Episode 264: Forget the Org Chart, This Is How Real Influence Works | Maggie Larkin Hicok | Organizational Culture & Leadership Coach
Maggie Larkin Hicok helps leaders grow their influence from the inside out. In this episode, Kara and Maggie talk about workplace culture, coaching executives, and what it means to be a goofball that gets results. They also dig into values-based leadership, curiosity as a superpower, and why real power doesn’t require a title.
“We need to curate what we’re willing to listen to, what we’re watching, what we’re willing to influence us. We need to have such a discerning mind. It’s so important to be skeptical and really listen for the truth.”
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Chapters:
(00:00:01) – Influence Without Authority and the Reputation Story
(00:04:15) – Coaching the C-Suite on Values and Culture
(00:10:10) – When Values Don’t Align and What to Do About It
(00:16:30) – From Archeology Dreams to Executive Coaching
(00:22:00) – Be a Goofball That Works: Humor as a Superpower
(00:29:30) – How Curiosity Can Change Your Leadership Style
(00:34:45) – What Island of the Blue Dolphins Taught Her About Power
(00:40:00) – The Media, the Truth, and Curating What Influences You
(00:46:15) – Do What You Love and He’ll Show Up: A Words With Friends Love Story
Follow along using the Transcript
And he looks at my dad and he goes You're Maggie Larkin's father? And my dad says, yeah. And he's like, how much do you need? So my dad used to tell that story. And what he said was, you know, I was writing checks on my eight year old daughter's reputation. He knew then that I would have influence beyond my authority.
That's Maggie Larkin Hickoff. I'm Kara Duffy and this is the Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Welcome to the Powerful Ladies Podcast.
Thank you.
I'm really excited you're here. You're one of my favorite humans and we've been talking about you having on the podcast for a while. So it's finally come around. Yeah. You are also a fellow coach consultant and I met you through the fabulous Eaton's. Nancy Eaton, who has been a two time podcast guest once for herself and once with Reagan for Casa.
But I'd love for you to tell everyone your name, where you are in the world and what you're up to. Like geographically where I am or yeah, sure. We, I mean, we can cover all of it, whichever, whatever feels good to you.
So I'm Maggie Larkin Hickok. I am married to David Hickok. We live in Lakewood, California, which is right adjacent to Long Beach.
And we've lived in this house for about five years.
And what do you do? What are you up to? How do you describe how you're changing the world?
I am a coach. A I've really in the space of, I used to say I was a business coach, but I quickly learned I'm not a business coach. I am a coach in the space of culture.
So I generally work with C suite folks and what we work on is their ability to lead their culture and to be a model for the culture they want in their organization.
That's not an easy task.
It's not.
So knowing that you have confidence in your business and services being needed, you know, there's, this comes up with my clients too.
How do we be the leaders we want to be? How do we manage the people that we end up hiring and having our teams, right? And how do we make sure that our values are actually showing up in those interactions? Because Sometimes running a business is like being on a life raft. And when you're in a life raft, people don't always prioritize the warm, fuzzy mission, vision values.
Right. Well said.
So, so how are you getting in there with the C suite to really make a difference for them?
Well, I would say over time, my sorting mechanism has gotten better. So I, when I first started working, I was willing to take on anybody and I've gotten more picky, more Really interested in people who want to be made a difference with, if that's proper English you know, I'll work with somebody who's really, you know, kind of a problem child, if you will, but they don't, they don't get what I have to offer.
And so I found that I'm, I'm more of a fit for somebody who really wants to struggle with what does it mean to be a good leader. And. Like you said it's not It's not easy where I find I can make the biggest difference is with somebody who's really searching for access to being a good leader and willing to examine their own point of view their own impact their own Relationship with the people they work with and the the world they serve if you will
well, there's that you know Statement colloquialism phrase of it's not it's not personal.
It's business,
right?
And like, that's such BS because business is made up of humans and every choice we make does impact somebody on a personal level, hopefully for the better. And, and it is like, we're working with human beings all the time. So when you see a hot mess of a leader, like, where do you, where do you begin?
Where can someone listening who's going, Oh no, I'm a leader, I'm probably not doing anything right. Like, where can they start to get on course so that they can have a little bit more confidence that maybe they're leading in the right direction?
Well, I guess the first place that I would start is having them articulate what they're up to.
What's in, well, no, I'll even back up further than that. Where I generally start with people is what are their core values and is the work that they're doing in the classroom. they're doing it available to them to actually fulfill their core values. So if you're one of the things that we talk about is if you are, whatever situation you're in, you will either.
Feel the impact of your core values being honored, or you will fight like the devil to get them honored, or you'll just go, you'll just leave. So one of the places I start with people is what are your core values? And do you see the possibility of you actualizing those values in the position you're in right now?
And if the answer to that is yes, it could be, yeah, but I don't know how. Well, that's great. That's why we're working together. If, if the answer to that is yes, then absolutely. We can, we can make magic.
Yeah. Well, and, and there's the values of the business and there's the values of the individuals who are working there and sometimes they align, sometimes they don't.
If someone is working for a company that their values are incongruent with what the business values are, should they leave? Is that a conversation to have? How do you, when your, when your values don't align with the place you're working at? Can you change it or should you leave?
Well, I always I I do believe that you can impact it so I was talking to a client this just came up with not just i've been working with this guy for quite some time and i'm kind of an off with their heads sort of person I have a, I have a short burn, if you will, this guy has a long burn and I was probably after a couple of months just constantly questioning him.
Can you, can you realize your core values in this setting? And. One of his values is loyalty. So the conversation about leaving was really hard for him to wrap his head around. So in that case, I don't know that he could have left. So what I did then was just coach him on how to express himself as authentically as they possibly can in a situation that felt very hopeless to him.
And fortunately. The, you know, kind of the powers that be saw, saw what he was talking about and made some significant changes. Are they out of the woods yet? You know, it'll take some time, but definitely he is beginning to, well, first of all, he's fulfilling that value of loyalty, right? For sure. And the other integrity was one of the other, there's an opportunity for it now.
So I don't know if I really answered your question. Sometimes yes, sometimes the answer is just, you know, get out and other times it's shift your relationship to what's going on so that you can impact it in the most positive manner.
For me, values are also something that's so important when you're interviewing somebody to expand your team because it's, you can't, I don't know, maybe this is inaccurate, but I would, I would say that you can't.
Teach someone to share your values. It's like just a personality trait at that point. Like that's what matters more to them. And sure. I think your values might adjust slightly over time and life experiences, but if someone doesn't value loyalty and that's really important to you, or someone doesn't value collaboration, and that's really important to you, it's going to be really hard to make everything work the way you need it to you know, for companies that do interview with looking for people's values.
Do they have a higher success rate or does that just mean they might have an easier starting point? Well,
I think, I think we have a different take on that. So in my experience, values don't have to line up necessarily. There needs to be the opportunity and the appetite To collaborate, given what your values are.
So I can interact really successfully with somebody who has a high loyalty value, although that loyalty isn't one of my values. I think what is most important in that conversation, when I first started doing this work around values, which is about 12 years ago, I used to say all values can collaborate as long as one of them isn't ax murdering.
So I just, I think that when we really honor each other and each other's values, We find a way to cooperate. We find a way to appreciate. And so just because I don't share the same set of values that you have, if we are both authentically operating from our values, the tendency is we will make something extraordinary happen that is kind of outside of both of our Point of view, current point of view.
I love that. How did you get into this work?
Well, I started, I majored in sociology in university and wanted to be an archeologist. So there you go. Me too. Really?
Yeah, that was how I started going to school and then it became a minor.
Right. Well, I didn't even minor in it. I think I minored in biology, but I can't imagine now given the way I deal with science that I ever could have successfully minored in any of the sciences, any of the hard sciences.
I was always really interested and, you know, I looked at the list of things we were going to talk about and I if I, part of it was history, I think, our personal history, but if I look at my personal history I had a great upbringing and not without its trials and tribulations, as we all have, but I was also, I remember as a kid, always wondering, how is this working?
Kind of, who's really in charge here? What stuff seems to come in that changes the mood and, and changes the atmosphere. I didn't always have language for it, but I remember noticing that as a kid, like, well, that was weird. And, or that was awesome. So I've always been interested in how groups operate.
How do they get along? And I worked for a very long time for a adult learning adult. Warrior Harding Associates was the name of it. I was what they called the first the graduate manager and then the participation manager So it was all about how do you get people once they've done the initial program?
How do you get them to completely to to do other things to want to participate in other things? So that was kind of that added to my Curiosity about it and then a friend of mine A guy who did volunteer work there started his own business and he was always complaining about how he couldn't Make it happen And you know, he didn't have the right employees or the ones he had were doing something and his name was dan I was like, okay dan, you need to call me every morning.
Tell me what's going on you know, we'll talk about it we'll make a game plan and We'll go from there so we started doing that and I was just doing it because the poor guy was miserable and I was Kind of tired of listening to him grouse about it. And one day he handed me some money and it wasn't very much.
I was like, what's this all about? And he's like, well, this is your commission because things are working. And then it got to be more and then it got to be more. And when I at one point I was thinking I could do this with 10 people, I could actually make a living doing this or, you know, kind of, so I started getting interested in that notion of coaching.
And a friend of mine introduced me to a woman who had a consultancy in And I worked with her for, I don't know, close to 12 years, 15 years, maybe, and really got grounded in how to work with teams and how to coach people using the skill sets and the, the kind of the discipline and methodology that I learned.
And being a participation manager and at some point in the mid 2000s went out on my own.
Did it, were you ready and running towards to doing things on your own or was there some trepidation?
Oh, major trepidation. But also a feeling that I, I didn't want to be I didn't want to be doing somebody else's work, which was, you know, when you own a consultancy with, we were all independent contractors but at some point there were maybe 25 of us.
But it was a very much, you know, structured a woman who knew what she wanted and, you know, you did it her way or you didn't do it at all. And at some point I wanted to kind of goof around more than she did.
How does goofing around show up in your work?
I think it's just really about being yourself and being willing to see the humor in it all. Actually, one of the things that I really appreciate about the work that I did with her organization is when I was brand brand new. We did this course. It was a week long course. And there were different parts of it and different of the consultants We usually worked in teams of three sometimes four would deliver different parts of the The work and she I was really new to it.
She said to me, okay get up there and you know lead this part I was like, okay, so I go up there and you know, I do the whole thing and i'm yeah Being a coach, being a consultant, and I'm and we take a break, and I come to the back of the room, and she's like, what was that? And I was like, what was what?
She's like, well, you got up there, and you got serious, and you got all school marmy, and, you know, it was just weird. And I was like, well, you know. I didn't want to look like a goofball. And she said, Maggie, you are a goofball. That's what we like about you. So be a goofball that works. And so that was really the beginning of me thinking, realizing that I could just, I could have fun with this, that if I would just be myself, then whatever I had to contribute, share, participate with, would be.
My clients it it was it was good. I was going to transmit that By being myself.
I don't think enough people realize that when they are themselves and build their business around who they actually are That's how I help people double their money And Of course, there's like other just really simple systems that i'm amazed don't exist for people and that also can help out a lot but usually the big jumps are Like actually being you I hate the word niche, like a niching down.
And it's just, it, I don't like how it's used in, in most common business vernacular, but there is something really powerful about. Being a magnet and the light by being who you really are to attract who actually wants to hang out with you And learn from you and work with you. That's almost like reverse niching Like i'm just going to be myself and see who shows up right exactly exactly and I work with so many different types of industries and people that when someone are asked like what's your niche i'm like The only thing I can say is that we share values so whatever, whatever value niching looks like, I think that's what I'm doing.
But it's, it's, there's, it's, to me, it's such a gift to help people in this space. And I've gotten so much out of being a coach and a consultant, no matter what I was working on. Like I want other people to feel that I won't be able to feel like when they're doing what they're supposed to do. And they were like, kind of like, you're like, why did you pay me?
I was doing it anyway. Like, how has being a coach and consultant changed you and how you see the world?
Well, it's made me have to really practice what I preach. Oh yeah. So
my background is Irish and I don't want to smear the entire Irish culture, but we do have a reputation for being judgy and I was really good at it.
And,
you know, one of the things I am always talking with people about is, is there another way to see what you are looking at, then the current perspective because the current perspective is not giving you what you want. And, you know, I guess that old saying is those who know, those who, is that what it is?
Those who know. Do and those who can't teach. I forget how that thing goes, but something like that. So there's, that's one thing that's really changed for me is my ability to notice. When I'm just stuck in my point of view and you know, kind of have a sense of humor about it and, and it just happens all the time, right?
You know, this, I came home from doing errands yesterday and I, my husband had dropped off his car and I picked him up, I went to the grocery store while he stayed in the car with the dogs and. Then I had to go and do something else that was for both of us, and I come back and the groceries are still on the counter, and I immediately was like, I can't even set the groceries, so I begrudgingly, and then I noticed that the perishables were put away, and so I was like, oh, okay, well, that's good.
And then David comes out of his office and he's like, Oh, by the way, Lily, our dog, our eight year old threw up all of her, her lunch. And so that was a big mess I had to clean up. And I was like, okay, well, all right. Judgy pants. He actually was doing something that serves the whole household. And, you know, you jumped to some conclusion about I'm the only one that does anything around here.
So, but that's kind of a hard lesson to learn, right? Is the ability to. Stop yourself and notice that you just, you know, giving people interacting with people as if the way you see it is the reality and not just not giving any for instance, in that situation, just not giving any thought to maybe something came up or maybe had to jump on a call or who knows, just being, you know, Judgey about I'm the only one that doesn't thing around here and that's a that's something you have to live to be able to have those conversations with people who are are managing much more complex situations than me coming back from errands to find the groceries still on the counter.
And I had a conversation with a client where I was like, well, what if you're wrong about this scenario? And they were, you could see them react. I'm like, okay, well, maybe you're not wrong, but what if you're not right? And they were like, okay, tell me more. But it's, it's, it is like, we forget to be curious.
And obviously it's an advantage sometimes because. Using past based information helps us be really efficient sometimes it helps us go and move and move, but whenever we're in that conflict state or whatever, or even in just an icky state, like we have to get curious if I forget, I think, is it Sabin coach Sabin who says if you get furious, get curious?
And I, I love that statement and curiosity is actually one of my big values like curiosity and learning kind of hang out together. And it's, we often don't think when we're leading teams or in relationship with people that we have time to get curious. We have time to figure out what's actually going wrong.
So I'm curious, curious, your perspective, because. Sometimes I do think we just need to make sure everyone knows how we feel and like move through a situation because of where there just truly isn't time. And it's, it is a red flag situation. And other times we do have to pause even when we think we shouldn't and figure it out.
Do you agree with that? Or like, how can we, how can we have it all and stay on track, stay on time, not let the customer down, especially in like an, an event situation that's live. Like there are moments when i'm like we're gonna talk about this later, but go fix this right now so like when is it okay to be more reactionary and just kind of demanding like diva mode maybe versus being in a And feel free to correct any of my word choices.
And then when is it okay to, or when should you take more time to be the leader that you want to be?
Well, I think you have to be really discerning about timing weighed against moving a conversation forward. Right. So like in your event, it's probably not the time to. You know, figure out what exactly went wrong.
It's just really fix it, right? So I think the sort of the rule of thumb for me is if something goes by you once, well, you probably can let it go. So in that moment, something, you know, microphone fell off the table or, you know, you're somebody pulled your earbud out of your ear. Who knows? So in the moment, it's really critical, but if it doesn't come back up again, probably isn't worth going into.
If something comes back a number of times, two, three, it's kind of personal how you want to interact with that. But if it comes back more than twice, I think it's really important that you address it and also address it in a neutral environment, if at all possible. So don't have that hard conversation when everybody's hot is how I talk about it with my clients.
It's an important conversation to have, but you really want to have it. When cooler heads prevail, so again, just going back to that simple example coming back and seeing the groceries Had I gone after him at the level I was reacting well big fight would ensue because you know, i'm taking care of the dog and I'm doing this and we'd both be like nobody appreciates me around here.
Yeah And I really have learned to manage You Most of the time my upset so that I can really look, is this something I need to talk about or is it just, you know, I got thwarted in the moment. So that's one of the things that I really work on with people is check it out and make sure, first of all, that you know what you want to ask, that you know the requests that you want to make of somebody and Was it just a momentary thing where somebody inadvertently tripped over a cord and pulled the headset out of your head?
Or is there really an issue with that person not being present in the environment or something like that?
If we go back to eight year old you, would she have imagined that this is the life that you have today?
Can I tell a story? So when I was about eight years old, my parents moved out to California when I was about three and we moved into a house that was very close to where my dad was going to work.
And so five or so years later, I guess, I don't know the exact time. I think I was around eight. We moved to the house that I grew up in and my mom lived in that house until she died in 2017. And We had the next cross the street neighbor. Her name was Mary and she, and I would ride our bikes everywhere.
And one of our favorite things to do was to ride over to the liquor store, which was really the first mini markets, right? We called it the liquor store, but it was, and it had this wall of candy. I mean, just amazing amounts of candy. And so Mary and I would ride our bikes over there and we get candy for whatever we had.
And the guy who ran it. His name was Bill Doherty and he was a former Long Beach police detective and he'd written a book and I just had the biggest crush on him and wanted to be a detective and so we would have, you know, what I considered long conversations. Over our candy purchases. So in those days, the local liquor store was also your ATM.
And so my dad was going on a business trip and he, it was like a Sunday night or something, and he went to the liquor store and whatever time, early sixties, he wanted to cash a check for 50, which was a big deal. And so, you know, Bill's given him the up and down and why is your address? A mile down the road, you know, why aren't you going to your other local store?
And my dad's explaining to him and, and he said, you, you know, you probably know members of my family. My daughter comes in here all the time for. She loves your candy selection and he looks at my dad and he goes you're Maggie Larkin's father And my dad says yeah, and he's like how much you need So my dad used to tell that story and what he said was, you know, I was writing checks on my eight year old daughter's reputation and he knew then that I would have influence beyond my authority for most of my life.
That's a power to have. Yeah. And that's a pretty powerful way to have my dad think about me, right? Huge. Yeah, huge. You know, it kind of had us, Go head to head from time to time, but it was also great to have him in my corner and have him believe that I had influence beyond my authority. So that's kind of how I look at it, right?
Is that I am lucky enough to have people who do really big, complex jobs. Trust me. Be part of their inner circle and part of their advisory council, if you will. And you know, I guess I would tell my eight year old self, one, your dad was right. And two is really honor that gift that privilege.
Well, that leads me to want to know how you define powerful. And ladies, and if those words put next to each other changes either of their definitions,
that's just really standing from your own self and your own authenticity. And a lot of stuff plays, not plays into it, but it goes into that, like, you know, being powerful means.
In my mind, being courageous, being adventurous, being not so much unafraid, but willing to try it. Yeah, so I love the word powerful, and I'm having sort of an appreciation for ladies. I'm, I'm, I'm getting there in my appreciation for that term. But I also think it's kind of one of those ones where you go, wait, wait a minute, ladies aren't supposed to be powerful.
That's powerful. So I guess I'm appreciating the sort of the juxtaposition of the interpretation of powerful ladies in the, in our society anyway, in our Western society. And one of my favorite books growing up was Island of the Blue Dolphins. Oh, yeah, which for people who don't know, it's the story of real or imagined of a native gal, young, young girl who gets stranded on an island in the Channel Islands and the actual, this is terrible, I can't think of the name of the tribe.
But the actual tribe really lived there. So this is the story, whether again, true or not of her, what she had to go through. And I just remember thinking, yeah, of course she would make it. And of course she would be friend. The animals of the island and, you know, and also provide herself nutrition and fish and hunt and, you know, learn all the things that she had to learn to survive by herself on an isolated island.
And I think that really shaped how I think about women. And what we're capable of and what we're, what we can aspire to do. It's just, there's nothing we can't do. And we get told a lot that we can't, or we shouldn't, or, you know, something along those lines. And it's just. As we say in the business, well, that's just a bunch of hoo ha
Truth yeah, it's why this all got started.
I couldn't believe I would call people and they'd be like i'm not powerful And i'm like what like no like i've called you i've knighted you like it's already been decided I didn't ask you to agree. That's So our committee has met and yes, you have
met the criteria
Exactly. Exactly But it's also like there's just so much negativity being talked about everywhere and happening at such extreme levels.
Yeah. And I do know that statistically, planet Earth is the most peaceful it has been. in centuries, but it doesn't. And also the safest it's been in centuries, but it doesn't feel. Yeah. Yes. But it doesn't feel that way because we actually see what's happening in other places that we never saw before.
Right. Live. So,
It's like this. We have to talk more about that. I mean, maybe not now, but sure. I want to know about that research and you know, all that, because that's really encouraging. I was talking with a guy, sorry to interrupt your story. It's like the worst it's ever been. And, and I said, really, is it, I don't know. I didn't have that information that you just said, but kind of instinctively, I was like, is it really? Or do we just know about more? Do we just have access to information that we haven't had access to? And it was like, Oh, no, worst it's ever been.
And I did kind of think, Oh, that is, that is what a
guy would say. Isn't it? Well, and even economically in the U S more people have access to things they've never had before. More people have a job than they've ever have had in like the unemployment rate is low. Okay. More people have education, more people have a car, more people, like, all, like, if we can go back a hundred years, what our life is now versus then, like, there's so much more access, food.
Like protection, but we don't, we don't like, we're not measuring it equally and we're only seeing what gets ratings talked about. And the same thing happened like in the, in the nineties, like the nineties were super safe compared to the seventies and eighties.
Yes. Yes.
And yet they had the after school specials and Dateline and all these shows that were freaking everyone out about what happened, especially between like after school when your parents got home because of the latchkey kid, like, generation that was still going on.
Kids were totally fine. They're like, they were safe. Like all the statistics were so low and yet the fear that parents still have about like letting a kid leave the house. Whereas. No one even asked my parents if they were home most like they didn't know my parents had not that they never knew they weren't paying attention to what all the kids were doing.
And even when I grew up, I didn't have cell phones. I would leave my bike. And I would check in, but I had no idea where I was at, what I was doing.
Right. And we're drinking out of the hose and we're eating whatever we can find. And
yeah. Yeah. So, so it's, it's like, it's crazy to think that we, all we see is negative and we think that, that the economy is bad.
And that's also too, like clients will get all spun out about, ah, like since COVID it's been recessions coming any day now and I'm like, okay, it's been four years. Billionaires keep getting richer. So what train do you want to get on? And so it's like, we, there is that component of like, we can create our own reality at any time.
Absolutely. If you want to go get clients, go get them, like go. And if he, everyone else is freaking out, good. Let him freak out at home. Go have fun. Go do the thing. Like, Oh, it's, it's really interesting to see the complete difference between statistics and the.
Yeah. You were taught also in that list was I'm looking up something on my phone.
Sorry to look away. Okay. One of my favorite quotes from the Talmud is we don't see things as we are. We see them as we are. Talmud, not Talmud. That's different. Although I'm sure there's a good quote in there too, but the Talmud, can you repeat that
quote
again? We don't, we don't see things as they are.
We see them as we are and we do, we get enrolled. We have a ban on CNN in our house because it's like the hype show. It's the, Oh my God, we're all going to die show. And I think that's true of a lot of media. And I think we really need to craft what we're. Curate what we're willing to look at and what we're willing to listen to and really listen to it from with a really discerning mind. There's a quote so the, the four agreements, you know, the foreign agreements be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. I'm looking at my board because I haven't written up on my office. Always do your best. And then the fifth one is be skeptical and listen for the truth.
And I just think that is so important in our environment right now in our world and our society is that we really have to be skeptical of things, not cynical, but skeptical and really listen for. Is that the truth or is that just some story somebody made up and not even you know with Maliciously, yeah maliciously with some bad motivation Just They just made it up, you know, it's just so important to really think for yourself and to not be persuaded by,
by information that you haven't really investigated. And I think we just, we tend to just hear something and run with it without going. Is that good? Does that really fit my experience? Is that really what? I think that person is up to or yeah, just does this look real to you? Yeah, really be willing to ask yourself that question.
David and I joke all the time, you know, I read it on the internet, so it has to be true. Come on now.
Well, speaking of David, before I let you go, I would love you to share a story that I just learned about how you and David started your relationship. Because when I heard this, it gave me hope. You don't need to leave your house to find your person.
So if you, where I'd love you to begin this story is like when you're talking to your friend asking for help.
So I was working with a guy, his name is Tom, Tom Lukes. He's an amazing man. And we were, we had just finished a program and it was really successful and people were, you know, singing our praises.
We went out for dinner after the session, the last session, and he was in a relationship with somebody that he's just known for a really long time, very happy about it. And he's like, okay, what's going on here? Why are you not in a relationship? And I was like, I don't know. And he's like, do you, so I get to cuss, right?
He's like, do you just turn into a raving bitch when you're in relationship? What is, what's the deal? He's like, you're smart. You're attractive. You know, you make good money. You like to have fun. I don't get it. What's the deal? And I was like, I don't know. I, I had been divorced probably for 10 years at this time.
And I said, I don't know. Do you want to be my coach? And he said, sure. I'll be your coach. And I kind of was a little bit annoyed at him. Like, you know, stop bothering me about this. And so I said, okay, coach, what's your first, you know, what's my first move? And he's like, do what you love and he'll show up.
And I was like, you mean. lie on my couch and play words with friends. It's like, you know, so he's a really outdoorsy guy and hiker and you know, it's just really, really sailor and everything. Sits in the snow to meditate every morning. Like literally he lives in Colorado and sits in snow to meditate.
So he was a gas that I would say lay on my couch and play words with friends. Well, about a week later David, who I've known for over 30 years and who I had a crush on, but at the time he was married and I was married contacts me on words with friends. Like, you know, that little chat thing that I don't play words with friends anymore.
I'm not even sure it's around, but the little chat thing, he's like, Hey, how you doing voice from the past. So we started communicating and we, you know, played words with friends. We talked in the chat and he was in Southern California. I was in Portland at the time. And he said, well, next, maybe I said next time I'm down there, cause I visit my mom there a lot, we should have a drink.
So we got together and you know, at first it was kind of awkward. We'd known each other really long time, but our lives had gone different ways. And he was out of a divorce and his father had just passed away and my mom was really sick and it was weird, but we just kind of kept at it and kept going.
No, he was like, you don't want to be in a relationship with me. I am moody. I'm selfish. I'm like, well, I'm not moody, but I'm selfish and we might be able to make this work. And we started dating in our first official date was in April of 2015. And we got married in 2018 and we are living happily ever after.
I love it. I just, you know, because everyone says like so many people are at home right now working from home. You're exhausted. You're staying home. You're like Netflix and chilling by yourself like it's not. And so the idea that you can be on your couch. And meet your person. It's just really refreshing because usually the answer is you have to go outside, which I do think most people need to leave your house no matter what.
But it's nice to know that you didn't have to force anything and you were just being you and he showed up. And I tried forcing it. So I was on what was that one? It wasn't match. But it was one where they did all these e harmony E harmony. Yeah so i've and it's Annoying to fill out. I remember I was sitting on my couch watching the super bowl after being somewhere Canada or england or something and I was exhausted and i'm filling this out and i'm just getting more and more annoyed with this all these questions I have to answer and It the last question is, you know, what's the range and I was like, I don't know 50 miles Sure So I did put in 50 miles and up, up, up, up, up.
No matches. Do you want to expand your, so I go, sure. Incrementally. Right. And then I'm the whole United States and then I'm like North America and no matches. And I'm like, frigging is galaxy. One of the options. Yeah. So that whole thing didn't work for me, but just, you know, really kind of relaxing and doing.
Something that, you know, my life isn't about words with friends. Of course not. I, I see you out doing things more than not. So when anyone listening to have the illusion that you are hanging out on your couch by yourself these days, yeah. But if you, I think if you are just, you know, kind of willing and ready and, and.
Not worrying about it because whenever I was worrying about it Nothing, well things would show up, but they would quickly reveal that things people would show up, but they Quickly reveal themselves as not a good fit. Yeah. So yeah, it is kind of a cute story. I love it Well for everybody who wants to work with you hire you Hang out with you play words with friends with you in a non romantic way Where can they find you follow you and support you?
I am not very available on social media, but I am on LinkedIn. Maggie Larkin Hickok. My company is Maggie Larkin Consulting. You could certainly find me there. You could also email me at Maggie at Maggie Larkin Consulting. I mean, at, what is my, mlconsulting at gmail. com. That's what it is.
Yeah, you can find me there. And you know, it's mostly it's word of mouth. So if somebody can't find me on the two things I just said, please ask Kara because she knows how to find me.
Yes, I do.
Yes.
Well, thank you so much for being a yes to the Powerful Ladies Podcast and sharing your wisdom with everyone today.
So I appreciate the invitation very much.
Of course. It's such a treat to have you in my life and to Get your wisdom on a regular basis so yeah, so thank you and I look forward to getting to see you and hang out with you soon
I hope it's
very soon
Thanks
All the links to connect with Maggie are in our show notes at thepowerfulladies. com. Please subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening and leave us a rating and review. Join us on Instagram at Powerful Ladies or at Kara underscore Duffy, and you can also find me at Karaduffy. com. I'll be back next week with a brand new episode.
Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Instagram: @magglark
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Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
