Episode 6: Petting All the Dogs | Renee Colvert | Co-Host of Can I Pet Your Dog

EntrepreneurshipCareer DevelopmentPodcaster

Mar 27

Renee Colvert has built a career around following her curiosity. It’s led her from musical theater stages to podcast studios, with a few unexpected detours along the way. As co-creator and co-host of Can I Pet Your Dog, she’s interviewed everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to fellow dog lovers across the globe. Alongside her four-legged sidekick Tugboat, Renee talks about the winding path that brought her here, the mentors and moments that shaped her, and how embracing joy has opened doors she never saw coming. This episode is full of stories about creativity, risk-taking, and letting your passions point the way.

“We can all site someone who you don’t want to be like who is a showboat and so crazy. What you picked up on what not their showboat-ness, but their insecurity. They don’t believe in themselves either they just show it a different way. Be the person who accepts exactly who you are and you’ll never go wrong.”

— Renee Colvert

Joe Manganiello
Can I Pet Your Dog
Podcast Panelist
Jury Duty
Kara’s a Weirdo List
Justice
O .J. Trial Jurors
Cosby Jury - what happened
Hello Giggles
Zooe y Deschanel
Cuteness.com
M usical Theater
Th eme Parks
NYC
Personal Training
Travis McEl roy
Alegra Ringo
Lin Manuel Miranda
My Brother, My Brot her and Me
Hamilton
The Heights
Oprah Magazine “Podcasts that Make You Happy”
Pop Culture Happy Hour “Things that Make Yo u Happy”
NP R
Tooth Fai ry
Bo o the Dog
Pod Save Amer ica
Tugboat - Aug 17
Pit bull + something
Poma de
All Dogs Ap p
Hallm ark Moment
Parkour
Wag App
Inside of a Dog by A lexandra Horowitz
Un iversal Studios
Donna - female mentor at Univers al Studi os
Animal Actors Show
Broadway
Stephanie Block Broadway Star
Holly, female mentor & gym owner in LA
Crossf it
Muscle Up
Karen Ki lgariff
My Favorite Murder
Do you need a Ride w/ Chris Fairban ks
Mindset the book
Growth Mindse t
Fixed Mindset
Spor ts G ene boo k by Da vid Eps tein
Scie nce of Sp ort
ESPN
M anifesting
DoTerra
Colorado Spri ngs
Air F orce
Pi kes Pea k
Garden of the God s
Kis sin g C amels
San Diego
Boulder
Outdoor Retailer
Tiny Homes
Ja y-Z
NFL
4040 C lub (n ot th e 333 c lub)
Fancy Fraus
Extrov ert
Geog ra phy of Bliss Book
Bhu tan
N epal
Equ inox
½ Marath on
Saucon y
Reebok
Pum a
Ragnar
San Fra n cisco
Napa
Or ange Cou nty, CA
Sober October
Joe Rogan
Ul tra Ragnar
Landmark
H ipflexor
Psoas
IT Bands
Bry Zaragosa
Paul Chek
Eat Move & Be Healthy
Follow along using the Transcript
Chapters:
00:00 From Colorado Springs to the big stage
02:15 Chasing musical theater dreams in NYC
05:30 Lessons from working theme parks and Broadway
08:00 Moving into writing and content creation
10:45 Becoming a podcast host
13:20 The story behind Can I Pet Your Dog
16:00 Landing Lin-Manuel Miranda as the first guest
18:30 Life with Tugboat the dog
21:00 Building community through podcasting
23:45 Mentors who shaped Renee’s career
26:10 How joy has guided every pivot
28:30 Overcoming self-doubt in competitive industries
31:15 The reality of creative entrepreneurship
34:00 Advice for pursuing your passion
36:30 The next chapter for Renee Colvert
We've been getting such great feedback about the I Am a Powerful Lady T-shirt that people have been asking where you can get them great news. You can get them at the Powerful Lady Store, the powerful ladies.com, click shop, and they're on sale right now. We get 15% off if you provide your email address to join our awesome newsletter.
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because we can all cite somebody who is just like, I don't wanna be like that person who was a showboat. Mm-hmm. And just so crazy. Then I will argue, and this is groovy, but what you picked up on is not their showboat nest.
You picked up on their insecurity. Mm-hmm. They don't believe in themselves either. Yeah. They're just showing it in a different way. Yes. So be the person who accepts exactly who you are and you'll never go wrong.
That's Renee Colvert and this is The Powerful Ladies podcast.
Hey guys, I'm your host, Kara Duffy, and this is The Powerful Ladies Podcast where I invite my favorite humans. The awesome, the up to something and the extraordinary to come and share their story. These are people that inspire me and remind me that everything is possible. I hope that you will be left, entertained, inspired, and moved to take action towards living your most powerful life.
Renee Culvert is a writer, a runner, a podcast panelist, and has one of the best jobs in la. She's a co-creator and one of the hosts on the Can I Pet Your Dog Podcast? A podcast dedicated to well all things dogs awarded podcasts that make you happy by Oprah Magazine, as well as pop culture. Happy hour from NPR.
Can I Pet Your Dog? Started in 2015 with Lin Manuel Miranda of Hamilton Fame as their first guest originally from Colorado Springs, Colorado. Brene traveled between LA and New York to pursue her passion in musical theater. On this episode, she shares her story of chasing what brings her joy, including being a mom to dog tugboat.
And how pursuing her interests have brought her through many career phases. We discuss how to know what your passion is, how to find your circle, and the competitive landscapes of Broadway and Hollywood, and the unpredictability of where life will take you. All that's coming up shortly. First, this episode is brought to us by our friends at York Athletics.
York is a Boston based, family owned performance, footwear brand that believes the fighting spirit inside all of us has a power to redefine individuals, inspire communities, and change the future. Obviously, they are totally aligned with the powerful Ladies' message. It's a three year startup with a lot of footwear industry heavyweights from brands like Nike, Puma, Reebok, who saw a need for clean, comfortable, minimally branded footwear in the performance space.
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Let me know when you are ready, Jordan, and if I am talking close enough. I have an issue with the mics.
Yeah.
I, it took me years to learn.
They're like, eat it. I'm like, I don't know.
Well, and for me it's like, so. I'm like, ugh. Like I'm not in germaphobe, but I also don't wanna make out where someone else may have made out.
Yeah. No, that's fair. Especially, um, can we sanitize this? But then she told me that Joe Magliano, whatever his name is, was your last, I was like, I would make out with this, that case.
Uh, sorry. We're gonna take five minutes for me to lick it.
How does that sound? As a recording
listeners,
let me explain
what you're hearing right now is right.
Okay. Ready Jordan?
Yeah, we can go.
Okay. Thank you so much for being on The Powerful Ladies podcast. I've been started with all of my guests. I just wanna introduce yourself, who you are and what you're up to.
You bet. So, uh, my name is Renee Culvert. I have a podcast called Can I Pet Your Dog? It is about dogs.
Amazing. So, yeah, exactly. We're not hiding what it's about and the title right there. Uh, and I'm a writer. And then, uh, a bunch of podcasts I'm a panelist for. So that's, uh, that's my jam right now. Awesome.
What does it mean to be a podcast panelist?
Oh, great question. So somebody else has the podcast and all I have to do is show up and say, I agree with you, or I disagree.
Here's a new opinion.
And then that's, that's basically it.
I think that's another job I need to add to my list of jobs that have, because that sounds awesome.
You'd be excellent at it.
I just got really excited because I finally got summoned for jury duty. Ooh. Like, I've been asking for this my entire life, and it just showed up the other day and I'm like, yes.
Now I think you may be the one person who is looking forward to jury duty. Does that seem right?
Well, it could be. It could be. It's not a common thing. Okay. So it's part of like, care is a weirdo list. But no, I like, I've always loved, um, the whole aspect of law and, and being, um, a judge and like just. I like deciding like the rules and what's happening and yeah.
Being logical and setting up for justice. So all those boxes get checked for me. And I also have like a hidden passion of like, maybe I should go to law school one day, but maybe I don't need to.
Sure. I'm like, I can just jump into
being a lawyer. They're not gonna
check
certification,
just go right to a judge.
No problem.
Yeah. Um, but if I can be a jury, like I get to like see it all, it's like, like a, a shadowing someone like a day at work with a lawyer.
That is such a good
attitude. I genuinely only know people who dread it. You should. Yeah. You should pave the way of, Hey, yeah. It's a nice opportunity to learn.
Right. And I'm, I'm a little bit nervous that I'm going to get there and ask the questions and they're gonna find something about me. They're like, mm-hmm. Oh, right. Like, she's not, she's gonna be bad for whatever side I'm on, and I'm gonna be like, no. Like, I promise I'll be good. I'm very fair. Like, lemme stay.
So I'm excited about that.
I feel like with that attitude, they will, they'll be like, she's she, she's the one person who wants to be here. Let's keep her. Yes. Right. Yeah.
How many days can you
do this? And I'm like, well, you only pay $15 a day. Yeah. So, I don't know. Right. Maybe we can trade some food or something.
That's that.
And do you have a, uh, a case that you're hoping for? I
mean, if it was up to me, I would love it to be like a big detective filled case. Yeah. Yeah. Not like, oh, my roommate didn't pay rent. Sure. I'd be like, oh. I mean, I would still be excited to do it. Right. But that would be fun. I would
only, wouldnt it be great if they brought in a jury for that?
It'd be so amazing. I feel like it's pay your rent is the verdict of that.
This is showing how naive I am about the entire experience.
No, no, no,
no, no. I'm sure there's, uh, intricacies that would allow Yeah.
For
a full jury, but yeah. I hope you do too. I'm excited. Thank
you. I don't think
you can tell me about it after you do it, but.
Uh, you can do a little wink, like it was fun. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Good deal. I'll see. Okay.
Yeah. As long as it's a case, not a case where I can't use the internet. Yeah. Like, I feel awful for those, um, poor jurors that were on, like the OJ trial and things like that where you can't communicate with the rest of society.
Right. For months. Yeah. Like what do you do, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess you read 24 7, which in a way is great. Oh,
I love books. I
like think, gosh, what was it? I think, forgive me, I'm probably gonna get this wrong, but, um, the people that were on the Cosby jury, uh oh. We had like massive news that happened while they were doing that, and then they all had to come out of it being like.
So who got shot? What happened? Yes. What's happening?
So yeah, it's uh, it's a little crazy,
like, like a country might not exist Right. The time you're on a jury like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. So, okay, so you have this amazing podcast about dogs. I do. You're a podcast panelist. Um, you are also a writer.
Yes. Um, and then you're a writer for what?
Great question. So I do a bunch of articles, just like online article stuff. Mm-hmm. So there is a, uh, website called Hello Giggles. Yeah. That Zoe de Chanel, uh, created for you. It's all real campy. So everything I do is the news, but with, uh, the, uh, the decoration of like, Hey girl, did you hear?
Uh, so you just have to like write that in front of Yes. The, uh, vitamins are good for you. Mm-hmm. So, uh, that's Hello Giggles. And then I also write for a website called cuteness.com, and that is only about animals.
Oh. Which is great, man. It's pretty cute. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. Awesome.
And then Jordan has mentioned that you've done some, like other like performing type projects, maybe some acting, maybe some, I'm not sure what that is, but she has mentioned you are a performer.
Yes.
So I'm on
career. Four or five at this point. Uh, it all, it all started back, back in 1842, uh, when I was, uh, a musical theater performer is how awesome it started out. Mm-hmm. So I worked at theme parks for a while. Mm-hmm. And then I got a show that took me to New York. Awesome. And then I did shows in New York for a while.
Mm-hmm.
And then two
things happened in New York. Uh, one doing the exact same thing every day. I was like, ohoh, I oho. I don't love that. Uh, and then also I was like, oh, I cannot sing like that. So it was a combination of I was bored and also I didn't have the chops. Yeah. So that turned into, uh, being a personal trainer.
Mm-hmm. And that brought me back to Los Angeles. Uh, and then I developed some running programs here and worked on that. And then that went into writing. 'cause I started writing, uh, fitness articles. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then writing. How did that, no, I think personal and then personal training weirdly got me into podcasting.
Uh, and there, and here we are. I mean, you never know what's gonna happen. Like ev there's been a theme of all the guests that have been on so far of how you start up at one place and you dunno what you're doing, but you're like that, that's either fun or let's try it, or let's figure it out. Yeah. And then you wake up one day and you're like, wait a second.
I've taken 18 lefts. Right. It's, I don't remember choosing to, yeah. You know, sometimes you do choose, I mean, I'm going, right, not left this time, but often it just evolves into. How you end up here. Yeah. So h how have you made the choices that have moved your career path along? Like have you followed fun logic, intuition?
Yeah. Well
I got two answers for you. Sure. One is a, a genuine interest of like, oh, that seems interesting. I really like that. I like the people that do it. That seems great. But then Kara, this is the part I'm not real proud of, is that it got hard. Mm-hmm. And the other thing I was doing, the competition got stiff and I bet there's not competition over in this other thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I
can tell you there's competition everywhere. Yeah. It's not easy anywhere. Mm-hmm. So, uh, so yeah, those are kind of the, the two things interest, but then also I wonder if it's easier over here. Yep. And it's not.
And, and now that you know it's not Yes. Is that, are you starting to look at other pathways of like, Ooh, can I do this?
Can I, like, do you keep expanding your interests or what you might wanna dabble in because of it? Yeah,
certainly. You know what's, uh, what's funny is that even though I kept saying no, because it was harder once I finally landed in podcasting, I'm like, oh, I love this the best. Yeah. This is, this is really great.
But you, I don't know if you've seen iTunes. There's a few of them out there. Uh, so the competition is Steve. Yeah. And I think this is the point with which I would be like, who am I? Mm-hmm. To try to start my own thing. What am I doing? Or to go to like a back burner element of it, of like, oh, I'll just, I'll help somebody else produce their podcast.
Yeah. Um, but so far it seems to keep, uh, sticking with like, no, I'm gonna keep doing it. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna keep trying and keep pushing so it, so that I can be in the game
Yeah. With
it.
Yeah. No, it's a fun game.
It is.
Yeah. Like I've been wanting to start the Powerful AIDS podcast for years now, and either it hasn't worked out because of my schedule or having a full-time job and.
Not knowing how to start. Like there's, it's an easy thing to get into, but when you're on the outside, it looks like it's this magical, mystical thing. Right. And so it's just been so nice that it's been working out the way it has now. And we've been talking a lot about universe breadcrumbs and like how if you just declare what you're gonna do and you lean into it, things start to work a little bit more.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but podcasting for me has always been driven by telling other people's stories. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's, we have so many stories about, everyone knows about celebrities and athletes, and you get inspiration from people who are big. Right. And like, millions of people know who they are. Right.
But for me, it's like, well, what about my mom? Yeah. Or my best friend, like they're some of the most inspiring people I know. I want more people to know about them because. Why, why shouldn't you? That's amazing. And so many people I think between, you know, your mom and Beyonce Yeah. Of like the powerful ladies spectrum of people who know who they are.
Right. Like there's so many people in between who wake up every day and keep doing it and keep hustling and keep figuring out. Yeah. Keep going between like, I don't know what I'm doing to today. I feel awesome. That's the reality of really being a powerful lady.
Right. And I think certainly the camaraderie of, I am very available to think I'm the only one.
There's something so wrong with me. I keep procrastinating. I'm so worried about what other people think. Uh, and then to get ahold of a podcast of people, everybody saying the same thing. You're like, oh, I'm in good company. Okay, alright. I see now. And it makes it easier to keep pushing along or at least not feel like, so what is wrong with me when you can hear stories like that?
Well, I think the podcasting industry has also been, it's a space where people are okay to be vulnerable and tell the authentic story. Yes. Like, partly like there is no face sometimes, like it's just your voice. And because it's, it's a startup for everybody until some of the, you know, big groups that are coming out now, but.
It's okay to tell the whole journey because that's what's real. Yeah. And that's what's been happening completely. Yes. So I think it's really refreshing in the fact that there aren't a lot of barriers to entry and that there's always more stories to tell and there's always things to talk about. And it's like.
I'm so thankful that there are people having conversations today that are outside of the typical information news sharing streams. Yes. Where it feels more real. Yeah.
And
people like you
who are starting it, who can facilitate, uh, I feel occasionally you can get ahold of a host who's like, yeah, but we're just gonna talk about me.
Sure, sure, sure. You're here, but we're gonna talk about me and you're so great about like, no, let's hear your story. Yeah. So I think more podcasters like that is also helping a lot.
Yeah. Like I, I, I would not feel empowered to do this if I hadn't heard other people kind of going through it too. Sure. Yeah.
Great work. So, what made you wanna start your podcast?
Oh, yeah. I didn't, oh, I wanted to stay as far away as possible from it. Um, I, so I was still personal training. Mm-hmm. Um, I think, uh, occasionally. So I was working at a gym, but then you can make some additional money just picking up mm-hmm. Clients. So I put a thing on social media, just being like, Hey, if you guys know anybody who wants to run a race.
Lemme know. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then there's a podcaster whose name is Travis McElroy mm-hmm. Who is very successful in certain, there's pockets of podcasting, but in his little pocket is big as you can get. So very lovely. Reached out and he was just like, Hey, would you want a barter? You can teach me how to run a 5K and I'll teach you how to podcast.
And I was like, oh. Oh, no thank you. Oh, no. Absolutely not. Because this was 2015. Yeah. And at that point, it's crazy how fast this industry has grown. Oh, yeah. But at that point, podcasts were for straight white guys who thought they were funny. Mm-hmm. And I was like, we've got enough of those. I think we're fine.
Yeah. Uh, but he was like, no, I, I think you really might like it and you would be interested. So all you have to do is think of a topic. Uh, so I went hiking with my buddy Allegra
mm-hmm.
To think of, uh, topics. Uh, and I kept interrupting myself to pet dogs. Uh, and we just couldn't get any other ideas. And at the very end of the hike, I was like.
Wait, should we do a podcast about dogs? Uh, and Allegra was like, no, nobody's gonna listen to that. That's a terrible idea. But I still for some reason ran it by Travis and he who has experience and knows how important a niche Yeah. Podcast is, was like, yeah, that'll work. So we recorded our, uh, our very first episode and I think, 'cause Travis was on the show.
Mm-hmm. So to have kinda like, have training wheels on your first podcast. Makes all the difference in the world. Plus our first guest was Lin Manel Miranda. Oh, yeah. Because Travis is good friends with him. So I think the combination of truly being passionate, uh, Jordan's here, she just threw her hands up in the air.
I didn't
know any of this nuts. I knew none of this. Isn't that crazy. Also, side note, Travis McElroy has, he's part of my brother. My brother and me. Yes. Um, which I know because I, I listened even before. Mm-hmm. I started working and podcasting. But Renee, please continue. No,
no, no. Uh, Jordan played it very cool when I told her, uh, who she's like, oh, sure.
Yes. No, I've heard of them. I've simply listened to every episode. No big deal. Yeah. So, but he's great. They have really good show. So Travis and his two brothers. Mm-hmm. Obviously my brother, my brother and me, and they just, they, I don't know. I think they've cornered the market on just like chatting. Mm-hmm.
Just chatting without any sort of errors on top of it. Uh, but they're also quick and funny. It's great. Um, but I didn't know Travis in that aspect. I didn't listen to his podcast. I just know him as a, a pal.
Yeah.
Um, so, so yeah. So we're at the point where we're gonna do, uh, dogs is the topic. Mm-hmm. Um, and I had listened to so many podcasts at that point that you just kind of have a vibe of like how it should.
Go. Or not even how it shouldn't go, but like, boy did I do a good mimic of other podcasters. Yeah. So I don't know if I necessarily had the skill right away, but I was just like, well, I'll just say the thing, things they say and tighten a story, like they tighten it and it should work. Plus Travis was also super helpful and like, here's for you guys, let's get you to segments.
Mm-hmm. So it's not one rambly thing. Yep. And then, then obviously the guest, uh, I was at that point, Lynn wasn't who Lynn is. He, uh, Hamilton was still off Broadway. Right. So it hadn't even hit hit, but because of a musical theater nerd, I knew him from In The Heights. Uh, I cried before the interview a little bit during it and a lot afterwards.
Uh, and then to this day, I can't bring myself to listen to it 'cause I guarantee it's just me tripping over my words and bumbling and asking stupid questions like, do you know what a dog is? Or something, some sort of, oh God. Um, but the plan was for us to just, just make a podcast. Mm-hmm. But Travis for some reason was like.
Now I'm gonna turn this into the network. Uh, and this, you know how sometimes you just get touched with magic? Yeah. Like, just luck, just insane luck happens. Yes. So they picked us up. So my very first podcast that I've ever done, very first episode, they were like, yeah, and then you'll just go straight to network, which never happens.
But I think all those things kind of fell in line too. Yeah. To make it work. And then we got super lucky because it's dogs. I would love to put myself, uh, like, eh, it's me. It's the dogs. Uh, but we got, uh, picked up by a lot of like magazines and just things that make you happy. Mm-hmm. So that helped a lot and that just kind of helped us, uh, uh, grow to a thing that is very niche, but now a thing.
Yes. Jordan? Oh,
no, no, no time out. Can you tell Kara specifically which magazine
gave you an award? Sure. So, uh, we are a oh oh oh, uh, Oprah. Mm-hmm. Uh, has a, I think the award was something like, uh, just podcasts that make you happy.
Yeah.
So we got awarded that, which was, uh, insane for her magazine. Yeah. Uh, and then there's a podcast called Pop Culture Happy Hour.
Mm-hmm. Uh, which is a pretty big NPR show. Yeah. Uh, and they named us things that make you happy. And none of it was just like, these girls are cutting edge with a lot of intelligent things to say, but just like the happiness Yeah. Was, was something that, that helped us out a lot.
When you get an award for a podcast from.
Oprah's magazine? Yes. Do you get a plaque? Does someone come and deliver balloons? Like what happens when you exactly. Get those awards over storms
and you get an award. You get an award. Yes, exactly. No, you would just, uh, got a little blurb in the print magazine, uh, and I don't think and hear me out. Mm.
That Oprah maybe knew about it. I feel like at this point she's got her people Yeah. Who can kind of coordinate it. But the fact that her people picked us, we're still gonna take as a notch in our belt. I'm gonna
give you full credit for Oprah picking you. I'm gonna give you full credit for her team picking you.
Thank you. I'm gonna give you full credit for the universe being like, we need more happiness in the world. You win. Great. Thank you. I, I love your take on this. Great. No, but really, I mean, that's who doesn't like animals and who doesn't like dogs. Yeah. And, and I know there are people that don't like dogs.
Sure. And if you don't like a dog, then you, I think you fall into two categories. Right. People who don't like dogs 'cause they prefer another animal. Great. Like you love cats, right. Um, but usually they don't like hate dogs. Yeah. And then if you don't like dogs and then you also hate children, then you're the people that I'm like, I don't think we can be friends.
Yeah,
exactly. I just don't understand your world. Yes. And that's okay. Yes. Um, though I am in the not necessarily nuts about kids category, so we've all, we've all got our thing. But
you don't hate dogs and children. Like, there's something about the magical combo. Oh yeah, sure. I hate cute things. Right. No matter what breed they are.
Right. Yeah.
I think those are serial killers. Yeah. Could be. Possibly.
Or just, yeah, just a little bit selfish.
A little focus. Well, I don't even know if it's selfish. They
just, they just have a different life than we have. Have. Yeah. Because you don't need to, you don't need to, you can not like dogs and not like kids.
And be a perfectly normal, functioning happy human that I would like to spend time with. Right. It's like when you're like, Ugh. Yeah. That's when I'm like, wait, what? Right. Do you also like tell everyone about the tooth fairy? Yeah,
exactly.
Don't want your killjoy game over here. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're using your power in the wrong way.
So true. It's so true. Um, but yeah, it's, you're right that, uh, that I think just people who like dogs have it. And then I weirdly started this dog podcast without a dog. Uh, so I was, I made up a word called a dog wanter. Yes. That's not a word. Wanter is not a word, but for some reason that title worked. And then you can represent the people who are responsible enough to have a dog and the people who love them, but don't quite have the, uh, the means with which to have one.
I mean, that's like, it's almost like, um, people like dating or married. Right. You're like, I'm desperately seeking a puppy.
Yes.
Yeah. And I have one. Yes. And this is what the reality is actually like.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it did kind of provide a nice juxtaposition of, uh, having and not having, and, and then Travis stayed with us for a year and a year, I think about a year.
Uh, and then he moved. Uh, so we ended up getting a new producer in there, but mm-hmm. Yeah. It made all the difference in the world to have this veteran, uh, on our side and on mic for that first year.
Amazing. Yeah. So how many years has your podcast been?
Around it is gonna be for the summer. 'cause we started summer of 2015.
Congratulations. Thank you. We are also shocked that you can talk about dogs for that long. It's insane. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I think it's just, uh, because it's, we talk about dogs we met this week and dogs in the news and for what I just, when it's something new or something new, my dog did. Mm-hmm. I'm like, yeah, I think we all still passionately care about this.
Right.
Uh, and for some reason they do. Are you guys, um, doing a special podcast in, um, memoriam of the cutest dog on the planet that just passed?
Sure. No. Here's, uh, we're bummer free. Oh. So yes, we should. Mm-hmm. Uh, but when we have guests on, uh, 'cause that's, that is the tough part. Mm-hmm. Like, dogs don't last as long as we do, but we try to just briefly touch over of just like, and this is, and then I got another dog.
Mm-hmm. Uh, so yeah, for the most part, occasionally we'll tap into it, but for the most part, yeah. Um, I think we really are just an escape for people. So you'll go and you'll listen to your pot Save America and your political stuff, and then it is just campy, uh, when you come to us. So we try not to be like, and then this dead dog.
Uh, so just, they're like, wait, this is my happy place. Sorry.
Exactly. They all go to heaven, I promise. Right, right. So they're fine. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like the dog park of. The world, right? Yes. It's all, they're all up there. Everyone likes each other. Yeah. Once it's finally, it's perfect. Exactly. So how far into your podcast did you
get a dog yourself?
Great question. Okay, so we started in summer of 2015, and then I have a dog, his name is Tugboat. He's adorable. Thank you. Tha Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys gotta meet him. Yes. Um, so yes. Do we? We're all clear. Jordan, your sister is my roommate. Yeah. Uh, and so that's how I know you. Everybody's clear on how I am.
I'm your roommate. How'd to get in
here? No, I did not. I did not address that. Yeah. Um, sure. Um, so yeah, I mean, you should come to my house regardless. Once she's outta here, she'll come over. Um, perfect. This is my pot. I'm just gonna slowly and shorten out of this and yeah. What
I, what?
Hold on. I did not sign off on this.
Turned
on me
no talking. Yeah, keep it Sounds great, Jordan. Good work. Um, so yeah, so I got tugboat August of 2017, so it was two years of being a dog wanter. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then I got mine, uh, a year and a half ago. And how has that been for you? Oh boy. Uh, love of my life. Yeah. Best thing that ever happened to me.
So he is a pit bull mixed with something fluffy. Mm-hmm. So he looks like a pit bull, but he's got, uh, fluffy ears and fluffy elbows and a fluffy tail.
He's the softest dog I've ever pet on record. And I thought my dog was right. So. This is a whole new level of Yeah. How did you make a stepped animal become a real thing?
Exactly. Like, what are, does he get up in
the middle of the night and use a pomade? What happens? Mm-hmm. Because it's so, so good. Yeah. Um, so what I was surprised about is that I knew that I was gonna get a dog that year, uh, but I wanted to just gently start looking just to sort of peruse. But that's not how it works.
As soon as you start looking at pictures, you're like, well, he's mine. That's simply how that's gonna go. So at the time, this app doesn't exist anymore, but it was so great. It was an app called All Dogs, and they used the exact same algorithm and format as dating apps. Yes. So you could just swipe through Yes or no one, I mean, who's gonna swipe?
No one a dog. But you could set your, uh, your little parameters of what you wanted. And so I, I, I set him and then Tugboats picture came up and I was just like, oh, oh, oh, no. And then I got, I went to read his description and it was like, he's never met a person he doesn't love. He will sail into your arms, he'll cover you with kisses.
He's sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet. And I was like, all right. Okay. So I went to go meet him, and at the time I was like. Oh, well, this is divine. Because I walked in, uh, and he ama like sailed into my arms, like running jump, uh mm-hmm. Sailed in my arms. Then we sat down and we sat in my lap. Exactly. And he let me pet him.
So we sit in my lap out of the first 60 seconds. Then we took him on a walk. Uh, in hindsight, there was no squirrels on this walk. Oh, I didn't think of that at the time. Uh, and then at the very end, I like knelt down, had this cute, you know, hallmark moment. I'm like, Hey, buddy, you my dog. And he licked my nose.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I was like, all right, well here you go. Now I know he does that to everybody. Oh, no. Anybody who comes in the house, he will sail into their arms. He will look anybody just a nose. But at the time she was like,
well,
I'm so special. Right. Yeah.
No, he totally, he was listening to you. Right. He answered
Right.
I, I'm totally sure. Yes. Exactly. Uh, so I got him home and the, the very first they told me that he was a jumper. Yeah. Like he jumped up a lot. Uh, and so I read that when he jumps, you just gotta turn your back to him and then that's how they'll go down. So I took him on my very first walk in the morning.
He jumped up and he kind of held on to my waist and I was like, I read a book. I know how to handle this. So I turned around, uh, and then he maintained his hold. Mm-hmm. So now, uh, he's just got his paws on me and then I was like, I don't, he's not getting down like that conga line all of a sudden. Precisely.
Yeah. So at six o'clock in the morning, my neighborhood is having to watch me like, but dog that I dunno how to walk. So, which is like on his side legs, he was walking and it was, it was just so like aggressively holding. I was like, I don't know what to do. Yeah. Um, turns out like it, the time he was just kind of stressed and anxiety of like, don't go anywhere.
Mm-hmm. So now I know that if he like looks back and starts to jump, you just have to kneel down and be like, I got you buddy. Yeah. We're together. We're okay. So if you just spend like 30 seconds with him, we're fine. But I was just like, nah, I'm just gonna turn my back to you. Hope this. Bo sound. Uh, so that was crazy.
And then he was 10 months old, so Oh, oh, everything mm-hmm. Was, uh, chewed up, uh, particularly a MacBook cord, which is 80 bucks a pop. He's always fast. He is good. Uh, and then he's, he's real big on hopping on things. So he was on the table, he was on the counter, he was all over the place. So it was just a, a lot.
He made your apartment of Parkour park. Precisely. Yes. Yes, exactly. Uh, and then added to the mix, I had a roommate at the time mm-hmm. Who was the exact opposite of Jordan, uh, who initially that in that year I was like, Hey, I'm gonna get a dog this year. I know you don't love dogs, so what do you say? Mm-hmm.
We, we go ahead and we, here's six months notice. We'll, part ways. Yeah. Uh, we're good to go. So we started to look for an apartment, but it's expensive. Yeah. In la And so I think we both made a mistake in that Iowa also was having to come to terms with, oh, I'm gonna have to pay rent all by myself. Mm-hmm. He couldn't find a place to live, and so we both were just like, nah, I bet we can muscle through.
Yeah, you can't, he mm-hmm. Doesn't love dogs. So that, that was also challenging to like, whenever he was home, talk about how to be in the room, but he's still a puppy and the barking and, oh, yeah. So it was, it was really, really challenging initially, um, to the point where I was like, I don't know if I can do this.
Mm-hmm. Oh, I don't know if I can do this, but because I have a podcast, there was no turning him back or Right. Um, yeah, and I would like fantasize. I'm like, okay, what if, if I send him. To a plate and a farm, and then like, trying to come up with like these scenarios that would work, but nothing, uh, made sense.
And then, uh, just because of the podcast, I kept him. Mm-hmm. And he's now the love of my life. He is the sweetest dog. He's so great. I don't, I don't know how I ever lived without him. He's the best. No,
that's how, I mean, that's how I feel about my dog. I mean, mine's 15 and we had a similar moment where I looked at him and I'm like, are we really doing this?
Yeah. Are you mine? Yeah. And he looks at me like, mm-hmm. Yeah, I think we're gonna do it. You're gonna need me, so let's go. And it's really been that way. But like, he's one of those, there's some dogs that are like very much a dog. Right, right. And they bound around and they're, they're more of an animal than a human.
Right. And there's other dogs that you're like, no. Like you're thinking and communicating to me right now. Mm-hmm. You are more developed than a toddler. Mm-hmm. You can't just be a dog. Like, something's going on here. Yep. You are reincarnated. I'm like grandpa. Like, who, who, who's in there? Yeah. And like sure.
Like, and Bannon has been that way the whole time I've had him. Right. Like, we were in Germany and I'm like, all right, should we move to California? What's going on? And he looked at me like, I'm like, okay, we're gonna play the game. Mm-hmm. Or I'm gonna ask you questions. Yes. And if your, your silence will be a no.
If you bark, it's a yes. Oh my god. Amazing. Right? I'm playing this game. Yeah. And this is just an example of me not wanting to make my own choice. Of course. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I was like, all right, bandit, should we stay here? Mm-hmm. And like, keep the job I have. Should we move to California? Uh oh. Okay. Thank you.
Great. Yes. Really.
That's a great story. That's amazing.
He really did that. Yes.
Whoa. I
mean, he answered, I mean, he talks a lot anyway. Sure.
Like he's very communicative, but he stayed quiet on the shit that we stay here part. Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. Like you come home and he has an entire conversation of like, this is what happened today.
This was going on. And did you know? And Oh, I've been very bored. Where have you been? I love him. It just goes, yeah. And what kind of dog is he? He's a schnoodle schnauzer poodle mix. Come on.
Okay. Yeah. So he is just
like this really adorable. Usually it's a mohawk.
Like Yeah. That thing that dogs do when they talk and Jordan can testify, uh, TBO will just, uh, 'cause he is a teenager at this point.
Mm-hmm. And he will just talk back to us like, oh yeah, can I, furthermore, and you didn't gimme a skateboard for Christmas. It's just like the Don but it's, um, he'll say it like he's kind of telling y'all a little
bit. We're just like, buddy, you are fine. Oh, Bannon does it too. Yeah. The, I know his tone is like Uhuh, uh.
Mm-hmm. Like I get the, he's like wagging his finger at me when he is talking. Yeah. Versus like, oh, I love you. I'm so excited to see you. Like they're different conversations, right? Yeah. The most direct he's ever been to me is, um, I think he was probably like six at this point or seven. Okay. Um, and it was right before I was moving with him to Germany and I was living at my parents' house.
'cause I had like a month of like getting rid of my apartment and then moving to Europe. So I'm at their house in the interim, I'm talking to my dad, we're having a conversation. He's like barking at me, like I wanna go out. And I'm like, hold on. Right. And he, this went on for like, I wasn't making him wait for hours.
It was like a matter of minutes. He barked again. I'm like, hold on. And I was still talking and he got so pissed. He just walked up and peed on my leg and then looked at me and walked away. And I was like. Oh my God. You wanna play that game? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I was like, huh? And my dad looked at me like He just peed on you.
Yeah. Like he could have peed by the door or like anywhere, and if he was that desperate, but no, he wanted to make a point. Right? He came over and peed on you. That's, I'm like, yeah, he can be a dick. And now I don't like
that you got Pete on, but I do like his chutzpah,
I think. Yeah. Oh, he has plenty of chutzpah.
Like that is not lacking at all. That's nuts. Yeah.
Yeah. It's so sometimes you're just so impressed with him. Yes. Like they've done something wrong, but it's, they're so cute. Or like deliberate about it. You're like, well, let me laugh first and then we'll talk about discipline.
Yeah. He has trained our landlord who lives in the, like we have three units on our property.
Mm-hmm. He has trained our landlord to give him a treat every time he goes to his door. Jordan was telling about that. He goes there and barks and I'm like, I'm like, okay. Yeah. You're the only dog, not the only dog, but not many other dogs to would have the chutzpah Yeah. To start training the entire neighborhood.
Yeah. To be on their command. It's so great. We use WAG a
lot. Mm-hmm. Which that also will save your life. Um, I think your listeners will know WAG is an app, uh, that with a. Press of the button, you can get a dog walker to come help you out. So you'll have a lockbox on your door. They're all certified, they're all, uh, you know, checked out.
Mm-hmm.
And
they can walk your dog. So we have, uh, wag walkers come in periodically, and I got a report last week and I think Jordan heard about it too, of a walker who was like, so we were walking, we have a pet store, it's very close to us. Mm-hmm. Uh, and she was like, and I tried to go the opposite way and he wouldn't, I was not strong enough.
Uh, and he walked her to the pet store to just like right at the front door. And we're just like, yeah, this is where we go, buddy. I know. Exactly. And then he always gets a treat there. Mm-hmm. So he knows what he is doing. Yeah, he is.
There's a great book out. Um, can you google this? Actually, I think it's the, the Inside the Mind of a Dog.
Ooh. It's the first book. Um, it's actually written by a woman. So we should both have her on the exactly Our Equal podcast. Uh, and. She was the first person to study dogs the way anthropologists study other animals. Right. That we don't apply all the humanistic family relations to Oh, cool. So like the way you would study an ape, she started studying dogs and it's one of the first comprehensive studies of like really how they operate and what they do.
Right. And one of the biggest takeaways for me was that dogs know or have studied humans more than humans have studied themselves. So they know when we're leaving they know what our routines are, they know everything. So, wow. Yeah. That's it. So it's called Inside of a Dog What Dogs See, smell, and Know by Alexandra Horowitz.
Huh. It's so good.
That's Yeah, I will a hundred percent. Uh, because he is so cute. There is like, he knows, uh, sit and lay down and shake your hand and roll over. Mm-hmm. But beyond that, there is no training and he's a hundred percent in charge of the entire household. Yeah.
So
I should address that at some point.
No, but like, he knows you, he knows your patterns. He knows your moods. Right. Like it's, that's why like dogs do come over to you when they know you're sad. Yeah. Or if you're sick, they act differently. Yeah. Like, if I am truly ill. Bandit will not be as aggressive about wanting to go out. Look at that.
There's just like, they, they know, they know you. Yeah.
It is. It's incredible. Mm-hmm.
Uh,
yeah. And the, the amount of pouting that happens 45 minutes before I'm about to leave is remarkable. I'm just like, how do you know Van? Oh. 'cause I brush my teeth. All right. You're right. I only do that when I leave the house.
Okay. That's, uh, I guess that is a telltale sign. Yeah, exactly.
So as you were going through all of your amazing careers you've had so far, um, have there been, um, women along the way that have really made an impact in giving you confidence to pursue that path? And like just people who have become mentors for you along the way?
Oh
gosh, that's such a good, yes, of course. Um, let's see, who was my mentor in theme? There was, so when I first, first started out mm-hmm. Uh, in theme parks, uh, I was a, a tour guide for Universal Studios, which is the person who stays on the tram and points out where Jaws is an earthquake and all that stuff.
Mm-hmm. And I was. So, uh, by the book. So they give you a, a full script that's 45 minutes. Um, and I was, uh, at a very type A in my earlier years, just everything that had to be precisely memorized and that was great. And I was early and it was highlighted, and we're gonna do this perfect. And one of my trainers was so good.
First off, her tour was fantastic. Mm-hmm. But she was so good of like, pulling me aside. She's like, yes, this is great. I don't wanna see this. I wanna see your personality. Mm-hmm. And she was just, she was so lovely about it and good. And she was so powerful that I was just like, yeah, I wanna be like, Donna, Donna is the coolest.
Um, so I think, yeah, only like by example, she was doing a great job and then Yeah. Uh, you know, do, do a little pull aside and explain mm-hmm. By the letter isn't always the best way. Yeah. Or if it is, then let's also allow some adjustments so that it, so that's fun for you and fun for the guests. So I would say Donna and theme parks by, by the time I did shows.
I'm trying to think. I mean, there's always been so many great ladies there. Yeah. Uh, so then I graduated hosting the Animal Actor Show. Uh, and there were so many amazing female dog trainers mm-hmm. Who were just incredible. And at that point they don't use 'em anymore, but they had chimpanzees, uh, which are dangerous.
Oh yeah. Yeah. They, they're a lot. Um, the, that these women would just like completely command it and it would be sort of a. Occasionally scary scenario. 'cause when they get mad, you don't have a lot of time to like think 'cause it's gonna get bad real fast. Mm-hmm. But they were so brave and they knew exactly how, how to handle it, and they jumped into action.
And it, it just, yeah. I think the bravery there, I don't know that I copied 'em. I hid so, uh, I didn't really, uh, you know, follow suit or, but I was inspired Yeah. By how brave they were. Um, and then, yeah, Broadway, uh, so many Broadway stars that are mm-hmm. Um, incredible. Uh, Stephanie J Block is amazing. Um, she was, I guess she was my only friend that I knew personally.
Yeah. But she's just, she's incredible. And the biggest thing with her is that it's hard to get parts and it's hard to, uh, demand things mm-hmm. When it's such a competitive market. But she wouldn't, she would demand things for her and she would demand things for the rest of the cast. She would demand stuff for the audience just to like, she was so committed to making it the best show.
Mm-hmm.
And
so that was, uh, great. Um, let's see, and then training. Yes. So the first gym I worked for out here was, it was all Ladies' gym. Um, and our, uh, the owner of the gym was Holly, and she was just, she was such a badass athlete. Mm-hmm. She was so like, uh, CrossFit was what we were doing. Yeah. And so she can do this, uh, this move called a muscle up.
So it is from hanging from a bar. Yes. You do a pull up and then you reverse it and you push yourself all the way up to where Oh yeah. Your arms are straight on the bar. It is. So much strength is required.
That's the move you need to do if you're a spy and you need to get yourself onto a roof. Yes, exactly.
That's the exact one that's
on
my list of like, how do I
get that warrior skill? Right, right, right. How do I move it? Uh, and then she could also do it on rings. She was just, she was incredible and super competitive, uh, in the world, but then would also like take the time with people who couldn't do.
Anything. Mm-hmm. And treat it like, yeah, of course you don't know this. So I liked the patience of that and then what I learned from her, because as a trainer, I was real big on like, listen man, we're all doing our best. Do we need results? I mean, do we? So I think, uh, I was a little too lenient. I was good with the self love, but I wasn't great at getting results.
And she just had this perfect balance between like, uh, let's be gentle, but then let's really push you. Mm-hmm. Um, and then podcasting Got, uh, so many women in podcasting. G. Isn't that funny? When you have so many people that you look up to you just like, well, who, who specifically? Um, I would say probably Karen Kilgar.
I was straying from that because I didn't, it's not my favorite murder. Yeah. Which I do not listen to. Uh, she does, do you need a ride? Mm-hmm. Uh, with Chris Fairbanks. And that's just a show about them driving around and her ability to give him the spotlight, but then also get just as many jokes in as she does, is remarkable.
Yeah. So I would say Karen was my, uh, podcasting guru.
Awesome. Yeah. That was a lot of answers. No, that was great. And you sat through it like a champ? No, that's, I'm just like here, like fascinating. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. And then who else? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's perfect. Um, as you've gone through your journey up to this point, um, how have you dealt with like days when you're like, this is awful.
I'm awful, this will never work. And days when you're like, yes, we're doing it. This is awesome. Yeah. Like, what has that flow been like for you and how do you. Where, where's your ideal state to be in that swing of things? Right.
Uh, so I, I can be very, um, I guess, uh, vulnerable to the, this is awful and I can't do it.
Mm-hmm. 'cause I think it means something there. Uh, there's a book called Mindset, which I'm sure you've read about the, um, the two basically mindsets that we have. You can either have a growth mindset or you can have a fixed mindset. Mm-hmm. So the fixed mindset is, uh, these are the talents we've been given, and that's just where it's mm-hmm.
The
growth mindset is like you have to fail so much and anybody who you look up to failed a lot Yeah. To get there. Uh, and I didn't care for that book 'cause boy did it reveal that I have the fixed mindset where I'm just like, well, I did bad today. I guess it's over so that I'm working through it, but I haven't mastered it.
Yep. I, uh, I've mastered how. Bad, the pendulum swings. 'cause it used to be like, oh, I'm changing careers completely. Mm-hmm. And now it's just like, well maybe I need to move within Yeah. This, this industry. Um, so yeah. So those are the bad days are, uh, being convinced that I shouldn't be doing it. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then the super good days.
Equally, uh, ridiculous. And then I'm like, well, I guess I'm at the top the best there is, and I'm kind of available to believe that I'm, I'm as good as it gets on those days. And then the next day it'll knock me, knock me back down. Yeah.
I'm just, you're just waiting for the, the Oscars to add podcast scene.
Right? Exactly. I got this. Yeah. I totally got this.
Yeah. More so though, I will, uh, I'll listen to somebody who's, who's truly, truly great. Mm-hmm. And then my brain will do this weird thing where I'm like, well, I'm just as good as them, which is true. Well, sure. I, I do agree that everybody's worthy of the same thing.
Mm-hmm. Um, but I occasionally can get a little too, uh, big from a britches in far as like, yeah, I can do that.
Well, I think there's like that really magical balance of knowing that like anyone can have any of it, right? Yes. Like we're all equals and that we all have the same, truly have the same innate abilities to get what we want out of life.
Right. And then there's that magical combination, right. Of. Working your ass off. Mm-hmm. And doing it even though it's scary and you keep doing it, and then like you keep pushing yourself. Like you, I think that's where the universe meets you halfway apart. Right? Like, you're like, okay, I'm gonna work my ass off and it's gonna suck.
It's like studying for an exam. Yeah. How, how much? Saying yes to everything that's gonna suck but still gets you there. And then it looks so easy on the other side. Right. Where you're like, you must have been born with this. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't have this gift. And you're what? There's no gift. Like there's no gift.
Exactly. No, they just worked really hard. It's like getting a six pack. You're like, you must be born with it. Yeah. I'm pretty sure gift. I'll never have that. A hundred percent. And
some people do have a, a bit of an edge. Yes. Like maybe you just have, you know, uh, more muscles. Nobody has more muscles, but like a muscle mass.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um. So, okay. But for the most part, everybody can get wherever they wanna go. Mm-hmm. If they can just keep pushing.
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of the muscle mass, there's an amazing book called The Sports Gene. Mm-hmm. I don't know if you've heard it. It's actually a really good audio book too. Oh, cool.
But they're talking all about, um, that genetically people are different. Mm-hmm. And how, um, like where, why do sprinters all come from the same place? Right. White do long distance runners. Like what's the difference between people who work their ass off Right. And train 24 7. Versus someone who can just show up and do it.
Yeah. And how does that work? It's a fascinating book. That's
amazing. Okay. Yeah. I'll
check
it out.
Because there's an element of like use, like I suddenly became curious with like, oh, well what are, what's my genetic athleticism? Yeah. That one, um, Jordan found it. She's got it. It's, here's the book Sports Gene by David Epstein.
Oh, great.
Okay.
Um, I think he is also the guy that does the science of sport that ESPN does. Oh cool. Sometimes. Okay. Um, but it left me wanting to know like what was my sport gen profile? 'cause I've been like an athlete. I was an athlete more than I am right now, but I've always been one. Right. And um, it also left me like really curious 'cause I am, have an addiction to anthropology and cultures and like
cool.
How things just are the way they are. Whether you want. Them to be that way or not. Right. Right. Um, and so it opened all that stuff up to now I, every time I see an athlete, I'm like, works hard or genetics. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How'd you get here?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Completely. Exactly. Completely. Yes. Uh, I agree. Uh, but I think to our point, uh, before that, it's like you can get there.
Mm-hmm. Will you have to work a lot harder than some people maybe. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you can't get there, so,
no, of course not. And, and just like you said with your podcast, there's, you said yes. Mm-hmm. It seems ridiculous. You're like, okay. And then all this stuff showed up where you're like, wait a second.
Yeah. How can I just say yes and like I just have this happen. Right. And sometimes that's the way it works
too. Yeah, exactly. And sometimes you say yes and you put in all the work and it doesn't work out. Yeah. But I think in the big scheme of things, it does balance. Mm-hmm. Out pretty well.
We did, um, a manifesting class a couple weeks ago that Powerful Ladies hosted, and we partnered with the woman who, um, has a doTERRA business.
Cool. So we did, like, I did the manifesting course and she did the oils part, and part of the manifesting, uh, course was a worksheet of two columns and it just says Love or lesson. Cool. And it's a reflection for the past year. So that. There is nothing bad. Mm-hmm. Everything's either a love or lesson.
I love that.
And it's interesting to see how people categorize things and like what list was getting bigger or longer for other people.
Yeah.
Because the secret to this whole worksheet mm-hmm. Is that at the end of the day, they might all be the same column. Look at that. It just doesn't feel that way in the moment because you're like, this isn't what love should feel like.
Right. And you're like, hold on. Sometimes love tells you like, this is not a good idea. Mm-hmm. Sometimes love is, I'm sorry, but you have to go on the treadmill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. It's, it's not always like. It's not always like, you're amazing, keep going. Right. Sometimes it's the hard conversations that actually are totally the biggest love.
Completely. Uh, I think, uh, anecdotally when I was in New York, I was in a relationship and a really bad breakup sent me back to la. Mm-hmm. So eight years ago I would've been like, bad, bad, bad lesson. It was a lesson. Uh, and now thank God that was the best thing that could have possibly happened to me, to, uh, to get me back here so I could do what I love to do.
Are you from LA originally? Not originally. I'm originally from Colorado Springs. Nice. Have you been beautiful? Yes. Okay. I, I used to
live, we, uh, lived outside of Denver Yes. As a family. Yes.
Right. I knew that. Mm. Uh, yeah. It was gorgeous. Mm-hmm. Um, Colorado Springs a bit conservative. Yeah. We're a little bit conservative.
City. So that's my note for it. Yeah. But as far as Air force, right? Yeah. Force. So lots of military, lots of, yeah. Right. Focus on the family. Mm-hmm. Lot of, lot of religion. Uh, and so, so that, but, but, uh, but the beauty is that we've got Pike's Peak and Garden of the Gods and Seven Falls and it's just kissing camels.
Mm-hmm. Exactly. Uh, so just really, really pretty. And it's so nice to go back to that. Uh, and my entire family's still there, my mom and my dad and my brother. So it's nice that it's one stop shop. Yeah. For the holidays.
That is so nice. Yeah, that's what I wish. Um, like so, um, my family, our family, Jordan's, my sister, um.
Sh like we've moved so much that we don't have a one-stop shop. Mm-hmm. And I'm so thankful for social media because I would not be in touch with half the people that I've ever interacted with in my life. Right. If it didn't exist. So I value it from that perspective. Yeah. Um, but it also makes like choosing your life path a bit trickier.
'cause you're like, well, it doesn't matter where I choose. 'cause can't rely on them to stay there. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like we don't have like the home base feeling. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. That makes, uh, I can't imagine that that does make, since we have a super small family and my brother, uh, went to school out in San Diego.
Mm-hmm. So part of me was just like, get out here, let's move 'em all out here. Yeah. Uh, but he ended up going back, so. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, I bet there's good and bad things that I'm always having to go to Colorado Springs, but if you have a family that
moves, you get to see different places. For sure. I, we've, uh, had a great life.
It's been, I'm really happy that, yeah. We moved a lot as, uh, kids. Um, when I, we first moved to Colorado, I was. It was my freshman year of college. Okay. And when we moved out, my um, best friend from college and I went and helped in the move. Oh, cool. We drove one of the cars and followed the family out, helped them get set up.
It was our spring break, so super glamorous spring break. Yeah. You guys, you win all the awards for that. Don't be jealous Girls Gun Wild moving the family. Yeah.
Oh, please let there be a girls gun. Wow. There's just two ladies moving and kind of grumpy about it.
It didn't sell great. It didn't do super well.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nope. And um, but when we were there, I remember going out to dinner one night and what I thought was someone my age walked in. Right. And then like four kids followed behind him and then a wife and I was like. Okay, hold on. Yeah. What is it about the high altitude and what Colorado is? Mm-hmm.
That that person looks like they should be maybe 20. Mm-hmm. But they have four kids and they're married and they're super fit and probably 40. Yeah. Based on how old all their kids are. Right. Even if they started at 12. And I'm like, what? Like, and I just kept seeing that show up for me. Like there's, um, just how everyone like to be outside.
They seem to live a healthier lifestyle. Mm-hmm. Seem to be happier. Seem to just have more of this balance. And I'm like, why? Like there's something special about Colorado, I think gives access to that for people. Yeah. Uh, and I find it mystifying, so I hope someday that someone does a study about it to, to back up my visual findings.
Certainly. Yeah.
No, you're, you're right. We're all outside. I think some people have hypothesized that it's all the mountains. That that just is, uh, metaphorically a foundation, uh, that just kind of grounds people and lets them prioritize. It's also, there's not a lot of other options, uh, like, well, do we wanna go outside or.
Not go outside. It's kind of the, the, uh, the things that you can do on a weekend Uhhuh. So, so that helps a bit. Yeah. Yeah.
And that, that you're speaking outside into, like, outside into nature, right? Not like we're locked in our house or not locked in our house.
Precisely, yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
That's cool. I always forget that you guys lived in Colorado for a little bit. That's awesome. Yeah,
no, it was a great time. Like that would've been a place where we've been happy to make the family home base. Right. 'cause it was so beautiful and I loved that you could have. Snow and weather, but it wasn't as cold as Boston is and yeah, like there was so much sunshine, which makes made a big difference.
Mm-hmm. So I have some friends that are living in Boulder right now or just outside. Um, and I went there to go to um, or Oh cool. Or outdoor retailer or now I think it's called something else. The big trade show.
Okay.
And it's where everyone goes to see the new tech gear and a bunch of the apparel and footwear brands that I've worked with also showcased there.
Yeah. And so I went last January and it was amazing. 'cause there's so many developments in people who are doing the tiny home and the all in one camper, like your vans and they're all this new gear. Mm-hmm. Like there are phone cases that protect your phone from freezing so you can go snowboarding and not what, like have your battery run out.
That's awesome. And I'm like, this is so niche and so cool. Mm-hmm. Like I wish mm-hmm. More general public went to check everything out there. Yeah.
Yeah. It's great. And it, you're right, it is, it is niche and there's a lot of stuff there like where, what Colorado would I use this? Mm-hmm. But it's cool. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. I like
what have been, um, like defining moments in your life that have, uh, let you see how powerful and capable you are?
Ooh, good question. I, they're gonna be small, but I was just like, oh, okay. Uh, this isn't the result of it. It's just the feeling of it. Mm-hmm. The trusting your gut. So my seat, now granted, we just talked about how, I'm from Colorado, so I'm gonna say some big things and you're gonna be like, but it was Colorado.
So, uh, my senior year, uh, in high school, they have a, um, a statewide thespian award. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that in and of itself is dorky, but the amount of scholarship you get is, is significant. Mm-hmm. So I. Was on the fence about doing it. 'cause I didn't think I was good enough. Uh, and I was like, I don't know if I should.
And then the, there's just tiny little voice that popped up in my head. It was like, when you see the girl that did win and you think you can do it, you're gonna be mad. Yeah. It was just that, that was it. That was all that it was. Yeah. Uh, so I, uh, I did it. I competed. There's so many, so many kids, uh, that went and, and for some reason I won.
So I was, uh, amazing. Yeah. The, the number one, uh. Theater person in Colorado and all that scholarship money came with it. And so that was good in that I, now granted it was Colorado, so that's important, but I think I was like, oh, I'm a, you know, I'm a little fish in a, a little pond, and so that's, that's why I think I'm good at this, but once you add me to like the rest of the state, there's no way I can compete.
So it was nice to be like, no, you can hold your own Yeah. In a statewide competition, but mostly is to listen to that voice. Mm-hmm. Of just like, you're gonna be mad. You are gonna be mad. And it's weird that that would be the reason to get you to do something, but sometimes that's what it takes. Yeah. Just that, that consequence, um, was real big.
And that served a few other, I would say that was the same for podcasting. Mm-hmm. Of, uh, if somebody else does a dog podcast, you're gonna be mad. You're gonna be mad. Uh, so it does, it just, it helps. I would, um, I guess defining maybe, yeah, no defining and a, a good life lesson that mm-hmm. Keeps reoccurring for me of the, you're gonna be mad if you don't.
Uh, 'cause there's been plenty of things that I didn't go for and I was mad. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Well, I think it speaks to like the, the level of like, competitiveness that you have for yourself and what you're up to. Mm-hmm.
And
it shows up differently for everyone. 'cause I think, I think everyone's innately competitive.
It's something Yes. It just, it's the scale. Right? Right. It's a scale of where you stand on it. And the other part too is that they always say at the end of life, it's. What did you regret mm-hmm. That you didn't do? Yes. You're not mad about what you did
ever.
Right. So, yeah. So when you're sitting there being like, should I do this or not do this?
Mm-hmm.
Like,
I remember, uh, one of my best friends from college, she had an amazing job for a while at ES espn Right. As a producer or assistant producer, and she got invited by a bunch of, I think NFL players that were on the show
Okay.
To go to Jay-Z's, um, club that was opening in New York, which I think was the 3 33 club.
Okay, cool. I could be totally blowing the name of this, but it was years ago. Okay. And. She didn't wanna go 'cause she didn't feel comfortable going by herself and couldn't find a friend to go with her. And she's like, I'm not getting in a limo with a bunch of people I just met. Sure. Yeah. And I remember she told all of us girlfriends and, oh, the 40 40 club.
I remember exactly numbers. Ew. We knew it was
something like that. Yeah,
it was
close. Sorry,
sorry. JayZ. So now you're gonna hear from him the
email you're about to get from Jay-Z. Woo.
Bring it, bring it on. Yeah. He gave be my, my, uh, ticket to getting Beyonce on the show. Exactly. Perfect. Uh, so she didn't go and she told all of us about it and it was like the new hottest thing.
And we were like, dude, what? Yeah. I'm like, if you get invited to the 40 40 club Yeah. This is metaphor, but if you get invited, yeah. You go by professional athletes. You go. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying go and put your life in danger like you find someone, right. Like you go through your book like you could've called us like at the time I think I was in Boston, I was like, I would've taken the train down.
Yeah. We could've gone. Yeah. But like you have to say yes to these ridiculous things that fall in your lap. Right. And, and again, this is a silly analogy, but
No, but it's true. 'cause you're not gonna remember the nights that you stayed home ever. No. You will never remember those. But the nights that you went out and did something, you will Yeah.
Whether it was good or a bad memory, it got something to say about the night. So Yes. I think that's good.
Well, yeah. And I think too, like part of the how powerful ladies started was when I was living in Germany, there was a group of us five that were British and American girls that just became super close.
Oh, cool. And we called ourselves the fancy FRAs. Yeah. And um, whenever I'm doubting myself or I'm doing something, I hear like the fancy frail voice and the 40 40 club voice be like. You should do it. Yep. Who's gonna be mad at you? Mm-hmm. You can't do this. And like, it's, it, it's like you're gonna be mad or they're gonna be mad.
Yeah. And you're like, shit, I'm doing it. Yeah. That's why I felt like silly things, like being on a a, uh, I went on an Ireland trip by myself and I did this like bar hopping tour that they gave. So it's like, I cannot go another night, like having dinner by myself. Right. And they're like, oh, there's a mechanical bull.
I'm like, that's dumb. And then I was like, that is not being a fancy frow. Like, just go and do it. Like go do it and own it. Yeah. And that's what we did. Right. And it was fine. Great. It's fun, right? Mechanical balls are fun, right? It's like, why are we saying too cool or no? Right? Like, just stop. Just go. Just have a
good time.
Yes. I, uh, now granted, this isn't a life changing, well, I guess it's sort of life changing. Uh, Jordan is thinking about getting a dog. Yes. Uh, and so this was a groovy reason to do it, but there was a dog that she was interested in, and this is cheesy, but it serves me so well, is to like, really check in with your physiology, Uhhuh.
Uh, and so you ask yourself the question, it's not cheesy, it's real. Okay, good. Yes, I agree. Uh, so you ask yourself the question, should I do it? Mm-hmm. And then you think about, yes. And you just check in with how your body feels. Mm-hmm. And then you think about, no. And you check in with how your body feels.
Whichever one made you feel like kind of clinched and tight. Right. Don't do that one. Mm-hmm. In which everyone made you feel open. Even if the open is like nervous. Yeah. And oh God, uh, that's what you should do. Your body will tell you if you just listen.
Well, so often when people are talking about a decision that they're trying to make or they're stuck, they're like, I don't know.
I don't know. Mm-hmm. And I'm, in my mind, I'm like. You do, you do
know you're scared, but you do know. Yeah. Or
you either don't like the answer, you know? Yes. Or you're not listening. Yeah. Or you're not taking the second to check in. Mm-hmm. Like there's, there's, you have the ability to know, right. Like, stop the, I don't know.
So I don't wanna make a decision cycle. Yep. Uhuh. Yep. And you can always change your mind.
Uh, yes.
Like it blows my mind how often people get stopped to do something because they're like, well, what if I don't like it? Yeah. You stop. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I've heard people who have taken a job and quit the same day.
Of course. Yeah. It just didn't hit, it didn't work. And that's right.
Right. But it is so true. It's very bizarre how I have just so many years of experience that nothing lasts. In fact, everything I've done has not lasted, and yet any decision I make going forward specifically for jobs, I'm like, well, this is my sentence for the rest of my life.
I have no evidence. I have no evidence. Yeah, you have the contrary evidence. Exactly. So go for it and know that it won't last forever. Mm-hmm. And it'll lead to something else. Yeah. But for some reason, when you're sitting in it, it's just, for me, it's fear. It's always, I don't know what's gonna happen. And so I was like, well, I guess I'll just not do anything, which is a terrible option.
Right. And you are certainly not someone who's not doing anything right? If you have like, like what are you up to? Like, um, hold on, let me get my scroll. Sure,
sure, sure.
Yeah, it's a, I like a lot of things. Um, but it also, I think also scared. I think people with a lot of things are also really scared. It can either mean two things, one's that's your personality and you're into everything can also mean like, oh, I can't commit to anything uhhuh.
I'm not sure which
one I
wanna do. So yeah. So there's good and bad to both.
What are things that you're taking on for 2019 that you're excited about? Oh, great question. I
have really tried to not lean into resolutions mm-hmm. This year, just because they always fall through. Mm-hmm. So it is very, very practical things.
Uh, I want a full-time job. Under a theory. I can't promise that this will work out for me, but under a theory that right now I just freelance. Yeah. And I'm such an extrovert that it is not good for me. Uh, poor Jordan just gets, as soon as she comes in the door, I'm like somebody to talk to. I love it. I love it.
Uh, but to get some sort of like accountability job mm-hmm. Uh, a nine to five in that anytime I have been super, super busy. Well, of course if you're busy, a lot of the stuff gets done. But so much more gets done if I have a lot of things going on. Yep. Nothing gets done if I don't. Mm-hmm. So, uh, a full-time job, uh, check.
Um, I would like to, uh, this is lofty 'cause uh, as of now we have no training. But I would like to, uh, get tugboat his, um, good citizenship award because once he has that, yeah. He can be a therapy dog. And I would like that to be my philanthropic Yeah. Bed division to give back. Yeah. Namely. 'cause if you go to Google and you put therapy dogs, oh.
The photos you will see of nursing homes and children's hospitals, you're just like, mm. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's good. No,
it's,
yeah.
Yeah. And it, and it makes me, um, there's an element of humor to me mm-hmm. In that a dog needs to be trained Right. To love in those situations. Yeah. Like, I understand if you're like, oh no, this has been a guard dog of a, um, dump or what is it called?
Like a, when they a dump? Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. They have dog a, a yard dog. There we go. It's a technical term. Yes. So they're, they're the guard dogs. So like, yeah, maybe we're not gonna bring that dog into a kindergarten if he hasn't been trained. But 99% of all the other dogs, if you brought them to a nursing home.
It's gonna be the most magical day ever. Great. The thing we'll have to work with,
tugboat is less friendly. You gotta back it off a bit. Uh, 'cause he will be in the lap of every wheelchair. Uh, and they may be like, that's a lot. He's like a 200
pound dog and like a 90-year-old, like,
frail woman. Woman. She's just like, okay, I think my hip broke.
Exactly. No, dog. You're so sweet. But I can feel my legs. Exactly. Exactly.
Um, so yeah, because I, the thing that I will forget when I'm down is you have to give back. Uh, yeah. In that, uh, I can just be like, well, I, I don't have time to help you. I gotta help me. Mm-hmm. But then it's that juxtaposition of like Yeah.
But help you will eventually help me. Yes. Uh, so tbo, I'd like to, uh, create another podcast. Uh, just 'cause I love them. Mm-hmm. So I'd like to have a podcast of my own and then. Is there anything else? No. Travel. Yeah, I'd like to, yeah, go on vacation a lot, but it's basic. So a job, train my dog a podcast and travel.
Those sound like big
ticket
items,
so I'm not sure if I would use the word basic. Yeah. I'm like, I dunno that those always sound like pretty significant moves that are, they're good, right? Yeah, it's a good list. Thank you. Like, that's a list of like, things that are tangible and meaty and you're, when you get them, you're like, yes, I did it.
I
can check it off the list. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, because some of the, some of the resolutions that we set for ourself. They're not even for us. Really. Mm-hmm. They're to satisfy other people or other people's image of us or Yeah. Like do you really want it? Right. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why most don't work 'cause you really don't want it.
Yeah. Like, do you wanna give up cupcakes? Right. No, of course you don't.
Of
course you don't. Yes.
No one says that. And it's always a symptom of just like giving up cupcakes is actually just, I wanna feel better about myself. Yeah. So why don't we put the time into feeling better about yourself. Yes. Let you have the cupcake every now and again.
Yeah. Or daily. If you're me,
it's okay. I had a friend once who I was giving a hard time about quitting smoking and they're like, listen, if you want me to commit to never having a cigarette again, will you commit to never having a cupcake again? Mm-hmm. I was like,
Ooh. Yeah. Okay.
Well they both could kill us.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just waiting for the sugar to become as talked about as nicotine and, uh, all the bad stuff in cigarettes are
Right.
And I was like, damn it. I'm like, well, I could definitely cut back Yes. If I knew it was imminent death. Right. Like a cupcake. If you have it, there's ways to like balance it out and work around it.
Right. Cigarette, I don't, you can't like go to the gym and lose the cigarette. Yeah. There's not enough kale to kind of
scrub those lungs cream. Yeah.
No, no, no. So, but it was a very interesting perspective of like, what are you really giving up?
Yeah. It's, and it's tough. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then there's also, 'cause boy have I tried to, uh, be like, I will muscle through this for you.
Yeah. We'll change, uh, and including myself and nobody changes unless they want to. Mm-hmm. So even if you did give up cupcakes, it wouldn't necessarily mean your buddy would because they haven't decided that it's important.
No, for sure. And, and, and I, I really do believe also that when you're out playing a game that's bigger than you mm-hmm.
Like if you, you know, focusing on getting tugboat ready to give back to others. Right. It changes so much.
Yeah.
How you're looking at things. What, what's available to you? 'cause it's not about you anymore. We spend so much time stuck on us. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, like I am, me, to me is very boring. Right? Right.
Yes. Like, why, why am I being like, like neurotic about this when it's like, no, like I'm boring. Let's go and engage with other people that are
amazing. I eager said yes. Yes. To you saying you're boring. I just wanna clarify there, uh, I was thinking of myself. I feel the exact same way. You were a delight and very engaging and charming.
Uh, but I, yeah, everybody has that just like. Ah, too much me. Let's go outside and then
you feel better every time. There's a book called The Geography of Bliss. Hmm. Where a guy went around the world and studied different cultures to figure out why are people happier in certain places than others. And he also went to the places where people rate really low in happiness and satisfaction.
Yeah. And the. One of the trends for the countries where people are the happiest, like places like Bhutan and Nepal, right? Is that they spend less time thinking. Hmm. Yeah. Because when you start thinking and going down the rabbit hole of what's in my head mm-hmm. Which is usually a bunch of nonsense because our ego is so good at all sorts of ways to beat ourselves up,
right.
And create doubt and make up stories about things that aren't real with other people and relationships. And you name it,
right?
Like if you wanna figure, if you want an answer as to why your boss doesn't like you, it'll take three seconds to figure out 80 options. Right. But if you ask yourself like, what am I great at?
Yeah. It's like 10 minutes. You're like, I've got three things I maybe you found that? Yeah. Yes. It's crazy. It's crazy how that works. Mm-hmm. One of their, the big lesson was like, stop thinking. Yeah. Go be in action. Go do something. Go for a run. Go help people work more. Like stop it. Yeah. Like all you westerners that have all this freedom.
Mm-hmm. Because you've so luxurious in being taken care of. Like, stop it. Yeah. Like you've bored yourself into neuro Yeah. A hundred percent. Yes. I agree with that completely. Mm-hmm. That's good advice, not mine. So, thank you. Geography of voice. Don't do, like I gave you credit. So in the, in the podcast we've been asking everybody like, where do you stand on the powerful ladies scale?
Ooh. So if a one is feeling like a human and a 10 is feeling like a powerful lady, how do you feel today? How do you feel on most days?
Ooh, good question.
Um,
today, five. And then it will, it'll swing from three to seven. Yeah. Uh, I've never hit 10. I've never hit one. Uh, so I maybe hit two back in 2016. Um, yeah.
Uh, but yeah, I would say right at a five, I'm proud of what I've done. Mm-hmm. And I know that I can do so much more. Mm-hmm. So I think that's sort of where it lands.
What would be your, like if all the women listening right now are, I'm just gonna imagine that they're like. High school kids and their full hope and what's next?
And I have no idea what's going on. Could be someone who's also 45. 'cause we know that's how it works. Sure. It never changes the conversation, but what would you, what would you say to them and what advice would you give?
Um, yeah. Okay. We'll go with 18. And this was, I, I'll use this, uh, as an anecdote as well, but go.
Full out. I know there's that, um, Mary something quote about like, playing small serves no one. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, I have, I started around 18, would get super small in my performance, in my, uh, whatever I was doing. And just real bashful because going big would embarrass me and it would embarrass other people.
But then, uh, I recently started writing shows mm-hmm. Uh, for theme parks and I got to watch the, uh, rehearsal process and the kids who were just like, I, I don't know, I don't quite have it figured out yet. I was like, buddy, fucking show me what we're gonna do. 'cause otherwise I don't know what you're capable of.
Yeah. So I would like show people what you're capable of, uh, and know that that'll land better than being humble. Mm-hmm.
Which is a lesson
I'm still learning. Uh, 'cause I'm still like, ah, simply self-deprecation will lead with that. But it doesn't, people like, of course you can be conceited, but, uh, I think for the most part, you just gotta show people what you got and be confident.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Well, and there's the idea of like, just like living full out, like mm-hmm. It's when you're around people who, not that they don't give a fuck, but like, they just, they're not so worried about how they're gonna show up. Yeah. And they're just like, there. Yep. Like there's the, the energy exchange is so different Yeah.
Than people who are like closing yourself up and crossing your arms and like, no, don't look at me. And it's like, no, you're here, you're in the room. Like, yeah. I need you to show up so we can all show up. Gimme everything you got. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think, 'cause we can all cite somebody who is just like, well, I don't wanna be like that person who was a showboat and just mm-hmm.
So crazy. Then I will argue, and this is groovy, but what you picked up on is not their showboat ness. You picked up on their insecurity. Mm-hmm. They don't believe in themselves either. Yeah. They're just showing it in a different way. Yes. So be the person who accepts exactly who you are and you'll never go wrong,
I think.
Yeah. No. You said it better. Like, I love speeches, like Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Job. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, I think it will, that's gonna be my lesson for life. Uh, that's the one I'm gonna have to learn over and over and over again of like, go big. You gotta go big. Um, but, and I think that's, I also, that's okay that if you set out to go big and then you find yourself at a party and you're, like I said, nothing, uh, and you're going home and you're feeling bad about yourself.
Yeah. But you'll do better next time. Yeah. And it's okay if you don't, but try to make that your goal.
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the two laws live in existence together of go big and give yourself grace. Like, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't give ourselves enough grace at all. Right. And a, a reoccurring theme on the podcast have really been about giving yourself patience and grace.
And when you're playing full out, it gives people access to support you and encourage you. Mm-hmm. Like, you can't have your dreams locked up in a notebook somewhere. Right. Like they, they, they don't have room to breathe. Yeah. Like they have to live out here. Gotta get 'em out of there. Yeah. There's so many people in your path that will allow them to come to life in ways you never thought were possible.
Right. I mean, your podcast is a great example, like you just said. Yes. Yeah. And suddenly this whole world got created in front of you and you're like, okay, okay. There we go. I guess let's go. You're in charge. You're like, wait, what? Exactly. Exactly. What are, what are routines that you put
in place to be at your best?
Oh. That this is something I gotta work on, um, without accountability from other people. Mm-hmm. I have no routine. Mm-hmm. Whatever. Uh, this, the way I'm gonna answer this question is what not to do. Yeah. Um, I also, as we're talking about, like, I read this book and I read this book and I read this book, I can be real big on convincing myself, I don't know how to do this.
Mm-hmm. I wanna start my own podcast, but I'm not quite sure how, uh, I wanna get a job, but I'm not quite sure how. So then I will spend a good portion of the day watching YouTube tutorials or reading a self-help book or like all this stuff that. Is just an excuse to not actually work on the actual thing.
Yeah. So, um. Yeah. As of right now, a routine that doesn't work is look up how to do it. You know how to do it. Yeah. Just go do it. Uh, but on the days that I'm good, uh, working out early in the morning mm-hmm. Helps a lot. Um, meditating helps out a lot. Playing with the dog helps out a lot. Yeah.
Um,
and then, and then, yeah.
So long as you're working on your own stuff, being super supportive of other friends mm-hmm. Um, can be, can be a good routine to, to get into.
So there's of course, lots of myth and story about what the culture is like when you're in LA and, you know, there's so many people that are creating things and performing and there's obviously a lot of competition.
Mm-hmm. When you're, everyone's masked right here together. Yeah. Um, what has it been like, um, finding really meaningful friendships here and being a fellow creative in that space? Gr Yeah.
Um, you know what's so funny is that the ones that you don't have to try yet, or just the ones that you need. Mm-hmm. So I think that was a lesson if I could learn anything, uh, if somebody's really trying to be friends with you, but you're not vibing on.
You don't need to entertain that. Mm-hmm. Uh, equally if you were just hand it to, I'm making the gesture of a dog begging. But if you're doing that to someone and it's just constantly met with, oh, I can't this week, or I won't, just don't. Mm-hmm. Let it, let it sit. Maybe it'll come back around. But the ones that just kind of land softly, it's how you find your friends.
Mm-hmm. And they, and they're there. Yeah. Uh, you just have to, I guess, recognize it when it's easy, recognize it and nurture it. Mm-hmm. Is what I would say. Um, and almost always it's, uh, we have kind of. Uh, like interest in ethics and moral mm-hmm. Morals and stuff like that, which helps obviously for sure.
Yeah. So you, you moved back here to be a personal trainer. Was that something that you were into before or was it a, a totally new thing that came out of nowhere that you're like That's it.
Yeah, so when I was in New York, we, my day I didn't have anything until seven 30 'cause the show was at eight. Mm-hmm.
So I have no accountability all day long. And so it was mainly just to fill up mid days. Yeah. And then New York, uh, there's a gym called Equinox. Yeah. And they have a training program. So I went through that. I got certified and then coming back really, I knew that I would be a personal trainer for money, but it wasn't to be a.
Trainer. It was, uh, I guess maybe a little bit because the weather's nicer, but it was the weather and running away from a breakup and then immediately started at this woman's gym. Mm-hmm. And then that felt, uh, nice and on purpose and like, okay, yeah, this is great. And you can work out outside year long.
Yeah. So that was good.
That's definitely a benefit here. Yeah. Like having grown up and spent so much time in full seasons, full winters. It's just so nice everybody to wake up and choose. Mm-hmm. Like anything on the menu is available. Yeah. And it's, it's a game changer. It's great. And you got big into running, right?
You were running specific trainers? Yes.
Uh, so I was running before, I guess I started running 2000 6 0 7. Um. And it, it is, it is never that weirdly has never been physical. Mm-hmm. Uh, or like weight loss regime. It's just, uh, mental health. Yep. Because it, it forces you to breathe. Uh, I cannot run in a gym.
It's always outside. Mm-hmm. Um, and that was another thing that was really interesting about New York. I grew up in Colorado, so I should have put this together, but I was losing my mind for Earth. Yes. And I know that that's groovy. No, but it would be, it would be negative two degrees and I would still go to Central Park just 'cause I needed trees.
Yeah. And I didn't thrive in a concrete jungle. Um, so yeah, so I started running in 2007. Uh, and then I, there, I certainly had points where I was like a half marathon every month. Uh, and now I'm like two or three times a week. Three miles maybe. Yeah. It's pretty casual, but I still, I really like it. And I have never once felt worse afterwards.
Mm-hmm. Which is nice.
It's been really interesting for myself with my running journey. 'cause I used to be running all the time 'cause I was, you know. Oops. Multiple hours of athletics every day. Right? Yeah. And then running just becomes what you do to train. Mm-hmm. So like, it's one of the nice things you can keep doing, whether or not you have a team or structure or a club.
Right. And I used, for a while, I was also working with Saucony, the running company. Oh, cool. And I, I worked in the athletic companies for a long time. Yeah. Puma, Reebok. So there, there's always fitness elements. So you always had people to run with at lunch. You guys were, you do five Ks together. And that was awesome.
And then moving here I did some of the Ragnar races. Oh, cool. Yeah. And then I got injured, stopped running. Mm-hmm. And I was supposed to run a Ragnar had to pull out last minute. Yep. Or back out last minute. That sounds awful way. I worded that. Yeah. So, um, and then this past, uh, October or September, no it was November, we got invited to run the Ragnar up in San Francisco.
Oh cool. Where you run to Napa Valley.
Amazing.
And I was like, I really wanna do it. We also had started doing sober October and we played the game of layering sober October on all these fitness challenges inspired by Joe Rogan. 'cause my boyfriend is one of his huge fans and so we're like, we can do this too.
It'll be fun. I'm like, okay. A group doing it. And it was the first time during that week, it was the first time I had ran two miles. Sure. Without being in pain or stopping in so long. And when you're a competitive athlete mm-hmm.
And your
body can do what you wanted to do. Mm-hmm. It. Messes with your psyche about yourself so bad.
It's
devastating.
Yes. And so like I got to be like, I could run four miles and four miles felt good and I was getting a little faster. And this is amazing. It's like all in a matter of four weeks when it would've been like two years of like, or maybe a year of like on and off. Right. Ability to do it.
Mm-hmm. And then I got to the Ragnar and. When I ran on my legs, like I, I had to take a break at certain points, either up steep hills or Of course, yeah. Whatever happened. And it was such a mental challenge for me to practice giving myself grace. Yeah. And being like, you're not who you were. Mm-hmm. This is who you are right now.
Right. What are you gonna do about it? Yes. And being like, I don't like this, but I'm gonna do it.
It's not fun, but yes. Yeah. Uh, a hundred percent the first off. That's amazing. Do your listeners know what Ragnar is? Do they know exactly how they work? Nope. Go for it. Because you've done them. Uh, yes. I will maybe, uh, uh, have you tell them how it works, because it's
basically like a long relay race, right?
Yeah. They're usually about 200 miles and you have team of 12 and you split into two vans. So you've got six people in each van, and everybody runs three segments. Yeah. So you start at six in the morning and you all run from one to two to three all the way to 12 passing off.
Right. Who's running a slot
bracelet and then, and the van
just kind of goes with you nice and slow.
Yep.
Right? Yeah. And the van can either literally run with you sometimes, sometimes you can't. 'cause you're off on a trail and they'll meet you at the checkpoint. Right. And you just do this for like 36 hours until you get to the end place. Incredible.
So
the SoCal one runs from Huntington Beach to San Diego.
Mm-hmm. And then the San Francisco one goes from San Francisco to Napa. Amazing. So people get to run across the Golden Gate Bridge and you're running through vineyards, like that's actually a really amazing one. Yeah. So ever, you don't need to be fast to do it right, because you could run. I think three miles or two and a half is like the shortest distance and the longest is 13.
Right. And you kind of pick your leg based on your ability. And there's some people who are insane and they run ultras. Mm-hmm. Where there's six people that run the whole thing. Mm-hmm. And actually, Jesse, my boyfriend, and a bunch of people who ran Napa with, they're gonna do that in April. Oh, good God. Or the SoCal one.
So you, everyone's gonna run over a marathon. Yeah. If not two marathons. Utterly insane. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
The, the 50 Ks are insane. Yeah. It's insane. Yeah. I'm proud of them, but that's insane. Yeah.
So they're taking this fun race and they're making it more competitive because they can. Mm-hmm. And. Yeah. So, so Ragnar is amazing.
'cause usually running is not a team sport. Right. And you're a second a van for 36 hours with these people and you're stinky and gross and you just keep running.
Yeah. You
run at night, you've got a headlamp. Mm-hmm. You run during the heat, like it doesn't matter. You just keep going. Right. And it's amazing to have the team support and all the other people, all the other teams are also very supportive.
Yeah. Just in incred, I think, uh, especially as a runner mm-hmm. The amount of metaphors that you can create for it. 'cause it really is just like, take it one step at a time. You will reach your destination. Yes. Uh, and then different than on a treadmill. Like you can see, like, I started there and I'm not there anymore.
Yeah. I have moved to this location, which means progress. Uh, and it just, it helps. It's, uh, so great. What, uh, for Jordan, were you gonna say something? Did we interrupt you? Sorry.
I was gonna make a joke and be like, my first part of training would be to make sure I could stay up for 36 hours. Oh
yeah.
That's my first part of training.
It's gotta be. Yeah. Everybody's gotta be a little delusional at the Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. After you've run your second, um, like we all, we, I've always been in van two right. Which means that we don't start running until noon, which means if you're runner 12, which I was in this last race, right. I didn't run until four 30 that day.
Yeah. So I had a whole day sitting in a van, which, you know, when you're running and you just stretch mm-hmm. You're stuck in a van that you can't move. So all your muscles are cramping up and you're right. You're not warm. Mm-hmm. So you, we did all that and then we went and all slept in a hotel room for like three hours and then traded our hotel room to the next team.
Yeah. So you're running in the middle of the night, it's so dark, crazy, crazy. You start losing your mind uhhuh, you get back in the van and you're like, wait, where am I? Where's my shoe? Right. Right. Like, I dunno what's happening. Yeah. So you do lose your mind, like at the, when you're done, there's a long.
You're very quiet in the van because no one has anything to say. Yep. All your energy is going into moving your legs. Right. And not getting lost on the trail. That's,
yeah. The, I mean, of course for, for non-runners, I'm like, you bozos, what are you doing? That's nuts. Yeah. But the, the feeling that you get of like what a team can do.
Yeah. Like what you can accomplish when somebody's supporting you is, I haven't done it,
but just hearing about it,
I'm like, oh, that's
nice.
I
like that. No, it's so, and the last one that we did had three generations. They had, um, mother, son, and grandson. Oh, wow. Running. Yeah. So it really is a race that. There are so many non-runners mm-hmm.
That do that race. Mm-hmm. Because if you can run three miles Right. And you can run three miles on a Friday and run three miles on a Saturday, you can do it. 'cause you're really just doing some random run in the middle. Right. Right. In the middle of the night you decide to wake up and go. Right. Just give somebody else a break.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it doesn't take a lot of endurance or stamina. And many people have, like there were people that I was walking faster than they were running. Yeah. And they're fine with that. That's fine. That's okay. Everything's okay.
Yeah. Yeah. You're helping us get there. Mm-hmm. You were part of it.
That's what I was telling myself. Uh, I, Jordan and I played, uh, bar trivia the other night. I contributed very little. But you like make yourself feel good that you're just like, but you wouldn't have got this one question Right. Without me, but it does. Yeah. Like, yeah. But we needed you for that one question.
Yes. So, uh, and then same with running, like yeah. You may feel like you didn't contribute a ton, but we couldn't have done it without you. So.
Well, and there's the, um. I've both participated in and also coached some of the programs at Landmark. And one of the best takeaways, are you familiar with that? Yes.
Yes. I'm, and one of my favorite takeaways from it is how much of what we say in our head is a story. Mm-hmm. And the way you can judge what a story is, is if anyone else would see it differently. Right. Then it's not real. You made it up. Look at that. Because it's all on that sliding scale, right? Mm-hmm. So did I contribute scale?
Did am I good enough? Scale? Do you love me? Scale? Isn't that crazy? The only thing that you can say is true is like we'd all take a tape measure and we'd all get our heights. Right? Right. Or the weight would end up being the same. Yeah. Or the square footage in this room, we can all measure it the same way.
Right. But anything that's not, that is complete nonsense. Yeah. And the magic of like all of it is. You get to move your marker on the scale. Right? Like, did I contribute? Yes, I did. I did. I did. No one would've won. We would've on go. No one would've gotten free beers if I wasn't there. Yeah. It's, thank you.
See, yeah.
It was all 'cause of you.
Yeah.
Right. But it is such a, especially that story thing, it's so interesting how the same stories will play over and over and over again. Mm-hmm. And your little mind just like running the same like VHS tape that you had in high school, and you're like, there's so many other options.
They're streaming now. Choose a new story. Yes. Because you can, uh, and it, that does help a lot of like, what else could this mean? Mm-hmm. And then, yeah.
Well, I think it's so great when you start getting the self-awareness of what are the things that I realized I'm saying to myself. Mm-hmm. And you can like, make a little mental flag in your head, like, oh, I said it again.
Yep. I'm gonna say something else. Mm-hmm. So like who, it's almost like you end up creating like the angel and the devil right in your head of like. You don't look so great today. Yeah. And then the angel gets to be like, excuse me, Uhuh. Nope. Have you seen this? Yeah. Thank you. Are you looking the same here?
I'm looking at,
thank you. Thank you very much. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it is. But of all these things, it's so easy to say. It's challenging to do, but if you surround yourself with, with good people like your team, uh, they're quick to be like, new story, please. And that helps. Yeah. Yeah.
No, I even caught myself apologizing for how slow I was running and like, and that's, it's funny, right?
'cause again, it's a scale, right? I'm running fast. Even when I had to stop to walk mm-hmm.
I was
still getting it done faster than half the group was getting it done. Exactly. But my scale is like, you should be under eight minutes. Yeah. Whatcha are you doing Like a crazy person? Yeah. And they, I would get in the van and under eight minutes is a lot.
That's fast. That's very fast. Yeah. It's, it's like, yes. But it, my, I would get in the van and my team would be like, stop it. We're not even gonna listen to it. Yeah. Shut up. Yep. Here's water. Bye. You're doing great.
You're
doing great. And I was like, thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you. For every once in a while, we all need someone who will just smack us.
It's fine. Mm-hmm.
Um,
but to go all
the way back to you saying how difficult it is, like once you're at your peak mm-hmm. You have to take a break because of an injury. Yeah. And then you come back and you are not at the level nothing is harder. Mm-hmm. Because everyone ends in disappointment. You're just like, well, it's not what I used to be able to do.
Yeah. And it's so hard to just grace, grace, grace, grace, grace. Mm-hmm. But it's a good thing to practice to come into it. Uh, also a sub eight is so fast. You should be so proud of yourself. Yeah. No,
it's, it's, um, I don't think I can get there
again, but same. No, no, no. I, uh, I've got my one victory from my one half marathon and, uh, just go and tell people that time and ask them not to make me do it again.
Yeah. 'cause I can't. But it was nice that I
did it at one point. Sounds good. And I'm sure if I was dedicated and I'm like, that's the only goal I have. Sure. Then yeah, of course we could make it happen. Like there are people who are. So, um, mature mm-hmm. In their age mm-hmm. That are running amazing races Oh yeah.
And doing great. And kicking everyone's butt. Yeah. But you just choose that, that's what you want to dedicate your time to. Right. 'cause it just, it occurs to me that it takes more time to attain a physical athletical. Mm-hmm. The older you get then like, all the other fun things we could be doing, of course.
Like making podcasts. Thank you. Exactly.
S and the tending to injuries thing is so crucial. Mm-hmm. Because especially mine's a, mine's a hit flexor thing. Me too. I gotta, I got a, got a little hitch. Yep. Yeah. That'll get you, you like to get sticky and bring your SOAs in there. Mm-hmm. Yep. Precisely. So, uh, so I think, yeah, if you've got the money and the time to do mm-hmm.
All of the rolling out and the physical therapy and the stretching, then great. But otherwise, if you don't, then we're gonna have to minimize the mileage. Mm-hmm. Because I can't, uh, I can't give myself a new tire every time. Yeah. It's just hard. Yeah.
Well, and that's the thing, like when I first started, um, in college playing athletics, we would, we had a trainer.
Mm-hmm.
And I mean, we're college athletes so you're working out all the time. Right. It never stopped. Mm-hmm. Like we would get bored and be like, let's just go back to the gym. Like it's that or like, cause trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And we didn't wanna study 'cause nothing no frowned upon. Right. So you would, we just spent so much time being active.
Right. And like all the athletes are also playing all the intramural sports. Like we couldn't sit still. Mm-hmm. And what I know now versus what I knew then, and I know like the trainers were lovely, but they also gave only the advice they knew. Mm-hmm. And 20 years ago. Like it wasn't the same advice. Right.
And the, I ha I just now have finally figured out how to deal with my IT van and hip flexor. Yeah. In the past five years. That's so crazy. Is it on your left side? I both are. Okay. Jerks. Gotcha.
Yeah.
That and then my, IT vans, like they all group in together Yep. To be butthead. Yeah. Um, thank, you know, thanks mom and dad for these wide hips.
Right. Um, but it's, it's like this, um. I wish I knew then how to take care of my body better. Right. Because I wouldn't have had some of the injury roadblocks that kept showing up. Like it's always been the same injury, right? It's not like, oh, it's my hip flexor and then I broke my arm. Like no. Right. It's
always a hip
flexor.
It's always legs and it's always related to that. Like if it's not my hip flexor, it's the knee 'cause it's getting pulled on. And
Yep.
We, um, recently recorded a podcast with Brie Osa, who's a mobility specialist. She has Cool. Um, she's a yoga certified and also a personal trainer and she's a dancer. Oh, cool.
And she's taught me so much about how to better take care of my body mm-hmm. Than anyone who was like allegedly certified at the time to do it. Right. And it's heartbreaking how there's still so much of the old knowledge. That that's out there.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And to give these coaches minimal credit 'cause they educate yourself, help me not hurt, but when things don't hurt.
Yeah. Because when I was in New York, I was at Equinox, they had all the facilities to stretch and roll out, but nothing hurt. Yeah. So I didn't, yeah. So I would uh, run my, the Loop Central Park at six miles, uh, and then I would wad myself up and sit in front of the TVs, which without stretching at all. Yeah.
And I knew better, but there weren't any symptoms yet. So
Yeah,
it is, it is a little bit like, yeah, would've been great, but would I have used it? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Maybe.
Well, there, there's the Paul Checkbook, uh, eat, move and be healthy. Right. And we bought the old version off of Amazon. 'cause I don't think they keep printing it, but it's a textbook that asks you all these questions about.
You take quizzes, excuse me. And it goes through, you're sleeping and you're eating and how you eat and why. Right. Do you have parasites or not? It's basically getting your entire body as an ecosystem better.
Cool.
And his whole thing is like, you do not need to sweat every day if you don't want to, but you have to stretch.
Wow. And you have to keep your mobility right? Like if you keep your mobility, it's like, I remember growing up and seeing, you know, the guys, the old guys doing the Tai Chi mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In the park. You're like, what are those weird guys doing? Are we doing
Yeah.
Uh, they're actually way smarter than we all were because so much smarter, they're maintaining their mobility and their range of motion, and Yeah.
To your point, like if I stretch the way I'm supposed to mm-hmm. It's two hours. Yep. A day. Yeah. Commitment. Yeah. And I haven't even worked out yet. That's just stretching,
right? Yes, exactly. I have a YouTube video that's uh, just for hips. Mm-hmm. 18 minutes. And I get to it every other week. Yeah. 18 minutes I cannot find.
Mm-hmm. Insane. I know we've
taken the new practice of just leaving the yoga mat. Out in front of the tv. Yeah. Jesse's been doing it. I'm just not putting it away. Right. Because if it's there, you're like, oh, I can do a little stretch while we're watching this commercial. It's true. Yeah. And it does help.
Yeah. And the two of us are nerding out, rolling out and watching tv. Like if someone walked in right now, they'd be like, what are you guys, what are you doing? Yeah. I love it
though.
I love it though. Yeah, that's good. You have to. Yeah. So as we're wrapping up. What messages would you like women out there to know?
Oh boy. Great. Um, do you, do you, do you, do you, do you, I, because I definitely, especially with social media, it's great to keep up with people. It is bad to compare. Yes. So I think just whatever feels like super, super authentic. That is what you were supposed to do. You were on the right track. Mm-hmm. And don't look to anybody else.
If you're doing you great, there's gonna be a ton of rejection around it, but it'll be less rejection than if you're faking it. Mm-hmm. So just do you, and then that go full out thing. Yeah. Um, is, uh, those are lessons that I need to learn. Yeah. But the only success I have ever had is when I did those two things.
So. Mm-hmm. It works.
Thank you so much for being a Yes to the powerful his podcast. Thank you for accepting imitation indirectly through Jordan. Yes. Um, she got there faster than I could, so. Awesome. Yay. And, um, yeah, I look forward to being able to support you and listen to your podcast more and just tell people how awesome you are.
So I can't wait for this episode to come out. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome.
Renee is one of my new favorite human beings. She's kind, generous, wise, funny, and exceptionally humble. She's a powerful lady who has done huge things and continues to be vulnerable and honest about what it looks like to keep creating and discovering what's next in life. Her wisdom into living boldly and all out, we all need to hear more often.
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