Episode 338: Love Shapes the Heart | Amanda K. Foust | Entrepreneur, Coach, Author & Adoption Advocate
Amanda Foust is an entrepreneur, marketing expert, coach, author, and the creator of the High Performance Planner. She’s also a devoted mom to a beautifully blended family of both adopted and biological children—and she’s back on the Powerful Ladies Podcast to share the deeply personal side of her journey. In this episode, Amanda joins Kara to talk about love, family, and what it really means to open your heart to adoption. They dive into the realities of raising an interracial family, navigating trauma, understanding attachment, and knowing when you’re truly ready to adopt. Amanda also shares the inspiration behind her children’s book, Love Shapes the Heart, a powerful story about identity, diversity, and belonging. If you’ve ever considered adoption, are building a family of your own, or simply want to be reminded of the transformative power of love, this episode is one you won’t want to miss.
“All kids need is love—whether it comes from me, someone else, or anyone at all. Love is what helps them truly thrive.”
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Chapters:
00:00 Family Adventures and Intentional Parenting
03:04 The Journey of Adoption
06:00 Navigating Interracial Family Dynamics
08:51 The Challenges of Trauma in Adoption
11:59 Finding Joy in Parenting
14:58 The Importance of Community Support
17:51 Integrating Biological and Adopted Children
20:50 The Financial Aspects of Adoption
24:43 Understanding Financial Hurdles in Parenting
27:08 The Role of Community in Adoption
30:09 Courage and the Adoption Journey
32:42 Overcoming Challenges in International Adoption
36:36 The Impact of Parenting Styles on Children
40:33 Budgeting for Family Expenses
42:25 The Evolution of Parenting in Modern Times
45:28 Supporting Each Other in the Adoption Process
338 - Amanda Foust
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[00:00:00]
Kara: Welcome to the Powerful Ladies podcast. I'm Kara Duffy, and today's guest is entrepreneur, marketing expert, coach, author, and creator of the High Performance Planner, Amanda k Faust. Amanda first came on our show in 2023, and I am very excited to have her back because this time we get to talk all about her personal life.
Kara: She has a blended family of both adopted and biological children and has written this beautiful book, Love Shapes the Heart, all about adoption and diversity in families. Adoption has always been something that I've considered for growing my family, so I went into this episode with all of my personal questions and questions I've gathered from our community. We talk about the experience of being an interracial family, the cost of adoption, attachment to newly adopted children. Like people get so nervous about that, why? It really does take a village in a community, no matter how you create your family. You know, even the tough parts like navigating trauma with adopted children [00:01:00] and how.
Kara: Even to know, like, when are you actually ready to adopt, you know, pro tip, it's the same as when are you ready to have a family in general, which is, it's always scary and, you know, we do it anyway. Um, and of course we dive into her book why it's so needed and why it is such an incredible gift for all families to better understand what love really means and to better understand adoption in general.
Kara: I hope you enjoy this episode.
Kara: I am so excited to have you back on The Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Amanda: I am so excited to be back.
Kara: Um, I love watching everything that you and your family are up to on Instagram between your business advice, what's happening there, and then all the trips you guys take as a family. I'm really impressed by how much living you guys do as a family.
Amanda: Well thank you. We have so much fun, like yeah, I definitely value just like a ton of family time [00:02:00] and my kids are at that age where I hope that they do too. They're teenagers now, so I'm like, okay, let's hope this lasts.
Kara: Like, was it an intentional thing between you and your husband to make sure that you were doing trips and getting the experiences in and like the quality time or like how did it come into your plan of, you know, parenthood.
Amanda: Thank, thankfully we both are family people, like we're that way with our extended families as well, or growing up we were. And so we both knew that that was important. And then my husband actually grew up in England and so he had that experience of a lot of travel. I did not grow up in a small town.
Amanda: I did study abroad, so I started doing that in my adult life. But like growing up, I did not. And so we had very different backgrounds and so, you know, when you come together. You're like, what do we wanna take from our childhood? What do we wanna leave behind? That kind of thing. One of the biggest things was we wanted to give our kids the experiences that he got to have with travel and just seeing that there's more than just what we have [00:03:00] around us here in our small community.
Kara: We're having you back on because you have this incredible book that you've written. Let's tell everyone about your book.
Amanda: Yay. Thank you. Yes. So I wrote a book called Love Shapes the Heart, and it is a children's book that I'm super excited about. And I actually wrote it back in 2017 in like a scrapbook for my daughter. Like I hand wrote it and I like to put together the illustrations. And the reason behind why I did that was because, um, we had adopted our daughter from Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Amanda: And she was coming, you know, from another country. And, um, it was a transracial adoption. It was a whole, it was like a lot of different things that, you know, I wasn't used to, I wasn't used to explaining. Um, but I was ready for, and one of the most important things for me was that not only did she have an understanding of her world and, and what adoption means, but that.
Amanda: As she grew up, I would be able to [00:04:00] explain it to her peers and to other people because I never wanted to put that pressure on her to kind of have to explain her family and the differences that we have. Um, and I wanted her to have a resource, even from a young age. And so I created something that just.
Amanda: We had as a family and she would read and she loved. And then later we ended up, um, having two more children through adoption and they ended up loving the book too. And so I ended up publishing it in 2019. For the first time, I had no idea what I was doing. I just was like, oh, I think you can publish on Amazon.
Amanda: I'm just gonna try, you know. And so I put it there, but I didn't know how to do it correctly. And so I, I have since pulled it down since then and now I'm relaunching it and doing it the right way and, and just really trying to get it out there for people.
Kara: I have so many questions about this because I've been fascinated about, uh, adopting and I'm super open to how a family comes together and there are [00:05:00] so many kids who need loving safe homes in this world. There's crazy statistics, like over 350,000 kids in foster care in the US, let alone children who need support, um, in other countries.
Kara: How did you guys end up on an adoption journey to begin with?
Amanda: Yeah, great question. So that was another thing like coming into my marriage that I expressed to my husband that I knew that if I had a biological child too, great, but I didn't, that wasn't my heart. I was just kind of like, I just want to. Um, give a family to those who don't have a family, you know? And so I made sure he was on board with that pretty early on. Like, how do you feel about growing our family through adoption? And maybe that's our only path. Maybe like I said, we have a biological family, I don't know. Um, but he was very much like neutral, to be honest. He wasn't really for it and he wasn't against it. He was just like, oh, I honestly haven't really thought about that, but I'm open to it.
Amanda: And so that was [00:06:00] enough for me. For him to be open to it. And little did he know, only like a year into our marriage was I like, okay, we're ready. And he's like, what do you mean? Like it's been a year. And I'm like, I don't know. I just feel like we were gonna do international at first and that can take a long time.
Amanda: Like some international places can take years. And so I'm like, we gotta get the paperwork in. We gotta do these steps so that when we do wanna have. A child. Um, we're ready. And so, um, to make a long story short, we ended up choosing Democratic Republic of the Congo 'cause we were highly involved in the Exodus refugee, which is near, uh, where we live. I don't know if they have other locations outside of Indianapolis, but it's an organization that helps refugee families. And they were particularly focused on the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And I wasn't super familiar with that country at the time. I was familiarizing myself with these people that I was coming to know and love, and they were talking about how [00:07:00] was difficult for women in particular in the country. And so, um, I had heard that they actually were opening for adoptions and we found a good, reputable agency and went for it. And we've selected a, we actually did say we wanted a girl from there just because of what we were hearing. Um, statistics wise and how women were treated over there. We wanted to, to specifically do that.
Amanda: And then it actually was very fast. It was like six months because she, um, was just medically fragile and needed to come home soon. And so it happened really fast. And then let's, I'm trying to think how many years later it was in 2017 that we adopted from foster care, actually here in the States. We adopted bio siblings through there, and then in between I had a biological son, so that's kind of how our family is.
Kara: You know, coming, having [00:08:00] an interracial family in the middle of Indiana.
Amanda: Yes.
Kara: Are you often asked about it? Is it something that comes up often? Like are you explaining yourself like at school functions, like, no. Yes I am their mom. Like how, how much are you managing it? And I don't wanna pick on Indiana, 'cause I do think it'd be anywhere in the US that this would still come up. Um, but I even know friends who. The mother's German, the father's Asian, and if the mother's with them, the children look so Asian dominant, they'll be like, oh, are you their nanny? And she's like, Nope, I'm their mother.
Amanda: Oh my goodness. Yeah, no, that's a great question actually. And that was something I was concerned about going into, is like what is that gonna be like for them and how are they gonna experience that? A couple things that come to mind when you ask that. Number one is we have very open communication about it. Like I don't try to hide the fact that they're in a small town Indiana and that, um, that's gonna be difficult. [00:09:00] And we talk about it. And now that they're older especially, and I know that they are, the best way I can say it is like, yes, there have been questions for sure. And yes, there have been things we've had to navigate that I wish we didn't, but there's been so much. More good than bad that it's been completely worth it. And to your point, I feel like there are other areas really anywhere in the world where that kind of thing happens. And that's one of the biggest reasons why I wanted this resource is 'cause I found that when you can educate people and give them the resources without putting that burden on the kids themselves, it really helps them be able to, um, see things from a different point of view. And since then, like we have been able to just really have nothing but support from the community to be honest.
Kara: What has surprised you that's been easier and harder as an adoptive parent?
Amanda: Oh, I hadn't thought about that question. Um, that's a good question too. I wish I could think of things that were easy. [00:10:00] It's, it's, I'm like, okay, what's been easy? I mean, well, actually I just did as I said that I would say, um, attachment has been easy for me. I know that that's a fear of a lot of people.
Amanda: Well, if I'm adopting another child that doesn't come from my body, how will I attach, how will I feel that connection? And you know, there were times before they were home that I worried about that. Like, what if it's not natural? Or what if it's uncomfortable? And, and I know that that happens, so I don't wanna dismiss that 'cause people have experienced that. But for me, it was easier than I thought. I just immediately was able to. See them as my kids and ha haven't, that hasn't stopped since. And thankfully that same experience was that way for my husband. Um, for the hard, I would say, I mean honestly just navigating through the trauma that they carry, which is not their fault at all. And trying [00:11:00] to like, hold both of that, of like. This is a real thing that needs to be dealt with, but also like this isn't their fault and nothing that they asked for. They didn't ask for this. And, and you know, obviously their stories are their own, but I, yeah, just the pain of watching that has been a lot harder than I thought. I,
Kara: And were they, were your kids adopted at a, like a really young age, or were they toddlers kid like
Amanda: so, uh, it's actually very different. So Evelyn was a year and a half. And so by the time she, yeah, she was a year and a half, almost two by the time she was home. And then Asher and Matea are the two that we adopted domestically, and Asher was five and Mateo was eight. So I have had the like young
Amanda: Yeah.
Amanda: adoption and I've had the older kid adoption, so I can definitely speak to both sides.
Kara: Does it enrage you when you look at these beautiful, perfect kids, that [00:12:00] they even have trauma?
Amanda: I mean, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, I tell my oldest especially, 'cause she's 16 now, which is so crazy how fast it gets. Um, so we have had her as long as she has, as long as we haven't had her. So it was like eight years when she came, and now she's 16. And so we have a lot of open conversations about that. And, and we do. I say, I wish that I could have protected you in the past and I wish there were, I wish that I could have been a part of your life earlier too, to save you from those things. Not, not that it would be me saving her, but just like, you know what I mean? Just she wouldn't have had to
Kara: her. Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, I, I am involved in, uh, CASA the court appointed and special advocates
Amanda: Yeah.
Kara: And I, I'm not a casa myself, but I do a lot of the fundraising for some of their charity events and watching these kids and hearing their stories and. I get the same reaction that [00:13:00] like when I watch the movie. I think it was the Maid where like, this poor, have you seen this show at all?
Amanda: No, I don't know if I've seen that.
Kara: The rough idea is that this young mother was in an abusive relationship. She leaves with her baby and there's no one to help her, and she's caught in this thing of like, okay, I need to get a job. But I need daycare and I can't have daycare if I don't have a job and I don't have a permanent place to live yet. And just like the levels of difficulty that we put around people who are genuinely innocent and or asking for help 'cause they're doing the work. And how hard we make it to escape from situations they don't wanna be in. And whether it's kids or um, adults who have, you know, gotten into a bad place. I mean, for crying out loud, I can't even handle watching videos about dogs or babies that need help. And so I just, it makes me so [00:14:00] furious that there are, I just believe that people are good as a foundational point and. I wish that we were helping these kids and our neighbors at a greater level because why wouldn't we? Like the second you meet someone you're like, of course I'll help you. Like, I was watching that show on Netflix, screaming like, come to my house. Like, I have a guest room. And it was just, it enrages me like the level of difficulty that we put in front of. People, sometimes, especially kids.
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. And I do kind of reference that a little bit in my book. I don't know how much detail you want me to share about it, but it, it makes me think of like what you just said if, if you're okay with, okay, so what, without giving too much away, 'cause obviously I don't wanna give the whole premise of the book away.
Amanda: Um, the story is about. This little [00:15:00] triangle that's named Posey and she is visiting, trying to look for a family. And there's different shapes that she's visiting. And I talk about how shapes are sorted according to how they look often, right? Like it's like squares or squares, rectangles with rectangles, all of that. And she doesn't have a place among the triangles. And so it's about her journey of finding home, and I don't wanna give the end away, but along her journey, going along with what you're saying. There is, I try to make reference to the different shapes that kind of symbolize what I see in different people's decisions, either not to adopt or to reject, or to not help or to place obstacles like you're saying in front of, uh, people that don't deserve that. Uh, and so I, I feel like a lot of the reason people do that is comfortability. It's not comfortable to have to step out and. The, and put yourself in a place of trauma, you know, because even though the trauma that my [00:16:00] kids have gone through, I didn't go through, there is secondary effects to walking with somebody who's gone through it, but it's like they didn't ask for the life that they had. So who am I to say that I'm not willing to step out of where I'm at and. Be involved in, in the life that you know, they do deserve. And so I'm just trying to kind of share that in a very kid friendly way in a book of just, here are the reasons why some shapes like to stay sorted and don't wanna intermingle, but here's the beauty that can happen when we do intermingle with each other. And that's what the end ends up showing.
Kara: What are some examples of moments when you have realized that your kids are thriving?
Amanda: Hmm. Yes. I mean, honestly right now, like we're in such a fun season where. I have two that just turned 13, which, so they're teenagers, but they're still in middle school and you know, they're figuring themselves out and all that and, and [00:17:00] loving the idea that they can say they're a teen now. And then my oldest is 16 and she is living her best life. She is just. Her thing's, music, and she got into the top choir at her school, which she's always dreamed about, and she's a cheerleader and I watch her from stage and I watch her in front of the audience at football games. And I just think like, she could've missed this and she deserved this. You know what I mean? And, again, that doesn't place me in a position of anything. It's literally just. Kids just need love, whether it's me, whether it's somebody else, like anybody. They just need love to thrive. And, it's just neat to see her in that place right now. And, and then, like I said, my other two, yeah, they're in middle school, so there's the whole usual middle school quirks that we're dealing with, but at the same time, they're, they're thriving too. And just navigating, still loving to be a family, but also gaining some independence and, and all of that. And it's just neat that we're, we're now [00:18:00] navigating, I feel like. Normal teenage things, whereas we had the years of just healing and
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: That kind of thing, which has built the foundation for them now to thrive, and it's just neat to see.
Kara: How has integrating your biological son into the whole mix? How, like, has it been seamless? Has it had the, um, your other kids, like, loved seeing that whole process or the parts they saw? Like how did, how did that blend happen?
Amanda: Yeah. Thanks for asking about that, because he is an important part of the equation too. And so he is my youngest, but he actually was our second, so we adopted internationally. Then I got pregnant with him right away, and then, um, Asher Matea came later and I, David and I, David's my husband, we always say he was like the perfect kid to be in the loop with everybody because. Like, I don't know how to explain it 'cause he's somebody you just have to meet to really understand. But he is just [00:19:00] like, even though he is the youngest, he is just very confident and a leader and all this. And he will do anything for his siblings. He's obsessed with them and it was just, he was met to be in this family and they love him as well.
Amanda: And you know, there are times he has even had to be educated with certain things that maybe he's repeated, that he's heard or that he's. Just maybe ask innocent questions 'cause he doesn't know. Uh, but for the most part it's just been pretty seamless and they all love each other so much.
Kara: It is so interesting to see how it is. A family dynamic like that where the birth order is a little, um, outta whack, right? Like how that impacts personalities, who, you know, from a birth order perspective because he was your second child, but now he's also the youngest. Like, it's, I'm so curious, like how, what tendencies are right. Come out of that [00:20:00] scenario because mm-hmm.
Amanda: It's interesting too because when we, when we were in pursuit of, of starting our second adoption, 'cause even though there's two of them, it was all one adoptions there, bio siblings. So, um, when we were doing that, we were actually told. Very negative things along the way from experts who were saying, you know, you should never adopt out of birth order. You should never adopt a sibling group. You should never adopt older kids. Right. After having, just like we were doing all the things that they were saying not to and, and to be like very clear, I was not trying to do the things they were saying not to. I was already on that path and we were being told all these warnings. There were times I was just like, so I, I have a strong faith and I knew that God wanted me to do this, so there are so many times I was like, okay, I just have to lean on that because all these people are telling me very different things and I feel good when I'm aligned with what I think God wants me to do.
Amanda: But I'm feeling pretty bad when I'm having these sidebar conversations and. Um, I'm so glad. Obviously I didn't [00:21:00] listen, but I wanted to say that because people do ask about that. Like, well, why did you do the birth order? Why did you adopt order? Why did you do two? And it's like, 'cause sometimes siblings can be separated and that's heartbreaking to me. Um, and so anyway, I just, if anyone has like, been thinking about adopting, I just wanna point out that it doesn't have to be done by the book. It can still work out and, and be really beautiful.
Kara: I mean, I've, I've been joking that, you know, I can't wait to adopt an older child because then I'll look like a younger mom than I actually am. Like,
Amanda: That's hilarious.
Kara: It's like, why wouldn't we just adopt like, oh, you're 18. Great. Like, let's, let's add some years back into my, my less
Amanda: I will say, uh, Matea and I joke about that 'cause I'm definitely the younger mom at her school. That was not on purpose, but that actually is a good idea.
Kara: And I think it's so, um, all the rules around like [00:22:00] how to have a family and, and rules around like the right order of operations to love someone again, just like Seems like. Such contrast to, no, we're just gonna love them anyway. Like, it almost feels like when you're looking at adoption and foster journeys.
Kara: That they forget how insane biological families can be. And even in loving homes, it can be a hot mess. And like different people going through different struggles, different people having different traumas, like there's no one's being asked to go to therapy and like having their act together to have biological children.
Amanda: No.
Kara: And even for people again, who are doing all the things and loving correctly, like. It gives me relief knowing that if you choose to be a parent, there's no way to get out of traumatizing your kids like they're gonna go to therapy and talk about you no matter what.
Amanda: Yeah, Liam will [00:23:00] be in therapy just like the others.
Kara: Yeah. And so, you know, like no matter how great your heart is centered and your intentions, like you're still gonna do something that's gonna cause a big tear, a little T trauma, and. I just, again, like I just, in the state of the world that we're in today, where we need more unity, we need more love, we need more people taking care of each other. Like again, like why is it so hard? My sister complains all the time about how complicated it is to adopt a dog when they're like on the kill shelter list.
Kara: You're like, so, because I don't have a backyard, I can't have a dog that you were gonna kill anyway. Like, what are we doing?
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah, that's wild.
Kara: It makes my brain start to melt down. Um, you know, when you, um, adopting and also foster care, um, can also be really expensive journeys, [00:24:00] did you find that it was a very expensive path? Do you think that there are more alternatives for people that make adopting more affordable?
Amanda: Yeah, so I was, I believe 22 when I started the first adoption. And I, I mean, maybe there's some wealthy 20, 20, 20 2-year-old daughter. I was not one of them. And I was, you know, just out of college really, and, and newly married. And um, I just remember that being one of my husband's concerns of like, well, aren't we supposed to be trying to build a family? Foundation here, and you're wanting to be an entrepreneur and, but so international adoption is, is pretty costly for sure. Um, I will say that we did a lot of fundraising, but not in a way of asking for money, but in a way of like an exchange of some sort. So he. Used his skill of woodwork and sold different things with that. And I, um, you know, had t-shirts made or different services or different things that we could provide to, to not just ask for money but try to, [00:25:00] to raise funds that way. Um, and, but the foster care experience, I was expecting that to be similar, just because, I mean, that's how we started and I'm like, all right, gotta start saving up for however this looks. But we actually didn't, um, the way that foster care works, I mean, obviously like. If you're adopting out of, out of foster care, you need to pay for the regular expenses of having a child. But the process itself is covered by the state, depending on the state. So, um, we adopted from Texas, so our situation was great because it was covered.
Amanda: Um, but yeah, so I would definitely say if, if you're worried about an expense. Um, which is so hard for me to even talk about children and money and all that 'cause it just feels so, like why is this even a thing? But I also get it. Um, but you know, I always, I never want my kids to think like we've paid for them sort of thing.
Amanda: So it's like a hard conversation, but I, it's a real thing at the same time. And so I would say the best way to do it is if that's an obstacle [00:26:00] and keeping you from looking into adoption that foster care actually is a, a really good way to adopt without the financial impact.
Kara: Well, I think no matter how you create a family, there's a cost.
Amanda: Exactly. So it's
Kara: The hospital and they're, yeah, they're like, here's your bill of 10 or 20, or whatever, a thousand dollars for. This baby that you thought you were having the cheapest way possible.
Amanda: Yeah. And that's what I try to tell my kids is it's like when we talk about expenses, because that is a question we get, I'm always like, it wasn't a, uh. You know, you like to be paid for your sort of thing. That's not the language it is. It's, it's, we paid for court fees, we paid for paperwork, we paid for people to help with the process like that is what we're talking about.
Amanda: Just so that they feel better about that.
Kara: Yeah, it's, it's, um. It is interesting and, and it's such a topic of conversation right now about why people are choosing to either not start a family or keep their family smaller than they might want because there are so [00:27:00] many financial hurdles in being parents in America today. I was watching a woman last night who's like a kind of mom influencer and she's like, here's why I spent $6,000 on childcare in the past.
Kara: Month, let me break it down for you. And she has four kids and they were, each was around $1,500 for a month of their care. You know, pre-K, preschool and afterschool care for the two older kids. And it's like most families don't even have $6,000. A month in general, let alone extra to pay for those things.
Kara: You know? And you mentioned, um, and why we had you on before is like, you're this incredible entrepreneur. You've made a product, you've done coaching, you've done head marketing agencies like you are such an example in your personal and professional life of like, I'm gonna make my own roadmap. Thanks, bye.
Amanda: Thank you. That's actually very [00:28:00] accurate. My parents would say the same thing.
Kara: And I think for me, like this is why I love entrepreneurship because you can be like, oh, I need to figure out a way to make this happen. Okay, we're gonna find a way to make it happen. And I don't know that people are always as brave if they haven't taken some of those actions and have proven to themselves that they can do it.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Kara: Um, but I do think it's daunting when you think about the costs of. Kids. 'cause you don't, you don't want that to be why you're saying yes or no. And it can be such a hole in your heart if you know there's room for more kids in your heart, but there's not more room for your kids in your budget.
Amanda: Yeah.
Kara: Like, how are you guys making choices to balance, um, how big of a family you want and like how much you can kind of afford or figure out along the way.
Amanda: Yeah, I wanted to address that question for sure, but I just had a thought. Kind of going back [00:29:00], if you don't mind
Amanda: Yeah, sure.
Amanda: something else you said. Um, because I think. So many times when, when our heart is pulled towards adoption, but we're not sure if we, we are the ones that are, are supposed to adopt.
Amanda: That is a great way is to financially support somebody who wants to adopt, but may have that be an obstacle because, you know, I know so many people when we are on that journey, being young and, and not having a whole lot at the time, there were several who said, you know, I have a heart for this, but I personally don't think I'm called to adopt.
Amanda: I know for, I know you guys are, and so I would love to financially support whatever, like, you know, pick something and let us cover it or that kind of thing. And so I wanna say that because I feel like people listening and maybe you're listening and thinking, yes, I would love to adopt. And if that's the case, reach out to me. I'd love to chat with you, but. You also might be thinking, I don't think this is for me, but I also do wanna help. And so find a family that is in that process and, and, and [00:30:00] see what kind of ways you can come alongside them. 'cause that made such a difference for us.
Kara: And how incredible for people to volunteer that to you?
Amanda: Yeah. Well, I mean, there were times where it would be like we would have a payment due for the process, especially the international. 'cause there's just a lot of payments that would come in and a check would arrive from somebody. With that same sentiment for the exact amount we needed, and they didn't even know. I mean, it's just like, it's pretty incredible what happens when you take that step. And like I said, both sides. I mean, yes, we might be the ones adopting, but the people supporting us were a part of it. Just as much you know of, of that process at least.
Kara: Well, and, and I think this is so true for any time that we lean into knowing what we should be doing
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Kara: And we're really listening and we're going for it and not always knowing how it's gonna happen, we're like, okay, I don't know what this road looks like, but we're saying yes. And you hear these stories over and over again. [00:31:00] Um, when people start a business, when people decide that they need to move, when people decide they need to leave a situation that was really hard for them to do. Now this story of the adoption journey there is so like, I'm getting chills thinking about this, that there is so much power in choosing what you know you're supposed to do and then allowing. The community and the village to support you along the way.
Amanda: Yeah,
Kara: Like, we don't do anything by ourselves,
Amanda: no.
Kara: like,
Amanda: Think that, but we, we don't and we shouldn't.
Kara: no, no, no. It's so much like I am someone who, who I like, I don't usually cry because I'm sad. I will cry because I'm so moved by humanity and possibilities and hope. Like there's, um, it's just. You get cracked open when you actually allow people to contribute to you.
Kara: And yeah, [00:32:00] there's, um, Rachel Dratch has a podcast called woowoo with Rachel Dratch. She's like an ex SNL comedian.
Amanda: Oh, neat.
Kara: And I want to go on her podcast simply because I wanna talk about all of these miracles that have shown up every time someone has said yes to what they know they're supposed to be doing, like. It time and time again, women on this podcast have talked about, I took the leap of faith and look at what showed up, and I'm like, this cannot be in a, like, we have too much data to show that this is not a, a statistical fluke of how this works and I don't like, I don't know, like how do we back that into being brave and being courageous?
Kara: Like how has your level of courage shifted in this process?
Amanda: Oh my goodness. So, so much. I mean that probably, now that you say that, 'cause you kind of recapped to me some, like, you know, you've done this and this, which was so kind to share that with me. Hearing that mirrored [00:33:00] back. I mean, honestly, like it probably did start with just being able to take that leap of faith with Evelyn at such a young age. And, you know, this is, it's too long of a story to share, but honestly, like just bringing her home and the process was traumatic in itself. Not anything to do with her, just the whole process. Um, and, and things I had to overcome at such a young age. That by the time I got to starting businesses, I'm like, yeah, I'll figure it out. It'll be fine. Like me, let's say it doesn't work. Oh, oh, well, it's not gonna be as bad, you know? So it is true, like when you step into these, these unknowns and, and you conquer it, it's like, oh, you, you can do a lot of things. You can do a lot of hard things. So it definitely boosts confidence.
Kara: I don't know if you've listened to our episode with Gemi Bertran and her adoption story.
Amanda: No, but I want to, no.
Kara: It's, she is such a powerhouse. She's originally from Spain, lives in California now, and adopted her daughter, I believe from [00:34:00] Haiti. And um. She, I don't remember if she had her biological son before. I think it was before she was adopted. She's like, I knew there was a daughter out there for me and I needed to find her, but the story is bananas. And I had no idea that this is what we're gonna talk about when she came on because she has this incredible, um, like neuro brain institute that she works with and why she got to that is her adoption story.
Kara: I won't reveal all of it 'cause it's so powerful to hear her tell it. But essentially she had to escape with her daughter out of a coup in Haiti.
Amanda: Wow.
Kara: It's like I've never, it is by far the most shocking bomb drop that I've had in a podcast recording where I'm like, wait, what? And the podcast went a completely different direction as a result.
Kara: But when you talk about what people will do when you know like, no, no. That's my kid we like, so I'm
Amanda: [00:35:00] I mean, yeah, I should connect with her because I had, mine was very similar in the fact that the country closed down and I, we weren't supposed to. Um, leave. And so I got stuck over there
Amanda: Yeah.
Amanda: And until, by the grace of God, he did allow us to leave, but it was three months and, and through a really scary situation.
Amanda: So, um, yeah. Yeah. And not, I don't want that to be a discouraging thing. That's not the norm. Now you have two guests saying this about international. Nothing. This is not the norm,
Kara: I mean, I also notice, uh, friends of friends that, um, have adopted both of their daughters from the Ukraine and the second daughter was adopted like they were in Ukraine when they got invaded.
Amanda: Hmm.
Kara: had to escape Ukraine with like all the other Ukrainians in the same way, like from the Russian invasion.
Kara: And [00:36:00] so again, I also prefacing that majority of adoptions do not involve
Amanda: Yeah. It doesn't
Kara: Wars and Coups
Amanda: Just. That also just speaks to how needed it is though. Like us, that's traumatic for these children. That's their life, that's their norm, and it shouldn't be. And so yeah, I think that's really what it, what it is, is it's like, yeah, that's, that may not be a situation you want to enter in, and it could sound scary hearing that, but at the same time, all the more reason to adopt and, and make sure these kids are safe.
Kara: I had a powerful conversation series, um, episode, a couple of episodes back, and we had women from different NGOs around the world, Kenya, Tanzania, Syria. Burma, I'm missing one. I apologize. And all of these women are, one of them even said, oh, if we get bombed while we're recording, I'll just jump back on Zoom.
Kara: I was like, or not like [00:37:00] that sounds way more important than this dumb podcast that we're recording and.
Amanda: really puts things in perspective, doesn't it?
Kara: Oh well, and it was so empowering to hear what these women were dealing with on a regular basis and how one of them started working with kids and they had to get into education and then farming to feed the kids. And you realize when you care about something, the ecosystem starts to show up that you also have to take care of. And it was empowering for me because all of these women have gone through. Different governments, different leaders, different rights, different rules, different uh, access to funding and hope and possibilities and things taken away.
Kara: And it was just so, it was eye-opening and such a refreshing reminder because even when you've traveled a lot as an American, you normally are like, there's a safety net to go back to where you know that things have stability. [00:38:00] And things have not felt that way in the past year and hearing these women be like, oh yeah, like it doesn't really matter. We just keep going forward. We keep doing our work, we keep doing the thing, and, and you're just going like, oh my gosh. Like what? We are such babies. We are so privileged. And yeah, it just, it, it re kind of centered me that, such a reminder that all the outside activity forces influence whatever it is we o tend to over.
Kara: Not that it's not important to speak up and sit up for things that you believe in. Uh, and we still, like, we have our own bubble that we get to design and create and keep doing all the things that we know to do despite whatever's happening around us. These women were such examples of that when I asked 'em how powerful they all are, they're like, 10, 20, 100. And I'm like, great. [00:39:00] Like you women are so inspiring.
Amanda: I love that so much.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Kara: Uh, so we skipped over like the financial parts. We're
Amanda: Oh yes,
Kara: 'cause I know a lot of people No, it's okay. We got excited. But a lot of people will wanna know, like even like. Just knowing in general, like how much does your budget increase when you have a kid?
Kara: Like, you know, there's no concept of how many diapers you're gonna have to buy or groceries or school fees and sports. Like it adds up so quickly.
Amanda: Yeah.
Kara: So like, I'm like, how are you guys managing that or thinking about it when it comes to your family financial goals and saying yes to all the things the kids just want, let alone need.
Amanda: Yeah, I, I would say, I mean, 'cause I just think this is just having kids in general, not even really an adoption thing. I, we've especially noticed it now that they're getting older. My husband and I have had many conversations of, okay, what boundaries are we gonna set at this point? [00:40:00] Because, you know, actually I just had a conversation with my oldest a couple days ago because, uh, she, her, so gifts are her way of showing love. She loves to give gifts and she, I mean, she likes receiving them too, but she does. I was about to give up and I noticed this pattern of her coming home and saying, I need a gift for this person and this person. Like for cheer or for choir, or for, for this and that. And it made me pause after like, you know, several of these and I was like, okay, is this a mandatory thing or is this like a you thing?
Amanda: Like you want them to have a gift because it's their birthday or you want this because you wanna celebrate them? Because I love that. I love that. This is your heart. But I would think we need to draw a line in the sand that if it's a mandatory thing, like we've put you in the activity and there's a mandatory expense, this activity, we will cover that. But on the flip side, if this is something that you just want to do or be a part of, or you wanna go out with your friends and get something. [00:41:00] To eat or the movie or whatever. At that point, you're 16 and you're gonna have to come up with that money. Right? And so I know some people listening might have younger kids and they can't have them working for their money yet, but like it's stuff like that, these conversations that I'm realizing in real time, especially with her being my oldest, that, oh, this isn't something we can maintain in our budget to just be handing money left and right for everything you wanna do. You know? So I think that's where we're at, like, um. We've always kind of been that way too, like, here's our kid budget and this is like a budget line item of, of kids. And then, um. That's what we have. And you know, so that's why they're only in one sport each season instead of multiple activities. That's why they're, um, you know, we have to say no sometimes to certain things so that we can say yes to like some of their favorite things that they do. So yeah, it's costly, but it also really helps being really open and having those conversations with them and explaining to them like, Hey, our gift [00:42:00] budget is X amount and we have spent double that this month. Let's have a conversation. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's one example.
Kara: No, I think it does. Like I remember my parents being very open. At least it occurred to me that they were very open as a kid about what money we had and didn't have and where I had to go. And I really appreciated that they were sharing that information with me, even if they were, you know, kid deifying the message I was getting. But I also, um, have lived in Europe and when I was living in Europe, a lot of that time I was working on kids' products. I was reading like parent magazines and other stuff all around that industry. And the European approach to being parents and raising kids is so different from the US in the sense that kids are supposed to be bored and they don't need to be scheduled all the time.
Amanda: was about to say, David had a lot more freedom growing up with being Yeah. Raised in England.[00:43:00]
Kara: Yeah, and just, and just the idea that like, they don't need all this stuff. And you know, it's kind of like, what is the A cat's favorite toy A box? What is a kid's favorite toy? A box like. You know, we overcomplicate it so quickly here in the US and it has to be 45 sports, and if they aren't doing all the tutoring, they're not gonna make it into college. You're like, hold on. Like there's, there's some people who are talking about the backlash of overcommitting and the over stimulating and filling up of kids where they like, they need time to be creative and get bored and.
Amanda: Yeah.
Kara: Uh, you know, the boredom also leads to be able to manage your attention and expectations and all these other things, and so I think it's a really interesting pivot point of parenting in the us, especially when so many more dads are involved than generations past, and there's so much more emotional intelligence getting layered on.
Kara: I am very curious what, [00:44:00] what is it like Gen alpha. Gen beta. I don't even know what
Amanda: I.
Kara: No more.
Amanda: lost track after Gen Z.
Kara: Yeah. Um, but I'm very curious about what the current under 18 generations are going to look like because of the information and resources and presence that. Parents have that have never occurred in prior generations at this level.
Amanda: Absolutely. And to speak to that, like one thing that was surprising about. Um, all that we went through with the early years of having them, like their younger years, we did do, like I said, a lot of therapy and a lot of different things to help them heal. But through that it actually formed my parenting because I would learn so much through just reading and educating myself and all that and, and studying the brain. I would learn how important it was for them to not be in front of a screen all the time, or to not be entertained all the time, or to be involved in everything. And how important to [00:45:00] attachment it is to literally just be together and like doing basic things parallel, play all these different things instead of just, you know. Signing 'em up for something and, and getting them out of your hair sort of thing, like that wasn't an option for us. We needed to bond, we needed to attach and we needed to heal, but through that we were able to build like such a solid foundation of like really good habits for them because you know, my daughter's 16 now, so she does have a phone, but it's like very limited she hardly even like cares because she wasn't raised on it. And like my two 13 year olds still don't really have one. And no judgment if somebody does that, that just doesn't work for our family. But I'm saying I'm seeing the benefits having had to, had to make these decisions when they were younger has now actually helped them really blossom into really creative, just like laid back kids, you know?
Kara: Mm-hmm. I think it's fascinating that people are putting landlines in
Amanda: Yeah. Yeah.
Kara: And this and this idea that, you know, it was, you get to monitor [00:46:00] who your kids are talking to, and you get to, you are forced to overhear their conversations and there's so many kids who are like, so excited about. The phone rings and you get to run to it.
Kara: Meanwhile, like my siblings and I are pushing each other out of the way to see if we get there first. Um, but I, I kind, I kind of love that there is some of this, you know, forced regression in technology that's, that's, that kids think it's crazy because it's so foreign. And I'm like, wow, you're excited about it. Attach to the wall a long cord phone. Okay, we're gonna go with it.
Amanda: That's really funny. Yeah. Simple times,
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: simpler times.
Kara: Yes. Um, well, so for everybody who wants to follow you, support you, find your book, give it to friends, where can they find support and do all those things.
Amanda: Yes. So I would say that um, if you wanna head to Amazon and search [00:47:00] for Love Shapes the Heart, the best thing would be to just order the book. Just head straight there and order it. I did wanna add that, um. Like I said, this was published very briefly, several years back. And um, so some people have said, well, I got a copy then, but I do wanna say that this one has a bonus feature, which I added a video where I dive into kind of like the intentionality behind the book and, and. Basically you can watch it with your family and have a better understanding of the messaging and the meaning behind the book. So I'm really excited about that. Um, but yes, head there and do that. And if you want to get in touch with me, I am mostly over on Instagram at Amanda, KKAY, Faust, F-O-U-S-T. And I'd love to hear what you think if you get the book or wanna chat adoption or anything like that.
Kara: Well, thank you so much for being someone who sees a need and fills it. Because that alone is a unique personality trait. Um, I'm so glad that our paths have crossed [00:48:00] you're on for a second time as a podcast guest, and I just continued to just be inspired by all the things that you're doing and how you're making it all work. Um. Yeah, you really are an example of a woman who is choosing what she knows is right for her and being brave and creating that process and all the areas of your life that I like. Again, I'm observing from our conversations and Instagram, but you're making business work. You're making family work. You're making all the layers of both of those things. Work and it's like, okay, like look, she's making it look easy. We know it's not, but it doesn't have to be as complicated and scary as we think it is on either side.
Amanda: Yes. Well thank you so much for saying that. And I just wanna also say, first of all, I just love that I'm back because I loved it the first time I was here and I was excited. But like even just what you did with it. Hearing that I have this book and saying, Hey, I wanna, I have a platform for this. I wanna talk about this.
Amanda: Like, that's another example of [00:49:00] maybe, maybe adoption's in your future. Maybe it's not, I don't know. But you're still helping move that forward by doing something like this and having me on. So I really appreciate it.
Speaker: Thanks for listening to The Powerful Ladies Podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe. Leave us a review or share it with a friend. Head to the powerful ladies.com. We can find all the links to connect with today's guest show notes, discover like episodes, enjoy bonus content and more.
Speaker: We'll be back next week with a brand new episode and new amazing guest. Make sure you're following us on Instagram or Substack at Powerful ladies. To get the first preview of next week's episode, you can find me and all my socials@karaduffy.com. This is a Powerful Ladies production produced by Jordan Duffy and Amanda Kass.
Speaker: Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Episode 156: From Haiti to Barcelona: A Powerful Mother–Daughter Adoption Story with Gemi & Ili Bertran
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