means.
Ellen: Absolutely. That's why I hate the English language so much.
Kara: Well, and no, like the biggest thing I always complain about, even like looking at Spanish, they in Spanish they have esto and soy for like I am and just the distinction between I am permanently versus I am right now. It gives humanity so much freedom [00:54:00] to not become a thing that we have to carry in our backpack and define ourselves around. And it seems like such a small distinction, but it it's one of those, you know, it's abracadabra, right? Our, our words what we speak. So it is, is the def I think the translation of that and like our language is so powerful and we are, we have not been responsible about it, especially in the English language recently about how it's being applied. So yes. Another nuance. This entire conversation.
Ellen: It's all nuance.
Kara: It's all nuance. For people who love what you're up to, wanna see your film, wanna support, you wanna get involved in what you're up to, how can they find, follow, and support you.
Ellen: Yeah. So you can find and follow me on Instagram. That's kind of my only social media at the moment. It's Ellen G Bradley. Um, and then the film we are going to be a part of the Girl Winter Film Tour this fall, which we're really excited about. That [00:55:00] will be schedule is soon to come on that. And then depending on some funny things, we might be a part of another tour up in British Columbia and Alberta, which I'm really excited about. I think our film, like our intended audience is a mixture between a native audience in the outdoor industry or outdoor recreationist audience. And so getting it into these like very traditional ski tour kind of locations, both in the lower 48 of the US and in Canada, I think is gonna be hopefully really helpful to spreading this cultural message, narrative change that we're trying to share throughout this film. There's a couple festivals we're hoping to hear back from about fall and December, and then after that, as long as we don't find any of other festivals we wanna submit to, I think we're gonna release on YouTube sometime early winter, maybe mid-winter, depending on release schedule. Thanks, but that will hopefully just be accessible on YouTube. You can always reach out to me if you want to do screenings of the film panels q and as talks about the film. I think like the film is pretty awesome, [00:56:00] but it is only 18 minutes long and as you can see, I could talk about these things and Depth wants, um, for a really long time. And I especially feel about that, about that way about the film because of everything we went through and the creation of it and all of the things we had to leave, um, on the editing floor that weren't able to make it into the shorter film, um, length. So I'm always stoked to get to talk more about like what we didn't get to put into the visuals of the film, but what I still think is so important. Mm-hmm. And understanding the context, the cultural history and also, um, what do we do from here of like changing the narratives around skiing in Alaska. Those are the top things. If anyone is interested in looking into the mountain Access program, we'll be launching that in early September and we'll end, I think right at the end of September. Um mm-hmm. And hopefully that one keeps going year after year. So even if you miss it this year, next year mm-hmm around this time of year, keep an eye out because as many people as we can get applying, uh, the more we show a need that people need this program [00:57:00] to exist. And it keeps growing. So I think it's super awesome to see just how many people across both the US and Canada are, are Indigenous folks who wanna get into ski or snowboarding.
Kara: Well, I'm so glad that we finally got introduced and connected. I'm. Super excited about what you're up to and how you're approaching it. Um, thank you for holding up your corner of changing the world. Thank you so much for being a yes to powerful and to me, and sharing even just a peak inside the wisdom that you have. Um, but yeah, thank you. Today's been great.
Ellen: Oh goodness. Teach to you Kara. I really appreciate being a part of this and the conversation. I love getting to connect with folks who are doing the work in their own spaces as well. 'cause similarly, I, I love knowing that you're in your own corner doing your own work and, and you got that covered. So I, I don't have to make a, a podcast about powerful ladies, you got it going.
Kara: Thanks for listening to The Powerful Ladies Podcast. If you enjoyed this [00:58:00] conversation, please subscribe. Leave us a review or share it with a friend. Head to the powerful ladies.com. We can find all the links To connect with today's guest show notes, discover like episodes, enjoy bonus content and more.
Kara: We'll be back next week with a brand new episode and new amazing guest. Make sure you're following us on Instagram or Substack at Powerful ladies. To get the first preview of next week's episode, you can find me and all my socials @karaduffy.com. This is a Powerful Ladies production produced by Jordan Duffy and Amanda Kass.
Kara: Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
Kara: Thanks for listening to The Powerful Ladies Podcast. If you enjoyed this [00:58:00] conversation, please subscribe. Leave us a review or share it with a friend. Head to the powerful ladies.com. We can find all the links To connect with today's guest show notes, discover like episodes, enjoy bonus content and more.
Kara: We'll be back next week with a brand new episode and new amazing guest. Make sure you're following us on Instagram or Substack at Powerful ladies. To get the first preview of next week's episode, you can find me and all my socials @karaduffy.com. This is a Powerful Ladies production produced by Jordan Duffy and Amanda Kass.
Kara: Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Instagram: @ellengbradley
LinkedIn: ellen-g-bradley
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
