Episode 381: Chocolate, Intuition & the Courage to Follow Your Own Path | Katrina Markoff | Chocolatier, Entrepreneur & Alchemist
What if trusting your intuition could change the way you build your business and your life? Chocolatier, entrepreneur, and alchemist Katrina Markoff joins Kara Duffy to explore the intersection of science, spirituality, sensory experience, and the power of following your inner knowing.
Together, they talk about the courage to trust yourself, why so many of us give other people’s opinions too much authority, and how reconnecting with the wisdom of the body can help us make clearer decisions. Katrina shares her journey from studying chemistry and attending Le Cordon Bleu to creating a chocolate company rooted in biodynamic cacao, regenerative agriculture, neuroscience, and ritual.
They also dive into abundance versus scarcity, knowing when it’s time to let go, the unexpected people who can open doors for us, and why sometimes the path forward begins with simply remembering who you already are.
“You have to have faith that it’s gonna get clearer and have the abundance mindset. The more I let go of the past, the more opportunities are coming.”
-
-
381_Katrina Markoff_
===
Eng jordan: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, Engineer Jordan here with a special treat before we get into today's episode. Today's guest, Katrina Markoff, is a world-famous chocolatier with one of the top 10 best chocolates in the entire world, she is the owner of Violet Flame Chocolates. And she's giving our amazing listeners 20% off your entire order when you shop at Violet Flame Chocolates.
Just use code KD20 at checkout. That's capital K, capital D, two zero at checkout. We hope you love your beautiful chocolates as much as you love this episode
Kara Duffy: Welcome to the Powerful Ladies podcast. I'm Kara Duffy, and today's guest was awarded the National Geographic top 10 best chocolatiers in the world. I didn't know this was an award, and I'm so glad to know that it exists today. She's chocolatier, entrepreneur, and alchemist, Katrina [00:01:00] Markoff. From studying chemistry with a goal to attend medical school, to a Cordon Bleu, to becoming a chocolatier, katrina is an entrepreneur letting wisdom, intuition, ancient knowledge, and neuroscience guide her path. We chat all about letting magic and our intuition lead us to the most delicious and joyful parts of life and business, why time to connect with yourself and your inner wisdom matters, and why allowing yourself to travel to places that are calling you just makes the most sense.
I love this conversation and hope you do, too.
For everyone who's about to hear what you do, I think they're gonna be so jealous at the level that, at least from the outside, it seems that you get to play and create and just have a delicious life. So let's tell people what you do, where you are in the world, and if your life [00:02:00] is as delicious as it seems
Katrina Markoff: Not as delicious maybe. It's been a journey like everyone's, but so I work with chocolate, cacao, and in beautiful ingredients to make confections, truffles and toffee and things. But I'm very interested in the energetics of ingredients and how something can be exceptional, what goes into making it exceptional.
And it's usually the people, the heart, the soul, the terroir, and consciousness. So I'm really interested in that. So I, I think a lot about the power of thoughts in food
Kara Duffy: So okay, so you live in this world of chocolate. You were given an award from one of my favorite organizations on the planet, National Geographic, as the best chocolate on the planet.
Katrina Markoff: Yeah, top 10 chocolatiers in the world.
Kara Duffy: yeah, big deal. And what I love is that [00:03:00] you are coming at it from this hybrid of tangible and intangible concepts, right?
The science and the spirituality was listed. How early in deciding to become a chocolatier did you bring the spiritual side into it, the intuitiveness into it? Or was it like, let's figure out if I can make things first, and then we can start bringing it closer to how I think about food?
Katrina Markoff: I think, it, it was a, a root from my childhood. I was really-- I spent a lot of time outside alone with- in my backyard, and had lots of fruit trees. And I also was fascinated with science because I really wanted a microscope when I was little.
And I think I was just so fascinated at the, on the micro level, like micro, macro, and I... And then the idea of things changing states of matter with heat and distillation, fermentation as I got o- you know. but in the beginning, it was like [00:04:00] an Easy-Bake Oven that was, like, fascinating to me. You have things that are powders and liquids, and then they become like a, a paste, and then they become a solid.
And I found that to be very magical, and I think the science and the magic or the spirituality was always together in my mind, in the way I saw things. Because you always have one to support the other, and sometimes you don't have the other, science, for a while. But then eventually it catches up, up to what we knew from a gnosis of perspective.
And I am fascinated with the, the essence of things. I think that's that's a kind of, like what we're supposed to figure out within ourself is what's the essence of us? What's our signature? And then do that. It's a very complex thing, but I'm always on the quest for finding it, and I try to get people to find theirs through tasting chocolate.
Kara Duffy: When I was doing my research [00:05:00] and prep for this, I realized that we had some things in common, such as kind of being entrepreneurs since kids. And there's a... I think, I don't... I'm curious where your kind of courage or bravery came from of just "Of course we can try." What made you just jump in and be like, "I can do that"? Because to me, they always start as like a project first, and then it rolls into becoming a business.
Katrina Markoff: Yes.
Kara Duffy: how is it for you?
Katrina Markoff: It's such a really insightful question, 'cause I'm trying to figure out which parts were the biggest pusher. Was it a combination? Because I had an older brother who, was a bit of a bully at some point in my life, and so he would say I couldn't do things 'cause I was a girl, and so that just really revved me up.
So there was that. And I grew up Macedonian, and there is a little bit of a, "We serve men," modeling, and we work our butts off and do everything. And there was, like, [00:06:00] this thing like I could do it all and and be nice. And so it's like that, and then I think I had a lot of time alone at a young age, I think that imaginary play, you are the hero or the heroine in your story.
And I think things like that, whether that's, God, universe, spirit, or higher self or whatever you wanna call it, but starts to build up confidence. I believe it's a natural mechanism that all children are born with, and that's why it's so important for that daydream downtime.
Because I think you get these positive beliefs somehow when you're sitting there, because you imagine yourself as a great power in some way. And so even though you get teased and bullied and all the things, there's that underlying little spark that if you nurture, you [00:07:00] are pretty much unstoppable.
But when you let people dampen it because you start to bring in their opinion as truth, it can really inhibit growth, and I had a long period of where that happened also. I talk a lot about right now and always, it's like a a process of remembering. It's not reinventing. It's remembering. And then I think when you remember, you're like, "Oh, yeah. Duh."
Kara Duffy: Yep
Katrina Markoff: "I can do this." Like, why not? I don't know. So-
Kara Duffy: I'm, I'm personally fascinated with that kinda eight-year-old age, like maybe eight to 10 or seven to nine, where we have one foot in childhood still and one foot in we can kinda take care of ourselves. Especially when I grew up in, I, like I was babysitting by age nine so it's like there was I could do things that adults could do, but I still had this kind of broad spectrum wonder.
And to your point, so [00:08:00] often I'm working with clients who are just like stuck and wondering why things are not moving forward. I'm like, " what did eight-year-old you or kid you wanna do?" Because The things we liked then, chances are are gonna make us happy now. So that, your i- idea of remembering and going back I think is so important because it gi- it does, it sparks these things back up.
And maybe it's not exactly the same, like Easy Bake Oven, but you evolve. And I, I wish more people were taking that moment to just do personal development in general, but to, to sit and listen to our inner knowing because we don't need the input so much as like just what's already just listening a bit more.
Katrina Markoff: So what was it like for you as a kid? Like, how did you... What did you love, and how is it manifesting now?
Kara Duffy: Oh my gosh. Someone asked me a while ago who, who were the powerful ladies I admired? And I realized as a kid, most of them were fictional, and I never thought of them as fictional so much. I was reading Babysitters Club and [00:09:00] Nancy Drew, and I was watching Jem and the Holograms, and all of those were women way too young to be running businesses, and they were.
There was no conversations in any of those spaces that they shouldn't be doing it. They were doing it with their friends. They were like, "That sounds like a good idea. Let's do it." And I was like, "Oh, well I guess that's how we do life. We just think it's a good idea, we do it."
And so I never thought twice about let's just create it. Let's do it. Let's figure it out. But I was often, like, teaching and organizing and a lot of things I do now, I was doing as a kid. I was thinking recently about stuff I haven't done as much as an adult, and I used to do a lot more writing and drawing, more art, and I've done less of that as an adult, so I'm like, "Okay, how do I get back to some of those things that I was good at and lit me up at the time?"
But yeah, I was always kinda scheming, and I also as a kid thought I was a bit of an odd duck and I was kinda always 40 [00:10:00] years old. I was always older than other people were. It was just, "Let's do it. Why, why are we doing dumb things like spending so much time watching TV?
Let's go do things that we can do. The world's so cool."
Katrina Markoff: Did you not have a lot of parental oversight telling you, "No, you can't do this. You, you need to be doing that"? Or how did that happen?
Kara Duffy: My parents are still married. We just had their 50th wedding anniversary. And they just told us that we could always do whatever we wanted to. They're like, "Okay, do the research and, and read about..." Reading was a big deal. I was named after a superhero. My dad's a comic book nerd, and so the idea of with great power comes great responsibility was, like, a foundation of our childhood.
And so they were like, "You're powerful. What are you gonna do with it?" "You can't be a jerk. You gotta be nice. You gotta help other people. But go do your awesome." And I was like, "Okay."
Katrina Markoff: Love that
Kara Duffy: Yeah, I feel very lucky that I was given that as my kind of starting point. And I also think, to your point, there's just some essence where I was just born this way also.
Katrina Markoff: [00:11:00] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kara Duffy: But I feel... And I kept having, I'm sure you would too, like when you went to Cordon Bleu and other places you kept getting probably equally rewarded that you were on the right track, but also hold on, I need to j- I still need to shift it more. That's something I can look back at my life path and see as well too.
Being-- I kept getting rewarded for, and seeing other people who are being braver and doing things their own way, and so I just love that. I've always been obsessed with those types of people
Katrina Markoff: Absolutely.
Kara Duffy: When you were starting this out, like what was driving you to create it?
Did you want these awards of best chocolate in the world or in the US? Were you thinking "Let's go for the Michelin stars of chocolate," or was it like much more of a personal pursuit in the beginning?
Katrina Markoff: Not so much about awards. I just I liked exploring things that had interesting tensions that I knew were magnetizingly interesting and relevant. And so, my first chocolate company, I did a lot of interesting ingredients in [00:12:00] chocolate to talk about, like the idea of like seeing culture through food and storytelling.
And this, my Violet Flame brand is more about like going inside into your inner world and traveling inside because it's all pretty much there, and like sitting with yourself to remember and receive. I think this whole journey has been me pushing myself to be the full me without worrying so much about what everybody thinks.
Not everyone's gonna agree with what I have to say or how I view this and, a lot of people like stick to their spiritual beliefs without like being open, and that's fine too. I am curious about all paths and... But I just have to keep staying true to what I know is true, 'cause I think that's just what you're supposed to do and build that.
In healing ways and love miracle ways and all those kinds of things do no harm type of thing too. It's so fun to have meaning behind what you're doing. It's not to make [00:13:00] money. Money is part of it, and it all comes. I always believe the more aligned you are with your heart, the more the money comes.
And the more brave you are aligned with your heart, the more the other currency comes, right?
Kara Duffy: Yes. Hallelujah. Amen. Yes, yes. I hope everyone hears that and plays it back again. It is the secret to tapping into more money, abundance, like the flow of it all. It's how I'm able to help people double their business. We're not radically transforming a system or an operation. It's why are you doing something that you shouldn't be doing?
Katrina Markoff: It's just cl- clearing out the clutter of all the other opinions that live in here. And that's why everything I'm trying to do is try to get into vagal tone, get into the body, the wisdom of the body. And in that space, it's so safe and so vast and not critical, and you can explore a little bit in that place, and then, you get the little downloads and... yeah, I agree. It's not that the mind is pointless. You [00:14:00] know what I mean? It's part of it, but it can't be u- tu- turned up too loud, or you tend to get stuck
Kara Duffy: There's so many different for lack of a better word, like voices you could be listening to in your brain. Is it a voice you heard outside that you're giving too much authority to? Is it your family part systems that are speaking up too loudly that need to calm down?
Like I think it's very hard to separate like feelings from knowing and anxieties or fears versus like what is true sometimes. And it's why I really, again, recommend people are doing some sort of practice with themselves for that, because once you're able to just sit and listen and recognize it more often it truly makes life easier.
'Cause then you're not battling with all these things you've heard and people, what people have said and what you've are worried about, and it's just okay, not that those things don't matter at all, but they shouldn't be as loud as I, as we tend to let them be
Katrina Markoff: So I think, how do you practice that [00:15:00] in small ways so you learn to trust yourself, to know, to discern the voice? And I always say it's the smallest things like how you get out of bed in the morning, which way feels right. And don't think it, just feel it. So if you slink out of your bed at the bottom, there's something that happens if you feel that's the right way and you do it, it's like an endorphin rush.
"Oh, okay, how am I gonna open the door?" And then all of a sudden you start to be like understanding like what your body says is the right way to go because the mitochondria is, I think, like a third of a second faster at knowing the answer to the right next move than the brain can process a thought, and that's like ancient genetics, and I find that so interesting, so I try to test myself on that all the time. And but you have to be courageous to do it 'cause you might feel like you look stupid, or you don't wanna say hi to the person even though you're nudged like to say [00:16:00] hi to the person or whatever. I'm like, "Well, they're not gonna say hi back, and i'm sure they're not like, don't wanna hear from..." All that that happens. But the more you push yourself to do it, I feel like the more you get free
Kara Duffy: Mm-hmm.
Katrina Markoff: and and calm and happy and easy and light and, and easy to laugh. And all of those things I think make it better
Kara Duffy: Well, certainly, I think also makes people less anxious. And when we're in an era where anxiety is at all-time highs doing that practice and like going on a walk and being like, "Okay, I'm just gonna do an intuitive walk and see where I end up and see who I talk to." It doesn't have to be scary.
Like it's just walk out your door and just y- you do, you have to act like a kid and be like, "Hey, what's next?" And almost like talk to yourself and ask.
Katrina Markoff: Exactly. Totally. Oh, I love it. I love we're having this conversation.
Kara Duffy: Well, [00:17:00] there's so much, for the first time ever I would say, in the world of entrepreneurship, there are people investing in things that are kinda hanging out in a woo or woo-adjacent space. And we're, and they're seeing investment happen here. There's even I have on my desk these high-frequency headphones that are, like, vagal nerve, attunement things.
Katrina Markoff: How are they? Have you tried it?
Kara Duffy: haven't even opened them yet. They just arrived, so I'll let you know once I do. And so there's investment happening there. But I'm curious for you, This is two questions. And they go together. The first part is knowing when to end a business and start a new one and make that shift, 'cause I think so many people get attached, and they get stuck in a business that maybe they need to release to go on to the next business that's kinda waiting for them.
And then similarly, how are you balancing how you're setting up your business and having advisors believe or invest in it? Are you revealing [00:18:00] all of the intuitive, spiritual side, the magic side of it? Or are you like, "Hey, guys. Here's some spreadsheets. It'll work. And by the way, we're gonna do all this cool stuff that you don't need to worry about right now."
Katrina Markoff: I am trying to like science and spirituality all in one, like the financial models and the manifestation models like all in the same, like together. And so I think people will opt out if they don't like that kind of culture. And I am not afraid anymore of talking about that to anyone, to a landlord, to...
And it's funny, the more you talk about it, the more people feel comfortable to say what they're feeling too, and at the end of the day, this is all to like just be a positive impact in the world and get people to get out of codependent fear-based relationships so that they can take a risk on themselves.
And it is a messy thing, and it is a, it is something that you have to be very present to hear. Because if you don't, like me, [00:19:00] who I I can handle a lot of pain, so I tend to stay in situations for way too long until I am kicked, slapped, shoved out. And I, ugh
Kara Duffy: Me too, girl. Me too.
Katrina Markoff: Ugh. It makes me so upset that I... So I'm trying not to do that anymore. You know what happens? I think when you're young and there's no family or significant other or you're kinda like you're on your own figuring it out you can do that more easily. But then, like, when you have attachments to people, all of a sudden you're, like, thinking about them and what do they think and, like, all of a sudden, I don't know, I, I don't know how you make these I guess you have to be courageous to making, and also pick the right people who will support your, I don't, I wouldn't wanna say wanderlust, but your nudges as to where...
So if I, were to have stopped something that was not good for me a long time ago, [00:20:00] I know it would've been better, but somehow I rationalized I should stay in it because of all the things everyone else says you should stay in it. And I was not brave or clear, and Yeah. So it's, I think it's a daily multi-daily practice every day to reset, which is why like you can eat chocolate in five minutes and have that moment. It's so pleasing and, and it's so much more than just like numbing out, which is a lot of times people have sweet treats for numbing out. But if you use it in this way, it has... It's almost like time stands still when you do it, when you taste like this
Kara Duffy: I love this idea of taking something that, it's almost controversial how people feel about sweets and indulgences. And there's a woman we had on the podcast before, Jill Jordan, who is talking all about like just wanting women to come back to feeling passion [00:21:00] because there's so much tone down that we're told to do.
And it doesn't need to be f- in a sexual capacity, but it's like, where are you finding passion today? Like, where are you allowing full sensory experiences to light you up? And n- we have such, especially as women, in diet culture and like what food's good, what food is bad. To take this chocolate, which we know that the science says chocolate is good for you when it's the good, clean kind.
Like taking that and having that moment you're mentioning, like this meditative listening moment, and it, it feels so empowering to me thinking about it in the sense of taking authority back over it. I'm like, "Nope, I'm claiming chocolate, and I'm claiming it to be my moment, and we're gonna make it even bigger than like a naughty thing you'd have to hide otherwise."
Katrina Markoff: I keep thinking about it as you need these transitional bridges to get into intuition, and I think the sensory system is one of [00:22:00] those that does it. You know, music is super powerful when it's the right music for you. It's so powerful to change your state and get you into a so much lighter state that you can fly, and I think melting chocolate on your palate that's really well made and it's really intentional also can do it. Touch can do it. Lots of things can do it, like in facials, massages. I always have really, not always, but often great downloads and just connection and clearing and I think when you go just beyond the healing part of it, you get into the gold. And that is so cool. It's not a drug. It's just a sensory system we're so blessed to have.
Kara Duffy: Yeah
Katrina Markoff: And you can do it with beautiful food.
Kara Duffy: When I was reading about how you've described the chocolate and the cacao rituals and all of these things, I instantly went [00:23:00] to the movie "Chocolat," which is one of my favorites. In fact, my daughter her name is Kaia Roux, for Roux in the movies. There's things about that movie that I thought really related to your story.
There's the single mother going off on her own and being brave and making choices from your mom, yourself. There's really listening to the wind or whatever else you're listening to. There's using that sensory exploration. There's using it as an gateway to changing the world, a community, et cetera. How much parallels do you think that there might actually be in kinda how you are showing up in the world?
Katrina Markoff: A lot.
Kara Duffy: Mm-hmm.
Katrina Markoff: Say a lot. I remember watching that movie and being like my life. That's my life, and I better leave it like that 'cause I'm meant to move a lot, go a place, do the work, go to the next place. And that's not always conducive for a family and things or a business, but I know that that's where my heart is.
I like to move. I [00:24:00] always have, and I always did until I started my first company, and I'm missing that a lot and that... It's like new energy, new place, new people, new challenges. I really believe in this era now the, the presence of human to human is really powerful. And as hard as it is to build a business by showing up and doing tastings and talks, it is so powerful.
And you don't need the biggest community. You just need the right micro community of people that understand what you're doing, and it supports your work, and you support them, and it's this great cycle. And I, I kinda see myself doing that, I have a dream of going to Malta and maybe doing a little a little place to make the chocolates there and maybe one in Thailand or, I don't know.
I, I'm ... It's funny you bring that up. I really love that and really, I just love it. I relate to it so much,
Kara Duffy: Mm-hmm. Well, there was the-- I saw on Instagram somebody was [00:25:00] saying "I'm a California sun, a New York moon," or, "A New York rising and a Paris moon." And I was like, "Oh, I so get that." I don't know if those would be mine, but I get that.
Katrina Markoff: Yes
Kara Duffy: ' cause I've also moved a ton around the US, I've lived abroad, and my coach gives me a hard time because she's "You're so good at building a community, like, why aren't you doing more in-person regular meetups?"
And I go, "The idea of having to be in one place for the next year on the same day gives me anxiety."
Katrina Markoff: Totally. Yes. Agreed
Kara Duffy: so how are you m- currently managing this push-pull of feeling the groundedness of where you are, but then also feeling like the tentacles out there calling you like, "Come hang out with us too"?
Katrina Markoff: Oh, we would need a lot more time to talk about this topic . But I'll just say I, I feel like it's about to [00:26:00] happen again because my kids are a little bit older, almost 14, almost 17. They love to have their kind of independence, which has been hard for me, and I've been in a really transformational period for I don't know, maybe nine years, and I'm coming out of it, and abundance is coming.
And with that, I'm going to start taking a lot more trips and connecting with a lot more people and trying to just, I don't know, just explore a lot more and take a lot more risks and be a lot more outside my comfort zone. So I can't say I've done a great job with it over the last several years, but I'm about to
Kara Duffy: I get it. I-- my daughter's about to turn 10 months, and I have I've lived in California now longest than I've lived anywhere in my entire life, to the point where I'm like, "How did I let that happen?"
Katrina Markoff: Right
Kara Duffy: this is such an incredible home base to have, so it's okay, how do I really start [00:27:00] using the home base? She, she has a passport. She has since she was, like, three months. We haven't used it yet, but I'm like, "We need to be ready to go, girl."
Katrina Markoff: Yeah.
Kara Duffy: So I, I, I get it. It's hard. And I think for people who are so attuned to listening to themselves and that pull to go do something else or try something else or be somewhere else, it's really an interesting dynamic when you have to accommodate for the fact that other people that are, you care about so much have no idea what you're talking about. They're like, "But here's fine." And you're like, "Wait, what?
Katrina Markoff: So you're about to take her on a trip? You, you think you're gonna, ready be doing it soon?
Kara Duffy: Probably I think it'll end up being like Q1 of next year b- just based on like other events we have between now and the end of the year here. So I think that's where it'll be. But we've already done a plane ride, we've done a road trip, so we've got five states down or six states down and some flying.
We're like making progress.
Katrina Markoff: I love it. I love it. I, I remember I [00:28:00] challenged myself to bring my sons everywhere with me, to every meeting, to everything. I was like, "I can do a flight from New Jersey to Seattle with two kids." One was, like, barely one and a half. Oh, but I kept being like, "I have to just, I have to do it 'cause I'm gonna do it."
And then, yeah, and then things kinda changed after that, but yeah, it's a good challenge. I, I hope you do take her everywhere and just-
Kara Duffy: Thank you. Yeah, and I also just like hanging out with her, so it's like fun to... It feels weird when I'm not with her.
Katrina Markoff: Of course
Kara Duffy: But yeah. Well, some other questions I had for you that, 'cause there's so many things we could talk about as we're seeing there's a quote in one of your bios about the fact that your business is rooted in biodynamic cacao, regenerative agriculture, and neuroscience. Love these, but I, I would love to break these down for the listeners of like what these mean and how they're integrated into your business. So just starting with like biodynamic cacao, what does that mean?
Katrina Markoff: So it's [00:29:00] ba- biodynamic is basically s- following the system that basically the Waldorf system of harvesting by the lunar cycle. And why is that important? Well, it's because you actually get the most fruition when you follow the lunar calendar of when to harvest, when to plant, when to nurture based on the system of nature.
Because it's like we don't control nature, we participate with it, and that's very... It's basically, in a way, the same as regenerative farming, except for regenerative farming really focuses on not clearing crops and having multi-crop culture and not monoculture. So Again, that symbiotic relationship between other plants and the crop that you're harvesting is really important for the health of all.
And [00:30:00] so you don't just focus on one being prolific, but all living synergistically, in synergistic ways. And when you do it that way, you require little pesticides, little interventions, because the other plants are working to protect and help the others flourish. And so it only makes sense. It's just not something that people really talk about.
Cacao can only really be grown that way anyway. It's a rainforest. It's ... You can't control it. It's wild. Yes, people plant it, but they can't plant it without having banana trees, and the associated plants, and some mushrooms to help prevent against witch's broom and the different diseased things that can happen to cacao.
So without going into it too deep, but it's it's only the natural way, and it seems like it's some departure or a claim to some unique system. It's just the system. It's just that somehow in America, and not just America, many [00:31:00] places all over the world, we've created this monoculture of growing, soy, corn, and wheat to provide for livestock.
And we erode the topsoil because there's no trees to break the wind and the water from eroding topsoil, and then you get soil that isn't fertile really, and you lose all the minerals. And so then we have to add minerals to our diets because we don't have minerals coming from the foods we grow, eat, grow.
So I'm really interested in that. And maybe I'm speaking those three things almost more on a scientific level, but when you also talk about people that are choosing to grow that way, they have a lot of pride in that's, in those systems. And so therefore they have a lot of love that goes into it because it repr- it's almost like a connection to themselves, and they [00:32:00] have a symbiotic relationship with the plants, and it's mutual respect.
And those farmers tend to be far more profitable. And when you make a superior product, you can sell it at a higher rate of cost, and I am so happy to pay the higher rate and tell the story through my product. So it becomes a really beautiful system. And the neuroscience piece is It's again like talking about, okay, well I, I speak a lot about like you can't really taste until you're calm.
You can, but you can't to the level that you're meant to as a human with the capabilities you have to sense over a trillion different scents. If you had the sensory language, you could do that, and that is fascinating to me, which means our sensitivity is so strong, which I said earlier about the mitochondria being able to te- detect a truth of something, whether it's organic or non-organic, or if this is the good path or the not the right path before the [00:33:00] mind can process a thought is really interesting, and I lean a lot into that.
But you can't really hear that 'cause it's quick and soft before the mind comes in louder. So how do we get people present to eat the chocolate this way? And then, that science side of it is interesting, but I only say that for those who need to hear it because other people can feel it. And if you're working on having a stronger sensory perception it takes some presence and time to do that, so I always like to say both.
Almost like just almost like the science justifies the spiritual belief. It's just that the spiritual people tend to know before everybody else, but nobody wants to always hear that like that, that-
Kara Duffy: Well, and, and I think that there's a exchange between the, the science and the magic or the spiritual side that it reinforces the enchantment of it, right? The farmers are enchanted with the [00:34:00] product. The, the systems that are naturally there, the cycles that are naturally there there's a, a deeper level of vitality and enchantment that I think show up when we're layering all of these things to it.
And I-- nothing makes me more excited than when an ancient wisdom is validated by science today. And we're not spending enough time focusing on those things. But
Katrina Markoff: Yeah
Kara Duffy: I-- There's no-- You can taste in food when it's been cared for in a different way. I think tomatoes are a great example.
Katrina Markoff: Yes. Tomatoes are a great example.
Kara Duffy: You're like, "This tomato, somebody loved,"
Katrina Markoff: Yeah,
Kara Duffy: can taste it. "This tomato tastes like nothing."
Katrina Markoff: exactly. Exactly. It's so funny. I just made that comparison yesterday. It's so true about tomatoes. G- and I think everyone can relate to the tomato analogy. That was really good. Yeah, totally
Kara Duffy: But it shows, it show, it's showing up in chocolate, it's showing up other places. I get so [00:35:00] frustrated that we're not t- choosing the easy option in agriculture. Like, why wouldn't we choose three sister models in like all of the plants? Why wouldn't we choose not having soybeans forever that turn to dust and make everything worse? It's already there. Like why are we trying to improve a system that's worked for so long? It, I don't... It's like we're distracting ourselves
Katrina Markoff: w- it's the same thing we were talking about earlier though, like how sometimes people stay stuck because it's the, the comfort that they know. It's scary to move outside of what they've been told or what they've done because it's the unknown. Or, but it's really, in a way, like especially in farming it's really not, but it's hard for people to change.
I hope that people start seeing all these great cases of farmers doing regenerative farming and biodynamic and seeing that actually they have more abundance financially doing it that way. But, the farm bill and all the things, [00:36:00] follow the money, right? I guess follow the money, but they're not following the money in the new way, 'cause they keep wanting to get money from the government in the old way and to support the crops that the government wants you to grow. So the pharmaceutical companies want you to grow the seed and the pesticides they want you to use for the seed.
It's really hmm, suspect
Kara Duffy: You get trapped in a cycle that's not, like you're never empowered. Like for me, part of building my businesses and helping others with theirs has always been how do I give you freedom? And very similar to how if you're not paying for technology, you're the product. It's, I feel like it's the same way in the agricultural system of if you're getting something for free, how is it entrapping you?
Katrina Markoff: Nothing is free by the way, right? If someone giving you something for free, it's not free. You're gonna pay. You're gonna see how. Yeah, agreed. Yep
Kara Duffy: B- and so I think that also goes into like an [00:37:00] abundance versus scarcity mindset. This comes up so often with entrepreneurs because it do- it takes money to do things, and it takes money to live and eat and all of, all of the things that we have to kinda do in modern society, even when we're living slightly outside of it sometimes. How are you balancing for yourself as an entrepreneur in the ups and downs, your abundance mindset versus scarcity mindset?
Katrina Markoff: I had like a seven-year, nine-year, like total, like wipeout kind of dark period. And now I've, gotten centered again and I've had to shed the fear stuff a- every step as I go, but the more that I move into abundant mindset, the more abundance comes, and it's like again, faith.
It's like a faith thing. You have to believe that. But I've always known that to be true. Even when I had a lot of issues and struggles, I'd always [00:38:00] try to do little things to give to people. Just it's ... Maybe that's the Buddhist way too. You just give what you need, like into the world, and then it comes back.
And I think scarcity mindset people can be very scary, and I've been around w- too many, and they are not people you wanna be around. You gotta find the abundant mindset, and it just, everything flows. And help, try to help those that you can that are in the scarcity, 'cause it's, it will kill you
Truly
Kara Duffy: I also think that part of kinda going into these next levels we have as entrepreneurs and just humans in general, you mentioned the shedding part and letting things go. What has surprised you the most that you've let go since you've started businesses through to today?
Katrina Markoff: Being vulnerable, I don't like being vulnerable so much. I get ashamed of some of the things that happened and went on, and it just feels like how did this happen? Like, how did I [00:39:00] get here? How did this go? And I think especially, I think everyone, but I've been going to some of these friends that I haven't seen in a long time and going to have dinners, and just being there, people really wanna help and be...
People wanna help. People wanna help. I think that's the point. And I like to get everything figured out on my own in a little corner in solitude before I come out, but that doesn't work. You really have to still be part of the world, and I just am having so many unlocks right now because I'm light, and I'm going out.
Even though things aren't perfect, I'm going out. I'm talking. I'm getting dressed. I'm getting going and all of a sudden, there's just like the more I let go of the past, the more opportunities are coming. And it seems like [00:40:00] I see a brick pathway of gold. I, it's the weirdest thing, and I can't even believe I'm saying it, but I can see it now,
Kara Duffy: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Katrina Markoff: It's clearer. It's almost like you kinda see it, and then you start to focus, focus doing the things, and then it becomes clearer. But you have to have faith that it's gonna get clearer and have the abundance mindset. It's really, really important to, to give and be kind and generous and generous and generous. Not to the point where you get taken advantage of. You have to have some boundaries, but in general, it's just the right way to be, to just...
Kara Duffy: Yeah.
I think part of that flow state you were talking about earlier, the universe wants to support you, or the council, whatever we wanna call all the things, and it can't help you in all the ways it can when we're stuck in our little corner, because part of how it helps is by putting other people in our path and, the surprise and delight component they really enjoy [00:41:00] playing in.
And there's magic in allowing other people to contribute to you in ways you never thought that they could or would. So like the radical act of sharing what you need and what you're up to and what game you're playing with everyone, like from the random barista, to, people you've known forever, the speed of unlocking things I think is like the Jedi trick of, oh, the more I tell people, the more these things open and like go, go, go, go, go, go. Mm-hmm.
Katrina Markoff: Yes. So true. So true. And I will add to that, that a lot of the people that have shown up that have been, like, opening doors that seem angelic are not people that I really knew.
Kara Duffy: Yes. Mm-hmm
Katrina Markoff: And I think I got disappointed when people that I knew that were really close to me weren't the ones to help open doors, [00:42:00] and I sat dismayed and sullen on that for a long time, thinking those were the people to open the doors. Who I shared with them vulnerabilities, and they didn't show up. But then when I went out into the world and other people opened the doors, I didn't even know them. Why do they wanna help? Because people want to help. Strangers wanna help. It's funny it, it's just interesting. It's so interesting. I know you probably have the words to say that better, how would you say that? 'Cause I think that's how it goes
Kara Duffy: Well, I, I think that we get really attached to the people that we already have deep connections with being the ones that are the only people we need, and like that they'll have all the answers for us. And I think time and time again, whether it's clients or people I've talked to on this podcast, there is a theme of expecting our inner circle to be the ones with the magic golden keys, and they're not.
And it's [00:43:00] not that that's wrong. It's not that they're bad for it. It's just that that's not their purpose. There's a reason we have to go on our own hero's journey to get some of these things. Also-- And not just for our own evolution, but I also think that there's so many incredible people that are waiting for us who their whole their love language is this contribution that for them is no big deal.
It's like, "Oh, you need that email? Here, fine." You're like, "Wait, I've been looking for this contact for 20 years. What do you mean?" And so I do, I think that there's leaving that room for surprise and delight and magical things happening. We can only do it when we are out in the world, when we are with strangers, when we're going to new or different places.
Even if it's not another country just go to a different coffee shop for the day and see what happens.
Katrina Markoff: know, totally
Kara Duffy: but it's-- I think it's part of the beauty of humanity that you can't appreciate the help and support from strangers until you [00:44:00] allow them to help you.
Katrina Markoff: Exactly.
Kara Duffy: mm-hmm
Katrina Markoff: It's, it's-- And you have to be courageous to do that,
Kara Duffy: Yes
Katrina Markoff: that's, that's how, that's, that's the game of it. You have to do it
Kara Duffy: I think so too. Well, I think you and I could probably talk for hours. For everybody who wants to buy chocolate, taste it, get into their cacao rituals where can they follow, support, and find you?
Katrina Markoff: VioletFlameChocolate.com. It's all the handles with the same basic name, so you can find us there. And thank you so much. This was really great. I really loved talking with you today
Kara Duffy: No, me too. And then my last question for you is, what do you need? How can I help? What's on your to-do list or your manifest list that you wanna s- put out to me and this community?
Katrina Markoff: Oh. Oh my gosh. Well, I would just love to be connected to people that, this resonates with, this is my second year of this new business, so just would love for people to be connected.
Kara Duffy: [00:45:00] Thanks for listening to the Powerful Ladies Podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, leave us a review, or share it with a friend. Head to thepowerfulladies.com where you can find all the links to connect with today's guest, show notes, discover like episodes, enjoy bonus content, and more.
We'll be back next week with a brand-new episode and new amazing guest. Make sure you're following us on Instagram or Substack @powerfulladies to get the first preview of next week's episode. You can find me on all my socials @karaduffy.com. Until then, I hope you're taking on being powerful in your life.
Go be awesome and up to something you love
Related Episodes
Episode 81: Running Five Businesses While Fighting for Change | Chandra Gore | Entrepreneur & Activist
Episode 216: Choose Joy Over Prestige | Julie Hartigan | Chef, Coach & Culinary Travel Guide
Episode 318: A Brand Built on Sustainability and Community | Linnae O’Neil | Co-Founder of Chug Water
SUPPORT OUR GUEST:
INSTA: @katrina.markoff
WEBSITE: violetflamechocolate.com
INSTA: @violetflamechocolate
Created and hosted by Kara Duffy
Audio Engineering & Editing by Jordan Duffy
Production by Jordan Duffy
Graphic design by Jordan Duffy
Music by Joakim Karud
