Episode 37: Grief, Grit, and Laughing Anyway | Courtney Oroszko on Love, Loss, and Resilience
Courtney Oroszko is proof that strength and humor can carry you through the unimaginable. A lawyer, mother of two, and one of Kara’s closest friends, Courtney has faced the loss of her husband to stage 4 esophageal cancer, the sudden death of her mother, and the passing of dear friends . Yet she continues to show up for her kids, her career, and her community with courage, wit, and an open heart. She shares how she rebuilt life in the wake of tragedy, why letting people in matters, and the joy she finds in honoring her husband’s memory every day. Expect raw honesty, moments of laughter through tears, and lessons in resilience you won’t forget.
“One of the things that Pat said in the message that I have memorized is, ‘I know this is a tough hand to get dealt, but being as tough as you are and as strong as you are, you’re going to be able to get through this.’ And I think that’s such an important lesson.”
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Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 Meet Courtney Oroszko
04:12 From prosecutor to clerk magistrate
11:45 Navigating loss and grief with humor
20:30 Remembering Pat: life, love, and legacy
33:18 Parenting after loss
41:55 The power of community and asking for help
55:10 Finding joy in small, everyday moments
1:04:47 Annual traditions to keep memories alive
1:15:20 Lessons on strength, love, and resilience
one of the things that Pat had said, that this is a tough, in the message that, I have obviously memorized, but one thing he said was, I know this is a tough hand to get dealt, but being as tough as you are is as strong as you are. You're gonna be able to get through this.
And I just think that's such an important lesson.
That's Courtney Oroszko and this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans, the awesome, the up to something, and the extraordinary to come and share their story. I hope that you'll be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Courtney or Roscoe is one of my favorite humans. We're friends from college and she is one of the strongest, funniest, most wise ass friends I know, and I love her for it. She's a lawyer, a mother of two, and became a widow when her husband and my good friend passed away from stage four esophageal cancer a few days before their anniversary and their son's first birthday.
On this episode, she tells her story. We talk about the good, the tragic, and the humor in life. We talk about how she continues to move forward in the wake of multiple tragedies, and why laughing at the dark comedies in life is often the best way to both grieve and heal. Be prepared to cry because you're laughing and because you're moved by this incredible story.
Hello, Courtney. Hi, Kara. I am so excited that you are on the podcast today. I am too. I'm nervous, but I'm excited. For all of you listening, Courtney is one of my favorite humans on the planet. We have been friends since college, and she is one of the funniest people I've ever met. And I'm going to right now make a shout out to any of the comedy podcasts that Jordan works on.
I highly encourage you to invite Courtney to be on your podcast because you do not know. That is
a lot of pressure, Kara. A lot of pressure. You
don't need to be funny on this podcast, but I'm just letting people know that if they give you dialogue and conversation, whatever comes outta your mouth is gonna be honest and raw and always a little bit of self-deprecation, and there's always humor, and I really appreciate that.
No matter what life throws at you, you are able to see the ridiculousness in it and share it with everybody.
Think maybe I'll use that as my new Tinder profile. That, that quote
sexy and hilarious call me. Yeah.
Yes. I actually bet your Tinder profile would already be funny, but I would love to craft one with you that would be really enjoyable. I think we just used so Courtney's a mom of two awesome kids, and I have not repeated a story. Somebody told me so often until you sent that text to our girl text group about your daughter, Allie, telling everyone at school that when you flip somebody off, it means that you hate God.
I don't even know where that came from. We don't talk about God in our house. And one day God came up and she said to me, who's that? I don't know that guy. So I don't know where that came from. But yeah, evidently it means I hate God. So where and she only sees me giving the middle finger behind her back.
So I don't know why she would even see that, but
Yeah. Yep. That's, she must have caught you in the mirror one day. That's how do you probably, how do you handle that as a, mom to, when you get the phone call from the teacher oh yeah, your 6-year-old just told the whole class that you flip somebody off, it means you hate God.
Like, how do you start laughing right away? Do you cry a little bit?
I was very proud. But it had to be fair, it was my friend that told me that Allie did that to the class or to her friends at school. 'cause his daughter came home telling them about it. And I'm very intimidated by Ally's kindergarten teacher.
And so I did not raise that with her because.
She's like one of the smart, her kid's an astronaut, so I feel a lot of pressure for my kid to compete with hers, even though her son's 30. But I was scared to bring that up to Mrs. Cochlan, so I did not address that. I very passive aggressively just waited for other parents to call and thankfully no one did.
Amazing. And, but yeah. The second part of your text, which I've also been sharing, is that your son, how old is Ryan now? Ryan will be four next week. That's so insane to me. I know. So that he stopped you the other day and he said, mom, are you mad at me? And you're like, no. Why? Why does your face look like that then?
So the fact that your son like busted you on resting bitch face at four.
Yeah, that was not one of my proudest moments. And what I wanted to say was like, my face always looks like this, so I don't know why you're calling me out today. I was putting a lotion on him 'cause he had a rash.
So maybe he thought that's what caused it. But I don't know. 'cause there's multitude of times that my face looks like that, that he has not mentioned it. So I don't know what it was about that day. But I am not gonna try and fix it 'cause he is gonna have to get used to it because it's gonna happen a lot over the next however many years.
I maybe yeah. I think I might upgrade my request to the universe for you to be a podcast star. But maybe just make the three of you, have your own Netflix special. I,
it's just, it's very comical and I think. Going along. I think worse resting bitch face than the rash day was Mother's Day, which is already a difficult day for me for a multitude of reasons that I'm sure you'll end up touching on.
But Ryan calls me from the bathroom saying that he needs my help, which means that I need to wipe his ass. And one day I asked him when he's gonna stop making me do this, and he said when he was 16 or 17, so I clearly won't have to worry about him getting a girl pregnant. But so I go in and I'm already like irritated that I have to do this and there is shit everywhere.
It's like all over the toilet seat, all down his legs. I'm like, it's cake down. Like I don't know how this happened in a period of five minutes. So I'm scrubbing him down and just when I thought things could not get worse, he literally whips out his penis. Turns around to the toilet and starts peeing, and I am on my knees, like I level with it, and he's just peeing it doesn't, he does not even matter.
It's I'm not even there. And I was like, this is what Mother's Day is like. Happy Mother's Day. And so yeah, those are special treats that any YouTube family could, we're not like doing art projects together or singing kumbaya. I'm literally scraping poop off his legs and he's slamming his penis in toilet seats.
So that's what they can tune into.
The first thing that flashed into my head when you started telling that story is the last road race that Jesse ran. He was just about to go run and he's like, all right, let me run to the bathroom real quick. At the, they have porta-potties at all the like meetup stations.
And he goes in and there is literally shit everywhere. He's someone had explosive diarrhea and it went around like the entire porta potty. And so he's like, how does this physically happen? And so he just has to pee. So he is like trying to like climb onto the top of the porta-potty so he can at least like pee in the hole and not touch anything.
And as, as he's doing that and you know the pictures they show about don't stand, don't put your feet on the toilet seat and squat, like Yes. Telling people who like, who have like holes that they squat over don't stand on this the way you would like an Asian toilet. Those signs, they're like, don't stand on it.
Like it looks like someone's gonna dive into a swimming pool.
Yeah. Which is horrifying, right?
So he's basically in that position on a porta-potty and he's oh, this is how it happened. This is the only way that this could have happened. Somebody was standing on top of the toilet and this is the only way.
Yeah. Poop stories are never not funny.
It's just, yeah, I'm almost 40 and I still find humor in them. So
yeah, like I always put that in the checkbox as why I am not a lady because Oh,
definitely.
Yeah. And lately I've been getting scolded by Jessie about not knowing when it's appropriate to talk about things or not, or share things.
And it's not like I'm sharing my own experiences over dinner or something, but like when, why Is it ever a bad time to talk about something? I don't. That never occurs to me.
No, nor do I, which is why I find myself in trouble quite often.
That's, I appreciate that. We're just never growing up. I really value that.
No. When I left bartending, my bosses gave me like this big lecture and they're like, all right Courtney, you have a big girl job now. You can't fool around. You can't talk like this, like you need to grow up. I'm like, okay. And then I like went my first day as like a prosecutor. I'm, and I have just probably gotten worse and more inappropriate in my time since bartending and I've run into those bosses at the bar.
They're like, are you behaving? I'm like, no, I'm not. I've actually gotten worse 'cause I found a whole group of people that are just as screwed up as I am that can find humor in the most ridiculous thing.
I think that's a great segue to introduce yourself to everyone listening, who you are and what you're up to.
And we'll just start there.
Ooh. So as you mentioned, my name's Courtney. I am 38, almost 39 years old. I have two children, a daughter who's six and a half going on 25, and my son will be four next month. Allison and Ryan. I am a lawyer. I was a prosecutor with the Worcester DA's office in Massachusetts for about seven years.
I primarily did, worked in the sexual assault unit and did sexual assault crimes and child abuse crimes. And then I left that unit after some personal issues and then went to the gang unit and the felony unit. And then I got a new job as an assistant clerk magistrate in the Worcester Superior Court.
I've been there for almost two and a half years, and I'm actually, which Carrie doesn't even know about yet in the process of applying for a new job as a clerk magistrate. So I'm on the third round of that job application process now. So it's a little unknown, but I'm in a win-win situation 'cause I have a pretty unbelievable job right now.
So if I don't get it, I still have a great job. Great coworkers, and if I do get it, it's a pretty amazing experience. So that's where I, and I have a dog named Clark that I've waited about 20 years because my husband did not like dogs and did not want me to get one. So now I have one and he is named Clark because that's where my husband and I went to college.
That's where some of my best friends went to college.
That's where we went to college
and Correct. And so it just played a big part in my life for a really long time. So the dog's name is Clark
and he's adorable. So you, he is, you just listed out like 20 million things that make you the biggest boss lady on the planet.
So I just wanna go back a little bit and just even just focus on your career for a moment.
Sure.
I remember when you first started working in the, as a prosecutor, that you had a fancy badge. I
did have a fa fancy badge.
And that's because you were the assistant da, is that correct?
I was. Yep.
So when I hear assistant da, I instantly think of everyone that's ever been on law and order, who's been an assistant DA and how there's exactly such a boss.
And to me that sounds like the most fanciest way you can be a lawyer. So how did you decide to go that route and what made you wanna go to law school in the first place?
Law school was, I went back and forth between being a teacher or being a lawyer. I liked both ideas, but I think my mom pushed me more into law school 'cause she said I argued all the time and that would be a good use of my verbal skills.
I was really good growing up. I never did anything wrong, but my mouth somehow always got me into trouble. I was always just arguing or talking back or I wouldn't back down. So we thought that would be a better career path for me than molding the minds of the use of our future, which, so you're welcome to everyone that I'm not teaching your children.
So went to law school and I just always liked criminal work. I was a big fan of Law and Order and SBU. I just loved all those real life stories and I think it's cheesy, but I think it takes a kind of special person to be a prosecutor because you just see people at their worst. Terrible things happen to good people.
Terrible things happen to bad people. You need an ability to figure out the right thing to do. Sometimes there's not, prosecuting a case is not the right thing to do and sometimes it is. So I, got into that world and started off doing general crimes in the county courts and did that for about a year and a half.
Maybe, yeah, about a year and a half, a little bit more. But then I transferred to the Sexual Assault and Child Abuse Unit which was a promotion for me and something that I always wanted to do. I just, I loved kids. I loved working with families and I think people that hurt children physically or sexually are some of the worst people in the world.
I felt good about what I was doing at the end of the day and didn't, feel like a hypocrite. At the end of the day I just felt working in that sexual assault and child abuse unit was just a way for me to use my skills to do some good in a pretty, pretty shitty world. So just stayed there.
I didn't have any intention of leaving, but as Kara knows, my husband passed away and then it just became very difficult for me to see children whose fathers were doing horrible things to them. When my fa husband would've done anything. To have been there for his kids. I just made the choice to leave that unit 'cause I did not think I would do my job well.
Because I think I would be so focused on the fact that my children's father wasn't there and I don't think I would be treating the fathers the cases in front of me fairly. So I asked to leave the unit and then just did some other stuff in, within the office prosecuted different crimes
prior to Pat getting sick and passing away.
Was it hard for you to work in the sexual crimes unit in general? Like just to see what people were doing to kids? Did you take it home, especially being a mom yourself or like, how could, how did you separate what you were prosecuting from like the rest of your life?
It definitely co-mingled at times.
It was hard to work in it, but I was also not ignorant going in that this stuff was happening. Yeah. So by working in the unit, I was at least doing something to prevent it from happening or punishing those that made it happen. The ways that it, I brought it home, I just definitely became much more aware of the bad. And, I don't think Pat appreciated that portion of my job because I was crazy before the job started. And this definitely made me a little crazy in the fact that I said, my kids are never going to a sleepover and anyone that looked at him was gonna pull 'em off the streets.
And, but I think it educated me to help raise my children to be aware of these things happening and protecting themselves for it to happen. And I've used that to. Talk to my friends' kids or talk to my friends about smart choices for their children. And I've actually spoken at colleges about smart sexual choices and I've spoken to football teams about the dangers of sexual assault on campus and kind of the other side that people don't talk about how sometimes a false accusation could ruin your life or
having
sex with some drunk girl on a recruiting trip can be catastrophic. I definitely bring it home with me, but I use it not as a way to stay up at night thinking that my children are gonna get raped and murdered, but just as a way to educate them and educate myself and educate people around me as well.
Yep. And then after you left that you moved to the gang unit, you said.
Yes.
What was that like?
Different. Very different. It was a world that I know nothing about. I grew up in Connecticut in a very suburban town. I went to a Jewish private school for eight years and a private high school.
So there were not really many gangs that were part of my life growing up. There's no
Jewish Connecticut gang that you were a part of?
No. Maybe the Tiffany Mafia that we're wearing like dancing, like something like that. But we weren't like wearing like Adidas track pants and like shooting up the logo mini marts.
That sounds like a great Netflix show actually, right? Like the Jewish Tiffany Mafia. Like whipping out their like black Amex cards and spin like crazy.
Yep.
So it was just, it was a different world. It was crazy to see how, kids grew up in a, just a very different life than me.
And this is, I don't know, this sounds heartless at times, but I left the sexual assault unit 'cause it was just personally hard for me that these things were happening. But when there was a gang fight, I just wasn't as personally invested because you knew the lifestyle you were getting yourself into.
Obviously if there was a drive-by shooting or some just random person got in the mix, that was a different story. But if there's two gang members fighting with each other and they pressed charges, I wasn't as personally invested because you joined a gang. You went through the initiation, you did all this stuff.
You knew what you were getting yourself into. It's sad sometimes. They're so lifestyle. They grew up and the father figures that they had led them into this life. But but it was definitely a, it was just an education for me. It was a world that I had never seen before.
I'm surprised that gang members pressed charges against each other in the court of law.
It's not so much them starting the police officerss are really the ones that initiate it. Okay. But sometimes, they're just forced to participate and, or they talked and then, but then there's like retaliations where someone will shoot one gang member and then that gang will then go retaliate and shoot someone from the other gang.
And it's just a, just a vicious circle of this stuff.
How big is the gang issue in Worcester, Massachusetts?
It's actually larger than you would think. There's a multitude of different gangs, different levels. Some are more powerful than others. My favorite gang name is MOB, which is Money Over Bitches, which I found very creative.
Yes. But the gang, the jails overrun with gangs. It's crazy. They come into the courthouse and they need to be classified if they're gang members or not, because they keep them away from rival gangs and. There's definitely a lot. There was a, there's a Kilby Street gang.
It was actually right by Clark. We, where we went to school and I didn't even know that existed. Like it's just this whole world. So I still remember when we started at Clark, and I don't know if you remember this or not, if you were there, that we were in the auditorium for orientation and there was a police officer on stage like talking to us about campus safety and all this stuff.
And he says that we should never go to the store 24 on Main Street at night and especially not alone. And he said, I wouldn't say they're gangs, but it's groups of friends warring with each other, which looking back what they were gangs and I don't know what like he was trying to trick us into, but they were just all around suddenly some West side
story at store 24.
Seriously. Like I was just like naive from naked. I'm like, Ew. Like they're not gangs, thank God. 'cause I wouldn't wanna be near gangs, but they were literally all around and I didn't. Did not know it
well. I look back at my own behavior and our collective behavior. We were in school and the carelessness with which we conducted ourselves in the evening, like the first week I was ever on campus.
I was there early for field hockey preseason and there was a shooting at store 24 that I heard like my second or third night there. And it was my first time ever hearing gunshots and I remember calling my mom being like I don't know who else to call. I know that the campus police are already running there 'cause they ran past my window, but I just heard gunshots.
So that was like, three days into college. Yeah. But we used to go to store 24 all the time. Like all the time. Oh my God. All the time. And we walked home from bars and across campus and Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. And I would often walk by myself because I was over wherever we were and I was like, I'm just going home.
I'll be fine. I could run. Yeah.
I looked at back at that a lot too. But then on the flip side, what was crazy is we would do that and we'd be fine. And my friend went to Ithaca, which was like in the middle of nowhere, and one of her friends got like violently raped the first week. What? And I don't really remember much of that happening when we were in school.
No. So I think we were in like this little bubble and we made some stupid choices, but I think they began, didn't really care about the Clark kids, they had their own problems to deal with outside of the walls of campus.
Yeah, for sure. How, who for the friend that was attacked, was it a local person, like from the city or someone from the university?
To
be honest, I don't even remember. It was a long time ago, but from my experience in the sexual assault unit, I would think for the most part it probably was someone that knew her. Because stranger danger I learned is not as prevalent as like our parents taught us growing up, which is definitely scary that more times than not, people that commit these crimes, especially sexual assaults, are people that know you and not some stranger in a white van that's pulling up on the side of the street.
Let's even, that obviously happens too, but
Yeah. It's way, it gets a lot more pressed, but it's way less common. Correct. That's like even the number, the most dangerous person in a woman's life is her husband or partner. Yeah. That's the person you need to be the most afraid of. So everyone that's which is horrifying.
What's that? Sorry? Which is
horrifying.
It's horrifying. It's but again, like it speaks to the statistics that no one talks about, like talk about fake news. There's an amazing John, there's a comedian on Netflix who looks like he's always from like the 1960s, John Mullaney.
And so he has this hilarious, I don't know if you've watched his Netflix specials, Courtney. I don't think so. Okay. Everyone listening, go watch John LAN's Netflix specials. His most recent one has this hilarious bit about the DARE Program and Stranger Danger and the police teaching it at school. And he's like joking about the ridiculousness of teaching like seven year olds self-defense in like when in the event an adult that's 10 times bigger than you tries to kidnap you, here are some things you can do.
And he's what were they thinking? We're gonna remember to like, poke him in the eye and kick him in the shin. And I guess most kids like would just go rabbit on somebody if they felt threatened. But it's like the, there's there's so many other steps to teach you before you even get yourself in that situation to avoid the whole situation.
But instead they focused on when you're in this situation. And it's just, it's so funny, like it makes me cry laughing every time. So watch it and report back. It might be a great thing for you to watch today, in fact. So okay, so you go through the gang unit and then what made you go from the gang unit to what you're doing now?
It was a much better opportunity. It was very hard for me to leave the DA's office. I loved it there. I loved what I was doing. I loved the people I worked with, and my life changed completely in multitude of ways during my years in the DA's office. So they really became a family to me. So it was difficult to even think about leaving. One reason was definitely financial. As amazing as the DA office was, there's, they have a limited budget and the salaries were not great. And when I left I was raising two kids of my own. And especially, less so having been outta the sexual assault unit, when you have trials to work on and victims to meet with, sometimes hours go late and weekends are spent working and phone calls come in at all hours of the night.
And I was doing, I had a murder trial not too long before I left the office, and that just wasn't as conducive to being a single parent. So this gave me set hours. I was working eight 30, I'm gonna be, I'm working eight 30 to four 30. I know exactly what my days are. I know at the end of the day, I don't bring work home with me.
I'm not gonna be on the phone for work. I still get phone calls once in a while from police officers just asking a question or throwing something by me, but. I'm not spending two hours on the phone walking someone through an investigation and I can focus on the kids. But it was still being in that world.
I'm still in Worcester. I'm still, I still see a lot of my friends in the DA's office throughout, throughout the day. I'm still in a courtroom, but the stress level is one eighth of what it was before. As hard as it was to leave these people that knew all these things about me and had seen me at my best and my worst it just was better for my life circumstances at that time and quality of life for me and my kids.
Yeah. Which are all really important things to be deciding for everyone looking at what's next in their career. Definitely. I imagine there it was, in addition to having, your colleagues be your family, I imagine it just must have been hard to like. Temporarily at least put aside being a prosecutor and like that, that had been your focus up to that point to earn that role and then to decide either it's not right for me right now, or, I'm okay to walk away from that.
Yeah, it was definitely different and there had just been a lot of changes in my life and this was another big change, but this was a job that I had applied for before Pat passed away because it is just such a great job. It's a big step up and, so it's, it was something that I had tried to get before and I didn't, and it was, no, it's scary to start new things and go into unknown territory.
But at the end of the day I knew if I didn't get it, I still had a job I loved and if I did it was going to, just give me. Just, like I said, a better quality of life for me and the kids.
What is what are your responsibilities include now?
So now I'm a go-between, between the judges and the lawyers.
I kinda keep control of the courtroom, the schedule setting cases up for trial. I'm assigned to a trial session of the criminal court. So if things get sent out of the main session for trials or motions, I'm the clerk in the room for that. I swear witnesses in, I maintain exhibits exhibit list.
I get the judge things they want. I kind of assist bringing lawyers to judges for search warrants. I'm in the superior court, so my responsibilities are a little different if I, than if I had the same job in the district court. In the district court there's much more like managed magisterial stuff to do.
But for the job I'm in now, I just the big thing is I'm a go between the lawyers and the judges and just maintain the court schedule, the courtrooms and, just facilitate all of that. Yeah. The hard job to explain the kids think I put bad guys in jail.
Technically I still do not as much or as directly as I did as a prosecutor, but I do the paperwork that sends him to jail, so we just kinda leave it at that for now.
I recently was called in for jury duty for the first time ever and being a lawyer or gonna law school has always been on my list of things I would be interested in doing and so I was super excited to go to jury duty, I think the only person on the planet and I was so excited to go and then I got selected and I was just so excited about that.
I forgot that I am self-employed and that Yep. Being gone for two weeks at a trial might make my life really complicated. And there are still people who I have not, I'm out of communication with. And that happened in April. That's, it completely threw off my whole life for two weeks where I've not, yeah.
I'm like 80% caught up with what happened during that time period. So I'll get there. But it was so fun and yeah, I, the biggest takeaway for me being on the jury is that I was so impressed with all of the staff and the judge that was there. He was so good at explaining everything to the jurors. I was so impressed with the jurors that we had, like the level of responsibility and justice and equality and doing the right thing and logic that everybody brought to the table.
I was like, I wish that this, these were the types of people I was spending my time with outside of the jury room. Yeah. Like it really made me feel better about our community and. The American justice system and we all talked about it because we were all surprised about that. So it was, for me, it was a really cool experience and I did not envy the clerk that was in the room because she was multitasking all the time.
All the time, yeah. And I never expected to see the judge. And besides the court reporter, no one's really listening to the lawyers. Like in TV shows, they make it look like everyone's really paying attention to every word the lawyer says. And yeah, the judge told us, he's I'm not gonna listen because I don't need to, I have to do all these other, I have to read warrants, I have to do other stuff.
He is I don't need to be here, you guys. Do you guys decide if he's guilty or not? So I do the work after you're done. So yeah, I'm gonna be here. I might be paying attention. I might ask him to stop and have the court reporter tell me what just happened if something comes up weird. And he had the real time court reporting technology.
Yep. So I, that was what surprised me the most, that he's sitting in the room, but he's not really paying attention.
Yeah. I don't think I've ever heard a judge say that before. So that would, that actually surprises me a little bit. 'Cause the judges that I've worked with, 'cause I've also, as a prosecutor, I met with the judges after trial to ask for feedback and areas that I can improve upon. So they were able to tell me.
Quite a bit about the case. They don't have to make they're not the ones making the decisions, but my experience is very different from that judge is that the judges do pay attention. The clerks really don't have to.
Yeah.
But the judges, I feel do and was it a criminal case or a civil case
criminal?
And I feel like I should give this judge credit. He was fully aware of what was going on. 'cause he had obviously been part of all the pretrial stuff. He had all the notes that were happening. His, the point he just made was that, don't be alarmed if I'm like doing other work while this is happening because, in the moment in the trial, he can always ask to see what the court reporter wrote down to make a decision.
Yeah, definitely. But I just assumed everyone would be sitting there like chin on, on hands, like listening to every word. And it was not that at all. Yeah. I felt the pressure of being a juror to you gotta listen shit.
Yep. You guys are the important ones in that case.
Yeah. Yep. I think a lot of people who started listening to your share earlier wanna go back to what happened besides your career in your life.
Obviously you're a complete powerful lady in your job and you're always have worked hard and you've always been focused. But your story is also 10 times more complex than that. Like every powerful ladies is yours is just really unique in, what challenges life has brought you.
So where would you like to start in regards to the challenges that life has brought you? I, huh I think the cha, I mean I think obviously everyone has challenges in their lives that make them different and make their lives their own. But I think, makes me a little bit unique is at the age that I am, the amount of loss.
And tragedy that has happened in my life. My therapist is consistently amazed at how much there has been with someone my age. So I think the biggest one, the biggest that started all of this lately would be my mother passed away very unexpectedly six months after my wedding and on Christmas morning, which is ironic.
Though I'm Jewish, so everyone says it shouldn't bother me as much. Which
is so silly because it's not like it's, I don't know. Yeah,
it's one of her friends did say that my mother was so special that she needed a holiday that everyone would be, that many people would be celebrating to be celebrating her, which I thought was very accurate.
That was the first. But on that point, I think that it ties into. The dark irony that it wouldn't, there wouldn't be as much dark irony for you to joke about if it happened on any other day. Exactly. Knowing what a wise as you are and the people that you like to surround yourself with it doesn't surprise me that your mother's she's negotiating with God.
Should we wait a few more hours? Nah, today.
No.
Let's just do Christmas. Yeah. Let's make it a fun day. Yeah.
Yep. Yep. That was a fun treat. Thanks mom. Appreciate that. Did you ever fig
did you guys do an autopsy and did you figure out what the cause of death was?
We did an autopsy because it was, she was, she, so she had surgery on her wrist. My mother was just as clumsy as I was and she had. Fallen and broken her wrist and then fell again and rebroke it and ended up getting these metal bars in her wrist that ended up causing quite a bit of pain. So she was gonna have this, she had this surgery that was supposed to, I can't remember if it was supposed to give her mobility or take away the pain.
I think it was taking away the pain. So she went in for surgery on a Thursday, and I talked to her, I think I texted with her a little bit on Thursday, afterwards Friday. I remember talking to her a little bit. She was just just had a ton of pain medication. And I remember the last thing I said to her was that I loved her more than I loved Pat, which was my husband.
And then I think she said she knew that I didn't talk to her on Saturday and which was Christmas Eve. And then Sunday morning I got a phone call from my brother who was just very upset and said, dad had called crying and said he had to come to the house. My family at this point all lived in Kansas and I was in Massachusetts, so we're like freaking out on the phone.
We thought something happened to the dog or we couldn't really understand what was happening. So my brother said he was close, so he didn't wanna be on the phone when he got there. So he hung up and was supposed to call me back and he didn't. So I called and my dad answered and just said she's gone. And she was, oh God, 55 I think somewhere around.
I'm terrible with math, which is another reason I went to law school and that didn't become a teacher. So Shannon, she was around 55. She was young, so we did do an auto, we did do an autopsy and it came back. They said she had an enlarged heart but didn't list that as a cause of death.
But we just thought that was ironic 'cause she was really one of the best people I knew, and they just said it was natural causes, which was just insane because she was, like I said, like 55. We thought it could have been a blood clot from the surgery or like an accidental overdose from the pain meds she was on.
But my dad actually found the pain meds that he had given her in the middle of the night was still on her nightside stand. She had never taken them. Her brother had passed away from an aneurysm, and two of my aunts had aneurysms. So they, we thought maybe it was that, but just, but it was really nothing.
They just said it was natural causes, but she had an enlarged heart. So that was the answer it, so it came from That's so frustrating. Yeah. Because natural
causes is like the BS thing. You check when you don't know.
Yeah. Or when you're like 98 years old and you're just like your tank has emptied.
My mom. My mom had a lot of life left, so at the same time, she, died with blonde hair, which is what she always wanted. And she wasn't old. And so I think she just selfishly was like, you know what, I look good, so I'm gonna piece on out now. So she didn't have to worry about anything else.
Yeah, it was, to this day it's still, frustrat frustrates me. It's scary because I don't want that to happen to me. But yeah, like we never really got an answer at all, an answer that made sense or satisfied any of us.
And it's hard, right? Because you never know if any answer would be good enough or would be satisfactory.
But at least something more concrete would give you something to. Have
Yeah. To understand if it was an mannerism or a blood clot, I'd still be, I'd be just as sad. I'd be just as heartbroken. I'd be just as mad. But I would at least understand that's what did it, this it's been what almost it'll be, oh God.
See, I'm so bad at math. This is so embarrassing. I think about eight year, eight years. This year. And, I don't, I still don't feel, I don't understand it any better. At all. Not the fact that it happened because, no one could ever explain to me why she had to die that young.
But no if it was something like that it would be a little bit a little bit easier to swallow. But it's what it is. And
besides the grief and the, expected impact to you, how did it make you change how you were approaching your own life when that happened?
Probably not as, to be honest, probably not as much as I.
Which I did. Though it did, pat and I had gotten married six months before, almost six months before, no, I'm sorry, a little over six months before we got married June 11th, and we were gonna wait at least a year to have to try to have a baby. But that did, it did change that, which I guess with the way everything else has turned out was, a good thing.
And so it, that did change that trajectory of my life, that I was gonna wait longer to have children. But the fact that I lost her so suddenly and so unexpectedly it made us decide not to wait and to have a child earlier. Because we, we realized that life is short.
As
we've learned over and over again.
So I think that was the big way it changed my life just because I didn't wanna miss out on anything else because my mom missed out on me. Having a baby which to this day still breaks my heart. So I think that in, in other ways, I wish it changed my life, but in that it did in the sense that we just decided to have a baby a lot sooner than we did than we had originally planned on. Especially 'cause they told us it would take about a year at least for me to get pregnant because of having been on birth control for so long. But surprisingly, Allison decided to get me knocked up a lot sooner than a year. Everything happened much quicker than we anticipated.
And I think we had tried for a month or two months and we were pregnant.
Yep. She was ready.
She was, she a lot of people say, and I didn't want a girl. I probably shouldn't be saying this because if she ever listens to this podcast, she'll be devastated. But Ali really glad you're a girl now.
But it was very hard for me to think about having the mother-daughter relationship because I was so close to my mother and. It was very fresh that she had died and I cried finding out it was a girl. I was just it was so hard for me, but a lot of my friends told me that this was just my mom, started doing this for me and giving me a girl because of how special the relationship was between her and I.
And I think looking back I think they're right and she is, she, my mother would just adore her and she's sarcastic and she's funny and she's smart and she's everything you want your daughter to be. Yeah. Which, I hope I was everything my mom, for the most part wanted, her daughter to be.
So I do think my mother had a very big part in Allison. And as much as I didn't want a girl, then I couldn't imagine not having a girl now and. I look forward to having the relationship. Most of the relationship that my mother and I had with with Allison. I don't want, I don't want all of it, there's definitely some things I'll try and improve upon, and I probably don't, I called my mother 18 times a day, so I hope that Allison does not do that to me and I teacher Sure she doesn't have to.
But looking back, I definitely think my mother had a big part of that.
Yeah. And then
so yeah.
And then how many years after Allison was born did Pat get diagnosed with cancer?
Let me think. So Allie was born in January of 2013, and then Ryan was born in June 25th, 2015. And Pat got diagnosed.
November of 2015.
Yeah so I'm just making you do more math to be a butthead, but seriously, Carol, it's
really embarrassing. Like you told everyone how funny I was and I'm like crying and we're talking about like gang members and child rape and my mom dying and I can't do math, so I'm not, I'm stupid and not funny.
So this is really backfired. So if we could have Jordan just edit out all of this, I would appreciate it. Yes.
I'll take it all out. I'll take it all out.
The only thing, so I'm gonna actually, I'm literally using my fingers right now. So January 13 to 14, 14 to 15. So she was almost three when Pat got diagnosed
and Ryan was like six months.
Four. Four months, four months.
Five. Yeah.
See I can't do math either. It's okay.
He was born the 25th of June and he got, PAC got diagnosed November 4th and of
the
same.
And what type of cancer did Pat have?
Pat had esophageal cancer. He was diagnosed with stage four esophageal cancer.
So Pat at the time was 33 when he was diagnosed?
Yes. Yeah. So he's 33 and goes from being healthy to stage four cancer.
Yeah. So we, he had symptoms. He remembers the symptoms starting in the beginning of October. I was we were at a wedding for my friend Kasha, who I'm sure we'll talk about again. And he told me when we were talking about when the symptoms started, he remembered having problems swallowing men.
And he's don't you remember? That's why I wasn't eating that much. I thought he was just trying to get drunk and didn't wanna like waste his cat like space on food. So I didn't really think anything of it. And then he progressively got to the point where he was having difficulty swallowing and it was I know I've had this where I eat food so fast that I feel like the food got stuck.
And I would throw up and that's what was happening to him. And it had happened for a couple of weeks and I'd make dinner, he'd throw it up. And being the kind supportive wife that I am, I told him if he didn't get his shit together and go to a doctor, I wasn't cooking dinner anymore because I was bullshit that he was wasting my time and money by throwing up dinner every night.
So he went to, and he was having some back pain, but again, it was only for two weeks. And he went to the doctor and had gotten they did a swallow test with some charcoal on an x-ray and saw some sort of blockage. And had done some other tests and he was like losing weight pretty quickly.
Which I was actually jealous of. And then he went and got an endoscopy and I needed to pick him up. So they were putting a tube down his throat to take a look around with a camera. And he, I had to come pick him up and I'm in the waiting room and they call me into the office or into where he was.
And we're just talking and side note, this is just how ironic life is. Pat had a vasectomy and had to go back to get it retested because things didn't work for the first time and he was still sterile. And we were done having kids. We had a son and a daughter and we're in the doctor's office and packet the phone call and they tell him that it turned out that he was sterile.
And we literally like high fived and like sweet we're not gonna have any more kids. And then the door opens and they asked us to come down the hall. I immediately knew something was wrong because they wouldn't have brought us down the hall to be like, all right, have a nice day. So we go into the room and this doctor tells us that Pat had mod severe, moderate to severe acid reflux that caused an ulceration in his esophagus, which led to cancer.
And I just remember like sobbing. And Pat said he knew that something was really wrong when I was crying and the doctor wasn't telling me it was gonna be okay.
Yeah.
I just, and I remember saying we have a baby. We just had a baby. He's four months old. What, what is happening? And so the doctor just explained it to us and just said he thinks that we caught it early.
Actually no, I don't even think he was the doctor that said that. I just remember him telling us that he had cancer. So he just said that he was gonna give us, some places to call and he was gonna have some more testing done. But that it was cancer and he, he was there if we needed him and we just sat there and we were in shock and we went home and I'm just crying and packed and I was just at a loss and I asked if he wanted me to stay home at work and he didn't.
And he wanted me to go back to work. So I did. And I went right to my friend Melissa, who had just gotten through breast cancer and said I needed to talk to her. And he went into my office and I told her Pat had cancer. And that just started the next seven months of our life.
Yeah. And so the part that still shocks me is.
How fast it all happens. Not just the, went from diagnosis to when he passed, but just the fact that it went from zero to stage four and then it went from symptoms for two weeks to a diagnosis like that.
Yeah. The doc, this is a cancer, I guess that is pretty as Asmatic asymptomatic, excuse me.
And it's very rare in someone past age, he didn't smoke. He was healthy, the doctors were shocked. And we didn't realize how bad it was for a while. We had an, my insurance wasn't, Dana-Farber wasn't covered under my insurance. But it would be if I went to another doctor that was covered first, they had a special program.
So we went to a hospital and met with the doctor who. I've spoken a number of times to like large groups about my experience with Dana-Farber and about Pat. And I will never forget the doctor walking in and Pat is 33 years old in a cancer center and says, so what's up? And I was like, what the fuck do you think is up?
We're at a cancer center, we're not at a walk-in medical department. And told us that we caught it early. We'd be celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary together. Went through the whole procedure of what we were gonna do, and then that was it. And we walked out of there like feeling great. And Pat really, we hadn't told anyone really.
We hadn't told any of his friends or his extended family. And that night he sent an email to his family and told 'em that he had cancer and that it was a good prognosis and things would be good. And he told, I don't even think you know this, Kara, he told our friends, his closest guy friends on the fantasy sports message board.
No,
and it was during football season and he gets on the Fantasy Sport board and it is, I'm trying to think of who's in the league. It was Sean Fleming, his brother, Chris Pat's brother, Chris Mark Stakowski, Rob RA's brother, Dan Ting, John Weiner, and I think Adam Tway aunt, aunt's brother. I'm missing.
And Courtney's listing all the guys that we went to college with basically.
Yeah. So it's like all our friends. So he gets on the message board like, Hey guys, a couple of things. I have cancer but good news is Coach Phillips is not yelling at me as much anymore and I'm on the fast, I'm on the fast track to a medicinal marijuana card.
So that was literally how he tells his best friends that he has cancer. And we were like, we got this. Things are like, we'll be fine. But
none of this surprises me, by the way. Like I'm not surprised by any of this.
Yeah. There, there's something. And to
think I married one of 'em. I have to say he was the best of the bunch.
W when we went, he, yeah. We all adore Pat. Besides him being like super smart and like my favorite dancer of all time, like there's so many great things about him. I've never known someone my age to have so many Cosby sweaters and, yeah.
Yeah. It was really his wardrobe really, I think really really was one for the ages.
But I think what, and he loved a robe. I've never seen a man love a robe as much as Pat did.
Yeah. And
I'm the one that introduced him to a robe for our Christmas card. And also a somewhat unknown fact he was cremated. And in the ca casket at the funeral home for the wake, all he was wearing was a white t-shirt and a robe, no underwear.
And I had him in slippers. So that's what, there were a couple people that came up to me at the wake and were like, so hysterical. And it just, I felt bad. Like I'm trying to console them. And a couple times I whispered like Pat wasn't wearing any pants, so I wanted He's dial ducking
at his own funeral.
Correct. He wanted to be com He was, he loved being comfortable. He'd come home, he wanted to wear a tie every day to work, even though it wasn't needed. But he would come home, slip into some like Adidas warmup pants and like some Adidas slides and throw in a robe. So I figured what better way for him to head on out than in a robe and slippers.
He his wardrobe left something to be desired.
Well done, Courtney. Well done. Yep. But what I was gonna say is when we were at the hi Pat's memorial, I hadn't seen a all of those guys in a long time. And we always, any guy that, from like ages 18 to 22, you probably have more ridiculous things to talk of them about than their, virtues and their honor, right?
As men because you're seeing like we're all seeing each other, figuring out what it means to be adult and messing up all the time and we're all being idiots. And to see these guys and who they had become and how they handled that situation and how they stepped up, like I have never been more proud of my friends than seeing how they handled.
Pat going through cancer passing away and how they have since stepped up to be so part of you and the kids and making sure things are okay. And of course there's lots of women involved in that too, but I really wanna give the guys a shout out because
yeah, I think that's an outstanding point and, important to Pat for them to be a part of our lives.
And it's a huge, it's so important to me because they know things about Pat that I, I'll never know and had experiences with Pat that I didn't. And these are the kind of guys that I want my kids to grow up around. And, some have stepped up even more than others. Anthony comes over every week still with his girlfriend and hangs out with the kids.
He's taken the kids for him. He's babysat for me. John Gudy and Adam Pauletta and they, all the guys have been great, but and John, we, John Weiner named his son after Pat and
organized
the bench, and Tim Dile and aunt started this whole golf tournament and Pat's name to raise money for Dana Farber.
And it got big once I got involved they started it, but I've really taken it to the next level. But they've they have it's pretty overwhelming, I always, I was always sad that I thought that if Pat and I, not that we would've, but if we had ever gotten divorced, that I would lose a lot of those guys because they're such quality people that I would want
as
a part of my life. And I know that a big reason I was still as close with them as I was because of Pat and. It's pretty amazing that after his death they, there's still, I know I can call any one of them at any time of night and have them show up and help me out,
yeah. And we had Sarah on the podcast and she was talking about how she showed up at your house one day and was floored that the guys were all doing your yard work.
Yep. And she's, so that started, she's I had to sit in my car and compose myself because I turned the corner and I was shocked at first. Yeah. And then she's I just lost it because I couldn't believe that, it was a mix of shock and honor all happening at once of like the type of people that we get to call our friends.
Yeah. It was pretty, I think Ity started that and Joe Brady, it was the first, I think, I'm trying to think. Sarah. Sarah came the second year. So the boys did it that first summer he died and. To get the yard in, in shape. And I was obviously having a hard time and Ryan was about to turn one, which was really difficult for me.
For so many ways. And the wives all put together a first birthday party for him and the men did my yard and they did it for the next two years too. We all got together and they helped out and we had food and like celebrated riot and celebrated Pat and now this golf tournament has turned no way to do that as well, yeah, it was definitely unbelievable.
And to go back to Pat's story, so yeah, at the time he was diagnosed, he's, a basketball coach. He's playing basketball regularly, so he's not someone that's like loafing around and hasn't been taking care of himself. Nope. Yeah. And it went from, a diagnosis in November to him passing away in June.
Yep. Even you guys didn't think it was as, as bad as it was. When did you know it was worse than the doctors had told you.
When we went to Dana-Farber, we realized I hate defending the first doctor we saw because I, to this day hate him. For giving us an unrealistic hope.
But he didn't have all the information, so I think he was ignorant in telling us anything without all the information.
But
Pat then after we left the first hospital we went to, he had a PET scan done which was gonna scan whole body and we went to Dana-Farber and that was where we had the news.
We did, we went into Dana-Farber thinking it was, he was fine. And Pat and I fought every day about if he should get treatment at Dana-Farber, if he should get treatment in Worcester. And I had two friends that had gone through and. Melissa had finished her treatment in Kasha, her cancer was revving back up again.
And they both went to Dana and I just didn't understand why we would have a hospital so amazing, so close by and not use it. So Pat just shut me up, went with me to go see Dana-Farber and he walked in and you knew it was different. It was, you knew it was like this special place.
Every floor had a different cancer. There were volunteers everywhere and there are people of all different walks of life and colors and ages and genders and just everything. And it was just so crazy to me to see that the cancer just didn't discriminate. It wasn't, one group of people that were targeted.
It was just, you couldn't look around this room without seeing someone that reminded you of someone that you loved. And so we go into the doctor and the doctor tells us, forget what he tells us, and Pat what do we know what stage it is? And the doctor was blown away. He's do you not know?
And he's no, the doctor said it was fine. And he goes it's stage four. And I still remember Pat asking how long do I have?
Yeah.
And I was so mad that he asked that question because I didn't wanna know. Yeah. But the doctor, we heard it differently. But the doctor said about a year and we were just shocked.
And there was one point, now pat never, pat wasn't sarcastic. Pat didn't throw things in people's faces like I do. But he had been complaining about his back and I've had back problems my entire life and I was just tired. And we had two small kids and Pat was whining about his back. And it was not my proudest moment, but I like flipped my shit on him.
And I was like, enough about your back. I get that we have stuff going on. We're gonna figure it out. My back hurts too. You need to help out around here. I'm sorry your back hurts. But I can't listen to a complaint about it anymore. So the doctor is telling us like where the. How the cancer is spread.
And he said there's also a a cancerous lymph node pushing on a nerve on your spine and that's causing the pain. And I still remember Pat looking over at me going, huh? Like it wasn't the backache, like the fucker had like cancer in his spine. And it's oh God, I felt so terrible. But that might have been one, walked outta there.
What? I think that's one of the few moments in his life where he got to prove you wrong though.
Correct. I was right about Dana Farber, but he was right that his back pain was not just a bad back. We walked out. I called his parents and told him the news and we, I started a blog that night to tell, we figured we had to tell everyone and to let people know what we were dealing with.
And we just plugged on and he started, we were still very optimistic at first. He started treatment the day before Thanksgiving that year. No. Yes. And he had a port so he had, was getting chemo, remotely for two days and he, so I had said he was having trouble following, but the first night after chemo, we were coming home, we picked the kids up at his parents' house and he was able to eat and it was already, we saw a difference.
And the next day we went to my aunt's house for Thanksgiving and he ate even more and we're like, oh my God, like this is amazing. This is already happening. And he had gotten an email from a coach at Becker that there was a young kid who was I think 21 who had been diagnosed with this on the hockey team had gone through treatment and was in remission.
So we're like, alright, like we got this beat and he just consistently was going better. He was gaining weight every week. The doctors were amazed at his progress. We had a scan done, I think in January or February after eight weeks and everything had shrunk 50% and it was amazing. And. I always called his parents after the appointments, but that appointment, he called his parents and he wanted to give them the good news about how well he was doing.
And then we just kept plugging along and we got a scan that wasn't so great, the doctors weren't sure, and then we just monitored it. And then, so that kind of brought us to the end of April, beginning of May. And he had trouble breathing, so he went to the hospital and they did some scans and it turned out he had some blood clots.
So he was put on an oxygen tank, but was still doing pretty well. He actually went to the Clark alumni golf tournament with an oxygen tank and played 18 holes of golf. And then Memorial Day weekend, he had gone to the bathroom and realized that his pee was an odd color. So we had called and earlier that week.
We had gone to the hospital, he had filled up a fluid and they drained him. And I remember writing a blog post that night about how jealous I was that he, he lost nine pounds in a half an hour. And he the doctor thought that maybe the odd color of his pee was because the fluid had been drained.
So we were on the phone with Dana-Farber and they had us come in on a Tuesday after Memorial Day, and he, they were gonna switch his chemo treatment, but the labs came back and his kidney function and his liver function were off. So they decided to admit him into Brigham and Women's, and that was on a Tuesday, Wednesday.
They thought maybe there was a blockage, so we were looking at surgeries and a couple other scans, they thought he potentially had this other disease that happened that was not a good prognosis for people without cancer, nevermind people with cancer. He ended up going on dialysis. And then Friday.
He was getting ready to go in for surgery to have the blockage removed. And I'm outside of the room and I remember seeing his doctor and his nurse practitioner coming down the hallway and they brought me down to the end of the hall and they said, we have some bad news. And I said, he has a disease, doesn't it?
Doesn't he? And they said no. And they said that the cancer had spread to the blood in his liver, and it was only gonna be a matter of days before he died, and there was nothing that could be done. So it was just shocking. Did you feel like you
were, like, punched in the face when you heard that?
Because
it was just, it was awful. Like I knew it was bad when I saw them. And Pat's doctor, who I had grown to love was very. I never really showed much emotion with us. And because I'm crazy, I said to Pat, we need to get him to like us because if he likes us, he's gonna try harder to save you. And I come in like super, like being like, oh, hey.
I'm like, we're gonna be like the hunt young couple that everyone's gonna wanna save. And Pat's nurse practitioner was so handsome, and my other friend, Lori, who has also since passed away was going through treatment at the same time. And Lori and I would text me like, Mike gave me a hug today.
And she's why did you get a hug? I'm like I was crying. And she's I have cancer. And she would text me and say Mike gave rubbed my back. And I was like, what do you mean he rubbed your back? Why was he rubbing your back? It's I had an allergic reaction to the chemo meds.
I was like that was dramatic. But I couldn't craft the doctor, but that day he was rubbing my back and it was just so surreal. And we went into the room and my brother had flown in and I forget where he was living at the time. I don't even remember. I think he was in New York at that point, Brooklyn.
He, yeah, he was in town. So he was there and Pats aunt and uncle were there and they left the room and we told Pat and we said to the doctors, what's next? And they said pat, there's nothing we can do. And he goes thank you so much for everything you did and I know you guys tried your hardest, so thank you.
And so they leave and I find out I went for a drink with the nurse practitioner later. And then I, when I spoke at Dana-Farber recently with the doctor, he told a story too that he left the room and there was this whole group of doctors from Brigham Whitman waiting to hear what was happening next.
And he couldn't talk and he just started sobbing and had to walk away. Because Pat made such an impact on his life, and we both had, and the way that Pat handled all of this was just so insane. And. At that point I called his parents and said that they had to come. And I called my son Laura, who had the kids and asked them to bring them to the hospital so they could say goodbye.
And, it just started trickling all the information and people were flying in from all over the place. And it was the most inspiring and devastating and emotional next couple of days because Pat was just this rock star and, said goodbye to everyone that he cared about in his life.
For the most part. And one of our friends who's in the military, that we have no idea what he does because he is not allowed to talk about it at, he flew in, gave Pat a hug and said goodbye, and then got on a plane and went to some location that I, to this day, don't know where it was. But Pat just sat up in bed and just held court and I don't know, I purposely did not stay in the room for those conversations.
I wanted him to have that time with his friends. And, I've heard some. Some stories about what happened in there. Some people have told me, some people can't tell me to this day what he talked about, but he was so amazing. And I remember Saturday night a doctor asked me if Pat was sleeping, and I said he was.
And I said, why? He goes I wanted to say goodbye. I am leaving and I won't be back till Monday or whatever. And me being the pleasant person I am, I was like what is he gonna die before then? And he is no, I just wanted to make sure I saw him. I just, he just, I just wanted to tell him how much he's inspired me.
And he woke pat up and, said goodbye to Pat. And Sunday morning Pat woke up and said he didn't wanna see any visitors. And it was that night that he died. But it was insane. It just, it was, there's, since then there's been other people in my life that have died and unexpectedly and come through with cancer.
And looking back, it was so quick, and obviously I would've wanted so many more years with him, but. We never had to watch him suffer. People didn't have to watch him suffer. He died with dignity. He died as an inspiration. He had some times to say goodbye to the people that he needed to say goodbye to.
But no one had to watch him just suffer over months like two of my other friends have. Yeah. So it was so sad that it was so quick. But, my mother died unexpectedly since Pat died. My friend died in an accident, leaving my house unexpectedly. You have all this, you don't get to say goodbye, you don't, it was just so sudden.
And I've had two friends die from cancer since Pat died. That was long and drawn out and just so devastating to watch them and their loved ones suffer time and time again. And, I would've loved to have so many more years with Pat, but quickness of it was a blessing that the kids didn't have to suffer through it.
He, the only thing that he ever got upset about was how I was gonna explain it to the kids, that he was gone and it's ironic today's Father's Day and
which we didn't plan. Ally.
I know Ally's been having a tough time today and has been very upset that, she doesn't have her dad and other people do, and that's what he was worried about.
But I know he was grateful that the kids didn't have to watch him suffer. And they were so young. Allie was three and a half when he died and died right before Ryan's birthday, before he turned one. I think he was happy that the kids didn't have to go through years of watching him suffer.
And, it's not gonna be as the grief isn't there, the sadness will be there, that they don't have him, but they didn't really go through grief like everybody else has. And to, I think,
to some of the things you spoke to, they're so lucky in the sense that they have so many people who love their dad that they're gonna, that they are gonna have so many more stories and so many more people that support them.
Yeah. They're two of the luckiest kids. I know.
Me too. They're happy and they're so loved and I said, how nice is it? They're never gonna hear their parents fight. They're never gonna hear anyone say anything bad about their dad. They're gonna grow off not having him, but they're gonna learn about him for the rest of their lives, just like an overwhelming amount of support.
And love, and they're not gonna have bad memories of him. It's, and how lucky that is. Not, I don't think many people can say they only have good memories of their parents. I miss my mom every day, but there were days that I didn't like her and there were bad memories I have of her and I but those kids aren't gonna have a single bad memory of their father.
And I'm so grateful for that. I'm, for the people that are still in my life and his friends, and our friends and my friends to be able to give that to the kid, because I think that's a gift that when they grow up, they're gonna appreciate in a way that they can't
now. And you've always been tough.
Like even before your, your mom passed away and definitely before Pat you've always been a tough cookie, right? You don't take shit. You say what you have to say, like you've always been a strong person. And even like to watch you go through everything you have, especially losing pat, like you just got stronger.
But I think what's so amazing is that you, and I don't know if it occurs to you this way, this is how I, how it occurs to me, but you haven't gotten stronger by putting up thicker, taller walls the way some people do when they go through things like this. How does it occur to you and besides the sadness, like what do you carry with you that you're aware has made you different than before?
I think a huge part of it is just wanting these kids to know how loved they are and to have a good life, and knowing how important that was to pat. People have, said how great it is that I've done this for the kids and I've, pushed through and, but for me it wasn't an option.
No. Yes, I could have stayed in bed every day and cried and let things fall by the wayside, but Pat, left me a voicemail message. I forced him to, but he left it to me because I, my brother has one from my mom and it was this amazing message and I didn't have any voicemails from my mom to save because I never did an answer or I never gave her a chance to even call.
'cause I was just so busy calling her. So I made sure Pat left me a message and he wrote letters to me and the kids. And in my letters and the videos we sent, he left for the kids. Just all talked about what a great mom I am and, to listen to me and they, things would be fine. So I just think that I just wanna make him proud and.
I want the kids to see that, life sucks and life's not always fucking happy and fun and rainbows and, but sitting around and crying about it, even though I've been crying for 20 minutes. So I guess that's super critical. But I just think that there's a way to be strong without being tough and shutting everybody out.
And I think I've learned through all of this, especially with the passing of Pat more so than my mom, that it's okay to ask for help. It's it's better to let people in than to shut people out. And I think I'm, I want the kids to learn that, that, one of the things that Pat had said, that this is a tough, in the message that, I have obviously memorized, but one thing he said was, I know this is a tough hand to get dealt.
But being as tough as you are and as strong as you are. You're gonna be able to get through this. And I just think that's such an important lesson for so many people. Not just the kids or not just me, that, things don't always go the way that you want them to be, but just by being strong and tough, you can get through it.
And I think there, but there needs to be some compassion behind that and some softness too, because, keeping my kids in a bubble and not letting anybody in and not smiling and laughing and having fun is not a way I wanna live my life and not a way I want my kids to live their lives. And I don't want, this tragedy to define who they are.
It's, I've seen some, like Ted Talks and I've read all these grief books, and one thing that stuck out to me was that he's gonna be a part of my life and their life every day. And we are who we are because of him, the good and the bad, and they've, because of what happened is, part of who I am today and that's gonna be something I'm gonna remember always.
And they are too. But it just shutting all of that out and ignoring all of that without being able to have fun and happiness is not a way to live your life. And it's definitely not the way that he would want us to live ours. So I think I've just taken that where, yep, I can handle these things and I can push on, but I can't let it turn me into someone that can't allow love and life and fun and into our lives.
You're doing a great job. Thanks. Care of, I think, knowing how much you like the people. Talk a lot about the grief process after something like this and what it means to just start putting the pieces back together after, and showing up and going to work and figuring out what life looks like after.
What I'm curious about are what are the moments after that you really give yourself credit for that have surprised you that you made it through that or that you've taken that step? Like how have you surprised yourself since this in a way that gives you a sense of victory or confidence?
Oh, that's a difficult question. I think the fact is people think it's crazy or, but it's just the way that I've had to deal with it, like finding humor in a shitty situation. I think I, I find a victory in 'cause it hasn't changed my personality. And finding a reason to smile and be happy every day is something that I'm proud of.
And every time, the hardest thing for me still to talk about is the kids and their life without their dad.
Yeah.
Gets me every time. And, I had the whole first year, first without Pat, the first holiday and our first our first anniversary happened six days after he died.
And I remember joking with him in the hospital being like, there's other ways you could have gotten away without buying me an anniversary gift, but he didn't have to die. But, I thought it was a little aggressive, I still have the first all the time with the kids and those, Allie lost her tooth and I cried and it was like, what?
It's a stupid tooth like it's supposed to cry. And, it's just sad for me that he's not there to see that. But I think the fact that I can still, I don't end up in a puddle every time something happens. And I'm proud of the fact that I can show up for the kids and I'm proud that I give them a reason to laugh every day and a reason to be happy because I know how hard it is for them, or I know what they're missing out on, more so than they do.
And it kills me because he was definitely put on this earth to be their dad. And it, it destroys me that they're missing out on that. But I think the fact that they are two very happy kids despite this monumental loss. I think it's something that I am, I'm proud of. There's definitely some choices that I've made over the past three years that I wish I didn't and things I wish I had done differently or better.
But at the end of the day I think I have two kids that Pat could be very proud of. So I think that
it's huge. That's what makes me
happen.
Yeah. You also have a clone yeah. Which you didn't know you would, you were gonna have even when Pat passed away. To see Ryan make faces like he does and dance like he did and Yeah, like just, besides the fact that he is a
way better athlete than Pat was though he is unbelievable.
And Pat was the college basketball athlete as well, which is, correct. It's, yeah. We talked a little bit about it before about how. You really wanna see signs, right? That people are still with you after they've left. Yeah. What are things that you and Pat talked about or that you've done since to reconnect with him?
Oh, God. So one crazy thing is, so I went to a medium one day and it was Colleen Pauletta and she was like skeptical and stuff. And we're in the hospital, pat and I, and I had said, I need you to do me a favor. He, I need you to promise me two things. He said, what? And I said, I want you to give me a sign that you're okay, and I want you to give my mom a hug.
He's okay. I am like, no, I'm serious. Just promise. Just to but head until the
end. I appreciate that.
Seriously. And he's I promise. And when I went to the medium, she said, I kept my, she said, this male present came through and blah, blah, blah. But she said. He said to her, I tell her, I kept my promise, I gave Eileen a hug and I lean with my mother's name, and no one really knew that story.
So Colleen and I were like a puddle. So there was that. And people, his nickname was Turtle. And people talk about being turtles all the time. And I the day after he died, we're home and there was like this giant rainbow in the sky. And I told Allie that was Daddy's way of saying hi to her.
So every time we see a rainbow, I don't know why I did it, because it breaks my heart every time she screamed out the window, hi daddy and waves. And we had a he, she found a coaching whistle of his, and I said, oh, that's a special whistle. And she said, what do you mean? And I said, that's a whistle that only works for you guys, and that's a way for you to say hi to daddy.
And I pretended to blow in the whistle and I couldn't blow it. And they took the whistle and they blow the whistle. So like today for Father's Day, we went outside and she blew the whistle and Ryan blew the whistle. We still see rainbows that I'm hoping are really from him. And there was one day we were in Maine and we saw a double rainbow.
And Ally was talking to it like it was, pat, and I'm crying and he's don't worry, mommy. Daddy knows how much we loved him and how we know how much he loved us. So daddy's okay and we're gonna be okay. And my friend was driving and he asked him to put on the radio or something. So she put on a, he put on a station that he had never put on before.
And the song that came on was the song that was on his memorial video that Clark put together that it's been a long time since I've seen you, my friend. And it was just crazy that we see this rainbow. And then this first song that comes on is him, so there, have been things like that.
Like Dan, all things swears that every time he is at the gym, like a Kelly Clarkson song comes on, or a part in the usa. So those we swear our pats. And when I went to speak at the Dana-Farber event, the DJ puts us, starts doing the music, and the first song that came on was Chicken Fried by Zach Brown.
And that was one of the last three songs that we listened to in the hospital. It was two songs from Hamilton and Chicken Fried by Zach Brown. Little things like that I think are him showing that he is, he's still around. And still with us.
You had a thing with change too, right?
Oh yeah, Colleen did.
At the same medium, she asked, did anyone has anyone found any change? And, say no. She's sometimes the loose change is a way for them to tell you that they're there if you see the random places. So we're like, okay. And you already got me later. I'm already hooked.
You can have my money. I'm gonna come back like you just told me hug my mom. And like you knew about the tattoo on my foot. Like you got it. We're good.
Yeah.
So Colleen and I had gone to a consignment shop beforehand. She bought a jacket. We go out to dinner, we meet her husband Adam, who was very close to Pat.
And we talk about Pat, a little. Adam makes us stop because he is upset. We finished dinner, Colleen goes home and she texts me later and she goes, what was it about the change again? And I tell her, and she said she put on her coat from the consignment shop to show Adam and put her hands in the pocket.
And there were coins in there which was insane. Yeah. And then, a little while later she was making her bed and her and Adam are like neat freaks and there was loose change on her bed. Like loose change on my bed would mean nothing to me because it's just like the boys all joke that I would be bartending and they would come home and just find like dollar bills, like all around my room.
'cause I was just change on my bed means nothing. Change on Colleen's bed is insane.
Yeah.
So there was, yeah, that too. I forgot about that. I, I definitely, no Bobby Kini the day after Pat died with his class on a golf course or a, I don't know, one of the, a Frisbee golf course or something and a big turtle walked by.
And there's definitely, he is, he's definitely there. And I think every time Ryan, he was the basket pat's there with him and he hasn't really helped ally out in sports yet, but I think he just put all his talent into Ryan. He is he's definitely made his presence known,
which must, be equally heartwarming and heartbreaking.
Yeah. Sometimes it's annoying. Like today all Ally wanted to see was and act all she wanted to see today was a rainbow. And she was saying how lucky we were. It was Father's Day and it was raining because that's Daddy's way to say, hi. And so I was like, what can you fucking just give a rainbow today?
Like the girl's six years old and she's crying 'cause her dad's dad and everyone else gets a, so come on. But then my friend died March 10th and she had gotten diagnosed right after Pat and the day after she died there was a rainbow and a smaller rainbow. And Allie said, I think that's daddy teaching Lori how to say hi.
So every once in a while when I think we do need it, he comes through with it.
Talk about a kid that knows how to pull heartstrings.
Ah, she is brutal. So yeah, she really, she has a gift, that one. Yeah, she just, she was something,
are they able to talk about him and are they significantly, are they less emotional about it?
It's just, what's
Ryan is Allie, Allie has gone through phases. When he first died, she would say things that I just wanted to die myself. She'd say, I want cancer. And I was like, why do you want Cancer Ally? She goes I want cancer so I can see daddy and, things like that.
She's very sensitive about things like that, but she'll also be she'll be blunt too, but Ryan left though, Ryan more Allie does get emotional about it when he's not there, but she, talks about him all the time. Yeah. Ryan is just it was awful. The other day she came in crying.
I was like, what's wrong? And she's. Ryan said something about Daddy that made me sad. And I said, what? We had some friends over the house and they're going around the room like playing get to know you games, it seemed, and one kid was like, oh, raise your hand if you're in preschool. And Ryan just goes, Walt, raise your hand if your dad's dead and raise hand.
So he has replies your humor and Pat's humor. Like Cubed.
Yeah. So it's because I am blunt about it because sometimes raise your dad, raise your
hand
if your dad's
dead. Oh my goodness.
Like sometimes me making other people uncomfortable makes me feel better. Like one of my friends said oh, if Ryan a real mom of boy, and instead of just saying yes or no, I have to be a bitch and say he doesn't have a dad, so he doesn't have a choice.
And she's what is wrong with you? I'm like don't ask stupid questions. She, she does, she gets a little bit more upset about it. She was the one crying today. And Ryan's just yep, my dad's dead. And one time, see, actually Jeff Cohen was over the house forever ago and we're sitting down in the basement and Ryan was still, I think it was the summer Pat died at the end and Ally goes, look at our cute little family.
I was like, what do you mean Al? She goes, you know me, you Ryan, and Jeff. I'm like ally, Jeff's not our family. And she's like he could be our new dad because you cannot do this by yourself, so you can be in charge of me and have, can be in charge of Ryan. And then poor. We had, I put in central Air and Adam Pauletta gets me a guy to do it.
And because it, I, anytime I spend a lot of money, I just say that's what Pat would want, which is not what Pat would want. But I felt like I wanted Central Air.
And Time out real quick on your Central Air story, pat would definitely not want you to spend any money because we know how much he budgeted for toilet paper.
Oh. Yeah, it wasn't until he had the stomach fog. Stomach fog and like a bleeding asshole that he had let me get like fancy toilet paper. Yeah. I will be forever grateful for the stomach fog because I was allowed to not be bleeding every time I wipe my ass because Pat finally let us buy, go toilet paper.
Yeah. So if you can't have good toilet paper, you definitely can't have air conditioning.
Definitely the worst. But like poor Ryan goes up to the air conditioning guy and was like oh God, what did he say? Because I think I blacked out when he said it, but asked him if he wanted to be our new dad because his dad was dead and the guy was like like he wanted to cry and like he already knew.
So I think allie's sensitive. Ryan has gotten my bluntness about it, but I also think Ryan didn't really know him, so for Ryan it was just like this thing. But then Ryan will, if he gets in trouble by me and he's crying, he'll say he wants daddy. But I think he's just being manipulative. Yep.
And so I started his face like dad, you wouldn't wanna listen to this either. And then he shuts up. But
so this is exactly why you guys need your own Netflix special because just the idea of your son walking around asking every man he sees to be like, maybe you would be a good fit.
Oh God, it's just so ridiculous.
One time he asked who did he, he asked someone to be his new dad. And I think he asked, he's asked aunt to be his dad. I think he asked my brother to be his new dad no pal like this. I'm not gonna marry my brother. We're just gonna, things aren't that bad.
Yeah.
But yeah, he he can do it bluntly.
Allie's definitely a little more sensitive about it, but I think she has just more emotion because she gets it more and she had a relationship with him yeah.
Do you think that you would remarry someday?
If it was the right person I would want someone that Pat could be proud of Yeah.
That Pat would would want around his children. I would never let someone in my life that Pat wouldn't be okay with. So if I was gonna open my heart to someone, they would know that this is someone that I would want around. So they'd have to be someone pretty, pretty special for me too.
Yeah. To
Remar. But I think, I'm not close to that idea.
Yeah.
I would, I'd want, I'd want someone that would understand that they're not replacing their father, but could step in and be a father figure, because I think that's something that would be nice for the kids to have a good, I have these amazing men in my life.
But they also have their own lives and are gonna have their own, or either have or are going to have their own children. And, I wouldn't, would never marry someone, so my kids have a stepfather, but if I found someone that is someone that I think Pat would be proud of and happy with, then I think that would be someone that I would consider remarrying.
Yeah. Like I don't think you would even waste your time dating someone that wasn't gonna be worth your time. Because you know Exactly. It's interesting that there's so much pressure on whoever you might have a relationship with in the future that you know, I'm sure there's some joke in your head like, pat never had to go through these hoops.
Yeah, no kidding. You really mean easy buddy. Oh, we went through, pat went through a number of hoops, so Yeah.
I just want to really say thank you for sharing all, like your whole story with us because it's not easy to retell and you do tell it regularly to support fundraising opportunities and to keep Pat's story alive. And I hope that it does become a little bit easier as time goes on for you to tell those stories.
And I am glad that you have kids that are, a wise ass just like you and Pat were and that you haven't left less lost your sense of humor and that you appreciate the support you get from love, but also the support you get from other people sharing the irony and the humor with you.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So besides getting a dog now that you can, 'cause Pat can't say no. What other exciting things do you have, coming up for you in the near future?
Not I'm taking the kids to Cape Cod in a couple of weeks for their first concert. We're going to Kids Bop.
Whoa.
Watch out. Don't get too crazy.
Yep. It's gonna get cray. Pretty cray. Big difference for my Billy Joel being my first concert. But we're, we just finished the golf tournament which I'm proud to say raised about $11,500 for Dana-Farber. And in September we have the Jimmy Fund walk.
So pretty soon I'll start fundraising for that and recruiting new walkers. So that's a, it's an overwhelming thing, but it's exciting and it's fun and it's hard.
We ask everybody on the podcast where they put themselves on the powerful lady scale, zero being average, ordinary human, and 10 being like, super powerful lady.
Where do you feel today and where would you put yourself on average?
God. I probably put myself higher up today because you keep telling me I'm a powerful lady. I don't really think, I don't know. I don't really consider myself that powerful just because I just do what I need to do.
I don't think I'm doing anything extraordinary. Being a mom is hard, but there's a bazillion other people that are moms and, yeah, I've had some shitty cards that were dealt to me. But, I made the decision to be a parent and that came with a commitment to make sure that they were well taken care of no matter what.
And I'm just feel like I'm living up to what my job responsibilities are. Obviously hearing people tell me what I do is amazing, is great, and that makes me feel more powerful. But I don't really think that I'm doing anything out of the ordinary. I just have some. Out of the ordinary experiences for some of my age.
But, I think I'm doing what I need to do. I don't
know. So what number would you give yourself? You're not getting out of any more numbers on this podcast. Come on,
Sarah. I've had too many numbers so far today. I don't know, a five. I don't know. All right. I don't know. There's no
right or wrong answer.
I was just making you pick a number.
Yeah. I don't think I'm like a superhero, but I like, I know that at the end of the day, I'm not like lying in a puddle like surrounded by bomb bonds and things of ice cream. And if you are like, that's great and that's how you have to handle it. And I'm not begrudging that.
Usually my bomb bonds are earlier during the day watching tv. Like I'm not in bed with them.
Yeah.
I know I'm doing a good job with the kids. I know I'm giving them a good life, so I know that keeps me up from zero. I know I could be doing a lot worse but, I always think there's room for improvement, so I wouldn't put myself at a 10.
One of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the podcast, in addition to, obviously you being one of my favorite humans was, that I don't think, and we've talked about this in advance as well, that a lot of people aren't talking about like young widows that aren't widowed from military situations.
You mentioned to me before that once you started telling your story, you started finding like other women who are in similar situations as you or even men, right? Yes. Both of whom have lost spouses. What has it been like to be a person that other widows come to and look to for counsel, and how has finding that community changed your life?
I think it just makes me feel like maybe this happened for a reason, I don't like the line that everything happens for a reason or, God had a plan 'cause I, I don't get it. But maybe I shouldn't say that. I think makes me feel like it happens for a reason. I think it makes me feel like some good can come out of this.
Yeah. My friend Joe, whose wife was sick right after Pat, we went through all of this together. And I just hit everything first. And his wife passed away in March. So I was happy that I, not happy that I had gone through this, but it made me feel like I could do something for him that other people couldn't, that I could navigate these uncharted waters for him through, in a way that no one was able to do it for me.
Because when it happened to me, I was the first of the people that I knew. My friend Kasha died a month later and so I had her friend Chris, and another guy defense attorney I worked with, his wife died a couple weeks after Pat did, and then now Joe. And they've all become such an important part of my life because we can have this fucked up sense of humor about things that other people look at us.
I'm like, how could you say that? But. It, it makes you feel stronger, but it makes me feel good to know that I can let people know that what you're thinking does not sound so fucked up. So I read that option B book by the woman from Facebook, and now I'm blanking on her name, whose husband died unexpectedly.
And she said something in the book where the one who wrote Lean In Yes. And the Sheryl Sandberg. Sorry to keep interrupting you. Yeah
no. I read that book and I was like, oh my God, I think that too. And reading her book was the first time that I felt that other people knew what I was going through.
Where you're upset that people aren't asking you how you're doing every day because they forgot. But then it's but I don't want you asking how I'm doing every day. I'm fine. And so she made me feel like, okay, like I'm not alone in this. And then I feel like I'm able to do that.
For other people, to be someone that they can talk to. And, there's a majority of people that don't know what we're going through. To have that group of people that do, I think is comforting in a time where comfort is very limited.
Oh I think anytime that you deal with something that you see as negative in your life, it gives you access to other people who are going through it.
There's, that's the silver lining, I think, to whatever in your life you would consider bad is that now, yeah. You have a relatable story for people who have been in your shoes and or a place to really show your strength because you can't, you don't realize how powerful people are or how powerful you are until you see what the opposite option is.
Like the contrast of how you choose to live your life versus what you have to deal with magnifies how powerful you actually are.
Yeah, that's a good point. And that's something I want the kids to see. Like I said, like it's gonna go wrong. They're not gonna have perfect lives, no one does.
And just the way you deal with it needs to be the best way possible. And I hope by build in this community for them that they realize that, in, in very negative things, there could still be some positives.
And then we've also talked about how like you starting to lean into taking care of yourself and your own wellness, because there's been a lot of, dealing with grief and extended grief based on the other people that you've lost since Pat and figuring out the kids and them going to school and your new jobs.
Yeah. What do you want for you?
Honestly not much I'm going to the gym for the first time in a long time every week, which is not something I've done for a while, but it's been over a year now. So that's been, it's an hour that it really is just about me.
I'm not worrying about the kids. I'm not doing anything else, but I just want my kids to be happy. Everything I do for them, and I have fun and I have good relationships in my life, but at the end of the day, if my kids are happy and they're having a good life, that's really all I want.
Because I know it's what Pat wanted. It's what we wanted together, and I, I wanna make him proud.
You certainly do, and it makes me really happy that he continues to, be present and send you guys rainbows and throw loose change in people's beds. And I just look forward to me it's a whole other layer of discovering like the magic of Pat.
Like we already got all this ridiculousness of an awesomeness of who he was when he was, here in physical form. And now to see what else he's doing from the other side. I really it makes me happy when you realize that irony and sense of humor, doesn't go away for people who have suffered tragedy and people who have moved on when people being a wise ass continues it, it definitely warms my heart.
Yeah.
You are by far one of the most powerful ladies. I know you were before all of this happened to you and us and the family, and I'm just yeah, inspired by who you are, who you show up for people as what you're doing as a mom and that you're willing to share what you're going through for the benefit of other people.
So thank you for being a badass. Thank you for being awesome. I love you, and this has been really fun. I
love you too, Kara. Thanks for thinking of
me. Of course,
I talk about the definition of a powerful lady being that who is going through life, the good, the bad, the ugly, and continues to keep showing up and showing up big. Courtney is the epitome of that definition to continue to laugh and love and find joy. And be pursuing her career and doing all the things that make up life while missing her mother, her husband, and the friends who have passed, speaks to what an amazing human she is.
She's incredible. An incredible friend, an incredible mother, and an incredible inspiration. This episode is dedicated to the amazing life and memory of the great Patrick Oroszko. May we all honor him by dancing often, celebrating sports, being loyal friends, and waking up each day to be the best versions of ourselves to connect, support, and follow Courtney as well as support her fundraising efforts.
You can follow her on Instagram at C Price 1 0 8 0. Email her courtney dot Oroszko@gmail.com. And donate to our Jimmy Fund campaign, the link for that, and all of the other direct links that we mentioned are available@thepowerfulladies.com. In this episode's, show notes, if you'd like to support the work that we're doing here at Powerful Ladies, there's a couple of ways you can do that.
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I'd like to thank our producer, composer, and audio engineer Jordan Duffy. She's one of the first female audio engineers in the podcasting world, if not the first. And she also happens to be the best. We're very lucky to have her. She's a powerful lady in her own right, in addition to taking over the podcasting world.
She's a singer songwriter working on her next album, and she's one of my sisters. So it's amazing to be creating this with her, and I'm so thankful that she finds time in her crazy busy schedule to make this happen. It's a testament to her belief in what we're creating through Powerful Ladies, and I'm honored that she shares my vision.
Thank you all so much for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. I can't wait for you to hear it. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life. Go be awesome and up to something you love.
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Follow her on Instagram: @Cprice1080
Email her: Courtney.oroszko@gmail.com
Donate to her Jimmy Fund Campaign: http://bndfr.com/XCs9s
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Amanda Kass
Graphic design by Anna Olinova
Music by Joakim Karud
